The rise of a new Judaism

It has been my observation that people gravitate toward religious systems with rules for them to live by. And they want to judge others by those same rules, feeding their pride with knowing they are doing better by the rules than others.

All to keep themselves safely on a personal throne, away from the scrutiny of the Father. God can keep busy with those others, while I can do what I want without His interference. A very old model of rebellion and invisible hypocrisy, "new" Judaizers but an ancient practice.

How different a perspective from the psalmist who bathed the 119th with pure love as he extols the virtue of the Law of God.

Righteousness is loved by the Father, expected of His servants, and only proceeds from a humble heart. We have a clear picture, goes by the name Jesus...

Neil i really appreciated what you posted here it is a good reminder that the things we say do matter. today especially it matters how we say things.

i found what you posted about Christmas interesting. its funny to me though how many Christians say that we have no need to take part in the feast/festivals of the old testament but they take part in the tradition of Christmas every year and Easter too. Neither of which we are instructed to keep. we are told to break bread together in remembrance of Jesus but that is it.

blaine thanks for clarifying your post. you have such a big heart and am glad that you shared this info as i had no idea these things were happening. its good to know and good to know how to pray for others as well.

rdg

Blaine you're right when you said that "there are some", and with that I very much agree with you. But, there is also some really good edifying teaching in regards to a Hebraic view of the scriptures including Rabinnic teaching methods and the evolving of them during the Intertestamental periods leading into the 1st & 2nd Century Early Church. The late Dr. Dwight Pryor is one I can that I highly recommend. But to those that attempt to create proselytes out of Christians, beware.

Russ

We once had a messianic guest preacher in our fellowship.
He commended Gentile believers to keep the sabbath and keep the other Jewish fiests. He also disdained the fact that the New Testament was written in Greek. Further he said that that the Old and New Testament should never be separated but seen as one covenant.

I openly but courteously challenged him about that in a Q&A session. He evaded my questions.

Some Gentile Christians embrace these ideas and we have some in our fellowship who keep the sabbath and abstain from non-kosher foods. Some Gentile believers have left our fellowship because we were not embracing Jewish customs. There seems to be an inward tendency in many Gentile believers to try to win acceptance by the Jews.

Paul did not recommend the Jews to abandon the law they were born under. Neither did he ask Gentile believers to follow the law that was fulfilled in Christ. We are no longer under the law but under grace.

To the carnal religious person Jew or Gentile grace is offensive and the law is attractive.

Jesus did not only die for our sins but also in order to break down the middle wall of partition and join Jewish and Gentile believers into one flock, not two, as some teach.

These teachings actually are gaining momentum and it is good that Bearmaster made us reminded us of that.

Hi brother Bear.

very good thoughts.

I would highly recommend this sermon to all :

Beware Of Dogs by David Wilkerson

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3569&commentView=itemComments

Description: Out of the 3rd Chapter in Philipians, Wilkerson preaches on false teachers and preachers in society today. This is another classic Wilkerson; sounding the alarm, message for the church. For those that defend the gospel, this is a must hear message

Hi narrowpath,

I've experienced something similar to you as well where a handful of different messianic preachers came and basically taught that we still have to keep the feasts and such. This was also something I observed during a trip I took to Israel about two years ago with a Korean tour group. There is definitely a growing trend, at least in the Korean side of things, of people overspiritualizing anything and anyone that is Jewish or has something to do with Israel. Prayer shawls, shofars, Hebrew words, or even messianic preachers are seen as somehow "more spiritual" and also this idea that if you give money toward Israel that it is somehow more pleasing in God's eyes than other things and that He will bless you financially or "be more inclined" to answer your prayers if you do. Now I love the Jewish people and the nation of Israel and firmly believe that the Lord is not done with them and has great things planned for them, but still, in my understanding, we are all equal in the eyes of God, all purchased by the same precious blood, all regenerated by the same Holy Spirit, all made members of the same household, all subjected to the same Word and that there is no difference or preference in His eyes to how one worships (as long as it is biblical) or who one ministers to, for God loves all His people, Jews and Gentiles, for we are all His creation, no one above or superior to the other.

