“To be convinced in our hearts”, said Luther, “that we have forgiveness of sins and peace with God by grace alone is the hardest thing” because “the sin underneath all sins is the lie that we cannot trust the love and grace of Jesus and that we must take matters into our own hands.”
Amen Zeke!
First there is the rest of faith that Christ has paid it all! I must trust in Him completely for my salvation and redemption.
Then comes the out working of salvation as God works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
The relationship we have with Him cause us to desire to please Him in all things. We want to obey Him and be holy as He is Holy.
He chastises all those He loves and receives unto Himself.
This is a great reminder that GOD is faithful to what HE says to us. We can fully trust that HE will do all that HE says HE will do. HE will carry us through to eternity "IF" we remain in HIM. The key is "abiding in HIM," and the faith to do so comes not by our own strength or flesh but by putting complete trust in HIM, obeying HIM and daily dying to self. We must be willing to submit our lives unto HIM as LORD, we must take up our cross and follow HIM, we must remain in HIM. These commands are given to us by HIM and in love we respond willingly to HIM by seeking to be Holy as HE is Holy. What is truly amazing is that HE gives us all that we need to accomplish this journey. HE alone is our source of life and strength. HIS love is true and faithful with out end! I pray each of us will remain in HIM that we will "abide in HIM" always!
God bless
mj
Excellent post MJ!
I truly enjoyed reading it and how well written!
God Bless you sister!!
QUOTE:
"This is a great reminder that GOD is faithful to what HE says to us. We can fully trust that HE will do all that HE says HE will do. HE will carry us through to eternity "IF" we remain in HIM. The key is "abiding in HIM," and the faith to do so comes not by our own strength or flesh but by putting complete trust in HIM, obeying HIM and daily dying to self. We must be willing to submit our lives unto HIM as LORD, we must take up our cross and follow HIM, we must remain in HIM. These commands are given to us by HIM and in love we respond willingly to HIM by seeking to be Holy as HE is Holy. What is truly amazing is that HE gives us all that we need to accomplish this journey. HE alone is our source of life and strength. HIS love is true and faithful with out end! I pray each of us will remain in HIM that we will "abide in HIM" always!"
____________________________________________________________
Amen!
This is an ongoing thing, not a one time event where one can then sit back, relax and do nothing. Walking with the LORD Jesus is an everyday, constant lifestyle. We do not choose to spend some moments indulging in sin and the rest walking with him. This mindset will rob you of your peace and joy. Every time. This is why folks experience drought in their spiritual life.
God bless.
The acid test of understanding and believing the heart of the original post is that if you do not get the opportunity to spend hours in prayer everyday, but have mere minutes with the Lord and that its ok.This is an ongoing thing, not a one time event where one can then sit back, relax and do nothing. Walking with the LORD Jesus is an everyday, constant lifestyle.
Will the Lord still bless me and my children everyday if I don't pray for them. That if I don't fast and pray will Jesus still be happy with me, that if I don't want to go to the prayer meeting that its ok.
I'm not talking here about major sin issues that those in the 'hyper-grace' mindset seem to keep, so lets just toss that notion on the garbage heap.
Its just life is busy and the three children need breakfasts made and lunches, then you go to go and work a full day, dealing with 2 hour gridlocked traffic. And then its baseball practice and ballet for dear Stephaney and then its super and homework and then its....Bed! And you haven't spent a meaningful moment with the Lord.
Could your theology of Gods grace cope with that without feeling condemned and guilty because 'you haven't spent time with the Lord'?
Its the mindset that if you don't walk with the Lord everyday as a constant lifestyle which causes many to be robbed of peace and joy.
This is the testimony of many in the body of Christ, they cannot measure up but they believe on Jesus and Jesus would say to them, I love you! No questions asked, no demands, no conditions, just grace!
“To be convinced in our hearts that we have forgiveness of sins and peace with God by grace alone is the hardest thing” because “the sin underneath all sins is the lie that we cannot trust the love and grace of Jesus and that we must take matters into our own hands.” Martin Luther
Nice try Zeke but unless God Himself makes it clear men will always try to get to heaven by means of a stick against their own backs. Such is the heart of vanity and such is weak faith.
Many people wonder why I have such a conviction that the gift of eternal life is eternal and without repentance on God's part. I tell them it is because it pleased the Father to make such a comprehension my own. What I have never said in detail before is how this happened.
I often read the example of Peter given when he said he would even die for Christ though others would turn away. I feel such a sadness when I read the comments which attribute to Peter a kind of backsliding as though Peter boasted in his flesh with a type of arrogance when he spoke the words he spoke to the Lord. The reason for this is as follows.
When I first believed in the Father and Christ I was in a most wretched and destructive mind. Then in an instant I was saved. After a few days of reflecting and fellowshipping with the Father one evening I came into an understanding that there was nothing more the Father could give me, that He had given me everything which brought me to eternal life in Christ. In a moment of overwhelming gratitude I worshipped the Father and found myself issuing the following words.
"Father I know that you have given me everything and that I have life. There is nothing more that you can give me. Ask Father what you desire! Even my life is nothing I will give it!"
In an instant I heard the words "will you do this for me Andrew?"
I saw myself being walked down a path leading to a gallows. Then up the steps and then to death by hanging. I became afraid, so real was the vision and struggled with the meaning of it. Then after a few moments I said "Father if you are there with me Lord. I will do it. I cannot do it on my own"
This is the meaning of eternal salvation. We cannot do it on our own. Yet preceding its outworking is its substance. It is the conviction of eternal security in the Father by Christ His Son. Nothing else is true no matter how we may press others to despise those who we say have fallen away. What utter foolishness to claim that Peter fell away. He did not fall away. He was scattered according to the Lord's own words and prophecy. Everything is in the Father's hand and He does not change His mind.
Peter was given a choice to turn away before hand when it was truly in his power to turn away. Yet Peter said "Lord to Whom shall we turn. For you have the words of life".
What are you talking about?Nice try Zeke
ZekeO wroteThis is the testimony of many in the body of Christ, they cannot measure up but they believe on Jesus and Jesus would say to them, I love you! No questions asked, no demands, no conditions, just grace!
