World Vision Reverses Decision on Gay Married Employees: We Made a Mistake

Poster mattf12486 pasted a link On the other thread : https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=51915&forum=48 after reading it, I thought it might be worthy of a new thread :

Dear Friends,

Today, the World Vision U.S. board publicly reversed its recent decision to change our national employment conduct policy. The board acknowledged they made a mistake and chose to revert to our longstanding conduct policy requiring sexual abstinence for all single employees and faithfulness within the Biblical covenant of marriage between a man and a woman.

We are writing to you our trusted partners and Christian leaders who have come to us in the spirit of Matthew 18 to express your concern in love and conviction. You share our desire to come together in the Body of Christ around our mission to serve the poorest of the poor. We have listened to you and want to say thank you and to humbly ask for your forgiveness.

In our board's effort to unite around the church's shared mission to serve the poor in the name of Christ, we failed to be consistent with World Vision U.S.'s commitment to the traditional understanding of Biblical marriage and our own Statement of Faith, which says, " We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God. " And we also failed to seek enough counsel from our own Christian partners. As a result, we made a change to our conduct policy that was not consistent with our Statement of Faith and our commitment to the sanctity of marriage.

We are brokenhearted over the pain and confusion we have caused many of our friends, who saw this decision as a reversal of our strong commitment to Biblical authority. We ask that you understand that this was never the board's intent. We are asking for your continued support. We commit to you that we will continue to listen to the wise counsel of Christian brothers and sisters, and we will reach out to key partners in the weeks ahead.

While World Vision U.S. stands firmly on the biblical view of marriage, we strongly affirm that all people, regardless of their sexual orientation, are created by God and are to be loved and treated with dignity and respect.

Please know that World Vision continues to serve all people in our ministry around the world. We pray that you will continue to join with us in our mission to be " an international partnership of Christians whose mission is to follow our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in working with the poor and oppressed to promote human transformation, seek justice, and bear witness to the good news of the Kingdom of God ."

Sincerely in Christ,
Richard Stearns, President

http://www.christianpost.com/news/world-vision-reverses-decision-on-gay-married-employees-we-made-a-mistake-116871/

This doesn't sound like repentance to me. It sounds like bowing for the esteem of man. The question of whether they have employed or let slip in homosexuals and whether they are working to remove them is not addressed. One doesn't make a decision to admit homosexual 'unions' without considerable prior compromise.

Last night I listened to the Art Katz message "The Real or the 'Plastic'" which deals with this scenario. It deals with the excommunication, or removing from fellowship, of an unrepentant brother. This man who was excommunicated then comes to the conference where Art is speaking just a couple days later. He claims a dream and change of heart, very dubious indeed.

In another message, "Human, all too Human," Art speaks of a well known prophetic figure who has recently fallen. Celebrated as The Oracle, he freely took all the praise and hyperbolic attention. He met the needs of the people for personal prophecy. They didn't have to know the Holy Spirit, he had access for you. This man literally put the spotlight on himself. And the people LOVED it.

He was an alcoholic and a homosexual.

Who here has discernment and knows the voice of the Spirit? When you see promotions about a group, can you recognize if it is satisfying your fleshly lusts? God says flee from them. Have nothing to do with them. Cast them out from among you. He also says that if you want to do His will, you will recognize His voice and follow Him. You should know without knowing why. The Holy Spirit will teach you all things and show you things to come, if you are born of Him.

EDIT: corrected Katz message references.

Clearly the original announcement caused such an uproar that they knew fund raising and support would take a dramatic hit. It is hard to fathom, even from a secular point of view, how a company could be so out of touch with its base so as to make a decision that could put the whole operation in jeopardy. As bro Frank mentioned, there is a carrying along of every doctrine and the sleight of men going on.

