Praying for persecution

John 15 :
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

I am not so sure that the Bible teaches us to pray for persecution but I must admitt that the Bible seems to clearly teach that persecution is part of the normal Christian life.

Thankyou for preparing us for the normal Christial life.

I understand the dynamics of persecution producing more godliness in the saints, but nowhere in the bible are we asked to pray the Lord to have us persecuted. On the contrary:

1 Timothy 2

2 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

We must learn to take the opportunities we have while we are still relatively free in our religious expression. It is our obligation to contribute to the common good of all people. Asking for persecution is as if a son asks his father to discipline him. No-no, it is much better to do what we are supposed to do than to misbehave and accept discipline.

1 Peter 2:20
For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.

Saints in countries that persecuted Christians are under push forces. We here in the West are under pull forces.
The same satanic force, just a different application. Perhaps it takes more resolve to prosper spiritually under freedom than under persecution.

We must learn to grasp the opportunities given to us know, regardless if we are persecuted or in liberty.

deleted double submission

Echoing narrowpath's comments, KingJimmy had discussed why praying for persecution is unbiblical in an earlier thread:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=51595&forum=35&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

When discussing persecution, I believe it is dangerous to focus on persecution in itself without focusing on Christ. It would only breed fear, without offering any notion of divine strength or hope.

The truth is that unless one fixes their mind on Christ, it would be very difficult to overcome adversity (be it nationwide persecution or other forms of individual suffering). Indeed, in John 16:33 - Christ reminds us that in spite of our troubles, He has overcome the world. He's telling us to look up, to look to Him!

The best way to prepare someone for the prospect of future persecution is thus to encourage them to focus not on their circumstances, but on Christ Himself - who is the source of all joy, hope and strength.

The wonderful thing is that we can learn to trust Christ and His love for us whatever situation we find ourselves in. It doesn't take persecution to bring that about, and is in fact the normal Christian life.

The Bible asked us to rejoice in trials and tribulations for the reason that it will purge and refine us to be a more suitable vessel for his cause . Persecution is certainly a form of trial and tribulation . So praying for it isnt unfounded on the Bible . Paul said "My strength is made perfect in weakness" Anything that will bond us more closely to Christ should be welcomed by the Christians. Especially so when we consider it will have the effect of rousing nonchalant saints to become passionate for Him . Persecution if it happens will save many currently lackadaisical souls from hell . So is it wrong to pray for it..?

Nevertheless I think its not necessary to pray for it . Persecution will arise on its own when enough Christians are lukewarm. If we dont overcome sin, sin and its agents will overpower us. Persecution then becomes inevitable

The Bible asked us to rejoice in trials and tribulations for the reason that it will purge and refine us to be a more suitable vessel for his cause . Persecution is certainly a form of trial and tribulation . So praying for it isnt unfounded on the Bible . Paul said "My strength is made perfect in weakness" Anything that will bond us more closely to Christ should be welcomed by the Christians. Especially so when we consider it will have the effect of rousing nonchalant saints to become passionate for Him . Persecution if it happens will save many currently lackadaisical souls from hell . So is it wrong to pray for it..?

Nevertheless I think its not necessary to pray for it . Persecution will arise on its own when enough Christians are lukewarm. If we dont overcome sin, sin and its agents will overpower us. Persecution then becomes inevitable

The Bible asked us to rejoice in trials and tribulations for the reason that it will purge and refine us to be a more suitable vessel for his cause . Persecution is certainly a form of trial and tribulation . So praying for it isnt unfounded on the Bible . Paul said "My strength is made perfect in weakness" Anything that will bond us more closely to Christ should be welcomed by the Christians. Especially so when we consider it will have the effect of rousing nonchalant saints to become passionate for Him . Persecution if it happens will save many currently lackadaisical souls from hell . So is it wrong to pray for it..?

Nevertheless I think its not necessary to pray for it . Persecution will arise on its own when enough Christians are lukewarm. If we dont overcome sin, sin and its agents will overpower us. Persecution then becomes inevitable

Why not just leave it to God to decide the means by which He chooses to purify His vessels?

