Megachurch Leader Claims ‘Divine Wind’ Moved Him to Fully Accept Members Practicing Homosexuality

NASHVILLE ”“ An apostate pastor in the Bible Belt who leads the congregation that country star Carrie Underwood attends recently announced from the pulpit that not only can practicing homosexuals be members, but those in sexual sin can now fully serve in his church and will be allowed to "marry” at the facility.

"Our position that these siblings of ours, other than heterosexual, … cannot have the full privileges of membership, but only partial membership, has changed,” Stan Mitchell of GracePointe Church in Franklin, Tennessee announced earlier this month as some clapped and others sat silently in disapproval.

"Full privileges are extended now to you with the same expectations of faithfulness, sobriety, holiness, wholeness, fidelity, godliness, skill, and willingness. That is expected of all,” he continued. "Full membership means being able to serve in leadership and give all of your gifts and to receive all the sacraments; not only communion and baptism, but child dedication and marriage.”

Mitchell, 46, claims that God moved upon him three years ago to begin rethinking his position on inclusion in the congregation. Heretofore, GracePointe had allowed those who identify as homosexuals to attend the services, but drew the line at serving in leadership positions or being "married” by the leadership.

- See more at: http://christiannews.net/2015/01/30/megachurch-leader-claims-divine-wind-moved-him-to-fully-accept-members-practicing-homosexuality/#sthash.PovRBCDC.dpuf

We all saw this coming and it will keep coming.

Pentecostal denominations and churches are rife with homosexuals. We just have a lot of them. They are in their closets or barely so in many cases. But, the expressiveness of our churches and the abandonment of holiness teaching and culture is like a big ol' pretty flower to them. Pretty soon the American "evangelical" church will be as crazy over gays as we are already about everything else in the world order of things. "Divine wind" or whatever other spiritual nickname we give to the spirit of the age and our own lusts will keep leading us down this path.

This is what dominionism and amillenialism produces, too, by the way. The idea that the church will Christianize he world? Gays, divine wind and slouching to Sodom is that unfolding. If Jesus doesn't come soon, the church is going to save the world from Him.

this is what dominionism and amillenialism produces, too, by the way.

Actually after rereading your statement and thinking about it more I can see how you would make that connection with Postmil.

by LoveMeekHope

I find the article a little rude. With words like, "An apostate pastor" and quoting 'marry' 'married' just because it's a homosexual union.

Just because a brother/sister may have different views, even 'critical beliefs' that doesn't entitle a believer to be rude to them. We are to love them, even if they die in their sin. We are to be a model to them.

Not name call. Not degrade. Not demean.

I believe the church is no longer in 'outreach mode'. They aren't seeking members. They aren't building relationships with unbelievers. They instead are being like the Pharisee in the story in Luke 18:9-14.

Sure, believers will 'fall away' but let's not be rude. Let's not fight fire with fire.

Let's agree to disagree. Let's shake the dust off. Let's stop taking these battles personally and be mature in Christ by demonstrating love.

P.S. I think Christian journalists should stop spinning this hate. Christians have a call to love. To show that Christ is quick to forgive, no matter how much sin someone is in.

Great Post! Jesus loves all of us filthy rags right? why should we "hate on" anyone, aren't we called to be like Jesus?

Quote from article: We lost not only those who could bear the pain of partial inclusion no longer, we lost other brothers and sisters who were on the other side, who so deeply believed they knew God’s heart on this matter … as being opposed to any expression of mutual human sexuality other than theirs,” he stated before those gathered.

He misses the point those "opposed to any expression of mutual human sexuality" who left, left not because of their own viewpoint, but because the word of God which states we should not practice such ungodliness.

Just glad to see he has lost the status of mega church - his current attendance is down to 482, hopefully he will go financially bankrupt soon, as he certainly has proved he is spiritually bankrupt.

Edit:spelling

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls himself a Christian who is sexually immoral, or greedy, or an idolater, or verbally abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. 1 Corinthians 5:11

Loving someone and associating with them is two different things, but it does say if they call themselves a Christian, if their not a Christian, then what? Lots of folks in the Church that are not Christians.

