The Lord's Supper/Communion.

The Protestant Church teaches that it is a symbol.

For starters, the Calvary Chapel churches believe and teach the real presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper, with real physical and spiritual healing available.

No, it just means they believe that Christ is present in a special way during Communion, not in His literal body and blood which the RCC says is offered up as a sacrifice every mass. The RCC view on it is a form of mystical cannibalism and clear blasphemy against our Lord's once for all sacrifice for sins.

Three Bible incidents come to mind for me.

One is the words Jesus spoke at the Passover meal when He took the cup and said, "This is My blood, all of you drink of it." He used wine, though He had His own real blood there if He had chosen to cut himself and used physical blood. He did not do that, He let the wine be a symbol of the blood. He told the disciples to take Him inside of themselves.

Then there was the time during His ministry when He shouted to the crowd, "Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no part of Me!" Which of course freaked out a large part of the crowd, rattling the 12 as well. It was a challenge again, "Don't just know Me, take Me inside,"

Lastly was the incident following His resurrection with Cleopas and another disciple in Emmaus. The men had been prevented from recognizing Him as He spoke on the road, the Holy Spirit restraining their minds as they were filled with information. But as they attended the evening meal, when Jesus broke the bread in front of them the Holy Spirit released them to recognize Him!

Discussions on the Communion meal can get complicated and even argumentative, but in my opinion it is about two things- recognizing in my inner man who He really is, and taking that reality inside as I walk a journey to becoming just like Him for eternity. Communion elements are a physical symbol of a spiritual reality.

That's how I see it. I would be interested in what others believe about it.

David Jeremiah, pastor of a local church here in San Diego, always teaches that it is just a remembrance of Jesus work in salvation. It would irritate me that someone should go about their daily life and then once a month remember that Jesus died for their sins.

I am mindful of that moment by moment, I just think the Communion meal has to be deeper, more powerful, more compelling than just a religious exercise in remembering.

The phrase, "You are what you eat" seems to have a place here.

Oracico is correct the RCC teaches that the wafer, becomes JESUS actual flesh, and that the wine becomes HIS actual blood. The priest prays, while the congregation is kneeling. The priest prays the Eucharistic Prayer and then holds the consecrated host up for all to see. At this point the wafer has become his actual body, and the wine becomes HIS actual blood...at least that is what any truly devout Catholic will tell you and believe. One other thing that should be made clear, Catholics are taught that there are requirements that must be met in order to take communion. They are taught that in order to truly be acceptable to take communion, one must first go to confession by going to the priest, confess, do penance,(pray prayers with the rosary) then you must believe that the wine and wafer become his flesh and blood, you must fast for no less then one hour before and then finally you will be in the right place and worthy to take communion. It is a very big deal to Catholics, the more frequently you take communion the closer you are to JESUS because you have been joined with HIM by the eating of his flesh. It is false teaching, it is not BIBLICAL and there is no support for such notions. They are pagan in their concept and no true believing Christian would take part in such an exercise.

God bless
maryjane

So I thought this worth sharing here:

It was close to their hearts to share in the Feast that Jesus spoke of, declaring visibly, until He returns. It was a declaration of their "one-loafness”””1Cor. 10, 11 and discerning of the Body of Christ as ONE. And, in fact, if they WERE NOT ONE”””your meetings do more harm than good, and it’s not the Lord’s Table AT ALL!” The ritual obviously MEANS NOTHING, if their lives don’t reflect the REALITY of the ENTIRE CHURCH AS ONE, DAY IN AND DAY OUT, IN THE COMMON AFFAIRS OF LIFE! "Contending as ONE MAN for the Faith” (Phil. 1:27). "Joined and knit together by every supporting ligament” (Eph. 4:16). "We being many are ONE!” IF the LIFE of the people doesn’t reflect this Truth, God says that they "eat and drink condemnation upon themselves” and it’s not even the Lord’s Supper anyway! And they shouldn’t bother to meet at all, since God is judging them for it. Wow.

