Revelations of Hell from two different people

Bill Wiese -
book - 23 Minutes in Hell
and free sermons/videos on youtube and here:
http://www.soulchoiceministries.org/

Mary K. Baxter -
book - Divine Revelation of Hell
and free sermons/videos on youtube and website here:
http://www.divinerevelations.info/mary_k_baxter_a_divine_revelation_of_hell.htm

I've watched video sermons from both of them. And listened to Mary K. Baxter's audio book on the site above. I wanted to recommend them to the saints here interested in knowing about hell. I highly doubt they made these revelations up, whatever doctrine they believe.

Note: they both state somewhere in their testimonies that hell is "eternal" or "never getting out". I'm not recommending the "eternal hell" belief part actually, but rather the details described by these two seemingly genuine experiences.

(also the near death experience of Howard Storm if anyone is interested in googleing it.)

Blessings

Have you read and viewed others books and or art in the subject? People have gone there and write similar things or or paint pictures depicting similar things. "Gates of Hades shall not prevail against it" describes some sort of kingdom since gates speak of power of a city

I take revelations with a grain of salt but I also think there is a reason Jesus gives them. Due to the need for people to not go there. people have visions and revelations that change their life. Something's got to be from The Lord. :)

This is the specific artist I was talking about. A Korean artist who saw Hell and depicted it in art.

http://filesmystery.blogspot.com/2011/04/paintings-of-hell-by-korean-artist.html

I don't know what to say. I believe there's good evidence for the "Gates of Hades" being a kingdom

"If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
(Matthew 12:26 NASB)

One more scripture that might be telling about demons.... when the demoniac said to Jesus

And they cried out, saying, "What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"
(Matthew 8:29 NASB)

note, "before the time" as if their torment hasn't begun.

Even Paul says there's a time to not look at man's reputation when it comes to Truth bros Galatians 2:6

Why are these books best-sellers as well as other books on seeing heaven. They simply are big-money makers. I think it is quite dangerous to be enraptured with these things.

I saw the money involvment. saddened by it, because she has no good teacher to teach her she needs to continually take up the cross and not love mammon.

I would say all she needs is the bible, but personally I was not able to understand things without good teachers.... like Poonen

edit smiley, out of place

The authors of those books don't seem to be Christians full of the Holy Spirit otherwise there main concern would be to build Christs Kingdom. So unless I see the fruits of the Spirit in them I'm convinced that the "revelation" they had is not from God but from a different spirit!Beware!
If it were an important revelation God in His sovereign Wisdom would have put it in His Word.
"Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth." (Col. 3v1)

Two objections.

I read on some thread here: "some start well and finish poor. Some start poor and finish well."

And

Do we have any precedent to think that God gives a gift, revelation, blessing, authority, or position/etc to someone and they always follow through to the end with it well?

See what I'm saying?

"In other news! I’m asking God to influence my thoughts & emotions, in areas where I can easily get off track; who’s joining me on this adventure?"

Good point. You are right. God help me too

Part of my own quest for wanting to know more was helped along with a book on Steve Gallagher's site, Eternal Weight of Glory

Intra Muros (My Dream of Heaven) - Rebecca Springer - 1898
http://www.eternalweight.com/written/my-dream-of-heaven/preface/

I think wanting to know more of God is a good thing. Actually, having more details could help save people.

(Another revelation of Hell not included in Scriptures is the Apocalypse of Peter. EDIT: (I don't know this, i learned it in a class, but it says its debated on wiki): 'The 325AD Council of Nicaea voted to include only one "apocalyptic" piece of scripture into the cannon of the bible. they voted for Revelation.' but it was considered divinely inspired "scripture" by some church fathers)

Apocalypse of Peter
THE APOCALYPSE OF PETER

1 . . . . many of them will be false prophets, and will teach divers ways and doctrines of perdition: but these will become sons of perdition. 3. And then God will come unto my faithful ones who hunger and thirst and are afflicted and purify their souls in this life; and he will judge the sons of lawlessness.

4. And furthermore the Lord said: Let us go into the mountain: Let us pray.. And going with him, we, the twelve disciples, begged that he would show us one of our brethren, the righteous who are gone forth out of the world, in order that we might see of what manner of form they are, and having taken courage, might also encourage the men who hear us.