I find the article a little rude. With words like, "An apostate pastor" and quoting 'marry' 'married' just because it's a homosexual union.

It's like saying you can be a fornicator or adulterer or drug addict and be included in membership and enjoy the privileges that come with that. Jesus said unless you repent you will perish in your sins. You cannot cling to those sins and still think you are saved, period.

Just because a brother/sister may have different views, even 'critical beliefs' that doesn't entitle a believer to be rude to them. We are to love them, even if they die in their sin. We are to be a model to them.

It's interesting to note how this "pastor" keeps using the word "conversation" throughout his presentation. It's a key word among emergent false teachers and "Christians". They want us to be open to conversation, in hopes that we'll eventually be open to changing our views about sexuality and other issues.

I believe the church is no longer in 'outreach mode'. They aren't seeking members. They aren't building relationships with unbelievers. They instead are being like the Pharisee in the story in Luke 18:9-14.

Sure, believers will 'fall away' but let's not be rude. Let's not fight fire with fire.

Let's agree to disagree. Let's shake the dust off. Let's stop taking these battles personally and be mature in Christ by demonstrating love.

P.S. I think Christian journalists should stop spinning this hate. Christians have a call to love. To show that Christ is quick to forgive, no matter how much sin someone is in.

Never fails, the same ole tactic of trying to label one a Pharisee when one preaches the truth of the Word of God without compromise, when one calls a spade a spade as did OT prophets, John the Baptist and our Lord and His disciples. Instead they want soothing messages of so called "love" and "unity" and "tolerance" and "acceptance" of all. "Can't we all just get along and sing koombaya?" they say.

"For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light." 15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, 16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.-Ephesians 5:5-16

Divine wind? Maybe confusion with breaking wind?

When a man preaches the Word of God, he does not have authority to reinterpret it to his own opinions of what it should say. Few rules of preaching are more basic than this.

The world's perspective is that love involves sex. God's perspective is that love seeks the highest and best for the one loved- (and occasionally involves sex- under tight parameters!). Adultery and fornication will never be acceptable in His presence, no matter how good the spin. But they keep trying, do they not??

Sounds like in this case, the kingdom is crumbling under the weight of it's own error. Believers will be wounded but find fellowship in other churches, the blind and unrepentant ones will wither and slither.

The Word of God will stand ready to save those who truly seek Him.

Just glad to see he has lost the status of mega church - his current attendance is down to 482, hopefully he will go financially bankrupt soon, as he certainly has proved he is spiritually bankrupt.

Amen. We are taught to hate false teaching and desire it's complete extermination and pray for that and work toward that as much as possible in a biblical way. Paul said concerning false teachers, "I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!"-Galatians 5:12. The Greek word translated as "cut themselves off"(apokopto) literally means "amputate" or "castrate". In the context of Paul's teaching in Galatians against circumcision it means to castrate. Paul is saying he wishes the false teachers would castrate themselves. Doesn't sound too nice or lovable, does it?

We are to speak the truth in love and with boldness and without compromise. True love warns of impending danger.

Quote: Why would you ever wish that upon anyone?

He won't be destroyed if he goes broke and ends up bankrupt your twisting what I said... Bankruptcy is not destruction... Being thrown in the fiery pit of hell is destruction...

Quote: Christ never, ever, ever, wished destruction upon anyone.

Bankruptcy is not destruction. Bankruptcy would be classed as suffering.

Quote: Murrcolr, I encourage you, see the way of Christ.

The way of Christ... Scripture say Christ learned obedience from what he suffered Heb 5:8.

Could you agree with me that bankruptcy would be classed as suffering rather than destruction, would it be possible that in that suffering he may see the error of his way and turn back to God and the fruit of righteousness would be there for all to see in his life?

Or have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?

My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.

It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Heb 12: 5-11

Edit: spelling

I noticed that someone mentioned that the attendance of his congregation had dwindled. That is both good news and interesting.