When religious persecution is spoken of as *needed* for the purifying of the believer and the church at large, I cannot help but wonder if these ideas for spiritual growth belong to man rather than to God (I'm not aware of any biblical backing for such views). If one truly believes that, he is certainly invited to board the next flight to North Korea or Saudi Arabia.

Praying for persecution is similar to praying specifically for personal trials, poverty, and cancer so that we could draw nearer to Christ. I have prayed that I would know Christ more and that He become my only desire, but I don't pray for Him to use specific means to accomplish those ends.

God's ways and not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts (Isaiah 55). We do not need to instruct Him as to how He should exercise His sovereignty. God knows best and is in full control of our circumstances, and I am content in that.

An interesting thing to inject in this discussion is the fact that Jesus prayed: "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me, nevertheless not my will but thine be done." when he was about to face the worst for us.

If we sincerely pray: "Thy will be done" ... we are praying most appropriately. If in His omniscience He deems persecution as the most glorifying to Him ... may His perfect will be done. If He determines otherwise ... His will be done.

I could be wrong but when I read the initial post I sensed a tongue in cheek to the suggestion of praying for persecution. But, it caused me to keep reading, and the point is well taken.

Persecuted people sometimes view us as lacking and pray for us instead of asking for our prayers. Some of them see what we are too blinded by pride, affluence and cares of this life to see. And, because of this blindness, we are the real darkness and not they in the lands of their persecutors.

I think the opening paragraph is an honest effort to be ironic and not an actual urging to pray for persecution. At least that is how I understood it.

While I gladly accept persecution when it comes, and believe God can do great things through a persecuted church, persecution is not something we should actively pray for and seek. Indeed, Jesus said that though we would be persecuted, when we are, we are to flee to the next city. In other words , don't seek to stay around and be persecuted some more.

We pray thy kingdom come, thy will be done.

As it is, honestly, how do we in fact know that persecuted Christians in China are walking close with the Lord? Such notions smack of misty-eyed romanticism instead of reality. It might make for a good Ravenhill sermon, but it is frankly just bad theology.

Case in point, look at some such as Witness Lee and his movement. If anything they prove that some in China are damnable heretics, and persecution has done little to redeem them. In China you find every problem the church in America has... except maybe bad PowerPoint slides.

They are no better off than us. They are just as blessed as us.

I dare say Christians in China are no more blessed or better off than us in the West. My level of blessing doesn't have much to do with my geography or whether or not somebody has a knife to my throat. I am blessed to the degree I have been made to sit in heavenly places with Christ, and have been blessed with every spiritual blessing. I have been granted by his grace, everything pertaining to life and godliness.

*edited*

I agree with Narrow Path and Savanna. We
pray for those in authority so that we would
live quite and peaceable lives.

We don't need to pray for persecution
because it comes with the territory. "All
those that live godly in Christ Jesus shall
suffer persecution." (2Timothy 3:12).

"If they have persecuted me, they will
persecute you also." ( John 15:20)

We pray that the Church would be purified
and The Lord will send the refining fire
that will get the job done. Judgement
begins first in the house of God.

Mike

Hi Bear---

I think part of the problem at least for me is the perception that if we are not being persecuted or threatened on a daily basis that we should feel guilty about it. I am sorry about the persecution in Iraq and China but praise God I am not living there. If what you all are saying about persecution is correct then we will be experiencing it here soon enough.

In other words it is not my fault that we in the states are not persecuted like those elsewhere. That is Gods call, not mine. Yes we should be praying for them of course and we need to be ready. But we don't need to feel condemned because we are fortunate enough to be relatively free from persecution here.

We can make persecution an idol in a weird way.

The saints of the NT church exalted Jesus, not persecution. In fact, Paul gives a lot of "buts" in 2 Cor. 4 to describe how persecuted but not forsaken/abandoned they were. Of course, the persecuted church, real as it is, is not to blame for any romanticizing of it we Americans may do. But, we do glam it up in our minds.

