Deception / Deceived

I have been giving some considerable thought on this verse and subject
in Rev.12:9,..."And the great dragon was cast out,that old serpent,called
the Devil and Satan,who 'DECEIVETH THE WHOLE WORLD' ; "

My thoughts were and question to you is:..If he deceiveth the whole world,then WHO is,or can be,exempt or excluded ?

We know that the Word where Jesus is speaking,and one is calling Him Lord,Lord,...We look at those scriptures, and see that deception can be with one all the way until one stands before The Lord.

What is your thoughts ?

elizabeth

Thank you Noah for your thoughts.

Yes Bro.Bear,
I do believe,that is the only way that will keep us from being deceived.

elizabeth

Yes, I know this is very deep,but sincere thinking..But please bear with me,
..I do believe it is very important.

What really prompted this subject,was the thought about unforgivness...
Being 'deceived' in one's heart.and,...could that be just one of the things Satan could deceive us in. And what benefit could it be to him ?

Never willing to forgive....i have been there.It is a hard thing,in our carnal /
Fleshly way,And to ever see that WE MUST ! We may just go along through life,and not think how very dire it is,until by the mercies of God,He shows us,...we see it in His Word, and cry out ,and say Lord ! 'I cannot do
this, and Your Word says I must,so please help me'

But because the Word says that our hearts are deceitful, I believe The Lord wants us to look deep within our hearts,that are so easy to be deceived,and judge ourselves so we do not have to be judged.

What will happen if we do not forgive?
Is it detrimental to truly forgive ?
Can we be deceived in our heart ?

If Satan deceiveth the whole world,...How many things can we be deceived in. .?..And will there be an end consequences if we do not plead / ask for
The Lord'help in showing us and help in doing something about it ?

And can Satan even 'deceive' us into thinking that we have truly ended
Any deception that may be in our heart,...like forgiveness, complete bondage broken ?

I do hope this makes sense to you.
Elizabeth

two fundamantel truths have allways hepled me forgive people and sinnners in particular ,,,that christ should not have saved me and forgiven me ,so the least i can do is forvive others like he for gave me ,,,and that the person who hurt me ,more then likely will suffer in hell ,,this induces compassion in me ,,and also cause me to pray and bless those who may have hurt me

The answer to your question is found in the following verse...
2Th 2:9
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10
and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Those who do "not receive the love of the truth" will be deceived. Only those who have overcome Satan through the growth in the Word of God will be enabled to discern between good and evil.

So then what does it mean to "receive the love of the truth" ?

Anyone who is truly born again must come to realize that prior to conversion they were living in some form of deception. And anyone who has been born again for any length of time must realize that deception is in constant war with one's soul.

When I say it is very easy to be deceived, I am looking in the mirror.

"Search me and know me, O God, and see of there be any wicked way within me!" This is not an unbeliever's prayer, but the cry of a man who has come through pain to realize just how near and how destructive deception is.

Elibeth is so right about unforgiveness, one of the widest open doors to deception there is. (Lust for sex, money, and prestige are pretty wide doors as well...)

Deception and pride are hand in glove, whereas forgiveness and gratefulness will lead to truth.

I see truth as two things. The reality of what actually is, and the person of Jesus Christ. The first is difficult, in that my perceptions may not be accurate. But when Christ is inside, I have actual truth within, and the details outside will fall into place.

Ongoing battle! Even today, I pray that I may be led to truth, better truth, more of Him who is truth.

Elizabeth writes:

What will happen if we do not forgive?
Is it detrimental to truly forgive ?
Can we be deceived in our heart ?

This question is not for you sis alone but for those who contemplate this thread,

How does this thought relate to "receive the love of the truth"?

Blaine writes;

"Rookie if we love the truth, rather Him who us the Truth, then we should have a forgiving heart toward others."

Yes one expects that this is the outcome for one who loves the truth. Yet, Scripture teaches us that there is a work that God does in each individual so that they will believe in His Son Jesus Christ and that the individual can know with certainty that the Spirit of God is giving that individual a love for the truth.

2Th 2:10
and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

2Th 2:12
that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2Th 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Paul warns of a deception which men will perish because "they did not receive the love of the truth..."

This is a spiritual precept. Where in Scripture do we find testimony of how God through the "sanctification by the Spirit" brought the individual to love the truth that is from God?

Rookie,

You asked,'So then what does it mean to " receive the love of the truth"?

I believe it is when the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts,..It gives
Us SUCH a love for His Word / Truth,...we just hunger and thirst for it.
And that love,Who is God / Love / Word /Spirit /causes us to love His Word,
And also to love others.

I remember long ago when The Lord was working in me,when at the first,I suddenly looked around,and and could not think of anyone that I did not love.

So,It is He who gives us the love of the Truth / Word
We can open our hearts and gladly receive The love of The Truth / His Word,spoken to us or us reading it,..meditating on It / Him,....or we can reject it.

And this 'Getting to a know Him,..to know Him,..to have the mind of Christ, learn His judgments in matters..(relationship) will help / or keep us safe from the many forms of deception.

Did Satan not even try to deceive Jesus,using Scripture,when He came up out of the wilderness ?. ...But Jesus could not be deceived.His eyes were single,...Only on His Father God.

Thank you Rookie,...I enjoy the communion in The Lord.

elizabeth

Sidewalk,
Thank you,..I so appreciated your well thought- out ,,,wisdom on this so important subject.

Because if we be deceived until we stand before The Lord,How will He judge in the mater ?Yes it is a constant battle.and yes,I believe it is dire.