6. And as we prayed, suddenly there appeared two men standing before the Lord towards the East, on whom we were not able to look; 7, for there came forth from their countenance a ray as of the sun, and their raiment was shining, such as eye of man never saw; for no mouth is able to express or heart to conceive the glory with which they were endued, and the beauty of their appearance. 8. And as we looked upon them, we were astounded; for their bodies were whiter than any snow and ruddier than any rose; 9, and the red thereof was mingled with the white, and I am utterly unable to express their beauty; 10, for their hair was curly and bright and seemly both on their face and shoulders, as it were a wreath woven of spikenard and divers-coloured flowers, or like a rainbow in the sky, such was their seemliness.

11. Seeing therefore their beauty we became astounded at them, since they appeared suddenly. 12. And I approached the Lord and said: Who are these? 13. He saith to me: These are your brethren the righteous, whose forms ye desired to see. 14. And I said to him: And where are all the righteous ones and what is the aeon in which they are and have this glory?

15. And the Lord showed me a very great country outside of this world, exceeding bright with light, and the air there lighted with the rays of the sun, and the earth itself blooming with unfading flowers and full of spices and plants, fair-flowering and incorruptible and bearing blessed fruit. 16. And so great was the perfume that it was borne thence even unto us. 17. And the dwellers in that place were clad in the raiment of shining angels and their raiment was like unto their country; and angels hovered about them there. 18. And the glory of the dwellers there was equal, and with one voice they sang praises alternately to the Lord God, rejoicing in that place. 19. The Lord saith to us: This is the place of your high-priests, the righteous men.

20. And over against that place I saw another, squalid, and it was the place of punishment; and those who were punished there and the punishing angels had their raiment dark like the air of the place.

21. And there were certain there hanging by the tongue: and these were the blasphemers of the way of righteousness; and under them lay fire, burning and punishing them. 22. And there was a great lake, full of flaming mire, in which were certain men that pervert righteousness, and tormenting angels afflicted them.

23. And there were also others, women, hanged by their hair over that mire that bubbled up: and these were they who adorned themselves for adultery; and the men who mingled with them in the defilement of adultery, were hanging by the feet and their heads in that mire. And I said: I did not believe that I should come into this place.

24. And I saw the murderers and those who conspired with them, cast into a certain strait place, full of evil snakes, and smitten by those beasts, and thus turning to and fro in that punishment; and worms, as it were clouds of darkness, afflicted them. And the souls of the murdered stood and looked upon the punishment of those murderers and said: O God, thy judgment is just.

25. And near that place I saw another strait place into which the gore and the filth of those who were being punished ran down and became there as it were a lake: and there sat women having the gore up to their necks, and over against them sat many children who were born to them out of due time, crying; and there came forth from them sparks of fire and smote the women in the eyes: and these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion.

26. And other men and women were burning up to the middle and were cast into a dark place and were beaten by evil spirits, and their inwards were eaten by restless worms: and these were they who persecuted the righteous and delivered them up.

27. And near those there were again women and men gnawing their own lips, and being punished and receiving a red-hot iron in their eyes: and these were they who blasphemed and slandered the way of righteousness.

28. And over against these again other men and women gnawing their tongues and having flaming fire in their mouths: and these were the false witnesses.

29. And in a certain other place there were pebbles sharper than swords or any spit, red-hot, and women and men in tattered and filthy raiment rolled about on them in punishment: and these were the rich who trusted in their riches and had no pity for orphans and widows, and despised the commandment of God.

30. And in another great lake, full of pitch and blood and mire bubbling up, there stood men and women up to their knees: and these were the usurers and those who take interest on interest.

31. And other men and women were being hurled down from a great cliff and reached the bottom, and again were driven by those who were set over them to climb up upon the cliff, and thence were hurled down again, and had no rest from this punishment: and these were they who defiled their bodies acting as women; and the women who were with them were those who lay with one another as a man with a woman.

32. And alongside of that cliff there was a place full of much fire, and there stood men who with their own hands had made for themselves carven images instead of God. And alongside of these were other men and women, having rods and striking each other and never ceasing from such punishment.

33. And others again near them, women and men, burning and turning themselves and roasting: and these were they that leaving the way of God

FRAGMENTS OF THE APOCALYPSE OF PETER.