Lord help us to endure our own self inflicted illusions and to see Your light. We dishonor You and Yours when we imagine vainly that the persecuted are somehow immune to temptation, reach super-spiritual status, or are closer to You because of persecution. At the same time, I thank You Lord that You have given them gold purified by fire, that they have in some measure we don't know overcome sin due to suffering in their bodies, that they do not reject You, and that You are glorified by them. I pray that they will endure to the end in faithfulness and truth. I pray that you will wake us from our slumber and revive us still. Cleanse and purify us, O Lord.

Amen!!

Persecution for born again believers come because of the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I believe it is wise and biblical to seek to be prepared for persecution. That's why I loved reading the Principles book. I believe it is good to pray for our hearts to be prepared for persecution be it mild or severe, that we may not deny His name when that time comes.

I also believe it is our duty to pray for the persecuted church around the world.

However, I do not believe it is wise nor biblical to pray for persecution or to focus that much attention on it, or to elevate the persecuted church above all other churches or Christians.

As has been stated on this thread, The Bible makes it clear that persecution is inevitable if we seek to truly live a godly life in Christ Jesus. I think a good prayer in light of that truth would be, "Lord, help me to live godly in Christ Jesus, and to prepare for inevitable persecution that comes with that."

A passage of Scripture that came to mind is 1Cor.7:17-24
"But as God has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each one, so let him walk. And so I ordain in all the churches. 18 Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called. 21 Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it. 22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ's slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called."

Verses 21 and 24 especially stand out to me here. God tells us in verse 21 that we are to take advantage of any opportunity we have to be outwardly free, so in light of that it wouldn't make sense to pray for persecution.

I'll post Matthew Henry's take on those two verses since I think he does a good job at breaking them down:

Verse 21
"Now," says the apostle, "art thou called being a servant? Care not for it. Be not over-solicitous about it. It is not inconsistent with thy duty, profession, or hopes, as a Christian. Yet, if thou mayest be made free, use it rather," v. 21. There are many conveniences in a state of freedom above that of servitude: a man has more power over himself, and more command of his time, and is not under the control of another lord; and therefore liberty is the more eligible state. But men's outward condition does neither hinder nor promote their acceptance with God. For he that is called being a servant is the Lord's freed-man””apeleutheros, as he that is called being free is the Lord's servant. Though he be not discharged from his master's service, he is freed from the dominion and vassalage of sin. Though he be not enslaved to Christ, yet he is bound to yield himself up wholly to his pleasure and service; and yet that service is perfect freedom. Note, Our comfort and happiness depend on what we are to Christ, not what we are in the world. The goodness of our outward condition does not discharge us from the duties of Christianity, nor the badness of it debar us from Christian privileges. He who is a slave may yet be a Christian freeman; he who is a freeman may yet be Christ's servant. He is bought with a price, and should not therefore be the servant of man.

Verse 24
"He sums up his advice: Let every man wherein he is called abide therein with God, v. 24. This is to be understood of the state wherein a man is converted to Christianity. No man should make his faith or religion an argument to break through any natural or civil obligations. He should quietly and comfortably abide in the condition in which he is; and this he may well do, when he may abide therein with God. Note, The special presence and favour of God are not limited to any outward condition or performance. He may enjoy it who is circumcised; and so may he who is uncircumcised. He who is bound may have it as well as he who is free. In this respect there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, barbarian nor Scythian, bond nor free, Col. 3:11. The favour of God is not bound."

"Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution."

"Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."

"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs””heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together."

"And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake."

""Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it."

In the book of Acts we see a certain pattern which I believe would be good for us to model in these last days. We see that the bold preaching of the gospel brought severe persecution to the early church. They did not pray for persecution. They prayed for boldness to preach the Word and God answered that prayer and filled them with the Holy Ghost and they spoke the Word of God boldly-Acts 4:30-31. Persecution was a by-product of the bold preaching of the gospel.

Just like the early church, we should pray for the Lord to fill us with the Holy Spirit and to grant us boldness to unashamedly preach the gospel as a lifestyle. That kind of bold proclamation of God’s Word will inevitably bring persecution our way, trust me.

The reason we’re not seeing much persecution in the West is because we’re not seeing much bold gospel-proclamation by the Body of Christ.

The moment you and I start taking a stand and proactively seek to share our faith verbally with the lost, get ready! Satan will come in full force and seek to attack you in various ways including physical persecution at times.

