Live / Walk in the Spirit

How do we live / walk in the Spirit?

That's an interesting question! True story. I was driving down the road one morning early--6am I think, and I was listening to a christian talk show where callers call in with questions. A man called in and was very distraught. I forget what exactly what the specific circumstances were. But I'll never forget what these 2 radio hosts said, in a very spiritual and authoritive tone(I make that last statement tongue in cheek), "just walk in the spirit brother". That was it! I was so mad, and like the man who called I was left hanging with what I call a religious platitude. It was empty advice. That got me seeking the Lord as to how to answer, what is walking in the Spirit. I won't go through the scripture unless some one asks but basically, "walking in the spirit is the doing of God's word daily in our lives, its the proper application of His principles and precepts done daily by us". I know what you're thinking, Some will say that's too easy, some will say that's to hard and some will say that's legalistic, but Jesus said His words were life and light. Well there's enough there to get this thread stared down the road.

Hi Nasher,This is a timely question and one that has really been on my heart of late. My first answer is to admit that we must submit and remain FULLY submitted to the Holy Ghost so that we might remain FULL of the Holy Ghost. When God is wrestling with us about something we need to submit that thing to God. If we do not we start down a slippery slope towards carnality. When I say 'carnality' I mean simply trying to live the Christian life in our own strength. Sometimes we would like to have the power of the Holy Ghost on the one hand, but on the other hand we will not stop resisting Him in some area. This is what is called "giving place to the Devil." Place is a 'real estate' term. We give the enemy some piece of ground (as it were) in our life and the Holy Ghost is grieved and in a controversy with us. How can a person be filled with the Holy Ghost and be resisting at the same time?How do we give 'place' to the Devil? Many times the enemy will use someone or 'something' to anger us until we begin to grieve the Holy Spirit by allowing that thing to go unresolved. We allow the sun to go down on our wrath and pretty soon we are struggling to maintain the fullness of God. God will not condone bitterness. He will deal with us to deal with it and when we will not the process of struggling begins. The enemy moves in SWIFTLY at these times and starts challenging us in other areas. He sees we are vulnerable and wants to make a quick work of us. IF he succeeds in getting us to stumble at these times in some other area we have both the anger issue and the violated conscience keeping us from boldly entering in to the throne of grace. The enemy plays on this all the more to try to drive a wedge between us and God. He knows that TIME IS ON HIS SIDE. If he will wait long enough- the Christain in controversy with God will stumble and fall. They will drift farther and farther behind. Once we submit fully to God the supply of the Spirit is more than enough. We can walk in the Spirit FULL of the Spirit. We cannot walk in the Spirit in our own power. If we live in the Spirit let us also walk in the Spirit. Are we full of the life of God through His Holy Spirit or are we weak and sickly because we have a controversy with God? What adorns the walls of the chamber of images in our Temple? Have we made the Holy Spirit welcome? This is really the first step to walking in the Spirit and holiness. We are holy when we are full of the Holy Ghost. When we are not full- we find ourselves going through religious exercise mechanically. It becomes a serious effort to do anything for God. Even feeling God at those times is hard. Why? We need to submit to God and allow a fresh filling of the Spirit to empower us for another day to walk full of Him. Christ in YOU- walking and living out His will in us as we are filled with His Spirit. If we will do that we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.God BLess,-Robert

