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Title: A Vision of Coming Judgment To America In the Last Days
Speaker: Dean Odle
a very sobering message ,i believe is from the lord ,,,what can i say about it other then i feel the lord is afirming this same message through other speakers as well ,,,we should be looking forawrd to the times of refreshings that are comeing by the presesnce of the lord ,,and not despise his chastisment when it comes ,,,lifting up our head for our redemption is drawing nigh
It is hard for me to really comment on the message because I disagree with him on some theological points that I understand others may have no problem with. My issues are as follows:
1) His statement that the Olivet Discourse in Mt. 24 pertains to the "end times.” I believe that it clearly refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD- all of it.
2) If I told you about a dream I had and that I thought it was from the Lord, how much stock would you put in that? A lot of his preaching seemed to be based on dreams he had. The problem with this is that many Christians might be dreaming dreams with different content that THEY think is from the Lord. And what about the dreams of non-Christians. Now, I have had 2 dreams in my life that I personally know (or at least strongly believe) were from the Lord. Both were exceedingly pleasant. While I might share the dream with friends I wouldn’t presume to expect that they have to agree that the dreams were from the Lord. That is personal to me.
3) His statement that the American economy must collapse to make way for chips being implanted into our hands. But this has to do more with his interpretation of Rev. and I know that many people believe in literal marks or chips etc and long-haired locusts etc. So again more of a personal thing.
I definitely agreed with him on a couple of points, one being that the "purpose-drivens” and the seeker ”“friendlies have done nothing to bring revival to America. Whether it will take nuclear destruction of the east and west coasts is open for discussion.
It is difficult for me to comment. I will need to wait and see if what he says will come to pass.
Theologically, I did have some issues with what he said, but primarily I'll just have to see if what he says comes to pass. It has to be during the presidency of Obama, though.
Great point havok.
I love it how pastors who talk about a horrible prophetic event they think will happen always preface it with " now I don't want to scare you, but..."
Nuclear annihilation is pretty scary. For those who aren't directly killed it's still "panic in the year zero. "
Why would God ever judge America?
John Little has a few hints:
".... I am upset that my taxes have helped pay for the active and coercive promotion of homosexuality around the world. America has become the single biggest advocate of homosexuality that the world has EVER known. In the entire history of mankind, no one has ever done more to increase homosexuality than America. No one."
America, Lord of the Homosexual World
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/06/04/america-lord-of-the-homosexual-world/
one up on Sodom & Gom.? and if that would be not enough:
America, Lord of the Pornography Trade
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/06/03/america-lord-of-the-pornography-trade/
well, somone has to "be the best", and this one is an eye-opener for some:
America, Lord of the Heroin Trade
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/06/02/america-lord-of-the-heroin-trade/
myself, I dont find anything truly new in both the audio or in the above articles, its known to the average researcher of christian writings, i'm more concerned with the time AFTER the judgment of America that will come with certainty, because it's in the prophets. What will remain of all that American culture and American way of thinking in religious matters? What will be clearly identified to be wrong teaching then?. And if it's wrong THEN because it came crushing down, why tolerate it now, when you still can do somthing about it and minds and hearts still can be changed to be accessible to the truth?
I mean for example in Matt 24 the disciples asked Jesus: and what shall be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the world? And He answers accordingly. If thats not clear now, what else do you not understand or admit to be true? It's about: the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the world. Not the denial of it what makes prophecy irrelevant to you - so no prophetc warning can in fact reach you. Including the readers that are also scriptural illiterate but love a message of peace and safety for the flesh.
America will not reshape in any other form, it will simply end, thats scripture, even if not even 1% of American believers want to understand that, it's still there for everyone else to see. Americans wished they would rather have a great revival instead - what seems like a very good idea - however like all major empires that made a multitude of sins their daily business the nation as such will end suddenly, nonetheless. Deal with it before you are made to leave or the airports are closed because of the lack of electricity [EMP], pray if its the Father's will to leave. Now would be a good time to ask, and receive an actual answer concerning that question. Jesus answers prayer and will direct the steps of the righteous.
a-servant-
Not clear who you are addressing your comments to-- but where in the Bible does it say that America is going to be smoked by a nuclear conflagration? You say its obvious to see? Where?
