When to find a different church to attend?

Do you know if there has been a thread on this topic before?Can anyone list 'warning signs' in a church that might result in looking for a different church to attend?I know no church is perfect, but what are some good signs and bad signs of a church to fellowship at? I desperately want to fellowship with True Believers, but lack the discernment to know how to process through the junk, both emotional and doctrinal at the church I attend.Thanks for your thoughts, prayers and ideas.Doug

A friend once told me that you can learn alot about a church by the people it produces! If you see truly godly and spiritual people there then i would be reluctant to leave! Judge by their fruits! Not just their activities! I trust this helps

You might ask how many people are getting saved/baptized. If none, you might want to look where they are - I would say God's Word is there!Blessings, Jack

"When to find a different church to attend?"When all they expect from you is that you simply attend. No relationship, no investment in you. If you aren't being invested in and taught the apostles' doctrine....well....it it really the church?? You be the judge.You should look at the book of Acts for a template of what to expect. (generally)

As I read through this thread, I got thinking, we in our western, Christianized society entertain questions that would never enter the minds of many Christians in the world. We have become accustomed to having our own choices about a lot of things - including the choice of church. I'm not convinced that having a question about church choice is a reality for most believers around the world. What if only one church exists in a community? What if one doesn't have a means to travel a distance to a better church? Or for some other reason one doesn't have the freedom to choose? Perhaps some simply cannot leave their families and go somewhere else alone. What might God's choice be? Maybe he wants to put us in a "dark" church just so that we can be a light for him. Maybe he wants to put us in a situation that "does nothing for us" because he wants us to learn to rely on HIM, and not on the church. Maybe he puts us among very fallen people in order to teach us grace, and love for the sinner. Maybe he wants us to be an intercessor for the people there. Four years ago God divinely led me to a church that would not meet any of the above criteria - not by a long shot. If I had the choice I would NEVER have picked that one. However, God's purposes for me to be there are all of the above mentioned reasons, and I am being blessed. In spite of the many strongholds, I keep on seeing the Spirit flicker here and there. Since God placed me there, I know that it is he who will lead me out when it's time.I have come to believe that our western church has become a big mission field - filled with people who need the Lord and don't know it. If God called us to the foreign mission field, he would not likely give us much choice. We would not expect to be sent to a place that is free from strongholds, and filled with many strong churches. And, when on the field, we would not hesitate from building relationships with the people there, even though they don't have our values. Shouldn't church involvement be the same?I know that there are times when we must "shake the dust off our feet" and go. But God may not wish to send us somewhere better - where we can get "fed" and enjoy sweet fellowship, but somewhere (church or otherwise) where we can grow up, break off our childish human dependencies, and grow into maturity. I have come to believe that a bad church, in itself, is not a reason to leave, and a good church, in itself, is not a reason to stay. God is our boss, and we bloom where he plants us. Diane

Hey all,I've been reading Sermonindex for a while now, but this is my first post. I have been very blessed by many writings and calls to holiness resounding throughout this forum. God has been challenging me with the narrow path of holiness and denial of self, and I am also in a church where He is teaching me to love others as He loves them, to be a light in a place where sadly there is so much darkness (world).I have learnt that God is the BOSS and we are his servants, we really don't have a choice of church, we are just his obedient children, and he puts us through his purifying fire.God bless you Di, remain in him, and take joy in the little flickers of the movement of his Spirit you see in your church!loveMarcel

I make sure any Church I attend that 99% of the people are smiling and don't look as though there going to a funeral. :-P