Now I am thinking about The Word where it says to " Keep ourselves in the love of God"

Bless you,
elizabeth

Bro Gary ,
Thank you...appreciate your thoughts.
elizabeth

your very welcome elizabeth

ya the truth will set you free ,,in more ways then one

In answer to the original question about satan deceiving the whole world speaks ONLY of those who are IN and OF the world. The church, Christians, the Body of Christ are NOT in or of the world, they are the "called out Ones". We as obedient faithful believers are in the world as Jesus says, but we are not of this world.

I would encourage you to read Jesus' prayer for His church in ALL of John 17 not just the few verses quoted below.

John 17:11-16 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (13) And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. (14) I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. (15) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. (16) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Elizebeth wrote:

And also to love others.

I remember long ago when The Lord was working in me,when at the first,I suddenly looked around,and and could not think of anyone that I did not love.

............................

God has done that for me for certain individuals while others, God has used to show me what is not right in my own heart.

dfella wrote:

In answer to the original question about satan deceiving the whole world speaks ONLY of those who are IN and OF the world.

............................

Yes this is true for those who have received the covenant from the Lord. But what of those who are being called and not yet chosen?

Heb 8:3
For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer.

What is the nature of the offering of our High Priest according to Scripture?

Rookie wrote:

Yes this is true for those who have received the covenant from the Lord. But what of those who are being called and not yet chosen?

Rookie:

Great question and thought, I have been pondering and studying and see that the scriptures speak of those whom are called and chosen and yet they are not the chosen elect.

If one is simply called and not chosen (meaning the elect) will be deceived and will fall away. In John 17, I believe Jesus is praying for those who are called, chosen(Elect), and faithful.

The Greek word for the Chosen(Elect) is eklektos and is used 23 times in the NT. 16 times it is translated elect, and 7 times chosen.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

There is another word for chosen used 22 times eklegomai and this appears not to refer to the elect as in the case of Judas.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

While Judas was called, chosen of God, he was not FAITHFUL.

There is a lot about the subject of those who are called and elect. If we are His elect we are justified,sanctified, and glorified and will NOT be deceived. We have a responsibility to make our calling and election sure and if we are faithful, obedient, and love God and His commandments we cannot fail and we are His elect.

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Great questions from Elizabeth and yourself, I have enjoyed my study as a result.

dfella wrote:

"If one is simply called and not chosen (meaning the elect) will be deceived and will fall away."
........................................

I agree with everything you posted and have highlighted this thought above...

As Cain was the first born of Adam to be deceived by Satan, so are those who Jesus teaches of in the parable of the sower...

Mar 4:13
And He said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?

Mar 4:14
"The sower sows the word.

Mar 4:15
"And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Mar 4:16
"These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

Mar 4:17
"and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble.

Mar 4:18
"Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word,

Mar 4:19
"and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Mar 4:20
"But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

So would you say that only the last group are those who have been "chosen" ?

I asked: What is the nature of the offering of our High Priest...?

......................................................

Heb 8:3
For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer.

Heb 8:4
For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law;

Heb 8:5
who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, "See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”fn

The above Scripture differentiates between earthly priest's gifts and our High Priest gift. So then what is the gift of Christ our High Priest?

Heb 8:10
"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Heb 8:11
"None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

Heb 8:12
"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deedsfn I will remember no more.”fn

Pretaining to this thread, only those who "receive the love of the truth" will not be deceived. So the gift to those who are being saved is...

Christ gift to those who hear, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts;

How does this gift coorespond to the parable of the sower of seed?

I wrote:

Christ gift to those who hear, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts;

How does this gift correspond to the parable of the sower of seed?

...................................

As I go through this please keep in mind that this all is about receiving "love of the truth" which prevents one from being deceived by Satan in the end times....

Mar 4:20
"But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

This group's distinction is the "good ground" and these people both "hear the word" and "accept it".

Likewise...

Mat 13:23
"But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

This group "hears word" and "understands it."

Likewise...

Luk 8:15
"But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Here we have again, "hear the word" with a "noble" and good"
heart, and bear fruit "with patience."

Our High Priest's gift is to convey knowledge to the mind, and write His law on our hearts. Those to whom the sower plants His word must first "hear" and then "accept it", "understand it" receive it with a "noble and good heart" and "keep it and bear fruit with patience."

Where in Scripture do we find commentary on this work? And how is this process about "receiving the love of the truth?"

Also...what does it mean to "accept it" referring to what one hears?

Blaine wrote:

"In Romans 10:17 we read that faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of Christ."

Yes...Scripture is the pure commentary on Scripture.

Psa 119:49
ZAYIN
Remember the word to Your servant,
Upon which You have caused me to hope.

The above Scripture is commentary on the Scripture below....

Rom 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The above Scripture is commentary on the Scripture below...

Luk 8:15
"But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

For the individual, the experience of bearing fruit, becomes the source of what we hope for. This hope is the substance which creates the love for the truth that is learned in the process of time from the Word of God.

Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The only way that I have seen in Scripture to overcome the deception of Satan is defind in the above verse.

How do "The thoughts and intents of the heart" impact our love for the truth?

Forgiveness and loving the truth, not being deceived...I suspect one could have a long thread on this issue.

I have experienced it when one confronts another of sin they will counter your concern that you did not forgive them! They may or may not acknowledge their act but the fact that you remind them of their sin (which is an ongoing situation) means you did not forgive them - so they say. And they will declare you are being judgmental. (Are you not judging me by saying I am judgmental? Had to admit this is true..)