In order to have confidence in ministries we support, we need to know that that ministry shares Biblical views and standards sincerely and without coercion. If Christians have to threaten to boycott and withhold funding to get an organization to do what's right- it is clearly time to move on and prayerfully find other more worthy recipients of the resources God has made us steward of. Moreover, once it is evident that they wanted to unilaterally spread the homosexual agenda into the churches, we risk making ourselves partakers of future evils that they adopt by continuing to support them.

I think the head of this organization should resign. I agree with him being clearly "out of touch with his base." He's clearly misleading his organization.

With that said, I think it is also rather shameful how much of a knee-jerk reaction many Christian leaders engaged in with immediately threatening to literally take food out of the mouths of the starving, and calling down fire and brimstone on this man and organization, all over this issue.

Justice and mercy are the weightier matters of the law my brothers.

I tend to agree with KJ-

I mean it seems that they can't win for losing. Would we rather they NOT have reversed their decision? Didn't other christian leaders (like the Mike Brown article posted on SI) WANT them to reverse their decision?

Or now that they are willing to reverse course should our attitude be "it's too late baby, now it's too late?"

Now obviously we would have preferred that they not have made the mistake in the first place. I am sure the decision was a symptom of some sickness going on in the board. But I think we have to support that they have reversed course.

Now, one might argue that they just "caved under pressure." But isn't that the whole purpose of Jesus's instructions in Mt. 18? The purpose it point out a sin that perhaps the sinning brother is blind to and then encourage (pressure) him to repent. It says that if it works you have "gained a brother."

"Now, one might argue that they just "caved under pressure." But isn't that the whole purpose of Jesus's instructions in Mt. 18? "

I would say, no. Godly sorrow is God-wards and not "man-wards." Worldly sorrow concerns itself for the consequences of ones actions. Godly sorrow works life and can be trusted. The other works death and should be distrusted. This is the message of Psalm 51.

There is something very rotten at the core when an organization is prepared to unilaterally and without coercion adopt the homosexual agenda. It tells me that this is what they truly believe, no matter how they suddenly reversed course. That is what concerns me.

It is sort of like sin. If a person stumbles into sin or is overtaken by it, we can forgive and restore joyfully. But if a person's sin is the result of a point of view that is contrary to the faith once delivered to the saints, even if they reverse it under coercion, I am inclined to assume the still hold the belief. We ought not be interested in homosexuals who come out of the closet going back into the closet. We ought rather to press on until their is a change of mind and a change of direction. When someone shows us who they really are I think we ought incline ourselves to believe them. Just my thoughts.

RobertW....Clearly the original announcement caused such an uproar that they knew fund raising and support would take a dramatic hit.

Getting into the pocket book has always been since the beginning of mankind, the best method to get folks attention, and it's still going strong in the 21st century.

Part of their statement kind-of bothered me:

"In our board's effort to unite around the church's shared mission to serve the poor in the name of Christ, we failed to be consistent with World Vision U.S.'s commitment to the traditional understanding of Biblical marriage and our own Statement of Faith, which says, " We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God. " And we also failed to seek enough counsel from our own Christian partners. As a result, we made a change to our conduct policy that was not consistent with our Statement of Faith and our commitment to the sanctity of marriage."

Why did they choose the words "traditional understanding of Biblical marriage"? Why didn't they use more solid terminology like: "the clear Biblical teaching of marriage". It is as if there is a "traditional understanding" and another understanding ... leaving open the idea that another viable understanding is available ...

I am not at all for the idea of taking food from hungry children. If I were already supporting a child with them I would continue, but I would never take on another new child with their organization when there are other much more solidly Biblical based organizations like www.gfa.org.

Forgiveness and trust are two different things. They have my forgiveness, but they have lost my trust.

Some say the children should not have to suffer because of this decision.

I wonder how many children who were formerly sponsored through World Vision by conservative evangelicals will now starve and die because so many Evangelical leaders are so concerned about being "holy." Next you'll be worried about people being healed on the Sabbath.