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Oh dear brother as I read what you wrote all I could think about is by whose strength are you doing all those things? Is it in your own or are you trusting in HIM. Does JESUS want "dear Stephaney" in ballet if it hinders you or her from spending time with JESUS? Can JESUS not be there among you when baseball practice goes on? In those two hours of grid lock traffic what about just praying, talking to HIM and singing your praises to HIM? Is our relationship with HIM such a burden that we can only pull HIM off the shelf when we find we have the time? The command is clear "IF" you love ME then obey ME. This is not my standard this is HIS and by HIS strength HE can accomplish that life in you.
I do not say these things to you to condemn you but to prayerfully give you things to consider. I often seek HIM myself on these very topics. Do you or I, or any of us, believe that our day with all of today's modern conveniences is more hectic and more busy then Paul's day was??? And yet Paul said it is no longer I that live but CHRIST! I only ask this because it is so easy to allow the cares of this world to steal our time and attention from HIM!! JESUS wants our whole hearts not one divided. "IF" you will let HIM, "IF" you will truly trust HIM, HE will show you how to walk with HIM and do all the things HE has for you and you will be amazed at how much time that you have with HIM.
You asked :Could your theology of Gods grace cope with that without feeling condemned and guilty because 'you haven't spent time with the Lord'?
my answer to you is simple its not my theology that draws me into those moments with HIM. Its JESUS HIMSELF that does. I come to HIM in prayer because I long to sit at HIS feet and spend time with HIM. Its not about schedules its about knowing HIM and submitting unto HIM because HE is LORD of my life. I do so because I want to spend time with HIM. JESUS isn't an after thought at the end of my day...HE is my day :)
God bless you
maryjane
Hi ZekeO,
What information I have of Luther, and his writtings cause me to scratch my head like none other.
Because his early writings seem inlightened, they are full of so much deep insight.
but yet I have one of his last writings "The Jews and Their Lies"
I have quotes of the things he said about the Anabaptist and others, I have the bondage of the will, of which the writting and slandering and attack styl used on Desiderius Erasmus, I believe would not be allowed one day on SI
from my research as of now, it appears that Luther started out strong but I am not convinced that he finished well. I am open to correction on that perspective but it would take a great deal of explaining to convince me otherwise.
Do you mind explaining the relationship between the shelf syndrome and his command, because I'm battling to make a connection?Is our relationship with HIM such a burden that we can only pull HIM off the shelf when we find we have the time? The command is clear "IF" you love ME then obey ME.
I think you may well be right, it just goes to show we know in part.from my research as of now, it appears that Luther started out strong but I am not convinced that he finished well.
As much as I am thankful for his contribution in restoring the doctrine of Justification some of his other things were not on point so to speak.
The acid test of understanding and believing the heart of the original post is that if you do not get the opportunity to spend hours in prayer everyday, but have mere minutes with the Lord and that its ok. ZekeO
It turns out that my comment "nice try" was being written as your above comment about the acid test was being written. If you had posted that before I started to write my last post I would have still said "nice try".
Its a way of saying "you have tried nicely to make a point". I would have hoped the comments are self explanatory. Unfortunately nothing seems self explanatory on the internet.
Is that not the gospel.my answer to you is simple its not my theology that draws me into those moments with HIM. Its JESUS HIMSELF that does
I can attest to these things of which you speak being truth in my own life.
The acid test of understanding and believing the heart of the original post is that if you do not get the opportunity to spend hours in prayer everyday, but have mere minutes with the Lord and that its ok. ZekeO
I would have hoped the comments are self explanatory. Unfortunately nothing seems self explanatory on the internet.
I did think it strange, because you were basically agreeing with me.
by ZekeO on 2013/6/25 4:14:20
Is that not the gospel.my answer to you is simple its not my theology that draws me into those moments with HIM. Its JESUS HIMSELF that does
I can attest to these things of which you speak being truth in my own life.
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Wonderful brother so glad to hear. Is HE not good to give us those moments through out our days to be with HIM. As for my shelf comment it was in response to what you seem to be saying in your earlier post about life being so busy. JESUS wants our whole heart, and lives every moment of every day. We are called to submit unto HIM. You seem to imply with your post that there are times when life just gets to busy for you to be with JESUS and I simple ask you to consider how can that truly be if HE is LORD of our life. The commend is to love and obey HIM so what part of your life or my life do we still govern over if HE is truly LORD and we are submitting unto HIM??
God bless
mj
Thats the point, does our theology allow for other believers to live that way without feeling the need to correct just to love them because Christ Loves them?You seem to imply with your post that there are times when life just gets to busy for you to be with JESUS and I simple ask you to consider how can that truly be if HE is LORD of our life.
There are multitudes of believers who have given up on the Christian faith because its to much.
the grace of God teaches us, It teaches people to maybe reconsider taking a job closer to home and not have to spend so much time away from home.
Its the grace of God which teaches that maybe it would be better to restructure your life give more room to Gods things.
Oaks of righteousness do not grow in one day.
Most of us (if not all) have to be Martha's first before we understand what being Mary is all about.
It's not about us performing, but resting at His feet and listening to and watching Him. "In His light we see light".
I think you are right.Most of us (if not all) have to be Martha's first before we understand what being Mary is all about.It's not about us performing, but resting at His feet and listening to and watching Him. "In His light we see light".
I know the man isn't highly regarded on this forum but what turned it around for me was reading Joseph Prince's book Unmerited favour in December of 2011.
The realisation that God Loves me, nothing more, nothing less, transformed my life. That I am the disciple whom Jesus Loves, floored me. All because he loves me!!!
You know these things, yah, yah, God loves you, but seriously, when I just stopped and let the revelation of Gods love touch my life that Jesus again became so wonderful.
I can only share with you what the WORD tells us, and that is simply this, if we love HIM, if we are truly HIS then we will obey HIM as LORD of our lives. Its not my standard or theology its HIS WORDS...
All I know is that its a daily act of living, submitting, obeying and loving the LORD JESUS and that HE sees us through. It is very easy to take on the cares of the world and then say GOD will understand...how easy it is for us to turn from HIM because we are so busy with life that one hour goes by and we do not think of HIM. And then how much more easy it is two spend the day, week, month, or lifetime and JESUS is but an after thought to some....The enemy wants us to be busy about the world so we do not think on JESUS KINGDOM.
JESUS alone saves us, HE gives and by HIS strength we receive. HE acts and we react, its all about daily relationship with HIM as LORD of our lives. That is all I have to share or can say on the matter.