There are alot of churches to choose from, so I would definitely pray and fast when choosing a church (or choosing to leave a church).I attended a church for several years that at one point was a wonderful place to worship, fellowship and grow. But over time, something changed. The pastor began to preach alot of odd "prosperity" messages. He also became very much fixated on his "authority." It eventually came to a point where no one was allowed to disagree with the pastor, because the pastor "was the voice of the Lord" and "God's annointed." If someone quietly opposed something controversial that the pastor began doing, they were osticized by him (often publically). Eventually, the pastor began "kicking out" those who disagreed with him. To this pastor, just "questioning" his actions, messages or behavior was a "sin." What was so perplexing was how quickly this man fell from being a very humble man of God into a prosperity preaching man with an "authoritarian" attitude! He also began holding an attitude that, "if God is going to move in this town, it will ONLY happen in THIS church!" And the pastor was dedicated to holding a monopoly on a "move of God" in the town. It crushed the hearts of many who attended the church. After a while, the pastor allowed alot of very questionable men to come and preach. When someone disagreed with them, the pastor told them to leave the church. Ironically, the pastor would sometimes change his position and attitude toward some of the guest preachers or their doctrine. He would quietly not invite them back. This was of little solace to those who were earlier forced out of the church due to holding the same beliefs.This pastor became a very dangerous man. The church itself is now a haven for gossip -- directed at anyone who couldn't line up with the pastor's "vision" for the church. Without any voice of opposition, the pastor now has free reign to do as he wishes. It is both very sad -- and very frightening! Money, time, and effort are often spent on very ridiculous ideas. And when they fail, the pastor blames the failure on others. The church eventually went through several "phases" of modern "neo-charasmatic" practices and doctrines. The church experienced Holy Laughter (for several months until it got "old"), Gold Dust & Fillings (for several months until it got "old"), and many other neo-charasmatic experiences. Preachers would come with conflicting accounts of heavenly visits (no two were alike) and other miraculous events. One evangelist even claimed that a 12-foot tall owl spoke to him saying, "Whoooooo do you think you are? I have had this town too long. Whooooooo are you to oppose me?" In this south-Texas town, many of the locals tell ghost-stories about the evil that is associated with owls. Thus, many people were gullible enough to never question the stories told by preachers like this (or question the fact that there are no such thing as 12-foot owls).I stayed at the church for several seasons, believing that God could restore that pastor to the man he was before. I figured that one day, he would notice that he had lost something (like Samson's hair and strength), and he would eventually turn into the man I knew he was. Besides, many of his motives seemed very pure. He really seemed to care about the lost, and he constantly preached that our church should do more to win the lost. He would talk about visions of standing-room-only crowds. As time went by, however, I fear that this became his motivation -- a huge, outwardly "vibrant" church.I sadly left the church. But now, I am actually glad that I did. I now attend a church where the pastor is a very humble servant of the Lord, who could care less about being respected as a "great" man of God. Instead, he is concerned with shepherding the flock, encouraging the troubled, winning the lost, and discipling the congregation. My new pastor encourages the elders of the Church to voice their ideas and concern about the affairs of the church. He tells them that he is eager to listen to them share whatever is on their heart. He tells the congregation to not take his word like a blank check, but to be like the "Bereans" -- and search the scripture to make sure what he says is true. Hopefully, my former church will realize the truth that "in the multitude of advisors, a king is made safe." Unfortunately, it appears that the pastor has kicked out nearly everyone who had any type of thought contrary to those he held dear. Like the builders of Babel -- they are accomplishing quite a bit. But it doesn't seem to be the type of unity that the Lord desires.

The biggest warning sign (i think) would be in the preaching. When hell and sin is not mentioned, I would say its time to leave. Also If hell and sin is mentioned make sure its in a right spirit. You want preaching that convicts not condemns.

MrBillPro said, I make sure any Church I attend that 99% of the people are smiling and don't look as though there going to a funeral. MrBillPro, I know just the church for you! In this church 99% of the people are sad and depressed, including the minister. They have had years of troubled leadership and lost two-thirds of their congregation – many of them good workers. Now they feel trapped. Because you value a joyful and positive spirit in a church, you would be the perfect member for this church. Why, you could get to know the people, empathize with their pain, reaffirm them, and give them hope in Christ. Your positive energy would rub off on them for sure. Then the church would not be so sad anymore, and you would have even more joy in your own heart because God used you to contribute to the change of atmosphere. (You might think I’m just kidding, but really, I’m sharing a real story. It has happened)Diane

Dear Diane, I sort of agree with what you're saying. I believe that if we are true followers of Christ, we will have times of terrible saddness. The heart of God is greived for the conditoin of His Church and for a dead and dying world. We ask for His heart and I believe His heart is heavy for His chuch, but when we come together on Sunday shouldn't we be glad?? Shouldn't we be rejoicing because HE IS! Because He has risen and we are redeemed because of His blood. Because the King of kings has not only adopted us into His kingdom, but also died for us so that we may live. I think that there is much to be sad or even depressed about concerning the church, but of what concequence is that in light of who is HE is??? We need to worship Him and be glad no matter what is going on around us. I think we have a poor testimony to the world if we can't even be happy on Sunday...

