From a Russian Gulag

In the shadow of the cross in persecution, doctrine and theology become irrelevant in laying down one's life for Christ.

Blaine Scogin

________________________

I don't agree with this based on how it is written. It sounds good but just as the thread posted by Greg said you can not make something bad, into something good. The false and deceiving teaching of the Roman Catholic church can not be made good with a feel good story. It may sound harsh to say but the truth is if the priest in this story died and went to his death holding firm to the lies and traditions of the RCC then there is every reason to believe he would not be with JESUS on the other side of eternity. We can live our lives with the thought of I will have a little Jesus and a little of this religion and that and think God will be ok with it but the Bible tells a different story. HE wants our whole heart and nothing less. How can a priest if he dies unrepentant, who spent his life teaching and sharing that Mary is equal to JESUS, that Mary is co redeemer, that Mary is to be prayed to, that dead saints are to be prayed to, that the pope is the vicar of Christ, that men need and intermediary between themselves and God other then Jesus, ect. How can that person be saved if they die holding on to this as truth and placing their hope and faith in these things. If I apply the logic from this story then why not the Mormon as well? There are plenty of Mormons who claim to love Jesus and live and would willingly die for "their" version of Jesus. God set the standard, JESUS alone is the way the truth and the light. Stories like this give false hope to those lost in the RCC.

How one lives and how one dies does matter if they are holding on to anything other then CHRIST JESUS. There is only hope and salvation in HIM. Perhaps bear when you read this you see it differently because you being filled with the Holy Spirit see something different, but my mother who is lost in false religion of the RCC would see this story as proof that the Catholic Priest can go to be with the LORD even though his heart was divided between the LORD and the Catholic Church.

God bless
maryjane

After thought: This story would have held more meaning if no religion had been mentioned and each man was clinging to CHRIST only as LORD and SAVIOR and sharing JESUS only with those around them. I should explain I love those lost in the Catholic church and I pray for them to see HIS truth, to repent and cling to HIM only.

by sermonindex on 2013/10/29 6:58:55

Sister,

I would agree with you in this way. Also I would agree with Blaine that the fires of persecution can bring out true conversions or refine and convert the religious. Once those who are in a jail cell apart from their system of christendom they start to consider the Christ alone.

_______________

I understand that as well and yet for every Catholic(like my mom) who reads these kinds of stories it seems to cement in even deeper the idea and notion that they are fine and will go to be with the LORD even though they hold a divided heart between JESUS and the RCC. Perhaps what I wrote seemed harsh, if it did its only because I love those lost in this false system and fear they will one day stand before the LORD having placed their trust in falsehoods and lies and hear HIM say depart from me I have never known you. My own mother is getting older and has been ill and I pray for her still, her faith is in mary and the holy catholic church as well as JESUS. JESUS deserves our whole heart doesn't HE?

I will close by saying I meant no offense to Blaine, I know his heart is filled with love for the persecuted. I just really am learning that every word we type or speak is so important and we will give an account. Even in typing this my prayer is LORD let my words reflect YOU and none of me.

Thank you for allowing me to share this burden on my heart this morning.
God bless
mj

"I am a Protestant, but we have had near us Catholic bishops and monks and nuns about whom we felt that the touching of their garments heals. We were not worthy to untie their shoelaces. Such men have been mocked and tortured in our country. And even if it would mean to go back to a Rumanian prison, to be kidnaped by the Communists and going back and tortured again, I cannot be quiet. I owe it to those who have suffered there."
- RICHARD WURMBRAND from COMMUNIST EXPLOITATION OF RELIGION HEARING

by proudpapa on 2013/10/29 7:43:41

"I am a Protestant, but we have had near us Catholic bishops and monks and nuns about whom we felt that the touching of their garments heals. We were not worthy to untie their shoelaces. Such men have been mocked and tortured in our country. And even if it would mean to go back to a Rumanian prison, to be kidnaped by the Communists and going back and tortured again, I cannot be quiet. I owe it to those who have suffered there."
- RICHARD WURMBRAND from COMMUNIST EXPLOITATION OF RELIGION HEARING

______________________________________

I have read Richard Wurmbrand writing and I appreciate what he has shared. I know some wonderful Catholic, I know some very kind, generous, and giving Mormons too. People who demonstrate real love towards others but still hold to the teachings of their chosen religion. So does JESUS expect us to walk with HIM alone or is a divided heart a way to salvation? Can I believe what ever I want to and go to heaven and be with the LORD, can I pray to Mary, worship her as co redeemer and still go to heaven and be with the LORD? What does the Bible say? I am sincerely asking what does the Bible say on this topic? If I am wrong then I want to be corrected...

