The days of Noah

Jesus said the end would be as the days of Noah.

Noah saw so much sin. He even saw millions die.
The NT church sees much sin.
We must not forget we too may see millions die.
The question for us is will we be like Lot's wife?
We all talk of the collapse, are we going to miss it like she did. Something to think about for a believer. Do we really hope for Christ return for his bride or do we fear the collapse. It hit me the other day so I decided to post this.
Please respond.

Hi Roger,
This is a very very interesting end times scripture of which i have put up before.
If I ask any believer what the great tribulation is going to be like,they rightly say it is going to be the worst time ever to be on earth(the world wars were like a birthday party compares to the great trib)
However when Jesus was describing what it would be like before he comes,he gives two examples one Noah and one Lot.
He highlights that: they did marry(not Lot),they did eat,they did drink,they did buy and sell and then he highlighted the word "UNTIL"
The clear picture he painted for us is that everything is totally normal prior to him coming(the rapture)
We have sin like in Lots day and Noah's day but people were still doing the normal things of life eating drinking etc
until his people are taken.
Now here is the problem for some if everything is normal before he comes then these scriptures cannot be placed as happening just after the "Great tribulation"
At this stage usually people bring scriptures that take us away from "the Noah/Lot" scriptures because they cant fit the noah/lot scriptures into their timeline or completely change the subject by saying we have "tribulation now" look at Korea look at China.We only have one "Great tribulation" though but always have "tribulation". If that doesn't work they then try to say well the "Great Tribulation" wont be that bad which is contrary to what is clearly written.
I am sorry to take away from your excellent point though but God highlighted this to me and I am passing it on,
Yours Staff

Thanks! Iron sharpens iron

And since the 1940's a lot has changed. Current day wars happen during peace time, much like "by peace shall destroy many" in Daniel 8:25 - That's the "new policy" already at work. So smooth - has anyone noticed?

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

"When It Happens, It Will Happen Quickly: we must open our eyes and read our Bibles. Our media and our pastors are preaching ‘peace and safety’ to us, but destruction is coming. And, when it comes, it will be sudden."

http://www.omegashock.com/2014/01/13/when-it-happens-it-will-happen-quickly/

one of the comments: "The sleepers out there are too busy with their many iThingies to notice. Lots of blame should be put on the media, they tell us how wonderful things are. And, as you imply, the pastors are not doing their jobs."

I have to agree here, who is even talking about that at all? A minority of independents that have one distinction that also unites them: They are accountable to their LORD, the King of Kings, the highest power of Romans 13:1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers.

Great discussion on this important topic.

Hi Frank,
Again Jesus himself pointed out with two examples that before he comes the world will be at peace relatively: they did eat and drink and buy and sell.He's clearly not painting a picture of a time where the Anti Christ is in Charge of finances or a time that God is pouring out his wrath .It is clearly a time either before that occurs or a time after.Given those options and reading this scripture with the word "until" we can see that everything is normal "until"Gods people are taken out.
Also we see that Noah is saved by the Ark rising "above" the water helped by supernatural means and Lot is saved by walking "up" out of the valley helped by supernatural means namely the two angels.
Both judgements told about by Jesus are "the wrath of God"
and both judgements only happen when the people of God are taken out and happen immediately after that occurs.
The bible tells us that the period will not be like the world wars as they were of Man and Satan but this is Gods wrath war, famine,pestilence,water contamination etc a time that cannot be compared to world wars or to any other time.
Noah or Lot clearly as Jesus points out were not left in situ but were taken out before God judged.In fact the Angels pointed this out to Lot that Judgement couldn't happen to Sodom unless they were taken out first.
Gods wrath clearly effects everyone that is not of God some are eating, drinking,selling ,buying marrying then bring it on some might say.They certainly didnt say that in Sodom or Noah's day,
Remember the judgement God gave Water(Noah) and Fire(Lot) couldnt distinguish between Good and Bad people.Who ever was left got Judged.
Yours Staff