A few years ago, I was reading an article about certain congregations that suddenly made a decision to reject the Biblical views on sexuality and marriage. One thing that they all had in common: They were struggling with membership and, consequently, people to finance the "church."

The previous article that I read mentioned that most of the longtime members abandoned the church. The ministers who were interviewed said that they knew that this would happen; but, they trusted that new members would "replace" them. This was exactly what happened.

Most of the new members and attendees were either homosexuals or what the article called "social liberals" who actively seek change when it comes to "society's perception of homosexuality."

After reading that article, it made me think of what would cause a "minister" to abandon what is exceptionally clear from the Word of God and begin promoting a compromised version of Christianity. After reading through this thread, the article and the original article as it appears at Time Magazine's website, I am beginning to wonder if this is a calculated decision.

Some people who are "educated" to be a minister do so as a career choice. In their minds, they may be doing this as a sacrifice for God. However, it often is done with the knowledge that this is something that they will do for a lifetime vocation. In other words, they hope to be paid like they would in any other career. This happens with many preachers. They start out young and determine that they simply want to preach the Gospel without thought to money, food, housing, etc... They are ready to go to the ends of the Earth with the message of Christ. Then, "life happens." A minister gets married. He has children. His body ages. Suddenly, the "cares of this world" become something that the minister thinks about.

The Time article mentions that church attendance was between 800-1000 members just two years ago. Another source online stated that the church "averaged" more than 1200 in 2010. There was a new property at a new location with new facilities. This probably means that there was also a mortgage and group of "full time" paid ministers. Yet, by the time the announcement was made, there was just 673 people in the congregation. That is quite a drop in attendance. The old saying that "desperate times call for desperate measures" is often embraced by people who don't receive their direction from the Lord.

Like many urban areas, there are quite a few social activists in the Nashville area. While I can't say for certain, but I wonder if the minister felt this evil "wind" with the understanding that it might weed out longtime members that he just didn't care for but eventually attract young "activists" who would show up and, consequently, support the "church" and its group of remaining pastors. I also wonder how Time Magazine caught "wind" of this "wind." Did the minister contact them with the hope of gaining publicity?

The article emphasized the giving and how it had shrunk. Strangely enough, the article called the church a "megachurch" (which seems a bit of a stretch given the fact that attendance was already down to 673 on the day of the announcement -- which another article stated was higher than it had been in previous weeks). Church attendance has dropped considerably in the weeks that followed. I can't help but wonder if the minister had hoped that the church would become a haven for homosexuals who are looking into "spiritual" matters along with social liberals and activists.

Regardless, I still can't help but wonder if the minister is doing this -- openly compromising the clear teachings of the Christian faith -- for the sake of a salary, name recognition or financial security. Even if he is doing this out of some sort of "wind" that makes him concerned for homosexuals, it still makes you wonder why that concern outweighs what is undeniably clear from the New Testament. How does one reason to continue as a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ when they clearly abandon part of the truths contained in the Word of God?

LoveMeekHope quote: Christ never, ever, ever, wished suffering upon anyone.

We can go two ways here.

I could name this mega-pastor a brother or a false prophet.

In the last post you could say I was speaking as him being a brother - hoping that he would suffer, so that he would turn from his wicked ways so that the fruit of righteousness would once again flourish in his life.

The Father through his love for him will cause him suffer so he learns obedience.

If he is classed as false teacher: then he brings destruction on himself.

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves. 2 Peter 2:1.

If he is a false teacher - then he is spring without water a mist driven by a whirlwind and the gloom of darkness has been reserved for him.

I think Christian journalists should stop spinning this hate. Christians have a call to love. To show that Christ is quick to forgive, no matter how much sin someone is in

So it's not rude for you to call the writer of this article a man who "spins hate?"

Sister, may I ask you a question, do you automatically hate someone because you disagree with their view? If your answer is no, then why do you assume that this writer does?

In Christ,

Oh my. Why would you ever wish that upon anyone? Why? Christ never, ever, ever, wished destruction upon anyone. He wants them to change their ways. Wishing destruction upon someone isn't the way of Christ. We pray for those that persecute us. We bless them. If they are wicked/depraved, we plead the mercy/grace/love of God for their lives. Murrcolr, I encourage you, see the way of Christ.