As has been pointed out, the focus needs to be on Jesus Christ, and on bringing Him the most glory by doing what He has called us to do.

Amen brother Greg as soon as I posted my post I saw yours.

There are a lot of holy brothers and sisters in this country. I have known many who love the Lord with all their heart. I would dare say most of us are among those, and have all known a small measure of momentary light affliction and persecution as a result.

I don't think it is right for you brother Greg, to slight the church as you have, simply because you don't think we aren't persecuted hard enough. Consider in your damning remarks that the church isn't the only religion actively persecuted in China. Other religions are too.

So, before you falsely exalt our Chinese brethren to a level of spirituality that we have not somehow obtained in the Americas, please consider people of other religions, and even false prophets themselves, are persecuted in China along with the church. Are these people more spiritual than us too?

Or consider the great saints in this nation who have come before us. Tozer and others lived very comfortable lifestyles with little to no persecution. They endured some social stigmas from time to time. But to my knowledge his life was never in peril. Was Tozer compromised? Or what of Ravenhill? No gang banger ever shot him while wandering around the ghettos of New York at night. Same with Wilkerson.

Consider that at the moment we are simply experiencing a measure of grace in which, like our Lord did at times, we are having great favor with men because of the measure of grace given to us at this present time. Things won't always be this way. Great darkness is coming, and soon. The early church experienced the same at times in Acts and elsewhere. It is not a strange thing to see in the Bible and church history.

But if you think God is going to start allowing people to cut our heads off to make us more spiritual and saintly, I think you are mistaken. Saints rejoice in persecution. Some even fall away. Things get glorious, but they also get messy.

God will cause us to grow because of grace, and the inward work of the Spirit. This happens in good times and bad.

Let us not blaspheme the blood of the martyrs. They pursued peace with all men. They do not pray or invite persecution on themselves. When they had opportunity, like the Puritans, they fled, just as our Lord instructed.

I do also believe it is good for us to be aware of the hardships of our persecuted brothers and sisters, for a number of reasons. For one, it is good so that we can better know how to pray for them. Also, the Lord uses their testimonies to stir us up unto good works and to help us see what is most important, which is our relationship with God and one another.

In all these things we must keep a proper balance or we will go to unhealthy and unbiblical extremes that will hinder rather than help us in our walk.

We are all growing in His grace and knowledge and I am thankful that the Lord is patient with me in all my misunderstandings. I am thankful that we do not have to have it all figured out to be His blood-bought children.

I personally don't think persecution will raise the level of the church in America, but will send the fake back to the world. Be careful for the Christians you are casting down in America. I believe the ones that would last through persecution when it comes are the ones who are doing everything they can now with the freedom they have.

The fact is we need revival. The masses need to be saved. The countries were falling apart when God used men like John Wesley, Jonathon Edwards and others to bring revival. I believe God is still leading and guiding. I see hope, not fear.

In Love,
Joe

Praying to be persecuted is a thought nowhere found in Scripture.

Meanwhile, there's 1 Tim 2:1-4:

"Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

It sure is a shame that God does not get what he desires.

TMK,

You asked us to keep you accountable. So I am.

"It sure is a shame that God does not get what he desires."

We both know what you mean by that.

I want to sort of lay out a foundation for what I am going to say and then present some alternative ideas to what is floating around in this thread.

I posted the scripture early that said that all those who want to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. That's what the Bible says and it doesn't put any ifs, ands, or buts on the end of that. It is what it is. Jesus also said that we should expect to be persecuted, "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

Also, if you look at acts, you can clearly see that Peter and John rejoiced because they were counted worthy to suffer for His name.

So I want to employ a little logic here: Jesus said that we are blessed if we suffer persecution for His name. He also said that we are blessed if the other things in Matthew 5 were true about us.

Should I pray that the Lord would make me more poor in spirit? What about meekness? Should I pray for that? What about being a peacemaker or mourning? What about hungering and thirsting for righteousness or all the rest? Should I say, "Nowhere in the Bible does it say to pray for those things." A part of praying in Jesus' name is saying to the Father, "Jesus Himself said and desires this." By our sufferings we are made more like Him. Go read 1 Peter 1:3-9 and see that.