Seems to me this is one area where a person can get deceived is by the intimidation dished out to you by sinful folks who work to defend their sin[s]. They say you are being judgmental and that you did not forgive. It can silence your vocal opposition to sin in a hurry because of the anger you are sure to encounter. Once we are silenced we are opening ourselves to deception by degrees, are we not?

ginnyrose wrote:

"It can silence your vocal opposition to sin in a hurry because of the anger you are sure to encounter. Once we are silenced we are opening ourselves to deception by degrees, are we not?"

I have experienced this as you have. And I have shrunk back not wanting strife or adversity. However, I have now begun to look at this situation more in terms of what the Scripture call, trials and tribulations. These the believer will surely experince. And one has to look to God for "advice".

God has also shown me how in my own heart concerning the precept of justice. My understanding and use of "justice" has caused many unloving issues to rise to my attention that are causing me to sin against the Lord and fellow man.

Justice based on our own understanding creates a condemning spirit within us. I have much to learn of justice, and the Scripture gives us many examples to contemplate.

Blaine wrote:

"So it is God who examines us by His Word."

Yes bro, exactly. So then, we are given this exhortation...

Heb 5:9
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Heb 5:10
called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,”

Heb 5:11
of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

Heb 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Heb 5:13
For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

Heb 5:14
But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

So the gift given by our High Priest, requires that we "by reason of use have" our "senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

You see when man ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he was deceived by Satan. Christ's work is to remove that deception. We can only see what is good and evil if we allow the Word of God to have His way with us.

Ecc 5:1
Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil.

In other words...be still and hear so that you can recognize the evil that ensnares you.

LIGHT MORE LIGHT.

Thy Word is Light.

Is ' deception' darkness?

Do we NEED more Light,to shine upon this darkness?

Eyes to see?

Ears to hear from Him ?

God bless,

I really appreciate you and hope to elaborate soon,..

elizabeth

Dear Brenda ( krautfrau)

Thanks for sharing and I appreciate your thoughts on this subject too.

(You said)' It is sometimes possible to think we have forgiven someone,but have not done it completely '......

That is very true,...we can be deceived,..that is what happened to me.
I had ask forgiveness, to some that had wronged me.not for what they had done to me,but for my overflowing,and bitterness,...but there is something
inside that will not always let go,but will cling to ' just a little' unforgiveness.

But things started happening to me physically,...and I started trying to see through the eyes of The Lord,what was going on.so The Lord helped me to see and truly forgive,...and OH WHAT A SETING FREE ! If one only knew the deception and the heavy bondage,and to Exsperiene broken bondage.
The Lord,setting us truly free.

I have found,that even when we may not have done anyone anything wrong,that has wronged us ,...We can still be wrong,in just our attitude,..
bitterness and our overflow of words / strife.

I believe The Lord,has come into us ,through The Holy Spirit,to work His judgement in us,......how He see's things ,...look through His eyes ,..so we can rightfully judge ourselves as He would judge us. ( remove all deception)To not judge always in our behalf.

* And you said, and it is so true,...'None can stand against the deceptions of satan without a constant walk in the light.'

Blessings,
elizabeth

defella,
You and rookie,have opened up some good thoughts for study on
Called...chosen,...elect....
Very interesting ! Thank you

And in thinking of deception,with so many denominations,..different
religious groups,..thinking of Paul,in the Jews religion, how right he thought he was, until The Lord opened his eyes to the Truth....( Deceived ?)
Is that why we are to SEEK The Kingdom of God FIRST, ....Not seek man
FIRST ?

Blessings,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth wrote:

"I believe The Lord,has come into us ,through The Holy Spirit,to work His judgement in us,......how He see's things ,...look through His eyes ,..so we can rightfully judge ourselves as He would judge us. ( remove all deception)To not judge always in our behalf. "

Jer 33:6
‘Behold, I will bring it health and healing; I will heal them and reveal to them the abundance of peace and truth.

Abundance of peace and truth comes to those whom the Lord heals. As the Lord brings understanding to the individual of the way He heals the wounds of that individual, one begins to know this verse in greater and greater depth.

1Jo 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us.

And our love for Him, through the abundance of peace and truth that He gives us, is the way we "receive the love of the truth" which will keep us from deception.

Rookie wrote:

Mar 4:20
"But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

Sorry for the late reply, in answer to your question, I would agree that it is this last group that are chosen and see the correlation between those who hear the word because they are called, those who accept it because they are chosen, and those who bear fruit because they are faithful.

I also see and believe that those who "hear" will react to what they hear with corresponding action. Meaning he who hears Gods word will "do" and "keep" what he has heard through an obedient heart because he loveth truth.

When a parent gives a child a command and the child disobeys the command, he never "heard" the command, not with his ears but with his heart. If the child loves his parents he will desire to obey the command and knows that if he disobeys there will be consequences, for the fear of the Lord is the beginning of true wisdom. If one truly hears he will respond to what he hears from the heart.

The church is filled with people who hear the word over and over, however, their spiritual lives are a mess because they are not being faithful, obedient, and simply do not love what they have heard neither do they "believe".

Deuteronomy 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:.....Read through vs 14 Gods blessings for obedience.

Deuteronomy 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:.....Read through vs. 68 the curses that come upon those who disobey

Gods great invitation and warning to all.

Isaiah 1:18-20 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (19) If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: (20) But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Elizabeth, Yes without question, as believers who have heard the call of God are to seek the Kingdom of God first and as a matter of fact we are not meant to ever seek after men. While it is true that we do need one another, a true man of God will point others to Christ and His kingdom and not himself.

Blessings,
Brother Dave

Brother Dave wrote:

"I would agree that it is this last group that are chosen and see the correlation between those who hear the word because they are called, those who accept it because they are chosen, and those who bear fruit because they are faithful."

