The Pure Milk of the Word

(As I write this I wonder what our Reformed brethren wound make of this).

But I have noticed when I have posted OP`s about our need to be in the word, particularly the New Testament, you tend to oppose me on this.

I find this puzzling since you have often said if you gave a New Testament to a person in a foreign culture. And that person read the New Testament would they come to the same religious convictions we hold so dear on the Bible belt.

For the record, I agree with the OP for the most part. I also like what Greg had to say. If the swipe at reformed brethren hadn't been there, I would have just passed by and not said anything.

Brother Paul

good post

what i find a bit anoying is that if i believe in the sovernty of god and the bodage of will a type of sourvern election ,,im denomilisiad and branded a reformed brother who pays to much atention to theoligy ,,,when i disoverd my views from scripture and solidafied them with some times 4 to 6 hours of bibles readings in a day ,,never read calvin or luther

we need to watch out we arent the ones creating a denominational mind set in the opasite direction ,,by seeing other blood bought christian as some our not in our camp due to minor doctrines like that ,,even a non denominal brother can set up the fences around is own personly theoligy and project this view as being no denominal ,,but in essence it is just as devisive as any denoination

i think all veiws should be expressed and expounded from scripture in our congragation and let owr own minds decide through prayer and bible study what we want to believe

like a brother said mark i think he said it humbles him and he learns to listen ,,when he sits in a reformed gathering

when we get to the pint and feel we can fellwoship with a calvinist and a carsmatiic ,,or an strait talking ariminian ,,,we are then the verry problem we see in others

we are all the product or the shisim from the catholic ,,,and that is realy the camp we are in , and that is whare the line is drawn and the fences have been erected ,, on deviding doctrines ,,we dont need any more fences

I agree that the Word of God must be the main thing that we study above all else. We must make time for it each day and meditate on it day and night. Yet there is a place for learning from gifted teachers of the Word with whom God has blessed us. Ephesians 4:11-12 says, "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."

Some Christians are opposed to the use of commentaries because they say it is not allowing the Holy Spirit to teach us directly. Yet if we follow that line of reasoning to it's logical conclusion, it would mean doing away with sermons, because sermons are like commentaries on the Word of God from men, they are teachings of the Word. It would mean doing away with websites like this. And it would mean doing away with discussion forums like this because they too are teachings of the Word, like commentaries.

"It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others. My chat this afternoon is not for these great originals, but for you who are content to learn of holy men, taught of God, and mighty in the Scriptures. It has been the fashion of late years to speak against the use of commentaries…A respectable acquaintance with the opinions of the giants of the past, might have saved many an erratic thinker from wild interpretations and outrageous inferences” (C H Spurgeon).

exactly oraco that whar that logic must led

Greetings

While I do agree it is important to be reading the BIBLE each day and seeking to grow in HIM. I do also believe there are no limitations to the other many resources GOD uses to teach us and grow us who HE has for us to be. I have been blessed, challenged, and seen growth in my own walk by the words given and shared here on SI, by the writings of those who have gone before as well as those who are here with us now.So many times things everyday men and woman who come to the site and post have blessed me. I have come to appreciate that GOD uses the WORD to teach me, HE uses others to teach me, HE uses life to teach me. I find if I keep my eyes on HIM, walking with HIM then there is always a teachable moment happening and it does not matter where I am or what I am doing. The HOLY SPIRIT has no boundaries and GOD has no limits.

God bless
maryjane

I was listening to a Bible teacher I really like the other day and he was saying how he values commentaries but does not like his Bible to have notes, or commentary, in it. The Bible should be just the word of God. If you want a commentary you should have to put your Bible down (or go to another screen).

I think this is great advice. When I was 16 my grandma gave me a Ryrie study Bible for my b-day. It's the one I wanted because my youth pastor recommended it.

Looking back I got much of my theology not from the Word but from the copious notes explaining almost every verse.

Over the years my theology on some pretty major topics differs from that expressed in that study Bible. I wish now that I had just read the word alone without the notes.

TMK I agree with that advice. The Word itself should be separate and we should not go straight to commentaries or sermons without first allowing the Word itself to speak to us directly. But once we read and meditate on a given passage there is nothing wrong with consulting other aids. That shows a teachable spirit and the Lord blesses that. I think it's interesting sometimes to hear Bible teachers discourage the use of commentaries. I think to myself, "If you don't believe I should learn from Bible commentaries, why should I learn from your Bible teaching which is similar?" In other words, "Why do you yourself try to teach others the Word if you don't believe we should learn from such aids?"

sermonindex writes:

The Word of God is not an end in itself. It speaks of a person. Once read the Bible memorize it, claim its facts but not have its life. Do we know Jesus Christ personally. Do we worship God with our entire body, soul and spirit? This is why the Bible does not just say belief but there is action with our belief including calls to gather as the Church, Lord's Supper, Baptism, etc. The Lord is to be experienced and worshipped and that does not happen through simply reading the Bible, it goes beyond that.

I have come to meet the God of the Word. Otherwise we will only hear of the God of the Bible and not experience Him.

John 17:3 to Know God is eternal life not to read about Him. So again the Word of God is simply a means to a more important Person. Yet of course the Word of God is the most valuable possession we have on this earthly sphere.

"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."-2Tim.2:15

I have come to meet the God of the Word. Otherwise we will only hear of the God of the Bible and not experience Him.

Both trees yield fruit, but only one brings true Christ-conformity. The other tree, the tree of knowledge, actually brings death. Legalistic believers love to use the scriptures as a weapon, having filled their bellies with the wrong kind of fruit. The tree of knowledge bears fruit that puffs you up; the tree of life bears fruit that deflates you and magnifies Christ. It makes us small, so we can fit through the eye of a needle, and so we can receive the grace of God to overcome temptation, bad habits, selfishness, unbelief - and ultimately become more and more like Jesus Christ in every fiber of our being.

The amazing thing is that when you partake of the tree of life, you don't need to keep gorging yourself. You just need to eat it once and get it into your spirit by obeying it. Now, the other fruit, from the tree of knowledge, needs to be gorged over and over again lest it escapes your mind and you forget it. These are good tests to see if you're eating from the tree of knowledge:

1. If you're forcing yourself to remember verses, via index cards or witty mnemonics, because they keep alluding your mind.

2. If you find yourself coming under guilt and possible condemation because you missed a day or two of reading the Word.

3. If you find your Bible reading laborious and forced.

4. If a preacher or teacher makes you feel worthless to God because you don't read the Bible as often as you should, especially on account of believers in repressed countries who do not own Bibles.

5. If you pride yourself for being able to fire off categorically-memorized scripture passages, replete with the chapter and verse in order to win a debate or make yourself appear "spiritual".

Conversely, when you eat the fruit from the tree of life, you get the life of Jesus Christ built up in you and none of these silly things matter. In fact, the exact opposite is often exhibited in many of the above points: You begin to shun Bible debates; index cards have no effect; preachers and teachers who operate in the letter of the law (i.e. the tree of knowledge) are exposed by the Holy Spirit and henceforth avoided; Bible reading is spontaneous, natural, joyous, unforced and never by the clock. When you come to the Word of God as the tree of life, there is rest. Prayer naturally follows the reading, like perfume.

You have no idea how many people get furious when I teach these things. It is only about knowing Christ more deeply, more intimately, more completely. The way you approach the scriptures will either bring you to Him, or drive you away.

that was exactly my point blain ,,,that we can spend much time feeding on scripture ,,and come to totally different conclusion ,, with out the influence of commentary's

I think also you need to make a distinction between the gifts of the holy spirit ,,and the offices of the holy spirit

I don't think we should look down and be divisive towards those who feel called to go to a seminary where a gifted teacher might reside,,,,the us and them ,,im better casue I don't go to a seminary I just rellie on the bible attitude is steeped heavily in pride and we must repnt of thinking like that,,,,im speaking generly not at any one

blessings

a testimony..?

Well,...With the help of The Lord,who I was depending on,He
led me,in this way.

When He was drawing me to Him ( His Way ) (Grace)) He drew me to SUCH a Hunger to read His Word.And He impressed upon me mightily ,DO NOT GET ANY MATERIAL,.....just get My Word...and I will teach you.?...and to do that,it would only confuse me) I had no idea that was even in the Bible until many years later.

(1 Jn.2:27)," But the anointing which ye received
of Him abideth in you,and ye need not that any man teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you,ye shall abide in Him."

In our beginning,I believe ,And I imphasise,In the BEGINNING of our faith,
it is most important to allow The Lord to teach us.So what else can I go by.And isn't that what He wants,... is for us all his children,to be led by His Spirit ? And isn't He foremost,the Greatest Teacher ?And how else can we not be tossed to and fro ? Not that we KNOW all things,..but He begins,and
continues to teach us.

And not only that,...He will bring Words / Scriptures, up ,..even onto our tongue,...in time of need.(He will bring all things to our remembrance.)

So what do I say more...yes Bro. Bear,we are to hunger for the Word,
as a baby hungers for it's milk,....and needs it's milk.It may be by reading
The Word,or by thinking on Him and His Words are flowing up into our mouths.

Forever and always needing His help,
elizabeth

Conversely, when you eat the fruit from the tree of life, you get the life of Jesus Christ built up in you and none of these silly things matter. In fact, the exact opposite is often exhibited in many of the above points: You begin to shun Bible debates; index cards have no effect; preachers and teachers who operate in the letter of the law (i.e. the tree of knowledge) are exposed by the Holy Spirit and henceforth avoided; Bible reading is spontaneous, natural, joyous, unforced and never by the clock. When you come to the Word of God as the tree of life, there is rest. Prayer naturally follows the reading, like perfume.

You have no idea how many people get furious when I teach these things. It is only about knowing Christ more deeply, more intimately, more completely. The way you approach the scriptures will either bring you to Him, or drive you away.

_______________________

Thank you so much for sharing this with us here. I really needed to be reminded of this truth just now. There is much condemnation that can be aimed at those who do not follow a strict formula of reading the BIBLE every day.

