My cousin sent me this and I thought you all would be interested.If we could shrink the earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people, with all the existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look something like the following:There would be:57 Asians21 Europeans14 from the Western Hemisphere, both north and south8 Africans52 would be female48 would be male70 would be nonwhite30 would be white70 would be non-Christian30 would be Christian89 would be heterosexual11 would be homosexual6 people would possess 59% of the entire world's wealth and all 6 would be from the United States.80 would live in substandard housing70 would be unable to read50 would suffer from malnutrition1 would be near death; 1 would be near birth1 (yes, only 1) would have a college education1 would own a computer When one considers our world from such a compressed perspective, the need for acceptance, understanding and education becomes glaringly apparent.The following is also something to ponder...If you woke up this morning with more health than illness...you are more blessed than the million who will not survive this week. If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pangs of starvation ... you are ahead of 500 million people in the world. If you can attend a church meeting without fear of harassment, arrest, torture, or death...you are more blessed than three billion people in the world. If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on your back, a roof overhead and a place to sleep...you are richer than 70% of this world. If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, and spare change in a dish someplace you are among the top 8% of the world's wealthy. If your parents are still alive and still married ... you are very rare, even in the United States and Canada. If you can read this message, you just received a double blessing in that someone was thinking of you, and furthermore, you are more blessed than over two billion people in the world that cannot read at all.Kinda makes you appreciate all that God has done for us.Bubbaguy
perspective
>>>11 would be homosexual
This is exactly why our faith needs to be of an inclusive nature. We tend to think inside our little boxes about who God is, and what a Christian is. Interesting that 70% of the world does not fit in our boxes.Ricky
only Jesus can change this Bubba, and the problem I have with your witness is, I don't feel that you believe that.Only Jesus can change the sin and the inquities of the world.No amount of teary-eyed secular liberal do-gooders and one-worlders will EVER change the rulership of the god of this age.should we bring water to the thirsty and bread to the hungry?yes!! Both kinds of bread and water(Living and physical), but we do it in the Name of Jesus, for He is the Prince of Peace.ignore that, and you labor in vain.
Neilgin1,We should feed the poor and hungry. But we also need more tolerance of diversity. I think the point Bubbaguy was making is that we do not have the corner on ultimate knowledge, we Americans.Ricky
Neilgin1,Personally, I think that if you wear Jesus on your sleeve you will turn more people away than you help. We should work to imitate and follow after Christ and then when people ask about our beliefs we can tell them the about the saving Grace of Jesus and the Word of God.To put religion out there first an in their face is arrogant and self-proclaiming. "here sinner, I will save you"!!But this was not the point and Ricky got that.Bubbaguy
we can tell them the about the saving Grace of Jesus and the Word of God.BubbaguyYour meaning the literal Word of God? Like as the Bible says it? I am curious how do you witness to people since you do not agree that the Bible is literal?
I am curious how do you witness to people since you do not agree that the Bible is literal? PreachParsy,My brother, some of it is literal, some of it is allegorical. Where science has seemed to contradict the Bible, we know those parts are allegorical. Creation is a great example. Evolution has proven that the creation story was allegorical. Much like a parable.Most of the Bible is literal. But even you would agree that most of the book of the Revelation is allegorical, correct?Ricky
Parsly,I don't want to divert this thread to another long discussion on the inerrancy and literalness of the Bible. That said, my point is not that the Bible is unreliable, because the writers did speak from conviction of the Truth of God as they received it. It is interpretation that we disagree upon.Moreover there are many who work to bring others to Jesus that do not believe in a literal Genesis. They keep the focus on what is important; the saving Grace of God.I also think you are placing demands upon God when you require a literal Bible. God in a box!!?? It's just not that simple.The important thing to know is that we are hugely blessed and have a duty to share this with others. God will make your openings to bring people to Him. Don't force it.Bub
I'm not even concerned about "americans" or non-americans, ultimate knowledge is this:Jesus Christ and Him crucified.Has nothing to do with politics, nor north-south resource inequities, it has to do with the dividing line between Light and darkness.The other day, did you see that picture of a Togo policeman kicking a suspected looter in the head?we could say that the recent unrest in Togo is the fruit of a neo-colonist system unraveling, I say it's a manifestation of a world that lacks the Love of Christ.I ask you this next question, not in a spirit of meanness, or churlishness, but of exhortation, do you right now, work to feed the poor in the community that God has you in? Feed them with both physical food and the Living Food of Christ?
religion kills, I'm not into religion.I'm a follower of Jesus, Lamb of God.I stay away from religion.Nor do I wear my Lord on my sleeve or wrap Him in the flag of my homeland.I just wanna love Him, be available to and for Him, and God willing, be used as an instrument of revival.didnt mean offense Bubba, but its rather opague as to what you actually believe in and on. Whether or not you are a follower of Christ is unknown to me.
