Genesis 3:15

Gen. 3:15 \tAnd I will put enmity\tBetween you and the woman,\tAnd between your seed and her Seed;\tHe shall bruise your head,\tAnd you shall bruise His heel.” I heard a brother's thoughts about becoming one with Christ and that is the gift of the New Covenant. He mentioned this in the Indwelling Spirit thread. So now this is the time to think about what it means to become one with Christ or with Satan. In Genesis we learn that man has chosen to given into temptation. Listen to God's proclaimation. "I will put enmity between you and the woman,." Who is "you" and who is the "woman?"In ChristJeff

Sorry Jeff,But I don't exactly understand what it is your asking. Should I read an older thread to catch up?

"I will put enmity between you and the woman,." Who is "you" and who is the "woman?"The plain reading of the text indicates that 'you' is the serpent and that 'the woman' is eve.As to the identity of the serpent, the NT makes it clear that it is satan. eg.And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and SatanRev 12Do you have some extra insight?

Br. Taco wrote:The plain reading of the text indicates that 'you' is the serpent and that 'the woman' is eve.You are correct on the first, however the second is not Eve. Listen to the next part of the verse."And between your seed and her Seed;"An earthly woman, does not have seed. In Scriptures, it is the man who has the seed. This is the only verse in Scripture which gives this notion of the Seed belonging to a woman.In ChristJeff

Brother Andrew wrote:But I don't exactly understand what it is your asking. Should I read an older thread to catch up?No need to catch up, this thread has a nature of its own. It will take some time to develop.In ChristJeff

Jeff, just take a look at the text surrounding this verse. 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.14 ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.16 ¶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Are you saying that "the woman" which I have uerlined and in bold is different than "the woman" which I have merely underlined.Or, are you saying that in each case "the woman" is someone other than eve.In either case I think that you should spit it out - who are you saying she is and why.If you don't say, I don't see why anyone should entertain the notion that this isn't eve.Go on spit it out, I await with baited breath :-D

I believe that Karl & Taco are both correct. But the thing is you are referring to two different persons.Taco is right.- the "WOMAN" and the "HER" is referring to EveKarl is right.- the "SEED" of the "HER" is referring to ChristOf course, the "SEED of the "HER" is not the person as the "HER"Interesting.Roman

Child born---natural birth---son given----one who has been adopted. Jesus born of the virgin Mary adopted by Joseph, God in the flesh, eternal.

Gen. 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent:\t“Because you have done this,\tYou are cursed more than all cattle,\tAnd more than every beast of the field;\tOn your belly you shall go,\tAnd you shall eat dust\tAll the days of your life. 15 \tAnd I will put enmity\tBetween you and the woman,\tAnd between your seed and her Seed;\tHe shall bruise your head,\tAnd you shall bruise His heel.” Please notice that God is pronouncing judgement on Satan only in this section of Scripture. He has not spoken to Eve. Verse 16, Gen. 3:16 To the woman He said:\t“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;\tIn pain you shall bring forth children;\tYour desire shall be for your husband,\tAnd he shall rule over you.” This idea of seperation of the curse is important to understand. Satan does not live in the world of the flesh. His time is not our time. Listen to what Paul teaches.Eph. 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.Likewise Satan does not struggle against flesh and blood but God. In verse 3:15 we are given insight into all of history as we know of it. We are told in this verse that there will always be hatred between Satan and the woman, and his seed, and the woman's Seed. Now also look to this verse in Genesis 2. There is much to learn from this precept of God.24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. In ChristJeff

Jeff,I agree with taco, if you have some thoughts you'd like to share on this passage please share them with us because I have always looked at the passage and agreed with most who have posted that the serpent is Satan, the woman is Eve and the seed of the woman is Jesus. The bruise to the heel made by the serpent on Jesus shows how insignificant the attack on Him is compared to the death blow of a crushed head. Also interesting to note that crucifixion is the only form of execution that I know of that bruises the victim's heal... Not mentioned in the Bible but still a very cool tidbit of information!

