is head covering literal or spiritual

would love to know peoples thoughts on this..when scripture talks of a woman covering her head, do you think it refers to a veil or her husband.

Greeting trueblue

I think if you do a search of the forum you will find there have been a lot of discussion on this topic over the years. I have actually learned a lot on this matter. For myself, I have prayed on this matter, and sought out other brothers in CHRIST as well as my husband. After much prayer and seeking the LORD I believe my husband is my covering. I have no issues with sisters who see things differently and wear the head covering. I am always thankful to see them being faithful to the things the LORD has shown them, as I do also.

God bless
mj

My own best understanding is to take 1 Corinthians 11 literally on this. I also do not judge anyone who applies it as a figurative, husband as covering, or even Christ as covering, cultural statement. Personally I cannot honestly read it as culturally bound. My wife does not wear a head covering. I do not lead her to do that. She submits to me and to Christ. Her own honest view is that it is a spiritual covering by me and that literal coverings were cultural. I am content that she is not of a self willed heart on the matter.

But dolfan, what about the angels? ;)

Said a bride to her good husband, Ted
"You can't make me cover my head!"
Since she would not repent
She was consigned to torment
She should have listened to Ted.

by TMK on 2014/6/23 13:16:09

Said a bride to her good husband, Ted
"You can't make me cover my head!"
Since she would not repent
She was consigned to torment
She should have listened to Ted.

_____________________

Greetings TMK

I realize you probably meant this to be funny but if I may share with you it does come across a bit mocking of others. The truth is I know several sisters who dearly love the LORD and feel convicted wear the head covering. They do so with love in their heart for their husbands and the LORD JESUS. And sadly these same sister have to put up with being made fun of and even mocked by others from both the christian and non christian community.

Now you may think I am being sensitive and others might agree with you but on behalf of my sisters in CHRIST, I would just ask you to prayerfully consider before you post things like this. To you it may be a no big deal issue but for those of us who prayed about it, it matters a great deal.

Please consider what I have shared
God bless
maryjane

Hi MJ--

I didn't intend any offense. Just a little satire for what I believe to be a silly topic. Just my opinion of course.

This is a topic that has been discussed as infinitum here and elsewhere.

Some women choose to wear a head covering because they think scripture says so. Other women do not wear a head covering because they think scripture does NOT say so.

Both are right.

I am not saying it is a salvation issue; it is a sin issue. If it is a sin to not wear a head covering then there are millions of unrepentant sinners in the church. Are unrepentant sinners saved? I would argue no, but I guess that is another discussion.

My point is that it is not a sin not to not wear a head covering. But there are many persons who try to burden women with this requirement arguing that it is biblically required and a sin not to do so.

The only point I am trying to make is that it is not a sin to not wear a head covering and nobody has the right to say that it is.

Can we not debate on this again.

I believe that Head covering is a command given for women in Bible as a sign to angels. Hence there is no cultural aspect to it. Also there are very few such external commands given in New Covenant, hence we should be diligent in following them without asking questions.

I agree that it is not a salvation issue. Head covering is a sign that a women submits to her husband. If a women is honest and if she truly understood the meaning of biblical submission (not the modern feminist view) then she will acknowledge how challenging it is to submit. I am not saying it is impossible but it is truly challenging. Similarly in New Covenant it is written that Husbands should love their wife like how Christ loves his Church. Now anyone who understood the true love that Christ has for his Church then he will acknowledge how challenging it is for him to meet this standard in his married life. I acknowledge the challenge and I want God's grace and strength in this subject as much as possible to meet that standard.

Now if there was a command given to husbands like you should cover your face in Church as a symbol of your love for your wife then I will do it, no matter who follows it or not, I will follow it. I will not research and add cultural aspect to it. I will do it not because I fear that I will lose my salvation, but because I want to do all that I can to get his grace so that I can love my wife the way he wants me to love. I do not want my rebellion in this simple external command to stand in the way between me and God and prevent me from getting his Grace. Someone might argue that I am trying to earn his Grace, but God's word states that he gives his grace only to Humble and opposes the pride. The humble will obey the commands that they can keep immediately. Covering my face is a simple command that I can obey, to show God how much I need his grace in this matter of loving my wife. There is no such command for husbands in the Church.

So in my view a honest, humble and broken women who truly understood the biblical meaning of submission will cover her head in Church. There are those who do not know the truth or those who are misguided by Pastors saying that this is a cultural command. It is fine if they ignore out of ignorance, I pray that God will show them the truth.