So, it’s important to God. But, it’s not magic bread. It is a declaration to heaven and hell and earth of a UNION of LIFE, eating and drinking with Him anew in His Kingdom. AND, it must reflect the reality of our LIVING SITUATIONS DAILY AMONGST HIS PEOPLE, or it is a bogus ritual that God strikes some sick and others dead over (1Cor. 11). Being "DEVOTED” to doing it, and LIVING the Reality of it, MUST go hand in hand. And yes, God is very much involved in SUCH a "Communion” as this.........

We rarely participate in communion at my church--once a quarter at most. So I look forward to it.

It is clear since people were getting sick and dying in the Corinthian church over this that it is more than just a symbol. I don't agree with transubstantiation for sure; however anytime we reflect on the atonement we should be serious about it, especially when we are being obedient to The Lord and what we are commanded to do.

I have wanted to comment on this. But I have sat back and watched to see what everyone had to say.

Communion is a beautiful, powerful thing. Jesus instituted communion at the last supper ( Luke 22:19-20.) The Apostles and disciples did it (acts 2:42.) The apostle Paul instructed the Corinthian church how to go about taking Communion (I Corinthians 11:23-32).

In verse 23 Paul says that which I have received from the Lord have I delivered unto you. So we see here that Paul was teaching the church what the Lord had taught him. The Bible says in 1 corinthians 14 that if any man think himself to be a Prophet or spiritual, let Him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

So Communion isn't a custom, It is a commandment from God, and seeing how God instructed it and Jesus and the Apostles did it, we must do it also.

How often should we take communion? Jesus said do this as oft as ye drink it in remembrance of me. So that means He wanted them to do it more than once and He wants us to do it more than once. You can do it any time you remember Christ and what He has done for you, so long as it is out of a pure, righteous, and sincere heart.

There is power in communion. Because not every one is allowed to partake of it. Here in is where the power lies:

1 Corinthians 11:27-29 KJV
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

In order to take communion, you must be PURE. You must be holy, and must be living right. You must examine your self before taking, and if you have sinned you must repent in order to be in condition for communion. When you repent of your sins, And you have examined your self and are found worthy then you are in perfect condition to ask God for anything, and to claim the promises of God.

Many churches have done away with Communion because it makes many people uncomfortable because they have to face the fact that they have sin in their life. But when a person examines their life and rids themselves of anything that would hinder their relationship with God, when they get in condition, and when they remember what the Lord has Done for them, they can pray and God Will answer!

This is the power of communion, and that is why so many were sickly and dying in the Corinthian church, like they are today, because they were taking it without first examining their lives and repenting and askingGod to forgive them.

I urge you, plead with you, brethren and sisters, take God at His Word. If you have a sickness in your body, if you need God to move in your life, or just want to get closer to Him, take Communion!!!

Examine, repent and remember and watch God do great things. Taste and see that the Lord is good!!!

Love you all, God bless.

I urge you, plead with you, brethren and sisters, take God at His Word. If you have a sickness in your body, if you need God to move in your life, or just want to get closer to Him, take Communion!!!

Brother,

Can you expound on this statement a little more. I do not understand how these symptoms--sickness in the body and needing God to move in my life--are cured or nullified or generally affected by taking communion as per the scriptures.

I have a question to add to the one given:

How should a believer respond when there are communicants with rebellion in their lives?

There are 4 primary views on the communion/eucharist. However, rather than me lay them out and thrash them around I would suggest another route.

There was a marvelous resource written a few years back called, "UNDERSTANDING FOUR VIEWS OF THE LORD'S SUPPER".

Well respected and spoken followers of all four main views (Baptist, Reformed, Lutheran, and Roman Catholic) present their positions which are then counterpointed by the other three. There truly is a distinct difference in all four. It is a challenging read to put them all in the same ring at the same time and evaluate them.

It was very well done with each position making their case while the other three then had opportunity to respond and question it. All done in a thorough, respectful, and academic manner. An enjoyable read that removes much of the emotion and lets the various view be presented side by side letting the reader make his mind according to the truths he sees and his conscience.

