Satan’s Co-workers found in meetings of God’s saints

This is so very true and is happening all over right now. Praise God if you are in a church where your pastor prays, weeps and pleads for the fellowship. Praise God if your pastor(s)(elders) refuse to run from biblical truth and at the same time are truly being lead of the Holy Spirit of Almighty God. When your in such a true church, people will either be converted, run for the hills, or persecute you! This is what will happen and is a reality for the saints all over the world.

Jeremy
www.Time2Stand.com

Brothers – Where are the weeping pastors?

There are none to be found. Most that I see care more about making a name for themselves than for God. More concerned about recreation and leisure then spending time pressing into God. More time feasting than fasting. Many of the “pastors” I know would be more likely to laugh behind the back of someone with a broken heart then to weep with them. More concerned with not offending people and possibly disrupt their financial security than seeking to have their heart lined up with God’s heart.

Where are the true spiritual leaders of today? Where are the men of God? Where are the true prophets of God?

I see the pastors of today who live two lives. They are spiritual when in the pulpit but so very worldly when out. Where are the men of God who are the same person in the church as they are at home?

I have been in elders meetings that would make the boys locker room in a public school look like a Holy Spirit led prayer meeting. People wonder why I stepped down from that church…

I've talked to "pastors" who know all kinds of sport satistics but know God's Holy Scriptures less than my 9 year old.

They can quote someone's batting average or golf score but can't point out the most basic of Christian doctrines in the Bible. These are not shepherds of God's people. They don't know their place, they don't know there sheep, they don't know God's guiding book.

I want to pray and fellowship with people who want God more than anything else. Where are these people? Where is the remnant of true worshippers of God?

Again – where are the pastor’s that walk so close to God that their hearts break with the things that break the heart of God?

Where are the pastor’s that weep?

I agree, we need men of God who weep. But we need more than just this. Recently, I have been hearing a loud and earnest call for me who will weep. Jesus certainly did say, "Blessed are those who weep." But in this time of apostasy, we need men who "cry aloud and do not hold back, raise your voice like a trumpet and declare to my people their iniquity and to [my] house their sin!"

Men of such times stand up boldly, forsaking all else for Christ. Our times call for such men. Are you on the alert and ready to be such?

I understand that the post is mostly cut/pasting from an article.

However, I must interject. Although there is a kernel of truth in the article it is also so riddled with ungodly fear that it creates as much or more error than it could ever solve, in my humble opinion.

The entire tone and flavor would seem to do nothing but instill fear, fret, and worry to most Christians that may not be mature enough to simply judge by the fruit of a ministry and the content of its message.

Do you see the difference? The article ENCOURAGES people to reject anything supernatural based on the fact that it is supernatural. What a total perversion of truth that is.

He is JEHOVAH RAPHA - THE LORD OUR HEALER. The devil isn't my healer... JESUS is! The article encourages Christians to reject God the Father in one of the ways He has revealed Himself.

In reality satan can't heal at all as he does not posses that power. What he does in actuality is strike people with sickness and disease (There are literally piles of scripture to verify this, but I am assuming folks know that...but maybe I shouldn't assume so) after a demon strikes them if there is some advantage to be gained by the demon releasing his grip of sickness/disease he might do so for a while. That is all that happens in those cases. Satan can't heal! Jesus heals those who call on His name in faith!

This article encourages people to judge a ministry based on the fact it has supernatural happenings following it. That idea will certainly take a person INTO being deceived... not kept from it.

DO NOT judge any ministry by manifestations! A ministry is not "of GOD" or "of satan" because it has supernatural manifestations. You can NOT accurately judge on manifestations alone. Judge it by the content of the message it carries and the fruit it produces in the lives of people!

If we were to follow the perspective of this article we would also need to reject the ministries of the Apostle Paul, Peter, many of the OT prophets, Moses, even Jesus Himself! How silly! He seems unaware that although Jannes and Jambres did produce miracles in Pharaoh's court it was the fact that Moses' miracles were more powerful that established his credibility! Do you remember that Moses serpent ate theirs!

If I see demonic supernatural manifestations I intend to confront them in the name of Jesus! I will not run and hide like a coward afraid of the enemy! What a pathetic bunch of weak babies the North American church has become! Instead confront the power of the enemy with the far greater power of the risen Jesus Christ...then when the show down is won, and you have peoples attention, give a clear message of how that same Jesus that just demonstrated His power among them also conquered death, hell, and the grave. That same Jesus paid for thier sin with His own blood and offers eternal life to all who will repent and believe the Gospel. Powerful demonstrations of the supernatural arrest the attention of the world and verify the message of the Gospel (see Mark 16).

