The Need for Persecution

Greg has opened up a thread warning: of upcoming persecution coming on the American Church. But the American church is also in need of persecution.

When one looks at the American Church in her sin. Nothing short of persecution will purify her When one looks at the lack of unity in the American Church. Nothing short of persecution will unify her. There is a refining fire in persecution that burns off the dross of baggage that the church has collected.

In foreign nations where the church has experienced persecution. There is a radical simplicity of Jesus. God grant that we may find such a radical simplicity of Jesus when persecution comes to America.

Posted by blaine scogin

Lukewarm Christians will not be persecuted. Only those who live godly lives will be persecuted. The Lukewarm are in need of godliness. Persecution will follow those who live godly.

The Bible does not say that all those who are persecuted will live godly lives. It says, "All who live godly shall suffer persecution".

2Ti_3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

We should never prescribe persecution for one another. You don't have to prescribe it for those who are living godly.

Those who are not living for God will not be persecuted. They will be persecuting those who are living for God. Persecution will come more from religious people who are lukewarm than it will from the State.

Persecution is coming soon, from Religious Babylon.

Brother it is a given that those that live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. But God uses persecution in many ways. Persecution can refine the faith of a believer  It can simplify his faith in Christ. It can develop his perseverance. It can bring the hope of Christ into his life. And no doubt there are other ways God uses persecution in the life of a believer.

Persecution can also be judgment upon the church. 1st Peter tells us that judgment begins with the house of God. Peter was writing this in the context of persecution. As such God can use persecution to judge the church. If anything persecution can bring the church to repentance.

Because of the sin and worldliness of the American Church. God may use persecution to purify her. This is why I entitled to thread the need for persecution.

I could say more but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying.

Blaine

Hi Just-in. I agree that there are many Godly saints in every tribe and every tongue and every nation. Yet, the fact remains that we are not united. The high priestly prayer of Jesus in John 17 calls for us to be one as He and the Father are one so that the world will know that He was sent from the Father, we are called to be a witness to the world.

In Matt 24 Jesus says that the Gospel will be preached to all the world for a witness, and then the end shall come. No matter how many Godly saints there are around the world, we cannot say that we have been a witness to the world through our unity " so that the world may know." The persecution of the saints in the last days, worldwide, will bring us together as one, as we identify with each other and the Lord in the midst of our persecution. Then at long last we will be a witness to the world and then the end shall come..................bro Frank

The persecution of the saints in the last days, worldwide, will bring us together as one, as we identify with each other and the Lord in the midst of our persecution. Then at long last we will be a witness to the world and then the end shall come

Amen dear brother. What a glorious unity this will be.

Hi Bear and Appolus and Greg,

Thank you for your replies. I get what you are saying, however, I see a different source for our unity (not persecution) and I maintain that the biggest persecution of the Church is going to come from established "Christian" religions. It is going to smack everyone in the face and totally surprise them because everyone is being conditioned to think that the world is going to be their biggest persecutors. So, if we are going to plead and pray for persecution (to give us unity) because the Church "needs it", then I think we should understand a few things about what is coming. I was actually going to write something in Apollus' thread regarding the "Beginning of Sorrows", so I will write a bit of it here, now. I wanted to start in Genesis and go through the Bible and show how a "religious, self-righteous, self-dependent and proud spirit" has worked through men and persecuted and even killed the people (and prophets) of God. From Cain to King Saul, to the Pharisees who delivered up Jesus and slew Stephen. And during the last 2,000 years, we all know about the bloody trail that this religious and murderous spirit has left. Tomorrow or the next day, (I don't know, I am very busy these days), I will talk about why our dearly beloved Churches on the corners of many streets will engage in the persecution that is coming. It's all about the Life of Christ. If the cornerstone of our walk is the Resurrection of Jesus Christ so that He is our life (now, not some time in the future), then I will do my best to illustrate in many ways how modern Christendom has bypassed the Life of Christ. You will recognize most of these things and realize that it is this type of thinking that has kept us from unity (not the lack of persecution). Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life, and the Person of Jesus has largely been circumvented by established religion (Christian). I do appreciate that you think persecution will bring unity (no doubt it will have positive effects) but those who have not circumvented the Person of Jesus Christ, already have unity with one another. It is nigh impossible to have unity with someone who has bypassed Christ for religion. That's it for now, and hopefully another post will help explain what I mean.

Here are a few verses to help us remember some important things about persecution. Again, I appreciate your posts and your desire to see the Church walk in holiness, purity and unity. If I am off base in my thinking, I trust you will let me know. :-)

Matt 24:4-5,9 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Matt 24:10-11 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matt 22:2-6 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

Matt 23:34-35 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Luke 6:22-23 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Hi Just-in,

I have lost count on how many articles I have written about who exactly will persecute the saints in the end days. I wrote this piece in 2009 called " The Saul spirit is rising."

