Andrew Strom says NO to the RC Church and JPII ...

RETHINKING the POPE??-by Andrew Strom.In the great outpouring of grief and eulogy that have accompaniedthe death of the Pope, there is something that disturbs me greatly.I hate to always be the one to "rain on the parade", but there aresome pretty basic issues that I believe we need to look at here.There is no doubt that the last pope was a man of very great accomplishments. He broke through many barriers and was truly one of the most effective leaders the Catholic Church has had in modern times. I don't think we can question that.But what I would like to question is the organization that he washeading, and the 'gospel' that he represented. It truly disturbs me when I hear of Evangelical leaders praising his overall messageand even calling him a 'great evangelist' or a 'great Christian leader'.Is the Reformation null and void, then? Shall we simply fold up our tents and go back to Rome?There is something very disturbing in the reaction that has comefrom these quarters - including the 'prophets', the Pentecostalsand the "Protestants" (so-called). It makes me very uneasy.Much has been made of the estimated 100 million Catholics whohave now been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This is certainly worthrejoicing over. But what of the other 900 million who are lockedinside a system that preaches no "new birth" and no conversion -but rather salvation by works, rituals and the 'sacraments' of thechurch? Is such a "gospel" acceptable?Is it acceptable to 'sprinkle' little babies and then tell them theyare "saved" so long as they go to Mass and go to 'confession'and receive the other 'sacraments'? Is it acceptable to pray toMary (the 'Queen of Heaven') or to the saints, or to ivory statues? Is it acceptable to call a man 'Holy Father'? Is it acceptable toforbid ministers from marrying, thus bringing about a delugeof sexual abuse and scandal? Is any part of the way the Catholicsystem is set up actually acceptable at all? Does any of it haveeven the slightest resemblance to the New Testament?The fundamentals of Catholicism have not changed since Luther'sday. The last pope altered little or none of these fundamentals. Theyhave not changed since the Dark Ages. And they make up a system that is sending millions upon millions of people to an eternal Hell.They simply offer NO SALVATION WHATSOEVER. But what theydo offer is a "counterfeit" version of salvation - that keeps millionsin chains of darkness. Go and visit Latin America sometime, and see the dark superstition that often passes for Catholicism in those countries. Watch as they parade their statues through the streets for the crowds to bow down to. This is no "Christianity" at all. And it holds MILLIONS in its sway.We need to remember that when elected Pope in 1978, Karol Wojtyla dedicated his papacy to Mary and had words of devotion to her embroidered on his papal robes. In his 1994 autobiography he said: "During the Second World War, while I was employed as a factory worker, I came to be attracted to Marian devotion.... Mary is the new Eve, placed by God in relation to Christ, the new Adam."John Paul II venerated Mary on every occasion, private and public.It was his custom to pray the Rosary before an image of Mary on the first Saturday of every month. He continually exalted Mary in his sermons. We are told that on his trip to Latin America in 1996 he "ended every speech by exalting Mary" (Christianity Today, April 8,1996, p. 94).I knew an intercessor in New Zealand who was an ex-Catholic.She was one of the most anti-Catholic people that I knew. Why?Because she spent over 20 years of her life brought up in thatsystem - diligently seeking God. Going to Mass, saying the'Rosary', going to confession and so-on. And she was in completespiritual DARKNESS unitl she came out and embraced the true gospel. If she was still in there she would probably be UNSAVED STILL.I am sorry to have to be the one to point out all of this. But why is it that the current crop of leaders seem so willing to give up 500 years of Reformation truth in order to be "politically-correct" and find "unity" with the Catholic system? I received the following email last week, which helps bring all of this into focus: (From an Ex-catholic priest): When a man bows before an idol of ivory, begging for salvation, and you tell him it cannot answer - is this hate? When someone's little girl...must tell her thoughts, her emotionsand temptations to an unmarried priest in the confession box, and you tell her she need only confess to Jesus - is this hate? When a poor grieving widow pays from her meagre substance for Masses for her dead husband, desperately hoping to end his pain in purgatory, and you tell her there is no purgatory - is this hate? When one billion souls, for whom Christ died, trust a well-fedpontiff dressed in gold and fine linen to give them the keys to Heaven, and you tell them they need no one but Jesus - is this hate? When Jesus, God's gift of love to all mankind, pointed his finger at the Pharisees and called them so many snakes - was this hate? When the Apostle Paul stood on Mars Hill and dared tell thephilosophers of pagan mystery religion that they were too superstitious - was this hate? NO! To free a man from Satan's chains, you must first tell him he is a prisoner. You must convince him that he is lost and without hope... There are those who call [evangelical] literature "hate literature." But they do not know the true meaning of hate. True hatred hides the gospel in beautiful words that upset no one, and therefore bring no conviction of sin. True hatred stands in selfish silence as hell's population grows.God bless you, my friends.-Andrew Strom.... i agree!