God IS NOT in the back seat of power to satan. However, the author does not appear to know that fact.

With my own eyes I have seen arms grown back, people raised from wheelchairs, deaf ears from birth instantly pop open decades later, grapefruit sized cancerous tumors, and larger, instantly melt from the body (once only minutes before they were going to have it surgically removed in the hospital. That one was my own cousin. I know what I am talking about). This is just a small smattering of examples. They are from people I know first hand, know all the back story on, and saw with my own eyes. They were healed in Jesus name in response to believing prayer offered by God's children. This article expects me to believe demons did that? That is utter non sense!

The article states

We must be on guard against Satan’s coworkers who appear to have a form of godliness, who seem impressive with a show of power but are devoid of the truth. We must be on guard against Satan as he can transform himself into an angel of light to deceive us. This calls for a need of discernment in the body of Christ especially as it relates to the end times. As we near the end of the age there will be many false prophets and teachers using supernatural miracles and healing to deceive even God’s elect.

While there is again a kernel of truth to that the author appears absolutely ignorant of the balance of scripture. Has he never read 2 Timothy in full?

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come....Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. - 2 Tim3:1,3 ESV

Again, I can list piles of scripture to verify that. However, I tend to think based on the responses I often see on the threads that the scriptural balance would not have much to do with the discussion. Far more simple emotion and defending of positions has seemed to happen on those topics.

The author appears to put people at risk of possibly rejecting God Himself by his position. It appears to me to be a quite dangerous and immature stance that the Gospel fellowship article took. I have no grievance with them at all. However, this specific article presents a view that will rob Christians of receiving from their Heavenly Father and dampen out His power demonstrated in the earth. This will result in a weakened witness of Him and anemic evangelism resulting.

It appears that the author of the article is AGAINST demonstrating Mark 16 to the world. [

these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;...they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover....And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Mark 15 ESV

He appears to give virtually all credit for power and the supernatural to satan. He appears to fear the power of satan more than the power of God to overcome demons. That is in itself dangerous!

God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil . Acts 10:38 ESV

Again, there is a kernel of truth in the article but it is so riddled with fear and error that the end result actually is more deceptive than any deception it tries to reveal.

Do you notice about he speaks at length about the power of satan and great deceptive abilities of the enemy. However, he does not mention the greater power of God to keep you, engage the enemy, or kick the stuffing out of the enemy. It appears he does not realize he actually has the greater power and bigger guns residing in himself if he is a child of God.

Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world

This article is a result of fear not faith.

If some would actually like to dig on their own the Apostle Paul specifically gives the things that are the marks of a true Apostle in his own words. Surely helps to clear out the type of confusion that article presents when you know what they are from his own mouth.

I apologize for the length of the response. However, I started typing and it just kept coming. If you were patient enough to read through it all it is appreciated.

Blessings!

Solomon,

I totally get what you are saying. I definitely don't want to walk around in fear. But I don't think the article is advocating rejecting anything miraculous.

This is a very small example, but it happened yesterday. I was witnessing to this man and he was sure that he was saved, although he completely lived like a lost person, and it didn't bother him in the least. His testimony was that he was sitting in church, not paying attention, when suddenly he couldn't stay sat down. He, out of comlete control of his own will, rose up and headed to the front and got baptized. There was no presentation of the gospel.

I told him, "Buddy, I don't care if an angel from heaven appeared to you and told you that you are saved; if you never heard the gospel before then you do not belong to the Lord." Now that man was depending on those things that seemed miraculous to him to confirm his stance with the Lord. But it was clear to him and it was clear to me as we finished talking that he didn't know the Lord. It still didn't bother him, but he knew where he stood.

Jesus will send many to hell and their defense will be "Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name? Didn't we heal in your name? Didn't we cast out demons in your name?" Obviously they were convinced that they were the Lord's because of the miraculous things that they did. But they did not know the Lord.

It should cause us to fear and tremble to hear these things. Doesn't the scripture admonish us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling?

I think this article is only advocating that we need to be discerning and seek the Lord.

