response to those coming through mexico illegally

i noticed even though the immigration issue has been in the news for a few weeks now, no one has really touched on this topic. i just wonder, what do those who come to the forum think as a Christin our repose to the situation should be. i read that some churches are now being asked along the border to help house some of those who have come in illegally, and that church members are being asked to open up their homes too?

any thoughts on this topic
rdg

As a stranger in this land, myself (since my citizenship is in heaven) I am inclined to not be as hard on some of these immigrants as my other southern friends.

However:

1) It is illegal.

2) If they want to be a citizen of this country, then there is a process by which they can attain that. So they should go that route.

That being said, as a Christian, if I am in a situation in which an illegal immigrant is on my doorstep, I am going to do my best to take care of them, witness to them, and hopefully lead them to the Lord. I think the way Paul dealt with Onesimus is an excellent example to follow.

Do I want them to go back to Mexico? Yes, I do, if that is what the Lord wills. Am I going to resort to violence to get them back there. No way. Do I think that illegal immigrants are ruining our country? I refuse to answer that, because I think laziness on the part of Americans is far more devastating to our country than any 10's of thousands of illegals ever could be.

so do you believe that all these people coming should be allowed to stay even though they have broken the law in doing so?

if a church refuses to ask its members to home these people do you thing they are in sin for doing so? if a member who is concerned about sickness and criminal aspect refuses to open their home to illegal immigrants would they be in sin?

rdg

Would you help someone who was a liar, if it gave you the opportunity to present to them the Gospel?

havok20x
i would help them only if the Lord led me to do so. i would pray about it first and then follow His leading. if i was not moved by the Holy Spirit to act then i think it would be sin to do otherwise wouldn't it?

i know there are some moms who are concerned about their own young children becoming sick because of some of the diseases being carried by some of those seeking to come here. do you think they are wrong for not wanting to expose their children, or for wanting to protect them from some of the criminal aspect that is getting through?

rdg

At what point is aiding and abetting criminal behavior ok?

That is what makes this issue difficult. I personally would not illegally emigrate into another country, with no intention of learning their language and then expect their citizens to take care of me with their hard earned tax dollars that are already squandered by their government. My stepdaughter has to teach her 2nd grade class where half the kids cannot speak English and their parents who speak very limited English blatantly state that they will not teach them English.

The immorality of what these illegal immigrants are doing seems shocking to me.

Quite frankly I am not sure what Jesus would do. As far as I can tell he did not have to deal with this issue.

I am all for showing compassion but I am not for enabling criminal activity. Get here through legal channels and then we will talk about compassion. It is a much easier conversation at that point.

Our default setting, in my opinion, should be to help unless told otherwise.

The Lord is capable of protecting us from diseases and such, and if your children are vaccinated, then they should be okay.

*****************************

It is illegal in Texas to pick up hitch hikers. I do it anyway. Am I a criminal? I guess so, but I am doing what I am commanded to do by the Lord and helping people who need it. I won't pick them up if it seems to me that the Holy Spirit is telling me otherwise.

I don't want illegal immigrants coming here and raising my taxes and all of that, but I am called to something greater than that. I am called to advance the kingdom and I desire (although I am not always consistent) to do that by any means possible.

If the Lord can be glorified and I can impact eternity, why would I not take the opportunity? I am not saying to give anyone amnesty, but I must help them.

(edit: making the following less accusatory. Sorry, again, RDG.)

ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Everyone. If the issue is that they are law-breakers or sinners, then we ought never help anyone.

I don't have children or a wife. It is just me. So I don't have to concern myself about my family's well-being or their health; however, I would pray if the Lord wanted me to have that attitude in the first place. If so, then I should obey. If not, then I should be transformed by the renewing of my mind.

Again, Paul's actions in Philemon are an excellent example for us.

I don't have children or a wife. It is just me. So I don't have to concern myself with what you are saying, RDG; however, I would pray if the Lord wanted me to have your attitude in the first place. If so, then do so. If not, then be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

---

i am sorry i don't understand what you meant by this last part?

i didn't say people shouldn't help others, i asked what you thought about the situation.

i am only asking questions, i have heard many differing opinions from those very near the issue so i wondered what others might be thinking. that is why i asked.

rdg

I should have paid more attention. I am sorry for saying that it was your attitude.