I don't want to read the BIBLE because someone has told me I have to, I want to be in the WORD because of who JESUS is and the overwhelming desire of my heart is to know HIM more each day.

God bless
maryjane

I think the main issue in the OP is whether other resources have a place. For us to imply they should have no place and yet to try to teach or share from the Word on this forum doesn't make any sense to me. Again, if its just the Bible and us individually why the need for this website, sermons, and discussion forum where there is teaching?

Brother I ask respectfully Are you making a distinction between devotional discipline in reading the word and legalism?

Its like saying, you should only listen to MY insights into the Word.

Of course they are brother bear, but what would make your insights better than theirs if they are godly Spirit-filled men? Why should I only listen to your insights brother? That's what I'm trying to get at.

Previously I mentioned a Bible teacher I really like. The reason is that when he teaches he does not have a particular agenda. He is not afraid to explain the various ways that verses have been interpreted without stating explicitly which view he thinks is correct although he will give his opinion as to which view he thinks is best supported by scripture.

If I had a commentary that did the same thing; I.e. It did not approach scripture from a reformed or arminian viewpoint or a futurist v preterist viewpoint or a charismatic vs cessationist viewpoint I think it would be awesome. In other words if it laid out ALL the views without preferring any, it would be helpful.

TMK, I'm sure many of us have heard the expression, "chew and feast on the meat, spit out the bones." And I'm sure many of us can testify to times when we heard or read something and said, "My spirit doesn't bear witness to that", or,"That is the truth!"

I am convinced that in these days there is definitely a need for authoritative teaching or preaching of God's Word. That is what separates true preachers of righteousness from speculators or motivational speakers. Of course, it must be in accordance with sound doctrine.

True-- for those of us who have been around the block-- but for a new believer it would be vet easy to get entrenched in a certain way of thinking depending on what study bible they are using. It definitely happened to me.

True TMK. And on the other hand there is the danger of new believers being exposed to and deceived by serious error such as WOF, which is what happened to me. I would rather for any new believer to learn from either Calvinists or Arminians than serious heresies. In the early church the gift of teaching was very useful in the discipling of new believers. And it is not less useful or needful today I'd say, because the Lord is still using that gift mightily for the building up of His Church.

I came across this brief devotional article by Andrew Murray on that passage in 1 Peter 2 which I thought gives great insights on that passage so I thought I'd share the link to it here. Not to take away from the OP though because I do think brother Blaine's insights there are good too for the most part except for my disagreement on the use of other resources:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=263

i love you to blain ,,and would rather fellowship with you rather then a milion luke warm hipachristians

oraco im in total agreement with you

what is a comonetary ,,ist it just one mans interpratation of scripture ,,,,,no if mens interprartions are not nesary,,then it is not nesary for me to listen to any one here who preachs what they think the holy sripture ,,i dont need need to none of rantings mmi got me bible and i know better then ya all becasue i have the holy spiirt ,,and the bible says a dont need a teacher

as a mater of fact ,,we dont need to preach the gopsle either we can just give out bibles and let god do the rest ,,if he is going to save and teach peeople the gosple ,,,he will do it with out me

you know what that sounds like a hypacalvinism approch to teaching ,,,thats what the hypacalies said we dont need to preach the gosple ,,gods spirit will do all the work

wile i was typing a vesre came to mind ,where jesus comands his deciples to make deciples of all the nations teaching all things that he has comanded them

what was one of his comands,,, to teach them everything he said

it is part of the great comision teaching and evangeliseing ,,it is not to be seperated

blessings

Every man is a product of his environment in a natural sense and a spiritual one.

We all get born into a culture, a way of doing things, a way of being a family, everyone.

Added to that, everyone follows someone, everyone. Its the way God works generation to generation to generation. We look for those who see things the same way we do, and within that context there will be those who seem to be pillars in the church.

When someone is born again they have no idea about strange fire, benny Hinn, or Mike Brown.

Its the older brothers and sisters in the faith who open their eyes to the realities of the spiritual dynamic in which we live.

This is not bad, this is the way families operate. It affords some degree of protection for babes in Christ.

Every commentary has its own bent, but in saying that there are some which are universally accepted as being of more spiritual substance than others. By and large you can't go pretty much wrong with what they say.

A good question to ask is if someone who was just born again, what would be the first thing that i taught them? Would it be the centrality of Christs work or an expose' on the merits of TULIP.

Exactly brothagary. I also think we can be in danger of belittling one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which is undoubtedly in operation today, namely the gift of teaching.

Some well-meaning believers refer to 1John 2:27 which says we do not need anyone to teach us to support this view of doing away with teaching. But whatever that verse means it cannot mean doing away with the sound teaching of God's Word because that would be a clear contradiction of many passages that encourage the gift of teaching.

ZekeO, I am totally with you on that.

I love the Scriptures.

That being said, let me cite a few for us:

John 5:37-40

And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

It is so easy to fall into this when we treat reading the Bible like trying to earn a boyscout badge. There are many people who have huge passages of the Scriptures memorized but that's it. They do not apply it. They can quote scripture right and left but there is no application. And it most certainly doesn't lead them or those whom they influence to Jesus. Brother PaulWest said that same thing earlier in the thread.

I read this yesterday in Jeremiah 22:

"Shall you reign because you enclose yourself in cedar?
Did not your father eat and drink,
And do justice and righteousness?
Then it was well with him.
He judged the cause of the poor and needy;
Then it was well.
Was not this knowing Me?” says the Lord.
"Yet your eyes and your heart are for nothing but your covetousness,
For shedding innocent blood,
And practicing oppression and violence.”

Immediately, when I read it, it weighed heavily upon me. I have been studying and learning about the fear of God and the importance of the scriptures and when I came across this, I was reminded how absolutely important it is to allow every verse of scripture, every attribute of God, every truth I find to transform me, and not just passively, but actively. And that only happens if I am abiding in Jesus Christ. Knowing God is not memorizing a bunch of facts. Knowing God is LIFE. I heard a sermon one time and the speaker said something like: You will not be judged for the amount of knowledge in your head, but for the way you applied that knowledge.

Look at John 6, after Jesus told His disciples to eat His flesh and drink His blood:

Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?”

Our flesh profits nothing. Knowing Jesus Christ produces real, lasting fruit as John 14, 15, 16, 17 clearly display over and over. Only Jesus.

That's why a new believer who has only been walking with the Lord for a very short time can still discover some very, very profound things! It is because it is ALL bred out of a relationship with Jesus Christ. He is the beginning and finality of our spiritual lives.

*****************************************

The other side of this coin is this:

There are so many people who treat someone who knows the Scriptures like a pharisee, when they are not. Now I can be hard. I really can be and I have to keep myself in check because I can be so blunt and so full of youthful zeal. However, there are times (I am not talking about on this forum, but in my church) when I lovingly remind brothers and sisters what the scriptures say and I get hammered with "That's YOUR interpretation!" or "I know what the Bible says!!!!" or "Your opinionated just like a woman!" (and that has really been said to me). I just get bashed over the head again and again for trying to actually do what the Bible says and then hold others accountable for what it says. Not condemning. Not judging. Just saying, "Brother the Scriptures say..."

I was meditating on 1 John 2:27 and seeking to understand its meaning and application. I believe context is very key there. In the NKJV it reads, "But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.”

In that epistle John is combating certain forms of false teaching that were creeping into the churches. The false teachers seem to have been implying that the believers needed to heed their particular teaching in order to be saved. Yet their teaching was anti-Christ in nature, denying that Jesus is the Christ (1John 2:22-23) and denying that Christ had come in the flesh (1John.4:3). John says in essence, "You don’t need these false teachers because you have the anointing of the Holy Ghost to lead you into all truth.”

It’s not saying that the ministerial gift of teaching is not needed. It is saying that the anointing that we have all received surmounts or is above all human teaching, and that that anointing will help us in distinguishing between truth and error when we hear a teaching.

Hi Oracio,

The 1 John 2:27 verse you quoted can be cross-referenced with:

Matt 23:8-10 - [Jesus speaking] "But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ."

John 16:13 - "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."

Amen yeuhan.

Agreed Blaine. And yet there must be a way of reconciling that truth with the passages in the New Testament which encourage the gift of teaching along with other gifts of the Holy Ghost.

This is where Body ministry comes into play. We cannot say we don't need the blessing that comes from one another's gifting. We are not meant to be an island.

Sure, if there is only one new believer in a location and he/she only has a New Testament then definitely the Lord Himself will teach that new believer directly the truth as it is in Jesus. But I'd say there is a chance that that new believer may not grow as fast as if they were under the leadership of a mature elder who knows the Word well and has lived it out for many years. That new believer may struggle more in his learning without that ministerial gift.

That's what shepherds are there for in the Body, to feed the flock of God; to help guide them by the power of the Holy Ghost, to help guard them and keep them from serious error. God Himself has established that type of ministry. Why not receive all that the Lord wants to give us as a Body and as believers in Christ? It is for our blessing and not for our harm.

Bottom line all a believer needs is a New Testament and the Holy Spirit to guide them into the truth of Jesus.

Everything else is optional or an added blessing.

Brother Blaine,

I have to disagree. When Paul told young Timothy that all scripture was inspired and profitable for doctrine, and when Peter told his readers that false prophets twisted the writings of Paul as well as the other Scriptures, they were not talking about the NT only. They were talking about the Old Testament as well.

Do you know how much wisdom I have gained from proverbs that is not found in the NT?

Almost entire definition of what it means to pour out my heart before the Lord comes nearly exclusively from the Psalms.

The scriptures are so intricately woven into the fabric of Christianity that an attempt to pull them out, or ascribe to them uselessness would destroy the whole thing.

We MUST have the OT. There is not some dicotomy between the OT and NT that nullifies the OT. The NT is the completion of the old, not the replacement. And I am talking about books here, not covenants.

Greetings Blaine

You wrote:Bottom line all a believer needs is a New Testament and the Holy Spirit to guide them into the truth of Jesus.

_______________________

What of the Old Testament? Its HIS story all of it. How could you not include that?