Brother Andrew wrote:I agree with taco, if you have some thoughts you'd like to share on this passage please share them with usI am sharing. What I have said in the last post must first be meditated on. We all come to this verse with preconcieved or regurgitated teachings on this subject. I have learned that we are taught by Him, line upon line, precept upon precept, here alittle there alittle. To understand the totallity of what I am trying to communicate without first building precept upon precept will do no good. Also, I too am learning.In ChristJeff

Br. Karl wrote:Another thing is this "LORD God". I am not trinitarian but I do believe there is a Father and a Son and these two are Holy and Spirit.But if you notice that the "LORD God" is not mentioned until Genesis 2:4, before that it was just "GOD".In time I hope to show that Christ is with the Father and Spirit working to redeme the OT saints. I believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. So let us reason together Br Karl.As a side note.Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Gen. 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. And then:Rev. 21:22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. God created trees, herbs, and grasses on the third day, and then He created the sun and the moon of the fourth day. I believe the Trinity is there in the first 2 verses of Scripture.In ChristJeff

Listen to the testimony of Gabriel to Daniel. Dan. 10:12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.” Also at the end of the testimony listen to the battle that rages in the spiritual realm.Dan. 10:20 Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? And now I must return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I have gone forth, indeed the prince of Greece will come. 21 But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince. Do you sense the nature of the curse that God put upon Satan that day in the garden? The nature of this curse covers many generations of men. The nature of this curse began that day in the garden and will continue till death and Satan are cast into the lake of fire. In ChristJeff

Jesus testifies of the hatred that God pronounced that day in the garden against Satan and the woman. The precept of enmity between Satan and the woman is a spiritual one. Listen to the words of Jesus confirming God's oath to Satan.John 15:18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.This hatred has existed since the day God spoke it in the garden of Eden.In ChristJeff

Br. Karl wrote:Give me some credit, I once was Oneness or Jesus only, which is just more confusion on top of confusion.I am sorry if I offended you. I don't understand what you mean by, "I once was Oneness or Jesus only." That is why my name is rookie. In ChristJeff

Brother Karl wrote: But Jeff, is this not getting into serpent seed doctrine? Again, I do not know if what I am developing here is part of the "serpent seed doctrine." Thankyou for the Scripture that clearly testifies that the curse was in full effect. I like the colors too.In ChristJeff

Is. 54:1 “Sing, O barren,\tYou who have not borne!\tBreak forth into singing, and cry aloud,\tYou who have not labored with child!\tFor more are the children of the desolate\tThan the children of the married woman,” says the LORD. I believe that the woman mentioned in Genesis 3:15 is also mentioned here in Isaiah 54:1 and also in Galatians 427 For it is written:\t“Rejoice, O barren,\tYou who do not bear!\tBreak forth and shout,\tYou who are not in labor!\tFor the desolate has many more children\tThan she who has a husband.”In ChristJeff

Hi Karl,Is it possible for you to post that article of William Branham on "Serpent Seed Doctrine?" For deeper study of his teaching/doctrine.But on a quick response, 1) I believe his doctrine is contrary to Genesis 4:1Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man." 2) That pervertion of animal & man to have sex is a result of sin. Sin corrupted the humanity in its totality. So, if that incident happens before fall. it is impossible & improbable to happen. With the purity & innocense of Adam & Eve before the fall, there is no perversion. And as stated in Genesis, Adam acknowledge & claimed Eve as his wife. Again, it is perversion for Eve to have sex with the serpent and much more for Adam to allow it to happen.3) I believe you can not make a doctrine based on only one passage simply because it will not "hold any water;" there is nothing to support it biblically. As God established, there must be at least two witnesses to admit someone's accussation. Therefore, I believe this should also apply in His word. At least three passages that supports each other are needed before you can come up with a teaching or doctrine. Looking forward for that article.Thanks much.Roman

1) I believe his doctrine is contrary to Genesis 4:1Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man."I am sure you are right. Branham had strange doctrines and a pattern of behaviour that mirrored the psychic rather than biblical models. His teaching on the fall seems to be that the original sin was a sexual relationship between Eve and the Serpent which produced Cain. It is bizarre, utterly speculative and contrary to the whole sense of the passage. No doubt he got it 'by revelation'. :-? which can't help making you wonder where he got the rest of his 'revelation' from.

If [William Branham] was [a true prophet]then we should take heed to it, if not, then he is a false prophet. And I don't want to be the one to say that he was, I'd be too scared.I don't think that one need be scared at all. He was certainly a man who made false prophecies and also a man who taught erroneous doctrines. I have no idea as to wheter he was merly decieved or an intentional deciever nor to what extent his visions etc were caused by demonic interference or if they were the result of a psychiatric problem. God knows. HE may have had true prophecies in his life for all I know, but because of the galring problems I think it is of know value for us to view the man as a prophet. It would seem to render the gift valueless in my opinion.But Karl, I don't think that the fact that people have opinions on WB should stop you posting. You look into the teaching and see if it has some merit in the light of scripture and if so then share it on that basis. Many and probabaly most are unlikely to be swayed by the citing of WB as an authority.BUt I don't think that you should take it personaly. The kingdom of God could do with more people, like yourself, who are willing to look into things and somtimes go against the grain. But I think that if we are to be curious like this we must also be prepared for the rejection of our ideas without taking offence. God bless you brother.taco