Here is a link to the book if you wish to give it a look. Right now it is about $12.00 on CBD.

http://www.christianbook.com/understanding-four-views-the-lords-supper/john-armstrong/9780310262688/pd/262688

Well worth the investment if a person is actually interested in the topic and not just fighting or knit picking.

Good eVening, I apologize for not getting back to y'all sooner. I got off work a little later than expected, and have just now got a chance to get on SI.

Brother Havoc,

The Bible says The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and His ears are open unto their Prayers. We see from this Scripture that God hears the Prayer of a righteous person. Righteous meaning to be in right standing with God. As believers we live by God's Word, if we're not sober and vigilant though, we Will allow things to hinder our walk with God. Communion Is like stepping off the boat to go onto the water. It's taking the next step. It's more than just asking for forgiveness, but you search your heart and mind and ask God to reveal to you any area of your life that you are lacking in, and repent of your sin. After you repent, you take communion which honors God because you are remembering everything that He did by Sending His Son, and by remembering what Christ did for us on the cross.

The Bible says in Hebrews 4:16 KJV
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Now that you have been cleansed, You can come to the Throne boldly and Ask God what ye would because you know you have made things right between you and the Lord. There is nothing hindering your relationship with Him, you have done what is commanded of you and you can ask in Faith trusting in Him to answer.

Sis Ginny:

The Bible says In Phil 2:12 work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. As hard as it is, and as heartbreaking as it can be, You must make your choice, and they must make theirs. That's why the Scripture says examine yourself see if ye be in the faith. If you're in church you must come under the authority of the pastor because God is not the author of Confusion. After the Pastor teaches on Communion it is left up to the person to make the choice.

One scripture I really struggle with is 1 Corinthians 14:38 KJV
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

As a Preacher of the gospel, I Preach against sin and of the consequences of committing sin. I see people that hear the Word of God Preached and still walk out the door living the same filthy life style. I want to shake them, And turn them from their sin but ultimately, they must make their own choice. If they know better and still yet take it anyway they Will live with that. All we can do is pray for them, and work out our salvation for salvation.

James 4:17- therefore to Him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to Him it is sin.

Thank you for the questions. Again I'm sorry I am just now getting to answer. Hope y'all are doing well. God bless.

One of the deepest spiritual experiences I have had was when a dear brother arranged for a surprise, or spontaneous communion service for a a small number of us who prayed on Saturday mornings. He had little setting arranged around the table and as we entered the room he was at the door greeting us and gave us each a hug and said "there is a place prepared for you." It is hard to describe how impactful that simple act was. But I do know why- it is because Jesus was speaking through him.

For me, the spontaneity of it was what made it special because it did not seem so contrived and it was very simple. But the Lord was present- not in the elements but there with us. My church as a body take communion about once a quarter which to me is not enough, but I think groups of believers should take communion together apart from the church service. I believe it is more meaningful and a deeper experience that way. Also, that is the way Jesus began it-- with a small group of close friends.

I was listening to an Art Katz sermon a while back and he said he had a little communion "kit" and he took communion by himself every morning as part of his devotional time.

Communion Is like stepping off the boat to go onto the water. It's taking the next step. It's more than just asking for forgiveness, but you search your heart and mind and ask God to reveal to you any area of your life that you are lacking in, and repent of your sin. After you repent, you take communion which honors God because you are remembering everything that He did by Sending His Son, and by remembering what Christ did for us on the cross.

I love communion. I do, and I eagerly look forward to it whenever we have it.

I want us to review the text in 1 corinthians 11 where this concept is found.

Now in giving the following instruction I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. For to begin with, I hear that when you come together as a church there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. There must, indeed, be factions among you, so that those who are approved may be recognized among you. Therefore, when you come together, it is not really to eat the Lord’s Supper. For at the meal, each one eats his own supper ahead of others. So one person is hungry while another gets drunk! Don’t you have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you look down on the church of God and embarrass those who have nothing? What should I say to you? Should I praise you? I do not praise you for this!