For so long I struggled with the old testament, didn't want to read it. Then as I prayed and asked GOD to really give me a desire to know HIM, HE took me into some of the wonderful stories and history of the Old Testament. In them I found some of HIS character that I had not fully seen before. I saw HIS love for us from the beginning of time, and HIS faithfulness. I learned that I could trust that when GOD speaks it is true and there is no doubt. I learned that HE is righteous and HOLY and beyond my understanding. In short everything I learned in the Old Testament pointed me to JESUS and paved the road that lead me right up to the cross. I would never take that away from any believer, new or otherwise.

God bless
maryjane

Bottom line all a believer needs is a New Testament and the Holy Spirit to guide them into the truth of Jesus.

Everything else is optional or an added blessing.

In short everything I learned in the Old Testament pointed me to JESUS and paved the road that lead me right up to the cross. I would never take that away from any believer, new or otherwise.

God bless
maryjane

The thought came to mind, the Principles book was a blessing for me to read as it contains great teaching and insights into the Word from godly Spirit-filled brethren. I also know that brother Paul-West has written at least one book I'm aware of, as well as moderator RobertW. If a new believer had a Bible as well as those books, should he/she just chuck those books in the trash because they only need to read their Bible? Of course not because there is a place for those other resources, though a minor one compared to the place the Bible is to have.

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

How does the HS teach us all things? I suppose he can do it by mystical revelation, but I think about 95% of the time He does it through fellow believers and teachers.

What is difficult to understand is how diametrically opposed viewpoints about certain scriptures can be sincerely held by different believers all who would say the HS has convinced them that their understanding is correct but when obviously both views cant be right, ie the truth.

I believe God allows this to test His Church; whether they can maintain unity in the face of such differences. I would say for the most part there has been failure in this area although I am hopeful as we approach the end of the age this will improve.

The problem is that we are equating the OT with the old covenant and the NT with the new covenant.

The OT Contains the old covenant but it is not only the old covenant. Jesus is assuredly the clearest revelation of God; however that does not mean that everything prior to Matthew is obsoleted or extraneous.

Let's say I had a 69 chevelle and all it was missing was the motor. I buy the motor, bring it to my shop, load up the rest of the vehicle and take it to the dump. What kind of sense does that make? I have the motor, the most important part, but what good is it, even if it is a big block? It's very good, but without the rest it just isn't complete.

The verse says as newborn infants to desire the basic "milk" of the word that we can "grow." Hebrews speaks of the "meat" of the word of those able to discern between righteousness and unrighteousness. So may we grow!

I believe this is a picture of a new believer. The Holy Spirit expects him to believe the scripture is true without any doubt and eat it just like how the baby drinks the milk. There is no need for any theology or doctrine here. Just read and believe.

But God has designed a mother's body such that the milk is produced only for a certain duration after Child birth. After 6 months the baby needs solid food. This is exactly the picture in Hebrews. God wants us to mature and take his word as solid food.

Jesus was a mature believe at the age of 30 when he had ability to discern good from evil by practice. Satan in Luke 4:1 tried to deceive him by misquoting scripture. He did not fall by them like a new born baby, but was mature and quoted another scripture to tackle the schemes of Devil. A new born believer would have believed in those quotes by Satan and would have led away from God's will. Never having a complete picture of Bible.

i think it is ridiculas to say teachers are not needed all we need is the word of god ,,when the word of god says he has given teachers ..we need to hear the word of god when it says god has given some to be teachers for the work of ministry for the edifying of the body

I like oracaos take on john where it say we have the anointing we don't need teachers

but I tend to lean to the others scripture that says ,,,none of them shale teach his neabour saying no yea the lord for all of them shall know me from the least of them to the greatest ,,, Hebrews I think

hence is why we have the anointing we don't need any body to teach us to know the lord we all know him from the least to the greatest

brothagary writes:

i think it is ridiculas to say teachers are not needed all we need is the word of god ,,when the word of god says he has given teachers ..we need to hear the word of god when it says god has given some to be teachers for the work of ministry for the edifying of the body

I like oracaos take on john where it say we have the anointing we don't need teachers

but I tend to lean to the others scripture that says ,,,none of them shale teach his neabour saying no yea the lord for all of them shall know me from the least of them to the greatest ,,, Hebrews I think

hence is why we have the anointing we don't need any body to teach us to know the lord we all know him from the least to the greatest

TMK writes:

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

How does the HS teach us all things? I suppose he can do it by mystical revelation, but I think about 95% of the time He does it through fellow believers and teachers.

What is difficult to understand is how diametrically opposed viewpoints about certain scriptures can be sincerely held by different believers all who would say the HS has convinced them that their understanding is correct but when obviously both views cant be right, ie the truth.

I believe God allows this to test His Church; whether they can maintain unity in the face of such differences. I would say for the most part there has been failure in this area although I am hopeful as we approach the end of the age this will improve.

This is why we must guard against a mindset that completely belittles the history of the Church and the unanimously received essential teachings that were handed down from the apostles and prophets. It's been said, if it's new it ain't true, and if it's true, it ain't new.

The spirit of this age will try to deceive us and tempt us to receive some new teaching that is contrary to the clear teaching of God's Word and we must be on guard against that.

As Gregg pointed out at the beginning of this thread, Peter was refering to the Books of the Law and the Prophets. And in this exhortation Peter ascribes the word "pure" to the "word of God."

Jesus also exhorts His disciples to focus on the "word of God" as the means by which one will be enabled to "understand" all parables. Again, Jesus was refering to the Books of the Law and the Prophets. Listen to what He says to His disciples...

Mar 4:13
And He said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?

How is the exhortation by Jesus conected with the Tree of Life?

bearmaster writes:

As I was listening to Galatians this morning these verses resonated in my spirit. In Gal. 4:1-7 Paul describes our relationship as one of maturity under the New Covenant. He says we are no longer slaves but now sons because we have the Holy Spirit by which we cry Abba Father.

On Heb. 8:10 we are told that in the New Covenant He will write His laws in our hearts and minds. We are also told in Heb. 8:11 that we will not be taught saying know the Lord as all will know Him from the least to the greatest.

In the chapel of Reformed Theological Seminary there is a lofty 9 foot podium where the broken word is revered. This Calvinistic tradition has passed down into our American churches. Probably derived from the Jewish Old Covenant.

Is this model viable under the New Covenant where all have the Holy Spirit to teach them directly the word. Do We really need a mediator to stand between us and God to break open the word?

I wound suggest we need to rethink relationship between us and God and one another. For clearly one model is religious. And one is relational. And one believes that all believers have equal access to Christ under the New Covenant.

As usual these are my thoughts.

Blaine

Blaine, it's interesting you point that difference out. I would agree with your emphasis on the need to teach one another as co-equal priests of God. Yet there is the role of shepherds and/or teachers who have a special gift of teaching which is different than that "one-another" type of teaching. These shepherds/teachers are given to feed the flock in a special way. There is definitely a place for one or more pastors to lead in the teaching of God's Word. This is biblical and healthy and is crystal clear in the New Testament. Yes, there are "dictators" who try to lord it over God's people but not every traditional pastor is like that.

In the chapel of Reformed Theological Seminary there is a lofty 9 foot podium where the broken word is revered. This Calvinistic tradition has passed down into our American churches. Probably derived from the Jewish Old Covenant

I agree that one-pastor led churches are not biblical in regards to structure.

I agree that we can all learn one from another.

But brother, what are the purpose of elders according to the Scriptures? Isn't a portion of their role to teach? Aren't older women encouraged to teach the younger women in the Scriptures?

Brother, I want to humbly submit to you that this is not a calvinist tradition verses biblical model issue. This is not even an old covenant vs. new covenant issue. This is an issue regarding the Inspiration and sufficiency of the Scriptures.

We cannot simply say that every believer will naturally gravitate toward truth. Why would Paul admonish and warn Timothy about the times in which we currently live if that were so?

No one has to teach me to know God. I know Him and He knows me. But sanctification and holiness, doctrine, and wisdom are things that are gained over the course of time through the encouragement of other believers under the loving, servent-direction of men whom the Lord has gifted to help Shepherd His church. All of it should be in the power of the Holy Spirit; however, the Lord has chosen to humble us and have us depend one upon another by not revealing the entire summation of truth to each individual, but through the members as He is pleased to. And He chooses men for Himself, who walking in humility and servanthood, will help steer the congregation toward Jesus Christ. We all stumble in many ways, brother. That is why not many of us should be teachers. Would James had given that admonition if the Lord intended there to be none?

And again, I want to remind everyone, including myself, that the first 39 books of the Bible (commonly called the Old Testament) merely contain that testament. They are not useless. They are not "broken words".

Brother blaine, when the Bereans searched the scriptures to see if what Paul said was true--the Gospel (the New covenant), what books do you think they searched? Wasn't it the Old Testament?

Luk 8:11
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Luk 8:12
"Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Luk 8:13
"But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Luk 8:14
"Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

Luk 8:15
"But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

We know from Scripture that man can only sow or water but the "word of God" is the means by which men receive the "increase" that comes from God. We know that man teaching one another can only speak about the 'shadow" of the covenant. Yet we know from Scripture that salvation is dependent on "hearing" the Word of God.

So why does Peter encourage the believer's to feed on the "pure milk of the word of God"?

Are we afraid of leaving the imperfect thoughts of men? Are we afraid of losing our traditions? Are we afraid of losing the acceptance of man?

Rookie,
I appreciate the good questions you are asking.

I do not know just how to figure out / explain too good,but
Jesus is The Tree of Life.

Jn.6:63, " It is The Spirit that giveth Life,the flesh profeteth noting. The Words that I speak unto you,they are Spirit and they are Life. Vs.64,But there are some of you that believe not."

The Lord wants us to be led by The Spirit of God,...(Who is Word Spirit),...
The Words that He offers us are Life,..We can choose to ...eat this Bread of Life, or we can choose to eat our own bread / word / will,...way.

So do we eat from The Tree of Life,or our own way ,instead of His Way ?
( I am The Way )

Rookie, these are just some things that came to mind.
Is this,maybe,somewhat,that you are asking?

elizabeth

rookie writes:

We know from Scripture that man can only sow or water but the "word of God" is the means by which men receive the "increase" that comes from God. We know that man teaching one another can only speak about the 'shadow" of the covenant. Yet we know from Scripture that salvation is dependent on "hearing" the Word of God.