According to the parable of the sower, the word of God is sown into the heart of all groups...

Mat 13:19
"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.

Mat 13:20
"But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;

Mat 13:21
"yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Mat 13:22
"Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

Mat 13:23
"But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

So the word of God is sown in all, yet the last group is as you affirm the chosen of God. Why do the first three groups who have been called by God fall short?

Quote: It seems something of the will is involved

That something is called Sin, it is Sin that deceives.

murrcolr writes:

"That something is called Sin, it is Sin that deceives."

Gen 4:6
So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?

Gen 4:7
"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

God exhorts Cain to repent and if he repents God says the He will "accept" (choose) him. And then God warns Cain that "sin lies at the door, and its desire is for you, but you should rule over it." Likewise, God had warned Adam and Eve to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

In both of these precepts: From what source does evil and sin emanate from?

I asked:

"In both of these precepts; from what source does evil and sin emanate from?

Jas 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

Jas 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

Jas 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.

Jas 1:15
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Jas 1:16
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

Again; James writes;

Jas 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

Who must man reject, and if he does who chooses him?

Do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Roms 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Sin deceived, then Sin slew....

murrcolr wrote:

"Sin deceived, then Sin slew..."

Jas 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.

Jas 1:15
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

What comes before the "birth to sin"?

We could go around in circles all day, as your writing about's sin the action, while I am writing about Sin the spiritual force...

Sin sought to get entrance to the world, so it said "if you eat of the fruit you'll be like God"

Sin deceived, then it slew them.

murrcolr writes:

"We could go around in circles all day, as your writing about's sin the action, while I am writing about Sin the spiritual force..."

Actually, as the Scripture points to the act of temptation as the source for sin, we both are pointing to the spiritual force that is corrupting this world. And that force is Satan.

Do you agree?

Nope I dont agree that - "the act of temptation as the source for sin"

Temptation is not sin, the deceiving enticement behind temptation is Sin. Now when you succumb to the temptation, it will bring forth sin, but if don't succumb to temptation and you resist Sin, it will depart from you and will have not have sinned, so temptation is not sin.

Sin looks for a weakness, a desire that you may have, it will whisper using flattering words to entice and it will slowly draw the mind away, all the while working away to convince and minimise the sinfulness of the act sin that it desires you to do.

murrcolr writes:

"Nope I don't agree that - "the act of temptation as the sourceof sin"

Sorry I was not precise enough, according to Scripture...

Jas 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.

Jas 1:15
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

The spiritual source that tempts the individual is the devil.

Do you agree with this statement?

Sister wrote:

"It says "drawn away by his own desires"

Gen 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Scripture teaches that God created man with the capacity to desire and enjoy His creation. This precept is clearly stated throughout Scripture. With that stated, let us consider the first example given to us in Scripture...

Gen 3:1
Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

Gen 3:2
And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;

Gen 3:3
"but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”‰”

Gen 3:4
Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.

Gen 3:5
"For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Gen 3:6
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.

In this section of Scripture, who uses Eve's desires to bring about the act?

I asked;

"who uses Eve's desires to bring about the act? "

"Gen 3:4
Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.

Gen 3:5
"For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Usually in the study of the bible, in a systematic way, teachers teach that the first time a precept is taught, that there should be special attention paid to this introduction. Well this is the first time that Satan deceives woman.

How does the above Scripture provide commentary for the Scripture below?

Jas 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.

Who is the source of the deception, Satan or Eve?

I asked:

"Who is the source of the deception, Satan or Eve?"

2Co 11:3
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicityfn that is in Christ.

So Scripture confirms that Satan is the source of Eve's temptation. And more so, temptation is used to appeal to one's desires. Let us look a little further into Eve's testimony....

Paul says this about the "deception."

Rom 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet.”fn

Rom 7:8
But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

Rom 7:9
I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Rom 7:10
And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.

Rom 7:11
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

Now look to the conversation between Satan and Eve, do you see what Paul is writing about in Romans 7?

Has Satan ever said to you, "surely you will not die" if you give in to the particular temptation that he has appealed to through your desires?

I want to thank you all,here for communing with us all on this so important
subject.

Do you believe deception alone,could be Life or death ?
( Of course,we know there are many things that can led into deception.)

Is deception ' a darkness', ?.....a lie, ?

Isn't deception very sly,...not readily seen,...not detected easily ?

elizabeth

Sister Elizabeth asks:

"Do you believe deception alone, could be Life or death?"

1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

In the above Scripture, Adam was not deceived. His transgression is that he chose to obey Eve's voice instead of God's. According to the verse below, Adam, covered his transgression, he knew that he willfuly chose to disobey God.

Job 31:33
If I have covered my transgressions as Adam,
By hiding my iniquity in my bosom,

So deception is not the only means by which one chooses the path that they will follow.

According to Scripture there are two paths....

Gal 6:8
For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Rom 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet.”fn

Gen 2:16
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;

Gen 2:17
"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

..................................

Rom 7:8
But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

Gen 3:1
Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

Gen 3:2
And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;

Gen 3:3
"but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”‰”

....................................

Rom 7:9
I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Rom 7:10
And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.

Gen 3:4
Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.

Gen 3:5
"For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

.................................

Rom 7:11
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

Gen 3:6
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate.

.........................................

Jas 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.

Jas 1:15
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

"and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

What does Scripture say of the relationship between God, Cain, and the devil?

Jas 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.

1Jo 2:16
For all that is in the world””the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life””is not of the Father but is of the world.

Gen 3:6
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate.

Please note the order in which Satan tempts man and the order in which Eve considered Satan's suggestion.

