Spurgeon on the Christian and the Theatre

"As I look abroad, I am grieved and have great heaviness of spirit at what I see among professing Christians. A very serious matter concerns the amusements engaged in by professing Christians. I see it publicly stated, by some who call themselves Christians, that it is good for Christians to attend the theatre, so that the tone and character of the productions may be improved. The suggestion is about as sensible as if we were bidden to pour a bottle of lavender water into the main sewer to improve its aroma.

If the church is now supposed to raise the tone of the world by imitating it, things have strangely altered since the day when our Lord said, "Come out from among them...and touch not the unclean thing." Is Heaven to descend to the infernal lake to raise its tone? Such has been the moral condition of the theatre for many a year that it has become too bad for mending. And even if it were mended it would soon become corrupt again....

If our church members fall into the habit of frequenting the theatre, we shall soon have them going much further in the direction of vice, and they will lose all relish for the ways of God. If theatre-going became general among professing Christians, it would be the death of piety. Yet one finds the taste for such things increasing on every hand...

Who can suppose amusements surrounded with the seductions of vice to be fit recreation for a pure mind? Who could draw near to God after sitting to admire the performances of the debauched...

When behaviour is growing every day more lax and licentious, shall believers lower the standard of their lives?...It is profoundly saddening to hear how people talk about acts of sin nowadays; how young men and women without blushing talk of deeds which deprave and destroy, as though they were trifles, or themes for joking. It is a great pity that the ends of justice should require the publishing of unsavoury details. As for those who not only commit lewdness, but who take pleasure in those who do it””"O my soul, come not thou into their secret."...

It will certainly be disastrous for the church of God if her members should become impure. In these days we must be doubly strict, lest any looseness of conduct should come in among us. Actual sin must be repressed with a strong hand, but even the appearance of evil must be avoided.

My dear brethren and sisters, whatever your deficiencies, be pure in heart and lip and life. Never indulge an evil imagination, or speak about things which are unclean. Let them not once be named among you, as becometh saints. A lascivious glance, a doubtful word, a questionable act must be strenuously avoided. Anything and everything that verges upon the unchaste must be rejected.

Only the pure in heart shall see God. We are all subject to human passions, and this wretched flesh of ours is too easily fascinated by those who would pander to its indulgences. In seconds the soul may be led into captivity. Watch unto prayer, especially in these evil days. Cry, "Lead us not into temptation," and if the prayer is sincere, you will also keep far from doubtful places. Make a covenant with your eyes that you will not look upon that which pollutes, and stop your ears from hearing about it. Watch your lips lest they spread corruption when speaking of sin. I am not afraid that you will step directly into gross sin, but that you may take a very small step on the road that leads to it. Then it will only be a matter of time....

Avoid the appearance of evil. "But we must not be too rigid," says one. There is no fear of that in these days. You will never go too far in holiness, nor become too like your Lord Jesus. If anybody accuses you of being too strict and precise, do not grieve but try to deserve the charge. I cannot suppose that at the last great day our Lord Jesus Christ will say to anyone, "You were not worldly enough. You were too jealous over your conduct, and did not sufficiently conform to the world." No, my brethren, such a wrong is impossible. He Who said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect," has set before you a standard beyond which you can never go.....

As for your Lord’s work, be bound to the altar of Christ and be united for ever to Him, and I am sure you will not find that you are losers by giving up worldly pleasures. The Lord’s ways are ways of pleasantness, and all His paths are peace. There is a safe and sweet pleasantness in holy living, and the pleasantness lies very much in the fact that an abounding peace springs from it. God grant us grace to keep in these peaceful paths, even though others should call us Puritans and ridicule our holy fear of sin."

- C.H. Spurgeon

AMEN!!!!!

Spurgeon's right. Just look what happened when Lincoln went to the theater.

He probably wrote that while puffing on one of his fine cigars.

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." Psalm 1:1

The Pulpit Commentary on Psalm 1 --

"Verse 1. - Blessed is the man; literally, blessings are to the man. But the Authorized Version exactly gives the sense (comp. Psalm 2:12). That walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly. The margin gives, "or wicked," and this is probably the best rendering of the word used (רשׁעים). The righteous man is first described negatively, under three heads.