What does matter is HIS truth and I am asking sincerely does the RCC teach Biblical truth?

God bless
maryjane

///What does matter is HIS truth and I am asking sincerely does the RCC teach Biblical truth?///

No,

but I do believe that their is most likely some true born again believers within the RCC.

MaryJane,

Thank you for your response. I completely get the notion that there are minor doctrinal issues that we can agree to disagree on and still love each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. But, in this age of relativism we must be careful to not throw out all doctrine for the sake of unity. We still love all men but the Bible is clear on the definition of what it means to be Christian and our primary responsibility is to lead all men, regardless of how evil or sincere, loving, moral, and service-driven they are, to the truth of the gospel.

I never thought I would see a time where a stand for sound doctrine would be criticized, particularly from within the body of Christ but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at all as it is written:

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine.." 2 Tim 4:3

God bless!

Hi rjennings,

RE: /// I never thought I would see a time where a stand for sound doctrine would be criticized, particularly from within the body of Christ but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at all as it is written : ..///

Who in this thread has criticized sound doctrine ??

Because some believe that there have been true Christians with in the RCC such as Madame Guyon, and that there is a possability that there could still be a few true Christians within the RCC, you somehow believe that we are opposed to sound doctrine ?

All on this thread are very opposed to the RCC !

Edited:

As I said to Greg I do understand the purpose of the story I just can see as one who was lost in the RCC how the wording in the story can be taken and twisted by one lost in the traditions of these false religions. I have been accused of hating Catholic before and nothing could be further from the truth, are there people who love the LORD in the RCC church, probably will they continue saying the Rosary, praying to mary, and promising allegiance to the papacy? NO! How could they if they are truly saved and born again in JESUS.

I do not wish to argue I just long to see those lost in the RCC come out of that dead religion and be saved. I pray that they will see the sin in their life and repent just as each of us must do.

Perhaps as hard as it is to hear, the BIBLE does tell us not all who claim to know HIM really do. Many will say LORD LORD and HE will say depart from me. I just keep praying that those lost in the RCC who believe sincerely that they are saved and place their faith in both JESUS and mary will see the truth before it is to late.

God bless
mj

after thought: I pray also for those who are lost in these other religions would see the truth as well. I think Neil was right when he posted in another thread that the term Christian has come to mean something other then those who willing take up their cross, follow JESUS and submit to HIM as LORD of their lives. Today many different religions call themselves Christian and are filled with those who are not born again, who do not know or walk with JESUS, and who live in open and will full rebellion to HIM. There is a standard...JESUS alone is the Way, the TRUTH, and the LIGHT!

proudpapa,

Sorry if I'm a little sensitive on this subject but I've confronted this issue head-on recently in my church where hyper-grace theology is embraced. In one breath everyone agrees that we all strive to adhere to sound doctrine but in the other states that doctrinal disputes does nothing but divide the body of Christ. You can't have it both ways! If the gospel is being perverted to the extent that there are no genuine conversions what are we left with? We may as well stick Mormon on the door...or pick your poison.

I frequent this board enough to know the heart of most you who post. I'm simply concerned over what I see as a slippery slope that many are on to expand the boundaries of Christianity beyond that defined in scripture.

God bless!

Hi rjennings,

Thankyou very much for explaining the reason for your sensitivity and concern for this type of subject.

I am vey opposed to the RCC. and to the Gospel of lasciviousness.