I think you will see that we are in agreement as is bro Greg..........bro Frank

Brother,

I remember that, now. I know we are in agreement (including Bear and Greg), perhaps just showing different facets of the same thing. Yes, the Saul spirit is displayed from Genesis to Revelation.

Blessings to you all, today.

When one looks at the American Church in her sin. Nothing short of persecution will purify her When one looks at the lack of unity in the American Church. Nothing short of persecution will unify her.

Brother Jimmy, Blaine said the above quote. I believe that what is being said here is that the "true body of Christ' the "true believers" are right now mingled with all professing believers. There is a compromised mix of false and true christians. Christians that believe america is christian and a godly nation and christians who serve in the kingdom of God and believe all nations on the earth are not christian in the New Covenant. Political christianity that loves and serves the world is not true Christianity 1 John 2, James 4:4. The "normal" healthy amount of persecution that will come from the world towards true believers will be able to separate them away from this compromise. In this way yes persecution is good, and greatly needed.

Sadly severe persecution will come with martyrdom and other great sufferings and torture. Such things we do not covet for ourselves necessarily or others. But to experience some antagonism, ridicule, scorn, prison and other things for the gospel is to be expected and has happened in "every" generation amongst true believers.

Of course the larger religious groups did not experience these pressures because in many cases they were the ones that were persecuting the remnant smaller true groups of Christians that would not compromise their Lord.

We serve in a lineage of martyrs and saints that had their confession of Christ not only in words but blood. So let us not shrink back from following such in our culture.

The one's that will want all the creature comforts and benefits from this age will in the end not suffer the saying "no" to all the American World has to offer. Such I believe in the end will even be ones who will cast in the lot of others who are not contributors to the culture of America and by their lifestyles are useless one's that care more about heaven then the present age. May we be found amongst the right group and with the right allegiance to the Lamb of God alone.

Persecution is not a cleansing agent for the church, nor does it bring unity. The blood of Jesus alone cleanses us from all sin. The Holy Spirit alone brings unity.

When blaine or myself used the word cleansing I believe we mean false brethren and "flakes" as you mentioned. Which I would like to say there are more then a few. We would be not shocked if 80% of professed Christians in North America would deny the Lord when pressures come or to side with a religious church that persecutes true brethren.

Ravenhill said 5% of americans could be truly born again. Billy Graham said 8%. Many go to church but are not the Church during the week.

Jimmy when people say they pray for peace they are in essence praying for the preservation of the American way of life. They are wanting to maintain the status quo.

Blaine

Brother if I may say gently you are not aware of the times we are in. I lead a prayer call where we pray for the persecuted. I read the summaries of various reports that speak of the rise if persecution on a global level.

Jimmy I sense you are 30, have a great job, and newly married. Of course you want peace.. I am twice your age and have seen the acceleration of evil in a generation you cannot fathom. We are in Mat. 24 and the church denies it.

This is what Greg and others are trying to warn about. There is s wave of coming persecution and we want to be on the high ground of Jesus.

Brother please do.not be one if those who cry peace and safety then the birth pangs of destruction come upon you. Watch for the wave.

Blaine

So such begs the question, why do we say that it is "needed," and why do some of you in fact pray for it to happen, when in reality, persecution doesn't truly accomplish what you seem to think it does?

Brother, I personally do not pray for persecution but I do pray for Christians , including myself, to be active in boldly witnessing for Jesus Christ. One reason why do not suffer any persecution is that we are not witnessing, not sharing the exclusivity of the Son of God and a changed life He produces if we are a disciple of His.

I believe persecution accomplishes true unity of true brethren, a reverence of the things of God, a greater dependence on the Lord, love for enemies, the spreading of the Gospel more through the witness of the suffering of saints. Along with many other things.

The difference of North Americans that can almost use bibles as toilet paper towards those in other countries where 1 page of the Scriptures is precious is a vast contrast. We do not love the word of God as we ought and therefore do not love the God of the word. We live our lives and then build God into them. The underground believers spend hours in meetings and in prayer with the Lord.

If persecution can tear away from us all our toys, pleasures and Western comforts that are keeping us from a vibrancy of Christianity in the West then it will be a good thing and in God's timing and way will even be a blessing.

I know the underground Church in China do not pray for all our material blessings, they actually pray for us that we would forsake them and overcome in such a bad environment.

It's saying that God causing it to rain is preferable to it not raining. We are to strive for peace wherever possible, says Hebrews. Jeremiah said we are to pray for the prosperity of the nations in which we find ourselves exiled. Peace is a precious gift from God. We should seek it like we ask for rain during droughts.