I must say I agree here. I visited in 2001 the Loretto Chapel in New Mexico wanting to see the notorious spiral staircase. I had never been in a Catholic church. The staircase was neat, but when you turn around there were all these images that greatly disturbed my spirit. Their doctrine is wildly off. The reformation was a God ordained phenomena and we cannot surrender the advancements of that. I am not bashing Catholic's here. We have to stand our ground. God Bless,-Robert

*Edit below*NOTE: Below are some of the more interesting and insightful responses we got on the subject of the POPE and CATHOLICISM:----------------------------------------------------DR writes:I’ve been stunned over the past few days following the death of Pope John Paul II by the overwhelming outpouring of praise for his life and legacy. Both Evangelicals as well as one prominent Charismatic leader have expressed their remorse at his passing.What has shocked me the most is the way they have spoken about him. One Charismatic leader refers to him as, and I quote, “A true Saint”, “The most remarkable leader of our time”, “a man of God”, “a leader who blessed and advanced the whole Church and indeed, the cause of Christianity itself” and “one of the greatest men of God of our time”. --------------------------------------------------Len Carter writes:I was raised a Roman Catholic and when I was saved (a powerful 'on the road to Damascus' type of salvation) I realized that the teaching that I had grown-up under all of my life was not merely flawed... it was false!..... I was not merely exposed to Roman Catholicism, I was deeply entrenched in the culture and life of Roman Catholicism and I can assure you that it is nothing more and nothing less than a teaching of "salvation by works and ritualobservances".--------------------------------Claire Gidman writes:In reading the pope's last will and testiment, I was so disappointed to see that he placed his life, death, country, Church and world in the hands of Mary, Mother of God! This man had the ear of the world and it just saddened me that he could not leave to the world the message of knowing Christ as Lord and Savior.-------------------------------------------------Don Hawley writes:You have lived to see a marvel in your own lifetime. Via television you witnessed millions of people traveling to a single city, Rome, to pay obeisance to a single man, Pope John II.This vast crowd included presidents, kings, religious leaders, Muslims, Jews, and Orthodox priests. For each person present in Rome, there were multitudes back home equally in awe. Never before has the world seen such an outpouring of respect and admiration.As I say, this is a marvel. But perhaps an even greater marvel, is that the person receiving all this adulation heads up an organizationresponsible for the torture and murder of millions of people.... Many are simply unaware of this dark chapter of history, while othersconsider it impolite to dig up the past. However, to ignore history may be to invite its repetition.... The noted historian Will Durant observed: "Compared with the persecution of heresy in Europe from 1227 to 1492, the persecution of Christians by Romans in the first three centuries after Christ was a mild inhumane procedure."The Demise of Protestantism:The name Protestantism derives from the word "protest." The great reformers and martyrs of the past were "protesters" against the abuses of the Roman Catholic Church. Many of them, along with millions of ordinary laypeople, died for taking such a stand.The United States of America has long been known as a Protestant nation, but that title can no longer be claimed in honesty. On March 29, 1994, leading American Evangelicals and Catholics signed a joint declaration titled "Evangelicals and Catholics Together." For all practical purposes, Protestantism died that day.The New York Times announced, "In what's being called a historic declaration, Evangelicals including Pat Robertson and Charles Colson [one of the chief originators], joined with conservative Roman Catholic leaders today in upholding the ties of faith that bind the nation's largest and most politically active religious groups." Otherevangelical endorsers included leaders from the Southern Baptist Convention, Bill Bright, Mark Noll, Jesse Miranda, J.I. Packer, Os Guinness and Herbert Schlossberg.Other non-Catholic religious leaders have expressed similar leanings: "I don't know anyone more dedicated to the great fundamental doctrines of Christianity than the Catholics." -- W.A. Criswell, former President - Southern Baptist Convention."I've found that my beliefs are essentially the same as those of orthodox Roman Catholics." -- Billy Graham.Robert Schuller stated that he didn't want to dedicate his Glass Cathedral until he traveled to Rome and received the special blessing of the Pope.The Heart of the Matter:Verbose as the 1994 declaration may have been, it conveniently ignored the very heart of the matter - what it means to be a Christian. This compromise of the gospel lies at the heart of the agreement.America is now post-Protestant, and a frightening new conglomerate is forming. Yes, you have seen a marvel in Rome during these past few days, but the near future holds even more startling developments. Ernest Christians need to understand the times.Soon it will be dangerous to one's physical well-being to write articles like this. -------------------------------Chris and Erika Hamby write:In 1870 the church pronounced the doctrine of papal infallibility AND she has pronounced the doctrine of the 'immaculate conception' and also the doctrine of the 'assumption of Mary' so that the Catholic church today is actually doctrinally WORSE than in Luthers day. ----------------------------------Donna Martonfi writes:I am an ex-Catholic (now an evangelist) and I am astounded at how many in the evangelical community are singing the praises of this pope. Many 'immature Christians' are weeping and grieving the passing of this pope! There is MUCH deception in the Body of Christ and somebody somewhere has got to tell them....-------------------------------------------M.R writes: .... I have since become a Catholic, a born again Charismatic Catholic and am happy to be one.But my concern with the pope is not the part of the Catholic church that is fading away - all that you mentioned in your letter, but what you didn't mention. Like the pope ordaining as a priest a Voodoo witch doctor still praciticing his craft. His explanation? As I under-stand it he said that since this witch doctor was coming under his authority as the head of the Catholic church, the witch doctor was a Christian in full communion with Rome and therefore with God. (My loose paraphrasing, I know, but that is my understanding of what was said.) Or what about the meeting he headed a few Decembers ago when all of the religions of the world signed a covenant together officially forming a united organization of religions? Or what about the World Day of Peace he had in Assissi, where he had all of the leaders of the world's religions meet to pray and make proclamations of peace as a response to what happened on 9-11. He sat himself in the middle of a platform a little to the right. The leaders of the Christiandenominations were all seated to the left... When each came to the podium from further to the left than the pope was sitting, they each bowed to the pope before speaking, except the leader of the "African Native Religion".I'm sorry, but this is what REALLY scares me about him and his leadership!.... moving to the one world church.......----------------------------------Edit: wanted to make sure that people know that this came from Andrew Stroms list. Sorry about that. :-(