For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: On the night when He was betrayed, the Lord Jesus took bread, gave thanks, broke it, and said, "This is My body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of Me.”
In the same way, after supper He also took the cup and said, "This cup is the new covenant established by My blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy way will be guilty of sin against the body and blood of the Lord. So a man should examine himself; in this way he should eat the bread and drink from the cup. For whoever eats and drinks without recognizing the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. This is why many are sick and ill among you, and many have fallen asleep. If we were properly evaluating ourselves, we would not be judged, but when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord, so that we may not be condemned with the world.

Therefore, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you gather together you will not come under judgment. And I will give instructions about the other matters whenever I come.

Man0fGod,

I am going to be direct, but don't think I am condescending.

What I am hearing is this: When we sin, we should ask for forgiveness, but when we really want God to do something for us, or we need a work in our life, or when we really need some deep cleansing, we should take communion.

I doesn't seem to me that this is the pattern that we have for us in the Scriptures. Now, clearly, I could be misunderstanding what is being said or I could just not be familiar with this concept as shown in the Scriptures. Both are pretty likely, lol.

I think the problem was the the Corinthians were very nonchalant and were taking advantage of one another and putting to shame those who had nothing. In fact, it appears that the whole concept of the Lord's Supper was totally off-kilter. They were eating and drinking and carousing about and definitely not discerning the body and blood of the Lord, nor were they remembering what He did for them. Yet they still called it the "Lord's Supper." It was anything but.

Because of that, the Lord had began to judge them and made some sick and killed others.

In view of all of this, Paul told them to examine themselves and explained how to correctly partake of the Lord's Supper.

Considering this, Paul was not telling them, "your health is bad and you are in sin, therefore take the Lord's supper in order to prompt the cleansing that you need." He was saying the opposite, "You are sick because you are sinning in taking the Lord's Supper and eating and drinking guilt on yourselves. Examine yourselves so that you are able to take it."

The Lord's Supper does nothing to cleanse me, just as baptism does not cleanse me. I must be clean prior to both of those things.

*****************************

I was listening to an Art Katz sermon a while back and he said he had a little communion "kit" and he took communion by himself every morning as part of his devotional time.

Is there a pattern in the NT that shows that we should do that? I always thought that communion was a communal ordinance and not a by-yourself ordinance.

Evening to you brother, are you having a good day?

You said:

The Lord's Supper does nothing to cleanse me, just as baptism does not cleanse me. I must be clean prior to both of those things.

Indeed, an unsaved man that gets baptized Will go down a dry sinner and come up a wet one haha. You must be clean to take communion, that is why the Scripture says Examine yourself. That's not the point I was trying to make, but rather that after you have taken communion you know where you stand with God. You have examined your self, and repented of any sin. So you know that you are pure, you know that you have been cleansed, and you have honored the Father by Remembering Christ.

So that gives you boldness to ask God for anything you need, because you know that there is nothing in you unclean that would hinder your Prayers and that you are in perfect condition to receive.

As for the other Question. I haven't read any Scripture that says we should only take communion in church. Jesus did say this do in remembrance of me. I take communion often at home. Our church takes it every month, but if I'm going to be Preaching then I take communion because it causes me to examine myself.

-------------

Saying all that, let Me say it was good to hear from you. I've got to cut it short. Till I hear from you again, God bless.

Man0fG0d,

I am having a fairly good day. Thanks for asking.

Your response makes sense to me. You're saying that if one partakes of communion correctly, then he would have already properly examined himself and not eating/drank condemnation to himself and repented of sin, etc. I can understand that.

**************

I have never even considered the concept of taking communion at my house by myself. I am not sure if that is biblical, and I don't mean that against what you're saying, but it is just a new concept to me.

So, the question that I have is this: Should I teach other believers to take communion by themselves?

I don't think I would encourage people to take communion by themselves. However I do not think it is "wrong" to do so. The idea is to reflect and remember what Christ did and if I feel I need to do that and communion would help then I would do it.

I personally have not (yet) taken communion by myself.