ZskeO wrote:Oaks of righteousness do not grow in one day.
You are right they grow over a life time of living, submitting and daily walking with HIM who is the source of all life :)
God bless brother
mj
When immature believers are faced with big or perplexing problems they either became impatient and go ahead before God like Sarah who persuaded Abraham to take Hagar to obtain children by her (gen 16), or they just run away like Jonah.
And as the accounts went, their actions resulted into big disasters.
The Lord God has given as amazing promises about salvation and eternal life but when things are not in accordance to our expectations, understanding, or biases we commit the same errors that they made. We act and judge ahead of God or just withdraw and hibernate in bitterness and defeat.
But God's timing is always sufficient and perfect, a thousand years for us mortals may as well be just a wink of an eye for Him. Whatever plans and promises He has for each of one us, He will surely make it come to pass.
Through the sacrifices of our Lord and saviour, we are now
sons and daughters to the Almighty. The veil that separates
us before God our Father is already gone as we are given the privilege to cry 'Abba'_ in our weakness, when we are torn, when we are confused, when we had failed and fallen.
Jesus is so right on..."if we really love Him, we will obey Him". Those are the good works that we are ordained to walk in.
Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
What do you mean 'obey him', obey him in what, are there specific commands that he has in general or are they personal things?Jesus is so right on..."if we really love Him, we will obey Him". Those are the good works that we are ordained to walk in.
Thank you MaryJane for pointing out the fact that the Lord infuses every part of our day.
The notion that we are too busy or that the demands of life somehow drown out the vitality of our walk with Jesus is a very dangerous one and exactly represents the dangers of hyper grace to the walk of the saint with His Lord. Now, please do not confuse this with salvation.
If we presume upon our walk with the Lord, if we lie back and take, as , I would argue almost every human being would take, the path of least resistance, then we are in great danger of drifting away from the Lord. Could this end up in one walking away from God? Yes, I do believe that is a real danger. Even the sheep know that they have to stay close to the shephard. We know that the enemy picks of the straggler.
If your life is too busy to commune with God, if your thoughts are consumed with the problems of the day, the answer is not to fall back upon a safety net of " it does not really matter, it's all already done." The answer is to change your life in such a manner that you seek first the Kingdom of God in all that you do and in every part of your life.
The answer is to diligently seek the Lord, for He is a rewarder of such. The answer is to drop all activities that are not required if they are keeping you from a vital and intimate relationship with the Lord. This is what separates us from the world. The world is consumed by matters that have no eternal value. And although they pursue their pleasures and their careers and make every effort to give their kids the American dream, they find no happiness or satisfaction in this, nor can they. For it is only a vital relationship with Jesus, daily, walking and talking and communing and drawing closer that truly brings peace, the peace the world so desires but can never have outside of Jesus.
The notion that we can draw peace and beauty and holiness from only relying upon an abstract truth is a very subtle lie from the enemy of our souls who ever seeks to separate us from the vine. It is by abiding, and continuing to abide that we live and breathe and have our being. If your job is too much and drowns out the Lord because of the pressures of it, quit your job. If your children's activities take up so much of your time that you cannot fellowship with God or other believers, quit their activities. Whatever hinders your walk with the Lord, whatever hinders you from coming into His presence,make that hinderance go away and choose life, the abundant life that comes only through an intimate relationship with Jesus and that walked out every day. You will be a better mother or father for it, a better husband or wife for it.............bro Frank
Yes they are on the same level as these guys:The notion that we are too busy or that the demands of life somehow drown out the vitality of our walk with Jesus is a very dangerous one and exactly represents the dangers of hyper grace to the walk of the saint with His Lord.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Licentious and Legalism will have the same outcome.
I find it amusing that the people who post on here never ever complain about the dangers of legalism. Probably because its so much harder to spot.
Hyper-grace = Bad, Legalism = no comment!
What do you mean 'obey him', obey him in what, are there specific commands that he has in general or are they personal things?
Zeke, I think you know this:
All those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.
Is your relationship with God "general" or "personal"? If general, then you have not been born of the Spirit.
If you are led by the Spirit of God then His voice to you is personal.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
We follow Him because we hear His voice (His still small voice in our spirit).
We are to hearken to the voice of His words.
Job_34:16 If now thou hast understanding, hear this: hearken to the voice of my words.
Put another way, "If you love me, you will hearken unto my voice".
Hi bro Zeke. It is helpful when quoting, if you name who you are quoting. In your last post you quoted me, then another quote of a Scripture I did not give, putting these two quotes together gives a false impression. As to the point of not addressing legalism, boy, you must have missed much on this forum. I would say that there has been thousands of occasions where legalism has been vigorously discussed..............bro Frank
What impression is that?putting these two quotes together gives a false impression.Appolus
mmm...My feeling is is that its so subtle to so many that you wouldn't be able to address it even if you wanted to. Its actually worse than outright sinning, Legalists actually think they doing God a favour, and like to speak on his behalf.As to the point of not addressing legalism, boy, you must have missed much on this forum.Appolus
I know what I mean, its what the poster means by what they say is what I'm trying to establish.I think you know this:just-in
Your post goes to show how subjective Obeying Jesus can be. Which is another point.
If its just a personal obedience then how then do we judge another mans relationship with God? Obviously its Fruit.
If there isn't fruit, do we then presume that that man is not in relationship with Jesus?
What I'm trying to do here is challenge some presuppositions that we may have towards Gods church.
Everything is not just as it seems, there is allot going on in the background of peoples lives that we know little about. There is also no 'one-size-fits-all' template when it comes to Jesus and how he deals with individuals.
There are some things in the church which are non-negotiable, what do you think they are?
The notion that we can draw peace and beauty and holiness from only relying upon an abstract truth is a very subtle lie from the enemy of our souls who ever seeks to separate us from the vine. apollos
Do you really believe that what I personally shared earlier apollos is an abstract truth? Please don't feel any need to answer me. I have grown accustomed to being ignored and weary of the self placating flattery which is dressed up as spirituality. I tell you straight forwardly Frank it is offensive to keep using such a dry and seeming niceness to disguise what cannot be other than an insult to others. Speaking personally what I share on this site I do so for the sake of those who desire to comprehend such difficult questions, and not for my own sake. I especially do so in reference to personal realities in my own walk precisely to give some flesh to avoid so-called abstract truths. It just so happens that this truth was a most precious understanding I received by the hand of God and not a man, which caused me to lay down my life in complete gratitude of comprehending that the Father had given me a thief and a dog the ability to know that in Christ I had been given everything pertaining to eternal life. Not some abstract reality but the revelation of the Father.