Forum is the message clear? Do you understand what is being conveyed?..Are you going to give your allegoance to a system of doctrine of to the slain Lamb of God. Add you going to lay down your lives for TULIP or for Jesus Christ? Does anyone understand what I am saying?
Blaine Scogin

_________________________

As I said to Greg I did understand what you were saying from the beginning with your post but took issue because of the wording in the story. If you, I, my mom, and my brother are all locked in that camp together, each of us swearing we love JESUS and each of us kneels to pray the difference would be you and I would cry out to JESUS alone while my mom and brother(both whom are catholic would reach for their rosary or begin to pray to Mary or one of the many dead saints as well as JESUS. Do you understand the difference in that? Each one of us is ready to die for JESUS but two of the four are placing our hope and faith in something other then the LORD alone...

God bless
maryjane

by bearmaster on 2013/10/29 11:57:07

Forum I ask you again. Are you going to die for correct doctrine or for Jesus Christ? Does anyone have courage to answer this? Does anyone know what I.am talking about?

Ate you more passionate about Jesus Cbrist or your doctrine?

Blaine Scogin

______________

Blaine dear brother I will answer. Of course I want to follow JESUS and live my life for HIM only but there are instances where doctrine does matter, as in this case with the RCC and the Mormons too. If I say it doesn't matter what the RCC believe(when it does) then I do them a disservice by allowing them to believe a lie. JESUS is the only WAY, TRUTH and LIGHT. GOD is a jealous GOD and as HIS child I will stand firm in HIS truth, there are some things that do matter...HE sets the standard and we don't get to change it that is just the way it is.

God bless
mj

Bearmaster,

I think your intent is to bring unity in light of the controversy over the Strange Fire conference which is commendable. I’m old enough to remember when Dave Hunt released Seduction of Christianity in the mid-eighties. I have friends who still believe Dave to be the antichrist and accused him of yellow-journalism and wailed over how much harm he did to the body of Christ. I personally believe the opposite is true. I took issue over much of what was being promoted then in the name of Pentecostalism as I do today. I appreciated the effort he took to deal with the individuals rather than to generalize while others thought that his name-calling was out-of-line. The opposite appears to have occurred with Strange Fire and controversy still prevails but I still think if we Pentecostals take the larger picture to heart and acknowledge we have some housekeeping to do now as we did then, the Body of Christ at large will benefit.

I’m still a large Dave Hunt fan BTW. :-)

God Bless!

Mary Jane,

Persecution does something to people. It is like heat: heat will harden an egg and it will also soften a hard potato. So is persecution. While your family may be "stuck" in their RC rituals as having redeeming value, all these things may lose their value once they are faced with the probability of dying. When faced with death life assumes a far different perspective. But then not all will change when faced with a situation in which one is totally helpless to improve his lot. This is what Blaine was telling us when he shared this story.

I do not know if you are aware, but we earnestly believe in Believer's baptism. This was a hot issue the Anabaptists had with the Catholics, the Lutherans and the Reformers during the Reformation era (1500s). Many Anabaptists were severely persecuted by these groups (history tells us the Reformers were more severe in their persecution then the Catholics!) because of this issue. It was not quite this simple, but for the conversation, this will do.

Now - Richard Wurmbrand is a Lutheran! He explained his affiliation with it because this is the first form of Christianity he was exposed to. Do I as one who hold to believer's baptism discount his testimony based on his belief in baptism? The evidence is overwhelming how the LORD changed this man's heart - mode of baptism notwithstanding. I think one sees the mercy, grace of God working in spite of doctrine and for this one can only sit back and be awed. Doctrine is very important, but it does not save in and of itself. It is important that one has an idea of who God is, how he works and man's response to Him, but there is a dimension of God that we cannot fathom. And this is what the incident Blaine shared, and Wurmbrand's testimony teaches us.

Mary Jane, I still believe and teach Believer's baptism, Richard Wurmbrand notwithstanding.

Does this make sense, Mary Jane?

God bless.

Sandra

Greeting ginnyrose

I did understand what Blaine shared and I do understand his point as well but at the same time I know of many catholic who go to their death holding firm in their faith to the Roman catholic church, Mary, and Jesus. My dad as you know was one such person. He died confessing to a priest and not Jesus.

Thank you for sharing ginnyrose always good to hear your insights.
I agree God can change a heart no matter what sin there is it can be forgiven through Jesus.

