On another Thread, Ginnyrose posted this link:
I passed it on to my wife, and several others who love dressing modestly.
There may be other such sources that others may want to share for those interested.
The fashion industry has been speeding up the moral decline of our nation for many years, but THANK GOD for good sources of godly clothing for women!
Hi,
I found the clothes worn on this website to be immoderate. These outfits will draw attention to self due to their Ma Ingalls-ness. They reflect a different era, not Christian modesty. If they do not want to embrace modern standards (without being immodest) they should dress like biblical times.
I found this' site that covers the other dangerous aspect we should consider about our clothing - self-righteousness and legalism.
http://www.johnandellenduncan.com/jd_modesty.htm
I conclude with the conclusion on the site -
" The Biblical timeless principles on dress teaches us to blend with our world where it is not sinful. We are to dress ourselves modestly as to not draw attention to ourselves, either by lewdness or by excess in any way. Bible modesty is not sinful but is moderate, is gender sensitive, and is appropriate for the current day and society where we live."
Sorry Ginnyrose, if it looks like I am standing against one of my favorite posters on this forum.
Joch
I have been following the other thread titled Nakedness and saw this website shared there. I have no problem with the website, some of the dresses are very pretty and I do appreciate that they are modest. Unlike the other person I do not believe that one has to dress modern in order to not draw attention to ourselves. I do believe GOD gives us freedom to dress in a manner that is comfortable, and modest at the same time. This topic of modesty has been on my heart for a very long time and I find it is one the enemy uses most effectively against women today. It goes so far beyond what style of clothes we wear, that is more a symptom and for most women even if they changed how they dressed and covered themselves completely from head to toe it still would not be the cure for what continues to plague their hearts. The truth of the matter is there is so much pressure today in the world to be young, skinny, and beautiful at all times. How we choose to clothes and adorn our bodies in most circles reflects who we are and our value and worth. Clothing is a part of that but so is body shape and appearance. Vanity and the desire to be pleasing to our spouses can be very difficult and fine line to walk for the christian woman. The world is constantly SCREAMING at us what is beautiful and at times that noise can be so hard to block out. How often are little girls told or hear adults say that in order to have value or to matter today you must look sexy, pretty, and perfect. Its everywhere, in the media, in the news, in the entertainment, and sadly in our churches too. As for women who are truly desiring to live for JESUS and dress in a modest yet feminine manner it can be a grueling and difficult task. Going to your local department store and now a days even thrift stores will leave you empty handed as almost all clothing today is made to appear sexy. It takes time to sift through what is available and to find pieces that will not draw undo attention but will let women cover themselves and shine the light of JESUS for the world to see. Its not just the clothes that are the issue, its the heart. How many women have struggled with a deep desire to dress more modestly only to have their own husbands make comments about them dressing like grandma; words like frumpy or plain are spoken without much thought. Words do matter and I have known many cases where husbands unknowingly have been used by the enemy to cause their own wives to stumble in this area. Husbands I wonder do you really understand the effect your behavior and attitude has on your wife? When she sees your eyes linger on the magazine covers in the grocery line, or stay upon an improperly dressed women as she passes by this sends a message that the enemy is sure to use against her. She sees that you find that kind of look appealing and then she examines herself and the enemy will always be there to assure her how she fails to compare. Actions speak so much louder then words! We shouldn't be giving just our girls lessons in modesty but we should also be teaching boys, and men lessons in what true beauty is. Beauty is not just about what the eyes behold, its about the heart. CHRIST being beaten and hung on the cross is not a beautiful thing to look upon and yet the depth and beauty in what HE did for us is more breath taking then anything this world could ever offer.
This topic will always be an issue among the family of God until both brothers and sisters attitudes and hearts are changed to reflect CHRIST and not self or the world around us. I don't share these things as an excuse but rather to speak of what the LORD has placed on my own heart.
God bless
maryjane
jochbaptist, there are many places in the USA where the clothing found on http://www.liliesapparel.com is as up to date and modern as it was when the pilgrims first introduced that style of dress to this part of the world.
The Bible says clearly: Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
When you state: "These outfits will draw attention to self due to their Ma Ingalls-ness." you are pretending to know the hearts of all involved; those wearing and those looking at those wearing. Many of them may not have ever heard of "Little house on the Prairie", but the style (which was in style when the pilgrims came over) is a great style of clothing.
How does a clothing style become a modern standard? The more modern people who dress that way, the more it becomes "the standard". What better way could Christians affect our generation than to adopt a very modest style, to the extent that it becomes the standard?
Mr. Duncan's conclusion: "The Biblical timeless principles on dress teaches us to blend with our world where it is not sinful" needs to also consider the verse:
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Sometimes "blending with our world" means imitating the styles of people who promote evil ... and in that sense promoting (giving your stamp of thumbs up approval to) the same evil ... like the "Christian rock" crowd who look just like the demonic rock crowd and thereby promote the same glorification of evil.