I believe the God lead and conditioned man or woman will do both. Not at the same time though. Sometimes we love them in to the kingdom by our lives, sometimes its by the preaching of the word, a tract, a smile, a kind word, a gentle answer, a joke. Thinking outside of the box to me is being real in life and being a servant. But there are times that God calls some to speak from street cornors and some to go and compell (use strong arguementative words) them to come in, All in all we are to be lead of the Holy Spirit and that conditioned on obedience to the Word of God. BTW enjoyed your opening post----very insightful----passing it on to some minister friends of mine. Bro. Daryl
I ask you this next question, not in a spirit of meanness, or churlishness, but of exhortation, do you right now, work to feed the poor in the community that God has you in? Feed them with both physical food and the Living Food of Christ?Actually I work for 3 socially conscience charities. One full time on salary through the Unitarian Church.Ricky
Thank you for that answer, and may God use you to give the Living Bread of Christ to a dying world. The road is very very narrow, and the gate is Jesus, dear brother. I pray for myself tonight, that I feel how deep and wide the Love of Christ is, and I pray that for you too.I exhort you to stay with the Full Gospel, don't be fooled by fleshly twists on the New Wine of Christ. God bless you Ricky.
Gosh. Hope I can get this thing to work. I'm not very computer savvy.If the stats claim that 11 people of 100 would be homosexual, then the only thing one can conclude is that they're faulty. Probably using the old Kinsey percentages from 1948. The actual numbers would be more like 1-3 out of 100.On another note, it's very dangerous to be ashamed of Christ and NOT wear our faith on our sleeves for all to see. The misunderstanding of those who are either non-Christian, or are very immature in their faith, is that such public, muscular faith is somehow self-righteous. However no one who knows Christ and His Scripture would make such a claim.Just a few thoughts. (Hope they come through this time.)
One full time on salary through the Unitarian Church.Hello Ricky. When I read your last post, it left me wondering: do you believe in universal salvation? Thank you. In Jesus, Cindy
When I read your last post, it left me wondering: do you believe in universal salvation? I believe that God is One. I believe that people are saved based on the knowledge that they have. Muslims worship the same God we do, and you can trace them back to Genesis & Abraham. Any God that people worship is based on their knowledge, no matter how limited it may be. Therefore, God, who is first and foremost Love, will save them as well.Even Mother Theresa believed this.Let the bashing begin.Ricky
Let the bashing begin.Not bashing, merely pity. Universalism's practical eschatology produces the same results as atheism - meaninglessness and insignificance. It effectively destroys any notion of transcendence (thus, for example, doing away with the very idea of concientious objection) and reduces all of life-on-earth to a struggle for power.However the will to power is still a meaningless effort because of universalism's pure eschatology. After all, everyone is saved. Which is why such a scheme can only conclude that Mother Teresa of Calcutta is sitting at the heavenly banquet table with Stalin on one side and Hitler on the other. And all three are laughing at the foolishness of us mortals who believe that there is anything like truth, or right, or good, or bad. Teresa now knows she might just as well have murdered those she cared for because, in the end, it really doesn't matter.Which is why the "universalist hope" is merely to do away with one's self. ("The only significant philosophical question is whether or not to commit suicide." Camus)
Globachio,I stated in my very first post that I do not wish to involve myself in the fighting that goes on here at times. And I will hold to that. My brother, we can disagree on matters and still be of the same spiritual essence. It's not my job to judge who is in heaven, and who is not. Nor is it your's. :-) Love is all you need.Ricky
To rickyy ... First of all, who's fighting? Who's even *thinking* of fighting?Secondly, we're NOT brothers. Because you are UU, I am forbidden from considering you as a Christian. This not to disparage you, it's simply that I am the slave of One who defines brotherhood for me. Thirdly, from where do you get the idea that we are not to judge who is, or isn't, in heaven or hell? By what authority, or whose authority, do you make such statements and, furthermore, state them as imperatives?Fourthly, I notice that you didn't even begin to address my points. Which brings me to the following ...My concern is your postmodern thought. And Unitarian Univeralism (precisely as an ism) is most definitely postmodern. That is to say, a postmodernist does not think critically regarding either their position, or those held by others. (Hence my pity for you.) Rather what is "true" or "good" is determined by pure subjectivism ... what one *feels* to be such.Objective, propositional, truth (Schaeffer's "true truth") does not exist, or is of no consequence, to the postmodernist. All that matters is what makes one feel good. And, being unitarian and universalist, is a very popular, liberal, feel-good, position.OTOH, since I do hold to objective, propositional truth, I must conclude that Hitler, Stalin, and Mother Theresa (because she rejected Christ and His exclusive atonement) are in hell.