But there are women who even after knowing the truth out of rebellion do not want to cover their head. For example in a Church run by one of the Son's of Zac Pooenen in US, there was a study made on Head Covering. They did a detailed study looking into all aspect of it. By the end of the study those women in Ignorance got light and started covering their head in Church, but those rebellious one left the Church forcing their family to leave as well. No one forced them to cover, the truth was presented openly. Not many can accept the truth.

Sree-

In your opinion is it a sin for a woman not to cover her head in church- for example- those women that left the church you talked about? In your view are they unrepentant sinners?

Sree-

In your opinion is it a sin for a woman not to cover her head in church- for example- those women that left the church you talked about? In your view are they unrepentant sinners?

No I will not call it a sin. Head covering is not an issue of salvation. A women can ignore this command out of ignorance or misguided by pastor. Those who left the Church after a detailed study was done did not do it in ignorance. It was rebellion for a simple command. I will call them unbroken people, I do not want to call them unsaved or unrepentant. A person needs to be broken to be of any use to God.

Greetings Sree

I appreciate your sharing what you feel the LORD showing you on this topic. I don't believe wearing the head covering is a salvation issue either. I have studied this matter, I have prayed about it, and so has my husband. After much seeking my husband has told me he does not believe I am to wear a literal head cover. I have spoken to other brothers and sisters in CHRIST as well and they have no such custom as to require a head cover. I do not believe I am in rebellion to my husband by not wearing a head cover since he is the head of our family and has sought the LORD on this topic. I also do not believe I am acting in ignorance of what the BIBLE says on the matter.

Again thank you for sharing this here with us.

God Bless
maryjane

MJ, I appreciate your response. Paul advices sisters to consult their husband on spiritual questions. You did right by seeking his opinion. I do not want anyone here who read my post to change just because I said so. I do not want to be a stumbling block to anyone. Even though what I said is truth, if someone just follows blindly after reading my post without getting a personal conviction then the covering will always be a burden to them.
I just expressed my view. I do not want to Judge anyone here.

I believe there are good arguments on both sides of this debate. I lean toward the view of the literal covering being a cultural issue, and for women today a matter of obeying the spirit of it and not the letter.

I looked at Matthew Henry's commentary on it and found it very interesting. Here is the link to it in case anyone is interested:

http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/1corinthians/mh/1corinthians11.htm

Sree wrote:

"It was rebellion for a simple command"

But you also said you would not call them unrepentant.

If rebellion is not unrepentance then what is?

This is a matter where there is freedom. A woman who does not wear a head covering is not in rebellion. A woman who feels they should wear one should wear one.

When you use words like rebellion the suggestion is that the woman not covering her head is sinning. You might think that but you should keep that to yourself so you do not burden with other women with your thoughts on the matter.

I honestly think The Lord just shakes his head over these discussions.

Respectfully, if those on the side of literal head coverings are right, it most definitely is a sin issue and women not wearing them are indeed sinning. And even on the other hand if those on the side of not wearing one are right it can still be a sin issue in that those wearing a covering may be placing an unnecessary burden on others. But it is not a "sin issue” over which there should be any kind of division.

I would compare this with other "sin issues" such as gluttony or smoking cigarettes. These things are sins but those involved with them may not have enough light or conviction of the Holy Spirit on them yet. The Lord may still be working on believers regarding these things and there needs to be room for growth in these areas.

In some form or another we all sin sort of unknowingly at times. Some of us may drink too much coffee, some may watch too much TV, some may work too much, etc. We must discern what essential sin issues are and what sin issues not worth dividing or arguing over are.

As to the original question posted, church history bears witness that these verses are speaking unequivocally of an actual physical covering, a symbol that can be seen by men and angels. It was the practice of the vast majority of Christian women until the 20th century.

"On the night of the Passover, the Jewish people in Egypt were told to put a symbol on their door post, marking it with the blood of the slain lamb. When the angel of death saw it, he passed over the house, leaving it in peace.

Now suppose a family had said, "Who cares? It’s just a symbol. Besides, we are children of Israel and God knows our hearts and our family lineage; He knows we are not Egyptians.” Surely they would have fallen under the same awful judgment the Egyptians faced.

Symbols are important to God, and following them puts things into play in the spiritual world.....because it is a symbol instituted by God, it makes a loud statement in the spiritual world. The Enemy and flesh oppose the acknowledgment of God’s authority and government.

Think about it objectively: How difficult is it to put something on your head? People do it for fashion all the time! It’s almost ridiculous to consider how simple an act could possibly cause such conflict. This struggle is not over the physical act of putting something on your head, but for the impact that is made in the spiritual world.