So why does Peter encourage the believer's to feed on the "pure milk of the word of God"?

Are we afraid of leaving the imperfect thoughts of men? Are we afraid of losing our traditions? Are we afraid of losing the acceptance of man?

Do we really despise that particular gifting that much? Some of us pride ourselves in saying we believe in all the gifts of the Spirit, especially certain miraculous ones which are in dispute among Christians. Yet it seems we belittle the obvious gifts and workings of the Spirit today.

Might some of us have a root of bitterness towards churches or Christians or ministers who are not part of our ecclesiological system or way of doing things? Might we have a certain type of "remnant" mentality that excludes and belittles other sound churches or believers for whom Christ died?

I say all that as one who has had that kind of unhealthy "remnant" mindset and who had to learn the hard way the wrongness of it.

Elizabeth wrote:

So do we eat from the Tree of Life, or our own way, instead of HIs Way?
(I am The Way)

Yes sis. John wrote this about The Life...

1Jo 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life””

1Jo 1:2
the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us””

The "Word of life" is the source of salvation. "Eternal life" according to Scripture is a work of God in the individual. "Eternal life" is given to those who live by faith.

Oracio writes:

Respectfully, this is about obeying the pure milk of God's Word which tells us that the Lord has given the gift of teaching along with other spiritual gifts to believers as He wills.

According to Scripture there are only two families in God's creation. According to Scripture there are two spiritual paths one has to choose from. Either the path offered by Christ through the Holy Spirit or the path already chosen for fallen man. Fallen man finds himself in bondage to Satan. So in the parable of the sower which paths lead to death and which path leads to eternal life in Christ?

rookie,

We know that man teaching one another can only speak about the 'shadow" of the covenant.

Please show me where this is in Scriptures. Thanks!

havok20x writes:

I agree that one-pastor led churches are not biblical in regards to structure.

That said, I believe some of us get hung up on this non-essential issue of church structure to the point that we refuse to fellowship in a church if it has a "senior pastor", even if there are other pastors/elders to whom he is accountable.

Again, I speak as one who used to get all hung up on church structure and finally had to realize I was making a mountain out of a molehill.

I understand that some believers may live in areas where there aren't any healthy nearby churches where they can get fed the Word without serious error. If that is you my heart goes out to you and I would only encourage you to hang in there and to keep seeking the Lord on your own and praying that He leads you to some type of fellowship in His timing. But I believe that some of us can be so much against traditional churches with a senior teaching pastor that we can miss out on good fellowship that may be available to us nearby.

Good point, Oracio.

I go to a church that has 1 pastor.

I do believe it is a non-essential for salvation. And of course if I go and plant a church, it doesn't automatically have elders, but if I am planting a church, my job isn't to run it, necessarily. It it is to work with it until it is mature enough to continue on its own. Paul planted churches and appointed elders. That is the model we see, Biblically, for places that have nothing.

I suppose a believer could plant a church and stay and appoint elders to work with him.

I am against a single-pastor system just like I am against using our church credit card to buy stuff. And what I mean by that is that I will voice what I think and show what I see in the scriptures, but I am certainly not going to call down fire over it...lol

I prayed about it several years ago, and I believe the Lord showed me that, while it is not the best situation, we aren't walking in open and blatant sin to only have 1 pastor. And I am well-aware that almost no one else in my church is qualified to be an elder, and of the 1 or 2 of those who are qualified, I don't think anyone would want to do it.

*******************

concerning "non-essentials" I would say we need to be careful putting things under that label. Because the label non-essentials has a cousin called "useless" and everyone gets those confused....lol

We will spend our entire lives, as believers, slowly, yet surely bringing our lives, our families, and our churches under the submission and lordship of Jesus Christ. We are not resurrected yet, so perfection is absolutely fleeting, but we are to strive for it with humble vehemence, knowing that only through knowing the Father and Jesus Christ whom he sent, could we ever even cast our eyes in the right direction.

Amen havokx20. I guess I haven't thought of a better way to term these kinds of issues over which there is so much unnecessary division. I agree they are important topics to discuss respectfully though.

havok20x asks:

Please show me where this is in Scripture.

Paul confirms this precept in the following verses...

Eph 3:14
For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,f
Eph 3:15
from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

Eph 3:16
that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man,

Eph 3:17
that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

Eph 3:18
may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height””

Eph 3:19
to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Paul can only sow or water, he can only testify of the covenant that God established with him. He prays to God for those he has ministered to receive the increase that can only come from the Holy Spirit. The covenant is only a shadow for those who have not witnessed the Holy Spirit's work.

For Paul, God's covenant is not a shadow but a reality. And he prays this for those he ministered to...
Eph 3:18
may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height””

Eph 3:19
to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Until one "comprehends" the covenant God makes with the individual, the knowledge of the covenant is just a shadow of things unseen.

Okay,

I got your meaning now. Thank you!

However, can I ask you to clarify how what you are saying applies to the gift of teaching and the sufficiency of the Scriptures?

I am having a hard time following what you mean. Sorry. lol

Oracio,

I wonder what would happen if, when we discovered that we believe different things or that we weren't all saying or thinking the same things, we got down on our knees in prayer and poured through the scriptures and sought the Lord? I can't imagine anything bringing more unity amongst us than seeking the Lord and desiring to know His will.

After all, if we are all pursuing Him, we'll end up in the same place...lol

Now if I could go back to the OP for a minute. The exhortation is to long for the pure milk of the word so that by it we may grow in respect to salvation. But how do we long for that pure milk of the word? How is this worked out?

The most obvious answer is to pick up our Bibles and read them. But can that longing be to hear Spirit filled anointed teachers share the word.

Just wondering.

Blaine

Agreed brother Blaine. Both are vitally important.

habok20x asks...

"However, can I ask you to clarify how what you are saying applies to the gift of teaching and sufficiency of the Scriptures?"

There is a saying amongst the local Anabaptists here in central PA. "God doesn't call the qualified, He qualifies the called." Peter is a perfect example of how God works in man to accomplish His purpose.

When Peter exhorts...

1Pe 2:1
Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,

1Pe 2:2
as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,fn

1Pe 2:3
if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

Through Scripture, Peter is presented to us as one who was selected by God to preach the good news, the gospel of Jesus Christ. We see that God entrusted him with the power of the Holy Spirit to find favor amongst his brethren.

Peter exhorts those who read his epistle to put off the old ways and as newborn babes, to feed on the pure milk of the word of God. You see, Peter himself, has been taught in like manner has he not? One can only witness to others as he has learned from God. And according to the Scriptures, God has ordained that His Word is the means by which men are freed from the bonds of Satan. Jesus, when tempted by Satan, demonstrated the power of the Scriptures to fend off Satan's attack in the wilderness.

Most in the American church see the Scriptures as a collection of stories. They have as in the parable of the sower, not endured the various ways in which Satan attacks the individual to keep him from comprehending the life changing power behind the words of Scripture...

In the last verse highlighted Peter posses this question...

1Pe 2:3
if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

How does the "pure milk of the word" taste? Peter claims it is life changing.

Ecc 5:1
Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil.

According to the verse above, can you identify your motivation for reading Scripture?

Ask God to show you, for the word of God is able to show you the intents of your heart.

I can always walk more prudently.

There are days when I read the scriptures and it's for me. And there are days when it is to know Him more.

The Lord is teaching me better day to day. Thanks for the verse rookie.

1Pe 2:1
Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,

1Pe 2:2
as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,fn

1Pe 2:3
if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious

comeing unto him as a living stone ,,rected inded my men .but chosen and presiuos of god

can i submit ,,that the context ,,spoken of here is not the scripture being the pure milk of the word ,,,but it is the word of god who his jesus him self

hence is why verse 3 tells the lord can be tasted .,.and that if yo have tasted the lord ,,you should desire more of him ,,, i think we can miss the whole point of the passage ,,i would more liken this verse to mean draw near to god in prayer ,,,remember the days leding up to your baptism in his spirit ,or the day you were born againg ,,that manfest presence of jesus ,was so so real

then desire more of that that pure milk of his presence that sweet life giving spirit that comes from jesus bosom

havok20x wrote...

I can always walk more prudently.

The Scripture I posted was not meant to single you out as an individual...I posted it to all who might be on this thread...and yes we might all be blessed by being more prudent in the walk.

Ecc 5:1
Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil.

The verse above states that there is a conflict between God's religion and man's religion. God's religion requires that man prudently desire to hear from God on what his is to do. Man's religion is vanity, for the sacrifices he offers does not give him understanding in the ways he does evil in God's sight. Salvation or the freeing of the bonds of Satan can only be found in hearing and doing when God speaks. One must receive the love of the truth through walking with the Lord. There is no other way.

So do we view reading Scripture as a sacrifice or as a means to hear God?

brothagary wrote:

can i submit ,,that the context ,,spoken of here is not the scripture being the pure milk of the word ,,,but it is the word of god who his jesus him self

Heb 10:7
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come””
In the volume of the book it is written of Me””
To do Your will, O God.'”‰”fn

Yes I agree whole heartedly with you. In terms of the written Scriptures, Jesus says that the entire OT is a witness of HIs work in God's creation from the foundation of this world. And these Scriptures are given to us so that we might recognize how God is working in our own lives. And we know that the rhema of God is the word spoken to us through the Holy Spirit. And we know that the Holy Spirit gives to us what is of Christ...

According to the book of Hebrews, the earthly priest offered sacrifices which could not change a man's nature, but Christ, according to the order of Melchizedec also has something to offer...what is the nature of HIs offering?

i agree brother please dont think im downplaying the writtern word of god ,,not at all i just feel that verse is speaking about the person of christ his presesence

i think the nature of his offrering was his nature devinnature ,,and he offerd his righeousnes to be acounted to us the righeousness of god ,,but there much more in the offering

This Scripture is commentary for the second set of verses...