Any god that would have Mother Theresa and Hitler in the same afterlife is a horrible creature. Your conception of God is not one of love, but of cruelty.Bub
bubbaguy wrote:Any god that would have Mother Theresa and Hitler in the same afterlife is a horrible creature. Your conception of God is not one of love, but of cruelty.BubA typical response when one encounters the God of the Bible.
bubbaguy wrote:Any god that would have Mother Theresa and Hitler in the same afterlife is a horrible creature. Your conception of God is not one of love, but of cruelty.BubOh, I forgot to add this ...Why not include Stalin since I made reference to him also? After all, he made Hitler look like an amateur.My guess is that Stalin, being a darling of the left (as is various and sundry other mass murderers such as Mao, Pol Pot, etc.) is given "special dispensation" from being classified as evil. OTOH Hitler, being commonly thought of as one of those fanatical right-wingers, is singled out as the worst of the worst. The odd thing is ... he was a left-wing socialist!
Globachio,you are assuming that I am a liberal, leftist. Way off. My politics are so far to the right they fall off the map. I've been voting Libertarian my whole life and will continue to do so. I oppose abortion and the death penalty. A consistent position. But while we Quakers don't wager, I suspect you oppose abortion and fully support the death penalty. But this is way off the subject of the Perspective.God is great!God loves us ALL.We are greatly Blessed.Bubbaguy
Mother Theresa (because she rejected Christ and His exclusive atonement) [is]in hell. Upon the basis of what passage of scripture would you send Mother Theresa to Hell? Matthew 25?
1 John 4:7 My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God.Hmmm, I guess that would mean EVERYONE who loves is born of God. That verse is very "out of the box". Too out of the box for most.We are brothers because we are all God's children. Even if you deny it. And as my brother, I love you. Ricky :-)
bubbaguy wrote:you are assuming that I am a liberal, leftist. Way off. My politics are so far to the right they fall off the map. I've been voting Libertarian my whole life and will continue to do so. I oppose abortion and the death penalty. A consistent position. But while we Quakers don't wager, I suspect you oppose abortion and fully support the death penalty. But this is way off the subject of the Perspective.God is great!God loves us ALL.We are greatly Blessed.Bubbaguy Libertarian - as with the Hollywood leftists. :-P Abortion - oppose. So too is Scripture.Death penalty - support because Scripture does.God loves us ALL? This is, indeed, an interesting point. Where on earth would anyone ever come up with that idea? Certainly not from the Bible. I know that Madonna holds such a position, but not God Himself.
God loves us ALL? This is, indeed, an interesting point. Where on earth would anyone ever come up with that idea? Certainly not from the Bible.I guess you haven't heard of John 3:16?"This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life." (The Message)It's amazing how quickly a peaceful conversation turns to hate speech, and condemning a saint like Mother Theresa to hell. But I will continue to stay above the frey. Love is the only thing that we need be concerned with.Ricky
taco wrote:
Assuming you mean verses 31-46, it's an interesting Scripture reference. Note that the sheep are not serving "the least of these" out of a desire to earn salvation, but because salvation has already been given. They are, after all, the elect.But the Scripture passages I would refer to are quite numerous. E.g., Matthew 7:5-27; Romans 16:17-20; Ephesians 2:5-10; 1 Timothy 6:1; 2 Timothy 2:15; Titus 2:1Mother Theresa (because she rejected Christ and His exclusive atonement) [is]in hell. Upon the basis of what passage of scripture would you send Mother Theresa to Hell? Matthew 25?