There are so many individual ideas about the meaning of the Communion elements, but if you believe they symbolize taking in more of Christ to become more conformed to Him, you would have no reservations of taking it alone.

It is also very moving to take communion with just one other believer, a little like an exercise in personal accountability.

Communion is an under-utilized blessing for most believers, they are usually constrained by the practice in their churches, and often believe it must be served by state registered clergy people.

Groan...

Quote: Havok wrote, """The Lord's Supper does nothing to cleanse me, just as baptism does not cleanse me. I must be clean prior to both of those things."""

How is this cleanliness accomplished for the believer?

In Christ: Phillip

Simple krautfrau.

The Friends were disobedient to the Lords commands.

One of the main reasons I left a Friends church I used to attend.

Just because they are awesome in some areas (like Catholics) does not mean they are correct in others.

Philip,

Ezekiel 36:24-27

"For I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries, and will bring you into your own land. I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will place My Spirit within you and cause you to follow My statutes and carefully observe My ordinances."

Titus 2:14

"He gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to cleanse for Himself a people for His own possession, eager to do good works."

Hebrews 10:22

"...let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water."

So there is a sense in which we are clean because of the work of Jesus Christ. My soul is clean. I stand pure before the sight of God because I have been made righteous, having believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

There is also cleansing in regards to sanctification:

2 Corinthians 7:1

"Therefore, dear friends, since we have such promises, let us cleanse ourselves from every impurity of the flesh and spirit, completing our sanctification in the fear of God."

James 4:8

"Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, sinners, and purify your hearts, double-minded people!"

There is also a sense in which we are pursuing holiness and sanctification and are constantly inventorying our lives in order to bring ourselves more and more into submission to Jesus Christ, cleansing ourselves. Although we all know that apart from Him, we can do nothing. So even that is not solely our prerogative.

I understand KF; however if even the earliest Friends did not practice baptism or holy communion they were disobeying the commands of The Lord.

There are so many individual ideas about the meaning of the Communion elements, but if you believe they symbolize taking in more of Christ to become more conformed to Him, you would have no reservations of taking it alone.

Does this concept appear in Scripture? I am not sure where to find the idea that taking communion = "taking in more of Christ". I also don't think that it symbolizes that either, but I could be wrong. I have not studied much on it. Scriptures would be great! Thanks!

Havok,

Two things come to mind regarding the scriptural basis for "eating the elements" of communion.

The first is Jesus' cry to His disciples and the crowd, "Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no part of me!"

We can hopefully agree that He was not inviting cannibalism, but rather using a graphic illustration confirmed later when He spoke to the disciples of making His abode within them. By the Spirit, it is His desire to live within us, able to work from within a submitted vessel. To me, the communion elements proclaim this substance of the relationship.

The other reference would be Exodus 12: 8-11 where the children of Israel are commanded to eat the Passover lamb, and they are required to eat it all, leaving nothing uneaten by morning.

Jesus is our fulfillment of that Old Testament type, He is the true Lamb of God, and our Bread of life.

Jesus Himself once told the disciples that He had bread about which they did not know, speaking of the hunger satisfaction He received from doing the Father's will. Again, the connections are not physical- but very real none the less.

Hope that helps?

Got it! Thanks!

Greetings to you all. Brother Havoc I apologize for posting so late, been running all over the past 2 days. To answer your question yes, but I would first make sure that they have a proper understanding as to why we take communion, and the consequences of taking it unworthily. Myself, I have taught others this for a while now because I just don't want to remember what Jesus did for me in church, but at home as well.

Jesus said do this in remembrance of me; when Jesus took it with His disciples we must remember they weren't at church, they were at a house(Luke 22:10) the disciples went from house to house breaking bread (acts 2:46).

Once again for lack of time,must cut it short. Lord Willing tonight I'll get back on and comment some more. I'm headed to church, Pray for us. Love you all and God bless.

Kratfrau, what I say, I say in love. The question is not what Will others think, but what does God think? What does His Word say? So often, we as people try to please the crowd and in doing so we deny Christ and miss out with God.