Some in the Corinthian church had difficulty comprehending the depths of this holy tradition. They struggled with the idea of it, probably not even aware of the true reasons for their inward reluctance....The question was, Would they obey or disobey?

The believers at Corinth did choose to submit to this teaching, for Tertullian, an early church father, writes more than 200 years later that the Corinthian women were wearing head coverings. History further shows us that the issue of women not wearing head coverings did not resurface again until the middle of the 20th century, when the seeds
of thought from liberal theology and higher criticism bore their fruit in this doctrine."

- K.P. Yohannan

I hope and pray while were all here splitting hairs over Bible theology, some warriors are out trying to bring in the lost sheep. But we should be rejoicing, this is exactly what the Bible says will happen in the last days, Praise Jesus!

The quote below and in previous post are from the small booklet to which my husband posted a link. It is the most balanced, loving teaching I've read on this subject, but it does not compromise with the spirit of this age. May the Lamb of God be glorified and may we love one another as He loved us.

"the Enemy would love to have us major on a doctrine such as this and have us ignore the weightier matters of the faith just as Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees in Matthew 23:23. This is a doctrine that may seem small and insignificant, yet it is still important. I don’t believe the Enemy would oppose it so strongly if it were not.

Wearing a head covering is biblical, and as with all New Testament instructions, it is to be taught and obeyed. However, it must not become a source of division and disunity in the Body of Christ.

Let us seek the Lord and His Word with open hearts. May God create within us a deep hunger to be His completely, for time and eternity."

- K.P. Yohannan

Here is John MacArthurs take:

"As with meat that had been offered to idols, there was nothing in the wearing or not wearing of the head covering itself that was right or wrong. It is the rebellion against God”“ordained roles that is wrong, and in Corinth that rebellion was demonstrated by women praying and prophesying with their heads uncovered.
Dress is largely cultural and, unless what a person wears is immodest or sexually suggestive, it has no moral or spiritual significance. Throughout biblical times, as in many parts of the world today, both men and women wore some type of robe. But there always were some clear distinctions of dress between men and women, most often indicated by hair length and head coverings.

It is the principle of women’s subordination to men, not the particular mark or symbol of that subordination, that Paul is teaching in this passage. The apostle is not laying down a universal principle that Christian women should always worship with their heads covered."

TMK, you are just peddling with my words. I have clarified my views here clearly. I do not want to generalize and say that all women who do not cover their head are sinning or rebellious. There are those who do not cover out of ignorance. There are those who do not cover out of being misguided. I do not consider these as sinners. Most pastors misguide their congregation in this matter because they do not want to lose count of people by holding the truth. But God's judgment is very clear on those who teach others to ignore even a small commandment of God.

Those whom I called rebellious are those who heard the truth clearly and still rebels against it. I do not want to judge them as sinners or unrepentant. Let God be their judge. The word rebellious is good enough. No more clarification is needed.

When you use words like rebellion the suggestion is that the woman not covering her head is sinning. You might think that but you should keep that to yourself so you do not burden with other women with your thoughts on the matter.

Please go ahead and read my posts again. I have clearly mentioned that I do not want any women to cover her head because I said so. Also no where did I try to put the biblical truth behind covering (because that will lead to arguments by those who have no respect for biblical truth). I only said from the perspective of receiving grace in submission by being humble and obeying a doable command from God. I do not believe it will be stumbling block to anyone. Humility should never be a burden to a born again women.
I am a man who measures his words.

As to the original question posted, church history bears witness that these verses are speaking unequivocally of an actual physical covering, a symbol that can be seen by men and angels. It was the practice of the vast majority of Christian women until the 20th century.

And in 20th century the culture for angels did not change suddenly. What happened here was the feminist movement was born. Women started questioning submission and it started with the symbol of submission.

I kind of like it when women wear hats. I have memories if my grandmother wearing a hat to church.

I told my wife that she needed to wear a hat to church to demonstrate her submission to me and she told me to shut up and mind my own business.

I read that book. It was very clearly written. I will definitely be holding on to this and using it as my first response when I am asked this question. Thanks for posting!

Sadly, this reminds me of all the threads that get shut down because eventually these discussions move to, "The 'Lord' showed me...." which is incognito for: obviously you're not listening because if you were...(fill in the blank with whatever). Same as the pre-trib/post-trib threads.

If you want to wear a head-covering, by all means wear them!! I don't wear them and I'm ok with not defending why I don't and I know the Lord loves all of us where we are at!