God bless
Mj

Dear Mary Jane,

I don’t know how you came to a saving knowledge of the Lord having been reared in RCC, but I have found that often the approach makes all of the difference in the world as to whether or not we win or lose in persuading such people to walk in the light. Jesus said that he would make us fishers of men. My dad once said: "you will never catch any fish throwing rocks at the alligators”. This is SO true when it comes to leading people away from deception and into the Gospel net. If we approach them with: "The Catholic Church is wrong, and I will prove it to you in the Bible”, we automatically close the door on persuading them because they are on the defensive trying to look for a way to prove us wrong. If we approach them with: "God’s Word is what we all need to study and know for our very own selves what is truth” and we encourage them to study their Catholic Bible with an open mind and heart to know the truth, and if we keep praying for God to enlighten them, they will eventually see FOR THEMSELVES the errors of the RCC.

God has helped me this past year to help lead a person who was once deeply Catholic to the realization that the church that he was reared in is deceiving people. In all of my conversations with this friend I never said one bad word about the Catholic religion. If I had any critical words to say, it was against ALL religious people. I often pointed out to him that there are MANY people in ALL the churches who religiously fulfill the expectations of their churches, but they are lost. The important thing is having a real relationship with Christ which comes through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. The only thing I have done with this friend is to study the Bible with him. He developed a hunger to study the Bible. As he would study, he would also look at the Catholic Bible and compare. The more you can inspire a Catholic to study THE CATHOLIC BIBLE, the more hope that there is that he will see the light! My friend (Jesus is his name ”“ he is from Mexico) told me that when he goes back home to Mexico he is going to show the priest what is in his Catholic Bible and ask him WHY he never talks about those things to his congregation.

Have you ever tried to study the Catholic Bible with your mom? If you study in the Old Testament she will see an angry Jehovah God repeatedly pouring his fiery judgment out on people for worshiping images. You will not have to say anything. She will see it for herself. If you study the New Testament, she may eventually come to this verse in her Catholic Bible:
5For there is one God.
There is also one mediator between God and the human race,
Christ Jesus, himself human,
6who gave himself as ransom for all. This was the testimony at the proper time.

If you buy her a Catholic Bible as a Christmas present (check the verses really well because some RCC approved translations are better than others) and then ask her if you can simply study the Bible with her on a regular (maybe weekly) basis … if she can ever get an interest in studying or even just reading it … there will be hope that the light will shine on her darkness.

After all, how did Martin Luther get persuaded of the errors of the RCC? Simply by reading the Catholic approved translation that he happened to be privileged with education to understand.

Greetings Lordoitagain

I just wanted to say that I have read your post and will pray over what you said before I respond. I did not want you to think I was ignoring you.

God bless
maryjane

I understand. Please take your time to seek the Lord about it. I am praying for you that the Lord will lead you. Often it is much more difficult with family members!

I heard a very inspiring testimony on "Unshackled" of a young man who got saved and transformed. His whole family was lost. After many years, his brother was delivered from drugs and gloriously saved. All those years however, his dad's only response was that he didn't need that ... he was a good person (over and over and over again)...

Finally when his dad was in a nursing home getting close to the end, one day in desperation, he went to see him. He walked in and said: "Dad, I have a question that I want you to think about, and I am going to leave for a while, and come back and I want you to tell me what you think about it, but really think deeply on it: Is salvation a gift, or a reward?"

He went to a nearby wooded area and spent a long time crying out to God for the salvation of his dad. When he came back, his dad was beaming with joy. He was born again. He told his son that the more he thought and thought about it the more he realized that there was no way that he could win or earn his salvation as a reward. He had to receive it as a gift, and he did.

Just a few weeks later, his dad died as a joyful Christian.

There is still hope! ... even when they appear so convinced of their erroneous opinions. Sometimes just another fishing strategy led by the Holy Ghost ... or sometimes after one has sown another waters ... and God gives the increase.

I pray that either you or somebody else led of the Lord will be able to incite your mom's interest in a study of what is in that Book on which her religion is supposed to be based. If she ever makes a thorough examination (even of the RCC approved translation), she will be amazed at what she finds.