It's sad that some people in this thread rationalize rudeness.

I find it difficult to believe that Christians find it okay to be rude to other people's beliefs and lifestyles.

"If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!"-1Cor.16:22

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."-Galatians 1:8-9

The word translated "accursed"(anathema) means divine condemnation, not just discipline.

Was Paul being unchristian in stating things like that? No, Paul was jealous for the glory of God and hated when God's name was blasphemed, just like our Lord when He turned over the merchants' tables at the temple.

There certainly is a place for righteous indignation among God's people.

This is Matthew Henry's commentary's take on 1Cor.16:22:

"We sometimes need words of threatening, that we may fear. Blessed is he, says the wise man, who feareth always. Holy fear is a very good friend both to holy faith and holy living. And how much reason have all Christians to fear falling under this doom! If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema, Maran-atha. Here observe, 1. The person described, who is liable to this doom: He that loveth not the Lord Jesus Christ...he who blasphemes Christ disowns his doctrine, slights and contemns his institutions, or, through pride of human knowledge and learning, despises his revelations. It stands here as a warning to the Corinthians and a rebuke of their criminal behavior. It is an admonition to them not to be led away from the simplicity of the gospel, or those principles of it which were the great motives to purity of life, by pretenders to science, by the wisdom of the world, which would call their religion folly, and its most important doctrines absurd and ridiculous. Those men had a spite at Christ; and, if the Corinthians give ear to their seducing speeches, they were in danger of apostatizing from him. Against this he gives them here a very solemn caution. "Do not give into such conduct, if you would escape the severest vengeance." Note, Professed Christians will, by contempt of Christ, and revolt from him, bring upon themselves the most dreadful destruction...Many who have his name much in their mouths have no true love to him in their hearts, will not have him to rule over them (Lu. 19:27), no, not though they have very towering hopes of being saved by him. And none love him in truth who do not love his laws and keep his commandments. Note, There are many Christians in name who do not love Christ Jesus the Lord in sincerity. But can any thing be more criminal or provoking? What, not love the most glorious lover in the world! Him who loved us, and gave himself for us, who shed his blood for us, to testify his love to us, and that after heinous wrong and provocation! What had we a power of loving for, if we are unmoved with such love as this, and without affection to such a Saviour? But, 2. We have here the doom of the person described: "Let him be Anathema, Maran-atha, lie under the heaviest and most dreadful curse. Let him be separated from the people of God, from the favour of God, and delivered up to his final, irrevocable, and inexorable vengeance." Maran-atha is a Syriac phrase, and signifies The Lord cometh. That very Lord whom they do not love, to whom they are inwardly and really disaffected whatever outward profession they make, is coming to execute judgment. And to be exposed to his wrath, to be divided to his left hand, to be condemned by him, how dreadful! If he will destroy, who can save? Those who fall under his condemning sentence must perish, and that for ever. Note, Those who love not the Lord Jesus Christ must perish without remedy. The wrath of God abides on every one who believes not on the Son, Jn. 3:36. And true faith in Christ will evermore be productive of sincere love to him. Those who love him not cannot be believers in him."

Quote:I believe in that scripture, I believe it's totally inspired by the Holy Spirit.

You can't just pick and chose scriptures to believe as you'll be in danger of creating a false Jesus in your mind...

Look at these scriptures below.. they are the words of Jesus to a church.. and are totally inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works, and I will strike her children dead. Rev 2:21-23

1. Jesus threatens to make someone sick.
2. Jesus threatens to throw those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation (Extreme suffering)
3. Jesus to top it off threatens to strike her children dead.

Edited to remove a comment

Quote:I believe in that scripture, I believe it's totally inspired by the Holy Spirit.

You can't just pick and chose scriptures to believe as you'll be in danger of creating a false Jesus in your mind...