God bless you all trying to figure this out,
Lisa

bearmaster....Sigh! How could 16 verses in the New Testament create such controversy one can only imagine.

And how many tines has this issue been debated? And pray tell for what?

Ok. Seems like we are do for a KJVO thread.

Bearmaster standing down.

Yes! and sometimes I wonder if some are debating to vent, or relieve some stress in their life. Using Gods word to do such, would not seem proper to me, but maybe it is. I know I have personally burn a lot of calories reading these debates. :)

brothers and sisters, these things are matters that can and should be discussed, but with a spirit of charity from both sides. We are dealing with a passage of Scripture which at face value seems to prescribe literal head coverings for women and some take it literally while others don't. It is a reasonable discussion among Christians. We should not look down upon believers who want to respectfully discuss these things in order to try to come to a proper biblical view point, or to respectfully share their views on it. The Lord is at work in our lives in various ways showing us different things through His Word and we cannot expect for all of us to have equal interests in topics.

There is no doubt that the scripture DOES prescribe LITERAL head coverings. For a certain church. 2000 years ago.

Ample reason from different respected Bible teachers have been given why this was a culture specific command. I just checked and John Piper feels it was a command for that specific culture although the principle of submission stands today. No one, at least not me, is debating this.

I apologize for trying to throw some humor into this discussion, but the reason I do so is that this discussion cannot be resolved. Why cannot we all agree that there is freedom in this area and not condemn women who do not wear them.

I really think the thread should be locked as nothing fruitful can come of it. It has already made me type things I now regret.

By the way, in case you were wondering, I was just kidding about my wife. She actually wore head coverings when she was in Catholic school. If she forgot her fancy lace doily head cover, the nuns told her to grab a kleenex and 2 bobby pins. She said she had to resort to this on many occasions.

"Satire:
1. the use of irony, sarcasm, or ridicule in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc."

The limerick was pure satire. It was so outrageous that it would be hard for me to imagine that someone would think I was being serious.

Just to clarify, I do not believe that a woman who does not wear a head covering is going to burn in hell. Some people might ( thus the reason for my bit is satire) but I certainly do not.

So we have MacArthur, Piper, and Chuck Smith on one side and Yohannen and Poonen on the other. I respect all these men. Can't we just call it a draw and move on?

Reading all these posts on this issue (again) made me think of the verse:

"God looks at the heart, man at the outward appearance."

I do think that most of those commenting have been gracious in discussing this.

To Greg and his wife,

It was not my intent to offend you with my opinion, because that is all it is, my opinion. As I don’t want to feel less, I definitely do not want you to feel less because you do believe in head-coverings. I believe in freedom!

In the last years of Derek Prince’s life, his second wife was a woman who believed in and wore head-coverings but what amazes me (personally) is that through downloading and purchasing hundreds of his sermons, I have never heard one sermon on the topic nor did he write a book on the subject because this great Bible teacher knew it was not a commandment. The only reason I know she did is that I heard him make a passing comment on it once in a sermon that he had come to believe in it but he stated that that was their personal belief and then he stated the following verses and left it at that, period.

1 Cor 11.15-16
But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. BUT IF ANY MAN SEEM TO BE CONTENTIOUS, WE HAVE NO SUCH CUSTOM, NEITHER THE CHURCHES OF GOD.

My point is that yes, he believed in it but in that little blurb that he spoke on it, he never once made me (or anyone else), feel less of Christian because we didn't believe in it. And in this day and age, we don’t find many people of God who can do that... separate what they personally believe "about” a scripture from the Scriptures.

Like bearmaster said, "standing down”!! :)

God bless,
Lisa

"It’s Not about Us

The matter of head coverings is not about women’s subjection to men or of man losing his authority by not wearing it””it has nothing to do with custom, culture, history, man, woman or Paul’s own ideas.

This symbol transcends the physical realm and represents a much deeper reality than what we see here on earth.

In the same way, Holy Communion is not about us (although we are the ones doing it), but it’s a very important symbol given to us that speaks of Christ’s death 2,000 years ago.

In ancient Rome, Christians were scorned, rejected and some even killed for participating in the Holy Communion. They realized this tradition was not about them; rather, it was about Him. And that made all the difference.

It’s Not about Inferiority

Some misunderstand the purpose of head coverings, thinking they were instituted by men in an effort to make women feel inferior. This is not the case.