"The center of redemptive history its not Moses and the nation of Israel." - bearmaster

More on that at the following link.

WATCH IT NOW!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_89Ykl6F4Tc

Romans 2:28,29

I had written this yesterday but didn't share it because I wanted to look it over etc. again and it's not a response to recent posts in this thread because I already had typed out most of it yesterday. I was already going to share it this morning anyway. I've heard about the Messianic movement and the good things they have brought as well as things that many perceive as not so good. I likely need to study more about the particular ins and outs and there have been good points made here in this discussion. I went to a service in a Messianic synagogue once and came away edified and from time to time I go to a local Reformed synagogue here so as to be able to better understand Judaism and those involved in it. I figured if I'm going to discuss Judaism and Christianity with folks and perhaps Jewish people then I figured I at least need to know more about what Judaism is about. I've made some friends there and I'm glad I have attended even though it's a non Christian environment I find myself in when I'm there. The original poster here has made some very good points that need to be remembered. Yet one point that stuck out to me was the statement that this Messianic movement sees Israel as the center of redemptive history. I know it might or can be said that the human heart and the Spirit within the hearts of believers is the center of redemptive history. That is very true to a large degree especially because the Spirit dwells within because of one's faith in the cross. And believers in Christ became part of a worldwide family including all the nations. Yet the body of Christ being worldwide at this point has been uded throgout history and today to diminish the role of Israel which I still see as central in many importsant respects. It was prophesied the Messiah would come to Israel, He came and made His appearance to Israel before His resurrection and ascension so where might His second coming take place? In my opinion, which I believe is Biblical, when He returns it will be to the same nation He left so it's hard to see how the land of Israel does not have a very central place in redemptive history. The nation Christ came to and the nation He will return to has got to be overwhelmingly important. Meanwhile, I have read the points the original poster made and am not disregarding them and thanks for sharing them.

Thank you.

There has been some very interesting points brought up in this discussion to date and so many areas to be aware of.

Where would be English speaking Gentile believers be today without the understanding of the Hebrew and the Greek, we certainly would not understand the Agape Love of God.

As found in the Letters to the 7 Churches there were many praiseworthy things but also many things that Jesus saw as a major concern.

There is a need for much balance in the Churches today and even so in our lives.

The early Gentiles that were accepted into the Jewish Christ believing Church Rejoiced in that there was only a few restrictions placed on them by the Church of believing Jews and that was as follows.

Act_15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act_15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Act_21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Act 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
Act 15:31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

How simple and yet liberating for the Gentile believers that came into the Church of Christ.

Freedom and Liberty.

As to the Hebraic focus coming into the Churches today I myself have been richly blessed as the Hebraic focus has been on Jesus Christ and His fulfilment in the Feasts.

There is much to learn and much to celebrate in the Hebrew as much as the Greek, Shane Willard as well as Joseph Prince have revealed much truth and much visual picture of the Feasts and of Hebrew Paleo Pictures as well as Dr Frank Seekins.

There is so much that the Churches can learn today from the Hebraic perspective, but sadly as some have of you have mentioned there are those that become headstrong and elitest as if they are more advanced or scholarly or even more Godly that others, this is of course great sadness.

Once we force others to comply to a system of any kind it has then become pharassitical in a sense.

Colossians speaks well as follows

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

May we all be Humbled in our walk in Christ and not see ourselves as any higher or more important than any other member in the body of Christ.

May all the Hebraic learning and celebrating of the Feasts bring us much closer to Jesus and may they reveal more of His fulfilment.

There is much that can be learned from celebrating the Feasts, they are not all just focused on a sacrifice.

There is the searching of ones heart, ones attitude, ones home, ones life.

There is the ordained days of Repentance, prayer, fasting, the Focus on Jesus, the rejoicing, the emptying of ones own guilt.

There are many in the Church today that are carrying around so much pain, so much guilt, so much anger, so much hurt.

The Nation of Israel had an appointed Day of Atonement where the whole nations guilt and sin was declared and released, cleansing was given and they saw their sin depart from them after the laying on of hands on the goat.

We have much more, we have Jesus blood and each day we can be set free from all of the pain and guilt, yet many do not see this.