Greetings Lordoitagain:

Thank you for being patient with me.I think it is great that your friend has come to know the Lord and is no longer deceived by the false teachings in the RCC. I praise God and give thanks with you in that wonderful news.

You mentioned that "if my mother ever makes a thorough examination of even an approved RCC translation she will be amazed at what she finds," I have often thought this, but the truth is my mother does own her own Bible and she is extremely well read and knows both the old and new testament of her Bible very well. She reads daily and prays daily. She is most faithful to saying her rosary and lighting her candles. I have asked her questions about certain verses and pointed others out to her but thus far she does not have eyes to see nor ears to hear. She is committed to her faith in Jesus, to mary, and the RCC. If I bring up the topic or even ask question her she tells me I am the one with the problem not her. She has no problem with mary and her understanding of who she is and she will fight vigorously defending her faith. To her if she were to give up being a catholic it would like asking her to give up Jesus. So for now I pray for her, I pray and know as long as their is breath left in her body then there is hope she will see the truth.

Thank you for sharing.My only point was that doctrine in this case does matter because the beliefs taught in the RCC are false and something completely other then Biblical truth, just as with the Mormons, they teach lies as well. I know many are lost in religion today and in need of prayer...so I will keep praying.

God bless
maryjane

Greetings Blaine

First let me begin by asking you some questions and know that I do so in love brother.

IF I have a bowl of soup and 99% of that soup is good food but 1% is poison it is still lethal and will kill right?

Why if I love my mother or others lost in the RCC church would I ever want to not share with them about the lethal 1% that the RCC teaches and will separate them from GOD for eternity?

Where is the scripture to support that those with a divided heart will see eternity with HIM?

Where in Scripture does it support those who pray to anyone other then GOD will see Heaven?

Can I really profess JESUS as LORD and then pray to Mary and other dead saints and not consider that an idol in my life?

Can I truly believe JESUS is LORD and still kneel down take up the rosary beads and pray to mary?

Do all roads then lead to Heaven, can my mother who professes her faith in Jesus along with her faith in the RCC trust from the Word that she will be in eternity once she dies?

If we say that the beliefs in the RCC church system does not matter then can the same be said for the Mormons?(they profess Jesus as well?)

There are many many things that can be an idol in our life I realize this, there are many many things that one can cling to other then GOD and think they are fine with the LORD but until we start speaking the truth to one another in love and in HIM many are going to eternity lost and in darkness and we stand around speaking of how we do not want to offend. If I am in sin, then risk, and love enough to admonish me while it is still today and pray that the Holy Spirit will soften my heart that I will repent and be saved. To me this is a true demonstration of love.

As far as those saints who have gone to face judgement I have nothing to say one way or the other. It is not my place to judge someone especially since I had no fellowship with the person and do not know their heart. I can only speak to what I see in a persons life based on the fruit they show as we walk together and then only in love by HIS leading and not in judging but in sharing and praying for them.

Blaine I have not ever said that a person from the RCC can not be saved nor have I said that they can not have an encounter with GOD when faced with eternity knocking at their door what I have taken issue with is this "In the shadow of the cross in persecution, doctrine and theology become irrelevant in laying down one's life for Christ."

My issue is because doctrine does matter if it is false doctrine which the RCC church teaches then it does matter a lot to me and it should matter to you. If my mother and I were sent to those camps and facing any kind of persecution situation my heart would break not because I might be dying tomorrow, I know where I will be, but my mom she doesn't. Catholic's have no assurance of salvation. They believe if they are good enough and if they pray hard enough "maybe" God will in His mercy let them into Heaven. That is why she clings to mary so much, and why she pray to mary for intercessory prayer because she doesn't really believe Jesus listens to her prayers alone. How tragic is that...to me it is heart breaking. I realize there are many across the world who die facing persecution but what of those who slip into eternity every day, what of those who die believing a lie every day because there are those who say doctrine(in the case of what the RCC teaches doesn't matter) My mom could go to sleep tonight having said her rosary and never wake up again where will she be?? IT weighs on my heart brother.