Phl 3:8
Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

Phl 3:9
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Phl 3:10
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,

Phl 3:11
if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Phl 3:12
Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

Phl 3:13
Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,

Phl 3:14
I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

....................................................

Ecc 5:18
Here is what I have seen: It is good and fitting for one to eat and drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labor in which he toils under the sun all the days of his life which God gives him; for it is his heritage.

Ecc 5:19
As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor””this is the gift of God.

Ecc 5:20
For he will not dwell unduly on the days of his life, because God keeps him busy with the joy of his heart.

These two men speak from the same source...the Holy Spirit. The upward call of God in Christ speaks of God giving man understanding and knowledge of His selected work for that man. And in that work. man will find a joy that satisfies. And that man will come to know and comprehend the love that God has for him. Those who approach the Scriptures with a humble heart, and seek to hear and learn will find the ancient path.

Jhn 8:12
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

Chapter divisions....ugh.

So I decided to read from chapter 1 to chapter 2. So here is the context:

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, because

"All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
But the word of the Lord endures forever.”

Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

Okay, so the word in this context seems to be thus: salvation attained through Jesus Christ only, not by works of the flesh. He's talking about the Gospel here.

Not necessarily the Scriptures (which must be utilized in any presenation of the Gospel) and not just Jesus (who is the One who saved us) and not just the Holy Spirit (by Whom we are regenerated) but probably all of it.

So wouldn't that mean the pure milk of the word in this context is referring to what Paul called the "simplicity that is in Christ" in 2 Cor 11?

When I think of "pure milk", I am thinking of babies drinking that which gives them life.

Paul was telling the Corinthians not to be swayed away from the simplicity found in Christ. This is in regards to salvation, but it is also in regards to our lives.

One of my favorite preachers said we can't treat salvation like a first-step and then we move on to greater stuff. There is nothing greater than the work of Jesus Christ for us on the cross, and everything that we do is in and through that. We were bought with precious blood, not silver and gold which can perish, not with corruptible seed, but incorruptible. BECAUSE of those things, we should lay aside the sin that so easily ensnares us, with our our fixed on Jesus.

The Gospel should be the motivation and driving force behind our growth--sanctification, holiness, knowledge of the Lord, etc.

havok20x wrote...

The Gospel should be the motivation and driving force behind our growth--sanctification, holiness, knowledge of the Lord, etc.

To be more precise, our High Priest healing and gifting through the Holy Spirit is the directing force in those who live by faith. The simplicity you speak of is that Christ alone is able to accomplish such work. No other doctrine or religion man has imagined can destroy the work of Satan in God's creation.

Right, rookie. Jesus Christ is the good news lol

Yes! In me and my flesh there is no good thing. Gal 6:14 ”Š”Š But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

havok20x wrote:
Paul was telling the Corinthians not to be swayed away from the simplicity found in Christ. This is in regards to salvation, but it is also in regards to our lives.

What do you mean by "simplicity found in Christ"? Is this thought focused on sending the individual to look to Christ for all the answers? Or do you mean that the individual is to remain "simple"?

I am talking about the Gospel.

The simplicity is this: God is holy, I am wicked, and I am condemened. Jesus Christ, through the shedding of His precious blood and through His resurrection came to redeem me. If I believe on Him, I will be saved.

Everything else outside of that is beyond the simplicity that is found in Christ.

The problem of adding stuff to the Gospel was infecting the Galatian church, the Colossian Church, the corinthian church, etc in various ways throughout the NT. We are to rest in Christ and Christ alone, not in secondary things.

havok20x writes:

The simplicity is this: God is holy, I am wicked, and I am condemened. Jesus Christ, through the shedding of His precious blood and through His resurrection came to redeem me. If I believe on Him, I will be saved.

How is the Lord healing you and gifting you...everyone in Scripture has a testimony that increases over time.

He's making me more in the likeness of Christ every day.

Sometimes it is 2 steps forward and 3 steps backwards, but slowly, He is fulfilling His promise to me to transform me.

havok20x

The Holy Spirit works in many ways to convey us out of the dark and into the light. The following Scripture speaks of just one of many precepts of His work...

Heb 12:6
For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.” [fn]

Heb 12:7
If [fn] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?

Heb 12:8
But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

Heb 12:9
Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?

Heb 12:10
For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness.

Heb 12:11
Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Heb 12:12
Therefore strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees,

Heb 12:13
and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.

In verse 13 the writer of Hebrews exhorts the individual to seek to "be healed." The work of the Holy Spirit at the direction of Jesus Christ seeks to heal what is lame. And this work of the Holy Spirit involves "chastening" at times.

You know Paul speaks of being sealed with the Holy Spirit...and in sermons we often hear an analogy to the ring that a man wears that he has been given authority and that all who see this man with the ring can know for certain that the king has given this man authority. The Holy Spirit's work is the seal for each individual. A man can know for certain that the Holy Spirit is at work. This is what Paul means when he teaches about being sealed with the Holy Spirit.

So in Scripture we are given countless testimonies of men who have been found righteous in God's eyes. Through the pure milk of the word, we too should recognize that we are sons of God.

Right,

If we are without discipline, then we are not His children.

There was one time that I had been praying and seeking the Lord and there was no answer. Weeks went by and I kept praying and no answer. It felt like everything was hitting the ceiling and never making it to the Lord. It was also coupled with heavy amounts of conviction. It wasn't mysterious--I had allowed myself to get caught up in some things that are not fitting for any believer. I was regarding iniquity in my heart and He did not hear me.

It got to the point where I really started examining myself. I thought perhaps, because of the grievousness of the offenses that I didn't know the Lord. Some of you might not like that, but that's where I was.

Finally, I was reading the very passage that you posted in Hebrews 12 out loud in sunday school class. I started bawling cause I realized I was being disciplined. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. The greater the silence, the more vehemently I sought the Lord. The more He did not answer the more I began to examine myself and allow the Lord to root out things that were in me that were sin.

havok20x wrote:

Finally, I was reading the very passage that you posted in Hebrews 12 out loud in sunday school class. I started bawling cause I realized I was being disciplined. It did exactly what it was supposed to do.

..........................................

According to your testimony, it seems that "the pure milk of the word" had it's way with you. We have this testimony from another...

Psa 119:28
My soul melts from heaviness;
Strengthen me according to Your word.

Psa 119:29
Remove from me the way of lying,
And grant me Your law graciously.

Psa 119:49
ZAYIN
Remember the word to Your servant,
Upon which You have caused me to hope.

Psa 119:50
This is my comfort in my affliction,
For Your word has given me life.

Psa 119:67
Before I was afflicted I went astray,
But now I keep Your word.

Psa 119:71
It is good for me that I have been afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.

Psa 119:72
The law of Your mouth is better to me
Than thousands of coins of gold and silver.

Psa 119:75
I know, O LORD, that Your judgments are right,
And that in faithfulness You have afflicted me.

This is something that is learned as we walk, it is not imputed at birth.

Those who drink of the pure milk of the word will come to understand this section of Scripture...

Psa 119:97

Oh, how I love Your law!
It is my meditation all the day.

Psa 119:98
You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies;
For they are ever with me.

Psa 119:99
I have more understanding than all my teachers,
For Your testimonies are my meditation.

Psa 119:100
I understand more than the ancients,
Because I keep Your precepts.

Psa 119:101
I have restrained my feet from every evil way,
That I may keep Your word.

Psa 119:102
I have not departed from Your judgments,
For You Yourself have taught me.

Psa 119:103
How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth!

Psa 119:104
Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way.

The writer of Psalm 119 states that God has taught him. We know that the Holy Spirit does not lie, so therefore the Holy Spirit taught this man and the words of Christ are "sweeter than honey" to his mouth.

Taste the milk of the word, see if you find it like the one above....

Psa 119:71
It is good for me that I have been afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.

I discovered that one of the most insidious kinds of afflictions is bad eyesight: looking at the other guy and how bad s/he is. Oh the misery this gives me. I can also be afflicted by too much self-absorption - thinking too much about my failings. In all this my eye is not on the Lord, who alone is the Victor, and who can work through us even in our "cracked" condition.

This thread may have started with a wee bit of eye trouble - but look here where it has gone: Tasting the sweet Word - unspoiled by obsessions over the "other guy" (which is often exactly what makes us envious, condemning, hypocritical, malicious... and miserable.)

Thanks, Rookie for the texts.
Diane

Hi Sis,

Eyes to see, and ears to hear...they must come through the work of the Lord in mercy and grace and truth.

God bless the Canadian. Our past winter brought me a lot closer to knowing I would not like to live in Canada. You people are to hardy for us southerners.

Jeff

Peter writes this concerning the truth, the word of God.

1Pe 1:22
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit [fn] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,

1Pe 1:23
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, [fn]

He points to the work that God has accomplished thus far in those whom Peter exhorts above. He encourages those whom he is writing to, to continue what they have already been doing...taste the pure milk of the word.

The word of God is powerful through the Spirit, not the flesh.

Psa 119:9
BETH
How can a young man cleanse his way?
By taking heed according to Your word.

I wonder how many times the Lord brought this verse to Peter? This is Peter's commentary on the above verse.

1Pe 1:22
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit [fn] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,

1Pe 1:23
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, [fn]

Blaine wrote;

"It wound be interesting to go through Psalm 119 and see those verses that reference `word` and insert `Jesus` who us the word. Should be a rich study."

I might add...try replacing the Anointed One, the Holy One, and the Holy One of Israel with the name Jesus. And then consider Paul's teaching...

1Co 10:1
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,

1Co 10:2
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

1Co 10:3
all ate the same spiritual food,

1Co 10:4
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
....
1Co 10:9
nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;

So no matter where in Scripture, Christ is there.

Psa 119:130
The entrance of Your words gives light;
It gives understanding to the simple.

What does Scripture teach about those who choose to remain "simple"?

Brother Blaine wrote:

"One who chooses to remain simple becomes wise in the testimonies of Jesus"

There is a difference in how Scripture teaches about "the simple."

Rom 16:17
Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.

Rom 16:18
For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus [fn] Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Here, the "simple" are deceived. Likewise...