Br. KarlThankyou for your explaination of those two doctrines. Neither of those doctrines are part of this thread. In ChristJeff

Is. 54:1 “Sing, O barren, You who have not borne! Break forth into singing, and cry aloud, You who have not labored with child! For more are the children of the desolate Than the children of the married woman,” says the LORD. Look to the qualities or the substance of these two women in this Scripture. What do we see?The first woman does not experience labor pains. The first woman rejoices in her children. The first woman has many more children than the second woman who has a husband. I believe we have a thought here that draws a contrast between a spiritual precept and an earthly precept. When God pronounced judgement on Eve He said this. Gen. 3:16 To the woman He said:\t“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;\tIn pain you shall bring forth children;\tYour desire shall be for your husband,\tAnd he shall rule over you.” Here we are given the example of all who are born of the flesh. Since the day Eve submitted to Satan, women have suffered the birth of children and have their husbands as the source of comfort that they seek. We are told in this Scripture that the first woman is desolate, she does not experience the curse of the second woman. She does not have a earthly husband. I believe this precept is also explained by Scripture in the book of John. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Do you see the contrast here between the earthly and the heavenly?In Christjeff

Galatians 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:\t“Rejoice, O barren,\tYou who do not bear!\tBreak forth and shout,\tYou who are not in labor!\tFor the desolate has many more children\tThan she who has a husband.”Paul writes and gives this analogy, he says that this is symbolic. Paul identifies a bondwoman and a freewoman. The thought of the bondwoman and it applying to Haggar also represents all women doesn't it? Since God cursed Eve are not all born of the flesh represented by the analogy that Paul is using here? Is not Hagar, the bondwoman, also all those born of the flesh? Likewise Paul makes the analogy of the free woman who is born of the promise. Paul writes of the free woman: 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. This woman that Paul refers to as the Jerusalem above who is the mother of us all, is the woman that God speaks of in Genesis 3:15. Satan being a spiritual being battles the woman who is also spiritual. Paul teaches of this precept. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. When God pronounce judgment in Genesis 3, He mentioned a change in what man and woman would come to know.Gen. 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil.Satan strives to give men the knowledge of evil and sin has now entered into this world. In ChristJeff

Paul writes in Galatians 4:Gal. 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Those who recieve the promise from above, from the Jerusalem that is heavenly are persecuted by those who are only born once. Those who do not have the Spirit of God cannot please God. Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 1Cor. 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. I seek to drive this precept into clarity. There are two realms that we live in. We exist in our flesh born under the curse of Adam. At that moment in time, Adam and Eve entered into a world of knowing both good and evil. Prior to their disobedience they only knew good. The second realm that we live under is influence by the spiritual. Those who are born only once have the spiritual guidance of Satan. For those who have been born twice Paul writes:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. Do you see here that there are many in bondage to "the spirit of the world," and there are others who have the Spirit of God. So there are two realms, the spirit of this world, and the Spirit that is from God. There is enmity between Satan and the woman. In ChristJeff

Prior to the fall God states this precept of man. Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. The declaration of this precept in Gensis 2 seem premature in some ways. Adam and Eve have just been united by God. Yet, we hear two things from this verse. We learn of the thought of generations of men and women. We also learn of God's law of marriage. A man and a woman come together as husband and wife. The nature of this relationship begins with two individuals that become one. In Scripture, we are given many examples of this precept in both the flesh and spiritual realms. Think about the many times that God has judged various generations within the nation of Israel. He often declared to them that they were an adulterous wife. Here is an example found in Hosea 2:1 Say to your brethren, “My people,’\tAnd to your sisters, ‘Mercy is shown.’ 2 \t“Bring charges against your mother, bring charges;\tFor she is not My wife, nor am I her Husband!\tLet her put away her harlotries from her sight,\tAnd her adulteries from between her breasts; 3 \tLest I strip her naked\tAnd expose her, as in the day she was born,\tAnd make her like a wilderness,\tAnd set her like a dry land,\tAnd slay her with thirst. 4 \t“I will not have mercy on her children,\tFor they are the children of harlotry. 5 \tFor their mother has played the harlot;\tShe who conceived them has behaved shamefully.\tFor she said, “I will go after my lovers,\tWho give me my bread and my water,\tMy wool and my linen,\tMy oil and my drink.’ Look to the teachings of Christ when He speaks of being one with the Father and that His disciples are one in Him. John 17:John 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.Look to the times that Scriptures teach about the bride of Christ. We see this idea of marriage between two that now become one. I have only discussed the marriage of God with His people. Yet the precept is the same for those who are not born of God but are the seed of Satan. The pecepts that were established in Genesis 2:24 also apply now to those who remain in bondage to the flesh and the spirit of this world. What Scriptures come to mind that reflect the nature of Satan in his seed?In ChristJeff