I am not saying that it might not be- anything can happen- just wondering where you think it actually says that explicitly.
In Mt. 24 Jesus was telling his disciples about things that would happen to THAT generation. Plain as day. Again, that does not mean something very bad might not happen in OUR generation, but Mt. 24 is not about that.
I looked at the "omegashock" website-- what is John little's point other than being scintillating? Does he offer any helpful insight into the alarm bells he is ringing or is he simply ringing alarm bells that we have all heard 100s of times? (Jack Van impe, Tim Lahaye, etc?)
I listened. Two things he said:
1. "I can't tell you about that right now."
2. I believe Jeremiah 5 is about the United States if you'll just substitute "United States" where it says Judah and Jerusalem.
Mmmmm. Yeah.
Let me say this. The guy seems so nice, and I'd suppose he's a good fellow to get to know. I won't question his character or anything based on a 21 minute testimony.
But, I felt like I was "watching" a Mario Bros. game where Mario just snatched the coins without jumping on any squares and getting the goodies. Now, I know if you are unfamiliar with Nintendo games that doesn't make any sense, and I sure don't want to be trivial here. Yet, I thought this talk trivialized things. How?
See #1 above. If this brother has had so much revelation from God, and if it was so important for him to speak at this place and time and occasion that was recorded here, then he should have just been out with it. Or, he should've not mentioned it at all, which would be better. I wonder if he had books or booklets or CDs for sale in the lobby, because he kept teasing about what he "knew" from these visions and dreams, etc. It was extremely off-putting and made me not take him seriously. And, I'm inclined to take such things seriously.
He didn't say anything particularly helpful or enlightening. The weight of his remarks were not the authority of Scripture but rather "trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Remember, God showed me." I was chalking this current of his talk up to the brevity of the time he had to speak (he was obviously limited) and not so much a lack of appeal to Scripture .... until he said #2 above.
Then, honestly, he lost me.
Let's do what he encouraged. Let's read through Jeremiah 5 and drop in "USA" wherever Jerusalem or Judah are written. Let's not call it Jeremiah 5; let's call it Dean 5, so we're not "adding to" or substituting the actual word of God, out of sheer respect.
Run to and fro through the streets of the USA,
look and take note!
Search her squares to see
if you can find a man,
one who does justice
and seeks truth,
that I may pardon her.
2
Though they say, "As the Lord lives,”
yet they swear falsely.
3
O Lord, do not your eyes look for truth?
You have struck them down,
but they felt no anguish;
you have consumed them,
but they refused to take correction.
They have made their faces harder than rock;
they have refused to repent.
4
Then I said, "These are only the poor;
they have no sense;
for they do not know the way of the Lord,
the justice of their God.
5
I will go to the great
and will speak to them,
for they know the way of the Lord,
the justice of their God.”
But they all alike had broken the yoke;
they had burst the bonds.
6
Therefore a lion from the forest shall strike them down;
a wolf from the desert shall devastate them.
A leopard is watching their cities;
everyone who goes out of them shall be torn in pieces,
because their transgressions are many,
their apostasies are great.
7
"How can I pardon you?
Your children have forsaken me
and have sworn by those who are no gods.
When I fed them to the full,
they committed adultery
and trooped to the houses of whores.
8
They were well-fed, lusty stallions,
each neighing for his neighbor's wife.
9
Shall I not punish them for these things?
declares the Lord;
and shall I not avenge myself
on a nation such as this?
10
"Go up through her vine rows and destroy,
but make not a full end;
strip away her branches,
for they are not the Lord's.
11
For the house of the USA and the house of America
have been utterly treacherous to me,
declares the Lord.
12
They have spoken falsely of the Lord
and have said, ‘He will do nothing;
no disaster will come upon us,
nor shall we see sword or famine.
13
The prophets will become wind;
the word is not in them.
Thus shall it be done to them!’”
The Lord Proclaims Judgment
14
Therefore thus says the Lord, the God of hosts:
"Because you have spoken this word,
behold, I am making my words in your mouth a fire,
and this people wood, and the fire shall consume them.
15
Behold, I am bringing against you
a nation from afar, O house of USA,
declares the Lord.