The entire chapter of Revelation 17 is describing the Roman Catholic Church as the Great Whore.I have studied in depth how after the Catholic Church (It was just "the Church" in those days) headed west from Jerusalem in the late first and early second century it opened itself up to all sorts of madness. It truly is a disturbing mixture of paganism and Christianity. You can take a look at some of the research here if you wish:The Church Heads West (Part I)

Hi Stephen,Just a couple of things. Up to the point of your response didn't see anything prior that could be construed as hate, what of the response from the ex-Catholic, maybe 'hate' towards the system...But that is really besides the point.Was raised as a Catholic and frankly the vast majority of regular church goers would not even know what the church believes in many of it's core doctrines that we would have much dispute with. I certainly didn't. It wasn't until many years later that I was stunned to find out so many of these things.Of course neither did I learn Who Jesus really was and what that meant. I learned a little bit about Him, but certainly and I believe this is really the heart of the matter and of a serious and grave reflection;Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. And just as well;Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. No one.Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. No 'other'.First, i do not know how you conclude that the RCC is the 'Great Whore'. Second, God does not hate anyone. People hate...and that's exactly what i'm concerned about. Sometimes we almost sound as though we want people to go to Hell - heaven forbid!! God is LOVE.First, I would agree somewhat, possible? Certainly... but I don't know. A good place to interject this here. A tremendous job on Church history was done by Edgar F. Parkyns. Here is a thread with links to the series. This should be a must hear series in my estimation, just an incredible job on not only history but eschatology as well. A different look than what is on the current popular menu.Edgar F. Parkyns on Church History - 10 SessionsSecondly, though we have been around this topic before that would be a misunderstanding to say that God does not hate, the difference is in what we tend to think of with this word and what it would mean from His perspective.Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers1 upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate8130 me; Exo 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.H8130שׂנאśânê'saw-nay'A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.Psa 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate8130 evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked. Psa 139:22 I hate8130 them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate8130: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate8130 robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The fear of the Lord is almost practically gone from our modern day thinking. Noah's ark and then the door was closed.Soddom and Gommorah.Maybe hate isn't what should be of concern;Deu 9:7 Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the LORD thy God to wrath in the wilderness: from the day that thou didst depart out of the land of Egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the LORD. Exo 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. Exo 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? Eze 22:31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD. Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Rom 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.Hard to express sentiment here, am not wound up in the least personally, but we cannot divorce God's Holiness, Righteousness and Justice from His love. He is altogether other than we are.Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I have to agree with Stephen on this. There is a difference between being concerned and being hateful. I don't think it's accurate to assume that Revelation 17 is talking about the RCC. That's like trying to point a finger to who the anti-christ is and what the date of the second coming is. It's all skepticism. I'm also amazed that it was spoken on here that the Pope is in hell. You almost sound glad about it. Ultimately none of us know the Popes heart nor do we know what his relationship with Christ was like.When Christ spoke against those who opposed God He did not speak to them with kind words, He was harsh. We should also take on the same attitude as it pertains to speaking out against false doctrine, sin and blasphemies against God. Souls depend on it and so there can be no nicey-nicey. As for the assumption that the great whore refers to the rcc, many people have had that revelation from God and have had it confirmed by others being shown the same thing. It's not coincidence that the church is so powerful as to make kings lie in its bed of spiritual fornication or many other saints for that matter, or that many people were slaughtered by this church, or even that Rome itslf is built on 7 hills. From it will come the foundations of the 1 religion for the world, any dissenters from that will find the world an ugly place at that time.

At the Interfaith Day of Prayer for Peace, Assisi, 1986, the Pope stands with, from left: Bishop Gabriel of Palmyra, representative of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch, Archbishop of Canterbury Robert Runcie, Archbishop Methodios of Thyateria/Great Britian and representative of the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, the Dalai Lama, the Venerable Maha Ghosananda, the Venerable Eui-Hyun Seo of Korea, and the Venerable Etai Yamada of Japan.