1. CLEMENS ALEXANDRINUS, Eclog. 48. For instance, Peter in the Apocalypse says that the children who are born out of due time shall be of the better part: and that these are delivered over to a care-taking angel that they may attain a share of knowledge and gain the better abode [after suffering what they would have suffered if they had been in the body: but the others shall merely obtain salvation as injured beings to whom mercy is shown, and remain without punishment, receiving this as a reward].*

2. CLEM. ALEX. Eclog. 49. But the milk of the women running down from their breasts and congealing shall engender small flesh eating beasts: and these run up upon them and devour them.

3. MACARIUS MAGNES, Apocritica iv., 6 cf. 16. The earth, it (sc. the Apoc. of Peter) says, "shall present all men before God at the day of judgment, being itself also to be judged, with the heaven also which encompasses it."

4. CLEM. ALEX. Eclog. 41. The scripture says that infants that have been exposed are delivered to a care-taking angel, by whom they are educated and so grow up, and they will be, it says, as the faithful of a hundred years old are here.

5. METHODIUS, Conviv. ii., 6. Whence also we have received in divinely-inspired scriptures that untimely births are delivered to care-taking angels, even if they are the offspring of adultery.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apocalypsepeter-roberts.html

Good point.

it may be that the apostles had more books in their repertoire, but centuries later, the believers at that time canonized the bible. IF that is true, we could take our stand with the apostles and soak up all the inspired writings to our benefit. Determining that would be hard, but we could test them with the bible cannon to be sure.

4. And furthermore the Lord said: Let us go into the mountain: Let us pray.. And going with him, we, the twelve disciples, begged that he would show us one of our brethren, the righteous who are gone forth out of the world, in order that we might see of what manner of form they are, and having taken courage, might also encourage the men who hear us.

6. And as we prayed, suddenly there appeared two men standing before the Lord towards the East, on whom we were not able to look; 7, for there came forth from their countenance a ray as of the sun, and their raiment was shining, such as eye of man never saw; for no mouth is able to express or heart to conceive the glory with which they were endued, and the beauty of their appearance. 8. And as we looked upon them, we were astounded; for their bodies were whiter than any snow and ruddier than any rose; 9, and the red thereof was mingled with the white, and I am utterly unable to express their beauty; 10, for their hair was curly and bright and seemly both on their face and shoulders, as it were a wreath woven of spikenard and divers-coloured flowers, or like a rainbow in the sky, such was their seemliness.

11. Seeing therefore their beauty we became astounded at them, since they appeared suddenly. 12. And I approached the Lord and said: Who are these? 13. He saith to me: These are your brethren the righteous, whose forms ye desired to see. 14. And I said to him: And where are all the righteous ones and what is the aeon in which they are and have this glory?

"Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, "Get up, and do not be afraid.” And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone. As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.”” (Matthew 17:1”“9, NASB95)

You have to decide Noah which one of these two accounts you will receive. You cannot receive both. The one stands in defiance of the other and the other stands in defiance of the truth of the canon of scripture. There are good reasons these scripts are not accepted as truth.

how was the cannon put together? Were there disagreements at any time between apostles? in the early church? how about in the church fathers? did all have the holy spirit? do we synthesize the 4 gospels into one original story? (for there WAS one original story) If we synthesize the 4 gospels into one original story, whatever apparent differences, is it at least POSSIBLE in any way to synthesize the Apocalypse of Peter into the original story?

how was the cannon put together? Were there disagreements at any time between apostles? in the early church? how about in the church fathers? did all have the holy spirit? do we synthesize the 4 gospels into one original story? (for there WAS one original story) If we synthesise the 4 gospels into one original story, whatever apparent differences, is it at least POSSIBLE in any way to synthesise the Apocalypse of Peter into the original story?

The earliest canonical list is generally referred to as the The Muratorian Fragment. In this fragment we find the following words:

"We receive only the apocalypses of John and Peter, though some of us are not willing that the latter be read in church."

scripta apocalypse etiam iohanis et petri tantrum recipimus quam quidam ex nos

Hans Lietzmann, Das Muratorische Fragment und die Monarchianischen Prologue zu den Evangelien (Kleine Texte, i; Bonn, 1902; 2nd ed., Berlin, 1933)

It is generally accepted that this fragment was originally written in Greek and then translated into Latin at a much later date. Therefore the earliest known reference to a Canonical List expressly states that the Apocalypse of Peter whilst received, is not sufficiently trusted to be read in the churches.