(1) He "does not walk in the counsel of the ungodly:" i.e. he does not throw in his lot with the wicked does not participate in their projects or designs;

(2) he standeth not in the way of sinners; i.e. he does not take part in their actions, does not follow the same moral paths; and

(3) he sitteth not in the seat of the scornful; i.e. has no fellowship with them in the "scorn" which they cast upon religion."

-------

"I will set no thing of Belial before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me." Psalm 101:3 (Darby)

I wonder why so few take those verses seriously....we had our kids memorize Psalm 1, and used Psalm 101:3 as the reason why we had no tv for 15 years....I cannot eloquently reiterate what I heard, but I listened to the Art Katz sermon yesterday that was posted on "apostolicity".....he said something to the effect that if you live wholeheartedly for God, people would view you as strange and you would not fit in, etc. That is my experience within my own home.....I just don't get it - what you have posted, followthelamb, is SCRIPTURE....

I don't understand how someone can equate the theater with sin. I find this to be legalistic unless someone can demonstrate to me that it is sin in the Eyes of God. Theater/drama demonstrates the realities of life and is used to proclaim the Gospel as well.

Mr. Spurgeon was probably speaking toward something more specific that is not mentioned in this little article.

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, DEADn, but we always taught our children that you can talk ABOUT the realities of life, even the SINFUL realities of life (actually they are mentioned countless times in the Bible), without graphically portraying them. I can't speak to what Mr. Spurgeon meant exactly, but you can be sure today's "theater" is far worse than what he could have imagined, for the most part.

mama27
By your words it seems to me that you, and Spurgeon, may think theater only dwells on the sinful things in life? Or glorifies the sinful things in life? Not always case. I think far too often Christians tend to be a bit over the edge when it comes to things like this thinking that it becomes as part of the fly in the ointment. Is that really so?

Often I can watch a movie, even if it turned out to be bad, and use it as a teaching tool to teach a life lesson and even something about God in the process.

I still wonder what kind of things Spurgeon was talking about in this article because he is very vague in his words and leaves me wondering if he is just being overly legalistic.

Just my thoughts and I know they don't agree with everyone but I also don't think I agree with everyone on the board from what I read. I am just careful with what I post anymore.

John

It seems like it's always the same posters opposing carnality and the same posters defending it and opposing God's Word even after they are clearly shown the error from Scripture. The same goes for opposing and defending God's truth in other areas of doctrine. There is a dividing line being drawn and we must choose this day whom we will serve, whether God or Satan.

Theater is carnality? I suppose it is when trashy stories are shown.

What are some examples of leisure in holiness that a Christian should abide in? I refer to things beyond reading/studying the bible and meditation and witnessing and so on.

John

Deadn, you answered your question. Isn't Hollywood all about trashy stories these days with trashy sex scenes, trashy mocking and blasphemy of God's name, trashy cursing, calling evil good and good evil? I think you'd be hard pressed to find something wholesome and decent these days other than some of the children's films.

I do not have a TV in my house.

Sometimes I wounder what the old Preachers would have thought about the world wide web.

In the days of the Welsh revival (1905) the drama troupes in Great Britain were warned, "Don't go to Wales; you'll go broke." No one had any interest in going to the theatre.

No one wanted to go to the soccer games, either. In fact they couldn't even get enough people together to form a football team.

Selah.

It is the "tone" of these posts decrying certain things as sin or carnality that bug me. The tone is this: "I don't go to the theater (or do whatever) because I think it is sinful or carnal. Therefore no other Christian should go ( or do whatever) either. If I don't go (or do whatever} neither should you."

God created us as artistic beings. In fact, we were created in His image. God is artistic. If anyone cannot see this then they are blind.

There is nothing wrong with artistic expression in and of itself. Can you imagine if there was no art in the world? It would be a pretty awful place. Theater has been an art form for centuries.