Shane Willard has done an amazing video on the Day of Atonement with all the Hebraic mindset, please watch, you will see the Hebraic focus as a great blessing to the Church of today.

May we have freedom and walk in the Truth of Gods Word.

Jesus is Coming and every eye will see Him.

Budgie I really echo your statement as also being also a source of great blessing in my life:

"As to the Hebraic focus coming into the Churches today I myself have been richly blessed as the Hebraic focus has been on Jesus Christ and His fulfilment in the Feasts.”

Not so much for me in the celebrating of them, not to say that isn’t also a blessing, but more specifically the tying in both the Old Cov to the New in God’s timing of things. For example 50 days passed between the giving of the Torah on Sinai (Shavuot), which Jews celebrate to this day and 50 days passed from Jesus’s accession until the giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in Acts. Unrelated to the feasts, another awesome tie between old and new is 3000 dying after Moses came down from the mountain and found many of them worshipping the golden calf, and in the new 3000 were raised from the dead at Pentecost Acts 2:41. And there are many more great things to learn by studying things from not only a Greek mindset but also from the Hebraic one (Rabbinic teaching methods, acrostics, the happenings during the intertestamental period leading up to Christ, during, after, etc.)

Bless you,

Russ

Hi Blaine,

What I mean is that Jesus was raised Jewish in a Jewish culture was taught like a Jew and then as we see Him in the New Cov He then taught folks like a Jew. So for me, studying how Jewish thought was back then adds a real richness to Christ's words. I want to make myself clear, I don't condone, as I alluded to in my first post putting followers of Christ under the mosaic code. Think of it this way, in the words of Christ:
Matt 5:17

" 17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."

Christ is saying He came not to abolish Torah(Law), but rather to make it fuller in meaning, and then Jesus goes right into a discourse of the letter of the law(old cov) vs. the spirit of the law(new cov) which give the old letter a much fuller meaning under the spirit.

Russ

Greetings Blaine

you wrote:But as expressed in my previous post celebrating those these days can lead one into slavery and bondage to the Mosaic code.

Blaine

____________________

I agree with you on this brother. We need look no further then JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF. Feast and celebrations are traditions and the Bible tells us that the traditions of men nullifies the WORD of GOD.

Thank you for sharing this and for standing firm on the truth.

God bless
mj

Hi rnieman,

Although I agree with your reasoning, there are certain historical and present day realities that need to be more deeply considered if one is to really apply the argument "Jesus was Jewish so we need to know Jewish culture." It appears to make total sense to look to today's Jewish people and culture to see what Jewish people, including Jesus was like back then. BUT, it is clear that MUCH has changed from the Judaism of Jesus's time to the Judaism of today. For one, there is no longer a temple or a priesthood that is operative today. There are also countless Mishnah (commentary written by men) to which a countless number of different sects have developed over time (far more than just Pharisee vs Sadducee) and has become a source of contention between the different sects. One only need visit Israel and observe the myriad of different sects (particularly the the orthodox ones) to get a better idea. There are also untold numbers of Jewish myths and fables that have developed along the way that are not to be found in the Bible but have merely been added on as part of Rabbinic tradition. So based on this present day reality where there are so many vastly different "flavors" of Judaism, which one will you pick to use as a "looking glass" into the past of what Jesus must have been like? I think this is actually quite an impossible task because the road has deviated and split and been "remade" several times throughout history and I don't think we were meant to approach it this way. Now, although I find value and importance in trying to put things into historical context, I think the means by which it is done and also the potential applications drawn from it must be done with much care and caution, because modern day examples are just that, modern day examples, not the replica of the past.