It is an enduring nation;
it is an ancient nation,
a nation whose language you do not know,
nor can you understand what they say.
16
Their quiver is like an open tomb;
they are all mighty warriors.
17
They shall eat up your harvest and your food;
they shall eat up your sons and your daughters;
they shall eat up your flocks and your herds;
they shall eat up your vines and your fig trees;
your fortified cities in which you trust
they shall beat down with the sword.”
18 "But even in those days, declares the Lord, I will not make a full end of you. 19 And when your people say, ‘Why has the Lord our God done all these things to us?’ you shall say to them, ‘As you have forsaken me and served foreign gods in your land, so you shall serve foreigners in a land that is not yours.’”
20
Declare this in the house of America;
proclaim it in the United States:
21
"Hear this, O foolish and senseless people,
who have eyes, but see not,
who have ears, but hear not.
22
Do you not fear me? declares the Lord.
Do you not tremble before me?
I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea,
a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass;
though the waves toss, they cannot prevail;
though they roar, they cannot pass over it.
23
But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart;
they have turned aside and gone away.
24
They do not say in their hearts,
‘Let us fear the Lord our God,
who gives the rain in its season,
the autumn rain and the spring rain,
and keeps for us
the weeks appointed for the harvest.’
25
Your iniquities have turned these away,
and your sins have kept good from you.
26
For wicked men are found among my people;
they lurk like fowlers lying in wait.[a]
They set a trap;
they catch men.
27
Like a cage full of birds,
their houses are full of deceit;
therefore they have become great and rich;
28
they have grown fat and sleek.
They know no bounds in deeds of evil;
they judge not with justice
the cause of the fatherless, to make it prosper,
and they do not defend the rights of the needy.
29
Shall I not punish them for these things?
declares the Lord,
and shall I not avenge myself
on a nation such as this?”
30
An appalling and horrible thing
has happened in the land:
31
the prophets prophesy falsely,
and the priests rule at their direction;
my people love to have it so,
but what will you do when the end comes?
Now, it is easy to draw parallels between sinful Israel and Judah and America. Not saying there are no parallels. Sure there are. But, it is fast and loose with "thus saith the Lord" to do as Dean O. suggested we do with Jeremiah 5. You read through this and you see that the destruction God wrought was tied to His covenant with Abraham and with Moses and Israel. America has no covenant with God. I know it is popular, Winthrop's "city on a hill" and all that. But, it just isn't biblical.
So, to make a short work of it, Odie's testimony (it wasn't a sermon, to be honest) only repeated what we mostly already know, that God is going to pour out wrath on the earth and -- as we believe -- soon. He actually undermines urgency by his teasing at private revelations or understandings that were just too much to share, and by his cavalier treatment of Scripture.
That's my opinion.
I was at the SI conference when brother Dean shared his testimony and he was only given a few minutes to share which is why he kept saying he couldn't say too much.
Whether or not brother Dean had a dream from God or ate too much pizza, is difficult for any of us to say. But if you have been following world events, I would say his dream about the nuclear event off the coast of Japan has some legitimacy.
Dean Odle from what I can tell is a man of God with integrity and character, or I don't think he would have been invited to speak at a SI conference. Brother Greg could share more I am sure, but I was the moderator at the conference and have kept in touch with brother Dean and have no issues with him...he preaches the Word of God without compromise which is very rare these days. Perhaps God has granted that he receives last days visions and dreams, isn't that what the prophet Joel said would happen? Are we to call into question everyone who claims they had a vision or dream from the Lord? We may as well throw away a lot of what David Wilkenson said then, especially his book "The Vision"...which btw echos the nuclear judgement coming to America.
I don't think it is outside of the realms of possibility at all that America could be hit with nukes from within or from without. God has allowed weapons of all descriptions to inflict judgment on wicked people and nations.
In fact, I can not give any detail but I have it on good authority from "a friend of a friend" that there is intelligence that certain American cities are current targets for small nukes in the event that an enemy would want to bring America to her knees again...or rather finish what they started in 2001.
Does anyone remember what happened in the aftermath of 9/11? The stock market? Businesses coming to a grinding halt for weeks? Imagine this but on a 100 fold level and that is what the enemys of America could do to her if they could get their hands on nuclear material.