Look at these scriptures below.. they are the words of Jesus to a church.. and are totally inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works, and I will strike her children dead. Rev 2:21-23

1. Jesus threatens to make someone sick.
2. Jesus threatens to throw those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation (Extreme suffering)
3. Jesus to top it off threatens to strike her children dead.

Or do you want a Gentle Jesus that's meek and mild, that we will send a pink fairy dust wind to the churches...

Saw this bit of news and rejoiced... I hope these 13,000 that left get so mad they pray down a revival, that closes down this apostate church completely when everyone else repents and leaves...

More than 13,000 people have left Finland's Lutheran Church in three days in a row over gay marriage after an archbishop said he "rejoiced" that it could soon be legal.

Archbishop Kari Makinen said he "rejoiced from the bottom of his heart" on Friday at parliament's vote approving a people's petition that paves the way for a same-sex marriage law.

However, high-level Lutheran official Jukka Keskitalo said on Sunday the vote "doesn't change (the church's) idea of marriage", which remains the union between a man and a woman.

The conflicting comments managed to enrage both conservative and liberal wings of the church in the last Nordic country where gay marriage is not legal.

From Friday to Sunday more than 13,000 people quit the church in protest, according to eroakirkosta.fi, a website set up to help people leave Finland's state churches.

Quitting means they will be no longer pay church taxes, which are gathered for the Lutheran Church by the state.

"The archbishop's message was destined for liberal members of the church, but it turned against the church itself," said Petri Karisma, president of the League of Free Thinkers, which created the site.

Some 5200 people left the church on Sunday alone, the largest number in a single day in four years.

I've been reading this back and forward discussion about 'rudeness' and thinking what it really means. I mean, how do you define what is rudeness. What is rudeness to one, may be honest talk to another. There is not really any biblical definition of 'rudeness'. Probably the nearest you could come is to cause offense or be offended.

Jesus certainly offended many people with the things he said (in fact the gopsel is an offense to many). He offended the Pharisees, Herod and the disciples at times among others. When Jesus called the Pharisees 'a brood of vipers' or to Peter, 'get behind me Satan', was He being rude? They were certainly offended, even if His purpose was not to offend, but to speak the truth.

May be in the same way 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder', 'rudeness is is in the heart of the receiver'?

Quote: Jesus wasn't put on a cross because He was rude.

Do you read the same bible as me?

Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy Matt 26:65

They put him on the cross because he was rude.

Edit: spelling and to add

When homeland security comes for you, they won't say what a nice sweet patient and loving christian lets chop her head off because we are evil, No you'll be accused of being a Rude, bigoted homosexual hater and sentenced to death.

Quote: "When homeland security comes for you, they won't say what a nice sweet patient and loving christian lets chop her head off because we are evil, No you'll be accused of being a Rude, bigoted homosexual hater and sentenced to death. "

???????????

Quote: ???????????

Listen to this, should help your question.... lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7UyZYpeReY

Edited: Added the below as I didn't explain myself that well.

Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy Matt 26:65

Prior to this we see the high priest and others looking for away to kill Christ and they questioned him by asking "tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God" To which Christ replies "Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven"

At this the High Priest gets so offended he tears of his clothes and shouts "He has uttered blasphemy" as what he said in his mind was the worst sort of rudeness imaginable... and they began spitting in his face, pushing him about and hitting him with there hands...

We should expect to be treated the very same way by the anti-christ spirit through people, it will mock you, persecute you, it will lie about you, say all sorts of evil things against you. When you stand for Christ, you'll be called a hater, a bigot, a lunatic, called things we are not, like radical fundamentalists, who don't know the true way of Christ, which is of course love and tolerance and called the biggest haters of mankind in history.

If we you ears to hear - the sifting has begun, the days of purification are upon us.

Mammon wins again...temporarily. Judgment day is coming.

Quote: "No you'll be accused of being a Rude, bigoted homosexual hater and sentenced to death."

First, I think there is a lot of exaggeration to your point. But even if not, and to LMH's point, why must a Christian come across as a rude bigoted homosexual hater? Is that a given?

LoveMeekHope: the example of Jesus before the Sanhedrin.