The article below is taken from:hereAs we dig in the ecumenical walls for 1986 the most striking event we see is the Day of Prayer for World Peace. Never before in Christian history has there been a clearer fulfillment of the New Testament prophecies of the great falling away from the faith and of the formation of the Harlot one-world religion. Indeed, in this now famous peace meeting we see that the hour is very, very late, brethren.In the center of this amazing event we see a rather short, but cheerful man, who claims to be the sole successor to the Apostle Peter and the Head of all Christians. Gathered around Peter’s supposed successor are all sorts of leaders of other religions--religions Peter considered heathen and godless. What are these men and women doing? Why, they have come together, they say, to pray to their gods for world peace!The now famous meeting which was held in Assisi, Italy, in October, 1986, was first announced by John Paul II January 25 of that year. The announcement was made during a Mass in Rome marking the end of the Christian Unity Week. The official Vatican newspaper reports the pope’s words on the occasion of the announcement:"‘Peace within the Church and peace with all mankind.’ The words of Pope Gregory VII are particularly appropriate in this year 1986, which the United Nations Organization has proclaimed as the International Year of Peace. ... In regard to this matter, I wish to announce on this solemn occasion that I am initiating opportune consultations with the leaders, not only of the various Christian Churches and communions, but also of the other religions of the world, to organize with them a special meeting of prayer for peace, in the city of Assisi ... The date and de tails of this meeting will be decided as soon as possible" ("Pope’s Announcement in St. Paul’s Basilica: Meeting of Prayer for Peace with all Religious Leaders," L’osservatore Romano, 10 February 1986, page 19).It was, by the way, from this same location on Jan. 25, 1959, that the late Pope John XXIII announced his decision to convene Vatican Council II (RNS report of January 27, 1986).WHO WAS THERE? Altogether there were 160 participants at the prayer meeting for peace in Assisi, October 26, 1986 (Rocky Mountain News, Denver, Colorado, October 28, 1986). Let us note some of those who attended this affair:The "Christian" leaders represented 32 denominations, whose adherents number 3.5 billion people, or 70 percent of the world’s population! This was certainly no small affair. And if someone complains that these leaders did not represent the people of their denominations and organizations, we respond with two questions: First, if the leaders who attended this abominable affair did not represent the people of the denominations and organizations they head, why were they chosen as leaders of such denominations? Secondly, if the people of these denominations and organizations considered the actions of these leaders apostate, why weren’t the leaders rebuked, discipled and put out from their churches, denominations and organizations? Silence and inactivity in the face of evil is as wicked as direct participation!The "Christian" leaders came from many ecumenical organizations--The World Council of Churches, represented by its executive secretary and three of its seven presidents, the World YWCA, the World Alliance of YMCAs, Friends World Committee for Consultation, Mennonite World Conference, Reformed Ecumenical Synod, Baptist World Alliance, Disciples of Christ, World Alliance of Reformed Churches, Lutheran World Federation, Anglican Communion, Old Catholic Union of Utrecht, the Assyrian Church of the East, all Orthodox churches. Also invited were 15 Roman Catholic bishops, and leaders of six Roman Catholic Franciscan organizations (EPS, 26-31 October 1986, 86.10.121).Among the "Christian" leaders present were--John Paul II, head of Roman CatholicismRobert Runcie, Archbishop of Canterbury, head of the worldwide Anglican and Episcopal denominationEmilio Castro, head of the World Council of Churches Greek OrthodoxArchbishop Methodios of Thyateira and Great Britain, archbishop and delegate of Ecumenical Patriarch DimitriosGunnar Stalsett, Executive Secretary of the Lutheran World FederationAllan Boesak, South Africa’s anti-apartheid activist and president of the World Alliance of Reformed ChurchesMetropolitan Filaret, head of Russian Orthodox ChurchMother Teresa, Roman Catholic nunSusanna Telewona, a vice-president of the Lutheran World FederationNita Barrow and Marga Buhrig, two of the WCC presidentsBernice Schrotenboer, representing her husband, the Reformed Evangelical Synod general secretaryVal Ferguson, general secretary of Friends World Committee for Consultation (Quakers)Lydia Breen and Doreen Boyd, on the World YWCA staff in GenevaManuela Mattioli and Christiane Witmers, two Catholic Franciscan leaders Also represented at the Day of Prayer for World Peace were leaders of 11 non-Christian religions: Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jews, Muslums, African and North American animists (who worship spirits and nature), Japanese Shintoists, fire-worshipping Zorastrians, Baha’i. The Dalai Lama, exiled Buddhist leader who is supposed to be the god-king of Tibet, was at the forefront of the activities, as was Elio Toaff, chief Jewish rabbi of Rome (EPS, 26-31 October 1986, 86.10.121). The Dalai-Lama and John Paul II have become close friends, and the Buddhist god-king was seated at the immediate left hand of the pope. It should be noted that all of these leaders worship false gods and are therefore breakers of the 1st commandment of God’s Holy Law--"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:3) WHAT TRANSPIRED AT THE EVENT?The events of the Day of Prayer for World Peace were divided into four main parts: First was the greeting by Pope John Paul II, who was the organizer and main leader of the program. The participants then moved to various places in the city for two hours of private prayers, after which they came back together and held prayers in the presence of one another. Finally, following a few other rituals for peace, there was a supper and the farewell address by the pope.An interesting description of some of the strange events at Assisi last October is given in an Associated Press report:"ASSISI, Italy--Chants, temple bells and pagan spells echoed around the Roman Catholic shrines of Assisi yesterday as Pope John Paul II and his 200 guests from the world’s 12 main religions prayed for world peace..."The medicineman of the Crow Indians [spirit worshippers], Chief John Pretty-on-Top, offered to cast out evil spirits. Many came forward, among them a young Franciscan monk."In a chapel down the road, the head of the Zorastrian church in Bombay prayed before a fire that symbolized his God."Next door, six turbanned Sikhs--all Italian converts--sat chanting their prayers in the lotus position to gramophone music."At an old Roman temple, shoeless Moslems sat on prayer mats."The 14th Dalai Lama, exiled god-king of Tibet, headed the strong Buddhist contingent, mumbling sutras amid tinkling bells at the Basilica of St.Peter."In the gardens outside, a Shinto sect called Tenrikyo, in black kimonos, swayed to temple music."African animists, their togas the envy of any designer, invoked the spirits of trees and plants to come to the aid of peace..."The Pope made three speeches" (Gazette News Services, taken from AP, Chicago Tribune and reproduced in Christian Beacon, December 25, 1986, p. 7).WHAT PRAYERS WERE SAID?Examples of the kinds of prayers that were offered to the false gods are seen in the prayers of the animists from Africa and North America:Two tribal animists from Africa intoned, "Almighty God, the Great Thumb we cannot evade in tying any knot, the Roaring Thunder that splits mighty trees, the All-Seeing Lord up on high who sees even the foot prints of an antelope on a rock mass here on earth... you are the cornerstone of peace." Smoking a ceremonial peace pipe, John Pretty-on-Top, a Crow Indian medicine man from Montana in full-feathered headress, recited, "O Great Spirit, I raise my pipe to you, to your messengers the four winds, and to mother earth, who provides for your children... I pray that you bring peace to all my brothers and sisters of this world" ("A Summit for Peace in Assisi," Time, November 10, 1986, pp. 78-79).There you have it--the report of one of the most abominable event that has ever taken place on this earth since the rebellion of Adam and Eve. This was an event more abominable than the building of the Tower of Babel. At least there is no record that the