I've noticed that in Revelation 2-3, only 2 of the 7 churches named were deemed faithful. The rest had some problems... very serious ones at that, yet the Lord never called one person out of those churches to go to the one next door. Rather, He called them to repent.

For anyone who is considering leaving their church please listen to sermon titled "run for your life" by Carter Conlon. It's on page 4. If I had any computer skills whatsoever, I would have posted the link for you. :-?

When hell and sin is not mentioned, I would say its time to leave. I suspect that if your advice was taken by everyone, the vast majority of the churches would have to shut down. We live in times, like ancient Israel, when many only want “ear tickling” messages, and there are plenty willing to give it. Over the past several years, I’ve heard a lot of complaints about weak sermons; and I’ve been seeing people hop from one church to another in search of “good” preaching. It was happening with such regularity that, after a while, when someone complained about the preaching, I gave them good Christian books, sent them web links, or, lately, I put them onto SI. If they don’t seem to latch on to the vast wealth of available resources, then I suspect that they only want the security of church more than they want good convicting preaching. Maybe they don’t WANT to grow spiritually in Christ. In our society, anyone who WANTS to learn God’s ways can find messages/books/bibles easily, and without much cost. They don’t need to depend on the weekly sermon in their church (which is not enough to sustain anyone). And above all, they can seek the Lord to convict them, to teach them and guide them by the Spirit. And he can lead them to healthy fellowship. Well, that's the way it seemed to happen to me. ______________________Chris, it looks like you’ve had to face some painful realities about church life. I’ve been in a similar situation. Those experiences shocked me into truths that I never wanted to see – about human nature, including myself. I must admit that it took those troubles to bring me to God, falling on my face, confessing my own many sins, including my idolatrous reliance on church and on man, my lack of faith, and much more. But through it all I found God, like I had never known him, and I'm very excited about that. Perhaps the lesson is this: When church goes bad, first seek what God is doing within us through the troubles, then let him lead us out in his time, if that is his will. He is much more interested in our well-being and our growth than we could ever be. "Run for your Life" by Colon Carterhttps://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1724Diane

I've noticed that in Revelation 2-3, only 2 of the 7 churches named were deemed faithful. The rest had some problems... very serious ones at that, yet the Lord never called one person out of those churches to go to the one next door. Rather, He called them to repent. When I read those passages in Rev. 2-3, I understand Jesus to be speaking to an 'entity'-----the living, breathing Body of Christ, made up of many members found in various locations within the cities specified. He was not addressing a particular "church" building. He was in actuality speaking to EACH member of the CHURCH(the living entity) in the locations specified....I think with many who have eyes to see the current state of the "church" and choose to stay in that church 'system', it appears that the intent is really not to "fit in", but to bring about change in those who are walking in deception and worldliness or even be a tool to bring about true conversion from those who falsely profess to know Christ. I understand the "missionary within a church" mentality. I respect that, but in the same breath, I have to wonder if this is found out by leadership, that the underlying motive is interaction/discipleship meant to "change" the church, would such leadership be welcoming to those believers? I tend not to think so. I personally am not yet comfortable with this missionary mindset for myself---maybe I need a whole lot more growth, which I do not doubt. It certainly does seem to me that one has to be definitely called and equipped into such a ministry of evangelism/missions WITHIN the church system.Where I struggle is here: I still can't discount the many scriptures which call us not to partake in the 'works of darkness', fellowshipping with those who call themselves "brother" yet abide in sin or teach others to sin or perpetrate false doctrine......I believe my family was pulled/or forced, however one wants to look at it, from the organized church system for a reason. Just as we were 'separated' in our infancy in Christ from our worldly friends-----to protect us and give us a chance to grow in Him unemcumbered, so it is with many of us in the church now.I feel that many were pulled out so that "religion" can be purged out as well as the worldliness that has crept in. In order to grow further in Him, there needs to be purging ----when we are first born again, lots of worldliness(in mind and body)needs to be exposed, repented of and forsaken. It is hard for that to happen unless a "separation" takes place. So it is for many of us concerning "religion".......we have been pulled out for more purging---of worldliness that has been embraced by the church 'system'(and ourselves) as well as a purging of'religion' devoid of God's Spirit and heart. There is a "fleshliness" in the Western church and I believe it is the Lord's desire to purge out that "fleshliness" and replace it with a heart that is aligned with His, in action and in eternal purpose .......Instead of us proclaiming we are ordering our own steps and the Lord will bless them, the Lord desires us to seek HIS FACE and then we can confidently know His blessings are upon us, through adversity and good times. Just my thoughts. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