Was an example about rudeness...

Your accusation on me is that I don't follow Christ example as I wished suffering on a Mega Church Pastor who is allowing fornicators and homosexual memebrship in his church...

Your example to me is "Lord, have mercy on them. For they do not know what they are doing" But we are not dealing with the blind unsaved - we are dealing a believer who is a the senior Pastor of a Church.. So hardly blind and not unknowing..

I Cor 5 - clearly rebukes sexual immorality within the church - the judgement - expel the immoral brother and deliver him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that he may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Now this mega church pastor is not following these instructions, so I do hope this Pastor suffers at the very hands of Satan - 1. as an example to other Pastors so they don't follow in this example of his wickedness 2. that in his suffering he may find repentance...

murrcolr wrote:
Now this mega church pastor is not following these instructions, so I do hope this Pastor suffers at the very hands of Satan - 1. as an example to other Pastors so they don't follow in this example of his wickedness 2. that in his suffering he may find repentance...

John 21.21-22 When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?” Jesus said to him, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!”

As hard a saying as this is, we are to follow Him and mind our own business. We will give an account for every word and deed down in our bodies. Beware.

Besides, if the right people were doing right according to God's will, then they would drown out these crazies but guess what, they are not being drown out. One reason they're not being drown out is most are all on christian websites talking down about them and wishing evil would befall them.

Let's follow Christ and stop looking around at the crazies riding the waves. Look to Him, who cares what everybody else is doing?!?!

James says, "Let not many of you be teachers, for they will be judged more strictly."

Jesus railed at the Pharisees about many things, one of which was about how far they would go to make a convert, and then make him a greater child of Hell than they were.

Could be that James was jotting a little note on his papyrus for later...

Those who buy into the current liberal, emergent "Christianity" oppose the preaching of repentance and other hard truths of God's Word. As Voddie Baucham has stated, they've bought into a "sissified Jesus" that only preaches the love of God and has no backbone or wrath.

LoveMeekHope, in the past you have opposed the truth of God's wrath against sin and sinners. In this thread you seem to call this so-called pastor and homosexual "Christians" brothers and sisters who simply differ in their views on sexuality.

Furthermore, you seem to imply Jesus never harshly rebuked anyone, which is clearly not true. Besides, Paul the apostle also had some strong statements against sin and false teachers. I have pointed out some of those examples and you keep mentioning Jesus and ignoring Paul. Are you among those who try to pit Jesus against Paul and vice versa?

Here’s another example of how Paul interacted with false teachers:

"Now when they had gone through the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7 who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. 8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, "O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11 And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time." And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand. 12 Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord.”-Acts 13:6-12

Or how about Peter’s interaction with Simon the sorcerer:

"But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity." 24 Then Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me." ”“Acts 8:20-24

How much more proof do you need from God's Word to show you that you are opposing the truth of God's Word in this thread? What you perceive as me being rude toward you is actually a mild rebuke out of concern for your spiritual welfare. I'll leave you in God's hand, take care.

Well said Oracio. I can sit in a garage but it does not make me a car. Be assured Jesus said the tares would grow with the wheat. And we see it plainly when people form all kinds of clubs and call them churches. God knows where the body of Christ is and where it is not. And God most certainly is a God of judgement that fact can not be denied. I tremble when I consider what God's judgement may be when this nation is permeated with so many souls shaking their fist at God's word in blatant mockery. Let every man be a liar but God's word is true. No matter how much men may seek to sanctify sin -- God promises to judge it. The good news is that judgement from God can be avoided through true repentance and falling on that Rock Jesus Christ -- Then we will have mercy and forgiveness -- But if we do not repent and wait until the Rock falls on us we will be under judgement. End of story and into eternity.

Well the reason we have to care about this issue is because of the little ones (babes in Christ) that we will cause to stumble if sin is not called sin. We would allow them to be exposed to this different gospel which has no foundation in scripture and we would be negligent in proclaiming the truth. Divine wind? Indeed! There is nothing divine in that wind -- it is the enemy coming in like a flood and the standard raised up against it is Jesus Christ and His holy word!

