What God Might Say to Atheist Stephen Fry- Dr. Michael L. Brown

From the article:

"Outspoken British atheist Stephen Fry was recently asked what he would say to God if such a being really existed and he encountered him/her/it after death. His reply was passionate, eloquent, defiant and irreverent. I wonder what God might say to him.

How would the Creator respond to being characterized by a mere mortal as "utterly evil ... capricious, mean-minded, stupid" and "monstrous," among other choice descriptions?

The first error made by Fry was assuming he would be able to speak at all in God's presence, having no idea that he would suddenly encounter perfect purity, unimaginable love, absolute goodness, untainted justice, blazing truth and unadulterated light.

In a moment, he would be overwhelmed by his own sinfulness””not so much as an atheist but as a human being””his selfishness, his arrogance, his carnality and his hypocrisy.

Rather than rebuking God, he would be reproaching himself, wailing aloud, "I am so very, very sorry for who I am and what I have done. Could you possibly have mercy on a wretch like me?"

But what of the substance of his remarks? What if he could have his say with God? How would the Lord respond?

Fry was outraged that an allegedly loving and compassionate God could allow such terrible suffering among His creation, stating that he would say to the Deity, "bone cancer in children, what's that about? How dare you. How dare you create a world where there is such misery that's not our fault? It's not right. It's utterly, utterly evil."

God might say to him, "I applaud you for your moral indignation. In fact, you got it straight from Me. If you were simply the result of a freak, unguided evolutionary accident and your brain waves were just the result of neurons firing, you would have no more moral indignation than a zebra being eaten alive by lions or a fly being devoured by a spider.

"The very fact that you care and that you know that such suffering is not right is a reflection of my image in you. But in reality, you don't know the half of it. I am in constant pain because of the suffering of my creation. The cries and agony are in my ears day and night."

The rest of the article is here:

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/48173-what-god-might-say-to-atheist-stephen-fry

Quote from article: "Fry was outraged that an allegedly loving and compassionate God could allow such terrible suffering among His creation, stating that he would say to the Deity, "bone cancer in children, what's that about? How dare you. How dare you create a world where there is such misery that's not our fault? It's not right. It's utterly, utterly evil."

Can anyone here understand this objection raised by Fry, or perhaps even sympathize with it?

I can understand the objection, and while I don't agree with his conclusion, I do understand the objection. And it does not seem to me there is a truly satisfactory response, at least not a satisfactory human response.

When I first heard that Stephen Fry had made these comments about the creator God, coming very closely on the back of his very public 'marriage' to his gay partner (whom he perversely calls his 'husband'. Does that mean he calls himself the 'wife'?), it was obvious that he was just trying to justify his sinful lifestyle by denying the moral authority of God. This is a normal response from those who want to live in deliberate rebellion to their God given conscience.

The bible is clear that all men know deep down the truth that there is a God and that they are in sin, but they choose to deny the truth and sear their conscience, the result being that God hands them over to their uncleanness.

As to the question should Dr Brown comment publically on a pubic diatribe of the creator, yes he should. If Christians cannot speak the truth about God and the fate of those who oppose God, then who can? Is it self promoting of prideful to declare the truth of scripture and the words of Jesus? I think not. If it were Dr Brown's own philosophy and ideas then you could level this criticism, but not if he is declaring the truth of God as revealed in scripture.

How does one decrease and Christ increase? How does one magnify God? Surely when we speak His words and declare who He is and what He says we are magnifying the Lord! Jesus glorified His Father, how? He only spoke and did what His Father said and did.

In these days that we live we need strong voices again who will declare the righteousness of God, that men may come to repentance and be saved from their sins. If we say nothing, then sin will increase,darkness will continue to envelop all people and men's consciences will remain in the dungeons of ignorance.

The conclusion of Brown's article:

"The good news is that Stephen Fry is yet living and breathing, and where there's life, there's hope.

Let's lift up a prayer on his behalf."

I like this, don't you? It portrays a person who has not given up on Fry. Yet I wonder if God didn't - read Romans 1, but that is his prerogative, not mine to determine.

LMH, Maybe your frustration is that a lot of us cannot agree with your selective view of God and Christ. Why would you be offended at Dr Brown or anyone else for saying what he said. He was not being personally offensive for the sake of it. He was just telling it as it is. You're mistaken, in that this was a public opinion of God from Fry and therefore a public response is appropriate. I'm sure if Dr Brown was talking to Fry face to face he would speak in a different way.