God is the One who ordained this authority structure in the beginning””a structure that can only work when we willingly submit to God’s authority. And we know that all authority is appointed by God. (see 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 3:6)

Man’s headship over woman is not the result of the Fall, but it was established in the Garden of Eden. (see 1 Corinthians 11:23, 14:37, 15:3)

Despite the connotations attached to it, subordination has nothing to do with inferiority, whether academically, anatomically, morally, socially, spiritually or anything else. Both male and female complement each other; both are interdependent of each other.

In the teachings on subordination found in the Bible, woman is subordinate to man because of the roles that God has given, not because of intrinsic value. (see Exodus 19:7)

The Lord knew the Enemy would use this fear of being inferior to hinder obedience. In answer to this, the teachings in 1 Corinthians 11 include verses 11 and 12: "Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor
woman independent of man, in the Lord. For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.”

There is a spiritual equality between man and woman, an equality that will continue after the Church age has come to an end. (see Romans 6:3”“6)

Looking to the Godhead, we see that all three Persons in the Holy Trinity are the same essence. Yet for order to be maintained, there must be headship and subordination. The Son willingly subjected Himself to the will of His Father as the incarnate second person of the Holy Trinity. (see 1 Corinthians 11:23”“26)

A woman displays this divine relationship and represents God’s government to the world; her willing subjection to wearing a covering is likened to Christ’s willing subjection to the Father.

The head covering then becomes a symbol for all to see, recognized and understood by the angels in heaven and the believers here on earth. What a privilege."

- K P Yohannan

A woman displays this divine relationship and represents God’s government to the world; her willing subjection to wearing a covering is likened to Christ’s willing subjection to the Father.

The head covering then becomes a symbol for all to see, recognized and understood by the angels in heaven and the believers here on earth. What a privilege."

Amen, why should a women think about first of all missing this privilege? Paul similarly compares marriage to Christ and Church relationship, why should someone think of spoiling this privilege by not honoring the marriage? People will readily recognize the second thing (dishonoring marriage) as sin but partial with first. Is it not a double standard?

Many men here think it is ok for a women not to cover her heard in Church and there by ignore the command. They try to come up with different loop holes so that they may not burden women in Church, like to add up cultural background etc.

But while thinking about not burdening others why do these men not give heed to what Jesus said in Matthew 5:19 in which Jesus said -"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven". Why should a man or a preacher try to put his own interpretation and there by take all effort to become least in God's kingdom?

Jesus did not think about not burdening others when he gave sermon on the mount. He raised the standard of Law even higher by saying 'if you lust with your eyes you have already committed adultery'. If these men were present on that time they would have called Jesus a hard task master who is adding additional burden to men by placing these extra commands. But Jesus knew what he was going to do, he will give greater grace for men to keep these commands. If our trust is on grace then none of the commands will ever be a burden to either men or women.

I am not saying men should force this view on women who do not cover their head, then they truly put a burden and become a stumbling block. Instead present the truth as it is, instead of finding loopholes.

There is nothing wrong in obeying a command. There is nothing wrong in a women looking different by covering her head out of obedience in Church when others do not. My wife who was raised with truth about Head covering. When she met with few sisters in US for prayer meet, felt odd that she alone was covering her head. I told her not to feel odd but stand for the truth that God has given her the privilege to hear from childhood. She obeyed God's command even though she was the only women there that too youngest of them all. The sister who organizes the prayer meet, asked my wife about her belief in head covering. When my wife presented the truth in love, the sister started covering her head as well. She was at least 20 years older than my wife who was in her 20s at that time. Irrespective of age one can always spread God's fragrance.
Dare to be different for Christ.

One more thing I wanted to clarify about my poking fun at this topic. I thought it was obvious but I guess it was not.

I am poking fun at the DEBATE over this topic that had been discussed ad nausea for many years without any clear resolution. The great majority of Christian women in the US at least don't cover their head. Doesn't mean they are right; doesn't mean they are wrong.

I AM NOT poking fun at persons who choose one way or the other. I honestly could care less personally, although when I see a woman in church wearing a hat (and this is usually at our daughter's church in Greenville SC that is about 50% African American) I do kind of like it.

But I do get a little irritated at those who continue to insist that they are right about one side of this issue and everyone else is wrong. How is this possible when very well respected men of God and Bible teachers fall on both sides of the issue? THAT is why the debate is ridiculous, No debate is necessary. Let each woman purpose in her own heart and mind what to do according to her prayerful study of the scriptures and leave it alone.

by Sree on 2014/6/25 1:34:47

There is nothing wrong in obeying a command. There is nothing wrong in a women looking different by covering her head out of obedience in Church when others do not.