Agreed brother. But if peace also includes not sharing the Gospel of the Son of God with a lost and dying world then we do not want that type of peace. When we are doing the work of the kingdom we will come into opposition with the kingdom of the world.

I'm very well aware persecution is coming to America, and have long taught such. I've also had the opportunity to sit down with pastors of very large churches over coffee and dinner, and voice my concern that many are not doing enough to prepare the church for the crunch that is coming. Sometimes I even wake up in the middle of the night and write down ideas about what things might be like for the future generation of Christians in America. I promise, my notes aren't pie.

Amen brother thank you for sharing your heart. In the end I believe our dear persecuted brothers and sisters in the world in different countries unsettle all of us and they should. They have something more vital then we do.

I am thankful to hear your heart that we are not ready and need to practically change things to measure. I ask the Lord constantly in my life what areas I need to have changed and there is still much needed!

There is a fine line between strongly warning the body of Christ of coming persecution and a confusion that we are seeking after persecution. I simply believe the Lord has shown me persecution is coming to the West and warning the Church to prepare. That is the mercy of God to have warnings given.

Jimmy my apologies about your age etc. But a number of young adult evangelicals I have interacted with only think of the hear and now. The idea a persecuted church let alone persecution coming to America us foreign to them. A message that many American believers do not want to hear.

Persecution does have a purifying aspect to it. The first chapter of Peter indicates this. The church in America needs purifying. Persecution will be that agent God uses to purify the church. To call forth a holy bride.

Blaine

Our faith had to be reintroduced to the people of that nation many years later. The same goes with places like Turkey, who once had large Christian populations. But Islamic radicals effectively ran out all the Christians, and killed the rest who stayed. The church of Ephesus became nothing in that land because of the persecution.

I am not trying to be semantic with words. But "our faith" if you mean the American Gospel is something we need to bring to light. America has effectively spread a gospel with democracy by-in large in the bigger sense. They say if you believe our gospel you can be "like us". Also it is a mis-nomer that America is the only mission sending church in the world. South Korea for many years has sent out more missionaries then america. And in especially the last 50 years we have to gauge the effectiveness at all of missions from america with very few exclusions.

Right now America is the greatest exporter of the false gospel that is raping the body of Christ world-wide. It is a disease and God will judge and stop this for the love of His precious bride.

Many nations are sending missionaries already back to america to send a true gospel without nationalism and materialism. The persecution of the church in those other countries has kept some of the gospel witness pure.

brethren in the principles book make an argument that religious liberty has actually catered to the declension of true gospel proclamation in part and especially the rise and ascendency of false cults and false gospels that have spread like a cancer world-wide: http://img.gospelfellowships.net/pdf/principle23.pdf

Perhaps not everything is like it seems.

Of course, other nations have been doing this as well. But, let us remember, America has definitely served as the platform for which a large number of missionaries have been launched.

Thank you brother Jimmy for your charitable comments and thoughts. I agree with some of the balance you are bringing. Thank you brother.

Acts 8:1
And on that day a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the region of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 8:4
Therefore those who have been scattered went about preaching the word.

Acts 11:19·20
So then those were scattered because of the persecution that occurred in connection with Stephen made their way to Phoenicia and Cyprus and Antioch speaking the word to no one except Jews alone. But there were some of them, men of Cyprus and Cyrene that came to Antioch and began speaking to the Greeks also preaching the Lord Jesus.

Phil. 1:12·14
Now I want you to know, brethren, that my circumstances have turned out for the greater progress of the gospel, so that my imprisonment and the cause of Christ has become well known throughout the whole praetorian guard and to everyone else, and that most of the brethren trusting in the Lord because of my imprisonment have far more courage to speak the word of God without fear.

In the above verses the gospel spread under conditions of persecution.it was not when times were peaceful the gospel make gains.but it was when the church was under persecution. Current history also documents this.

In 1949 Mao kicked out the missionaries in China. Prior to that time the gospel had only made normal gains in China. Many were saying that Christianity has been defeated by the Communist. When Nixon normalized our relations with China. There was found to be a vibrant house church movement numbering in the millions. The gospel had flourished under persecution. Chinese house church leaders said the best thing Mao did was to kick out the Western missionaries. Thus the Chinese church grew.

A more recent example is Iran. In 1979 there were less than 500 believers in Iran. This was when Iran had relations with the West. In 1979 the Islamic Revolution occurred in Iran. Christians were persecuted. Many thought that Islam had triumphed in Persia. Many thoughts that the crescent moon have triumphed. But in the midst of the Islamic Revolution a gospel revolution was taking place. In the midst of persecution and martyrdom the gospel was going forth through out Persia. Today there are upwards of 100,000 to1,000,000 believers in Iran.

It can be concluded that the gospel thrive best under persecution.

Blaine Scogin