I agree that this passage is confusing but yet very clear and understandable.If you want to understand the bible you must first forget everything you ever herd about the passage and let the Holy Spirit teach you. Offten we read a certin passage without study and appliy to it the understanding that another pass on to us without letting the Holy Spirit talk to us. One good example of this is Isa 53:5. If I ask you what that verse is all about 99.9% of you would tell me that it tell us what Jesus did on the cross for us and that by his stripes we here healed from all sickness. You would tell me this because that what all the great pastor preach week after week on tv but you would be wrong. It's important to not assumed what a verse is saying but to study the scriptures (2 Tim 2:15).Let me start by telling you that God does heal but Isa 53:5 is not a verse to prove it. Jesus clearly told us what he came to do in John 10:10 he was sent from the father to give man life. Adam sin cause death (seperation from God) to enter theis world and death was pass upon all men because we are all decendants of Adam (Rom 5:12-13). God tried to restor life to men through the law but the only thing the law did was make man guilty of there sin (Rom 7:10). So Jesus came to establish a new covenant built on better promises one design to give you life or a restored relationship with God. Isa 53:5 may have been translated as BY HIS STRIPES YOU ARE HEALED but the true meaning is BY HIS STRIPES YOU ARE RESTORED or YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD WAS RESTORED. The stripes of Jesus gave you life not health.So if you want to understand what Gen 3:15 is all about first start by forgetting everything you ever hear about it and then let the Holy Spirit talk to you. If you would like my opignon on Gen 3:15 let me know I won't get into it right now because it would take a little while but I would be glad to share it with you

Br Karl asked:How did Satan's seed get beyond the flood?We have Noah and his wife and his three sons and their wives.Only 8 souls entered the arkSatan's seed refers to the those, who in each generation, submit to the rulership of Satan. So what evidence do we find in Scripture that tells of events that followed Noah and his family after they leave the confines of the ark? We know that their was a faithful son and disobedient sons. My next post will explore what the seed of Satan really means.In ChristJeff

Is. 14:3 It shall come to pass in the day the LORD gives you rest from your sorrow, and from your fear and the hard bondage in which you were made to serve, 4 that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:\t“How the oppressor has ceased,\tThe golden city ceased! 5 \tThe LORD has broken the staff of the wicked,\tThe scepter of the rulers; 6 \tHe who struck the people in wrath with a continual stroke,\tHe who ruled the nations in anger,\tIs persecuted and no one hinders. 7 \tThe whole earth is at rest and quiet;\tThey break forth into singing. 8 \tIndeed the cypress trees rejoice over you,\tAnd the cedars of Lebanon,\tSaying, “Since you were cut down,\tNo woodsman has come up against us.’ 9 \t“Hell from beneath is excited about you,\tTo meet you at your coming;\tIt stirs up the dead for you,\tAll the chief ones of the earth;\tIt has raised up from their thrones\tAll the kings of the nations. 10 \tThey all shall speak and say to you:\t“Have you also become as weak as we?\tHave you become like us? 11 \tYour pomp is brought down to Sheol,\tAnd the sound of your stringed instruments;\tThe maggot is spread under you,\tAnd worms cover you.’ 12 \t“How you are fallen from heaven,\tO Lucifer, son of the morning!\tHow you are cut down to the ground,\tYou who weakened the nations! 13 \tFor you have said in your heart:\t“I will ascend into heaven,\tI will exalt my throne above the stars of God;\tI will also sit on the mount of the congregation\tOn the farthest sides of the north; 14 \tI will ascend above the heights of the clouds,\tI will be like the Most High.’ 15 \tYet you shall be brought down to Sheol,\tTo the lowest depths of the Pit. 16 \t“Those who see you will gaze at you,\tAnd consider you, saying:\t‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,\tWho shook kingdoms, 17 \tWho made the world as a wilderness\tAnd destroyed its cities,\tWho did not open the house of his prisoners?’ 18 \t“All the kings of the nations,\tAll of them, sleep in glory,\tEveryone in his own house; 19 \tBut you are cast out of your grave\tLike an abominable branch,\tLike the garment of those who are slain,\tThrust through with a sword,\tWho go down to the stones of the pit,\tLike a corpse trodden underfoot. 20 \tYou will not be joined with them in burial,\tBecause you have destroyed your land\tAnd slain your people.\tThe brood of evildoers shall never be named. 21 \tPrepare slaughter for his children\tBecause of the iniquity of their fathers,\tLest they rise up and possess the land,\tAnd fill the face of the world with cities.” In the book of Isaiah we find a discription of Lucifer. But if you look more closely this discription of Lucifer is also applied to the king of Babylon. In the beginning of these verses we find that God identifies that this Scripture is speaking of the time when He brings back the captives from Babylon. And once this work is complete, He will destroy Belshazzar. Remember the story in Daniel of the handwriting on the wall? This is the king identified here in Isaiah 14. Now back to Isaiah 14. These verses begin with the historical pinnings of this text. Judgement is declared on the King Belxhazzar. But what do we see next? We are given a view of Lucifer and the reasons for his rebellion. And then once this description is complete, the remaining verses again speak of the judgement that is coming to Babylon and its children. Now I believe that there is a spiritual precept here that must be brought to light. We see that this earthly king has been given the same qualities as his father, Lucifer. I believe this is a picture given to us in Scripture defining the manifestation of the spiritual work of Lucifer in a man. In this case we see it is King Belshazzar and the children of Babylon. Here we see that the king and Lucifer have become one in spirit. There are many more implications that can be drawn from these verses, but for now do you see the meaning of what it means to be the seed of Satan? In ChristJeff