The attitude that I am referring to is "I can't help them because it is illegal and I don't want my family to suffer because of them."

I have edited my post and posted a note to reflect the changes. I will try to watch what I am saying better and not redirect my frustrations I have in talking with others around this area toward yall.

Is a person who remains in this country illegally sinning based on their presence here?

What did Jesus say to the woman caught in adultery?

How can a person in the country illegally stop sinning? I can think of one way only.

It is not quite fair to say that since we all sin we have no right to take a stand on this issue. If that were the case we should just chuck all laws out the window.

Of course I am not saying we should be nasty to illegal immigrants. We should simply courteously escort them back across the border and do just a tad better job at preventing the problem in the first place.

havok20x

not a problem. i really don't know what the Lord heart is on this whole matter. i have begun praying about it myself because i have been having others share things with me a lot about this. it is a very difficult situation. i know very kind loving Christians on both sides of this topic.

rdg

If they have not repented and turned to Jesus, I don't expect them to leave at all.

They are dead in their trespasses and sins apart from Jesus Christ, so we cannot expect them to act as if they had the moral fortitude granted by the Holy Spirit.

It is not quite fair to say that since we all sin we have no right to take a stand on this issue. If that were the case we should just chuck all laws out the window.

This is not an issue of fairness, and this isn't an issue of our laws. I already said that it is illegal and if they wanted to be citizens, then they need to go through the process of becoming one.

However, since they ARE here and since my job is not to moralize the world or even a single individual, then we ought to take the opportunity we have to present the Gospel to them, so that they can be transformed and get a new heart and God can write His laws on their hearts and put the fear of Him in them so that they will not turn away from Him. Then you'll see obedience out of them toward God. But for right now, they are acting exactly as natural men, women, and children would.

Many American "Christians" are going to hear these words on that great day of judgment:

Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. [Mat 25:41-42]

Many of the "illegals" crossing the border are born again Christians whose devotion to the savior would make many of us feel shame for our own lack of it. About a month ago I visited one of them in an immigration prison. The gangs in El Salvador kept pressuring him to "pay up" ... they finally told him that if he didn't he would come home and see the head of one of his children cut off. When he arrived at the border of the USA "illegally" the border patrol permitted his wife and 5 children to live with his dad, but they kept him in prison. God has a purpose ... he is winning souls to Jesus in the prison.

Should that man of God starve his children to satisfy the gangs in El Salvador, or should he seek a place of safety and search for a way to provide for them?

When God commands them to provide for their families, and they CANNOT where they are living, SHOULD THEY OBEY GOD OR MEN [USA's faulty immigration laws]?

I am currently housing a man who just arrived here from Honduras Sunday. He explained to me the EVERYBODY in Honduras pays "gang tax" and with what little they earn they might pay rent this month but will not be able to eat ... then if they buy a few groceries, they can't pay rent. He traveled 4 days on top of a train to get through Mexico. He watched a gang member machety a man right down the shoulder and in the abdomen ... and then throw him off the top of the train. He had a special code number written on his shoe that his leader gave him so that if a gang member caught him, the code would be his pass (gang taxes have been paid). When he crossed the border (praying all the way), it just so happened that the immigration department never saw their group. He traveled 4 days in the desert. One gallon of water between 4 guys didn't last long. He thought he would die of thirst. They rejoiced to find a drinking pond that cows were drinking out of to quench their thirst.

This is just one of the MANY horror stories that I hear all the time. A few days ago I found out that the sister of a good Mexican friend of mine ran into the attic of their office (in Mexico) and escaped a raid. When she came down fearing and trembling, she saw her boss' head in a box.

Most Christians have the attitudes that they have toward the immigrants simply because they are only hearing what the news media tells them. If they ever got the chance to communicate with them they would have a different attitude.

If I were in their countries suffering what many of them suffer, I would break the border laws of the USA too.

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

When it comes down to either obeying God or men, I would have to choose to obey God rather than men (as Peter did in the book of Acts).

Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

As for the MANY who arriving in the USA without Christ ... WHAT A MISSION FIELD!!! Right here amongst us ... you don't even have to leave home.

its good to hear from others on this. it is a real difficult situation. as i said something to be praying and asking God what His heart on the matter is.

thanks
rdg

I live in Brownsville Texas, My house is 5 mins away from the border with Matamoros Mexico. Let me tell you, it is bad. the people coming across want security, and opportunities, which are nonexistent in that city. the Cartles, own everthing and the rival gang (zetas) are trying to push out the cartles for their own purposes.. Many cops are bought out and there is really no justice in that region..
I know many immigrants ( legal and illegal), whom i love so deeply, One family cared for me and my boys when my wife was sick with cancer..( I considered her family a God send, Like the ravens with Elijah)
that my experience
andy

The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: "Stand in the gate of the Lord's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all you men of Judah who enter these gates to worship the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Amend your ways and your deeds, and I will let you dwell in this place. Do not trust in these deceptive words: ‘This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord.’"For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another, if you do not oppress the sojourner "ILLEGALS" , the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm, then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever."Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail". (Jeremiah 7:1-8)

Here in Australia "ILLEGALS" do not come over fences at boarder crossings, but over sea in little leaky wooden boats filled to the brim with men, women and children. If they do eventually make it to Australia, its the homosexual/greenie type that generally takes them in and helps them out. Maybe us "Christians" are too busy building our "temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord".

There is one thing for certain, and that is those that are followers of Jesus, and neglect the sojourner "illegals" , the fatherless, or the widow,will bring destruction and judgement upon themselves. And that statement does not just come from the above scripture but is a theme all the way through the word of God.

Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says’””when the Lord has not spoken. The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the foreigner "ILLEGALS", denying them justice. (Ezekiel 22:28-29)

And the word of the Lord came again to Zechariah: "This is What the Lord Almighty said: ‘Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the foreigner "ILLEGALS" or the poor. Do not plot evil against each other.’ "But they refused to pay attention; stubbornly they turned their backs and covered their ears. They made their hearts as hard as flint and would not listen to the law or to the words that the Lord Almighty had sent by his Spirit through the earlier prophets. So the Lord Almighty was very angry."‘When I called, they did not listen; so when they called, I would not listen,’ says the Lord Almighty. ‘I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations, where they were strangers. The land they left behind them was so desolate that no one traveled through it. This is how they made the pleasant land desolate.’”(Zechariah 7:8-14)

Tough topic indeed. In thinking on this, I believe there needs to be a differentiation between those crossing the border to save theirs and their family's lives, and those crossing the border for just plain selfish ambition. As a Hispanic US citizen I can tell you that there are way more crossing the border for selfish ambition, for the American dream, than any other reason. Although Mexico is somewhat tyrannical, it is nowhere near as bad as N. Korea or El Salvador or other tyrannical countries.

If they are fleeing for their lives I don't see them breaking God's law in crossing the border. Jesus said if they persecute you in this city flee to the next, don't stay and be killed.

But even if they are crossing over for selfish ambition, we still need to extend the love of God to them just like we should do with any other sinner. We should share the gospel with them first and foremost, and do what we can regarding practical physical needs they may have.

I try to make it a rule not to give cash to homeless people but instead offer them food because I know that most homeless people are on drugs or alcohol and I don't want to be guilty of feeding their addiction. Sadly, even some ladies who have their kids with them on the streets pan handle for drugs or alcohol, or to get more money than they need.

As far as the government is concerned, I believe it has the right to prevent people from coming in illegally. But sadly, the government is so corrupt these days that it's hard to trust them. Sometimes it seems like they want to keep the immigration problem at a certain level to keep the low paying jobs going.

saw this headline a while ago.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/21/texas-gov-rick-perry-plans-to-deploy-1000-guardsmen-to-border/

don't know if this will help or only make a bad situation worse?? praying things don't get out of hand.

rdg

If we have Christians crossing the border, are they not supposed to obey mans laws also? There is "legal" routes to become an American citizen, if your not going the legal route, your entering the country illegally, thus breaking mans laws. Maybe with some Christians, the breaking of this law, fits on their buffet of other compromises.

bearmaster

Brother Bill maybe they are crossing the border to become Christians.:)

It happens when the N. Koreans cross over into China illegally.

Just a thought bro.:)

Bear

Mr. Bear, I guess my post was rather vague, I was speaking in reference to someones post, were they had mentioned that Christians were crossing the border illegally.

I agree that we should be merciful.

They are not coming over here because of evil intentions. They are coming because they see an opporuntity to better themselves or have a better life.