____________________

You have mentioned "in Church" in some of your posts? I was wondering then do you believe this is a commend to follow while women are in church and praying or all the time? I do know some sisters who cover their heads when in prayer but do not wear the cloth cover at all times. I know of some who wear the cloth cover at all times, even when the lay down to sleep at night.

It is interesting to me,as I have had read many teaches on this topic. Today most women who cover do wear a small piece of cloth over the top of their head but some teaching I have read speak to the woman's head being veiled which implies a complete covering of the entire head and not just the top of the head? I wonder what your thoughts on this are?

Thank you again for sharing these things the LORD has placed on your heart.

God Bless
maryjane

Trueblue,

In answer to your question, I believe that based on the WORD it is talking about a literal veil, not her husband.

It is true, that if a woman is married her husband is to work as her head, BUT he never ever supplants God's authority. We have no Scripture teaching us that this is so. God always holds the woman accountable for her decisions - she cannot ever use her husband as an excuse to disobey the headship/commands of Jesus Christ or the WORD.

Take for example the story of Ananias and Sapphira. Ananias lied to the apostles about the sale of their property...he lied and was killed by the LORD. Sapphira came in later and Peter asked her the same question. She repeated what her husband said and the LORD killed her as well. It is important to take lessons from this story because it has a lot to teach us.

Lying is sin.

Peter was giving Sapphira the opportunity to save herself from certain death but she chose to repeat her husbands wish which was a lie.

We also noticed they had agreed to do this beforehand, yet Sapphira was given the option to withdraw from this agreement by Peter, but she did not. God held her accountable. Wives cannot hide behind their husband's rebellion and expect God to honor their decisions. (If this were so consider the the opposite - it could mean a woman cannot come to the LORD unless her husband does first. The implications of holding to this position are staggering.)

We are called to submit to authorities who are over us but NOT at the expense of disobedience to the clear command of the WORD.

My understanding of the WORD - this is an issue I have wrestled with a long time and it is this incident in Acts 5 that taught me about the limited authority of a husband over the wife.

Hope this will not confuse you more...

ginnyrose

by appolus on 2014/6/25 9:55:54

Obviously this topic has been discussed many times on this forum and every time the subject is raised, it garners a lot of replies.

I believe their are, broadly speaking, three categories of Christian women in regard to this matter.

1. Those who cover their heads all the time.
2. Those who only cover their heads when gathered with the Body.
3 Those who do not cover their heads at all.

_______________________

Thank you Frank for summing this up so well. I appreciate those who have shared what the LORD is showing them on this topic.

As for me I will continue to follow the LORD JESUS in this matter as HE has lead me to. I pray often and want to remain open and soft before HIM to know HIS heart in all things. This is just one area that concerns sister in the LORD that I think many new christian women struggle with. There are others as well and at times with so many differing opinions it can be difficult to wade through it all. I have come to see if we truly seek KING JESUS and desire to know HIS heart HE will lead us according to HIS will. As in all things GOD looks at the heart of the matter and as long as we remain open to HIM and HIS authority, daily submitted unto HIM then its all good :)

God bless
maryjane

God Bless
maryjane

Since this discussion is very civilized, I feel I can join and add to it.

Remember, this issue doesn't only affect women:

I am a man who has no wife or children. If the Lord is willing, and someday I become married and perhaps blesses me with sons and daughters, then I will teach this to them. If the Lord chooses to make me a teacher, I will also teach this.

Because of these discussions and from reading the Scriptures, I have begun to take my hat off (I ALWAYS have either a ballcap or a cowboy hat on) whenever I pray--not because I am more righteous than others, but because of what it does represents and because of who commanded it.

I used to take my hat off when I prayed in public, because that was just southern tradition, but at home or in my truck, I left it on. But now my motives are totally different--the glory of God, and regardless of whether I am in public or not, I will try to do whatever I can (I am not perfect) to honor the Lord, even if it is as simple as taking off my hat.

Am I better than you because of that? God forbid that I should glory in anything except the cross of Jesus Christ!

***************************

The problem, I think, without most is that the motives or reasoning behind it is taught incorrectly. Also, I think when we have to look outside the Scriptures to pull a different meaning than what it says alone, then I think we've ventured into dangerous territory.

QUOTE:
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The irony I have found, and this is just my personal experience, which is not limited but quite broad, is that those who practice head coverings all the time, Mennonites or conservative families and so on, do not have women praying or prophesying publicly so the matter is not about obedience to Scripture, rather it is compliance with their own tradition and culture. It is a bondage of legalism to many and tends to be found amongst groups who have or have had problems with legalism.
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This is true. For a lot of conservative Christians this issue has been one that has evolved into legalism. However...can one say that just because this is the case that it will negate the directives of the WORD?