Dr Dan wrote:BY HIS STRIPES YOU ARE HEALED but the true meaning is BY HIS STRIPES YOU ARE RESTORED or YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD WAS RESTORED. The stripes of Jesus gave you life not health.I agree with your thought here. Isaiah 57 describes the healing that God's work is concerned with.15 \tFor thus says the High and Lofty One\tWho inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy:\t“I dwell in the high and holy place,\tWith him who has a contrite and humble spirit,\tTo revive the spirit of the humble,\tAnd to revive the heart of the contrite ones. 16 \tFor I will not contend forever,\tNor will I always be angry;\tFor the spirit would fail before Me,\tAnd the souls which I have made. 17 \tFor the iniquity of his covetousness\tI was angry and struck him;\tI hid and was angry,\tAnd he went on backsliding in the way of his heart. 18 \tI have seen his ways, and will heal him;\tI will also lead him,\tAnd restore comforts to him\tAnd to his mourners. 19 \t“I create the fruit of the lips:\tPeace, peace to him who is far off and to him who is near,”\tSays the LORD,\t“And I will heal him.” God's desire is to heal the backsliding, the turning away of men's hearts from Him. In ChristJeff

I have heard the serpent seed explaination before but have never been settled about that doctrine. A dear brother in the Lord and I disagree on it, but we remain prayer partners and street witnesses along side each other. I for one would appreciate hearing your insights on this passage of scripture. God Bless, Bro. Daryl

Gen4:1 whats your point here? All the ancients , even the pagan religions acknowledged that life in the womb was from Elohim. Rember Jacob's reply in Gen30:1-2? Life comes from God. Cain and Abel? The Older son being removed from the birthright blessing, a pattern that repeats over and over again. Was Abel like Seth? Probably. But for purposes of God's own chosing the language used is to convey the act of procreation of the human race forward. Was Cain from Adam's loins? Yes. Was Cain a human being?Yes. So what are you getting at? Talk a straight line bro. , not circles.

Br Karl quoted:"6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"FOR:"as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made aliveI hear you are running along side of me. I can't keep up with you though. Give me some time.In ChristJeff

Br. Karl quoted:"And Adam knew Eve his wife: and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel."Remember that God gave Cain a reprimand concerning his offering not being acceptable. Gen. 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” God exhorts Cain to turn to Him and warns him that sin lies at the door, and its desire is for you, but you should rule over it." We learn that Cain submitted to sin. Another thought about Abel, he was a prophet of God.Matt. 23:31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.Here we see the epic battle between the serpent and the prophets of God which Abel was the first. In terms of Seth, remember that Cain killed Abel. Therefore God established His remnant through Seth. Gen. 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, “For God has appointed another seed for me instead of Abel, whom Cain killed.” 26 And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. Then men began to call on the name of the LORD. Please notice the last verse: "Then men began to call on the name of the Lord." In ChristJeff