It is one thing to have an opinion and even to be sincere in it. But I for one am not fooled by the substance of what is being said. Anymore than you were fooled when I said that some brethren prefer to beat their own back with a rod etc.
The things Zeke shared were measures of his personal life and reflected a state which is not in any way uncommon to many people. Explain how the direct responses to his post in any way edified him or encouraged him? They did not and thats a fact.
Zeke,
Appolus is right. Lots of discussions about legalism.
Anyway, only God knows the thoughts and intents and struggles of every heart. He knows who puts on a good show and yet are struggling terribly when they are alone.
Tell me if you would: What does outward fruit look like to you?
I personally don't think a lot of people know what real fruit looks like because they don't what the real Jesus looks like.
Many today would accuse Jesus of being an angry, self-righteous, law-breaking, unmerciful and unforgiving man.
But, I will say this, if someone is not displaying fruit (according to however they define fruit), it may be that the poor soul is going through a terrible Job experience. They may even be backslidden, yet inwardly hating their life and wanting to get back to God. God knows all these things and we know very little. That is why God wants us to walk in love and if we have been shown mercy (and we have) we are to show mercy. If someone is not "displaying fruit" that is a call to pray for that person and love them and show mercy. Most people here know that.
Of course there are a few who believe God is a respecter of persons, who hates some and loves others and so they justify that they can be the same way.
I'm just glad that I don't have that burden on me of having to judge people. I am just asked to walk in love and be faithful to Jesus.
I don't think that bro Frank has done nothing more than share his own experiences of his walk.
I see a lot of ideas on the forums and if only people who want to teach the grace message had the answer for verses which teach the message of taking the hard road to Christ then we wouldn't be having these misunderstandings.
The Bible that teaches us that we are justified through faith is the one that also teaches that we are justified through works. James 2v24
The Christian life is a journey and eventually God will demand our obedience through works. We will either get offended and proceed no further into God or we will take the right path.
The highway of holiness will never come through faith alone it is our works of obedience which will put us on that road.
Hi brother Andrew,
My comments were not addressed to you. Given that fact, not sure how to respond to the rest of your post. So I will not. God bless you Andrew. May the Lord of peace rule and reign in your heart............ bro Frank
Bro David writes.........
"I see a lot of ideas on the forums and if only people who want to teach the grace message had the answer for verses which teach the message of taking the hard road to Christ then we wouldn't be having these misunderstandings."
And there it is, the balance. The heads and the tails of the same coin.
David further writes.........
"The highway of holiness will never come through faith alone it is our works of obedience which will put us on that road."
Amen brother, every spiritual giant I have ever met woul concur. Obedience to the word of God and to that small still voice leads indded into a deeper walk. This was the desire of the Apostle Paul.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Good word, David.
Matthew 11:6
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
My comments were not addressed to you. Given that fact, not sure how to respond to the rest of your post. So I will not. God bless you Andrew. May the Lord of peace rule and reign in your heart............ bro Frank
I am well aware that your comment were not addressed to me personally. I know this because you wrote the name of the sister you were addressing. However, the fact that you continue to hide behind words rather than use them for a true correction means they are completely wasted on me at least. That Frank is called plain speaking. As for my heart! It is just fine and so is my mind as well.
I see a lot of ideas on the forums and if only people who want to teach the grace message had the answer for verses which teach the message of taking the hard road to Christ then we wouldn't be having these misunderstandings.
You requoted this above statement as well and that wasn't addresses to me either. However given that I clearly read these things as you must do in order to make a prescription of why some of our comments are from the devil let me explain even more plainly why your previous comment to which I made reference earlier was wilful.
Are there any other posters in this thread or on this site who have shared that their understanding on a particular matter was not a case of reading what men have said or taught, but was a matter of direct revelation of the Father? If you can find one I'll be happy to either receive what they have shared or sincerely ask them if they may have been deceived in some way. What I won't do is to try and assert the complete opposite truth in sight of that person by claiming that the substance of revelation they have shared is from the devil. You may not comprehend this because you clearly don't have much of a fight when it comes to defending your teachings, of which there are many. But there are some believers who do know how to contend for the centrality of what they have been given and are well aware that in doing so it exposes them to condemnation.
As I said earlier I have grown accustomed to receiving no answers. The comment from davidkeel above regarding the sharing of scriptures is a case in point. That too is not directed at myself. However, I am the only person on this site who has actually offered a fuller understanding over the last twelve months of the meaning of God's grace in light of the many scriptures which are offered to refute it. Pressing the matter is called hyper-grace when the matter is simply called grace. The balance lies in the words and the explanations given. So finally, once more……as I have said I am accustomed to being ignored. If you want to make like you are living in a bubble then by all means do so. I am not so vain as to imagine that what I share is not read or not considered. It is simply ignored. That is to say Frank it is generally uncommented on. Not rocket science really just ordinary common intelligence.
Well lets lay it out, I know may saviour and I know his word. Lets sort this out because we are so close to each other but differ on some things.I see a lot of ideas on the forums and if only people who want to teach the grace message had the answer for verses which teach the message of taking the hard road to Christ. DavidKeel
Where is that written?The Christian life is a journey and eventually God will demand our obedience through works.DavidKeel
Where is that written?The highway of holiness will never come through faith alone it is our works of obedience which will put us on that road.DavidKeel
In one word Love. And it starts with him and ends with him.Tell me if you would: What does outward fruit look like to you?
There is no balance, God has lavished us with his grace and I have absolutely no responsibility to balance the grace the message. We are putting limits on the role and affect of the cross on mankind.And there it is, the balance. The heads and the tails of the same coin. Appolus
Its like we feel there must be a balance because 'you know it gives people a licence to sin', people were sinning under the law before that anyway.
We are so quick and intent on making Christianity something that we do, when its about who we are now...with no addendums.
I will say it you are mixing law and grace and if that puts me in the hyper-grace camp it matters not. I know my master and I know his word and am ready to give a reason for the hope that I have.
The highway of holiness is mentioned in the old testament and is I believe continued by Jesus in the sermon on the mount when he tells us about walking on the narrow way. It also I believe is referred to when Jesus mentions the hard road , the road that leads to life.