rickyy38 wrote:1 John 4:7 My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God.Hmmm, I guess that would mean EVERYONE who loves is born of God. That verse is very "out of the box". Too out of the box for most.We are brothers because we are all God's children. Even if you deny it. And as my brother, I love you. Ricky :-) Nope, we are not brothers because we are not all God's children - regardldess of how much you wish to affirm it. Evidence? You quote out of context. I do not say you do this deliberately but, giving you the benefit of the doubt, I would hold that you do so from Scriptural, theological, and philosophical ignorance.For instance, how would you define "love"? What are its parameters, nature, constitution and definition? (BTW, it just so happens that 1 John was the biblical heart of my prayer this morning. So let's see if you can get it right. If so, you may indeed become a Christian, a child of God.)
rickyy38 wrote:I guess you haven't heard of John 3:16?It's amazing how quickly a peaceful conversation turns to hate speech, and condemning a saint like Mother Theresa to hell. But I will continue to stay above the frey. Love is the only thing that we need be concerned with.RickyJohn 3:16 - Along with Matt 7:1, perhaps the most misunderstood and abused passage in Scripture. What is "the world"?Again, how do you define "love"? Feeling nice? Being good? Saying nice things? I cannot but think that such is your definition because, in knee-jerk fashion, a biblical stance is so quickly labelled "hate speech." There is no thought to what you say, merely reaction. Such a response is indicative of a worldly discrimination; a worldly dogmatism that will not allow for any disagreement without quickly resorting to labelling.
But the Scripture passages I would refer to are quite numerous. E.g., Matthew 7:5-27hmmmm, let's see, heres a portion from Mat 7.Wherefore by their correct understanding of the atonement ye shall know them.21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that hath the correct understanding of salvation. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Silly me, I overlooked that. :-)
Nope, we are not brothers because we are not all God's children - regardldess of how much you wish to affirm it. It perplexes me that there have been posts of late which have chastised a number of people for speaking out against what they term as "false religions", yet I come here and speak of love, unity, inclusiveness and peace, and you refuse to call me brother.Why the duplicity, my dear friend?Ricky
Ricky,The God of Judgement is most important to a number of SI participants, such as Globachio. The God of love is foreign. Only the elect will be saved and God created billions and billions of weak people for the purpose of sinning and the foreknowledge of their going to hell. This brand of determinism is what many here espouse.BubbaguyBTW you are my Brother in Christ.
It perplexes me that there have been posts of late which have chastised a number of people for speaking out against what they term as "false religions", yet I come here and speak of love, unity, inclusiveness and peace, and you refuse to call me brother.Hello Ricky,I think the issue of the discussions beforehand was not calling false that which is false, but in what manner it was being done. Most all who posted on those threads agreed that RCism is a false religion-----one that most likely has true born again believers in it."Brother" is a term Christians use toward one another who are joined "in Him" through the Holy Spirit's birthing. Not all who name the name of Christ are brothers, as Mt. 7 shows. It is not "inclusion, "love", peace, unity" which makes one "brothers and sisters"-----it is the new life through Christ which joins us.......and sometimes as evidenced here: outward unity and peace is sometimes lacking, but that does not affect our still being family. Are you "born again" (Jn. 3:3-6)? If so, then you are my brother, but you are teaching and holding false beliefs. Those beliefs are what cause concern both for you and for others you teach these things to. If you belong to Jesus, it is His desire for you to walk in the light of truth. The Truth is that Jesus is THE way, THE truth and THE life. He said that "noone comes to the Father, but by me".........and "there is no other name under heaven by which men must be saved"......scripture also teaches clearly not all men will be saved. "Whosoever was not found in the book of life shall be cast in the lake of fire"(Rev. 20:15).........In Him, Cindy
Cindy,Thank you for your kind response and your sincere attitude. I do not believe that God will send people to hell. That makes no sense. While I could understand how someone who yells in God's face "I hate you" could be sent to "hell", I don't see him sending innocent people in India to hell when they had absolutely no chance to ever hear of Jesus. That is not justice, that would be cruelty.Hell is the grave for those who do evil in the world. I believe the everlasting fires of hell in the Bible are allegorical. I know many claim they can proove this or that in the Bible, but I also know those who say they can proove that the oppression of black people can justified in the Bible.Ricky
I don't want to divert this thread to another long discussion on the inerrancy and literalness of the Bible. That said, my point is not that the Bible is unreliable, because the writers did speak from conviction of the Truth of God as they received it. It is interpretation that we disagree upon.But you don't see that all your threads have to founder on this rock. It is all your own opinion and the fact that you have seasoning of religion doesn't change any of that. It is not that you have no absolute authority, no one is so objective. We all have a final court of appeal and yours is your mind. One day your mind will have to give its account at the final court, and from there there will be no appeal. Not a single mouth opened in protest; each will see the utter justice of all that God did.Some of these emails may be part of the evidence against you. And no I don't hate you; if I did I wouldn't bother to keep writing these emails.