Can anyone list 'warning signs' in a church that might result in looking for a different church to attend?Search "Spiritual Abuse" on the web. http://www.spiritualabuse.org/introduction.htmlhttp://www.apologeticsindex.org/a04.htmlone has to be definitely called and equipped into such a ministry of evangelism/missions WITHIN the church system.So true! We walk on dangerous ground in our churches. We can get pulled off track so easily by stray teaching and by our own desires for man's approval and the pleasures and security of religion. There are always subversive powers, and negative spiritual forces at work in a church, because it is a spiritual setting. We need to be under the authority of the Spirit, separated for him, died to self, and under his protection. (regardless where we are) My present church has a somewhat liberal element to it, but yet I sense a greater freedom to serve Christ than I did in my past evangelical churches. It is relatively free from the hauty spirit, and contolling behaviors that I've experienced in the past. Nevertheless, soon after I took a music minister position there, the Lord spoke in a dream, saying, "They like you, but they don't like the Jesus in you." Indeed, Jesus had the same problem. He was very careful about his disclosure in order to fulfill God's timing and purposes. I know that if I were to make bold public statements about my "calling", if I were to loudly denounce the evils that I see, I would be shown the door in a flash. That may happen eventually, but, let it be in God's timing. I trust that by this time in my life, God has subdued my overly ambitious evangelistic drive and craving to CHANGE people. My calling is not to CHANGE anyone, but to give a taste of the sweetness of Christ,and reveal the need to make him Lord, simply through my relationships with the people, and small, quiet "words". In the end the people will be held accountable for their response to the Jesus within me, and I will be held accountable for how I fulfilled my responsibility to God. Diane

What kind of Gospel is being preached? Do they hold the Blood of Jesus in high esteem? Is repentance/holiness/purity expected or optional? Are excuses made for sinful behavior like 'we all sin, so we must be forgiving' with no desire or attempt made by the offender to seek reconciliation with God on His terms? This may tell you more then anything else. Blessings,Ginnyrose

What kind of Gospel is being preached? Do they hold the Blood of Jesus in high esteem? Is repentance/holiness/purity expected or optional? Are excuses made for sinful behavior like 'we all sin, so we must be forgiving' with no desire or attempt made by the offender to seek reconciliation with God on His termsAmen, Amen! We need to escape the antinomianism - anything-goes philosophy of our day However, Even if these qualities are somewhat present in a church, God may very well be saying to the people, "You lack one thing, go sell what you have and give to the poor", or he may be saying, "YOU HAVE LOST YOUR FIRST LOVE" I wonder, how one can honestly assess such virtues that you mention without being blinded to some extent by one's own log in the eye, or risking judgments from a surface observation. And even if we did happen to find this ideal church where purity and holiness prevail, free from Biblical distortions, (in our opinion, of course) can it ever stay that way? People have tried to keep their church "pure" for centuries and it has caused nothing but trouble - division, splits, hypocrisy, judging etc etc. Now to another issue: We may be wanting to get out of a church for selfish reasons - because we do not like the "way people treat us". The root may be pride, unwillingness to submit to God's refining process. We may not like being offended, corrected, put down, neglected, misjudged. We may desire to be in a church where everyone likes us and looks up to us, and follows our suggestions, and agrees with us. Finding a new church in order to escape relational tensions will not serve God's purposes, and we will soon find ourselves running into similar "problems" - because we have taken our problem with us. Besides that, God has a way of bringing the same kind of people into our lives in order to mature us. I suspect that most people desire a church that has the same blind spots that they have. "That's why birds of a feather gather together." Cindy pointed out, that there is a time when God calls his own out of a religous institution in order to separate us (ie our hearts) I feel that many were pulled out so that "religion" can be purged out as well as the worldliness that has crept in. In order to grow further in Him, there needs to be purging ----when we are first born again, lots of worldliness(in mind and body)needs to be exposed, repented of and forsaken. It is hard for that to happen unless a "separation" takes place.In my case, I was so reliant on the church (man) (unconsciously) that I had to be separated out so that I could learn to trust God instead, and be conformed to HIS image, not the image of the church. Maybe that's why God put me in "strange territory" (outside my usual affiliation)Cindy's word of caution:I understand the "missionary within a church" mentality. I respect that, but in the same breath, I have to wonder if this is found out by leadership, that the underlying motive is interaction/discipleship meant to "change" the church, would such leadership be welcoming to those believers? I tend not to think soIn other words, Quarantine the "alien" in our midst!! It seems to me like the liberal churches are more "tolerant", and maybe that's why I'm there.One more thought:I do believe that God also calls his own out when he wants to bring his judgment - purifying fires - on the church. That has been a personal experience. If we are not under the authority of the Lord, we ourselves will not be able to sense that calling, and we ourselves will also come under the judgment.After all these ramblings, one thing speaks to me: I must submit my entire life to God, and learn to follow him, listen to HIS voice, and do what he says, even if it goes against the grain of my own thinking. God please do what it takes to bring me to that place in my heart. Diane

