Strange Fire Pastor Response - Viral Video on Youtube

Saints,

This video now almost has 20,000 views and has really been seen by many. When someone searches for "strange fire" it will appear as 4th or in the first page of results. There are very few video responses to the conference asking for any common ground or balance from a cessationist viewpoint. We agree with MacArthur that we are against the great many sects that promote prosperity and false gospels.

Here is the video response by Shane Idleman

A Pastor's Thoughts from John McArthur's Strange Fire Conference by Shane Idleman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iovoQ1Xh4NY

And her is his follow up message:

Another Response to John McArthur's Strange Fire Conference by Shane Idleman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey24xXyA1jA

Listened to both messages. This brother is very balanced. Both messages worth listening to.

My thoughts.

Bearmaster.

It is as pointless to plead against 'charismatic chaos' as the speaker puts it, as it is to plead against the excess in reformed circles. The balance is not to be found here as both sides are out on a limb.

The balance is to be found in holiness teaching and the speaker did not say anything about holiness. It is not just an 'add on' for either sides to consider. Their whole theology needs a reform and the answer is to be found in 1 Cor 13.

13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Perfect - helios means one thing in scripture and it is the subject of the whole of the books added together. Perfect is not the canon nor the end of all things. It is the state of perfection in this life. Paul shows us that it is for this life using the analogy of a child/man. Putting away childish things is meant to explain the partial becoming complete. Or looking through a darkened mirror to seeing properly.

So what he is saying is that, when the perfect state comes, the incomplete practise of the gift of knowledge and prophecy shall become fully operational as we will then be united in that perfection to the Saviour. Tongues cease anyway and are given a Greek verb that means this gift ceases in itself.

This is because they were for a sign for those who did not believe 1 Cor 14:22 that is to say the Jews at that time not for non Christians who happen to wander into a Christian service on a Sunday, pretty unlikely at that time and now. The sign was given at Pentecost but did continue for a time and Paul did not ban it but let it cease on its own but he did try to bring order to the crazy Corinthians who went overboard with the gift.

When Paul is speaking about looking through a mirror darkly, he is talking about the state before 2 Cor 3:18 where he says we behold the glory of God face to face and changed into His image which is the state of perfection, in this life or also known as entire sanctification.

So we see that neither camp is looking for the full restoration of man found in the true revivals of this doctrine.

What is good about this dispute over strange fire, is that I feel that it is a last ditch attempt to separate believers into opposite unbalanced camps by Satan, due to the coming revival of the true balanced theology of holiness teaching and therefore the revival we have been looking for.

Sister did you listen to the messages? The brother is talking about the two extremes between the Calvinist cessionust and the charismatic craziness. He is pleading for a middle road realizing their is truth in both camps.

I say to you gently sister you are using this thread as a platform to promote ES. That is not the topic here.

Bearmaster.

bear I thought it was obvious I had listened to it.

I think that sticking to the words that scripture uses is our safest bet. If Paul had meant love then why would he not say so. He used the word perfect which he used in other places. But actually baptism of the Spirit is love spread abroad in our hearts along with other things.

I had not seen it in that way before so thanks, it confirms what Paul was saying regarding encouraging the Corinthians to go on to His rest.

But the text under discussion cannot be used to establish that spiritual gifts such as tongues and prophesy have ceased.

If I were a cessionist, which I am not, I would be hard pressed to use 1 Cor.13:8-9 to establish the ceasing of sign gifts.

Bearmaster.

Brother, respectfully, 1 Cor. 13:8-13 is teaching that the perfect will occur when Christ returns. When Jesus returns and the church is in her perfect state then tongues, prophesy, and knowledge will pass away as well as the rest if the spiritual gifts for we will behold the perfect Christ. Even faith and hope that Paul mentions in 1 Cor. 13:13.will pass away as faith and hope are realized in Jesus. His love will remain as His visible wounds will be constant reminders of our redemption.

In 1 Cor.1:7 Paul tells the Corithians that they are not lacking in any gift as they are awaiting eagerly the revelation if Jesus Christ. Tbis presupposes that all if the spiritual gifts will be around until Jesus returns.

On Eph. 4:7-16 Paul writes that the gifts of apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, and evangelist will be in operation until the church attains the unity of the faith and grows in its knowkedge of the Son of God. Certainly something that will not happen until Christ returns.

Conclusion. All if the gifts if the Holy Spirit will be in operation until the return if Jesus.

Bearmaster.

Dear sister I am one of the few who do AGREE with you.

Bear.

Brother if you are going to reason that tongues, prophesy, and knowledge will be done away with when perfect move is realized thus side of glory. Then yiu will have to throw out 1 Cor. 1:7 and Eph.4:7-16. These verses imply that spiritual gifts will be around when Christ returns.

Also the question arises why the directives given in 1 Cor. 14 over the use of tongues and prophesy. To follow your reasoning one would suppose that the Corithians or anyone else had not been perfected in love.

Also in 1 Cor 14:1, Paul tells the Corithians to pursue love, but to desire earnestly spiritual gifts. Especially the gift of prophesy. Also in 1 Cor.14:39 Paul says desire earnestly to prophesy but do not forbid anyone to speak in tongues.

Brother something else comes to mind. Was Paul perfected in love. Because he says in 1 Cor.14:18 he says I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all.

But trying to be argumentative bro. But showing your position on perfect love begs some questions. Will look over the verses you posted. Must stand down now

Bear:)

Speaking in tongues today represents self glorification and self esteem. I don't believe this is within the context of the believer and the church. One should think of others more than themselves (phil 2:3). Prophesying is better than tongues, unless one interprets. Is this done in the churches? NOPE...most are all caught up in some form of "tongues" that seems more ecstatic and careless. No one interprets and if scripture is true, and we know it is...you shouldn't be speaking in tongues unless two more to interpret and if not you are to be silent. And if a non believer shows up and everyone speaks in tongues won't they think you are out of your minds? Why is this so ignored when people who claim to talk in tongues in the church and think its okay? The main point is ignored, there is no love and the pattern that is in scripture is not followed.

Lifeless instruments have distinct notes and sounds they have a meaning." And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?" 2 Cor 14:8

"So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air." Isn't this what goes on? Everyone speaking in the air with no meaning or understanding. And for the edifying of themselves. Your mind is unfruitful, I would rather speak intelligible words with understanding to instruct than to utter ten thousands words with no meaning.

"Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue." Shouldn't this be enough? Nope because to many covet and treat tongues as an idol and the "works and justification" in their relationship and position with God.

I used to speak in tongues in my early Christian walk and as time went on, God began to show me and convict me of this. I do believe that there was tongues and maybe there still is, but I do not believe that it is what is going on today was the same in NT. I have seen to many fellow believers get so worked up that they don't speak in "tongues", they see everyone else doing it and ask themselves if I am born again and why doesn't God give it to me? Don't you see that this sort of thinking is destructive to the believer? there is nothing edifying about it when others go away feeling cheated, unloved and confused.