leaders of that crowd were claiming to be God’s children. Further, this was more abominable than the formation of the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox and other false denominational systems. At least these systems claim to be Christian. But in this Day of Prayer for World Peace we have the coming together of those claiming to be followers of Jesus Christ with those who boldly profess that Jesus Christ is not the only God and Savior, who boldly claim that the God of the Bible is not the only true God. What an infamous day!AN HOUR OF GREAT DARKNESSThis Day of Prayer for World Peace at Assisi was a day of great spiritual darkness. The evidence of that darkness we have seen in the event itself.The prophecy that it would be a day of darkness was given in the speech January 25, 1986, when John Paul II announced the event:"On 25 January, the closing day of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, John Paul II celebrated Mass in St. Paul’s Outside the Walls in the presence of representatives of other Christian Churches and religious communities. The following is a translation of his homily delivered in Italian. ‘A great light from heaven suddenly shone about me’ (Acts 22:6)... On this path of prayer and service trodden together by brothers of different ecclesial communities, may we be guided effectively and clearly by the light that won over Paul, and may we be urged onwards by the intercession and example of the saints. Let us invoke the protection of Paul, and also of a Pope who lived here as monk and abbot, Gregory VII, Hildebrand of Soana" (EPS, 26-31 October 1986, 86.10.121).Though the pope of Rome called this event a day of light, we see that it was a day of darkness by the very fact that he invoked the prayers of the dead, something the Bible forbids. Nowhere in Scripture do we see God’s people praying to the dead. That One Name given whereby we come unto God in prayer is Jesus Christ! So we see in the Pope’s announcement, that this would be a day of darkness.Finally, we know this was a day of darkness because the prayers for peace were not answered. Heaven was brass. God’s ear was closed to the abominations of that day. The nations have not laid down their arms. The spiritual darkness under which the event at Assisi was held is seen in the fact that the religious leaders gathered there completely ignored God’s warning in 1 Thessalonians 5 --"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."What a dark day!Oh yes, in conclusion we must mention the fact that this was also the day of what we consider to have been--THE YEAR’S BIGGEST LIEThe following was reported in the World Council’s Ecumenical Press Service, 26-31 October 1986:"As had the pope in his welcome, Roger Cardinal Etchegary, president of the Pontifical Commission for Justice and Peace, stressed in opening the series of acts of prayer in the square that there was to be no mixing of religions. ‘We have come together,’ he said, ‘in complete faithfulness to our own religious traditions, well aware of the identity of each of our own faith commitments. We are here together without any trace of syncretism’" (EPS, 26-30 October 1986, 86.10.121).It is appropriate, I suppose, that the biggest lie of the year accompanied the most spiritually abominable event of the year. After bringing together representatives of most of the world’s religions, after calling one another brothers and sisters, after praying together or at least respecting one another’s prayers and rituals, after marching together in a peace march, making speeches to one another, supping together--after such unadulterated yoking together of Christians with non-Christians, the claim was made that "We are here together without any trace of syncretism." Oh, my, what a lie!I hope we can cause our readers to understand that false teachers do lie.Some Christians cannot seem to believe that men who appear to be so good, so holy, so religious--could speak lies. But the Bible repeatedly warns that false teachers are liars, deceivers, wolves in sheep’s’ clothing, those who creep in unawares, those whose "good words and fair speeches’ are designed purposely to deceive the hearts of the simple. False and disobedient Christians lie.Friends, if this event at Assisi was not syncretism in action, there is no syncretism. If this event at Assisi was not open rebellion to the Word of God, there is no rebellion. The fact is that the good words and fair speeches of these rebels do not deceive us. This event was perhaps the greatest act of syncretism and rebellion toward Scripture in church history. If the Christian leaders participating in this event had been faithful to God they would have done the following things:1. If they were not syncretistic and rebellious they would not have come together in close fellowship and spiritual harmony with those who follow and serve false gods. Keep in mind that these men sat together, worshipped together, spoke to one another on the same spiritual theme, marched together, performed rituals together, supped together. Yet the Bible commands:"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you" (2 Corinthians 6:14-17). 2. If they were not syncretistic and rebellious they would have rebuked the false, heathen ways of the non-Christian leaders and would have preached to them the one, true Gospel of salvation through the Blood of Jesus Christ.This, of course, would have spoiled the man-made harmony of the event and was not done. Another reason is that the Christian leaders present were themselves apostate and do not believe in the Gospel of the Blood Atonement of Christ. These Christians leaders do not know how one is born again and accept anyone as a Christian who has been baptized or confirmed or who makes any sort of feeble claim to be a Christian. The writings, speeches and actions of the World Council of Churches, John Paul II, Mother Teresa, the WCC presidents and others present make it clear that they are not convinced the non-Christian is lost. This is why they could come together in so happy and peaceful fellowship with the heathen leaders.3. If they were not syncretistic and rebellious they would not have acknowledged the prayers of the heathen. It is true that during part of the event the prayers were held privately in separate places. But during another part of the event, the prayers and rituals were performed in the presence of one another. John Paul II and Emilio Castro watched as the North American spirit-worshipper and the African nature-worshippers danced and spoke the foolish prayers we have printed above. The Christian leaders present accepted such unscriptural prayers as efficacious. The very fact that they believed that somehow the prayers of these heathen could help bring world peace proves that they believed the true God of Heaven would hear and answer the prayers of Christian and non-Christian alike.Further, John Paul II affirmed that he believed the prayers of the heathen religious leaders would be effective and heard by God. Consider what he said about these non-Christian prayers: "It is therefore urgent that an invocation rise in chorus, and with insistence, from the earth toward heaven, to ask the Omnipotent One, in whose hands lies the destiny of the world, for the great gift of peace," he said. (The Tidings, official Roman Catholic newspaper of the Los Angeles diocese, April 11, 1986, p.1)The pope emphasized the spiritual nature of the meeting by saying that the convening of such diverse groups, "Should constitute a coming together of a vast movement of reflecting and prayer, in which followers of EVERY RELIGIOUS FAITH should feel themselves involved" (Foundation, May-June 1986, page 18; The Tidings, official Roman Catholic newspaper of the Los Angeles diocese, April 11, 1986, p. 1).I repeat, if this meeting at Assisi was not syncretistic, the word should be removed from our dictionaries. If the Christian leaders involved are not rebels against God’s Word, the very concept of apostasy is a myth.The hour is very, very late, my friends. Are you saved? Do you know that your sins are forgiven and that you have eternal life through the Blood of Christ? Are you then living an obedient life for Christ? Are you scripturally baptized by immersion as a picture of Christ’s death, burial and resurrection? Are you a faithful member of a sound New Testament local church? Are you busy serving God and waiting for Christ’s return? Are you separated from the apostasy of these last days? I trust the answer is yes.Jesus Christ warned, "Watch, therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." The hour, obviously, is late.