Jas 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.

So the work of Satan is to "entice" the individual through appealing to the desires that that individual has been created with. And as the individual walks this path the fruit of Satan's work manifests in creation the "lust" of the flesh, the "lust" of the eyes, and the pride of life.

1Jo 2:16
For all that is in the world””the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life””is not of the Father but is of the world.

And all the world is subjected to this corruption...

Jas 1:15
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

When the individual follows Satan's appeal, desire is conceived which was not and now becomes sin. Prior to Satan's words, desire was absent of corruption.

1Jo 2:16
For all that is in the world””the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life””is not of the Father but is of the world.

This Scripture above speaks about a "lust" that is of this world. Let us look further into this precept...

Pro 1:28
"Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.

Pro 1:29
Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD,

Pro 1:30
They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.

Pro 1:31
Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.

Pro 1:32
For the turning away of the simple will slay them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them;

This section of Scripture above is commentary on the Scripture below....

Rom 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Rom 1:19
because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

Rom 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Rom 1:21
because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Rom 1:22
Professing to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23
and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man””and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Rom 1:24
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,

Rom 1:25
who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Rom 1:26
For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

Rom 1:27
Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Rom 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Rom 1:29
being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, [fn] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,

Rom 1:30
backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Rom 1:31
undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, [fn] unmerciful;

Rom 1:32
who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

So in the process of time, we see that there is a corruption that grows in all who do not obey God's rebuke. And what is the outcome for those who reject God?

Sister:

Followers of Christ are exempt and excluded. Christians are no longer part of or counted with the world, but rather the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 1:12-13 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: (13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Hope this helps, I pray that the Holy Spirit will quicken His word to your heart and spirit.

dfella wrote:

Followers of Christ are exempt and excluded. Christians are no longer part of or counted with the world, but rather the Kingdom of God.

Yes this is true for those the world hates and Christ loves. Yet this precept being true and just, does nothing for those who are being deceived. Because we know that there will come a day in each individuals life where he or she might hear these words....

Mat 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mat 7:22
"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

Mat 7:23
"And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I asked:

So in the process of time, we see that there is a corruption that grows in all who do not obey God's rebuke. And what is the outcome for those who reject God?

Pro 1:31
Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.

According to Scripture, being "filled to the full with their own fancies" because they "eat the fruit of their own way" describes how "lust" is manifested in the individual who follows the tempter.

Where in Scripture do we find testimony given of an individual who exemplifies this precept?

Where in Scripture do we find testimony given of an individual who exemplifies this precept?

Gen 4:6
So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?

Gen 4:7
"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

The above Scripture is an example for the Scripture below....

Pro 1:29
Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD,

Pro 1:30
They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.

and

Rom 1:21
because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Rom 1:22
Professing to be wise, they became fools,

So Cain first man born of Adam is an example of this precept...now Scripture also tells us both the reason and the result of Cain's life.....

1Jo 3:12
not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

Jesus describes the relationship of those who are "of the wicked one."

Jhn 8:43
"Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.

Jhn 8:44
"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Where do we find in Scripture the precept that the devil has offspring?

"Where do find in Scripture the precept that the devil has offspring?

Gen 3:14
So the LORD God said to the serpent:

"Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

God's curse on Satan..."I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed;

Two families at the fall of man are identified according to the spiritual realm...

"Two families at the fall of man are identified according to the spiritual realm..."

Rom 8:20
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;

Rom 8:21
because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God

All have sinned even those who did not sin in the way of Adam...

Rom 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

So all are " subjected to futility" so all are in bondage to Satan...

So then if there are two spiritual families, all start out subjected to corruption, what is the first example given to us in Scripture of a man who escapes the bondage of Satan?

rookie,
You said,

"So deception is not the only means by which one chooses the path that they will follow."

And:

" According to Scripture there are two paths....."

Yes, very true rookie,...yes,sometimes it is just rejection.

Thank you for brightening the light on that.
Also you give so many GOOD Scriptures, and ask lot of good questions...
of which,I have a hard time comprehending,..but it sets us to
thinking. Thank you.

God bless,
elizabeth

defella,

You said,"

" Followers of Christ,are exempt and excluded.Christians are no longer
part are counted with the world,but rather,The Kingdom of God."

That is so good! And it got me to thinking too.Thank you so much ! I do love the communion !

..." Followers of Christ" ...If The resurrected King, is truly Lord / Ruling / leading / guiding, in my life ?

Isn't that so true defella ,..and yet when I call myself a "Christian "....to fit that category,...I am really making a tremendous statement ? So, by Faith,
..and according to His Word,..and also considering if the Word,"Faith",...
has it been distorted by it's use,in the world ? ,...all is very important....( in order to keep me from being deceived.

* 1Pet.1:10,.."..give diligence to make your calling and election sure; for if you do these things,ye shall never fall."
( I believe, you and rookie were talking about that,a few post back )

Well, I have much work to do,
God bless,
elizabeth

Sister Elizabeth quoted me....

"So deception is not the only means by which one chooses the path that they will follow."

I went back to that post, and I realize that I shifted from one thought to another without finishing the first.

I failed to clarify my answer to you...In Scripture, Eve was deceived. Adam on the other hand was not deceived, he chose to disobey God's command. So there are two ways of falling under Satan's work illustrated by Adam and Eve. There are many ways created by Satan to corrupt God's creation. There are many paths that lead to one's submission to the spiritual rule of Satan.

Sister Elizabeth wrote:

"Well, I have much work to do,"

May I suggest that "much work" be exchanged by "much listening" and "much praying" that God will continue to direct our feet along "His paths."