Could it happen? Absolutely! Will it happen as brother Dean declares he saw in a dream? Who knows, but it is food for thought that's for sure.
From the sounds of things most people are Americans first and Christians second.
Zeke, please elaborate a little to make your point clearer because your statement doesn't seem to bear any relation to this topic or the sermon any of the comments on this thread, thank you brother.
Awakened,
Please note that I went out of my way to limit criticism of Dean Odle in any personal way. I assumed that he was in a time constraint. I believe God speaks in dreams and visions. I believe we are in the last of the last days before Jesus returns. I agree with Dean that there is no pretrib rapture, although I admit I am less than certain on the matter.
We are invited to critique and comment and parse truth in these sermons. I stand by what I said. If it was one of those "well you just had to be there" deals, I wish our random choice of sermon for the week had landed elsewhere. Becsuse this one has some issues that may reflect less than fairly on our brother.
Brothers,
I don't know Dean Odle and other than being clearly charasmatic (went to his website), there is nothing on the website that suggests he is a man of ill character. I don't think that listening to these random sermons should venture that route, anyhow. Let us do what the Scriptures encourage us to do in these situations:
1) Look at the Word of God and see if what He is saying is true.
2) If he prophesies, then we need to wait to see if it comes to pass. If it does not, then we know that he was speaking, just as the scriptures admonish us: "when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him." (Deut 18:22).
awakened,
You will have to look very hard anywhere on the earth to find the church as introspective about its nations spiritual status than America as if they are connected at the hip. Quite possibly that may be its inherent problem.
awakened--
I understand what you are saying. The only problem is that EVERYONE seems to be saying that America will be subject of nuclear holocaust. How many Hollywood movies have been made about this? I can name 3 real quick... Planet of the Apes, Terminator and Panic in the Year Zero.
Should we give those films prophetic weight? Or should we just chalk them up to speculative fiction? And if a Christian makes such prophecies how long of we give them to come true and when do they have to apologize? 50 years? 10 years? 1000 years?
Bad things are always happening all over the world. And have always happened. So such general predictions are hard to take seriously and you certainly dont have to be a Christian to make them.
I do believe that God will judge the nations, but I do not believer that America has a special judgment planned out for it.
Many Americans think that this country, like the people of Israel, are in covenant with God. There is only 1 problem:
It takes 2 parties in agreement to make a covenant valid. Even if people did found this country and dedicate it to the Lord, that doesn't make us a covenant people. Especially since the Lord Himself did not ratify the covenant.
Not only that, but I believe America is living proof that there is no other covenant with God will EVER pan out except that which is founded through the blood of Jesus Christ.
If I make a covenant with God that everyone at my work will follow Him, it makes no difference because 1) God has to also agree to it, and 2) Apart from a marvelous work of the Holy Spirit, no one else is going to agree.
Dolfan, I agree, poor random choice for brother Dean...maybe next time:)
TMK, like I said, its food for thought that's all. What if brother Dean and David Wilkerson are right? What if God is going to judge America?
This nation is made up of PEOPLE...people that the Lord loves and died for but they are still people who either live to please him or who become a people who's sins are so egregious that the Lord allows her to be destroyed. Maybe we are not there yet but look at the filth that has permeated the world because of America. As someone else stated somewhere, there has never been a people in the history of the world who have done more to propagate and promote the homosexual cause than America. I pondered that remark and wondered what it was that brought the tipping point to Sodom and Gomorrah? What sent them down into the abyss from which there was no turning back? I heard someone recently say they felt to leave this country because it had become so much like Sodom and Gomorrah over the homosexual issue that they sensed in their spirit that God was going to judge the nation because of it...so they packed up and left!!!
Again, lots of food for thought. Maybe nothing but paranoia but it may be the Lord is warning us before hand to get ready because things are going to get very messed up around here.
Many Americans think that this country, like the people of Israel, are in covenant with God.
Obviously God doesn't have to explain Himself if He allows America to be attacked by terrorists or come to economic ruin. He doesn't even explain when bad things happen to good people, so who am I to figure this stuff out? The bottom line is that certain people believe that America as a nation is about to land in a mess of hurt. I think there is a lot of writing on the wall to suggest that it will get much, much worse and if I know anything about Gods character He will allow anyone or any nation to reap what they have sown, imho the reaping has begun!