Very interesting timing here. Hesitate as it seems am I still struggling a bit with this in one sense and this want of yakking all over the place...When I say 'carnality' I mean simply trying to live the Christian life in our own strength.Perfectly stated and had begun to notice this in recent days and if it could be read between the lines, "living off the 'reserves'" in a sense. And it doesn't necessarily mean to be 'in sin', just in reliance of 'our own strength', 'in the flesh'. I noticed it for what it is as if presented with a choice, like looking in a mirror and seeing it. The 'head talk, self talk' was along the lines of "You are walking in the flesh, you see it don't you? Will you put your trust back onto your feelings, be carried about by what is seen, be dragged down by these circumstances? Or will you put your trust in the Lord despite all this? You say you are dead to all this and yet the drift... I see it, I recognize it, the sense of that even subtle 'felt' Presence seems to be away, not 'felt' yet still there. Still carrying, but silent." So it has become just a time to fight, fight the thought, fight the temptation, fight the imaginations. Not in anger, not in the same reliance of my own strength, but to move on... It's that paradox again, to rest in a sure trust while fighting the bent and all the other 'outside' things that come into play.A part of this whole challenge is in work. Being a completely different surrounding and atmosphere and it's a good one most certainly. But probably the best way to put it would be the opposite of how it is often portrayed. "How do I bring my faith to work", whereas it is "How do I fit my work into my faith". It can be a 'work' in itself, trying to apply the principals of "Practicing the Presence of God" in this new setting with so much to concentrate on and learn and the juggling of responsibilities... It's a long way from the happy days of having endless messages constantly piped into the cranium via a Walkman not so long ago. Not to get the wrong idea, not a reliance on, no, it was a blessed time and even in those days was beyond grateful to have that opportunity, often felt a bit guilty knowing that everyone else was out there in the circumstances similar to where I find myself now.But the recognition is definitely there and that's a start and am truly thankful for it, there is enough impossibilities daily that can keep one crying out "Abba Father" and the praying without ceasing still is only a pause away. It is in the little things, the 'checks' you get in your spirit; 'um, that was a bit untruthful there'(yes, it's a lie), a little to cutesy here', 'is that what you really wanted to say?''Your off' again... :-? I am rambling... again.

Prov. 14:14 \tThe backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways,\tBut a good man will be satisfied from above. A babe in Christ must go to Him who is above. A babe in Christ must dwell in the Holy Scriptures. The Lord is faithful to speak, to teach, to lead one who feeds on His word daily. There is not much a man can do but water and sow. Do not put your trust in man, but seek Him through the Scriptures. That is where one finds the "increase" that comes from Him alone. Man shall not live on bread alone, but every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. He is faithful to teach you as He did David, Paul, John, and anyone else that "wanted" to hear and 'do."We all stumble along His path, yet He will heal our backsliding by giving us what Soloman wrote about. Prov. 14:14 \tThe backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways,\tBut a good man will be satisfied from above. This is a promise given to His children. Live by faith and He will dine with you. In ChristJeff

... had begun to notice this in recent days and if it could be read between the lines, "living off the 'reserves'" in a sense. And it doesn't necessarily mean to be 'in sin', just in reliance of 'our own strength', 'in the flesh'. I noticed it for what it is as if presented with a choice, like looking in a mirror and seeing it. The 'head talk, self talk' was along the lines of "You are walking in the flesh, you see it don't you? Will you put your trust back onto your feelings, be carried about by what is seen, be dragged down by these circumstances? Or will you put your trust in the Lord despite all this? You say you are dead to all this and yet the drift... I see it, I recognize it, the sense of that even subtle 'felt' Presence seems to be away, not 'felt' yet still there. Still carrying, but silent." So it has become just a time to fight, fight the thought, fight the temptation, fight the imaginations. Not in anger, not in the same reliance of my own strength, but to move on... It's that paradox again, to rest in a sure trust while fighting the bent and all the other 'outside' things that come into play.These are the types of comments that books are made of. It is the words of one who is in the fight and consciously aware of it. The sad thing is that a Christian would be so far down that they are not in the fight. They are just lying down- unconscious that they are even on the canvas. Hang in there Bro. Mike! I feel you brother! I need a fresh drink from the well. I need renewed strength. A part of this whole challenge is in work. Being a completely different surrounding and atmosphere and it's a good one most certainly. But probably the best way to put it would be the opposite of how it is often portrayed. "How do I bring my faith to work", whereas it is "How do I fit my work into my faith". It can be a 'work' in itself, trying to apply the principals of "Practicing the Presence of God" in this new setting with so much to concentrate on and learn and the juggling of responsibilities... It's a long way from the happy days of having endless messages constantly piped into the cranium via a Walkman not so long ago. Not to get the wrong idea, not a reliance on, no, it was a blessed time and even in those days was beyond grateful to have that opportunity, often felt a bit guilty knowing that everyone else was out there in the circumstances similar to where I find myself now.We are so blessed to have the resources to feed our spirit with. I have felt like the Apostles made it without them- so can we. HOWEVER, I believe now that the enemy has so many weapons against us and means of distraction and compromise that we do well to drink in every drop of spiritual strength we possibly can. The enemy is using different weapons to tempt and test with age old temptations; so we must use what ever God has made available to keep the whole armour of God firmly fitted in place. God will give grace in the times of work I believe if we will just be careful to be sensitive to the Holy Ghost throughout the day- and do all that we do for God's glory as an expression of our faith where we one had filled our minds with sermons. Sermons are awesome. Worship and bible tapes are awesome. Yet, sometimes we just have to express our faith and go about our work as unto Him. God Bless,-Robert