While this whole event has been grieving to hear about, it has not been too surprising for me. A while back the lead pastor of the church I was then attending brought several copies of Richard Stern’s book, "The Hole in our Gospel” and encouraged everyone to grab one. As I started reading it I immediately had serious concerns with its premise and the way it handled the Scriptures to support its agenda. To be honest I couldn't really stomach to read the whole thing. It was clearly supporting what has been termed the "Social Gospel” which is no gospel at all.

This liberal, social gospel has been packaged and repackaged over the years, and in recent times it has been promoted largely by the emergent church movement. Multitudes of churches have been caught up in this trap of Satan.

As part of this movement there is a challenging of the authority of the Word of God. Brothers and sisters, we must take heed that we do not get caught up in the social gospel trap and agenda. It is a clever deception which places human physical needs above God and His Word. It is a man-centered message with a man-centered agenda. Many believers including myself have been too gullible to recognize the deception.

The primary purpose of the church is to preach the gospel and make disciples for the glory of God and the advancement of His spiritual kingdom. All other types of efforts are secondary to that primary purpose, and they should be done with that primary purpose in view.

It is true that Christians are called to do good to all people, especially those in need within the household of faith(Gal.6:10;Acts 6:1-3). Our Lord indeed fed and healed the multitudes of lost people, but it seems clear to me that He always did so within the context of proclaiming the gospel of the spiritual kingdom of God, because that was His main mission in His earthly ministry before going to the cross.

I believe this article does a good job at giving a biblical perspective on Stearn’s book:

http://www.thebereancall.org/content/january-2011-extra

Some say the children should not have to suffer because of this decision.

So the question becomes, what are we willing to surrender for the bread that perishes? For the poor, for our children, for ourselves?

Will it be bread or every word that proceeds from the mouth of God?

There are other organizations that feed and clothe the needy, both Christian and non-Christian. Why support an organization which claims to be Christian and yet is apostate in nature, while there are other organizations you can support, both Christian and non-Christian. 1 Cor. 5 comes to mind. There we are commanded not to fellowship with those who claim to be Christian and yet deny the faith. I would venture to say it's better to support a secular organization that does not claim to be Christian.

Even better yet, we can go to the poor ghetto areas within our reach and reach out with the gospel and food and clothes as we are able, then we can make sure our money is not misspent.

My thoughts, Oracio

The Pharisees were concerned that people would spend eternity in hell and that the Jews would be sent into exile again... which is why they were so concerned about Jesus healing on the sabbath.

If you don't feed them long enough to get the opportunity to hear the Gospel, and they die, they'll go to hell anyway.

I'm glad the good Samaritan that picked up a man on the road to Jericho checked out the ethical credentials of everybody before he left the man to be cared for. God forbid the innkeeper were gay.

No one has answered my question: was it good that world vision reversed their decision or not?

Jesus told a story about 2 brothers. One said to his father he would work in the field but didn't, the other said he wouldn't but did. Jesus said the latter brother did the will of the father.

Based on the attitude I am seeing here, if a person in a church is confronted by a brother or brothers for a particular sin he should not be given any credit for stopping the sin because " maybe his heart isn't in it." If that is our attitude why approach him at all?

But it is important that the sin stop--God can work on the heart.

It seems like posters here are more upset that this organization reversed their unbiblical position than they were about the original decision. That my friends is ridiculous.

KingJimmy,

You had written in an earlier thread:

"They've probably been hiring unbiblically divorced and remarried people for decades now. How is this different?"

I understand where you're coming from. But World Vision claims to be a Christian relief organizaton, and any organization bearing the name of Christ should endeavour to provide an accurate representation of who Christ is - not only in deed, but also in the beliefs it professes.

I would agree that Christian organizations should not discriminate against repentant sinners, or against those who do not condone sin yet are struggling with it (practically all Christians fall into those two categories). But it's quite another thing to employ someone who is unrepentant, openly flaunt their sin and work against the truth. It should be noted that before this, World Vision already had restricted themselves to hiring Christian staff (whether that is a wise decision for Christian aid organizations, I don't have an opinion).