Personally there in one very singular reason why I would not receive it as anything other than a historical document. This is because it cannot possibly have been written by Peter. The fact that it is Pseudo graphical means that it cannot be accepted alongside Canon. The issue is not simply a matter of synchronistic equivalence. It is much more fundamental than that.

In drawing attention to Matthew 17:1”“9 I was not simply pointing to obvious contradictions in the Revelation of Peter text, as a comparison with Matthew, but was more specifically drawing attention to the very point you yourself make. By asking if it is possible to synthesise the four gospels what you are really alluding to is the differences between the gospels. It is important to recognise that if everything that Jesus did were gathered into books, it would fill many more books that the four gospels could contain. It would amount to a library of books. The gospels are therefore written according to the intention of each gospel and not as a way of seeking precise agreement. The agreement would fill the world four times over.

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.” (John 21:25, NASB95)

The synthesis which you speak of, is surpassed by the whole event of the Lord's life. There is no agreement with the whole, because the whole has not been written. Each is a Spirit led part. That is why we cannot accept that which is written outside of the Holy Spirit's clear leading. In short the original story has not been recorded fully. For that reason attempting to synthesise the Revelation of Peter into the Canon of scripture would amount to an unjustified confidence and speculation.

did you read the whole Muratorian Fragment?

http://www.bible-researcher.com/muratorian.html

sure is interesting.

Therefore the earliest known reference to a Canonical List expressly states that the Apocalypse of Peter whilst received, is not sufficiently trusted to be read in the churches.

it might not be a matter of trust. it only says some are unwilling to have it read in church

"(71) We receive only the apocalypses of John and Peter, (72) though some of us are not willing that the latter be read in church."

I've never read that before. My info comes from a class on Eastern Orthodox Christianity, but it covered church history as well.

edit:order,clarity

it might not be a matter of trust. it only says some are unwilling to have it read in church

"(71) We receive only the apocalypses of John and Peter, (72) though some of us are not willing that the latter be read in church."

I've never read that before. My info comes from a class on Eastern Orthodox Christianity, but it covered church history as well.

In recent weeks I have been giving a great deal of thought to how believers walk, and how it is that on the one hand, we must walk by faith if we are to please the Lord, and on the other hand, how we must be led of the Holy Spirit in all things. At any point in this walk we can become off balance as we learn how to be led of the Holy Spirit, and at the same time still walk by faith when we do not know His clear leading.

I believe that this would be no less true for the apostles as well. With regard to the issue of scripture it may be possible to see that when the apostles were writing down the letters and books which eventually became Canon, they would have had to exercise their faith always, realising that their efforts were going to be very important. Peter acknowledged this point regarding Paul's letters "of some things which are difficult". In that process they would have to be completely dependant on the Holy Spirit, yet at times they would have been writing from memory as well as from inspiration. How do we strike that same balance?

At the same time as the apostolic fathers were reading out these letters and books in the churches some of them were also writing their own letters and books to the churches. They did it in their own hand, by faith, in their own calling of God. In this, lays their accountability and their reward. When others then have to decide which of these letters and books to include in the canon of scripture later on, they too had to walk by faith, be led of the Holy Spirit and at the same time take account to those traditions which they had knowledge of concerning the apostles themselves and the apostolic fathers.

In all things these men of the second and third century, were led of the Holy Spirit and at the same time they had to exercise their own reasonable minds. They were subject to the same need to be led, and yet had a calling to lead as well. How they did that is to their account in the day of the Lord. It seems to me therefore that given that we know that the foundation which the apostles and the prophets laid is Christ Himself crucified for sin, and that their names are written on the twelve gates of the New City, Jerusalem, we can and ought to take confidence fully in that which was by their hand. Absolutely none of the books and letters outside of canon can be directly attributed to these apostles directly. This includes the Revelation of Peter as well.

For these two reasons, the foundation which is laid, as well as the obedience of the apostles means that their labours are a matter of the faith once delivered to faithful men. The preaching of the gospel is a matter of faith. The scriptures are a matter of faith, the pseudo and apocryphal writing are a matter of intellect and not a matter of faith. The difference is a difference of receiving them privately and reading them publicly. Yet what ever we do it must be by faith and whatever is not of faith, is sin. To that we will have to give an account even as the apostolic fathers will also have to give an account.