Hi Frank
I agree that both in Noah's and Lot's time they world and Sodom had come to a Zenith of Wickedness and Evil.It was only after they had reached the zenith that God Judged them,but one last thing had to happen before Judgement that was Gods people had to be taken out of the situation.The Judgement in both cases was I agree complete and didnt discriminate between good and evil.The wicked died and the righteous lived because the righteous were taken out of the place to be judged,
Yours staff

Roger, I have been meditating on the similar scripture as well. We had a sermon on how Noah lived during his time. I have done some research on how Lot lived in his time. We can learn a lot from these 2 men and their time to see how they lived and adopt the same for us as well. For example Noah condemned the world by his faith and reverence for God. While the people were growing violent and fighting with one another, he was living with reverence for God (Heb 11:7). The same is expected from us today as well.

Jesus did not tell us that there will be no tribulation by mentioning the time of Noah and Lot, he mentioned Noah and Lot to give us an example that the world when he comes will have no reverence for God and will be dwelling in their sins without any regret. Regarding marriage and giving in marriage is not a symbol of peace. It is a sign of people giving importance to present time rather than eternity. They will not be concerned about eternity values or judgment.

Hi Frank,
In those days except the days be cut short no one would survive not even the elect...Staff

Hi Sree,
Jesus in fact did say we would have tribulations except this is not tribulation but the"great tribulation" and no matter how anyone trys to twist these examples into making it the Great tribulation it cant be done.The great tribulation is a time where God pours out his wrath upon the Earth.
Jesus didnt say either that some places would be eating and drinking etc he was referring to the entire people.
The example was to tell us the state of the world sin wise I totally agree but then if you take that as fact you have to take the other things he was saying as a fact as well.
I think he was saying at least 4 things
1.The world will have no reverence for God and will be dwelling in sin without any regret
2.They were at ease and not expecting Judgement
3.The world is at ease and doing normal things and it inst during a time of Judgement
4That normal things happen"UNTIL" the day the day Gods people are taking out.He mentions "UNTIL" twice.

If the world was in a time of the "wrath" of God they would not be at ease and eating,selling,buying,marrying.
Famine would have limited eating
The water would have been poisoned
The Anti Christ would have control of buying and selling
The men would be at war and marrying would be limited and definitely wouldnt be a time of partying.
Also in 2008 and 2009 the world went through a minor financial crisis compares to "the great tribulation" and fear gripped the hearts of men even some believers.The time Jesus explains is not a time of fear.
If we dont take this scripture literally then we should apply any other examples in the same way.
I do believe people will be saved during the trib just not Lot and Noah type,
Urs Staff

Hi Frank,
Just thinking about the "still alive" scripture.
God is a God of Order and in that Scripture in context he is just describing the order in which people will be caught up to Christ
1.The dead will rise first
2 Those "still Alive" will rise to meet them
He is just describing the order of the rapture
Urs Staff

This morning I was talking to a friend and in it we mentioned how Lot had absorbed the mindset concerning morals from the prevailing culture. When this band of homos demanded access to the angels at Lot's house, he offered to them instead his virgin daughters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would like to wring that guy's neck! Opps! Too strong?? Maybe tieing a cement block onto his neck and throwing him into deep water would be more humane? Yet, God delivered Lot from that mess... but can't tell from the scriptures that he ever lived up to the expectations one would expect from one who was delivered from that cesspool of perversion.

Reckon there is a lesson to be learned from here?

Hi Ginnyrose,
I think their is a picture of the what we are like today in a way.We have Christians of two different standards.Both are saved but one by the skin of his teeth and the others like Noahs safety was never in doubt,
Staff,
P.S I feel like I might be part of the Lot Camp sometimes

Hi Frank,
It just describes the order we go up in the air whether it is second or third is important to our outlook on things I think.
Its easy to see the negative effects believing in a pre trib rapture may have but a post trib rapture has just as negative effects that are not spoken on SI too much,
Yours Staff

3.The world is at ease and doing normal things and it inst during a time of Judgement
4That normal things happen"UNTIL" the day the day Gods people are taking out.He mentions "UNTIL" twice.