We have talked about communion, but did you know that baptism is a commandment as well? In fact, it was the Son of God, Jesus Christ Himself who said

Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus commands His disciples to go and teach all nations, and when they have come to the acknowledgement of who Christ is and what He has done by the Work on the Cross, and after they repent He says baptize them!

He goes on to say that the Disciples must teach the new converts to observe the commandments that Lord Gave them. So not only is He telling the disciples to Baptize but He is saying teach them the commandments so that when they spiritually mature enough to teach others that they baptize also.

We see from the Scriptures that Jesus commanded the Disciples to Baptize. Not only that, but Jesus believed in Baptism so much, He was baptized Himself (matt 3). Why? Jesus tells John He needs to be baptized to fulfill all righteous. He knew He couldn't teach us to do something He hadn't done Himself. He was baptized not to be cleansed,(as some think) He is Sinless, but rather to show to the world that He is clean.

Having said all that, my point is this. As Christians, we are called to be like Christ. Christ taught Communion and Baptism. Christ took Communion and was baptized. If Jesus thought it was important enough that He did it, shouldn't we do it?

He said in John 14:15 if ye love me keep my commandments.

The Quakers were great people, but we must examine them in light of God's Word. The Muslims pray 5 times a day, the Jehovah Witness send people out everyday to invite people to their church, despite those good traits they do not line up with God's Word an that is what we must Judge by.

Love you all, Hope everybody is doing well. God bless.

Good morning Krautfrau, thanks for the reply. I'm on the way to work right now but let me ask you a question: Where is your Scripture to back up what you say? Please show me in the Bible.

I look forward to your reply, have a good day.

Those who had come to a deeper understanding of what these symbols signified, and were cleansed from sin, were no longer required to continue in them, but for others, they could continue to encourage themselves for a future hope.

It is not wrong to interpret the sacraments in this physical symbolic way, but there should come a time when the symbols are fulfilled in our lives with the spiritual reality they came to signify, and where we can see the deeper meaning of them.

So I am not saying that brethren should not be continuing in the general understanding of them if they wish, but that it cannot be proven from history that it is absolutely vital to do so, and a short investigation of those who did not, and believed in the spiritual understanding of the elements, will show some of the most holy productive saints we have ever seen in the church.

This idea borders much on the edge of gnosticism. Especially the first paragraph. You are right to say that we should not just be participating in symbolic things that have no meaning to us nor any impact in our lives, but I do not think it is right to say that once we understand there meaning, we can opt-out.

I believe, and I think the scriptures show it as well, that both baptism and the Lord's supper are more than just symbols. Now I don't believe in baptismal regeneration nor Eucharistic regeneration. But just because those things don't save us does not mean we can divorce them from our lives or from the events that give them significance. It bothers me quite a bit to see that someone will make a profession of faith and then baptize them months or years later when they are REALLY ready to commit. It also bothers me that the Lord's Supper is treated like just a symbol or a reminder of what Jesus did for us. Even if that were true, I needed to be reminded way more often that 4 times a year. However, there is a very real work of God going on in our lives when we properly participate in communion. There is a very real work of God going on in church when a new convert is baptized.

Just because I understand perfectly (and I am not saying I do) what baptism and communion are about does not mean that I dont' have to do them anymore (not that baptism is continuous). If I understand what communion is about, then that ought to make me desire to do it more. If I understand why people are baptized, then that should make me want to see it happen as close to conversion as possible.

Evening to you guys, how is everybody? I've been trying to finish up 2 jobs today, so I've been busy.

Bro havoc, you Will have to educate me, I'm not a smart Person. What is Gnosticism?

Krautfrau, I have studied the Scriptures. The Bible says All Scripture it's given by Inspiration of God. That means every Scripture has its perfect place, and purpose and in no way does it contradict. The Word of God is pure, and infallible.

Jesus told the multitude in John 6 unless they eat His flesh and drink His blood they would not have eternal life. Jesus is the Word, so He was telling them if they did not Partake of the Word of God, if they did not eat and drink the Word they would not have eternal life.