I was thinking about this on the way home from work today.
Back before WW2 or when WWII started, were any Christian leaders saying that America was coming under judgment? Or that the whole world was? I mean- 50-80 million people died in WW2.
The US had over 407,000 killed. That is very hard to imagine. Other countries had far more. By comparison, since 2001 the war in Afghanistan has claimed only around 3400 American lives and Americans are up in arms about that.
In WW1 the Germans had up to 2 million killed. Incredible! Then in WW2 they had up to 4.4 million dead and AMAZINGLY the USSR had up to 13.85 million killed.
I guess what I am saying is back then it seemed a whole lot worse "war and rumors of wars" wise than it does now. Was anybody saying that this was due to God's judgment? Were Christians saying "get ready for the rapture?" If not, why not? I have very little knowledge about this and I am curious about it.
I do know that Art Katz believed that the Holocaust was God's judgment on the Jewish people and that essentially it didn't work to turn them to repentance. I know this view is pretty unpopular but that is what he believed and taught. He also believes that the Holocaust was "child's play" compared to what is soon to come upon the Jewish people worldwide, even in the United States. I find that so hard to comprehend but like I said earlier anything is possible.
For the people that think Dean Odle is too brief, you may want to listen to an extra long and detailed 2014 collection of visions by Henry Gruver, a senior brother that received multiples of them:
He has seen everthing earlier, and remembers every single detail, including some of the US cities he saw to be nuked.
Quote: "I do believe that God will judge the nations, but I do not believer that America has a special judgment planned out for it."
You don't understand. It's not about any imagined covenant. It's about a nation that has gone to be the market leader in evil, that polutes the whole planet with the massive output of filth. The main tool in Satan's hand on this earth. Yes, all nations are mad, but this one is the leader. The center of operations.
Just a little extra, most movies out of Hollywood for kids and young adults now have an occult component added in the last few years, and also introduced "gods" out of classic european sagas to lead away from the one true God. Someone gave me access to 1TB of recent movies to have a look whats going on there, and I checked all of them for at least 10 minutes - and not one! (yes, not even one) is without occult content. America is now the source of spiritual darkness exporting it to every home on the planet.
God has to stop that just to protect the children of the nations from the influence of spritiual polution. John Little gets it, because he is an American living outside of the US. What trains the perception and understanding like nothing else, you cannot get this at home. That's the first time Americans usually understand that they are not the "good guys" anymore, but the exact opposite, people of the most degenerate nation on earth. As American Christian everything you say will be valued accordingly with a grain of salt in other countries, because many already know Americans come from the center of the corruption. How much credibility you think will be left after a major judgment by God?
Where do you live aservant? Just curious.
You say John Little "gets it." I say he gets nothing.
He is fearmongering to get hits on his website and to make a "name" for himself
He discusses all sorts of topics designed to strike fear in people... the very people who have no power whatsoever to change any of it. no person has the power to change the global economy or get the Illuminati to repent or make Hollywood change its ways. So what he does is paint pictures of hopelessness and offers no solutions or hope.
That is either the mark of a irresponsible person who calls himself a believer, at best, or a twisted individual, at worst.
He is not doing what he is doing out if love for the brethren.
Now tell me, why would anyone want to visit his website? It is not edifying to say the least.
Awakened,
It has been mentioned elsewhere on SI, if God was willing to spare Sodom and Gomorah for ten righteous, how much more will he America under the New Covenant. There are millions of people who love Jesus and are crying out to God for the nation.
This oft quoted quote:"If God doesn't soon bring judgment upon America, He'll have to go back and apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah!" is wrong on so many levels.
If God did judge America he would have to apologize to Jesus. Through the work of Calvary God the Father has made Jesus the sole judge of the world, and until the day when the earth and sky flees from his presence there is Grace to a rebellious world.
No friends, you don't know what spirit you are of when you expect and pray for such things. Jesus, only Jesus!