Obviously there are many forms of artistic expression that are downright sinful.

But to take a brush as wide as the entire breadth of artistic expression and paint it as evil or sinful is just plain wrong.

To suggest that all of Shakespeare's plays, for example are works of the devil is outrageous. Get yourself some culture and go see a Shakespeare play.

Oracio- it is not carnality I am against. It is legalistic statements like "if you go the theater (or movies, or an art museum, or read a novel that "gasp" does not have a Christian theme" then you are a carnal person. You might be, but to just make such statement about someone without reservation is exceedingly unfair and is contrary to what Paul taught about such matters.

Don't you think CS Lewis knew his Shakespeare?

It is not only films that are trashy, many so-called Christian fiction is as well. Admittedly, I have not read new ones much recently - I quit when I got disgusted, have no idea where the new ones went to. The "Amish" books look boring...

One also has to be careful with children's videos. Some spout New age thought. The classics are wonderful, though.

What is better for family time is to play games. One can learn how to interact with others, how to lose gracefully, develop strategy skills like in chess. Participation in games will do more to improve family relations then viewing a movie together.

(BTW, likely Paul wouldn't brag here about it, but his four year old son is a great chess player. Knows how to strategize to win in the game. Now this is a skill that will have far reaching applications in other areas of life - learning skills and have fun while doing so. Great winner, IMHO.)

Great article. Thanks for sharing it, Brandy.

ginnyrose

I am leaving this discussion. I do not have the gift of debate. I am almost always sorry when I post my opinion. I do not condemn or judge anyone for what they do. There ARE gray areas. But on the whole, we are not a holy people. I think we are way too close to the line. I mean everything I say in a spirit of humility and not judgment. But I am tired of the way "legalism" is thrown around when some Christians are just trying to live holy lives as Jesus tells us to do.

TMK, with all due respect, because you have been willfully denying the clear truth of eternal punishment, I don't believe we believe in the same God. Our different beliefs about God affect how we view this and other issues. If there is no eternal hell to shun there is really nothing to worry about, is there? If there are no eternal consequences for sin this and other issues are not to be taken that serious after all, if God Himself doesn't take them that serious. Yet Jesus said it is better to pluck out your eye than to be cast into hell with both eyes. That's how serious He is about what we entertain with our eyes.

quote:

"TMK, with all due respect, because you have been willfully denying the clear truth of eternal punishment,"

This is an outright misstatement. So your statement is without merit. I do not deny that hell MAY be a place of eternal torment. All I have tried to do is to state what the alternative viewpoints actually are because there are so much misinformation out there on this subject.

Why not just discuss the issue at hand instead of bringing up this collateral point? I have already conceded that there is a lot of bad entertainment out there. Everybody knows that. The issue is whether all entertainment is bad.

Monopoly teaches greed.

Chess promotes pride (after all, people who are good at chess are smart people).

Snow White has a witch. So does "the lion, the witch and the wardrobe."

Hungry Hungry hippo promotes aggressiveness. All that violent whacking.

"Old Maid" requires cards.

"Hamlet" has a murder. So does the Bible. Many.

Unfortunately, Oracio, you are making the mistake of assuming that just because I try to defend the idea that not all art or theater is bad means that I am defending sin or carnality. You can think this what you want; it is your choice but nothing could be further from the truth. But it would be rather uncharitable of you to do so.

I happen to believe that, for the most part, most Christians are smart enough to read a book like "A Tale of Two Cities" or watch a play like "The Merchant of Venice" and not be dragged into the pits of perdition.

if you think I am defending what truly is the trash that is put out by Hollywood these days, or trashy novels, or trashy paintings or photos, etc., then we are talking past each other because I am doing no such thing. I am simply taking the stance, which quite frankly I cannot believe that more people here are taking (probably out of fear of being labeled a God-hater) that ALL theater and ALL novels and ALL movies are not inherently evil.

Now please excuse me while I go watch some Captain Kangaroo. I always liked him since I was a wee tyke. Sesame Street was always too liberal for me.