Perhaps brother it is time for me to bow out of this thread as I see it is going no where and I do not want to cause either of us to stumble before the LORD. I know you love the persecuted church and pray for them as much as I do my mother and the lost in the RCC. Let us each walk according to what HE is showing us and pray for those who are persecuted and lost in the RCC church, I am sure our time will be better served to do so.

Oh I just wanted to say you do not have to answer any of the above questions they are there for you to think and consider before the LORD and I want to assure you I have and will continue to do so with what you have shared here.

God bless you brother
mj

Edit: Blaine as I hit the submit button the LORD quicken this verse to my heart in response to your question

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Build on the Rock

24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

(I don't have the answers to everything I only know one day I was lost inside the RCC and then GOD in HIS mercy opened my eyes, HE opened my ears, and heart to HIS saving truth, that JESUS alone is the Way, the Truth, and the LIGHT. and I am thankful and pray for that same truth to set my mother and millions of lost catholic free as well.)

again God bless you
mj

QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________

However, once persecution was lifted the differences became more apparent in what we see today with the Mennonites, Amish, Hutterites and Church of the Brethren. And all these camps have their difference like open and closed brethren, old order and new order, etc., etc.
______________________________________________________________

There is one other issue that divided Anabaptists which I consider absurd, ridiculous but then I suspect in principle the same thing still happens today.

During the Reformation when Anabaptists were hunted like rabbits and killed, there were many who escaped their persecutors because there were kind people in the community who took pity on these people and provided them with the means to escape or endure. These people were not Anabaptists but were Lutheran, Catholics, etc. The Anabaptists were grateful for their assistance but this created a stir amongst themselves: will these people go to heaven for helping them? This was an issue that caused church spits.

Yup, same thing is still happening today - the cause just differs. Judgement belongs to God! Not people and nobody can tell God who he should let into heaven!!

Yup, same thing is still happening today - the cause just differs. Judgement belongs to God! Not people and nobody can tell God who he should let into heaven!!

Agreed. That is why I do not ask people when they got saved. I ask them when they accepted Christ. Salvation belongs only to God. We are all in the process of being saved from the present sins (wordiness). Already saved from past sins (if repented). Will be saved from the presence of Sins (if we pursue sanctification earnestly during our stay on earth).

People invited into heaven are those who valued Jesus in either earthly life and gave their heart to him. If a protestant who believes in all right doctrines gave only 25% of his heart to Jesus and rest 75% to world. On the other hand a RC believer who gave 75% of his heart to Jesus and 25% to Mary or other RC saints. Then do you think God will reject this RC believer and invite the protestant believer?

I confess that I have not seen Christ in the face of people who are suffering like how Mother Theresa saw. So I believe she loved Jesus more than how much I love Jesus NOW. It will be unfair to think that she will be kept out and I will be invited because of my right doctrine alone.

Again it is a very sensitive subject.

Sree wrote:People invited into heaven are those who valued Jesus in either earthly life and gave their heart to him. If a protestant who believes in all right doctrines gave only 25% of his heart to Jesus and rest 75% to world. On the other hand a RC believer who gave 75% of his heart to Jesus and 25% to Mary or other RC saints. Then do you think God will reject this RC believer and invite the protestant believer?

______________________

Greetings

I know you did not direct this to me but as this topic has been on my heart after reading what you wrote I could not sleep so here I am. I am wondering why do you believe GOD who has given us the standard according to HIS WORD would accept either the Roman Catholic or Protestant that you have described? Where does the verses in the Bible come from that supports that GOD will accept anything less then a heart sold out to HIM? Help me understand what you are saying?

I did not write the above from a sarcastic heart but as one who is truly seeking to understand what is being said here?

God bless
mj

Edited

Mj, I certainly understand where you are coming from. I have Hindu relatives and friends who agree with me on the gospel completely except believing that Jesus is the only way to salvation. One even challenged me that she will see me in heaven as a Hindu.