Now, moving on slightly from this point, in regards to the feasts, the question is not even about did Jesus abolish or fulfill the Law and whatever ambiguity is to be found in that statement, but it is made quite clear throughout scripture as well as church history and tradition that followed that indicates that we are no longer bound to the feasts just as much as we are no longer bound to food laws. These things of the Old Covenant were as the author of Hebrews said merely a SHADOW, while Jesus himself IS THE FULFILLMENT (finished and completed in Him). There is nothing in scripture to indicate that it is somehow "more pleasing to God" to keep the feasts or abstain from certain foods or else the apostles failed in instructing the church (in Acts) and laying down what one would think to be such a "crucial" detail to be laid out for church tradition that would follow. I actually find the argument "it is more pleasing to God" or "it will help you relate better with Jesus because He was Jewish" to be quite deceiving, thinking to put us back in bondage through "good intentions" which might "sound" good and noble and pious, but is not according to scripture and church tradition and history which therefore makes it mere presumption and full of the wisdom of man and not of God. And that's the crazy thing about these last days that we need to watch out for. Deception is not called deception because it is easy to spot. They are not called wolves in sheep's clothing for no reason. It is because they will come with flattering words and have an "appearance of godliness" and even seem to know scripture and even say "Jesus is the Christ" and yet be themselves deceived and go on deceiving others. We must know the Word and what it says and really stand firm in these last days and measure ALL things through THIS "looking glass" lest our own eyes deceive us and lead us down a "well meaning" road of presumption and end up receiving the sorrows that are to be found at the end of it.

Indeed we seev that Jesus has obtained more excellent ministry by being the mediator of a better covenant built on better promises (Heb.8:6). One of His promises is He will write His laws on our hearts and minds (Heb.8:10). Thus by His Spirit we can.live out the fulfillment of the law as He did (Rom.8:4). This is why I keep saying we are governed by the Holy Spirit and not by the Mosaic law (Gal.5:18).

--------

AMEN and AMEN!

Dear brother,
You are so right in sounding this alarm. Out here in New England, there are folks in evangelical circles, who are becoming highly regarded, whose ministry is to preach the 'Hebraic Roots of Christianity'. Now, that all sounds well and good, until you absorb some more of said 'roots'. I noticed, there was very little said of Jesus, the Lamb of God, Himself. There is a whole lot of describing the types and shadows in the Old Testament and how Jesus fulfilled them all. And there it stops. Nothing of His present work of saving human beings from their sin.
And yes, I've seen apparently solid believers being convinced to put up booths in their backyard for Succoth! [?sp] Shofar-blowing ministries, complete with prayer cloths are now spring up hither, thither and yon.
I truly do not understand how understanding present-day Jewish culture, helps my submission to the Lord. It all just reeks of 'knowing men after the flesh'. Very subtle and very real bringing men and women into bondage, trying to fulfill the Law that could only be fulfilled by that perfect Man, Jesus of Nazareth.
The Lord is building for Himself a spiritual body, made up of saved, sanctified saints from all over the world, regardless of their ethnicity and geography.

May the Lord continue to help us see what is really real.

I find that understanding the Jewish faith as revealed in the OT books, including the law is an excellent schoolmaster in helping me understand Jesus' sacrifice.

One day I was kind of ticked off with Pauls' redundancy in his writings: why did he have to repeat himself so often, reminding people about Jesus' sacrifice? I know it, but why keep repeating it? His writings became a bore.

The Holy Spirit then led me to study the law as given in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. As I read, studied this - working to understand life as it should have been lived in that context when enlightenment came to me - I understand exactly what Paul was writing about!

'Twas awesome!

The law indeed is an excellent schoolmaster in teaching one the finer points of God, his son's sacrifice, his attributes, his mind and his glory. The NT is written primarily to the Jewish people and when it is understood as such we do well to try to understand the context in which it is written. And..you know what? you do not need any commentator to help you in this learning process. :-) Comparing scripture with scripture...beautiful!

My experience...

just-in, so you ignore the millenium prophecies? Why is that?

Because the prophets must be ignored in order to understand Jesus Christ?

And that question comes from a member of the non-Hebrew-Root's-corner.

You think that everyone that reads the prophets is in the Judaism movement? Oh dear.

This is the Scripture that comes to my mind,when thinking on this subject.
It is what God spoke down from heaven to the disciples, (learners) ...
Peter and James and John,when Jesus took them 'up into an high mountain.'

To begin with,Mark 1:1, Jesus says unto them,'Verily I say unto you,There be some of Them that stand here,who shall not taste of death,til they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

( isn't that a strange thing to say,before
He takes them up on this high mountain to show them something,...it must of been a statement of great importance.)
But what did He mean?