Amen to that Zeke!
zeco brother thats a poor example to aply to america ,,,for starters ,,no prophecy about america is an abaslute destruction as was sodom ,,god will spare americas anilation becasue of the righeous,,but will judge accoring to what she has sown the whole bible is full of examples of that hapening to nations and iserale
there were many people also crying out like paul was for the nation of israel ,,probale the whole church ,,but that never stoped the destuction of the temple and milloins of jewish deaths by gods hand and jesus prophecys
if god does judge america as he did to many others nations at one time why shopuld he apolagise ,,,thats ,thatsts ,,blasphemy realy saying that brother ,,,,,
brother the book of revalatuons shows many vials of wrath trupet blows of anger comeing upon the earth before jesus breaks through like lightning
brother the work of calvery is only aplied to the people of god and it essence is to apeaes the wrath of god on the day of judment ,,,we read god still judges with death and sicknes in corintians and revalations ,,justs the example of taking the bread and wine in anunworthy manner ,paul said was the cause of sickness and death in that church ,,,imagian that 50 million fold
who said we were praying for this to happen ,,,dont misreprecent the brothers here, or men like david wilikson and art kats ,,,no one has said they are praying for a nukela attack on america
the wait and see attatude is exactly what we should never do with prophecys ,,,not one time are we exorted to do that in scripture ,,not once ,but test it,,,and judge it ,,,what does scripture show regarding simmilar situations ,,what are other godly men saying about this type of prophecy ,what are other godly propherts saying
thats the real question ,,not weather this goes againsts my ecsatoligy ,or my current hopes ,and comforts
brothagary,
The idea that I am challenging, especially to American believers, is this belief that because of Americas great sins Gods wrath is coming.
Friend, every nation is evil, so, according to this kind of preaching every nation is storing up wrath for itself. There is no Christian theocracy this side of Jesus' return.
Gods wrath is coming to any and everyone who does not except the forgiveness of sins given through his Son. The issue is not about the multiplication of iniquity but the refusal to believe Gods ultimate testimony to mankind in his Son Jesus Christ.
I believe this kind of preaching/prophetic utterance has no basis this side of calvary.
I can see that we have very different beliefs about the nature of Jesus' atonement so I'll end here.
brotagary,
Your words are Truth and seasoned with grace thank you for bringing common sense to this discussion.
I personally don't know of ANYONE who prays for Gods wrath to come on America, and yes it is clear that people who pray for this "don't know what spirit they are of".
Throughout history and in the bible we see account after account of nations and empires coming to ruin...Gods judgment? Well that's one way to put it but it really is about Gods sovereignty. He raises up Kings and rulers and He removes them. Obviously He does this with nations and Empires too. How and why and when He brings nations down is up for endless discussion because we don't know His mind or clearly know His plans for this world. But we do have a brain and we can see the signs all around us. Something nasty is going on in this land, lots of things are changing and it is not pretty. Those who live here can see this.
It is certainly true that America is on a downward spiral. Do we really need people to keep on telling us this?
What irritates me about websites like omegashock is that their sole purpose is to make people worry (I.e., sin). To me that is inexcusable.
I mean what does he expect a person to do with the information on his website?
Thank you for the link.
What irritates me about websites like omegashock is that their sole purpose is to make people worry (I.e., sin). To me that is inexcusable. I mean what does he expect a person to do with the information on his website?
Forgive me for my ignorance but are we still talking about Dean Odles message? Is omega shock his website? Ok just looked it up, this is someone else's website and I agree it appears designed to instill fear and maybe get people to buy their books. But this is not what is happening with this message at all IMHO.
Brother Dean claims he received a word from The Lord to speak a warning to America and if that is true there must be at least one person in this country that the Lord wants to hear this, perhaps they will repent and turn to Him?
Why can't we just give the brother the benefit of the doubt and move on?
Brothers, we could argue circles about future events all day long. To be honest, none of us can have a definite opinion about details of the future that simply don't appear in scripture.
We can guess, but because of the nature of this discussion, none of us can give anything but an opinion, even if it is a strong one.
Let us just resolve to do what the Scriptures say and Test a prophet by 1) his character (you shall know a tree by its fruits) and 2) his message accuracy (as referenced previously).
I am not going to go on Dean Odle's website looking for reasons to question his character. So I am just left with the content of the message, which I will wait and see if it comes to pass.
Here is a pertinent scripture passage that speaks to this subject matter...knowing these things, how ought we to live?