The original statement by World Vision on its decision to employ married gay Christians is pretty telling - the organization had decided to defer to "the authority of local churches" on the issue of marriage, rather than deferring to God Himself. With this backflip, I wonder if the organization has truly deferred to God or is still deferring to man (this time its sponsors).

I want to give in Jesus' name - because without Him, I would not be extending help to others (and logically, I would see little reason for that in a universe without God). I want others to know that it is God who is behind my giving, and I believe that is the sentiment of many other Christians too. World Vision is certainly not the only aid organization around bearing the Christian label.

You can give to secular, sacred, and profane organizations in Jesus name. What they do with the money, and who they have spend it on what, is ultimately going to be between them and God.

It's like a homeless man begging for money on the street. Do you shut up the generosity in your heart and fail to show him mercy simply because he might go spend the money on booze or drugs? Or do you give to him anyway?

I give to him anyway. If I see a geniune need and have the opportunity do good, I won't withold doing good from any man, woman, or child, and I will do it in the name of the Lord, even if others take his name in vain.

American Christianity, where we're so removed from actual suffering that we use child starvation as a bargaining chip against gay marriage.

KingJimmy,

You can give to secular, sacred, and profane organizations in Jesus name. What they do with the money, and who they have spend it on what, is ultimately going to be between them and God.

With aid organizations, you're not giving to an organization - but you're giving to the needy and the poor through an organization. There is no wrong in hoping that the recipients would know that the giving is done in Jesus' name. That's why the organization through which the giving is done matters.

I would probably be more at peace donating through a secular relief organization, than a 'Christian' organization which offers a false representation of Christ.

From what I remember reading on the World Vision website, they don't actively evangelize those they provide aid to. They are not like Samaritans Purse, which does. World Vision sounds like they just give wherever there is a need. They say they do that in Jesus name. Now, whether they actually do give in Jesus name, I don't know. But that doesn't stop me from giving in Jesus name.

I don't remember Peter and John in Acts going to find some money for the beggar so that they could secure an opportunity to witness to him.

Jesus did not feed the hungry and poor so that he could gain an audience. Jesus fed the hungry and poor to verify that He was who He said He was--the Son of God and Savior of all mankind. Remember, He said to believe, even if it was for the sake of the works that He did.

As Paul Washer has said, "We are called to advance a kingdom" and just because the King's subjects go feed poor people outside of the kingdom does NOT mean that they will be more likely to entertain the Gospel. It is the King who beckons them to come and because of THAT do people come to Christ.

by appolus on 2014/3/27 11:59:55

I wonder how many people will die and spend an eternity in hell because so many are not concerned about Truth, the Word of God and holiness? The question may be are we prepared to stand by and watch people with full stomachs go on to hell because we are ashamed of the Truth which is the power of God unto salvation?

The Salvation Army started out with a bold vision, the Spiritual imperative to see souls pulled from a raging storm that was drowning the masses and pulling them down into an eternal hell, and they fed the poor also. If we only feed people then we are good humanists. If the primary goal is to feed the souls of men with manna from heaven and living waters from above then we are fulfilling our calling and the feeding of the poor is a by-product of this, not the primary object. Once the feeding of the poor becomes the primary object, then we are merely a charitable organization , Christian or otherwise.........bro Frank
_____________________

Greetings Frank

I was thinking over this matter and thinking that perhaps we are beginning to see more sifting happening? Those who are HIS will stand on HIS WORD and not walk in compromise and those who are not will walk the way of the world. In the end I do fear that many will fall away because of compromise and still believe they are doing the work of GOD all the while...

God bless
maryjane

Is there is anything in scripture to say that we can't work with people who don't share our values?