Here is another example of the seed of Satan being one with him. Ezek. 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, “Thus says the Lord GOD:\t‘You were the seal of perfection,\tFull of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 \tYou were in Eden, the garden of God;\tEvery precious stone was your covering:\tThe sardius, topaz, and diamond,\tBeryl, onyx, and jasper,\tSapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.\tThe workmanship of your timbrels and pipes\tWas prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 \t“You were the anointed cherub who covers;\tI established you;\tYou were on the holy mountain of God;\tYou walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 \tYou were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,\tTill iniquity was found in you. In these Scriptures we learn more about the nature of Lucifer. We also see that the king of Tyre is judged because of his works. Do you see the nature of Satan being revealed in the life of the King of Tyre?Do you see that it is a spiritual battle?In ChristJeff

Scripture also gives us a view of a future king who will also reflect the glory of his father, Satan.Dan. 11:36 “Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. 37 He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. 38 But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. 39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain. Listen to what John wrote about this man. Revelation 13 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” Rev. 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. Do you see where this man, this beast, gets his power from? The dragon, the serpent of old. Do you see the nature of Satan in the man who will rise up out of the brotherhood of man to destroy many? This man will truly be one with his father, Lucifer.In ChristJeff

Jesus teaches us about the seed of Satan:John 8:39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.” John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.The seed of Satan will have the same desires of their father. They are motivated to do the things that he has taught them to do. As a father teaches his children they begin to imitate him. Lucifer builds his kingdom on his own resouces. Lucifer builds his kingdom on a foundation of lies that bring destruction to all who would submit to his rule in their lives. This is how sin entered the world.In ChristJeff

Now what about the woman and her Seed? First, look again to who this woman is.In the book of James we find that he refer to the Scriptures which speak of the Spirit of God in the OT saints. Listen to the Scripture: James 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?Now many will say where in the OT Sciptures is this found. We do not see it so therefore no doctrine can be based on what James the apostle spoke about the Spirit of God indwelling in the OT saints. I found this today in my reading. Listen to what Scripture says.Malachi 2:14 Yet you say, “For what reason?” Because the LORD has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant. 15 But did He not make them one, Having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth. 16 “For the LORD God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one’s garment with violence,” Says the LORD of hosts. “Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously.” One must ask himself who is the wife in this Scripture? What is the nature of the covenant that this Scripture speaks too? Also look to the warning about man's spirit dealing treacherously with the Lord. Therefore take heed to your spirit, And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth. As it is in Genesis 3:1515 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.” The woman and the wife are the same. They are one. They represent the power of the Holy Spirit regenerating men's hearts. Malachi 2:15 But did He not make them one, Having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring.In ChristJeff

Malachi 2:15 But did He not make them one, Having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring.God seeks godly offspring. The work of the Holy Spirit produces godly offspring doesn't it? And whose image will the godly offspring be conformed into? The Seed. In ChristJeff

Listen for the substance of the promise that Jesus gives to His disciples.John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.John 14:19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”In versus 15 and 16 Jesus says that He will send another Helper. Then in verse 17, He promises that He would not leave the orphans, but that He would come to them. Do you see that the Spirit manifests Jesus to His disciples?Look to verse 21. Do you again see that the substance of the promise will manifest Jesus to those who abide with Him? Again listen to for the substance of the promise that the Holy Spirit brings to those who abide.John 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.The Spirit does not speak on His own authority but only of Christ. The Spirit's work is to declare Christ to all who abide. Going back to Genesis 3:15,Gen. 3:15 \tAnd I will put enmity\tBetween you and the woman,\tAnd between your seed and her Seed;\tHe shall bruise your head,\tAnd you shall bruise His heel.” Do you see why enmity would exist between Satan and his seed and "her Seed?"Now many teach that Christ was a shadow in the OT. This is true only in the sense when one compares the revelation of Christ in the NT. The NT brings clarity to the work of Christ. Things are spelled out, they are looked upon as history to us who live 2000 years after His incarnation. Yet, Christ and the works He did before the foundation of the world exist. His works are real from the time of Adam to this present day. The precepts of salvation, the precepts of being conformed into His image are real for those who followed God in the OT as well as the NT. The shadow is created by something that already exists. There would be no shadow of something not yet real. It is only a shadow as men see, not as God exists. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are eternal. Man's understanding is dependent on God revealing Himself to man. When Jesus teaches that the Spirit gives and declares Him to those who live by faith, is it only after He was resurrected? If you believe this then you will not understand and see Christ's work in the OT. Paul teaches: 1Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.What does it mean that Christ was their spiritual Rock? Now if the Holy Spirit according to Scripture declares Christ, and that those who follow the Spirit will be conformed into His image, should we not also see the work of Christ in the OT saints?Just like we have seen the work of Lucifer manifest himself in those who are his seed, we should also see the attributes of Christ manifested in those who live by faith in the OT.I leave you with this for the summer. Read the OT, and look for Christ manifesting Himself in the OT saints. Remember He is the King of Righteousness and Peace. You will see judgement for the wicked and mercy and grace for those who live by faith. Many look at the OT and see a God of wrath. Does not the Son carry out the wrath. Many look at the NT and see the God of mercy, yet they fail to see the God of wrath, the King of Righteousness that will again judge this world. In the OT many will not recognise the King of Peace because they are taught that Christ began His work at the cross. In ChristJeff