Rookie, I agree with what you quoted in Matthew 7 and know full well that many who think they know God and think they are doing His will God will say He NEVER knew them.

And to clarify when I said followers of Christ, I mean those who confess Christ in word and deed and not just those who profess Him in word only.

I like how Elizabeth said it:

." Followers of Christ" ...If The resurrected King, is truly Lord / Ruling / leading / guiding, in my life ?

She also said:

and yet when I call myself a "Christian "....to fit that category,...I am really making a tremendous statement ? So, by Faith,..and according to His Word,..and also considering if the Word,"Faith",...has it been distorted by it's use,in the world ?

When we call Jesus Christ Lord by faith and He rules, leads, and guides us we are His and true followers because we DO His will.

Now Elizabeth, you mentioned something about faith and it being distorted by it's use in the world, I agree whole heartedly, many say they have faith but they have not works according to James 2:14 and I believe that their faith is distorted. This is confirmed by Peters words you quoted in 1 Peter 1:10 when Peter says...if you DO these things...

Again the key word is DO, we must be doers of the word and not hearers only for he who only hears and does not DO distorts his own faith. Hence, what Rookie quoted in Matthew 7:21, Doing the will of the Father.

Rookie, I have so appreciated the dialogue in this thread and your wisdom and heart in sharing, it has challenged me to really ponder the thoughts you have expressed, like SE said, I too appreciate the communion.

A question for you, when Elizabeth says she has much work to do, I am pretty certain she does not mean work in the sense of attaining but work because she has already attained. So when you say she should replace her much "working"(doing) with much "listening"(hearing) and much "praying" are not all 3 important?

Hope this makes sense, it's in my head, I have trouble getting it out in thought sometime.

Oh yes, rookie ,..." Much listening",....." Much praying ...very important,..

Thank you for the exhortation.

What I really meant,was, I must leave my iPad, and get my home / garden
work done.Sometimes it is hard for me to get to these things here,..that is communing,...that I love. Sorry, ...I don't always make things very clear.

God bless,
elizabeth

Sister Elizabeth wrote:

"Sorry, ...I don't always make things very clear."

As you can see we are in the same boat...I know what I mean but others can't read my mind. We are His work in progress:)

I'm a gardener too. The oldest profession in His creation.

dfella wrote:

"So when you say she should replace her much "working"(doing) with much "listening"(hearing) and much "praying" are not all 3 important?"

Another failure to communicate on my part. When I wrote Elizabeth I was thinking about this, but did not think to elaborate on what I wrote...without Elizabeth's clarification on her saying "much work" I took it in the context of the topic of this thread. But now things are clear, but to answer your question, again within the context of this thread...this is what was on my mind then...

The focus is on learning about how God teaches us about His Righteousness...

Psa 17:4
Concerning the works of men,
By the word of Your lips,
I have kept away from the paths of the destroyer.

In this Scripture, David says that God continually spoke to him to enable him to recognize "the paths of the destroyer."

So when I exhorted Elizabeth to "listen" more this Scripture was in my mind.

When I exhorted Elizabeth to "pray" these Scriptures were in my mind...

Psa 119:5
Oh, that my ways were directed
To keep Your statutes!

Psa 119:6
Then I would not be ashamed,
When I look into all Your commandments

.....

Psa 119:28
My soul melts from heaviness;
Strengthen me according to Your word.

Psa 119:29
Remove from me the way of lying,
And grant me Your law graciously

The person who wrote these words understood that he without God's grace could not rid himself of "the way of lying," So he calls on the Lord to "remove" what he could not. I believe Paul is talking about the same precept when he writes....

Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 7:15
For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.

Rom 7:16
If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.

Rom 7:17
But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Rom 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Rom 7:19
For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.

Rom 7:20
Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Rom 7:21
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.

Again "how to perform what is good I do not find", speaks to Paul's acknowledgement that he according to his flesh, cannot solve his problem. Just like the writer of Psalm 119, Paul points to this understanding about the weakness in his flesh.

So like the writer of Psalm 119, we must ask God to heal us from sin that entraps us. That is why Paul then writes...

Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, [fn] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death

Doing begins with hearing the word first, then responding to what is heard. The Lord says this to those who are burdened...

Mat 11:28
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat 11:29
"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Mat 11:30
"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

The "yoke" is representative of Him directing the individual by the "words" that He speaks to that individual. He says, "learn from Me,"...

Think about the Scripture below when Jesus speaks of being under a heavy burden...

Psa 119:28
My soul melts from heaviness;
Strengthen me according to Your word.

I agree Rookie with what you said and thought I would anyway just wanted to clarify to be on the safe side for the sake of others reading.

Looks like we were both wrong about what Elizabeth meant when she said she had "much work" to do! LOL

I remember when I first got saved I thought the more I listened to the word over and over I would increase my faith according to Romans 10:17. So I would listen to bible on cassette over and over.

Finally I realized that hearing had to do with believing what God said. Some things over the years I heard just once, and in my spirit I knew it was true and when I would go and study the scriptures to see if things were so I found that it was.

When Jesus would speak, many times He would say, "Him who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying"

If we do not believe what we hear, then we did not hear at all. Gods words are spirit and they are life, they are not the mere words of man and when God speaks He quickens and makes alive those words in our spirit IF we are willing to hear AND believe, and walking in the spirit like you quoted it will produce obedience. I do not want to skim over the fact that we couldn't believe if it were not given to us by the Father either.

There is a good example of what I am thinking in John.