That narrow way is of works of obedience. Not my words the words of Jesus : Matthew 7 v 14. Do to others as you would have them do to you is the subject just preceding that verse.
It's giving up your right to be correct. Allowing others to beat you in an argument at the Lords command. Forgiving others and saying sorry even when we think we have the legitimate right to be correct. It's surrendering our lives to God.
This is maturity. It will come one day hopefully, unless we draw back to perdition and we will find that we receive no further things from Gods hand unless we obey that way he is showing us.
He is after our heart not our emotions and feelings. Not even your prayer times or songs of rejoicing in Him can be compared to that of laying down our lives for Him.
Tear your heart and not your garments is what is said in scripture.
The highway of holiness, the narrow way and the hard road all have one thing in common. It is all about losing your life.
He who loses his life will find it unto eternal life. Matthew 16v25.
Davidkeel wrote:The highway of holiness, the narrow way and the hard road all have one thing in common. It is all about losing your life.
He who loses his life will find it unto eternal life. Matthew 16v25.
______________________
Thank you for sharing these things. It is not about winning an argument or a debate, it is all about being faithful to HIM and seeking to be a servant to others. The narrow road can be a difficult journey and I believe that is why HE tells us few will take it but for those who do remain to the narrow path they see and know HE is there guiding them and that it is completely worth every step.
God bless
maryjane
Quote: "The highway of holiness will never come through faith alone it is our works of obedience which will put us on that road."
Oh me this just so wrong.. having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
Jesus is the way, he is the highway and if you truly want to live a Holy life then there is no other way.
In the apostle Paul’s commission we distinctly see that we “are sanctified by faith.” Acts 26:18
We also see that Jesus suffered on the cross “that he might sanctify [us] with his own blood.” Hebrews 13:12
This points us to the fact that we must have faith in His blood. This grace is purchased for us, and now it is for us to receive it. We also see that He has made provision in this same purchase that we may be kept sanctified.
The apostle Peter, in his testimony of the inwrought grace of God at Pentecost, speaks of this how faith, which effected in him and his brethren at Jerusalem, as well as the household of Cornelius upon the event of their induction into this glorious grace, the experience of heart purity, “and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.”
I think you are getting mixed up with works of obedience and works of the flesh. Works of the flesh as you quoted from Galatians are us trying to make an effort to make ourselves in right standing with God.
Works of obedience are being led by Gods Holy Spirit. It is following Him wherever he leads you, whenever he convicts you of doing wrong. Those works are necessary for living in constant fellowship with God.
Brothers and sisters,
I believe we all understand that our salvation was by grace through faith.
We all have some good points from scripture but sometimes we are just looking at it from different angles. Sometimes we can read what a poster has written and the way it was worded sounds like they believe in a works salvation.
Sometimes it seems like one poster doesn't believe in obeying The Lord and the list goes on.
I have come to understand that a lot of the hard sayings of Jesus was in light of Him knowing that He was going to the cross to finished the work for our redemption. Now I believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross and there is absolutely nothing we can add to it because it is complete. We are saved by His grace and he did all the work to accomplish our salvation.
Jesus said that our work was to believe on Him. Our work is not to add to our salvation or to achieve salvation but only to receive everything that He made possible for us through the cross.
We are to be doers of the Word and not hears only (deceiving ourselves).
Without faith it is impossible to please God but we must believe that God exists and that He is a rewarded of those a who diligently seek Him.
We are not to wonder around aimlessly but we are to continuously seek God and rest by faith in Him, in His finished work. We are to grow in grace and in the knowledge of The Lord Jesus Christ. His grace is teaching us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world as we look for the blessed hope of His glorious appearing.
He is our almighty Savior and He gave Himself to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify unto Himself a special treasure of people zealous for good works.
He is going to come back in the glory of His Father with the holy angels and He is going to reward everyone according to his works.
Now this is all because of His finished work on the cross for us!
Davidkeel wrote:The highway of holiness, the narrow way and the hard road all have one thing in common. It is all about losing your life. MaryJane
David also wrote:
It's giving up your right to be correct. Allowing others to beat you in an argument at the Lords command. Forgiving others and saying sorry even when we think we have the legitimate right to be correct. It's surrendering our lives to God.This is maturity. It will come one day hopefully, unless we draw back to perdition and we will find that we receive no further things from Gods hand unless we obey that way he is showing us.
He is after our heart not our emotions and feelings. Not even your prayer times or songs of rejoicing in Him can be compared to that of laying down our lives for Him.
We can skip and dance all day around the fire of mere words, but if we mean to say what is said in this paragraph then we say that believers can expect perdition, eternal destruction, the second death, the lake of fire and eternal torment because they did not…..who knows……... let those who are judges judge. If we follow them we will destroy ourselves trying, and learn to hate others in bitterness of soul. Just as countless others were so stumbled in the past by the very same gospel. This is the difficulty and no one really wants to talk about that. It requires a degree of self righteousness which makes the stomach turn. I for one reject it utterly and completely in Christ name.
There is a better way but that really does require something more than mere words of dead doctrines and repetitions. It is a way which must be true, else the whole Gospel is a lie, and in which we set aside the condemnation of countless saints simply because they do not walk as we imagine they ought to walk. To go otherwise is a ministry of condemnation. It breads pride, self righteousness and a lack of mercy. It would have men abandon even their most basis instincts to preserve their own families it is a cruel and destructive gospel of self achievement.
Unless our obedience is established on the finished work of Christ both for eternity and today we will labour in the flesh. Or else we will reject Christ altogether recognising the utter injustice of a God who sets men free from sin and death only to abandon them to eternal destruction because they had a job which was too demanding, or a child who was not obedient and laid waste to their peace, or because the pastor caused them to stumble because he hated them, or because the saints robbed and stole from them and made them stumble or because of the countless things which happen in believers lives every day which keep them from a simple walk of complete total and absolute surrender to the dictates of a vicious and cruel God who demands even the very flesh of our flesh as a living sacrifice unto Him. I believe such a God would have to be called Moloch.
I do not know that God. I have no part in that Gospel. I utterly reject that Gospel and all parts in it. Without reservation or repentance.