Here is another example of OT Scripture teaching about the "woman" of Genesis 3:15.Prov. 8:1 Does not wisdom cry out,\tAnd understanding lift up her voice? 2 \tShe takes her stand on the top of the high hill,\tBeside the way, where the paths meet. 3 \tShe cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city,\tAt the entrance of the doors: 4 \t“To you, O men, I call,\tAnd my voice is to the sons of men. 5 \tO you simple ones, understand prudence,\tAnd you fools, be of an understanding heart. 6 \tListen, for I will speak of excellent things,\tAnd from the opening of my lips will come right things; 7 \tFor my mouth will speak truth;\tWickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 \tAll the words of my mouth are with righteousness;\tNothing crooked or perverse is in them. 9 \tThey are all plain to him who understands,\tAnd right to those who find knowledge. 10 \tReceive my instruction, and not silver,\tAnd knowledge rather than choice gold; 11 \tFor wisdom is better than rubies,\tAnd all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her. 12 \t“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,\tAnd find out knowledge and discretion. 13 \tThe fear of the LORD is to hate evil;\tPride and arrogance and the evil way\tAnd the perverse mouth I hate. 14 \tCounsel is mine, and sound wisdom;\tI am understanding, I have strength. 15 \tBy me kings reign,\tAnd rulers decree justice. 16 \tBy me princes rule, and nobles,\tAll the judges of the earth. 17 \tI love those who love me,\tAnd those who seek me diligently will find me. 18 \tRiches and honor are with me,\tEnduring riches and righteousness. 19 \tMy fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold,\tAnd my revenue than choice silver. 20 \tI traverse the way of righteousness,\tIn the midst of the paths of justice, 21 \tThat I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth,\tThat I may fill their treasuries. 22 \t“The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way,\tBefore His works of old. 23 \tI have been established from everlasting,\tFrom the beginning, before there was ever an earth. 24 \tWhen there were no depths I was brought forth,\tWhen there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 \tBefore the mountains were settled,\tBefore the hills, I was brought forth; 26 \tWhile as yet He had not made the earth or the fields,\tOr the primal dust of the world. 27 \tWhen He prepared the heavens, I was there,\tWhen He drew a circle on the face of the deep, 28 \tWhen He established the clouds above,\tWhen He strengthened the fountains of the deep, 29 \tWhen He assigned to the sea its limit,\tSo that the waters would not transgress His command,\tWhen He marked out the foundations of the earth, 30 \tThen I was beside Him as a master craftsman;\tAnd I was daily His delight,\tRejoicing always before Him, 31 \tRejoicing in His inhabited world,\tAnd my delight was with the sons of men. 32 \t“Now therefore, listen to me, my children,\tFor blessed are those who keep my ways. 33 \tHear instruction and be wise,\tAnd do not disdain it.34 \tBlessed is the man who listens to me,\tWatching daily at my gates,\tWaiting at the posts of my doors. 35 \tFor whoever finds me finds life,\tAnd obtains favor from the LORD; 36 \tBut he who sins against me wrongs his own soul;\tAll those who hate me love death.” Do you see the woman? Listen to Her exhortation again.32 \t“Now therefore, listen to me, my children,\tFor blessed are those who keep my ways. In ChristJeff

Solomon writes in Proverbs 8:3 She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city, At the entrance of the doors: 4 “To you, O men, I call, And my voice is to the sons of men. 5 O you simple ones, understand prudence, And you fools, be of an understanding heart. 6 Listen, for I will speak of excellent things, And from the opening of my lips will come right things; 7 For my mouth will speak truth;What happens to those who listen to this woman? What would the nature of one's life resemble if he or she began to listen to this woman?In ChristJeff