Brother Stephen you wrote;"Second, God does not hate anyone. People hate"Hmmmm ... scripture (from OT thru NT) seems to state otherwise ... Deut.16[22] Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth.Pss.5[5] The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.Prov.6[16] These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:[17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,[18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,[19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.Zech.8[17] And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.Mal.1[3] And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.Mal.2[16] For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.Rom.9[13] As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.Saints are supposed to hate what God hates, but vengeance belongs solely to the Lord so that i think it pretty safe to take the stance of hating the sin, and not the sinner ... Case in point while Holy Spirit may lead saints to witness against abortion He'd never lead saints to blow up an abortion clinic ... Do you think it was actually a God ordained movement of Holy Spirit that inspired the RC church to slaughter pagans then incorporate satans way into Gods way to appease those that surrendered, or kick off the Crusades to the slaughter of untold numbers of Moslems and Jews, or murder subsequent Protestant Christians who didn't agree with them? ... Would you believe it to be a movement of Holy Spirit today if some satanically inspired visionary told us God wanted us to kill Catholics? ... i don't think you would now, and hope you wouldn't have then ... So in the case of the RC church i totally concur with Krisp ...Quote;"but I do not hate Catholics. I have a righteous hatred for the Catholic Church"This last hate of Rev.2:6 & 15 i've saved in reference to the Catholic Church ..."But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate"Do you know why God hates Nocolaitan doctrine (which the RC church personifies)? ...The term “Nicolaitans” is derived from two greek words ...“Nikos" and “Laos” ... Nikos is defined as: a conquest; victory; triumph; to conquer; and by implication, dominancy over the defeated ... The word "nicao" literally means; to dominate-intimidate-manipulate. Additionally, the term "laos" means "the people” or the “laity” ... Thus exacting the phrase “to conquer(dominate-intimidate-manipulate) the people (laity).The Nicolaitan movement marked the beginning of an unrighteous priesthood in the church, blatant within the Roman Church, and much more masked in Protestantism, but regardless is still there ... The first item on the Nicolaitan agenda is to divide in order to conquer ... The primary objective of the Nicolaitan spirit is the separation of the Body from the Lord’s provision for leadership, and the insight given through that spiritual authority, namely the Holy Ghost Himself, the true and only LEADER of each individual Christian, and corporate Body of Christ ... The Nicolaiatan usurption of power separates people into the priest class and laity advocating the "us and them" philosophy ... But there is no place in the Word (after the inception of the Church age) where priests or ministers have to mediate between God and the people, nor is there a place where they are separated in their worship of the Lord ... God desires all to love and serve Him together ... Nicolaitanism destroys those precepts and instead separates the ministers from the people by making them leaders and overlords, instead of servants ... Our Lord expressed His hatred for this type of administration and expects His people to do likewise ... In other words, there is to be no intimidating, controlling, power-hungry officers in the Church Body exercising counterfeit authority over the “layman” ... Scriptures plainly supports a Priesthood of Believers, EACH of us being granted access to the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ ... “ You are a CHOSEN RACE, a royal PRIESTHOOD, a HOLY NATION, a PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;” (1 Pet 2:9) ...The Roman Church is in great error and if you'd like to understand just where she went wrong this teaching series will delineate her transition from chastness to adultery ... By the time you get thru Part 3 (The Church's First 300 Years) it'll begin to rip the covers off of satans influence into Christ own Church via the Roman church then, and on through 12 expose it in the Protestant church now ... Sinister!Easter and Christmas will never be the same to you again, even if you already know they're paganly tainted!Scarlet Threads, History of Mystery Babylon 1 - 12Bob Faulknerhttp://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?keyword=scarlet