JESUS does want our whole hearts, JESUS does want us to lay down our lives for others, JESUS does want and expect us to follow HIM daily, submit unto HIM daily, to take up our cross daily, and love HIM daily, HE does care about every aspect and tiny part of our lives, HE does want to know us, to be known by us and to walk with us in fellowship, HE does want us to serve one another, and to come before HIM in prayer, worship and praise. HE does want to give to us and for us to receive from HIM daily. And if we should fail in any of these things HE wants us to know HE will be there to help us pick up the pieces and begin again. Its a daily journey on a narrow path with HIM as our LORD. HE wants all of these things for us and HE wants our faith and trust knowing that we do not accomplish one single thing without HIM. HE wants us to have complete and absolute faith that all that we do...we do by HIS strength and HIS power, HIS love and HIS care. This is the only gospel I know, that I a sinner was bound for hell, lost in the darkness, blind in sin and self living until JESUS called out to me and brought me to my knees showing me that there is no life apart from HIM. In HIM I trust and place all my faith, and because of HIM I long to obey and submit unto HIS will. Because of who HE is when my LORD speaks I want to have the ears to listen...
that is what the LORD in HIS mercy has shown me and for each of us I pray we keep our hearts soft, open to HIM, and love one another.
God bless
maryjane
Edit: Just to say clearly to those who have shared here in this thread, my above post is "not" a line drawn in the sand but rather the outpouring of what the LORD has placed on my heart. Just as you have felt compelled to share so I have. Be blessed in HIM today and let us love one another while we have today!
Quote: I think you are getting mixed up with works of obedience and works of the flesh. Works of the flesh as you quoted from Galatians are us trying to make an effort to make ourselves in right standing with God.
Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Gal 3:3
No the Galatians had begun in the Spirit they were in right standing with God, they made the mistake by trying to get onto trying to be Holy by keeping the law (being perfected by the flesh)
The error of the Galatians was that they were trying to be perfected by the flesh by there own strength through obedience to the law.
Quote: Works of obedience are being led by Gods Holy Spirit. It is following Him wherever he leads you, whenever he convicts you of doing wrong. Those works are necessary for living in constant fellowship with God.
It all sounds good until the last sentence; “works are necessary for living in constant fellowship with God”
Come on we enter into the Holiest by the blood of Jesus and we remain in constant fellowship with God by the blood of Christ..
HI Zeke, my reply to your comment that disagrees with my assertion that there is balance in all that God does is to say, bless you brother. Rather than talk past each other, or as others may do, grow bitter and resentful because someone dares to disagree with them, let us rather agree to disagree and each be led of the Spirit in these matters. The word tells u that He, the Holy Spirit, would lead and guide us into all truth. I believe that and I know that you do to. Let us each be earnest in our walk with the Lord and our study of His word and our following His small still voice............bro Frank
Alright, just as long as I don't see you in a lynch mob or carrying a stone we'll be ok I think.;-)Rather than talk past each other, or as others may do, grow bitter and resentful because someone dares to disagree with them, let us rather agree to disagree and each be led of the Spirit in these matters.Frank
Jesus will reject you if He does not "know you".
Now what does Him knowing us, mean?
What do you think "I don't know you", means?
What saith the whole counsel of God?
I am so glad!!! It is good when another person comes to the knowledge of God's true unconditional love for us.
Instead of judging lets all rejoice and be glad!!!
HI Zeke,
I think in the circles that I travel in, I am much more likely to be in danger of being stoned, and I mean that with stones :) Take care Zeke..............bro Frank
Thanks 'rbanks' for your post and 'jane'. Thanks apollus for your posts
Jesus will reject you if He does not "know you".Now what does Him knowing us, mean?
What do you think "I don't know you", means?
What saith the whole counsel of God?
It would be something really very exceptional to be found completely reprobate in Christ at His return. The fact that it can happen is sufficiently clear from the many scriptural warnings which we are given. Such a condition is nigh unto being burned yet it is also saved as through fire. Howsoever it comes about there are those who come into a true knowledge of Christ in that they do comprehend the childish things and receive the good news of the death and resurrection of Christ. These same ones may also comprehend that their sin has been blotted out and then receive a calling of God in their lives and the gift of eternal life. Yet they may still press on not comprehending the righteousness of Christ and the true holiness of God.
Such as these may do many good works even unto prophecy, casting out demons and the working of miracles, all things which attend to the name of Christ. Yet they may still not see the deeper reality of the cross and God's righteous demand on their whole lives and not simply their obedience in believing in His Son unto eternal life. If we do not comprehend the deeper reality of God's own character both as Father, Son and indwelling of the Holy Spirit we could, for all of our works, never truly know Christ as He is or the Father, and never realise that much of our walking is grievous to the Holy Spirit because of the flesh. If that is our portion the works will not save us, for no man can be justified by works neither of the law or of the name of Christ. If we rely on this type of justification we will be disappointed to hear those words "I never knew you".
The eternal love of the Father is unto eternal life by Christ, the obedience of the cross is unto the kingdom. First for Israel then for the Nations (Gentiles).
Of Israel
Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. “Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ “Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’ “In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out. “And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. “And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last.”
(Lk 13:24–30)
Of israel to strive through the narrow door, even Christ whom they crucified at the hands of evil men. Being first chosen yet the nations have rushed ahead of them. So that Israel is indeed chosen first yet has become last and the nations are chosen last, yet have become first.
Of the Nations
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
(Mt 7:21–23).
Eternal life is a free gift to all who ask and believe in the name of Christ Jesus. Entering the kingdom of heaven, whilst it is freely given can be lost by lawlessness. In short by walking in the flesh. For the flesh cannot be subject to the Law of God. Only the cross can settle the problem of the flesh. This is not good news it is the worst news ever. It means an end to yours self. The good news on the other hand is indeed good news and means believing the Father concerning His son unto eternal life.
If none of that makes any sense then perhaps this link will help.
https://blog.ichabod.eu/home/articles/tares-talents/
I don't understand you posting that amrkelly. Do you believe in it ?
Andrew,
You seem to amaze me with all your posts and the way you run your words all around like you have some new information about salvation than these other saints of God on SI.
I've notice that although your posts are very wordy you're not saying anything that hasn't already been said.
This is the bottom line unless a man is born again he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Most people on SI as well as you already know this.
Blessings...from brother rbanks
Is that not the question of the ages?Do you believe in it ?
This is what I know, I believe and I have come to see the love of God more and more.