I believe He is saying,that they,and we,...that there is a taste of death to
self,...that we cannot die to self until we see the kingdom coming with power to help.....the power of His Grace,...the power of The King,drawing us to His Way / will.

Then Jesus takes them up into this high mountain,..(v.4)and there appeared unto them Elijah with Moses;and they were talking with Jesus.
(V.5),And Peter began to talk about making three tabernacles,..one for
Jesus,one for Moses,and one for Elijah.(paraphraseing)

(V.7),And there was a cloud that overshadowed them;and a voice that came out of the cloud,saying,This is my beloved Son;hear ye him.
(And suddenly as they looked round about they saw no man any more
except Jesus only with themselves.

When we come into His Kingdom,...His Kingdom within us,The Holy Spirit within,..we are to be led by The King over that Kingdom....(hear ye Him)

Lovingly ,
elizabeth

Hi tbsounde2,

I think you miss understood me, I not talking about today's Jewish culture but rather the Jewish culture during the intertestamental period and during Jesus's ministry and shortly after( 1st and 2nd century. For example, the Maccabean Revolt during the 160's BC is one of the things that led to an era of great Jewish national pride. This is many other events lead into the New Cov and give us the back drop of the culture at the time of Christ, like you might see in a study bible. And I agree that no one is bound to celebrate feasts, I see value in celebrating them as a gentile(never have though myself) but I also see the danger of developing a elitist spirit. Hope that clarifies

Russ

Bro.Bear,
Oh how I appreciated your comments on this ,...comparing the old
Testament with this article.....Things I had not noticed.
What a blessing to have communion ( commune) with you all.

Blessings,
elizabeth

God chose Israel as His people for the purpose of revealing Himself and His plan of redemption to the world. So, the foundations of Christianity were on the context of the Hebrew culture. So, there is benefit to understanding the culture so that we can more rightly interpret scripture. According to Paul in Romans they were cut off that we might be grafted in, but there is coming a time when they will return and receive the very saviour they were chosen to reveal but rejected instead. In that sense, Christianity had Hebrew roots.

The Hebrew roots movement goes far beyond this and, in my opinion, seeks to do many of the same things that Paul warned against in Galatians. I have seen some in this movement that seek to write all of Paul's writing out of the Canon as they begin to see his teachings as opposed to their own. They seem to me to be modern day Judaisers who seek to bring back a bondage to the law.

Very well put Blaine!!!

As a christian I believe in Israel from the fact of the bible as most of it was written by Jews and we have a Jewish Messiah. Jesus is returning to Israel not New York as the Jehovahs witnesses say.
I came to a knowledge of Israel through reading Ezekial and Jeremiah as I could not explain the temple in the last chapters.
I decry People who support Israel but do not support saving Jewish People or who have fallen into aberrant Jewish theology. I would agree that some Jewish Groups are going almost into Interfaith theology but that should not decry what we read from the bible alas should the false keep us from the true. Should we not have a love of Israel.
I believe in the millennial reign of Christ. If you believe in realities such as Revival the bible states that All Israel shall be saved Romans 11.
Jesus is essentially Jewish, we have a Jewish messiah who died for our sins and rose from the dead and if we have any other we have a false Jesus. As I do not like to battle against the many jesus's of peoples imaginations even my own. I would rather deal with the real Jesus who has a real people.
Phil Fernandes states that if we have the wrong theology we experience the wrong experience of Jesus.

I would agree there are many wacky Jewish christian groups but there are so many Wacky Christian groups aswell. I have stories.

Works theology is so prevalent in all Protestant Groups not only messianic ones.

Are Bible is more than simply the New testament alot of people do not believe in a litural adam and eve or that God created the world in seven litural days. I Do and I believe in a litural Hell. Are bible is a historical book and matches the world that we live in. There are no transitional fossils still around, yet there is massive amounts of archaolocial evidence for the existence of different events in scripture. One doctrine effects different doctrines if there is not seven days of creation, then things like Adam and Eve, sin are real myths then Jesus had no reason to die.
We can make up a Jesus in our own imagination but preferably we have to meet the real Jewish Messiah one day.
We have to believe that God is as detailed about the past as he is the future and when the bible says that there will be a millennial reign of Christ. I believe it and I believe it based on the evidence from scipture as I did not believe in this doctrine when I was younger I was convinced not by any teaching but simply reading scipture.