TMK, I can show you clearly many posts of yours in which you have posted in support of universal reconciliation, the belief that all will in the end repent and be saved and therefore there is no eternal punishment for anyone.

love not the world
or the things of the worlds
anybody who loves the world
THE LOVE OF GOD IS NOT IN HIM

it must be clear to us all that tv movies ,theatre
night clubs and the dancing that goes on in there is not of god ,,but it is of the world

this is an issue of the heart ,,
we need to ask our selves do I love any of these things

if we say sure l always loved to go to the movies all my life ,,,and since iv become a Christian that hasn't changed or I still love the old worldly music I allways listened to that ,,ect

the bible is truly saying to you that gods love is not in your heart ,,because the things of the world fill your heart ,,and god and his world are only in your head

some Christians will say you cannot be born of god because the bible says in these cases described the love of god is not there and that what the being born-again is

others will say you have back slidden away from god

we can debate those interpretations but the facts that if you love the things of the world ,,the love of god is not in you

we know none of the things mentioned feed the spirit in most cases ,,but on the contrary it feeds the carnal mind ,,and that is why the world loves all these things because it is not spiritual ,for the carnal man can not receive the things of the spirit, ,for it is foolish to him,,,carnal fleshy mind and its appetites is all he has

this is nothing to do with legalisms

blessings to ya all

quote:
"TMK, I can show you clearly many posts of yours in which you have posted in support of universal reconciliation,"

Don't mistake the ability to explain a position (which I can only do semi-decently with that subject- there are others who are far better at doing so than me) with the support of a position. When it comes to the final fate of the wicked I truly do not know. I will admit that I suspect the idea of eternal torment per tradition might not be true, but it might be.

I can sort of explain the theory of evolution at least in a non-technical way but I certainly don't believe it.

I have noticed one thing on this forum in particular- people get very threatened when there is any challenge to the status quo regardless of the topic. When someone does go against the flow in some way, they get accused of things like "believing in a different God."

We shouldn't be so fast to judge hearts or motives. It is okay to disagree and sometimes very strongly but we should be able to do so without resorting to false accusations and rhetoric.

So to summarize my position, in regard to this topic regarding "theater:" I agree that we should not have an unspiritual alliance with any media. However I do not believe that necessarily means that we should toss out the TV set or never go see a movie. Others here can disagree and that is fine. I won't call them a holy roller if they won't call me an apostate.

ADisciple wrote: "In the days of the Welsh revival (1905) the drama troupes in Great Britain were warned, "Don't go to Wales; you'll go broke." No one had any interest in going to the theatre.

No one wanted to go to the soccer games, either. In fact they couldn't even get enough people together to form a football team."

This is a very good insight. It shows that when folk have the real life,there is no interest in these other things to entertain us. To tell anyone 'not to do something like watch TV or secular entertainment' won't work. It will just leave them empty if they don't have life. 'It is putting the cart before the horse'. The principle is that 'we walk in the Spirit' first and 'then we will not fulfil the desires of the flesh'.

How can such entertainment satisfy someone who has the life of God in them? It's like offering cabbage soup to someone in the middle of eating a juicy fillet steak!

So surely after after so much discussion on similar topics we should rather talk about what we should turn to rather than what we should turn from?

It is my firm conviction that it is only in obsessing on the person of Jesus Christ and expounding and drilling into what he is, and who he is, that we will be able to offer any hope for society.

by ZekeO on 2014/3/31 6:13:38

So surely after after so much discussion on similar topics we should rather talk about what we should turn to rather than what we should turn from?

It is my firm conviction that it is only in obsessing on the person of Jesus Christ and expounding and drilling into what he is, and who he is, that we will be able to offer any hope for society.

______________

Greetings

I would rather sit down with those GOD has placed around me and read from the Bible all about Noah,(Noah movie thread) then share with one another what the LORD has for us to learn from such a time.