Pro 1:20
Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.

Pro 1:21
She cries out in the chief concourses, [fn]
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:

Pro 1:22
"How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.

Pro 1:23
Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

The simple in these Scripture are meant to warn the individual, why?

I asked;

The simple in these Scripture are meant to warn the individual, why?

Here is one reason:

Eph 4:13
till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

Eph 4:14
that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

One who does not feed on the pure milk of the word is subject to being "tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine."

The simple who refuse to feed on the pure milk of the word are seen by God as being foolish...

Brother Blaine wrote;

"I think that is why the Psalmist said the testimony of the Word of the Lord is sure making wise the simple."

Yes, and Scripture also portrays the "simple" in a positive light.

Psa 116:1
I love the LORD, because He has heard
My voice and my supplications.

Psa 116:2
Because He has inclined His ear to me,
Therefore I will call upon Him as long as I live.

Psa 116:3
The pains of death surrounded me,
And the pangs of Sheol laid hold of me;
I found trouble and sorrow.

Psa 116:4
Then I called upon the name of the LORD:
"O LORD, I implore You, deliver my soul!”

Psa 116:5
Gracious is the LORD, and righteous;
Yes, our God is merciful.

Psa 116:6
The LORD preserves the simple;
I was brought low, and He saved me.

Psa 116:7
Return to your rest, O my soul,
For the LORD has dealt bountifully with you.

Psa 116:8
For You have delivered my soul from death,
My eyes from tears,
And my feet from falling.

Psa 116:9
I will walk before the LORD
In the land of the living.

In this section of Scripture, it is said that "The Lord preserves the simple." Within the context of this Scripture, we see a right response or heart of the believer. Instead of being tossed to fro from every wind of doctrine of men and searching for relief in man's doctrine, this believer goes right to the Lord for deliverance. And we find that the Lord is faithful.

So here, "simple" refers to cutting out all the noise, and going directly to God for mercy and grace.

Psa 119:130
The entrance of Your words gives light;
It gives understanding to the simple.

Christ always called out, he who has ears let him hear.

Psa 119:130
The entrance of Your words gives light;
It gives understanding to the simple.

Jas 1:22
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Jas 1:23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;

Jas 1:24
for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.

Jas 1:25
But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Psa 119:18
Open my eyes, that I may see
Wondrous things from Your law.

These two men are speaking of the same law, the "law of liberty".

Liberty from what?

Brother Blaine asks:

"Could it be liberty from sin?"

1Jo 3:8
He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

So the law of liberty frees us from being in bondage to the devil.

Brother Blaine asks:

"Is the spoken word the same as Him who is the Word?"

This will take some time to work out please be patient...

1Jo 2:12
I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.

1Jo 2:13
I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.

1Jo 2:14
I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.

Think about what John is saying here. First contemplate these three groups according to the process of time. In the process of time, if one hears what you posted in John 8:31-32, and is a doer of His word, one will begin to understand the verses I have posted above.

1Jo 2:12
I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.

1Jo 2:13
I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.

1Jo 2:14
I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.

In this section of Scripture three groups are specified: children, young men, and fathers.

What precept is John defining?

thats why i think peter is talking about the spirit of christ ,, when he calls it the pure milk of the word ,,,,,,johns saying to the young men it is this spirit that abides in you,,,the word of god ,,,peter is saying ,desire more of this that you may grow ,,be filled with the spirit paul would say ,,,john calls it the anointing that abides in you ,,,,rather then the written or spoken word ,,even tho it is the truth that spirit of the lord can fill us through the written and spoken word of truth ,,,i think it doesnt matter how much scripture and exortations you read and hear it will not replace the filling we get through prayer ,,,we all no that no revivle will come with just preacheing and reading the bible ,,,but is has been showen to come from just praying ,,evan roberts proved that ,,,so i think that we shoulkd not miss the point of peter to desire to be filled with christ ,with in the context of the desire of fevernt prayer ,,this will bring revivel ,,desire we recieve from read the scripture ,must translate to prayer ,,or we will not grow thereby ,,,,we all have enough scripture in our minds and hearts to have our bibles burned ,we can still pray and rember the scriptures that the holy spirit inspires in our hearts for the rest of our lives ,if we were locked up in confinment with no one but god

Brother Gary wrote:

"thats why i think peter is talking about the spirit of christ ,, when he calls it the pure milk of the word ,

,peter is saying ,desire more of this that you may grow ,,be filled with the spirit paul would say ,,,john calls it the anointing that abides in you ,,,,rather then the written or spoken word "

Peter warns of this at the end of his second epistle:

2Pe 3:14
Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;

2Pe 3:15
and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation””as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,

2Pe 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Peter speaks of an error that some make, who "twist" the meaning of Paul's epistles and that this twisting is an error which leads to destruction. Peter also says that these same people "twist" "the rest of Scriptures." Paul as Peter always uses the OT as commentary on what they are teaching. And in terms of 1 Peter:

1Pe 1:22
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spiritfn in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,

1Pe 1:23
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,fn

1Pe 1:24
because

"All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of manfn as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,

1Pe 1:25
But the word of the LORD endures forever.”fn
Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

1Pe 2:1
Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,

1Pe 2:2
as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,fn

1Pe 2:3
if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

1Pe 2:4
Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,

1Pe 2:5
you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

1Pe 2:6
Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

"Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”fn

1Pe 2:7
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,fn

"The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”fn

1Pe 2:8
and

"A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”fn
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

Peter uses OT Scripture before and after the verse which exhorts the believers to feed on the pure milk of the word. With that said, this is something too that I have come to understand....

There is a teaching that in this Scripture:

1 Peter 1:23
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever

that one is born again, of "incorruptible" seed, that this is referring to Christ in the believer. Here is the "twist". This teaching seems to indicate that the "word of God" becomes Christ in the believer. This teaching seems to parallel the Catholic teaching of Transubstantiation. That man can take something that is corruptible and transform it into something incorruptible through prayer.

This teaching finds it's roots in the epistles of Paul. Usually those who place all their attention on the Scriptures of Paul and seek to make all of Scripture void due to dispensational theology or systematic theology, make this error.

Brother Blain wrote:

"Thus it wound seem the Word of God abiding in the young men of 1John 2:14 is JESUS Himself."

Col 3:1
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.

Christ is sitting at the right hand of God, but whom did He send in His place?

John 14:16-20 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, (thus two comforters) one unto life the other to Truth::, that He may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: (The Holy Spirit the Son, both delegated by the Father, The Three in One God of all.)

I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit Teacher of the Christ that would be birthed in the believer from the Father and came Jesus Himself to His own to give them Life Eternal and they become sons of God. It takes a birthing to become a son.

1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word (Logos) of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word (Rhema) which by the gospel is preached unto you.

There us a difference in the living Word (logos) and the written word; (rhema).

The Living Word that is born again in us is the same as He who came to His own and they received Him not and to the whole world not receiving Him also.

Who makes it possible to receive Him?

John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Who is He that baptizeth with the Holy Spirit and gives new life to those that are His, by His birthing from the Father of His own Spirit in them that believe, making them sons of God?

Is He birthed in you, are you in Him and He in you, do you have new Life?

This is not a dispensational or religious body of Truth, the the Truth of the Living and written Word of God.

IN Christ: Phillip

Hi Brother Phillip

It has been a while...I hope things are well. You wrote:

"John 14:16-20 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, (thus two comforters) ...(The Holy Spirit the Son,

In the same section of Scripture Jesus says....

Jhn 14:2
"In My Father’s house are many mansions;fn if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.fn

Jhn 14:3
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Peter warns the believers...

2Pe 3:15
and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation””as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,

2Pe 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

He states that there will come those who are confused with Paul's teachings and that they have to "twist" "the rest of the Scriptures."

Brother Phillip, let the Scriptures speak for themselves...

Quote:

"""Christ is sitting at the right hand of God, but whom did He send in His place?"""

Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father, are we not seated with Him?

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Jhn 14:3
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Are we spiritually not already there?

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Christ came in Himself to us that we might be born again by the incorruptible Seed of the Father, thus making "He and the Father are One and He in us and we in Him are one.

I am doing well Jeff, hope and pray everything is well with you.

In Christ: Phillip

Phillip asked:

"Are we spiritually not already there?"

Yes for those who are His anointed...

Psa 84:1
To the Chief Musician. On an instrument of Gath.fn A Psalm of the sons of Korah.

How lovely is Your tabernacle,
O LORD of hosts!

Psa 84:2
My soul longs, yes, even faints
For the courts of the LORD;
My heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.

Psa 84:3
Even the sparrow has found a home,
And the swallow a nest for herself,
Where she may lay her young””
Even Your altars, O LORD of hosts,
My King and my God.

Psa 84:4
Blessed are those who dwell in Your house;
They will still be praising You. Selah

Psa 84:5
Blessed is the man whose strength is in You,
Whose heart is set on pilgrimage.

Psa 84:6
As they pass through the Valley of Baca,
They make it a spring;
The rain also covers it with pools.

Psa 84:7
They go from strength to strength;
Each one appears before God in Zion.fn

Psa 84:8
O LORD God of hosts, hear my prayer;
Give ear, O God of Jacob! Selah

Psa 84:9
O God, behold our shield,
And look upon the face of Your anointed.

Psa 84:10
For a day in Your courts is better than a thousand.
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
Than dwell in the tents of wickedness.

Psa 84:11
For the LORD God is a sun and shield;
The LORD will give grace and glory;
No good thing will He withhold
From those who walk uprightly.

Psa 84:12
O LORD of hosts,
Blessed is the man who trusts in You!

By the Holy Spirit men are given glimpses of His glory...

Phl 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Phl 2:13
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Phl 2:14
Do all things without complaining and disputing,

Phl 2:15
that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,

Phl 2:16
holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

Phillip asked:

"Are we spiritually not already there?"

Another man's thoughts on being seated in the heavens...

Psa 26:3
For Your lovingkindness is before my eyes,
And I have walked in Your truth.

Psa 26:6
I will wash my hands in innocence;
So I will go about Your altar, O LORD,

Psa 26:7
That I may proclaim with the voice of thanksgiving,
And tell of all Your wondrous works.