Another issue that ties into this is church discipline. Matthew 18 and 1 & 2 Corinthians are prime examples of church discipline. Church discipline will result in the repentance of a believer or it will result in safeguarding the flock from an unbeliever who is spreading lies and deceit.

That's something I have been pushing to teach in my church. It's scary though. It always seems to either get taken to one extreme--where a brother, filled with pride, gladly takes a swing at his brother in front of the whole congregation--or the other extreme--where everyone says, "Oh, it isn't that bad. It's not like they are killing people." and it just keeps growing and growing as a problem.

I wanna see men who humble themselves and prayerfully and lovingly correct other brothers for the sake of the Gospel, who don't rejoice if it ever comes down to removing them from the fellowship, who accepts back with open arms those who repent, who can take loving correction as well, and who watch themselves, lest they fall. If we, seeking the Lord, humbling ourselves, I believe it is possible. This will not harm us, but benefit us incredibly.

What do you guys think? I am not a church discipline guru, but I believe it could work, if we do it biblically. Is this done at any of your churches?

I was in a meeting where a person got up with a supposed prophetic message and the speaker told them to sit down and be silent. The down side with many discernment articles is that while they can present some truth, they often neglect love of the brethren,..."by this shall all men know that you are my disciples....Love, one toward another"... It would appear that suspicion is the seed planted with division being the fruit born..Unfortunately to go the opposite direction can be equally damaging. I think 2 Cor 12 is probably a good place to start when looking at people who desire to minister in the congregation, whether from the pulpit or the pew.

Just-in,

it's great that you have a fellowship that does that. Church discipline is in the scriptures for a reason. I have seen it needed where I attend. If you guys don't need it, that's great!

QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________
"Is this done at any of your churches?"
______________________________________________________________

Yes.

We have a brother in our church that struggles with immorality. At the present I am not sure of his membership status, but he has been banned from holding any church office, assume any leadership position, including teaching, having a devotional or any business office. He attends and the leadership is working with him...

Havok, you are right, if church discipline would be used it would do a lot to weed out the leaven that infects the entire body of Believers. Having said that, I have never seen it done perfectly, but I suppose that even feeble attempts are better then none at all although a pastor can soon run into selective confrontation depending on the offender, becoming political.

I understand Greg's concern and commend him for sharing OP.

"The article ENCOURAGES people to reject anything supernural based on the fact that it is supernatural. What a total perversion of truth that is."

I see your angle, but i disagree with your assessment of this post.
I see this sort of thing on these forums quite often! You have read something into this article that's not there. If you will go back and carefully read the article, the emphasis is on false teachers and prophets who use the "miraculous" to decieve, which according to Mt 7 & 24 is a real possibility. The writer never stated that the supernatural or miracles themself were a form of deception. Now that may have been what the writer meant, but that's not what was written. He wrote that false teacher who use the supernatural to deceive are the ones we need to be on guard against.

Having said that, I agree that presenting a problem without giving a solution is not helpful. This too is a very common occurrence on SI. I'm sure ive done exactly the same thing. I do think this letter was intended for more mature christians who know these things but who simply need to be reminded that deception is real.

This is a good read.

"At times the deception in teaching is not obvious but in character it becomes more obvious. Does the minister live like Christ or is he full of greed, selfishness, self-exaltation, soulish and carnal? “The opposite of Christ is called the antichrist in the New Testament. If Christians do not see this clearly, then when the antichrist turns up on the world’s stage, with his false signs and wonders, they too will blindly accept him.”

Jesus said that we would know them by their fruits: “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:15-20).

Is the teaching that is being brought forth in line with the Word of God? The enemey will atttempt to mix in false teaching with the Word of God. Scriptures will be taken out of context. We must study to show ourselves approved of God and be able to rightly divide the Word of truth.

The Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of truth, is living within us. If we are sensitive to the Holy Spirit we will know, and be able to discern the difference between flesh and spirit, truth and error, and we will also know when there is mixture. "As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." (1 John 2:27)

The gospel of Jesus Christ is still the power of God that brings salavation unto every one that believes. When the good news of Jesus Christ is preached people will be saved, they will be delivered, and healings will take place. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." (Romans 1:16).