"But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."
(2 Peter 3)
Also, our brother, Dean, should avoid Auburn, AL. Can anything good come out of Auburn? Yes. I-85.
; )
(This is a college football joke for everyone outside of the Southeast US who might wonder what I'm talking about...just trying to lighten the mood.)
Hey awakened--
Several posts back on this thread aservant posted links to the omegashock website whic in my view is sensationalist tripe.
I did not mean to suggest it was Dean Odle' website and I apologize for that impression.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with giving a brother with a message like Deans the benefit of the doubt as long as he is not being sensationalistic and his motives are pure. I think those are likely true of Dean.
"To be honest, none of us can have a definite opinion about details of the future that simply don't appear in scripture."
und you say that because you cannot identify the more sure word of prophecy in this regard?
2 Peter 1:19 Â We have also a more sure word of prophecy;
we discussed that several times here which parts of scripture identify the last times ruling nation, and you never looked into that?
Don't you think we can identify the times of the end and its players 100% ? Unless we are on the same level as the pharisees. And that the word of prophecy is 'more sure' than any kind of forum talk, where details of any message are always surpressed with typical phrases only old women and children respond to?
Quote: "Don't you think we can identify the times of the end and its players 100% ?"
Absolutely and 100% NO. If you can, start naming some names.
Besides, 2Pet. 1:19 is not even talking about "end times" prophecy. It is talking about the OT scriptures that foretold the coming of Jesus.
a-servant,
If you go through and read the annals of church history in regards to end-time interpretation, Scripture was almost always read through the lenses of current events.
The 1st century Christians believed that the end would be brought about about the Roman Empire. Middle Ages Christians believed it was through the Muslims. The reformation era guys believed it was through the Catholic church and the papacy. Many believers today believe it was through America.
Do you see? Every great nation that rises up and commits atrocities is a type. There will ALWAYS be wars and rumors of wars (and Dean Odle said that was a sign of the end, but Jesus was merely saying that those things would be happening until the end. Remember, he said "But the end is not yet.") I am not saying that Jesus couldn't come back tomorrow and America be synonomous with Babylon. I'm not saying that. But I am also not saying that some other nation isn't going to rise up greater, more powerful, and more hateful of God than America.
Does America deserve judgment? Yes. So does Europe. So does the middle east. So does every nation on the face of the earth.
i think your right havoc regarding all deseving judment ,,,but what the real issue is that america has so many profesing christians ,,,people name the name of christ ,,,, america has been givern so much gosple light ,,,for to whom much is givern much is required in a this scence,,,,,,,,america may have reject more light in the last 50 years then one could realy comprehend ,,the tide of blasphemy must reach gods boundays and turn
blessings havoc i watched another sermon last night by eric ludy ,,it is called the tree ,,,,i feel is edafied me eeven more then that last message ,an amasing sermon about the cross of christ ,,iv never herd a sermon preaced in that way about the cross ,,,,,,,just thought id share that ,,because i may get in trouble if i post another sermon out side sermon index
...and that's the point we haven't even touched yet, judgment comes first because of the ones that call themselves by his name, i.e.:
quote: "america may have reject more light in the last 50 years then one could realy comprehend ,,the tide of blasphemy must reach gods boundays and turn"
John Little wrote something similar, more specific yesterday:
"let’s not forget that if God would destroy Israel in the Old Testament for HER sins… What do you think that the Lord will do to us, who claim Him for ourselves, and do worse?"
It's the claiming of Jesus name and person while doing worse part, that's like an excercise in "ultimate corruption" and blasphemy.
Yet we "are under grace" - and we are "saved" - right, according to inhouse local understanding. Did you ever check that on validity outside the current belief system as done for example in the book:
"Studies on Saving Faith" - by A. W. Pink
read that online and compare it to current common belief regarding who and who isn't saved, and the question "what is the gospel". I'm sure if A. W. Pink would preach that today anywhere in the US he would never get invited back. The controversy does not come because of Pink's understanding, but because of the corruption of the "modern gospel system" that uses only extracted simple out of context formulars that statistically produces millions of "converts" that claim Him for ourselves, and do worse nonetheless. And that's where this attempt to look for anyone righteous to stop the judgment ends.
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