John 6:63-70 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life. (64) But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. (66) From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. (67) Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? (68) Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. (69) And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. (70) Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Verse 66 says MANY of His disciples turned away and walked with Him no more. Why? Because they were unwilling to hear.
Peter and the others however BELIEVED and were sure He was the Christ because Gods Words were quickened by the Spirit of God AND ordained by the Father.

We have said much in this thread and topic regarding being deceived but I am more convinced than ever before that our unwillingness to hear and obey God is what turns us over to deception as opposed to those who hear, love, and obey God. I just do not see God that way, if we fall short, it is because of us not Him. Make sense?

dfella wrote:

"We have said much in this thread and topic regarding being deceived but I am more convinced than ever before that our unwillingness to hear and obey God is what turns us over to deception as opposed to those who hear, love, and obey God. I just do not see God that way, if we fall short, it is because of us not Him. Make sense?"

I agree with your view of God and how He works behind the scenes. I agree with your view of deception being the fruit of "unwillingness to hear and obey God". I have been trying to keep separate this thread which deals with corruption and the other thread... Pure Milk of the Word which deals with what you said about hearing and doing according to what God is doing in one's life.

In Christ
Jeff

Thanks for pointing out the thread on the Pure Milk of The Word Jeff. I had not read that thread and did look at it tonight.

It took a while to read all of it and it is a very excellent thread with many wonderful thoughts and wisdom from all. I see where I was actually rehashing things that were already discussed in that thread but it did help to confirm to me my own thoughts.

Brother Blaine mentioned in the beginning of that thread how Chinese Christians who received their very first bibles in China, it brings tears to ones eyes to see it, so here is the video. I figured I would share it here in order not to disrupt the flow of the Spirit in the other discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkXDcdMNE-I

A few posts ago I asked this question...

"So then if there are two spiritual families, all start out subjected to corruption, what is the first example given to us in Scripture of a man who escapes the bondage of Satan?"

1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

1Jo 3:11
For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,

1Jo 3:12
not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

In verse 10, John declares that there are two groups, "the children of God" and "the children of the devil." John further seeks to define each group by what each group does. John then picks Cain as an example of those who are children of the devil. And likewise John picks Abel as an example of those who are children of God. And finally John states that Cain's "works were evil" and "his brother's righteous."

What spiritual precept is at play here concerning why Cain murdered his brother?

I asked...

"What spiritual precept is a play here concerning why Cain murdered his brother?"

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

God said that He "will put enmity between you" who is Satan, and "the woman" who is the "Jerusalem above". "And between your seed" the children of the devil, "and her Seed", the children of God. This precept is spiritual for Satan lives in the spiritual world.

2Th 2:9
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

The word "power" in the above verse is "dynamis."

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,fn for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

The word "power" in the above verse is "dynamis."

So this is the spiritual battle which takes place in God's creation. What other Scripture speaks of this "enmity"?

So this is the spiritual battle which takes place in God's creation. What other Scripture speaks of this "enmity"?

Jhn 15:18
"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.

So then here is the choice placed before all God's creation...

Gal 6:7
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

Gal 6:8
For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

What ever man sows that he will reap. Those who sow to the flesh, those who respond to Satan's temptations and as a result of that response to temptation, will grow in lust to satisfy the flesh, eyes, and pride of life. This man "who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption...)

Gal 6:7
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

Gal 6:8
For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Now going back to this parable...........................

Mar 4:13
And He said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?

Mar 4:14
"The sower sows the word.

Mar 4:15
"And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Mar 4:16
"These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

Mar 4:17
"and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble.

Mar 4:18
"Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word,

Mar 4:19
"and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Mar 4:20
"But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

What influence does Satan have in each of these four groups?

defella,said ,'When we call Jesus Christ Lord,by Faith,and He rules,leads,and guides us,we are His and true followers because we do His will.'

Also,.. 'Again the key word is DO.we must be doers of the Word and not hearers only,for he that hears and does not DO distorts his own faith.'

What a statement !..but very true.

Another Word that I believe that has been badly distorted,is the Word Grace.

Grace is, 'The Devine influence upon the heart,and it's reflection in the Life.'

(1) The Devine influence upon the heart, ...(the drawing,by His Spirit)..The hearing of the Word

(2) And it's reflection in the Life,....The doing of The Word.

And if Satan could distort the Word,Grace,....How many people could he deceive ?

But,no one can tell one that they are deceived...it is a blinding( and we are ALl still learning ( desiples ,...learners )

It is a crying out to God to show us, and not only to show us,but to help us in turning to Him.

We know that Paul heard God' Word, ...from God, and yet he said,that he had to keep himself in subjection,lest he would be a castaway.

.....for as many,as are led by the Spirit of God,they are the sons ( children )
of God.

Lord, help us,
elizabeth

Elizabeth writes:

"And if Satan could distort the Word,Grace,....How many people could he deceive ?"

Mar 4:12
"so that

‘Seeing they may see and not perceive,
And hearing they may hear and not understand;
Lest they should turn,
And their sins be forgiven them.’”‰” [fn]

God's grace is summed in this verse above....to see, to hear, and to understand...this He supplies to those who are willing.

As you have said, Satan does distort the Word grace. This is the warning.....

Mar 4:15
"And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.

There are many ways Satan steals the word that was sown by God in the hearts of man. And the word "grace" is central to the deception.

There are many ways Satan steals the word that was sown by God in the hearts of man. And the word "grace" is central to the deception.

Many seem to want to make the grace of God to mean the same as the mercy of God.

How does this lead to deception?

I wrote: Many seem to want to make the grace of God to mean the same as the mercy of God...How does this lead to deception?

Rom 5:10
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Rom 5:17
For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Question..."For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son" is this an example of God's grace or mercy?