Their fathers ate Manna in the wilderness and are dead. There are many churches today that are trying to feed the multitude "manna" such as their opinions, thoughts, belief and doctrines, but Jesus said if ye want eternal life ye must eat His flesh, and drink His blood. You must live off Him, because He is the way, truth, and life.

So what does the Word say? That Jesus took His disciples into an upper room and that He gave them bread to eat and drink from the vine. He said do this in remembrance of me.

What does the Word say? That the disciples in Acts broke bread, and took Communion. Is Communion Spiritual? ABSOLUTELY! Paul said in 1 corinthians 11 that as oft ye eat this bread and drink this cup ye do shew the Lord's death Till He come.

The Bible also says that Faith without works is dead! So Jesus and the Apostles physically took Communion! Paul didn't tell the Corinthian church that Communion was only symbolic, or only a spiritual thing. He Told them what it stood for, and why they did it ( spiritual). Then He Told them to examine themselves and how to go about doing it (physical.)

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If you haven't been baptized into Christ then Water Baptism does you no Good. The Bible said if any man be in Christ, He is a new Creature. Old things are passed away (dead) all things are become new.

When we repent of our sins and are saved, we are buried with Christ, and Baptized into His death. God raises us up as new creatures, Quickened by the Spirit, alive in Christ. We have been made new, and filled with His Spirit.

After the sinner has repented of His sins and is buried and risen with Christ, He is to be baptized for the remission of sins according the Scripture. To show that He is no longer who he once was but He has died and resurrected in Christ (symbol) He gets baptized (physical).

Where Jesus, Paul, Peter, Phillip, John and all the other Apostles baptized in the Spirit? Yes. Did Jesus command His Disciples to Baptize new converts in water? Yes. Did Jesus get baptized in water? Yes. After Jesus was baptized did John continue to Baptize in water? Yes. Did Jesus baptize people in water? Yes.

After Jesus ascended to the Father, Did the Apostles continue to Baptize converts in water? Yes, after they were saved and Filled with the Spirit of God. Did any of the Apostles dismiss water baptism as mere symbolism
As they're death and resurrection with Christ? No, they took them to be baptized.

My dear friend, if Jesus commanded it, we must obey it. If the church we read about in the Bible did it, We must do it. We must be baptized in the Spirit and we must uphold water baptism. I am in no way arguing Scripture. Scripture is Scripture and it is all right. It is also all important.

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply i worked a crazy day today. Hope you're doing well. Love you.

I love your energy, ManOfGOd!

Gnostics believe that spiritual things are good, physical things are bad. In the annals of Christendom, gnostics taught men to neglect their bodies to "punish" the evil flesh, to regard sexual intercourse as evil, even eating tasty food was wrong. It was an easy trap for the self-righteous to wallow in pride and oppress others.

Paul deals with this in several places, I like his direct shot in Colossians 2:23 where he describes these self degrading practices as having an appearance of wisdom in man-made religion, but as having no value in restraining the flesh.

Gnosticism is prolific in Eastern religions with Zen and Karma concepts, men striving to accommodate the spiritual world they know surrounds them, but refusing the Lord Jesus Christ who is the source of all genuine spiritual wisdom.

Alas they become easy prey for Satan who prowls the dark streets of the spiritual nether world seeking agents for his deceptive criminal enterprise.

One of the tenets of gnosticism is that God is a dark, mysterious God who cannot be known except by secret knowledge.

Gnostics easily snuck into the church because they taught that young, naive Christians would believe a certain way, but those who were mature would have a totally different, more-or-less secret set of beliefs. It was rather strange. They definitely taught 2-tier christianity.

I agree with Havok and Krautfrau, gnosticism is a way to separate flesh and spirit in such a way as to condemn sinful flesh and yet continue to enjoy debauchery- believing one's spiritual affairs are in perfect order.

It is the pinnacle of human arrogance to believe we can put one over on God!

1 Timothy 4:1 KJV
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Thank you for teaching me Sidewalk and Havoc. Gnosticism sounds like a doctrine of devils as described in the Scripture above.