The AntiChrist as it says in Daniel is going to sign a peace treaty with Israel and there are many unfufilled events such as the rebuilding of the Jewish temple yet to be fufilled by scipture including the falling of Damascus.

How can we not love Jesus but despise his people. In Romans it says that they were blinded so that you may have salvation and how much more joy when they are saved. There is no redemptive history without the Jewish people as the new testament was written by Jewish apostles in a jewish context. It is also the same with the church how can we despise Jesus but hate the church. I know that many Jewish people who do not believe in Jesus are going to Hell and so many Gentiles they are going to everlasting torment. If you have ever evangelised the Jewish community in London like I have they are the most hardest people on earth to talk to as they have an entire history of christians persecuting them calling them Christ killers and it is a miracle if they get saved. In Israel the orthodox jews persecute the ordinary Christians. To me it is even a miracle one is saved as I go to a church in Golders Green and we have not seen any Orthodox Jews saved as they rip up your tracts and spit on you, the whole community will despise the person that you have evangelised to if you go and even talk to an Orthodox Jew.
In short if you do not worship a Jewish Messiah who do you worship is it not idolotry to worship someone different?

I would agree there is a alot of wacky people who are into Israel and slowly creeping into the Interfaith lines but I would not despise those for the ones who truly believe in Israel, Unfortunatly for this post it would take me to long to back up every point with scriptural evidence which i would want to do.

Dom

"In short if you do not worship a Jewish Messiah who do you worship is it not idolotry to worship someone different?"

I hear you. i go one step further: If you are not a born-again Jew, you are not a Christian.

Bless you brother, you do not have the problems almost all Americans have. God chose Israel, and always will choose Israel, not America. Yes I know i'm mixing natural with spiritual here, and I do it on purpose. Everything has been taken out of context in the modern American church, and that's part of her dilemma.

We are truly a strange people
Jesus was a jewish man whom god sent to a jewish nation
He fulfilled all of the jewish customs and fulfilled the jewish prophecies
Was the new covenant sacrifice for the jewish church of christ
We the gentiles were grafted into that jewish olive tree and were given freedom in christ
We are happy to use the jewish analogy of the marriage for ourselves yet have a fear in celebrating anything jewish in the bible
There is so much we can learn from the scriptures and the feasts
I am not talking aabout bondage nor trying to be a jew
It is simply to understand
To celebrate
To rejoice
To see more of gods eternal plan
To see the fulfillment of christ
Many say that they are free and do not need to celebrate anything jewish
Instead of celebrating anything that is in scripture they choose to do the following

Celebrate christmas on a day and month that has nothing to do with the birth of jesus
Celebrate santa
Put up a pagan tree with all of its pagan idols
Celebrate halloween
Celebrate easter on a pagan day of the calendar different to the day and month in scripture
Celebrate hot cross buns and fertility eggs
Jesus was dead and buried 3days and 3nights as scripture declares
Yet we celebrate not those 3 days and nights
Where did the name easter come from
I have said all of the above to highlight that we say we are free but instead of celebrating what is clearly in scripture we are more happier to celebrate paganist practices
We have an excuse for our practices
Is it better to ptactice what is in scripture or what is in the world
Theologans study scripture so as to understand more of the hidden truths and to find true doctrine
Yet today there are so many differences within the churches
I think we have all gone off the path at various times
If what we do brings us closer to jesus
Brings us to repentance
Makes us humble and more loving
Makes us want to walk in christs gift of righteousness then it is good
Paul did not want us to convert to jews but to rejoice in the liberty of christ
Jesus is coming back for those who keep his commandments and that have the testimony of jesus christ
Paul collected gifts from the gentiles so as to help the church of jews that were suffering
We say we have freedom fom jewish practices
Yet we use the jewish command of tithing where is the freedom
What freedom would we have in the church today if we just obeyed pauls commands
Do not commit sexual immorality
Do not eat meat strangled or offered to idil sacrifice
Do not drink blood
The moment people are saved they are commanded to tithe and the church is happy to burden its members by applying for massive loans
Where is the faith in that
There is not one command in scripture for us to build a building and call it a church
There are preople suffering every day
Dieing in the streets
People in need of love and acceptance
Children with no meal
People living in gutters and we are content with building massive structures with massive debt
These will all be destroyed when the new heaven and earth are created
May we all trust in jesus
Live and walk in his love
Invest our time and money into eternal heavenly treasure
The souls of men women and children
Let us celebrate and rejoice in a life that is godly and that brings honor togod