The more I believe in this gospel message of gods grace the more it changes me.
I almost can testify with Paul that I wish that you were as i am besides these chains.
the wonder of God the Fathers plan, the meticulous execution of it and the shear audacity of its scope fills this heart with heart with much praise.
Its a love story so grand and a covenant so one-sided that it humbles me to tears.
I woke up the other morning thinking about the fact that i am Gods righteousness in Christ and asking why. Why? And all that came to me is that he loves, and still loves and will continue to love until that day when he hands the kingdom back to his Father and we join him at the marriage super of the lamb.
Folks the world needs to hear about this saviour, they need to hear about this father, they need to hear about his love. To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them...
What wonder, what Grace!!!
Amen Zeke!!
1 John 5:4-5 (NIV)
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
Let us not think that the word grace is magical! Like it does something wonder for us! Oh know it's not the word "grace" but the Father who is so merciful, loving, and kind enough to give us such favor when we are such scum bags unfit to even come into the presence of a twice holy God!
Yes nice words Zeke, Gods grace is truly amazing for all believers.
I hope amrkelly answers.
I don't understand you posting that amrkelly. Do you believe in it ?
Yes every word and every part of what I have said I believe and am completely and fully persuaded off.
I could make it a lot easier but where then would the leading of the Holy Spirit be?
I can tell you however that despite what rbanks has written. He will be hard pressed to find anyone on the internet and definitely on this site who is saying what I am saying. I know it because I have spend 12 hours a day for the last 14 months searching for the precise same understanding. I am not exaggerating either. I do however realise that it seems as though I have said two completely different things. I have not said any such thing. I have spoken altogether of one thing and one thing alone. The full gospel of assurance and obedience in Christ Jesus. Mr Banks is right in one sense as he must be if I am not a heretic, I haven't actually said anything new. Its simply that you will be hard pressed to find it. It is despised not by one sectarian brother but by both sectarian brothers.
What can I say. It is plain enough if anyone one were to look into it.
Quote: This is not good news it is the worst news ever. It means an end to yours self. The good news on the other hand is indeed good news and means believing the Father concerning His son unto eternal life.
What is the deepest secret of Christ life on earth, His dependence on the Father.
In the Gospel of John Christ uses these words over and over again not and nothing of Himself, Not My will, Not My words, Not My honour, Not Mine own glory, I can do nothing of Myself, I speak not of Myself, I came not of Myself, I do nothing of Myself.
Just think a moment what this means in connection with what He tells us of His life in the Father. We should have thought that with this life in Himself He would have the power of independent action as the Father has. But no. “The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do.”
Nothing of Myself is as true for Christ as it for us..
Dear ones,
....We are very dear,...to the Father,..also the body of Christ,is very dear to each of us.
Please allow me to share a Scripture, that we all know.
2Tim.3:16, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God,and is profitable for reproof ,for correction,for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS,.Verse 17,That the MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT,....throughly furnished 'unto'
>>>>> all good works." (That word 'unto',is a word of continueing on,...
Going forward > > >
And,
Jas.5:19-20, "Brethren,if any of you ( our brethren) ,do err from the truth,
and one convert him,....( help to turn one around from err),Verse 20,
Let him know that he who converteth ( turns around),THE SINNER from the error of 'his way'SHALL SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH,and shall hide a
multitude of sins.
And,
Concerning the Kingdom of God / Heaven:
* John the Baptist. came preaching "The gospel of Heaven"
* Jesus came and preached "The gospel of the ( that) Kingdom
....Everything that Jesus taught,was "the gospel"...Everything !
...The sermon on the mount,...our seeing..eyes to see,..ears,..to
hear Spiritualy,..our walk,...dead while we yet live,..His wanting to give us Life,..."My Words,that I speak unto you,They are Spirit,and They are Life"
* Paul, Peter,John,..and others continued to preach the things
pertaining to .../ ..concerning "The Kingdom of God / Heaven.
And teaching us what The King,Who is Jesus,requires of us,...."the washing of Water,by the Word of God".....( as He brings up (speaks) His Word in our spirit,He wants to cleanse us,from our way,to go into/ unto His Way )....."Led by The Spirit of God" .
* The kingdom of God is a Place IN God,( by way of the Holy Spirit ) ,where The King,...Who is Jesus rules and is Lord....or else one day could we still be decieved when we stand before Him,..and we say " Lord,Lord"and He lets us know that He was not Lord and He did not rule in our lives ?
* Grace,is also a part of His gospel,..." The gospel of His Grace"
Note: Many of you have heard me say this many times before,...I really am a repeater,...but there may be some.....?
* Grace : IS, " The Devine enflence upon the heart, and it's reflection
In the life"
( it is a mercy of God )..however,it came to do a work in us.
* " The Devine enflence upon the heart : God,..Who is the Spirit / Word,
drawing us to Himself,by His Spirit / Word,...
* " It's reflection in the life",...the doing of the / that Word
( "being not hearers only,but doers of The Word")
To share in all humbleness that which is His,
Much love in Him,
elizabeth
* Grace,is also a part of His gospel,..." The gospel of His Grace"
Quote -Elizabeth
Very good post! It is the gospel of His Grace and it is all His grace not in part but in whole! He is the God of all grace!
///Alright, just as long as I don't see you in a lynch mob or carrying a stone we'll be ok I think.;-)///
When considering so many different perspectives, on such topics
I think it is wise to look at history and research whom believed what, and whom Martyred whom.
Does grace deny our responsibility to walk in holiness before Christ? I mean practical holiness.
Bearmaster.
///Does grace deny our responsibility to walk in holiness before Christ? I mean practical holiness.///
1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Paul says:
I laboured more abundantly than they all:
yet not I,
but the grace of God which was with me.
Thank you brother,...and yes ,He is the God of all grace.
And don't we praise Him for His Grace,..because we could not have this Grace except He gives it.
Jesus was Full of God' Grace,...that Devine drawing power,...He ONLY
did the Father's will...always.
And as we recieve His Grace,and let it do it's work,He gives us more Grace,if we do not shun the Grace of God.
Grace for Grace.
1Pet.5:10, ....rbanks,..(that you mentioned), "But the God of all Grace,who hath called
us unto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus,after ye have suffered awhile,
make you perfect,establish,strengthen,settle you" .
Yes, all this Grace belongs / comes from God to us.