This is indeed a very timely thread, I am excited to see how it develops. It is amazing to me that there is no real rule or definition on how to walk in the Spirit but everyone who is working out their salvation with ‘fear and trembling’ has a different part of the pie… it is very edifying. Paul motivates me with the statement he made in Philippians 3:12-14:Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.I mainly take this to mean forgetting what good may have been accomplished in me. Today is a new day, a new carrying of the cross, yesterday’s victory is over and forgotten, today I must focus all my energy on new victory and new possibilities of grace, as if I had not done anything at all in all my Christian walk. “Pick up your cross daily” says the Lord. I believe the struggle after a while is not so much sin but, the natural man…I can spend all day having done no sin but if you have not manifested the grace of and in Christ you still feel somewhat deflated and backslidden. The Life in the Spirit of Christ is not only avoiding the sin but it is the going the extra mile and looking for ways to be used up for others and for the Lord. Avoiding sin is only half the equation, the “extra mile” is the other half for me. The sermon on the mount does not exhort good, it exhorts grace and life, this is infinitely higher, but this is where the Spirit of the Lord works best, in the infinitely difficult and the eternal.James

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. How does this scripture fit into the issue of 'walking in the Spirit'. If we resist the Holy Ghost long enough and remain carnal (in sin or living out of our own strength) do we walk out from under God's grace...'lose' our salvation? This was the first scripture I read when I bought a NKJV about a year ago, it wasn't in my NIV and it blew my mind and has engaged alot of meditation since. Seems to be a huge doctrinal statement left out of some translations if it actually means what it appears to read.The idea of resisting the flesh and submitting to the Holy Ghost daily has been on my heart since first reading that scripture, but most intensly the last couple of months. This thread is really timely.Look forward to continuing to read the replies.In Christ,Mr Nath.

I was reading Nee's biography last night again (against the tide). As a young man, there was an island that he had felt he was to go and proclaim the gospel to. HE struggled with the idea because it was a dangerous place but accepted it as God's will and began preparations. Many brothers were to go with him, a house was prepared and so forth. But five days before he was due to go his parents forbade him to go. He was sorely dissapointed and so prayed about the matter saying, "Lord is it not your will that I go?" the Lord said "yes its my will that you go, but I take no delight in my will be forced to happen" (approx)There are two parts that I would like to emphasise in relation to walking in the Spirit.1)Revelation of God's will.2)Yieldedness to his timing and to His way.Moses knew he was to be deliverer but needed to wait on God's direction. Abraham knew he was to be father of many nations, but again, needed to wait for God to move.Often we make the mistake of thinking that because we know what God's ultimate goal is (in realtion to a particular issue) we can just go ahead and do it.