Savannah- thank you for the link! I listened, and I think it's one of the first sermons I have heard that teach the way I have understood.
Steve Gregg on www.thenarrowpath.com also has a more in depth lecture on the subject under Topical Lectures- What about Israel?

Whenever I start to think I know something, I get something that shakes me down to the place of knowing nothing.

Art Katz says some good things- I find it so difficult to accept the view that there will be Levites performing priestly duties in the new temple in the Millennial reign, which is his view. He draws from Ez 40. The idea is so new to me that I don't know what to think.

"Just-in"
- I tend to interpret scripture much like you described earlier in this thread with regards to Israel. I got that from reading scripture, and for a long time I had no idea that Christians took any other view.

This is from Arts Article,"Priesthood Made Ready": "In Ezekiel 40 and from there on, it talks about the configuration of such a temple, its lineaments and its proportions. It is given in such remarkable detail that it is hard to imagine it being just an allegory. Surely it must be something actual and that will exist in the redeemed Israel. Some believers have a difficulty with that because it talks about the restoration of sacrifices performed by priests. I have heard estimable men of God, who hold so jealously the sacrifice of Jesus as the Lamb of God, say, "No there cannot be another temple; there cannot be a resumption of sacrifice.” But does it mean that such a sacrificial ministry invalidates the once-and-for-all sacrifice of Christ? Or does it memorialize it?
Just as the history of sacrifice prepared Israel for the Lamb that would come without spot or blemish, and whose blood would be shed as a once-and-for-all, it is quite possible that a sacrificial ministry would be resumed in the millennial Israel, not to replace that sacrifice of the Lamb, but to be a memorial and reminder, to bring us back to a deepened appreciation of what has been given. It cannot be a substitute, and will detract nothing from the efficacy of the Lamb’s sacrifice, but rather enhance it
If this is true, there needs to be a priesthood to perform sacrifice."

It seems to me that this interpretation of scripture would lead to the perpetuation of following rituals.

Onemite said, "Art Katz says some good things- I find it so difficult to accept the view that there will be Levites performing priestly duties in the new temple in the Millennial reign, which is his view. He draws from Ez 40. The idea is so new to me that I don't know what to think."

Don't be too quick to accept it. The only way that could happen is if the Levites offered animal sacrifices again.

And that is not going to happen, God has no intention of going back to the Levitical priesthood, or to the sacrifices they offered.

"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law) what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchisedek, and not after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" (Hebrews 7:11,12).

God has established a different priesthood in the New Covenant, a priesthood after the order of Melchisedek. Its members are both Jews and Gentiles who are in covenant relationship with God through the Lord Jesus Christ, and they offer up, not animal sacrifices, but "spiritual sacrifices" (1 Pet. 2:5).

"But ye are a chosen generation [race, ie, born again Jews and Gentiles], a royal priesthood, a holy nation [ie, a spiritual nation from among all nations, Rev. 5:9,10], a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light, which in times past were not a people, but are now the people of God, which had not obtained mercy, but have now obtained mercy" (1 Pet. 2:9,10).

It's very encouraging to see in this thread the light that is growing in many hearts with regard to this often-misunderstood aspect of truth.

quote: "Has anyone noticed that we are in the Jewish feast of Purim? A number of evangelicals are saying that we need to observe this Jewish feast."

Well, hamantaschen are pretty good- especially the apricot ones.

Don't know about kosher, but definitely jewish. I used to go to a Jewish bagel shop in the morning for coffee and they sold these during Purim. They are little cookies with a fruit filling that are designed to look like Haman's hat. How they know what Haman's hat looked like, I have no idea.