He draws us,by His Grace into The Kingdom of God.
* Jesus says, The gospel of the kingdom,is the gospel. He says "This gospel" of the kingdom"..(Mt.24:14,...Mt.26:13,...Mk.14:9)
Wasn't He preaching everything that has to go on in His Kingdom?
To be equipped with all the helps and council for that Kingdom.
Oh How I thank God for each of you,
In His love,
elizabeth
Amen sister!
He has promised to give us all the grace that we need to be all that he desires us to be in His Son Christ Jesus!!
Thank you dear bro.Bearmaster,for the response and the question.
And I thank Proud Papa for the blessed Word he gave in answer to your question,before I read it.
I was busy writing out something else.
And thanks to you bro.rbanks,,..as we study / learn together.
Now I think to share another Scripture, that came up into my spirit:
2 Pet.1:3,.." According to His Devine power hath given unto us all things
that pertain to Life and godliness,through the knowledge of Him that hath
called us to glory and virtue;".....and on,into....vrs..4,By which are given
unto us exceedingly great and precious promises,that by these ye might be partakers of the Devine nature,having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust," ........and it goes on to more of the out-workings of the Spirit,....fruits ....etc.
Well,be blessed,..
Lovingly,
elizabeth
Truth is a multi-faceted prism and like so many discussions on SI, one facet is focused on to the exclusion of all the others.
What is truth? Jesus says, "I am the ... and the truth".
Isn't this just so indicative of what man is like when he lays claim to something that he believes he has a right to.///Alright, just as long as I don't see you in a lynch mob or carrying a stone we'll be ok I think.;-)///When considering so many different perspectives, on such topics
I think it is wise to look at history and research whom believed what, and whom Martyred whom.
The Truth of Jesus doesn't belong to any man and neither does it need to be defended by any man. But, he uses men to fulfil his purpose, and its in the using that there is a subtle shift in mans state where he forgets that he is but a earthen vessel filled with priceless treasure. That in his delusioned sate the pot , his pot, is the only pot and that God will only use pots if they think and believe what he does.
We all see and know in part and thank God for that.
Apart from the treasure the pot has no value.
Pots that people discard are the ones that Christ is happy to dwell in "that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."
It is our complete weakness that allows the power of God to be made manifest in our lives. I'm not talking about sin, but rather humility.
God passes by those who trust in themselves and is still looking towards the humble man.
Isa_66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
True Story!!!Apart from the treasure the pot has no value.Pots that people discard are the ones that Christ is happy to dwell in "that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."
It is our complete weakness that allows the power of God to be made manifest in our lives. I'm not talking about sin, but rather humility.
God passes by those who trust in themselves and is still looking towards the humble man.
Isa_66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
by just-in on 2013/6/27 6:48:22
Apart from the treasure the pot has no value.
Pots that people discard are the ones that Christ is happy to dwell in "that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."
It is our complete weakness that allows the power of God to be made manifest in our lives. I'm not talking about sin, but rather humility.
God passes by those who trust in themselves and is still looking towards the humble man.
Isa_66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
Quote-Just-in
I like your post just-in!
Yeah, there is the fleshly, carnal, religious tendency to think we are something because of Who is in our "pot".
It gets real bad when one begins to lord over others in the name of the pot's contents.
Jesus doesn't indwell us so He can oppress people through us. That is another spirit and people often mistake their knowledge for the Bible for the indwelling presence of Jesus Christ.
RE: ///Yeah, there is the fleshly, carnal, religious tendency to think we are something because of Who is in our "pot".
It gets real bad when one begins to lord over others in the name of the pot's contents.
Jesus doesn't indwell us so He can oppress people through us. That is another spirit and people often mistake their knowledge for the Bible for the indwelling presence of Jesus Christ///
I just picked up a book from the book store last week:
"Registers of the Consistory of Geneva in the times of Calvin"
when I read your post it came to mind.
What is that book about, proudpapa? Is it full of "knowledge"?
The acid test of understanding and believing the heart of the original post is that if you do not get the opportunity to spend hours in prayer everyday, but have mere minutes with the Lord and that its ok.
------------------------------------------------------------
We are all at different stages in our walk with the Lord, but the gist of this message is one which we must not presume upon.
It could be taken two ways, and in the church there is a pervasive influence to think that it does not matter what we do as we are covered by the blood. It is much too easy to quell the work of the Holy Spirit by saying peace where there is no peace. Of course it will relieve any misgivings about how God views our lack in living out His life through ours and bring some `peace` which might be a welcome relief against the opposite extreme in the church which is legalism.
If it is indeed a remedy against legalism then it is good to consider the love of God. The important matter is the state of our hearts and only God can read into the deep crevices.
But it could be the slippery slope downwards. One must take care to hear the voice of God and to make sure it is not being drowned out because we are weary with the pricking of the goads.
It seems to me that the situation in America is not the same as in the UK as legalism is not nearly so strong here and the danger is in the other way of liberality so I am having to imagine the situation somewhat.
That small still voice we must look for, has been the way of holiness for me even though it was unbearable at times. I could not find peace at all and searched for many years for an answer, thinking that we can earn brownie points for obedience, when I was actually walking in the flesh which can never please the Lord, and had to be delivered from that whole mindset into life in the Spirit, wherein obedience is not an issue as it comes naturally to one whose old man has been destroyed and no earthly care or business can intrude on the deep constant communion with the Lord.
The Lord does love us and He loves us so much He will bring His righteous judgement on us to enable His great plans for our sanctification to fulfilment.
Kraft do you ever get convicted by the Holy Spirit at anytime in your life of doing anything wrong ? It's just that you said that obedience isn't an issue anymore.
You don't ever fail God in any way and he has to pull you up about it ?
Are there any sins in your life which you wish you are free from ?
Hello David
I am speaking generally of the entirely sanctified state, in which the sin nature has been destroyed Romans 6:6, where the struggle against sin has ceased enabling one to walk as He walked but where a fall back is possible and always will be as we can only walk by faith, not by our own abilities.
I have experienced both conditions, that is, sinning as a believer, and having a constant battle against the flesh which found it hard to trust in Christ alone, and walking in the Spirit whereby one is delivered from the flesh.
I thought that sanctification was gradual but l never made any progress and that was probably because l was such an unworthy servant who easily fell into doubts and fears. In those things l was the chief of sinners.
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