I think it's good to plug John 6:22-40 here, in light of our discussion on giving:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+6%3A22-40&version=NKJV

The Sadducees and the rest of the majority of the world hated and wanted to kill Jesus because He preached the truth of God's Word and called sin sin (John 7:7). BTW, they were sad-you-see.

Something that I feel is very disturbing with some of these organizations such as world vision, is they seem to be involved with trying to help the United Nations meet there goals.
They seem also to be involved with some of the worlds Pharmakeia and attempts of vaccinating the world.
Many vaccines are produced biblicaly unethical. many are created with the use of Human Fetal Diploid Cells derived from aborted fetus. WI-38, MRC-5

Justice and mercy are the weightier matters of the law my brothers.

This comment reminded me of some study I have been doing recently on mercy and truth. Psalm 85:10 reads, "Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other."

Mercy and truth appear to be competing issues in this thread when God has designed them to be completing issues, like two wings of a bird. Mercy without truth will only produce sentimentality. Truth without mercy will only produce a mechanical action that lacks compassion.

Both of these principles have been brought out in this thread but the question I'm asking myself is how do we keep them in balance? Are we principle-centered or Person-centered?

In Christ,

Ron

The thought came to mind, the Word of God gives us plenty of warnings against false teachers and their false teachings. These are just of few of many such warnings:

"15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.”-Matt.7:15-20

"17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.” Rom. 6:17-18

"5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8\tNow as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was."-2Tim.3:5-9

"1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed." -2 Pet. 2:1-2

Now let's imagine for a moment that some of those false teachers from the first century were big on bringing relief to the poor back then. Could you imagine our Lord and the Apostles, after giving such warnings, sanctioning the support of such false teachers?

Oracio-

Should World Vision have reversed its decision, or not?

Everyone is dodging this simple question.

TMK....Should World Vision have reversed its decision, or not? Everyone is dodging this simple question.

I will answer it. Yes! for the children's sake, and took this up with the folks that made this decision afterwards. And I am still sticking to what I said earlier in this thread, and for the record this may not be fact, but it is my opinion.

"American Christianity, where we're so removed from actual suffering that we use child starvation as a bargaining chip against gay marriage".

I have always said, God is tough, but he's not blind. Some decisions have to be made to save/protect others, and let God deal with those decision makers later. You think if a Christian parachuted out of a plane and could not find the ripcord, and a gay person jumped out right behind him and was able to catch up with him and pull the Christians cord, you think the Christian would say NO! your not pulling my cord? Or do you think he would just pray and tell the Gay, God will save me, maybe God sent the Gay to save him.

Re:
by Rev__Enue on 2014/3/28 8:58:31

The question is redundant. They should have not made this decision in the first place.
--------------------------

No kidding. No one should ever sin in the first place.

But people and organizations blow it quite frequently and sin.

Jesus's approach for a sinning brother is for another brother(s) to approach the sinning brother and to point out his sin. If the sinning brother agrees, bonus.

I realize an organization is not a person but that is what happened here. Offended brothers approached WV and asked (threatened) them to repent. They did so. Now the same Christian brothers who were screaming several days ago should come alongside and support and further guide the leadership of WV. To keep on whining and crying after they have recanted seems decidedly non Christian to me.

by appolus on 2014/3/27 13:39:38

This is exactly how I feel sister. Amen, and men will certainly believe they are doing the work of the Lord and will actually have animosity towards those who think differently and begin to denigrade and revile them. One of the most consistent charges against the martyrs down through the ages by the forces who represented religion and who believed they were doing the work of God was that the saints were " arrogant and self-righteous and proud," because of their unwavering stand upon the Word of God in the midst of secular humanism and compromise..........bro Frank
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Greetings Frank

This is what I have been seeing also. This is why I believe true persecution for the "CHURCH" will come from those who are apart of the religious system. Those who profess to be saved but have never truly encountered JESUS, repented, and been saved will be the ones who come against those who stand firm on the ROCK of CHRIST JESUS and will not compromise HIS WORD.