Just as I have given examples in Scripture of men like King Belshazzar taking on the nature of Lucifer, I will attempt to draw a similar precept for those who are the Seed of the woman mentioned in Genesis 3:15.Hebrews 2:11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:\t“I will declare Your name to My brethren;\tIn the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.” Here we see a testimony in Scripture which describes the Spiritual union between Christ and those who are changed by the grace with sanctifies. The result of this union is that they become one. Again, "For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one,..."The author of Hebrews selects a OT Scipture to then demonstrate this precept. Again, Hebrews 2:12 saying:\t“I will declare Your name to My brethren;\tIn the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”Now this OT Scripture can be found in Psalm 22.Psa. 22:0 To the Chief Musician. Set to “The Deer of the Dawn.” A Psalm of David. Psa. 22:1 \tMy God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?\tWhy are You so far from helping Me,\tAnd from the words of My groaning? 2 \tO My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;\tAnd in the night season, and am not silent. 3 \tBut You are holy,\tEnthroned in the praises of Israel. 4 \tOur fathers trusted in You;\tThey trusted, and You delivered them. 5 \tThey cried to You, and were delivered;\tThey trusted in You, and were not ashamed. 6 \tBut I am a worm, and no man;\tA reproach of men, and despised by the people. 7 \tAll those who see Me ridicule Me;\tThey shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,8 \t“He trusted in the LORD, let Him rescue Him;\tLet Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!” 9 \tBut You are He who took Me out of the womb;\tYou made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts. 10 \tI was cast upon You from birth.\tFrom My mother’s womb\tYou have been My God. 11 \tBe not far from Me,\tFor trouble is near;\tFor there is none to help. 12 \tMany bulls have surrounded Me;\tStrong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me. 13 \tThey gape at Me with their mouths,\tLike a raging and roaring lion. 14 \tI am poured out like water,\tAnd all My bones are out of joint;\tMy heart is like wax;\tIt has melted within Me. 15 \tMy strength is dried up like a potsherd,\tAnd My tongue clings to My jaws;\tYou have brought Me to the dust of death. 16 \tFor dogs have surrounded Me;\tThe congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.\tThey pierced My hands and My feet; 17 \tI can count all My bones.\tThey look and stare at Me. 18 \tThey divide My garments among them,\tAnd for My clothing they cast lots. 19 \tBut You, O LORD, do not be far from Me;\tO My Strength, hasten to help Me! 20 \tDeliver Me from the sword,\tMy precious life from the power of the dog. 21 \tSave Me from the lion’s mouth\tAnd from the horns of the wild oxen!\tYou have answered Me. 22 \tI will declare Your name to My brethren;\tIn the midst of the assembly I will praise You. 23 \tYou who fear the LORD, praise Him!\tAll you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,\tAnd fear Him, all you offspring of Israel! 24 \tFor He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;\tNor has He hidden His face from Him;\tBut when He cried to Him, He heard. 25 \tMy praise shall be of You in the great assembly;\tI will pay My vows before those who fear Him. 26 \tThe poor shall eat and be satisfied;\tThose who seek Him will praise the LORD.\tLet your heart live forever! 27 \tAll the ends of the world\tShall remember and turn to the LORD,\tAnd all the families of the nations\tShall worship before You. 28 \tFor the kingdom is the LORD’S,\tAnd He rules over the nations. 29 \tAll the prosperous of the earth\tShall eat and worship;\tAll those who go down to the dust\tShall bow before Him,\tEven he who cannot keep himself alive. 30 \tA posterity shall serve Him.\tIt will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation, 31 \tThey will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born,\tThat He has done this.Now when one reads this Scripture one obviosly recognizes the prophesies relating to Jesus. Yet David himself suffers from persecution that comes from his own people and even his own family. David was a faithful man in the midst of many who were the unfaithful people of Israel. In Genesis 3:15, this is a promise for all who are of the woman, There will be enmity between the seed of satan and the Seed of the woman. The thoughts shared by David in Psalm 22 reflect the real life experiences he had and also speak of the suffering his Lord would come to fulfill. The nature of the experiences differs, but the source of the experiences are the same.Paul often speaks of the sufferings of Christ taking root in his own life. This is the consequence of the Spiritual union we have with our Lord.In ChristJeff

Proverbs 1:20 \tWisdom calls aloud outside;\tShe raises her voice in the open squares. 21 \tShe cries out in the chief concourses,\tAt the openings of the gates in the city\tShe speaks her words: 22 \t“How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?\tFor scorners delight in their scorning,\tAnd fools hate knowledge. 23 \tTurn at my rebuke;\tSurely I will pour out my spirit on you;\tI will make my words known to you. This is a description of the woman and her Seed. God gave the Counselor to all who would listen. This has been true since the times of Adam and Eve. This is the ancient path.In ChristJeff