Mike

what was going through my mind as I read your response and have read through this thread is the Hebrews who the apostles stated crept in unawares and Paul called them false brethren and the teaching they had was scriptural according to the OT teachings....circumcision .... however Paul called that a false teaching. What I have seen in the church is some people just by nature are very disciplined or regimented in their own course of life, they may be very moral people, upright in their ways but they embrace a righteousness by works type of religion, just like the days of old, a little of Jesus, a little of works, but ultimately when push comes to shove they will never lay down their lives for the (brethren) saints or body of Christ. As I've been reading many of these ...discernment type threads I have become increasingly aware of what Jesus said..."BY this shall all men KNOW that YOU are my disciples" and it boiled down to one characteristic , Agape' love. And we all know the charastics of love found in 1Cor13 and Gal. but it seems that much of what we pass off as godly is really just a person who can discipline themselves to act a certain way in public and teach a certain doctrine but genuine christianity has always been a willingness to lay down our life for the brothers and sisters where God has placed us.

"but it seems that much of what we pass off as godly is really just a person who can discipline themselves to act a certain way in public and teach a certain doctrine but genuine christianity has always been a willingness to lay down our life for the brothers and sisters where God has placed us."

Amen brother! Only the Holy Spirit can give life, and much of the time the dead letter of the law is taught, which is the ministry of death. The words of Jesus are spirit and they are life. The ministry of the new covenant is a ministry of life.

Mike

Just-In,

That is something I was talking about recently with another brother. That very few of us had anything to do with one another outside of church. I referenced a few scriptures and he agree, but nothing was done.

That kills me. I can't walk with the Lord by myself. I can't grow in Christ without my other brothers and sisters. Yes, there must be some separation and a personal walk with the Lord, but without true fellowship with other believers and their constant interaction in my life--their watchfullness, their love, their encouragement, their correction, their spiritual gifts, etc--I will never more than what I am now. I am just a piece of the body, not the whole. And it is the same with all of us. They need me just as much as I need them. That is why I am excited about house churches, but the ones I have been to around here are very emergent/mystical in their practices and that sends up all kinds of red flags. I long for fellowship and I know those who are in my church do to. But we seem to be unable to break through all the formalities of churchiness. My church is very close to being financially bankrupt. Sometimes I wish it would happen and we would lose the building so we we be forced to meet in a home and really, truly have fellowship.

Either way, it's devastating me inside and out. That is why I came on these forums and read what the Lord is doing in other's lives and what things He is teaching them. Cause I want some form of that more than what I currently have.

But I am pushing. I am pushing as hard as I can to break down all those walls. It is hard though.

I am not being selfish, but it is the reality of our faith. I can't grow without the rest of the body. And only being attached on sunday and wednesday to the body does not give the support that it needs to live.

havok,

You say you long for fellowship...What say if you invite these people into your home for food and fellowship on a regular basis?

After our daughter Regina died I felt led to do this very thing. Once a month, I would invite people from church on a Sunday evening when we did not have services. We would all sit around the dining room table and sing for one hour. I provided them with a sweet drink to lubricate their vocal cords so they can sing. I was also particular who I invited - I wanted a good mix of people who could sing four part harmony. For example, I did not want all bass singers and one weak tenor. If there is a weak tenor, invite also someone who is a strong one. Doing so, did wonders to help me deal with the grief of losing our daughter. AND the spirit of that fellowship was awesome. The Spirit of the LORD was there...

Need to do it again - got out of habit doing it. BTW, I did serve some snack food afterwards...you can't meet without eating something!:-)

God bless.

BTW, I did serve some snack food afterwards...you can't meet without eating something!:-)

AMEN!

My sunday school class has started having dedicated days of fellowship each month, it is a start. I am hoping that eventually, we'll be close knit. There are some brothers in the church that I am very close to. But My church isn't just me and them. I want us all to strive for godliness in our relationships with one another. That doesn't mean just not hating each other or not treating each other unkindly. Lost people can do that. I am talking about us being closer than any husband/wife or mother/child, etc.

lol...I was just trying to express closeness. I wasn't saying anything beyond that. That was over the top, I suppose.

The Early Years of the Tongues Movement

http://www.banner.org.uk/tb/lang.html

I read this online book non-stop I was shocked, but it will show you clearly that Satan’s Co-workers are found in meetings of God’s saints.

I remember the first Sermon Index conference held in Canton, I had witches come up to me and speak curses at me right after a meeting or service, and strange things would happen...no big deal though, normally just grabbed another believer and used the promises of God in prayer and those things would stop.