We ought to pray that everything, including persecution, that Jesus said should happen to us would be fulfilled in our lives! The tragedy is when we pray for something, yet do nothing that would warrant such a change. If you pray that God makes you a peacemaker, but you make war with other people, do you think that God will have a successful time in transforming you, especially if you won't let your mind be renewed? If I pray that God would teach me to hunger and thirst for righteousness more, yet fill up my life with wordliness, do you expect that He would do anything. Sorry brothers, but faith without works is dead.

Persecution is promised to us, and I do not believe praying for it is wrong, just as praying that God would make us hunger and thirst for righteousness more is not wrong. HOWEVER: If you do not do anything that warrants suffering for His name's sake, don't expect God to answer your prayers.

The so-called church in America is not in danger of persecution, it is endanger of becoming sucked into worldliness. If you want to see the church grow into the Head of the Church as Ephesians says and for us to be counted worthy to suffer for His name, go and do that which is worthy to warrant such honor to the Lord--preach the Gospel.

The truth is that if Jesus is our goal--to know Him--then those things which the word says would happen to us, will happen to us. When I pray for the above things, it is a confession that I am not doing as I ought--abiding in Christ. Just look at what Paul said, "that I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His SUFFERING, being conformed to His death..." THAT is not some mamby-pamby, "Jesus please bless my finances" goal. It is what we were made for, to be like Him in everything, including suffering.

Jesus did not ask us to pray that our brothers and sisters around the world get murdered. If so, you should be bold and pray the power of specific prayers. Ask in faith. Name names. Anybody willing to volunteer? Maybe it can be part of the next prayer conference.

Maybe while we wait for Greg to volunteer his wife to be the first person we pray to die, we should pray that God turn up the heat on our Chinese or North Korean brethren? Not enough have died lately. China has been soft on them. There's been too much tolerance and they are starting to resemble the West.

See how absurd this sounds?

In Revelation we are told that those who have actually died the death of a martyr aren't asking the Lord to allow us to be further murdered. They are actually troubled over our deaths, and pray the Lord avenge our blood.

Sermon Index is a ministry that is starting to sound spiritually dangerous and cultish. Greg, I would plead with you, get out from behind the keyboard. Stop uploading sermons. If you aren't currently working a full time job 9-5 somewhere, for your own sanity brother, go find one. Maybe even pull the plug on this site for a while. Seriously, stop praying for people to die if you are actually doing so. I cannot even begin to tell you how egregious I think this is.

This isn't about death or about self-mortification.

This is about purification and the glory of God.

I do not hope that more people die or suffer, but I understand that the suffering and death are the will of the Father and that His name is glorified because of it.

Do I agree with everything on this forum about what is said in regards to persecution. No.

Is it wrong (sinful) to pray that the Lord would allow me to suffer for His sake? No. I do pray that sometimes, especially when I read in the scriptures regarding it. ESPECIALLY when I realize that the bible says that all who want to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will endure persecution.

Do I revel in it and think more highly of myself than I ought to when it does happen? I have, but the Lord is changing my attitude from day to day. I am no special breed of Christian when persecution comes. I am just a Christian. It happens to all of us, as the Scriptures say. God forbid that I should glory in anything, except the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ...

So, I seek Jesus and, persecution or peace, I strive to know Him. I also know that what He said will happen to us, will happen to us. I am no fool. It is coming.

I agree, greater persecution is coming, to what degree I do not know but it is coming. I believe the things Greg is sharing here is in an attempt to share what the LORD is showing him. We are called to live our lives daily unto the LORD. We are called to live righteous and holy lives unto the LORD so why is there so much compromise in those who profess to be HIS in this country? The Bible does tell us that those who are HIS will face persecution, that is a fact that many already live with daily because they want to live a life solely unto JESUS. If I am living my life in HIM, walking with HIM daily then the truth is someone, somewhere is going to hate me for it and may even attempt to persecute me for it. The Bible says it is so, does that mean that it will be the same kind of persecution for everyone everywhere, I don't know but I do know I want to live my life ready in HIM no matter what.