God bless
mj

Why do I sometimes feel our Brothers and Sisters in Christ are harder on us than Christ might be? I don't know who they are serving, but the God I serve died a horrible death on the cross, even for folks that still have not accepted him. Wonder what we Christians should do to all those folks that have not accepted Christ into their lives? Should we let our light shine, or just starve them to death?

by MrBillPro on 2014/3/28 9:36:13

TMK....Should World Vision have reversed its decision, or not? Everyone is dodging this simple question.

I will answer it. Yes! for the children's sake, and took this up with the folks that made this decision afterwards. And I am still sticking to what I said earlier in this thread, and for the record this may not be fact, but it is my opinion.

"American Christianity, where we're so removed from actual suffering that we use child starvation as a bargaining chip against gay marriage".

The United States just went through a huge "showdown" over the same issue with Phil Robertson and A&E. World Vision knew all along what kind of reaction would happen. We just got through the Duck Dynasty issue where the majority of not only Christians but Americans got Phil back on the show over the same issue.

I believe that the cruel reality is that the World Vision leadership while pretending to care for hungry children were SO unconcerned about hungry children that they used their plight to try to twist the arms of concerned people into being more open to the idea of "gay marriage". The probability of losing sponsors and children starving was less important than making a statement in support of "gay marriage".

That, dear brethren, is brutally cruel. If we had not just been through the Duck Dynasty issue, one could assume ignorance on their part, but with the big uproar that just happened, it is obvious that they KNEW very well what the outcome would be. Hungry babies didn't matter.

by MrBillPro on 2014/3/28 7:26:56

Why do I sometimes feel our Brothers and Sisters in Christ are harder on us than Christ might be? I don't know who they are serving, but the God I serve died a horrible death on the cross, even for folks that still have not accepted him. Wonder what we Christians should do to all those folks that have not accepted Christ into their lives? Should we let our light shine, or just starve them to death?

____________

Greetings MrBill

JESUS tells us what we should do doesn't HE? We should pray for them to come to HIM, to repent, and follow JESUS with out compromise. We should share the gospel with them no matter what it may cost us and we should live our lives in the same manner HE did. Sometimes loving a person as CHRIST did/does means telling them the truth. Sin kills, it kills and leads one to eternal destruction, how loving is it to stand by and say nothing about sin all the while watching a person live in rebellion to GOD, die, and know their eternity will be one of suffering and torment forever?

As far as feeding the children is this charity cares for, I just wonder is there no other mission or charity that reaches out to these places that a brother/sister could give to? Is there no other mission or group who are following JESUS that could be given to. I believe Greg mentioned gospel for Asia as an alternative? I don't believe it has to be this group alone does it?

God bless
mj

Lordoitagain.....I believe that the cruel reality is that the World Vision leadership while pretending to care for hungry children were SO unconcerned about hungry children that they used their plight to try to twist the arms of concerned people into being more open to the idea of "gay marriage". The probability of losing sponsors and children starving was less important than making a statement in support of "gay marriage".

If we had not just been through the Duck Dynasty issue, one could assume ignorance on their part, but with the big uproar that just happened, it is obvious that they KNEW very well what the outcome would be. Hungry babies didn't matter.

I do believe you nailed it!

I read this earlier somewhere "World Vision just announced that they have reversed their policy, announced only two days ago, to accept gay Christians as employees".

I have never heard of a Gay Christian, can someone help me here?

It seems to me this controversy is using the poor as justification for aiding and abetting an organization that is motivated by dubious philosophies.

There is something that happens to the individual psyche when he gives to a needy person - we feel real good about ourselves because we supposedly helped a poor person. But is this holy?

Helping the needy is more complex then the handing over of material goods. Giving too much will foster an entitlement mentality - a "loaves and fishes" mentality.

Criticism of withholding monies supposedly for needy children because they support perversion is intended to impose a guilt trip upon the kindhearted person.