Ron,I guess I have a hard time when someone tells me not to think and reason. That they will do my thinking and reasoning for me. This is what you are saying. Bub
bubbaguy wrote:I guess I have a hard time when someone tells me not to think and reason. That they will do my thinking and reasoning for me. This statement does little to mask your personal estimation of those who hold an opinion contrary to your own.Dan/\\/\\/\\
Have I spoken harshly or critically of anyone? I've tried to focus on the themes and ideas presented and leave the personal alone. I have respect for the people participating in this forum and realize the some of my personal beliefs are foreign to them. I hope the opposite is also true. If I have offended anyone on a personal level, I apologize.Bubbaguy
Bubba you have not offended anyone. The reason everyone is countering almost everything you say is not becuase we hate you. Most of us feel you are in such deep error (deception) it could possible cost you your soul. No one here wants you to be deceived. Thats why there is such strong countering against what you post.
bubbaguy wrote:I ... realize [that] some of my personal beliefs are foreign to them. I hope the opposite is also true. Bubba, you need not apologize, I doubt anyone is offended by your convictions - I certainly am not. I would find it hard to imagine anyone finding your opinions foreign to themselves however -really, most of us who came to the Lord in our adult years believed (along with the rest of the world) most of what you continue to hold to. It is not foreign therefore, rather your convictions were likely held by most of us who now dismiss them - not because they don't make for pretty debating - but because they represent a scientific -opinion- and not scientific -fact- a distinction that we were as blind to as you appear to be, when we were as you are now.That might sound patronizing - as if I was saying that those of us who dismiss your convictions are "oh so mature" - and have "outgrown" your convictions - that is --not-- the idea!God doesn't ask anyone to set aside their reason in order to believe in creation - nor would any sober minded person do so today. I don't reject evolution because I am a mindless buffoon, I reject it first and foremost because it doesn't agree with the genesis account, and secondly, because most of the higher sciences -already- reject evolution - because evolution is being shown to rest almost entirely upon speculations that science is consistently and persistently demonstrating to be flawed or false. I do expect to hear evolution preached about in the pulpit in the next twenty five years - not as truth - but as a wonderful illustration of what a house built on sifty-sand looks like. The moment truth comes along like a flood - the house falls.Dan/\\/\\/\\
taco wrote:Silly me, I overlooked that. :-) Yes. Very good quotes, esp. those you underlined.
I do not believe that God will send people to hell. That makes no sense. While I could understand how someone who yells in God's face "I hate you" could be sent to "hell", I don't see him sending innocent people in India to hell when they had absolutely no chance to ever hear of Jesus. That is not justice, that would be cruelty.Ricky, the beautiful thing with the Gospel is that IN SPITE of someone yelling in God's face, "I hate you"--------they CAN be saved. That doesn't make "sense", does it, yet that is exactly the Truth-----those who are rebellious, rotten sinners can be saved through God's Grace. The really unbelieveable thing for most minds to comprehend is that a man such as Jeffrey Dahmer may be in heaven, IF he was born again before he died. Good works do not get someone to heaven, nor do evil works in and of themself, get one a ticket to Hell.Concerning being 'innocent', is anyone really innocent before the Lord God Almighty(such as the person from India you mention)? If not innocent, then at what level of good deeds/bad deeds are they judged on? If that be the case, why did Jesus come from heaven, be born as a man, live a perfectly sinless life for mankind's sake, and then die a torturous death to pay the penalty for man's sins? In Him, Cindy
dann wrote:It is not foreign therefore, rather your convictions were likely held by most of us who now dismiss them - not because they don't make for pretty debating - but because they represent a scientific -opinion- and not scientific -fact- a distinction that we were as blind to as you appear to be, when we were as you are now.A very good post. Simple. Straightforward. Honest, without any self-righteousness. Yes, there was a time when I was of the same opinion as any others. I was so liberal (back in the '80s) that my catchphase was "If it's liberal, it's too conservative for me." I literally *hated* people like Ratzinger, Schaeffer, etc. Praise God for His grace.BTW, much of what non-Christians/liberals loathe about the Gospel message is salvation-by-grace-alone. It's a very upsetting message to them.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
could bubbaguy and ricky be one and the same?