If I wear a picture of a bottle of Vodka on my shirt, I am promoting evil, regardless of how modest the shirt is, and regardless of the fact that I have never tasted alcohol in my life!
I see nothing wrong in saints knowing of some items of clothing that would be more modest then things you can find at Walmart etc. We only caution believers let each person be led by their own conscious in these issues meaning to one sister modesty can mean something for her while another sister it means something different. The most important thing is the modesty of the heart.
But it is good to see a ministry like this for sisters who need to find alternatives for some of their clothing where secular stores do not offer.
I agree with Jochbaptist, the clothes are too "ma Ingalls" and from another era. There are many styles out there that are modest, yet still look attractive on women. Women may need to spend a little more time looking for them, but they are there. If one is a mennonite, those styles would be acceptable in their community, but would definitely stand out otherwise. If those who wear such clothing went out to share the gospel to others, how would they be received? Isn't that our aim as Christians, not to be separate from the world , but to be salt and light?
I have many many friends whom dress Amish/Mennonite, and attend Church with some of them, and I have great respect for their sincerety and their love for the Lord and their desire to be set apart from the World.
But such clothing does not represent the Clothing of the Biblical days in any form whatsoever, and such clothing is revealling of a very self consciousness heart.
Even though many are undoubtly offended, Josh and used4him have a point.
I think my Dad is the best example of anyone that I have ever known when it come's to the clothing that he puts on,
He takes no thought for what he puts on. He spends almost no money on clothes and pays little to no attention to his outward appearence. When he is at a yard sale if a shirt or such is priced at a dime or so, he might buy it, If it is a dollar forget it.
I have often wondered how persons in native cultures who wear little or nothing ever manage to get anything done and American males are apparently brought to their knees by a woman wearing pants.
Wearing an ancient modest dress and an immodest (or modest) modern dress can both lead to Pharisee or legalism. For example if the women wearing modern dress compares herself with another women who poses nude and thinks that she is accepted because she is not worse like her then she is a Pharisee who has no hope. There is no hope for salvation for Pharisee because they think they are not sick and need no Physician.
Posters here think that if anyone talks or discusses about a higher standard then he is preaching legalism. If Jesus lived in this era and preached sermon on the mount to them then they will quickly call him Pharisee because he is preaching a higher standard that is not written in any book. I would suggest them to read 50 marks of Pharisee by Zac Poonen to understand exactly what is legalism and what leads to Pharisee.
I am always amused when brothers set themselves up as fashion experts of modesty over what sisters should wear. It seems this should be their issue and the Spirit of Gid should lead them.
Brothers I an sure there ars more pressing things to occupy your time then beginning the modesty experts over the sisters.
My thoughts.
Bearmaster.
This thread is pretty ridiculous. I don't think anyone wearing modest clothing, regardless of the era, who wears it for the Lord and out of a love for Him will be put to shame--whether old-fashioned or modern.
As long as there are those who want to make it about clothes instead of a heart issues in both men and women there will always be debate.
God bless
maryjane
On another note Ginnyrose I was able to look up some other very lovely sites that produce modest clothing so thank you for sharing the link. Also I may just take up sewing some things myself, after all who needs the department stores :)
Agreed.
used,
You may be surprised how much business Evelyn Miller gets from non-Mennonites! It is a lot. There are a lot of American ladies who are discouraged with the lack of modest clothing available for them.
You may also be surprised to know she uses zippers in her dresses that were unknown to 'ma ingalls'! Also beautiful fabrics, unknown to Ma...
In any case she and her daughters look very respectful, beautiful and they have a ministry teaching other women this concept - she is very much a Titus 2 woman. God bless her!
AND...I would hate to be identified with modern styles that promote immorality. It would be a disgrace to the LORD...
God bless.
Jesus never talked about clothes or headcoverings. One woman washed His feet with her hair. So, she must have uncovered herself. Jesus looks at the heart and there are many ways to be modest. Nice clothes, pretty patterns, but I have to agree with jochbaptist's spiritual insight into this along with proudpapa and used4him.
If people are more concerned about their outward appearance they will be just as concerned about other's outward appearance.
To be fair and not to judge, I think there is a market for these clothes and these brethren have found a way to support themselves and obviously they are also ministering to some. Whatever you do, be free in Jesus and don't use your freedom for sin.
I wish we did not get so bogged down on outward things as much as we do on SI.
A lot what has been posted on SI involves communication - how we understand the gospel and how this is communicated. Why our appearance is subject to disgust, distrust is beyond me because our appearance does communicate what we believe, what we are. If your heart is serving the LORD it will be demonstrated by what you will put on because his spirit will be teaching you and you in turn will be obedient.
Scripture tells us we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. The word 'temple' is an interesting word here. Why the writer used this word should challenge us. The Jews knew what the temple was, how God had given strict orders in its structure, its appearance, its use. Today his children are the temple where his spirit abides...lesson here if are but willing to listen.