Let me tell you what love is. Love is sounding a warning, and standing in the way of people being deceived into hell.If I knew a road was flooded and if people drive down it they will drown... and I say nothing... then I do not have love, I do not have concern... and I have the blood of innocent people on my hands.I believe that.Time ago I found one streaming video about this subject.Here is the link: Messages from Heaven?Description: From around the world come reports of apparitions of the Virgin Mary. Are they real? What do these occurances indicate? What does the Bible say?87 min video

...forgive my ignorance. There are any number of things that I am still ignorant about. But as to this:So what difference does it make if a Pope stands up with his comedy relief of other world religious leaders and claim to do thus and thus?Could only allude back to earlier comments, that the vast majority in the Catholic Church don't have any idea of what the church teaches or make that holds to, I don't remember being taught any of the things that they hold to that are now so glaringly opposed to just the plain reading of scripture. So in that sense, it does make a huge differene, that many are led astray, the same sentiments many of us would have towards the'prosperity gospel' or any other deviant form of Christianity.

Karl, brother,I understand you, 'we' here would understand you, but the difference would be those who do not understand, so it seems we are saying the same thing almost.In fact wouldn't it constitute an even bigger problem in that sense? If it was just a gathering of various leaders of different religions it would be one thing, but that under the guise of Christianity and what is represented in it's core doctrines and that are in effect not represented correctly, thus giving a false impression...To throw a bit of a wrench in it all:There is absolutly nothing Christian about the RCC That's kind of tricky no? There is plenty that is, if it is taken in isolation, but as a 'system' of course not.

Hey Krispy in reference to:Krispy can you give us links to those that you have posted and websites.Did you pull these from the vatican website?Been awhile since I attempted a foray into the confusion there, practically like to trying to read a manuel on rocket science.But am curious as to if these are still from the most recent "Vatican II" council or in other words, are they up to date? It is a large body of information to go through and can appreciate the effort brother, because it certainly is an effort.

by pij on 2005/4/17 16:49:23I like what Hank Hanagraaf says:http://www.equip.org/free/CP0801.htmCHECK IT OUT:"While Protestants continue to disagree over the issue, CRI firmly maintains that Roman Catholicism is a religious system which includes both orthodox biblical Christianity and elements of unbiblical or “cultic” doctrine and practice. In other words, we recognize that Roman Catholicism historically has affirmed the essential teachings of the Bible, while also teaching doctrines which are inconsistent with that affirmation and which seriously compromise the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. We acknowledge in Roman Catholicism the presence of many genuine brothers and sisters in the Lord, while also recognizing that many of those within Roman Catholicism worldwide appear to be lost.Although certain doctrines and practices in Roman Catholicism might properly be termed “heretical,” we would not label them as a cult — for example, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. The errors of Roman Catholicism are heretical in that sense that they compromise or undermine the orthodox confession of the church. In short, we regard Roman Catholicism as neither a biblically sound Christian church nor a cult, but a Christian church with a mixture of orthodox and erroneous teachings.We take this stand fully aware that many are going to criticize us for it. In fact, Catholics will take issue with us because we are critical of many of their teachings. Protestants label us because we don’t strongly criticize Roman Catholicism. In fact, there have been some Protestants that have even accused CRI of being Jesuit-controlled! Well, our concern, is not to please men, but to speak the truth in love. Obviously we are not in any way controlled by the Roman Catholic church, but on the other hand, we are not afraid to speak out against its heresies either. One thing we are unwilling to do is to misrepresent Roman Catholicism or to exaggerate its faults. That would be patently unfair, at CRI we’ve always striven for balance."I agree TOTALLY with Hank Hanegraaf that we should be unwilling to misrepresent Roman Catholicism or to exaggerate its faults, striving for balance. The reason I agree with this view is because I am an ex-catholic and I have family and friends who are still catholic and the last thing I want to do is to turn them off to the true gospel of God by slamming them with criticism, calling their church the great whore and telling them they're going to hell. Put yourself in their shoes and consider how it would feel to be treated this way. Just something to think about.