Your position seems to be that the only thing we should say to unbelievers is 'God Loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life'! The fact they don't know who this God is or what his righteousness demands seems of no consequence to you.

Dr Brown we know, but we don't know LMH, name, male or female or if you live in America or in the Amazon jungle. Seems strange that you want to be heard, but want be anonomous at the same time.

Ray Comfort also responded to Mr. Fry's comments and I think Ray's response was along similar lines as Michael Brown's. Here's Ray's response:

"When Homosexual actor and author, Stephen Fry was recently asked what he would say to God if he faces Him after death, his answer was, "I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about? How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."

Let's help this atheist bolster his case against God, by broadening his argument a little. It's not only bone cancer that kills children. They also get brain, blood, and lung cancer, suffocate from asthma, die from Ebola and of heart problems. Millions of children have also died of pneumonia, diarrhea, hepatitis, tuberculosis, and a thousand and one other diseases.

Then there are the hundreds of thousands of children who have been killed in earthquakes, floods, famines, tornadoes, tsunamis, and hurricanes.

God has also let children become sex slaves and be used in pornography, have bombs strapped to them by terrorists, and allowed millions to be murdered in Nazi Germany and in hundreds of other wars.

Then there are those children who have died through Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, and the millions who are slaughtered each year through legalized abortion.

Mr. Atheist, if you really want an explanation as to why there is so much disease, endless suffering, injustice, and death, read your Bible. It will tell you that God did not create the world as it is, and it is us who are guilty of sin.

But, you're an atheist, so you don't believe God's Word or heed His sober warning of Hell. So you are stuck with what the Bible calls a willful ignorance.

One other thing. The Scriptures will also show you that there's no greater delusion of grandeur nor any greater arrogance, than for sinful man to stand in moral judgment over Almighty God. But if you remain as you are, you will find that out when you face Him."

LMH, For someone who said " Defending God is a sign of an insecure faith", you seem to be exerting a lot of energy defending your view of God!

I'm wondering LMH, are you someone we know by another name who left, but had another account name that has now become active? I could be wrong, but something seems a bit odd here, particularly when we see the sign up date and most of your posts being only recent. Added to that the anonymity. I may be wrong and if so appologise and it really dose not matter, just how it appears to me though.

I can understand the objection

Really? How so? The objection is based on the premise that unjustified evil exists. If God exists, and He is omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent, can you prove that unjustified evil exists?

You see, the argument can work both ways.

LMH, So tell me I'm wrong about my thoughts of you. Be 'Frank' with me!

I'm frustrated when the people of God think it's okay to be a rude, insensitive, and *totally* out of place. The church isn't called to judge the world.

This excuse will not relieve us of our responsibility to speak the truth to a lost world.

For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father’s house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?

"He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it."

May I encourage you to compare your own understanding of the need for public reproof of unbelievers to those of Paul.

makrothumia

Christ still spoke to the masses, whether they could comprehend it or not. All of us, at one time or another, were in darkness. Should God have left us alone in our darkness? No, Christ left his throne and came down to us! The Holy Spirit opened our hearts to the truth of His word and thank God people were and are still sharing his Word! Faith comes by hearing and hearing from the Word of God. How will the lost hear?

I think pretty much everyone here agrees that it is right to respond to a public denegegration of God in such a way as Dr Brown did. If it's in Charisma magazine then I doubt Stephen Fry will read anyway, but it willl serve to help those young Christians who may be stumbled by such things. So.......let's move on!

Getting back to TMK's original point, where he stated that he 'understood the objection' made by Fry and 'Did not think there was a satisfactory human answer'. Well God has an answer. Read Job ch. 38 to 42 and you will see how God answered Job on this issue. Dr Brown gave quite a good summary of what God says there.

Hi All
Stephen Fry was on a Programme Called "The Meaning Of Life"
with Host Gay Byrne.Its On Youtube if you type in the above.
The most important thing that came out of it is not nessacaryily the insulting words about God which is expected but the assault on freedom of speech.Basically he was saying that anyone who preached God should be stopped.This is so hyprocritical since he would not be able to speak his views except for the Judeo Christian heritage of Western Countries.
Imagine Stephen saying these things in Saudi Arabia or Iraq or Syria.I am thankful to Revelation Tv for pointing these things out in a debate on one off their programmes
Yours Staff

quote: "Getting back to TMK's original point, where he stated that he 'understood the objection' made by Fry and 'Did not think there was a satisfactory human answer'. Well God has an answer. Read Job ch. 38 to 42 and you will see how God answered Job on this issue. Dr Brown gave quite a good summary of what God says there."