Staff,

The point you are making in this thread is clearly a logical possibility. But is it what Jesus referring there? I do not think so. To me it is just a brilliant idea and not a revelation. When Jesus was tempted by satan in the wilderness, satan quoted scriptures to tempt him and Jesus also used scriptures to combat in return. We should always compare scripture with scripture to come to a conclusion. Comparing Luke 17 to Matthew 24, in which Jesus clearly mentioned in verse 29 that only after the tribulations the sign of son of man will appear. So by comparing scripture with another we have to restrict the scope of what Jesus meant by time of Noah and Lot.

I am not into this pre/post tribulation arguments. I just take scripture as it is without holding any personal view.

Yet, God delivered Lot from that mess... but can't tell from the scriptures that he ever lived up to the expectations one would expect from one who was delivered from that cesspool of perversion.

Reckon there is a lesson to be learned from here?

Sister Ginny,

The time of Lot and Noah were time of without any law or covenant. All God wanted from the men of those time is to live with a reverence of God. What caused Joseph to say no to Potiphar's wife? There was no command there on adultery but Joseph's reverence for God. Lot and Noah were not perfect compared to our standard or standard of law. But bible still calls them righteous in Hebrews 11. A righteous Lot's soul was tormented when he saw the unrighteousness in Sodom. He could no longer sit and watch it but he left the city into the city gate. God showed me through this that, am I willing to forsake all the unrighteousness in this present world and sit outside the gate? There is a verse in genesis in which the people Sodom address Lot as alien, which means Lot truly lived as an alien in that land without mixing with the traditions of the land. God expects the same from us to be aliens on this earth.

Hi Sree,
The reason Jesus gave two examples is to give a witness of "two".Jesus was comparing Scripture with Scripture.
First of all we have to look at what the scriptures clearly say and the things Jesus highlighted twice.
Noah and Lot were not present during the "wrath"
The wrath did not happen til they were not present.
The world was doing normal things
So Jesus did compare scripture with scripture.

Your comparison of 17 and 24 will be tainted by your trib view so it will not resolve anything.

Ive never came up with a brilliant idea in my life!so it must be revelation!
We could apply that logic to the cross and say its a brilliant idea and not take it at face value.You are really saying it is a coincidence that Noah was taken out before the wrath and Lot was taken out.Its a coincidence that they were saved supernaturally and its a coincidence that Jesus described both places as being sinful and in relative peace.
Jesus used one scripture in Gen and used another described later in Gen to show these few points.
To be fair you took out of the scripture of Lot and Noah issues like the "sinful nature that existed" and Frank took out similar issue of "sin being at its zenith" both true and deeper than what I took out of it,but you are saying I cant take out the 3 clear things that were mentioned and highlighted twice namely "until" "taken out before wrath" and "the world was at ease".Thats bigger than a double standard when it comes to exegesis dont you think?
Yours Staff

Hi Frank,
When whether we have a pre or post trib view may effect our regular church life in some way .The pre view is well documented.
The Post trib is not.Firstly post tribers never take into account that they might be wrong!They may preach bunker down,ride out the storm ,get ready have plenty of tins of beans in the cupboard type Christianity.
They may have a low opinion of the expanse of grace(its easy to loose your salvation)
They deliberately blur the lines between "tribulation" and "the great tribulation"They preach tribulation rather than the Gospel.
Where as tribulation is expected and beneficial to the growth of Christians the great tribulation is not about that.
They wont be ready themselves if they are wrong.(They wont be ready for a glorious end to the church age)
They have a little God a God that cant unite his church,a God that cant bring his church in line with Scripture
Yours Staff

Hi Frank
No agenda .You asked.....I answered
Yours Staff