I believe the opening post is speaking to the heart and the attitudes of many who profess the name JESUS. The question that comes to my mind is, am I truly living for HIM so fully that I would willingly lay down my life for JESUS and others or am I holding on to treasures and cares of this world? Will those who profess HIS name truly hold fast until the end as other martyred saints have done? Following JESUS will cost you, if we are truly standing firm in HIM it will cost us everything...its all about the heart.

God bless
mj

I find it interesting the way the apostles and early believers prayed in the book of Acts when they were persecuted.

After Peter and John had their persecution for the incident of healing the lame man at The Beautiful Gate the believers prayed -

now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness. Acts 4:29-31 ESV

You must often confront persecution with the supernatural power of God to verify the message you carry. Recall Elijah on Carmel .... See the prayer of the Apostles above .... if heavy persecution comes then we better be praying for the supernatural to flow and be in a place in our lives that we can demonstrate, "signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

This supernatural working of God through His followers to "confirm His word with signs following" combined with boldly declaring an uncompromised Gospel defeats persecution of the enemy .... not hiding in a rabbit holes.

Persecution does not purify the church. It causes those who merely "play church" to flee from it. It may APPEAR to purify because those who were not truly born again flee from the heat. However, persecution can not obtain purity. It is the blood of Christ that purifies and cleanses from sin ... not persecution. The power of the blood of Christ far exceeds the power of persecution.

Witness boldly, pray for and demonstrate supernatural signs, wonders, and healings by God's Hand. That is exactly how we see the apostles confronting and winning their world in the face of severe persecution.

Brother you ARE TOTALLY OUT OF LINE regarding your comments about Greg. The comment about his wife Brandy was WAY OUT OF LINE.

The Bible no where tells us to pray for persecution, What the Bible does teach however is that all Christians are in a Spirtual War.
The fallacy I feel with this thread is that it seems to give the impression that Western Christians are somehow excempt from this battle, that they somehow have no problems thus they have no need to cling to God, But the fact is we are all in the battle.

I would highly recommend this David Wilkerson sermon to all the readers and responders to this thread : The Private War of a Saint :
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=15852&commentView=itemComments

We know how David prayed when He was persecuted.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith””the salvation of your souls.

Peter says that suffering purifies our faith. Persecution, sickness, loss of anything, etc..."that the genuineness of your faith...may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ..."

Brother you ARE TOTALLY OUT OF LINE regarding your comments about Greg. The comment about his wife Brandy was WAY OUT OF LINE.

I have nothing personal against Greg or his wife. I don't even know his wife's name. I only made reference to her to highlight the reality of what we are talking about, because I don't feel this absurd idea of praying for God to send men to kill us is being taken seriously enough.

I mentioned her only to put a face on what we are actually talking about. We are talking about the martyrdom of real people here. If you are angered over my reference to her, then I think you are getting angry at the wrong person. I'm not the one here talking about praying for God to send persecution of the church to the West. I'm not the one praying for somebody to be murdered.

This is not the first time the idea has floated around on Sermon Index. And frankly, I find the idea repulsive. The idea should be banned from here with the same swiftness at which other bad and repugnant ideas are quickly dealt with.
It should be treated as a heresy that must be stomped out.

Jimmy I can overlook your comments as youthful zeal. But you seriously need to apologize to Greg about your reference to his wife.

Unless I've misunderstood what has been said, I see no reason to apologize.

Also, while we are at it...

Nobody here denies that godly living invites persecution. Scripture clearly says so. Nobody here denies being persecuted is a blessed thing. Scripture clearly says so. Nobody here denies there is a slumber in the church in America. That is a self evident truth.

Are you aware that the OP is cut and paste from the link to another website? Brother Greg did not write this...you know what they say about ASS-U-ME :)

Yes.

I will take your post in love and not literal in every aspect.

Of course, I know we don't really interact anymore, but I believe you know my heart brother. I mean no ill will whatsoever.

I personally am not scared or sad for the time if we ever came to it as a family that we would be martyrs for the Lord Jesus Christ. I am sure most of us will agree in the end that we will stand our Lord in that time if we have to.

Amen