Answering your question, I do not believe that anyone who does not have his heart completely sold out to Christ will be saved. But I have seen very very few Protestants or right doctrine believing Christians who satisfy this criteria. Less than1%. That is what I said.

less then one percent sree

that sounds a little more cynical then john marcartha and his words about the charismatics

I don't think we reach a perfect holiness sold out to god type sanctification ,,and only then pass the works test and are admitted to heaven ,,,,none would be save ,or maybe only the most mature ,,god loves his children even the small as well as the great ,and he seals them with the holy spirit as the guarantee,,,scripture points to other factors that prove who are born of god ,,the first letter of john is a great revelation of what was given to the doubting children ,,,,,john said that we wrote what he wrote for that reason so that they might know that they have eternal life

do we love the brothers and sisters

do we practice and pursue sin ,,(have no real repentance )
do we practice righteousness as a stile of life
or do we still walk in the darkness

moving pass that

what do we trust in is it Jesus and his work of redemption plus nothing

of do are we divided in our faith and do we live in sin trusting in more then god for salvation provision

is our faith in god alone

that will be the telling factor of our salvation
and (he that is born of god keeps himself and the evil one does not touch him )

if your heart and trust is 10 pecent on mary

or mical the archangel
or 10 percent works
or ten percent priest ,or paster
ten percent church

or ten percent self so to speak ,,to say this is literally and oxy moron in reality ,,you are not born of god if you heart remains on anything others then Christ

when god give the gift of faith ,,,,,it is a faith that is directed at the trinity and the work only god provides ,,it is utter blasphemy for a person to live there life and take the lords name vainly in one cheek ,wile there is in the other cheek is calling on the dead and walking in darkness ,,repentance is towards god the bible says and faith in our lord jesus Christ

not repentance towards mary 10 percent

there is not one shread of biblical evidence that a person can be save with out a full repentance toward god,,not a single example ,,,,,,,but the opposite

you cant love god with all your mind heart and soul and spirit ,,and kneel down before the dead saints angles or deamons or dead relatives

he who is born of god does not practice sin for god seed is in him and he cannot practice SIN period full stop

save through faith in god
no confidance in the flesh of any created being

that is saving faith ,,and weakest among us no what this is and it is what we are all striving to live

blessings

Jehovah witness were martyred for following another Jesus ,,so were Mormons ,,,,,,,,,,,getting killed for professing a faith in Jesus proves nothing in reality

which Jesus is the question ,,,
im sure a favourite pass time of Satan is to deceive and kill as many false professors for a false faith as killing the true follows ,,, he may enjoy that more so

by Sree on 2013/11/1 4:59:11

Mj, I certainly understand where you are coming from. I have Hindu relatives and friends who agree with me on the gospel completely except believing that Jesus is the only way to salvation. One even challenged me that she will see me in heaven as a Hindu.

Answering your question, I do not believe that anyone who does not have his heart completely sold out to Christ will be saved. But I have seen very very few Protestants or right doctrine believing Christians who satisfy this criteria. Less than1%. That is what I said.

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Thank you for getting back to me.I am glad we agree that,

"I do not believe that anyone who does not have his heart completely sold out to Christ will be saved."

God bless
mj

by brothagary on 2013/11/1 6:14:11

Jehovah witness were martyred for following another Jesus ,,so were Mormons ,,,,,,,,,,,getting killed for professing a faith in Jesus proves nothing in reality

which Jesus is the question ,,,
im sure a favourite pass time of Satan is to deceive and kill as many false professors for a false faith as killing the true follows ,,, he may enjoy that more so
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I wanted to respond to this because I think its also important to realize that even demons knew who Jesus was. Even they recognized HIM as the Son of God.

Mark 1:23-24
23 Now there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit. And he cried out, 24 saying, "Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are””the Holy One of God!”

Mary Jane wrote:

"First let me begin by asking you some questions and know that I do so in love brother.

IF I have a bowl of soup and 99% of that soup is good food but 1% is poison it is still lethal and will kill right?

Why if I love my mother or others lost in the RCC church would I ever want to not share with them about the lethal 1% that the RCC teaches and will separate them from GOD for eternity?

Where is the scripture to support that those with a divided heart will see eternity with HIM?”

Mary Jane, your contention in this thread obviously stems from your own close experiences with the deep deception that you lived in within the RCC and that which you see in your family members. One thing that I have discovered is that not all Catholics are the same! Just as not all Baptists are the same … Pentecostals … etc.