Years ago we used to get calls from telemarketers selling ???? to help some "poor" folks. I told them no, we support other ministries. Then the caller said, "so you do not want to help some poor people?" I said, "I guess not." Watchdog groups will tell you this group pockets most of the money earned, very little goes to the advertised recipients.

Something to consider: Hosea 6:6: "For I delight in loyalty rather then sacrifice, and in the knowledge of God rather then burnt offerings." God prefers loyalty over sacrifices...

My understanding.

TMK wrote:

Oracio-

Should World Vision have reversed its decision, or not?

Everyone is dodging this simple question.

I agree with others who have stated that the question is irrelevant because there are other deeper issues that need to be dealt with in this organization. I compare that question to asking what I think about certain policies within the Catholic church or the Mormon church etc. World Vision is not a Christian organization; it is an apostate emergent ecumenical heretical entity. The best thing the leadership can do is to truly repent and begin to proclaim the biblical gospel of Jesus Christ, something they have failed to do all along.

A key difference between WV and other organizations is that WV is more subtle and cunning in their claim to be Christian and therefore many remnant believers have been duped by them, just like many have been duped by the heretical emergent movement in general.

just-in on 2014/3/28 12:19:50

Hmmm, a continual blurring of the lines.

Come to think of it I have never heard of pedophile Christian, either.

Was this supposed to be a response to my very sincere question? Maybe I live to far back in the woods, but if your answer was sarcasm, it was very unfair to me, because once again I was just looking for an answer. If my question is stupid or something never mind.

Just-in--

What about a celibate gay Christian?

I would argue homosexual practice is what is forbidden. A pedophile is not a pedophile until he acts on his impulses.

Obviously being gay is not Gods intention but many things that exist are not. We live in a fallen world with real issues.

There are Christian people who struggle with homosexual feelings. Scripturally they must not act on their feelings just like an alcoholic cannot drink.

"16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."-2Cor.5:16-17

There is no such thing as a homosexual Christian, or a thief Christian, or a fornicator Christian, or a drunkard Christian, etc. Those who practice such things will not inherit God's kingdom-1Cor.6:9-11.

If you are outside of Christ you can be set free from any bondage to any sin and completely washed of all your sins through the blood of Jesus Christ. And you can be set free from damnable heresies which deny the truth of God's Word. The key is true repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The key is being truly born again by the Spirit of God. There is power in the blood of Jesus Christ, in His sacrificial death and resurrection.

Guess I never gave much thought to all this Gay stuff going around,until we become a politically correct nation. Still don't know a whole lot about it. I grew up in Rednecksville, Texas,"just an expression" so we never even heard the word Gay as a kid were I lived, of course I am 62 back then it just was never talked about. We had more wholesome things to talk about, plus our Pastor was a old country boy fire and brimstone Pastor, I was afraid he could hear me thinking in my sleep, so I was a good kid.:)

When will people wake up and realize that Jesus didn't die for the Godly? We won't be perfect till we go to heaven, that's for sure. Meanwhile do this; Love God, Love yourself and Love your neighbor. I do not see much love in this thread and Christians should always speak in a spirit of love even when they think they're rebuking.

Frank, it was just an opinion, sorry I will keep my opinions to myself, have a wonderful day, unless you have other plans.

MrBillPro, I know my posts on this thread may seem pretty hard and harsh at face value. And I will admit that this news event did cause me to react in anger. But I believe it was righteous indignation toward false teachers and their false gospel. The thing that makes me react more to certain false teachings as the ones promoted by WV is their subtlety. It grieves me to see so many, even true believers at times getting deceived and caught in these kinds of snares of the devil. It makes me feel nauseated, spiritually speaking, at times. For believers I believe there is a time and place for expressing such feelings of anger toward false teaching. We see this clearly throughout the Word of God.

Sorry, I let my personal tragedies in the past year, engage my mouth before my brain, guess this is a good place to vent, after all we are very forgiving, right?
God Bless!
Bill