Diane, I appreciate your imput. The purity I am referring to has to do with how do we deal with sin? Is known sin swept under the carpet, ignored with the excuse that 'we all sin'? The prevailing sins today in the church are sexual sins. I call them prevailing because they are so obvious. People know they are wrong but what is done about it? It appears to me the people feel overwhelmed with it that they think there is nothing to be dome about it. About sexual sins: Paul says "let this not be once named among you." (Ephesians 5:3) Ouch! How often is it among churches? In our church purity is expected and immorality dealt with when and if it occurs. Presently we have a 54 YO brother who is in a Christian 'rehab' to deal with sexual addictions. He has a history of failures - he would 'repent' only to relapse again - and he was on the brink of being excommunicated until he surrendered to the LORD and realized he needed help. About tolorating sin in the church, ll Corintians 6; 14-18 deals with that issue. Sin contaminates. It is like leaven in which only a tiny amount can infect the entire lump. If nothing else it hardens us to sins and its awfulness. Having said all this, how do I keep myself pure? The only way is to walk with the LORD constantly, allow his Spirit to fill me and be obedient to it. If this is a tall order, ask the LORD - only if you are sincere - to teach you to be able to recognize his voice. I promise you if you do that, you will find your Christian life assuming a very interesting adventure. Rest assured, I need the LORD desperately. I cannot live for Him without his mercy and enabling grace. Blessings,Ginnyrose

Now I understand what you are saying. I can sure appreciate the gravity of a church situation where sexual sin is not confronted - esp when it is being committed within leadership or by a high-standing person, and they all want to hide it (to protect their image or whatever). They can use their power to threaten anyone who knows about it. So, out of fear, no one wants to be the one who speaks out, hoping it will just go away. Really, everyone is part of the problem. They whole Body hurts. Yes, that would likely be a time to leave a church, because there is nothing one can do. There can be no restitution with God and fellow man so long as there is denial. I am aware of this very type of situation, and it was the one who knew about the sin and who called it, who eventually had to leave, for her own protection. She became victimized, accused, etc etc, by those who were unwilling to acknowlede the sin. Fools mock making amends for sin Prov. 14:9Diane

Lahry, I love your analogy of drinking a glass of water with a 'little' dirt in it! But Brother, we do it all the time, if we are not careful!! How often do we make excuses for sin? We don't want to see these nice people go to hell....Yet the kindest thing we can do is lovingly remind them of how Jesus can deliver them IF they would only submit to his cleansing. But there is a 'dirty' word: submit. Very politically uncorrect, unless it is to the liberals.(Have you ever thought about it that while the word submit is unfashionable, everyone is submiting to something). Jesus says, "take my yoke upon you and learn of me for I am meek and lowly in heart." Is this not sweet, gentle and comforting? I think so and love it.Blessings,Ginnyrose

Diane, How tragic it is when you have immorality in the church leadership. From what you said, it is no doubt better to leave if it is ignored. QUOTE:Yes, that would likely be a time to leave a church, because there is nothing one can do. There can be no restitution with God and fellow man so long as there is denial. This is so true. It takes so much divine grace and power to deal with such situations and not allowing it to embitter us. One of the best things we can do is to remember that God knows all about it and he will not let these experiences go 'to waste'. They can teach us something if we are open to it. Some are so bad we wonder, and ask all kinds of questions. God is not obligated to answer them according to our time frame but He will be with us when we submit to his leadership. Then in following Him these answers may/will come in time. Blessings to you, Diane.Ginnyrose

Good advice I was given, once, was that if I 'waited' I would become certain of God's word on the situation in question. This was true in practice but it can be hard to be obedient by not doing what comes to mind first.Oh the test of patience... so totally true, great words sister.