Sorry for not getting back sooner as, I have been praying and thinking about this.

The first thing I want to address is the word 'wish', it makes it sounds like I am using some magically charm to try and hurt the man, which I never used and is a false accusation.

The second issue being handing this man over to Satan, when thinking about this subject a memory was recalled to me about a warning I got from God... Basically I was warned about Satan was going to attack me, he was going to try and get me out God's timings, by saying your to late, your to far behind and then trying to push me out from under God's timing. If I go to soon then I will come out from under God protection and the Devil will destroy me. God then finished by saying "know tonight that you are right on time with me"

The lesson here is plainly that we must remain obedient to God regardless of what the subject is or we take ourselves out from under God's protection and hand ourselves over to Satan..

Now with my testimony (experience) may not be enough to prove this. So for the second example we must look to God's word...

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess 2:10-12

My position on the mega-church Pastor has changed from "hoping" to knowing has been given over to Satan. I come to this conclusion because of the scripture above, "he loved not the truth", he may say he love Jesus, but the truth is he loved a lie, the sexually immoral have no part in the Kingdom of God, anyone in knowing sin should not be involved in the ministry. If you are involved in sin step back from ministry and seek God to set you free, to forgive and cleanse you from that sin...

By his owns words "devine wind of revelation" that wind was the strong spirit of delusion, yes he believed a lie and a wind of delusion has been given to him, he is already given over to Satan...

Quote: As hard a saying as this is, we are to follow Him and mind our own business.

The first I agree with we are to follow him, but this minding our own business is not good Godly advice... The drug addict that lives at the bottom of the street should we mind our own business, the lost soul next door should we mind our own business...

Minding you own business, is like saying just "tolerate" what's going on, it's not different that the message we hear from the world... TOLERANCE.

Rev 2:20 But I have this against you, that you TOLERATE that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants.

Can you imagine Christ saying this to "I have this against you" what did he say you TOLERATE that woman Jezebel. I can imagine some on the people in the church speaking out about her and other's replying just mind your own business it's nothing to do with you, just focus on Jesus.

Then many years later Christ you meet and he says "this I have against you"

Consider Paul's admonition - no, this is not Paul's - it is the LORD's and he just wrote it for him.

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I went to read that chapter online, when the page came up these words in big black writing sprung out at me...

Sexual Immorality Defiles the Church

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/search=1%20Corinthians%205&version=ESV

I think I will go and find a sermon on the subject...

Jesus said this to the church at Thyatira.....

"Nevertheless I have a few things against you,
because you allow that woman Jezebel,who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols."

Jesus said he has things against those in the church, NOT because they are practicing immorality, but because they ALLOW others to teach it is OK.

I would be very concerned that any would put themselves in a position of conflict with the Lord Jesus Christ, where He is against you because you would agree with or even vote for this type of freedom! You have much more to lose here than earthly riches or lifestyle, you are in danger of losing your soul.

Quote: Jesus said he has things against those in the church, NOT because they are practicing immorality, but because they ALLOW others to teach it is OK.

Fearsome - thanks for pointing that, over the last fews days my mind is being renewed a transformation if you like is ongoing.

Quote: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

I was thinking about the church last night, how it has compromised so much with the world and bowed to down to it's standards. How some preachers are dragged on to the TV and they just squirm when confronted, with no backbone or conviction..

Then I began to imagine a church, where the Holy Spirit was tangible, that held to what Gods says with no compromise and preached the message of the Gospel strongly, a church that was full of light with men and women sold out for the cause of Christ, ones that were over-comers, they had overcome Sin in there own lives a royal priesthood, a Holy people for God's own special possession.

Then I began to imagine the stir they caused as they went out to the world, I imagined them marching out across Scotland into England, Ireland, Wales across to Europe, Africa and America to the very ends of the earth. The world would cry these people have caused trouble all over the world have now come here saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

The vision: All of Gods people, moving in all of power, reaping all of Gods harvest in all of Gods world..

Edited to add a wee bit