If you want to dress the whore industry promotes do not be surprised if that is how people will treat you. It is up to you but be aware that godly people will not believe your 'testimony'.
ginnyrose can i ask you then do you think the site you posted is what women should wear? is there any room in your understanding for women to wear clothing like these site has to offer?
http://www.dressingforhisglory.com/
http://apostolicclothing.com/22-modest-clothing-casual-skirts
trying to make my way through all of this but am glad to hear your thoughts
rdg
I think modesty IS indeed a big issue in this generation. Modesty in clothing shows a condition of heart that is rarely found today. True modesty does not lift up phariseic standards in order to shame those who do differently. It is a quiet humble way of covering the beautiful created female body and discreetly keep it out of sight from lustful looks from sin weakened men and reserve it for their husband alone. They do not parade their body to the world, neither do they parade their piety.
Walking down a street in summer here in the UK is a minefield for the eyes of a man. The first look you cannot avoid, the second is sin. Few women are sensitive enough to spare from temptation, even in the church.
My unbelieving grandmother would faint if the would see women in the street and in church if she lived to see this day.
Remember, God blessed Shem and Japhet for discreetly covering their father's nakedness.
I tell my daughters so and I my wife agrees with me. She does not exactly dress like a puritan or Amish women but she understands the principles and practises them.
Consciene alway considers both sides, not only my own but also the other party. The same applies to modesty in clothing.
It is not in the way of perfect love to say that if a man if a man find a womens clothting imodest that it is his own problem.
1 Cor 10: 29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
Narrowpath, I agree with you that modesty IS a big issue in our day. I think you put it so well that with true modesty, "They do not parade their body to the world, neither do they parade their piety." Oh that the Body of Christ would clothe itself with truly modest hearts which will indeed be reflected on the outside!
Are there more "modestly" priced modest clothing sources? :)
QUOTE:
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ginnyrose can i ask you then do you think the site you posted is what women should wear? is there any room in your understanding for women to wear clothing like these site has to offer?
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I had to go back to that other thread where I posted the link to Evelyn Miller's website to understand this question: did I, in that post, indicate the only way to dress modestly is to wear clothing like Evelyn is promoting?
I suggest you reread it again. But for those who do not know where to go to, I will recopy it here:
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We had a lady, Evelyn Miller, who markets modest clothing on the web via http://www.liliesapparel.com speak at our church some time ago. They get marketing info to alert them of the upcoming trends in fashion. She told us all the fashions, trends are geared to be sexy, all of them. You can look at this website but let me tell you one thing, Evelyn and her girls dress so pretty, so nice - she looks like a queen! Really! and her daughters look like princess! So pretty - much nicer then what they have on their website. Makes anything you see in stores look like trash.
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OK, all I was saying is that as a marketer of clothing they get info from the fashion industry about upcoming styles that will be marketed. This is to help her to design clothing that would help her in making clothes the public will want. But Evelyn says all these fashions are designed to be sexy, provocative, nothing else. In contrast to this she does design and market clothing that is modest. Evelyn Miller is very creative with her designs, her use of fabrics, colors. If you were to study closely you will notice there are principles of modesty she follows. This is all.
It is unfortunate that she does not post pictures of what she and her daughters wear: they are modern without being frumpy; are but very modest - following the principles of covering up. This is the point.
Actually, I can think of other ways one can dress and be very attractive and very modest. I just used Evelyn Miller as an example. I do get disturbed that it appears we get our cues for dress from the world but merely modify it to make it more modest. This causes me to SIGH! We are in the world but not to be a part of it is a challenge, a huge challenge, I know. (I sew - have done it all my life. I have sewed dresses, pants and shirts for the boys; pieced quilts; am now into machine embroidery - very much a creative venture to say the least. But it is fun - sometimes I resent the fact one gets tired and has to eat and sleep!)
While we are on this subject - we have a couple from our church who lives and works in a Muslim country. The lady wears clothing like the native ladies do - don't know the names of the parts, but it consists of loose fitting pants topped with a loose top that hangs down to the knees. They may also wrap a 'scarf' around the neck. They tell us that western style clothing are considered very immodest in that country.
Anyhow, does this answer your question? Long answer to a short question...sigh
Anyhow, does this answer your question? Long answer to a short question...sigh
ginnyrose i was just looking for your thoughts on the web sites that i posted to that's all. i was interested in hearing your thoughts cause i have in times past appreciated your insights on this topic. i was not trying to slam the site you mentioned in the thread at all.
rdg
edg,
Ok, back to your original question: yes, I do understand it possible to dress modestly apart from the styles used by Evelyn Miller. Mrs. Miller is a person the LORD has used to promote modesty in females far beyond her church and I admire her very much. Too many females who promote modesty are - well - not very neat in my opinion, and I think this discredits this concept unnecessarily.
rdg, are we talking pass each other?
ginnyrose
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