Hi Mr. Nath,How does this scripture fit into the issue of 'walking in the Spirit'. If we resist the Holy Ghost long enough and remain carnal (in sin or living out of our own strength) do we walk out from under God's grace...'lose' our salvation? I tend to take a different line on this topic. I believe that if a person were genuinely born again that the chances of them ultimately being lost are very slim. J. Vernon McGee used to say that the 'sons' always return to the father's house and the hogs return to the hog pen. No matter how much you dress up a hog- he is by nature still a hog. Spray perfume dress him up and he is still a hog. On the other hand, no matter how muddy the son may get he is by nature still a 'son.' The son will come to himself if he is really a son. He is never at home in the muck and the mire. There are some anomalies to this view for sure- but by and large I believe it to be so.Leonard Ravenhill stressed the need for the New Birth. There must be a new birth experience in the life of a believer. This is a change of nature. The appetites change. Many who think they are Christians are actually what C. G. Finney called "professors." They profess Christ- but they never made it past the convicted state. They never really yielded everything to God. The Holy ghost brought them to the crossroads and they would not yield fully to Him and now they just hang around with a false assurance. Really it is no assurance at all because you see them often come to the altar for salvation every week. They know what God wants from them. They are aware of the controversy He has with them. Yet, they will not submit that thing to him. This was the first scripture I read when I bought a NKJV about a year ago, it wasn't in my NIV and it blew my mind and has engaged alot of meditation since. Seems to be a huge doctrinal statement left out of some translations if it actually means what it appears to read.This is a topic of much discussion here at SI. Certainly for study purposes you need a more literal translation. NKJV is a good start. The KJV is my favorite as I believe it is nearest the best as a translation. The language takes some getting used to- but you can match the words to a concordance and get a better feel for the meaning of the original Greek or Hebrew words. The idea of resisting the flesh and submitting to the Holy Ghost daily has been on my heart since first reading that scripture, but most intensly the last couple of months. This thread is really timely.Remember the New Testament passage: submit yourselves therefor unto God, resist the devil and he will flee from you? The KEY to this passage is submission to God. We think (and I have felt this also) that we need to resist "the flesh" or "Sin" or "the world" and that is it. Yet, the first thing we must do is fully submit to God. That is the hardest thing of all as we don't like to yield everything up to Him too easily. When we submit everything to Him the Holy Spirit will come in in fulness and empower us to live holy. We can't help but live holy when we are full of the Spirit. All our appetites are in subjection to God. Nothing is running rampant and wild. This is why the enemy 'flees.' The old timey preacher used to say- when the devil comes knocking send Christ to the door. I think there is some truth there.God Bless,-Robert

Oh, this is bound to be very helpful, this thread, already just a quick attempt at catching up here is causing some stirring...On the 'down' side of things...Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. How many times I have heard that verse cut short at that point and have practically lost my sanctified self (well, that's a bit problamatic isn't it...) even again from a good preacher on the radio that probably had the rest of the traffic thinking I needed to be locked up... Finish the verse!!!!"., who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."It's been mentioned before but... goodness, when will this stop? It almost makes one want to say "If you don't quit doing this type of thing there will be..."Anyway... :-?

"., who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."This would be a good time to maybe see if Bro. Ron could help us out in understanding the relationship of 'walking in the Spirit' and the paraclete- the one that walks along side. This seems to speak to relationship. Many illusions to God walking with us in Abraham My Friend come to mind. Hmmm. Walking with God. Walking in communion. Able to 'look into the eyes' so to speak with a clearness of conscience. It is so relationship based. God Bless,-Robert

MikePart of the reason that the verse is not completed is due to questions about whether it was always just like this! Many modern versions won't have this last half of the verse. We are back into the territory of the Greek manuscript families here, but there is another reason why some question whether or not it should be here. How are we to understand the verse as it stands? Is it saying that 'no condemnation' is only the case for those who 'are walking according to the Spirit'? If so is this verse not teaching 'justification by sanctification'? Does God declare those just who 'walk in the Spirit' or does He 'justify the ungodly' who put their faith in Him? (Rom 4:5)Galatians 5:25 indicates the possibility that an individual may 'live in the Spirit' but not 'walk in the Spirit'. What would the legal position of such a person be? Would they be 'justified' or 'condemned'? These are mutually exclusive legal terms; it is 'either/or'. If the Romans 8:1 is saying that 'only' those who are 'walking in the Spirit' (and it is present tense) it would imply that our legal condition could keep on switching from 'condemnation' to 'justification' depending on the day!The question to be asked is "is 'walking in the Spirit' the necessary condition of 'no condemnation' or is 'believing faith' the necessary condition of 'no condemnation'? If it is the former we are on the tight-rope of the theology of Finney & Co. If it is the latter we are in the hands of the classic reformed position of 'justification by faith'. Of course, God will never condone an imperfect walk, but does he demand a perfect walk as a necessary condition of acceptance?