In our brotherhood, the sisters are encouraged to share during times of public sharing, be it testimony of what the LORD has done for you, insights into the WORD that has impacted you, or make prayer requests. We used to pray publicly until our church got quite large but in our cell groups we do pray out loud. Not praying in a large group has nothing to do with church policy - just do not feel led to if there are plenty of males in attendance or just do not feel led to, period.

Methinks one needs to quit looking around and listen to what the Spirit teaches us. The Holy Spirit does not place a burden on us that is too heavy to bear. He will be with us, enabling us and reward us with blessings not detailed in the WORD. Such are the results of walking with the LORD in all of life.

One question that is sure to come and that is, "will refusal to wear it doom a person to hell?" I do not know. Judgement belongs to God, not me. I am content to leave it there. I do know wearing it will not guarantee one entrance to heaven.

Otherwise....why not follow the Lamb wherever He goes and give Him the Honor he deserves? That is what this is all about, is it not?

quote:

"One question that is sure to come and that is, "will refusal to wear it doom a person to hell?" I do not know."

Thank goodness i DO know the answer to that question. The answer is: "no, it absolutely will not."

it is not a sin to refuse to do something that is not required. it is like asking whether refusal to tithe will doom a person to hell.

You have mentioned "in Church" in some of your posts? I was wondering then do you believe this is a commend to follow while women are in church and praying or all the time? I do know some sisters who cover their heads when in prayer but do not wear the cloth cover at all times. I know of some who wear the cloth cover at all times, even when the lay down to sleep at night.

Frankly I do not have light in this area of covering the head all the time. I believe women who do it do it based on the scripture that says pray without ceasing. Since we are always inwardly praying in Spirit they want to cover their head. But I believe regarding Head covering command is only in a gathering of 2 or more believers for the purpose of prayer and encouragement. There is nothing wrong in overdoing something as long as it does not become a dead work.

Regarding the length of head covering, I do not have light on that as well. As long as it is big enough to be a symbol to men and angels it is fine I guess. We cannot be legalistic about how long it should be!

I came across this article from the Gotquestions.org site and thought it was worthy of sharing here:

"Should Christian women wear head coverings?

Answer: 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 addresses the issue of women and head coverings. The context of the entire passage of 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 is submission to the God-given order and "chain of command." A "covering" on a woman's head is used as an illustration of the order, headship, and the authority of God. The key verse of this passage is 1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." The implications of this verse are found in the rest of the passage. The order is: God the Father, God the Son, the man or husband, and the woman or wife. The veil or covering on the head of a believing Corinthian wife showed that she was under the authority of her husband, and therefore under submission to God.

Within this passage is also verse 10: "For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels." Why is that important to angels? The relationship of God with men is something that angels watch and learn from (1 Peter 1:12). Therefore, a woman's submission to God's delegated authority over her is an example to angels. The holy angels, who are in perfect and total submission to God, expect that we, as followers of Christ, be the same.

This covering not only means a cloth but also can refer to a woman's hair length. How can we say that? We must take this verse in the context or the setting in which it is presented. "Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering" (1 Corinthians 11:14-15). Therefore, in the context of this passage, a woman who is wearing her hair longer marks herself out distinctively as a woman and not a man. The Apostle Paul is saying here that in the Corinthian culture, when a wife's hair was longer than her husband's, it showed her submission to his headship. The roles of the male and female are designed by God to portray a profound spiritual lesson, that is of submission to the will and the order of God.

But why is hair an issue in this passage? The apostle Paul is addressing an issue related to the Corinthian culture that was being allowed to disrupt the church. For a woman to have a shaved head was a disgrace (and, in Jewish thinking, a sign of mourning, Deuteronomy 21:12). Her hair was her "glory” (1 Corinthians 11:15). In the Corinthian culture, women normally wore a head covering as a symbol of their submission to their husbands. Paul affirms the rightness of following that cultural mandate””to dispense with the head coverings on women would send the entirely wrong signal to the culture at large. In fact, Paul says that, if a Christian woman refuses her head covering, she might as well shave her hair off, too (verse 6). A woman who refused to wear a covering in that culture was basically saying, "I refuse to submit to God’s order.” Therefore, the apostle Paul is teaching the Corinthians that hair length or the wearing of a "covering” by the woman was an outward indication of a heart attitude of submission to God and to His established authority.