Psa 26:8
LORD, I have loved the habitation of Your house,
And the place where Your glory dwells.

So how is David able to say this?

I asked:

So how is David able to say this?

A Psalm of David.

Give unto the LORD, O you mighty ones,
Give unto the LORD glory and strength.

Psa 29:2
Give unto the LORD the glory due to His name;
Worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.

Psa 29:3
The voice of the LORD is over the waters;
The God of glory thunders;
The LORD is over many waters.

Psa 29:4
The voice of the LORD is powerful;
The voice of the LORD is full of majesty.

Psa 29:5
The voice of the LORD breaks the cedars,
Yes, the LORD splinters the cedars of Lebanon.

Psa 29:6
He makes them also skip like a calf,
Lebanon and Sirion like a young wild ox.

Psa 29:7
The voice of the LORD divides the flames of fire.

Psa 29:8
The voice of the LORD shakes the wilderness;
The LORD shakes the Wilderness of Kadesh.

Psa 29:9
The voice of the LORD makes the deer give birth,
And strips the forests bare;
And in His temple everyone says, "Glory!”

Psa 29:10
The LORD sat enthroned at the Flood,
And the LORD sits as King forever.

Psa 29:11
The LORD will give strength to His people;
The LORD will bless His people with peace

The voice of the Lord has raised him up.

Who is David's Lord?

Quote: """So how is David able to say this?"""

Because God has David exactly where He wants Him, David can go nowhere else that his Holy Faith may be increased.

Quote: """Who is David's Lord? """

The same as Adam, Moses, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The same Lord that was with David before he was born and after and even now.

But, different from purpose that the Lord Jesus that was in Mary's womb reconciling the whole world to His Father whom Jesus will turn all His to His Father that God may be all in all.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

"Because God has David exactly where He wants Him, David can go nowhere else that his Holy Faith may be increased."

Yes it is God who speaks and reveals to those who live by faith. And they receive the reward of His Righteousness.

Job 33:26
He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.

Jhn 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Jhn 1:13
who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Psa 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Psa 51:11
Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

Psa 51:12
Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.

How did David know he had God's Holy Spirit?

"How did David know he had God's Holy Spirit?"

Psa 27:8
When You said, "Seek My face,”
My heart said to You, "Your face, LORD, I will seek.”

Psa 27:9
Do not hide Your face from me;
Do not turn Your servant away in anger;
You have been my help;
Do not leave me nor forsake me,
O God of my salvation

God said to David..."Seek My face,"

Psa 17:4
Concerning the works of men,
By the word of Your lips,
I have kept away from the paths of the destroyer.

David testified..."By the word of Your lips,"

And what was the result of hearing God's voice?

And what was the result of hearing God's voice?

Psa 17:4
Concerning the works of men,
By the word of Your lips,
I have kept away from the paths of the destroyer.

David testifies that the words heard from God's lips gave him the ability to stay away from the paths of Satan.

Is this a one time event or is this a continuous process?

Quote: """How did David know he had God's Holy Spirit?"""

Psalms 51:6 Lo, truth Thou hast desired in the inward parts, And in the hidden part Wisdom Thou causest me to know.

This will be done, If David had the Holy Spirit with him, he would know truth and wisdom, thus knowing God's Holy Spirit was with him, or he would not have ask for the Holy Spirit not to be taken from him. Thus David knew the Holy Spirit by His operations with him and The Holy Spirits power over him.

We know the Spirit has visited us, when we have felt all alive- bright, cheerful, and intense. Then our whole heart has run in the ways of God's commands, and we have rejoiced in His name. Thus have we known the Holy Spirit by his operations within us.

Words cannot reveal a person intimately, the person has to be present for a full revelation, thus the Holy Spirit must be present and reveal Himself for the truth and personal intercourse God wants and requires by faith the unfathomable riches He has for us.

So, Quote: """How did David know he had God's Holy Spirit?"""

By the Person of the Holy Spirit Himself, as He sees fit.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

"Words cannot reveal a person intimately the person has to be present for a full revelation, thus the Holy Spirit must be present and reveal Himself for the truth and personal intercourse God wants and requires by faith the unfathomable riches He has for us."

Amen, I agree totally.

I asked:

"David testifies that the words heard from God's lips gave him the ability to stay away from the paths of Satan.

Is this a one time event or is this a continuous process?"

Here is another example in Scripture which speaks of paths and the process of time....

Jos 1:3
"Every place that the sole of your foot will tread upon I have given you, as I said to Moses.

....

Jos 1:5
"No man shall be able to stand before you all the days of your life; as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you nor forsake you.

Jos 1:6
"Be strong and of good courage, for to this people you shall divide as an inheritance the land which I swore to their fathers to give them.

Jos 1:7
"Only be strong and very courageous, that you may observe to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may prosper wherever you go.

"Do not turn from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may prosper wherever you go" God promises to be with Joshua every moment of his life, as long as Joshua follows the Lord's instructions.

How does this precept tie in with the Lord "knowing" David and Joshua?

Being "known" by the Lord requires....

Amo 3:3
Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?

Throughout Scripture we are told about "paths". If one walks along a path where the Lord is leading, then in the process of time,(that is time as we experience) we should then understand how we are known by the Lord.

Rev 6:9
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

These saints in Scripture were "slain for the word of God". It is not just because they called themselves Christians but because the "word of God" created a "testimony" which each martyr held. This "testimony" is the result of walking down the paths revealed by "the word of God."

When Jesus said to those, "Get away from me I never knew you" what reason does He give those whom He condemned?

I asked:

"When Jesus said to those, "I never knew you; depart from Me," what reason does He give those whom He condemned?"

Mat 7:23
"And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So it is those who "practice lawlessness!"

We often stop at this thought, but Jesus continues on about the difference between those who are "known" by Jesus and those who "practice lawlessness."

Mat 7:24
"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:

Mat 7:25
"and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

Mat 7:26
"But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:

Mat 7:27
"and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

Both groups hear His words, what is required of all who hear the "word of God"?

Both groups hear His words, what is required of all who hear the "word of God"?

Mat 7:24
"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:

One builds a house on the rock, if one does what he hears. Is this teaching of Jesus, a one time event or does it suggest a process of time?

Yes Blaine,

In the last 20 posts or so it has been important to establish first the impact that the Holy Spirit has on the individual. I used David as an example. Then it has been equally important to bring out the precept of the work of the Holy Spirit in man over the process of time. This is all in view of again...

1Jo 2:12
I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.

1Jo 2:13
I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.

1Jo 2:14
I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.

So it is that when a man builds his house upon the rock, the house will not fall when the storms come.

Brother Blaine wrote:

"Actually it seems to be a relationship with the indwelling Christ living in us. "

Rom 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

1Pe 1:11
searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

It has always been the "Spirit of Christ".

2Jo 1:9
Whoever transgresses [fn] and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost work to teach...

1Jo 2:27
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will [fn] abide in Him.

The Spirit does not speak of it's own but speaks what is of Christ.

This is how the pure milk of the word works...

1Pe 1:11
searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Psa 16:1
A Michtam of David.

Preserve me, O God, for in You I put my trust.

Psa 16:2
O my soul, you have said to the LORD,
"You are my Lord,
My goodness is nothing apart from You.”

Psa 16:3
As for the saints who are on the earth,
"They are the excellent ones, in whom is all my delight.”

Psa 16:4
Their sorrows shall be multiplied who hasten after another god;
Their drink offerings of blood I will not offer,
Nor take up their names on my lips.

Psa 16:5
O LORD, You are the portion of my inheritance and my cup;
You maintain my lot.

Psa 16:6
The lines have fallen to me in pleasant places;
Yes, I have a good inheritance.

Psa 16:7
I will bless the LORD who has given me counsel;
My heart also instructs me in the night seasons.

Psa 16:8
I have set the LORD always before me;
Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved.

Psa 16:9
Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices;
My flesh also will rest in hope.

Psa 16:10
For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

Psa 16:11
You will show me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

The Spirit of Christ was in David when he wrote this Psalm. The content of this Psalm is a prayer of Jesus.

The question is do we accept the "pure milk of the word" or do we shrink back for fear of stepping away from the traditions of men?

This is how the pure milk of the word works....

1Pe 1:11
searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Jesus testifies.....

Heb 10:5
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

"Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.

Heb 10:6
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.

Heb 10:7
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come””
In the volume of the book it is written of Me””
To do Your will, O God.’”‰”fn

.....................................................................................................................
Note...."In the volume of the book it is written of Me to do Your will, O God."
......................................................................................................................

Psa 16:1
A Michtam of David.

Preserve me, O God, for in You I put my trust.

Psa 16:2
O my soul, you have said to the LORD,
"You are my Lord,
My goodness is nothing apart from You.”

Psa 16:3
As for the saints who are on the earth,
"They are the excellent ones, in whom is all my delight.”

Psa 16:4
Their sorrows shall be multiplied who hasten after another god;
Their drink offerings of blood I will not offer,
Nor take up their names on my lips.

Psa 16:5
O LORD, You are the portion of my inheritance and my cup;
You maintain my lot.

Psa 16:6
The lines have fallen to me in pleasant places;
Yes, I have a good inheritance.

Psa 16:7
I will bless the LORD who has given me counsel;
My heart also instructs me in the night seasons.

Psa 16:8
I have set the LORD always before me;
Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved.

Psa 16:9
Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices;
My flesh also will rest in hope.

Psa 16:10
For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

Psa 16:11
You will show me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

The Spirit of Jesus was in David when Psalm 16 was written as testifying of the work of Jesus as He did the will of the Father.

How does the pure milk of the word impact the traditions of men?

1Pe 1:11
searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

The Spirit of Christ was in David when David wrote this Psalm...

Psa 22:1
To the Chief Musician. Set to "The Deer of the Dawn.”fn A Psalm of David.

My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?

Psa 22:2
O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.

Psa 22:3
But You are holy,
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.

Psa 22:4
Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them.

Psa 22:5
They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.

Psa 22:6
But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people.