I just read Job 38-42 again and it doesn't talk about problems like children with bone cancer or child sexual abuse.

I know that is not what you meant, but I don't think the statements made in those passages apply to these types of issues.

Here is the problem, as best as I can frame it:

The pat answer to the problems like I noted above is Genesis 3, i.e. that Gen. 3 resulted in these terrors. That, and the idea that if you give man free will these horrors are possible.

But you have to take one step deeper than Genesis 3- namely that God knew (or didn't He?) that man was going to sin and unleash these evils into the world. In other words, God created the *system* wherein these evil things can exist. If you truly believe that man might not have sinned, then that is another discussion.

Job 38-42, to summarize greatly, says that God can do what He wants because He is God. I agree-- God can do what He wants. The problem that some atheists have trouble with (and quite frankly Christians as well) is "why would a good and loving God create a *system* wherein children are raped and racked by horrible diseases?"

That is the question that is difficult to answer. A Christian who is mature in their faith can simply sit back and trust that God has done the right thing despite appearances. That is not an answer that is acceptable to a non-believer.

Job 38-42, to summarize greatly, says that God can do what He wants because He is God. I agree-- God can do what He wants. The problem that some atheists have trouble with (and quite frankly Christians as well) is "why would a good and loving God create a *system* wherein children are raped and racked by horrible diseases?"

That is the question that is difficult to answer. A Christian who is mature in their faith can simply sit back and trust that God has done the right thing despite appearances. That is not an answer that is acceptable to a non-believer.

Good point. That's why when it comes to preaching the gospel to the lost I believe we must trust in the power of the Holy Spirit to open darkened hearts and perform the work of regeneration that no amount of human argumentation can produce. There is definitely a place for giving reasons for the hope that lies within us but we must ultimately trust God to do His work of convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment, and of drawing those to Himself whom he has appointed to eternal life, as we read in Acts 13:48, "as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

Christians do indeed sometimes struggle with certain hard truths revealed in God's Word. I've certainly had my share of struggles and doubts at times. But eventually the Lord has always reassured me that I can, and must trust Him even when I don't understand it all. He gets us through those tough moments as we seek Him with our whole hearts.

In the final analysis I believe there is too much evidence of the goodness, mercy, patience and love of God as well as His righteousness and justice; strong evidence which points to Him being a God who can be trusted to always do the right thing.

TMK, The Job 38-42 passage was meant for you, not an unbeliever. A committed 'unbeliever' by definition would not 'believe' or receive God's word. No amount of reasoning will convince someone who (as the bible says) willingly denies the truth. Does that mean that we should not speak forth God's word? No, we are called to do this as led of God, because it is the truth and some will hear, if others won't.

I think your summary of Job 38-42 is quite simplistic. There is much more than God doing what He wants (of course He can), but it is more to show Job (and us) how small we are in comparison with Almighty God and the foolishness of thinking we can call God to account and be able to sit in judgement of God. You and I are less than a speck of dust in the whole universe. God who made the universe is outside of the universe, is greater, more powerful and infinitely bigger than the whole universe. "Who is this (man) that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" How can we possible be in a position to even begin to have enough knowledge to question God?

The book of Job may not specifically mention every disease or injustice, but it IS about suffering and injustice. Reading the whole book of Job in one sitting is a beneficial thing to do if one wants to understand what is going on and the foolishness of men (Job's counsellors) to try and give reasons for suffering and injustice. Even Job gets himself into error as this goes on and bring accusations against God, which is why we have God's response in chs.38-42. What is the outcome after God speaks to Job? It is...

"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." (Job 42:5).

This is THE key scripture of this book and sums up the whole message we should get from it. Job may have previously 'heard of God' (knew about God we could say), but NOW he says he sees Him! Obviously this does not mean physically seeing God, but he has his spiritual eyes opened to who God really is and who he (Job) is in comparison and he repents in dust and ashes.

This is what is needed, a revelation of who God really is! This will cause men to repent and believe the gospel, not clever answers to every question men may have. It is incumbent upon us who know God to preach the truth of God as revealed in His word in such a way that He is seen in all his glory, majesty, greatness and power. Then men will fall on their faces and repent before Him.

Oh, magnify the LORD with me,
And let us exalt His name together.