God's order is that the husband is the head of the wife as God is the head of Christ, but there is no inequality or inferiority implied. God and Christ are equal and united, just as the husband and the wife are one. This is not a passage that teaches the woman is inferior to man or that she should be submissive to every man. It is teaching God's order and spiritual headship in the marriage relationship. In the Corinthian culture, a woman who covered her head during worship or when she was in public displayed her submission to authority.

In today's culture, we no longer view a woman's wearing of a head covering as a sign of submission. In most modern societies, scarves and hats are fashion accessories. A woman has the choice to wear a head covering if she views it as a sign of her submission to the authority of her husband. However, it is a personal choice and not something that should be used to judge spirituality. The real issue here is the heart attitude of obedience to God's authority and submission to His established order "as to the LORD” (Ephesians 5:22). God is far more concerned with an attitude of submission than an outward display of submission via a head covering. First Timothy 2:9-10, "I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God."

Source: http://www.gotquestions.org/head-coverings.html#ixzz35l3Arzqt

awakened writes:

I know I am slightly off topic but I feel the issue of fear is a valid concern in relation to this subject matter because no woman should have to live in fear of a man...ever...in any culture, yet that unfortunately is the reality of our world...and in many church circles.

Thought this was another good article from the Got Questions site dealing with head coverings:

http://www.gotquestions.org/hats-in-church.html

Dear sister Mary Jane,

You wrote:

"The truth is I know several sisters who dearly love the LORD and feel convicted wear the head covering. They do so with love in their heart for their husbands and the LORD JESUS. And sadly these same sister have to put up with being made fun of and even mocked by others from both the christian and non christian community."

Thank you for sharing this, for it has often been my own experience. In my own walk with our precious The Lord, He actually guided me to wear a headcovering during prayer and worship, putting this on my heart by His Spirit before I was married and when no one else I knew practiced or believed in this.

I can't tell you how many times my brothers or sisters in Christ have told me that I do not need to wear a headcovering because I have liberty in Christ and that Christ (and now my husband) is my spiritual covering.

I do not look down on my sisters who do not cover their heads...we all are on a unique journey with Him and each other and though we give our bodies to be burned or though we wear headcoverings, it profits us nothing if we do not have that love by which all men will know we are His.

What can hurt is when a desire imparted by the Spirit of God to obey instructions in the New covenant out of love is seen as legalism and bondage by other Christians. It is most often automatically assumed to be so, but I can tell you that neither my husband nor fear of man, nor dead tradition led me to cover my head in prayer and worship, but i do this by the Word and Spirit of God in allegiance to a King immortal, invisible, to honor Him before both enemies and allies in the unseen, specifically angels...it has very little to do with men at all but rather the invisible reality which will one day overtake the vain things of this world and bring us all to stand before His throne.

Neither do I judge any who do not believe as I do. His love, grace, peace, and mercy to each of you my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.

followthelamb wrote:I do not look down on my sisters who do not cover their heads...we all are on a unique journey with Him and each other and though we give our bodies to be burned or though we wear headcoverings, it profits us nothing if we do not have that love by which all men will know we are His.

What can hurt is when a desire imparted by the Spirit of God to obey instructions in the New covenant out of love is seen as legalism and bondage by other Christians. It is most often automatically assumed to be so, but I can tell you that neither my husband nor fear of man, nor dead tradition led me to cover my head in prayer and worship, but i do this by the Word and Spirit of God in allegiance to a King immortal, invisible, to honor Him before both enemies and allies in the unseen, specifically angels...it has very little to do with men at all but rather the invisible reality which will one day overtake the vain things of this world and bring us all to stand before His throne.

Neither do I judge any who do not believe as I do. His love, grace, peace, and mercy to each of you my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.

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Thank you dear sister for sharing your heart with us here. I appreciate what you said, it was done so in love and that is what matters most. I trust GOD is leading each of us as we journey through this life and if we keep our hearts open and soft to HIS leading HE will guide us. I appreciate that you are following the things HE has placed on your heart and doing so faithful unto HIM! Praise GOD for that, as I do the same I give thanks that we can walk together and mutually lift one another up in prayer and encourage each other to press in deeper to walk submitting unto JESUS!!

God bless you
maryjane

...it has very little to do with men at all but rather the invisible reality which will one day overtake the vain things of this world and bring us all to stand before His throne.

Thank you, sister! I wish I thought more like this about everything!

followthelamb writes:

I do not look down on my sisters who do not cover their heads...we all are on a unique journey with Him and each other and though we give our bodies to be burned or though we wear headcoverings, it profits us nothing if we do not have that love by which all men will know we are His.

May we be careful not to wrongly accuse each other of any sinful motives.