But I am also thankful that reviews and articles have been shared so that I do not waste money on something that would do nothing to draw me closer in my walk with JESUS. Have you seen the price of a movie ticket lately? :)

As has been said much of what is put forth today is a waste of time and will do little to draw one closer to JESUS or further HIS KINGDOM. Perhaps we have to much time on our hands here in this country and that is why the need to "find something" to do with our time becomes and issue. If we were truly being servants and laying down our lives one to another I wonder if that would be different??

God bless
maryjane

Are we to take Spurgeon's quote as near absolute truth or use it just as a piece of meditation? I think the latter personally.

In the meantime since Spurgeon sees the Theater as sin what kind of fun activities is considered holy to any Christian and why? Too often religious people rail against the don'ts of things and it causes so many to run the other way. What about the do's?

John

Just-in

I agree with your words but articles such as the OP drive people to do's and don'ts without specific reasons.

Reasons given is sin but what is sin in it? Does the OP become obsolute as in all theater is sin? Why? This is the tone that many religious people give off and so those who are not religious don't even know what this really means and it appears to them as do's and don'ts.

I think the summary of the Christian life is this:

IF THEN you were raised with Christ,
SEEK those things which are above, WHERE CHRIST IS, sitting at the right hand of God.
Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

Colossians 3:1-2

Wow! after reading all this thread, I think I will just go set out the rest of my days at the church, and pray continuously and sing praise songs. Hopefully the condemnation from reading all this don't kill me before I can get to the church.

Augustine of Hippo: On theatre, from the Confessions. Confessions, St. Augustine. London: Penguin Classics, 1961.

" I was much attracted by the theatre, because the plays reflected my own unhappy plight and were tinder to my fire. Why is it that men enjoy feeling sad at the sight of tragedy and suffering on the stage, although they would be most unhappy if they had to endure the same fate themselves? Yet they watch the plays because they hope to be made to feel sad, and the feeling of sorrow is what they enjoy. What miserable delirium this is! The more a man is subject to such suffering himself, the more easily he is moved by it in the theatre. Yet where he suffers himself, we call it misery: when he suffers out of sympathy with others, we call it pity. But what sort of pity can we really feel for an imaginary scene on the stage? The audience is not called upon to offer help but only to feel sorrow, and the more they are pained the more they applaud the author. Whether this human agony is based on fact or is simply imaginary, if it is acted so badly that the audience is not moved to sorrow, they leave the theatre in a disgruntled and critical mood; whereas, if they are made to feel pain, they stay to the end watching happily.”
Book III, 2.

The LORD designed us to be our brother's keeper. When we do not we stagnate. Watching others lives as a form on the stage is no substitute for getting involved in whatever way the LORD would have us to participate. To simply watch is death. To go forth and obey is life.

[quoteby DEADn on 2014/3/30 16:15:32

I don't understand how someone can equate the theater with sin. I find this to be legalistic unless someone can demonstrate to me that it is sin in the Eyes of God.
This thread and the "remember lot's wife" thread were all started this weekend on the heels on the movie NOAH. So take it with a grain of salt.

This is like anything else, if God has spoken to "YOU" personally and convicted you that going to the movies (or to the theater), then by all means don't go!!

It's as simple as that!

God bless us all,
Lisa

AMEN to the original post!!! Praise the Lord who gave Himself for us; and shall we not give ourselves to Him totally?! oh, Praise The Lord! I am commanded to take EVERY thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and a saint will do this in Love to His Master, not wanting to break communion with the Living Fountain, nor grieve, nor quench His Blessed Holy Spirit. When He draws near to us, oh Praise The Lord, there is nothing sweeter.

Maybe the question here should be "what can we watch"? Maybe most here practice what they preach, and that's fine, this is why I don't preach. I can't do the things I don't want to do, guess I am in good company, Paul was the same. "For that which I do I know not, for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I". Paul good thing your not alive today and here, you would be rebuked into hell.

The problem with the Church in America is that we've stopped following Jesus message and started following each others.

I wrote:

It seems like it's always the same posters opposing carnality and the same posters defending it and opposing God's Word even after they are clearly shown the error from Scripture. The same goes for opposing and defending God's truth in other areas of doctrine.

I realized those comments were mean-spirited and out of place. I sincerely apologize for them.