Psa 22:7
All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

Psa 22:8
"He trustedfn in the LORD, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”

Psa 22:9
But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.

Psa 22:10
I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother’s womb
You have been My God.

Psa 22:11
Be not far from Me,
For trouble is near;
For there is none to help.

Psa 22:12
Many bulls have surrounded Me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me.

Psa 22:13
They gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.

Psa 22:14
I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.

Psa 22:15
My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.

Psa 22:16
For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They piercedfn My hands and My feet;

Psa 22:17
I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.

Psa 22:18
They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.

Psa 22:19
But You, O LORD, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!

Psa 22:20
Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.

Psa 22:21
Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!

You have answered Me.

Psa 22:22
I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.

Psa 22:23
You who fear the LORD, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!

Psa 22:24
For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.

Psa 22:25
My praise shall be of You in the great assembly;
I will pay My vows before those who fear Him.

Psa 22:26
The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the LORD.
Let your heart live forever!

Psa 22:27
All the ends of the world
Shall remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations
Shall worship before You.fn

Psa 22:28
For the kingdom is the LORD’s,
And He rules over the nations.

Psa 22:29
All the prosperous of the earth
Shall eat and worship;
All those who go down to the dust
Shall bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep himself alive.

Psa 22:30
A posterity shall serve Him.
It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation,

Psa 22:31
They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born,
That He has done this.

Consider what Jesus meant by this statement....

Heb 10:7
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come””
In the volume of the book it is written of Me””
To do Your will, O God.’”‰”fn

Do you see the heart of Jesus in these Psalms of prayer?

1Pe 1:11
searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

The Spirit of Christ was in David when David wrote this Psalm...

Psa 40:1
To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.

I waited patiently for the LORD;
And He inclined to me,
And heard my cry.

Psa 40:2
He also brought me up out of a horrible pit,
Out of the miry clay,
And set my feet upon a rock,
And established my steps.

Psa 40:3
He has put a new song in my mouth””
Praise to our God;
Many will see it and fear,
And will trust in the LORD.

Psa 40:4
Blessed is that man who makes the LORD his trust,
And does not respect the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Psa 40:5
Many, O LORD my God, are Your wonderful works
Which You have done;
And Your thoughts toward us
Cannot be recounted to You in order;
If I would declare and speak of them,
They are more than can be numbered.

Psa 40:6
Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.

Psa 40:7
Then I said, "Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.

Psa 40:8
I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Psa 40:9
I have proclaimed the good news of righteousness
In the great assembly;
Indeed, I do not restrain my lips,
O LORD, You Yourself know.

Psa 40:10
I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart;
I have declared Your faithfulness and Your salvation;
I have not concealed Your lovingkindness and Your truth
From the great assembly.

Psa 40:11
Do not withhold Your tender mercies from me, O LORD;
Let Your lovingkindness and Your truth continually preserve me.

Psa 40:12
For innumerable evils have surrounded me;
My iniquities have overtaken me, so that I am not able to look up;
They are more than the hairs of my head;
Therefore my heart fails me.

Psa 40:13
Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me;
O LORD, make haste to help me!

Psa 40:14
Let them be ashamed and brought to mutual confusion
Who seek to destroy my life;
Let them be driven backward and brought to dishonor
Who wish me evil.

Psa 40:15
Let them be confounded because of their shame,
Who say to me, "Aha, aha!”

Psa 40:16
Let all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You;
Let such as love Your salvation say continually,
"The LORD be magnified!”

Psa 40:17
But I am poor and needy;
Yet the LORD thinks upon me.
You are my help and my deliverer;
Do not delay, O my God.

Jesus under the Law given to Moses on Mount Sinai says this...

Psa 40:6
Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.

What does David and Jesus mean by what is said above?

Psa 40:6
Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.

You see, we love Him because He first loved us. Sacrifice and offerings were never desired by God...because the act of sacrifice and offering is evidence of disobedience. But it is of God who opens the ear so that faith comes by hearing. And it is God who speaks to man...

Psa 40:7
Then I said, "Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.

Psa 40:8
I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Faith that saves one is a faith that does what the Holy Spirit speaks. As Jesus testifies,"I delight to do Your will, O my God."

We love Him because He first loves us. This is "the Life" that Jesus demonstrated to the world.

Jesus prays to the Father...

Psa 40:6
Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.

Jesus testifies that the Father has "opened" His ears.

What does this mean, "My ears You have opened"?

Bro.rookie,

You said,"Faith that saves one is a faith that does what The Holy Spirit speaks..."

And ," We love Him because He first loved us. This is "The Life " that Jesus demonstrated to the world." .....yes He did,..and not only to us but He demonstrated His love for His Father.

That faith was demonstrated in Abraham,...hearing from God and obeying.
HE Followed GOD.(no mater how hard a thing God requested)

That faith / Life was demonstrated in Jesus,...He had ears for His Father,
God,and obeyed,...

Is this the demonstration of " The Faith" that we must Follow,if we be
Followers of Jesus?
In other words,is hearing from The Lord and obeying,...is this true faith ?

Rookie,you also asked,'What does it mean "my ears have been opened " ?

It means that God has opened our ears,(our understanding) that we can hear in the Spirit,...revealed things from Him,Who is Spirit.

Jesus said, " The Words that I speak unto you,They are Spirit,and They are Life." They are Spirit,so they must be Spiritually decerned ,so we need
to HEAR through the Spirit.( ears to hear )

Thank you rookie,your labor here is remarkable,
elizabeth

Sister wrote:

"That faith was demonstrated in Abraham,...hearing from God and obeying.
HE Followed GOD.(no mater how hard a thing God requested)

That faith / Life was demonstrated in Jesus,...He had ears for His Father,
God,and obeyed,..."

The following verses are commentary on your thoughts above...

Jesus states that there are two fathers...

Jhn 8:38
"I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen withfn your father.”

Jesus then distinguishes the difference between the two fathers...

Jhn 8:39
They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham.

Jhn 8:40
"But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.

Jhn 8:41
"You do the deeds of your father.” Then they said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father””God.”

Jhn 8:42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.

The faith demonstrated by Abraham finds it's source in hearing the Father. And the fruit of receiving that faith, one will love the Father and the Son. This man will have a testimony in like nature of that of Abraham or Job.

Job 33:24
Then He is gracious to him, and says,
‘Deliver him from going down to the Pit;
I have found a ransom’;

Job 33:25
His flesh shall be young like a child’s,
He shall return to the days of his youth.

Job 33:26
He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.

Whose righteousness is restored to man?

Dan.9:11,...Daniel says," O Lord,righteousness be belondeth unto thee,"....

So, righteousness belongs to The Lord.He wants to work His righteousness in us,through the Work of The Holy Spirit.

Even Jesus said," It isThe Father that does the work " in Him.

elizabeth

Bro. Bear,

The Scripture you gave,
Jn.6:63,......"the Words that I speak unto you,They are Spirit, and they are Life,"....

So if we are going to have Life,...then wouldn't we have to listen / heed to every Word that comes out of Jesus' mouth ?

Jesus told Satan,when He came up out of the wilderness,when Satan
was deceived enough to think he could deceive The Lord,because Jesus
had fasted 40 days,and tried to tempt Jesus with earthly sustaining food,
Jesus spoke Spiritual Words , God' Words,..Man shall not Live,...
( Or have Life) by bread alone,but by EVERY Word that precedes out of the mouth of God...

So Jesus came,and gave us EVERY Word that His Father gave Him to say.
.....That proceeded out of the mouth of God.

He is AWH inspiring !! ( probably don't have AWH spelled right )

And wouldn't you say the connection between Spirit and The Word,is
The quickening,..LIFE that is in that Word ?

God is Spirit / Word,...He Who speaks,and is above every voice,..Breath,..
THE LORD HE IS GOD,...THE LORD,HE IS GOD.

maybe I have said too much ?..?sometime I get carried away,communing about Him.

As we all grow up unto Him,
Elizabeth

Brother Blaine wrote:

"What is the connection between the Spirit and the word?"

This is a personal testimony which speaks to your question.

The first three years as a new believer, I attended a church that viewed themselves a conservative fundamentalists. During that time as I read Scripture, more and more questions arose which the elders could not give an answer which satisfied my yearning to know. At the same time, a group of JW elders battered me relentlessly on their doctrine. There came a point where I almost went to a JW service. I rationed in my own mind, at least these men had a passion for discussing the Scriptures.

I was at work, and after another JW bashing, I cried out to God and asked is the doctrine of the Trinity true?

In the stillness of that moment, God replied, "yes the Trinity is true."

Shortly thereafter, I attended another bible study at a different church. And during the study I stood up and said something to the effect, why do we bother reading the OT, all we need is the NT. An old man stood up after me and said, "I have learned to live in the OT because that is where the mysteries of God are revealed."

Over the course of the next three years or so, I began to see Jesus throughout the OT. And when one feeds on the pure milk of the word, one will come to the same understanding. So God provided commentary in the OT to confirm that the doctrine of the Trinity is true.

But most do not really see the Light that is given to every man that enters the world because most are fearful of denying the traditions taught by men. Only the pure milk of the word can overcome that fear.

Brother Blaine wrote:

"What is the connection between the Spirit and the word?"

Psa 119:2
Blessed are those who keep His testimonies,
Who seek Him with the whole heart!

Psa 119:3
They also do no iniquity;
They walk in His ways.

Psa 119:4
You have commanded us
To keep Your precepts diligently.

Psa 119:5
Oh, that my ways were directed
To keep Your statutes!

Psa 119:6
Then I would not be ashamed,
When I look into all Your commandments.

Psa 119:7
I will praise You with uprightness of heart,
When I learn Your righteous judgments.

In the above Scripture we see that those who approach the word of God with a desire like the man above will be blessed. And that those who "learn Your righteous judgments" will have an upright heart of praise. You see it is a heart condition which the word of God works to soften and the ears made to be sensitive to His leading.

Do we cry out of understanding? Do we struggle to understand His word? Does our old man wrestle with the word of God like Jacob?

Or are we satisfied with the words of mere men?