Thank you Krautfrau, for encouraging me to study the Scripture more. Once again, I must apologize for answering so late. I just got out of church, We had an awesome service the Spirit of God came down and helped people Tonight. Pray for us that we make it Home safely.

It is very important for us as Christians to be in Communion with Christ everyday through Prayer and partaking of the Word of God. However, we must remember that after Jesus was resurrected and after He ascended to the right hand of God that The Apostles still took Communion, and that P that When Paul taught the Corinthian church how to go about taking Communion, He didn't just tell them that it was symbolic but He told them to examine themselves so that could be clean. In order to take communion we must be righteous and have a relationship with Christ.

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Are you saying that water baptism is only a prophecy of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost? The Bible says that Jesus came to Baptize us with the Holy Ghost and with Fire however after the Holy Ghost descended the Lord did not do away with water Baptism. Consider these Scriptures:

Acts 10:44-48 KJV
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. [45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. [46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, [47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

These disciples were already baptized in the Holy Ghost. Yet Peter still commanded them to be baptized in water. He did not dismiss the water baptism as something only symbolic, or as a shadow of things to come. This shows us that both the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and the Baptism of water are important. If the Lord commanded His disciples to do it we must obey Him.

To answer your question, the Bible says we must grow in grace and wisdom. That we must study to shew thyself approved unto God. We must Pray that those who do not physically partake of these ordinances because they think they're only symbols read the Bible and come to the acknowledgement of the truth.

We must also pray for those who physically participate in these instructions without daily being in Communion with Christ and who have no living relationship with God.

Faith without works is dead. If ye love me keep my commandments. If ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the flesh, ye shall live.

Matthew 23:25 KJV
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Matthew 23:23... These ought ye to have done, and not have left the other undone.

Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God.

Love you brother hope you have a goodnight.

Sister, I do apologize. That felt like one of those open mouth insert foot moments. Did you have a good weekend?

The Bible says that Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by thr Word of God. Sister, history has nothing to do with this. These were clear commandments given out by the Lord, that we must obey. The reason Jesus was baptized was because (in His own Words) He had to fulfill all righteousness. If Jesus only got baptized as a symbol of something greater, He would have said that. God was pleased with Jesus because He was obedient to the Father, because He did what was required to please Him

Baptism wasn't just a Jewish custom, it was something commanded by Jesus to every nation the disciples went into. In the book of acts we readthat the gentitles were Baptized in the Holy Ghost and then got baptized in water.

You said the Jews had to be shown that their religion was superseded by Christ. I agree, religion killed Jesus. However, look at this verse.

Acts 10:47 KJV
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Peter said that they(the gentiles) had received the Holy Ghost as well as we (the group of Jews with Him)

These Jews had the Holy Ghost, If what you say was true then they would've known better and would've told Peter that that wasn't necessary since they had been baptized with the Holy Ghost already and water baptism was only a symbol of the Holy Ghost Baptism.

But they didn't forbid him, or say anything to turn him from that. Because they knew it was a commandment!

Jesus was baptized, The disciples were Baptized. The Jews got baptized; the gentiles got Baptized, we read also about an Ethiopian man getting baptized! They all wanted to be like Christ and fulfill all righteousness.

Sis, we must not take History over the Word of God. History may say that
Water Baptism was only for a certain time period but what about the Scripture where it says Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever?

History says that Noah was a drunk who sold Beer, history says that Jesus was a Homosexual and also had an affair with Mary Magdalene. History says that the bones of Jesus were discovered a couple years ago.

This is why Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God.

History may say many things but on Judgement day we will be judged by the Word of God. That is why we must study to shew ourselves approved unto God. We read in the Word that the Church continued in these instructions after Christ ascended and after the Holy Ghost came. We do not read in the Scripture where these are called symbols are dismissed as no longer needed.

If the Bible says it as Christians we must believe it.

Again, I apologize for the mix up. I felt Terrible about that. I Pray that you are doing well. Thanks again and God bless.