SOME of them are malicious and drug dealers and sex-traffickers, but not the majority. The majority want a better life.

I know it is illegal, but can you blame them when they see that, clearly, they will be better taken care of in our holding cells than they would free and in their homes back in their countries? I can't blame them.

I agree our borders should be secure. I definitely don't want people flooding our country and bogging down our system.

But I also don't want lots of things to happen, and they do. I should not withhold compassion from them, because I myself am a stranger in this land, as are all believing Americans.

appolus

For your consideration MrBillPro...........

"Pro 6:30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry;"

1 Peter 2:13 "Submit yourself to every ordinance of man to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors."

I don't think any Scripture trumps any other Scripture. God's will is perfect according to Romans 12. All of it fits together into perfect harmony.

If we EVER come to a place where we are pitting one scripture against another, then we are badly deceived.

If a man comes into this country to try to rescue his family, even if it is illegal, should we not extend some degree of mercy? We do not have to condone illegal actions in order for us to extend mercy and love.

Do you disown your children when they do what is wrong? No.

Did Jesus condone our actions by saving us? No.

If I feed a poor man, do I condone what wicked things he has done in his life? No.

****************

Now just to be perfectly clear, do not expect a lost person to even think about obeying the Scriptures. It takes being born again for anyone to even begin to bring themselves into submission to the Scriptures and the commandments of God.

havok20x....If we EVER come to a place where we are pitting one scripture against another, then we are badly deceived.

Brother Frank, I should have mentioned this from the beginning, I can't condone or condemn this "at this point", I am just here to get some scriptural feedback so I can "maybe" turn the page on this. Sorry I did not say this in the beginning.

Were in that place right here, are we all badly deceived?

If we think those two verses are on opposite ends of the spectrum, then yes. The Scriptures do not command one thing and then command another and now we are going to be violating a Biblical principle and sinning no matter which one we choose. It isn't like that. And if a person thought that or taught that, then they are deceived or at best highly misinformed because they do not understand the nature of the Scriptures or the Lord who wrote them.

havok20x...If we think those two verses are on opposite ends of the spectrum, then yes. The Scriptures do not command one thing and then command another and now we are going to be violating a Biblical principle and sinning no matter which one we choose. It isn't like that. And if a person thought that or taught that, then they are deceived or at best highly misinformed because they do not understand the nature of the Scriptures or the Lord who wrote them.

MrBillPro,

I am not talking to someone who doesn't know a lick of scripture. I am just saying that we, as Christians in general, should not decide truth based on parring up one verse against another. It all flows. It all makes sense together.

No one here understands everything, but if we approached any verse or verses with the attitude of "God's will is perfect, what does he say I should do?" any time we find what appears to be a contradiction, it is much better.

I really don't want to jump off of the OP, but brother, we've got to maintain sound doctrine. That doesn't mean perfection--although we should strive for it--it just means that we be like the bereans and diligently search the scriptures, because there IS a right answer and there IS an attitude that is pleasing to the Lord.

edit:

I am just trying to prevent treating the Scriptures like you would treat a hand in a poker match.

Personally, I do not know whether there is a clear-cut and dried answer to this question...

In thinking about it my mind traveled back to church history. There were people who fled for their lives crossing borders to escape their pursuers. Whether there were laws prohibiting that I do not know (but do know there were times when they asked for permission by the authorities to settle in a area), but I do know there were Believers who broke out of jail with the assistance of others and made their escape. The LORD even assisted Peter in making a jail break - oh, dear! I think it was funny on one hand and awesome on another. Can you imagine the consternation of the authorities who thought they had secured Peter only to find him gone by morning?? Cool. Neat. I love that - I love it when God overrides man...

During the Reformation it was considered illegal to render assistance to the Anabaptists but the local Lutherans and Catholics did so anyways because they appreciated them. Did you know that this kindness became a source of contention among the Anabaptists - "will these kind Lutherans and Catholic go to heaven or not?"

Or, how about Corrie ten Boom and her family who rendered assistance to the Jews. Illegal, yes, but today they are considered heroes.

We have a friend who had hired illegals to pick blueberries and they were sternly warned about the serious repercussions if they were found doing so. These Mexicans were fine workers - you could not find anything like that in town.

Tough situation with no easy answers. And maybe there are none.

rdg, you asked what we think and this is my understanding, or lack of it - take your pick.