Some may disagree with me heartily, but I firmly believe that EVERY organized belief system known to man has at least 1% … if not 0.5% error (POISON) that could damn a soul to hell if swallowed. As Paul put it:

1Co 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Within every belief system there are extremes of theology that can deceive the heart that wants deception.

When I was growing up, I was convinced that if a person was Baptist, he was for sure on his way to hell. The only Baptists that I knew believed that if you are once saved, you are always saved, and no matter how wickedly you lived you are guaranteed assurance that you will go to heaven when you die. I knew for a fact that based on God’s Word they were dead wrong and on their way to hell. Since then, I have met and come to know of many Baptists and Calvinists such as Paul Washer who preach their doctrine differently. They blend eternal security with the fact that a changed life will show fruits, and come up with teachings that, if followed, would lead toward life eternal.

Having grown up and more thoroughly examined my own belief system, I have come to understand why many Calvinists attack the belief system that I was taught because within "Armenian” theology a person can come to trust in his own works instead of the finished work of Christ for his salvation and that 1% of poison can take the person to hell.

Just as I (with Biblical proof) branded anyone who was Baptist as "hell bound”, you similarly are branding all who are Catholic as "hell bound” based on the Catholics that you know. Having known many Catholics from third world countries, I can assure you that not all who are labeled "Catholic” believe (or even understand) what you were taught in RCC! Some of them barely understand the languages that presented the Catholic religion to them, but they understand "Jesus died to save me from my sins, and I believe in Him”. God is the One who knows in what their hearts are trusting for their salvation … regardless of the name over their churches.

Obviously there is a much higher percent of poison taught in the Catholic system than in the Baptist system, but the sad reality is that multitudes of Baptists are on their way to hell because they were taught a false concept of salvation in Baptist churches and they have believed the lies and will one day be saying "Lord, Lord ….” And will hear "depart ye workers of iniquity I never knew you”. Their idea of "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” was a mere acknowledgment of His existence but He was never Lord of their lives.

In eternity God will reveal those who within each different belief system REALLY trusted Him alone and were truly transformed, and those who chose the erroneous fringes within their belief system.

Lordotagain wrote:Just as I (with Biblical proof) branded anyone who was Baptist as "hell bound”, you similarly are branding all who are Catholic as "hell bound” based on the Catholics that you know. Having known many Catholics from third world countries, I can assure you that not all who are labeled "Catholic” believe (or even understand) what you were taught in RCC! Some of them barely understand the languages that presented the Catholic religion to them, but they understand "Jesus died to save me from my sins, and I believe in Him”. God is the One who knows in what their hearts are trusting for their salvation … regardless of the name over their churches.
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I did want to point out that I have said in this thread as well as other threads that I "DO" not believe all who are in the Catholic church are hell bound. Never said that and that is not my heart just so we are clear on that point.

Thank you for your response appreciate you taking the time to write it.

God bless
mj

Dear MaryJane,

I am sorry that I jumped to that conclusion. It appears that you are trying to balance out the need for doctrinal clarification with the fact that some who are involved in groups that teach falsehood are actually truly saved.

If a person reads the article presented in this thread and bases his eternal destiny on the assurance that we are agreeing that some Catholics go to heaven ... therefore "I'm OK like I am" (in my reliance on my doctrinal creeds for my salvation), then that person is choosing self deception over the revealed truth of God's Word.

by Lordoitagain on 2013/11/1 9:31:54

Dear MaryJane,

I am sorry that I jumped to that conclusion. It appears that you are trying to balance out the need for doctrinal clarification with the fact that some who are involved in groups that teach falsehood are actually truly saved.

If a person reads the article presented in this thread and bases his eternal destiny on the assurance that we are agreeing that some Catholics go to heaven ... therefore "I'm OK like I am" (in my reliance on my doctrinal creeds for my salvation), then that person is choosing self deception over the revealed truth of God's Word.
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Thank you for the response and I accept your apology :) Perhaps there is room for me to reread my responses as well and check my heart to be sure of how I say things. It is difficult sometimes in this form of communication to convey what a person is truly feeling and meaning on subjects such as these.

Any way I appreciate your heart and baring with me through this.

God bless
maryjane