Hi TaKa ...You know i wish brother Hank would make up his mind ... On Catholicism he wants to take a soft stand here, but yesterday in an interview with brother Os Guinness (author of Prophetic Untimeleness) he totally agreed that as the western world, in particular America, has become captive to "political correctness", the Body of Christ particularly in America, and in particular preachers, have become captive to "theological correctness", and that "prophets" need to stand up and take a firm stand in pointing Protestantism back to the need of proclaiming only the original, pure intent and content of the Gospel ... So if he's agreeing that "prophets" need to vocally rise up to the cleansing of Protestantism from the heretical "lite beer" ornaments of health, wealth and seed offerings that we've attached to the tree of Life that is the Gospel, then shouldn't he be even more for verbal trumpet blowing against the "150 proof" seriously stupefying heresies of the Catholic church ... To me this is the major problem of particularly the Church in America from it's recognized so called leaders, preachers and pew warmers, we're schizo, double minded and have deteriorated to speaking out of both sides of our mouths, and we all know who the father of the forked tongue is ... What we ALL need is a return forward to the one way, God's way, plain speaking preaching, teaching and promoting of the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ cleansed from all the man made crap that we've added ... Biblical accounts show that 9 out of 10 times folk don't listen to the "NO" of human prophets, and if the American church had an ear it would have heard the likes of David Wilkerson a long time ago, instead of relegating them as fanatical religious kooks ... Andrew Strom has taken a "NO" stand today on the ills of Protestanism let alone Catholicism, as many of us local far less known prophetic types have where God has us assigned, but alas what i think we all know deep down inside is that it's gonna take a direct unmistakable disciplining "NO" from God Himself to slap us ALL to attention ... For when God Himself communicates "NO" everybody sits up (or should i say kneels down) and listens ... Whatever it takes for our Lord to get His saints, His Church (particularly in America) back in line, clear of the dross, beginning with me, i pray for continuously that He will do and if my prayers be in line with His will, do soon! ....

I hear what you are saying about wanting to deal lovingly with RC members, but Hanagraaf is hardly the guy you want to refer to on this. He has refused to call RCC the whore and a cult as you documented.Although certain doctrines and practices in Roman Catholicism might properly be termed “heretical,” we would not label them as a cultBut they are a cult just as messed up as the JW's and the Mormons. They believe sacramental works and the church saves, not Jesus. To a Catholic, the cross was NOT enough to assure us heaven.In other words, we recognize that Roman Catholicism historically has affirmed the essential teachings of the BibleThe essential teachings of the Bible!? Do they include essential things like HOW TO BE SAVED??? No they don't. They think an infant is born again through baptism. They think a child is filled with the Spirit through confirmation. They claim that if anyone says they KNOW they have eternal life, they have commited a sin of presumption. They must repent and go live in doubt of their salvation.Listen to what a true man of God would say about Rome:"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description.""Popery is contrary to Christ's Gospel, and is the Antichrist, and we ought to pray against it. It should be the daily prayer of every believer that Antichrist might be hurled like a millstone into the flood and for Christ, because it wounds Christ, because it robs Christ of His glory, because it puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread into the place of the Saviour, and a few drops of water into the place of the Holy Ghost, and puts a mere fallible man like ourselves up as the vicar of Christ on earth; if we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors: we shall love their souls though we loath and detest their dogmas, and so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened, because we turn our faces towards Christ when we pray." - Charles Spurgeon

When you have exhausted your zeal in tar and feathering Romanism- there is a world out there that needs the Gospel. There is a person, church, community, county, city, and country that needs revival. A good friend of mine wrote the original article this thread is based upon and we can all agree with it. But I cannot understand the amount of energy that has gone into this thread. Has the darkness not be cursed enough? Have not enough anathemas been leveled before and behind? Perhaps a thread with the purpose of promoting revival could sit on the front page in this ones stead and bring Glory to Christ.

by RobertW on 2005/4/23 17:23:38When you have exhausted your zeal in tar and feathering Romanism- there is a world out there that needs the Gospel. There is a person, church, community, county, city, and country that needs revival. A good friend of mine wrote the original article this thread is based upon and we can all agree with it. But I cannot understand the amount of energy that has gone into this thread. Has the darkness not be cursed enough? Have not enough anathemas been leveled before and behind? Perhaps a thread with the purpose of promoting revival could sit on the front page in this ones stead and bring Glory to Christ.I could not agree more!