Rookie wrote:

Question..."For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son" is this an example of God's grace or mercy?

I would say Mercy. It was Gods mercy that He gave His Son in our place for the death and punishment we deserved.

The grace of God can only apply if we are willing to turn and repent from our sin and putting our faith in Christ's sacrifice, otherwise there is NO mercy, and Gods grace is not automatic.

He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.(Proverbs 28:13)

I see Mercy as an act or demonstration of what God does for us (unmerited favor) which, if we then choose to respond, through faith, Gods grace is then and only then applied that we might be saved.

Here is an example of grace applied to us through faith after responding to Gods merciful invitation.

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2)

dfella wrote:

"The grace of God can only apply if we are willing to turn and repent from our sin and putting our faith in Christ's sacrifice, otherwise there is NO mercy, and Gods grace is not automatic."

What you said above is commentary on the verse below...

Rom 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

The Scripture says like you stated, having received Gods mercy, (Christ died for us), "much more then" points to the fact man, at this moment in his relationship with the Lord, is not yet "saved from wrath".

So what must man do?

"...we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2)

"access by faith into this grace" is a very important precept...what is Paul talking about here?

"access by faith into this grace" is a very important precept...what is Paul talking about here?

Paul writes:

Rom 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Rom 5:10
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

God's mercy does not save, the only means by which one "shall be saved" is by the receiving an abundance of grace that the Scripture's define as "His life."

There is a common saying in America..."We're living the life."

What do the Scriptures say about "the Life?"

You ask many great questions rookie,...and the Scriptures too.
I really appreciate them.

Lastly,you ask," What do Scriptures say about " That Life"?

Rookie,there are many things to say about "That Life"....so much !

* Jn.3:36,He that believeth on the Son hath every lasting Life;and he that
"Believeth NOT The Son shall not SEE Life,but the wrath of God abideth on him.( note,that there is not an "on " between " not and The Son.)

* 1Jn.5:11, And this. Is the record, that God hath given to us eternal Life,and this Life is "In"His Son.

** What does this " IN" consist of ?

* Verse. 12, He that hath The Son hath Life; and he that hath not The Son of God hath not Life.

**. What does "Hath The Son ",... Really consist of ?

God bless your Word,
elizabeth

Jn.17:3, (Jesus speaking),.."And this IS Eternal Life,that they might
KNOW THEE,the only true God, and Jesus Christ,whom Thou hath sent."

Sister asks:

**. What does "Hath The Son ",... Really consist of ?

After Jesus said to the women caught in adultery...

"Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

After Jesus commands the woman to "sin no more" He turns to the crowd and declares....

Jhn 8:12
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

Likewise in the book of Job....

Job 33:26
He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.

Job 33:27
Then he looks at men and says,
‘I have sinned, and perverted what was right,
And it did not profit me.’

Job 33:28
He will redeem hisfn soul from going down to the Pit,
And hisfn life shall see the light.

Job 33:29
"Behold, God works all these things,
Twice, in fact, three times with a man,

Job 33:30
To bring back his soul from the Pit,
That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

The "light of life" is given so that man can hear, and see, and understand. So that he can overcome the corruption and darkness of this world. So that man,
"may be enlightened with the light of life."

rookie,

Quote. Scripture from you:

Jn.8:12,"I Am The Light of the world,He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness,but have The Light of Life."

* Jesus spoke Light / Life,...His life / walk expressed that Light / Life.
What does this Light mean?

It means,.." Ps.119:105, " Thy Word is a Light unto my feet."
..." Ps.119:140,Thy Word is very Pure,therefore Thy servant Loveth it."...
119:154," quicken me according to your Word."...

Ps.119:130,"The entrance of Thy Words giveth Light."...
Ps.27:1, "The Lord is my Light and my salvation."...
Ps.36:9, " In Thy Light shall we see Light.."

As He gives Light,His quickened Word,Then do we SEE,more and more
unto the perfect day.

But then we become without excuse...to walk in those Truths.
Scary huh?...The fear of God.

Until again,
elizabeth

Sister wrote:
"As He gives Light, His quickened Word, Then do we SEE, more and more unto the perfect day."
"But then we become without excuse...to walk in those Truths.
Scary huh?...The fear of God."

The Scripture below is commentary on what you wrote above...

Rom 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

As you have written, then we SEE more and more unto a perfect day is the same as the "righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith..."

Rom 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

So all men are without excuse because God has witnessed to every man. We know this because...

Jhn 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Rom 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith:

The mercy of God tenderly forgives us our shortcomings according to the flesh. But the grace of God is revealed from faith to faith.

What do you suppose this means...faith to faith?

rookie,

You said. " The Grace of God is revealed from faith to faith."

Well rookie, I believe faith means hearing from God,and obeying,...
It is the Abrahamic type faith,..the Faith of Jesus,...and the apostles.

And Grace is 'the Devine effluence upon the heart,and it's reflection in the Life.

So,..as God reveals His will in our life,...As we hear,..or as The Lord draws us to His will through His Grace,..over and over,....on and on,then that is from faith to faith.

elizabeth

Sister Elizabeth wrote:

"Well rookie, I believe faith means hearing from God,and obeying,...
It is the Abrahamic type faith,..the Faith of Jesus,...and the apostles."

"So,..as God reveals His will in our life,...As we hear,..or as The Lord draws us to His will through His Grace,..over and over,....on and on,then that is from faith to faith."

Yes and amen.

And so Paul writes:

Rom 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we havefn peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rom 5:2
through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

So faith, biblical faith is the means by which one is justified and stands. It is faith that ensures peace with God.