Of course, God will never condone an imperfect walk, but does he demand a perfect walk as a necessary condition of acceptance?I think it would be good at this point to gather in the passages of Galatians 5 to help us sort this out. What do we mean to 'walk after the flesh'? What is it to 'live after the flesh'? What is the behavior of those who are 'in the flesh'? When I think about 'flesh' I am thinking in terms of a life lived apart from the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that the following list in Galatians 5 is the only course a person would take without the Spirit of God. Here we read:Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are 'these': fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties, envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5 ASV) What does it mean to 'practice such things'? Is the word of God telling us that one infraction of one item in this list constitutes not inheriting the Kingdom of God until it is repented of? Finney would have said yes. Not only yes to this list, but yes to any doubtful behavior. He did, however, make an exception in certain of his writings about times when one was overcome with temptation or the like and committed the sin out of character. However, he jumps right back into his hardline stance so it's hard to tell what he though would hapen. Moreover he believed if it was 'questionable' it was sin and therefor called the salvation into question. I cannot go that route. The list of Galatians 5 is what God calls 'works of the flesh.' I don't believe we are at liberty to just arbitrarily 'add' to it to keep people in bondage. Certainly there are ups and downs in our Christian life- but how far down do we go before we are no longer justified? To keep this simple I think personally that one has lost their salvation if the Holy Spirit has departed. If He has departed it would be evidenced by the rampant sin described in Galatians 5. If we are FULL of the Holy Spirit and walking in the Spirit then those things will be at a bare minimum. The enemy will attack the emotions when he cannot prevail against the affections. He wants us to allow the sun to go down on our wrath and give him a place with which to keep us in termoil and then strike the affections. Sort of like a one-two knock out blow. He attacks the 'flesh' and its needs and reactions to circumstances. He exploits the natural tendencies of man. God Bless,-Robert

Hi Ron,Part of the reason that the verse is not completed is due to questions about whether it was always just like this! Many modern versions won't have this last half of the verse. I had almost completely forgot about that, thanks for straighting me out here.A little digression there, part of the particular burr that wedge's in the saddle is from some that I know who have used this as an excuse for practically anything under the sun. That "in", in effect means 'license'... But that is a whole other can of worms. "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh".The question to be asked is "is 'walking in the Spirit' the necessary condition of 'no condemnation' or is 'believing faith' the necessary condition of 'no condemnation'? If it is the former we are on the tight-rope of the theology of Finney & Co. If it is the latter we are in the hands of the classic reformed position of 'justification by faith'. Dare I say... both? That would be of course if we extracted out that one word... 'conditon'.How about 'effect'?Something on the order of "The effect of a believer who is not condemned, nor fullfiling the lust of his flesh is one who walks in the Spirit"Mike-y translation :-? What is the effect then? Talking to myself out loud here.... so I would have to add... and the Lord is well pleased with him.Of course it doesn't say that...It would be interesting to delve more into the how's and what have you's about the 'adding' of that section in Romans 1, or maybe we have before...think I am running out of head drive space :-)

Some interesting ideas here Mike. Pity they closed the canon before you got to think them. :-D Here is an accusation that was made of Paul “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” (Rom. 6:1, KJVS) Paul never tries to defend himself against this accusation but simply implies that if you can ask the question you haven't experienced what he is talking about.We have to preach a gospel in which grace is so absolutely the gift of God that technically it would be possible to bring the accusation of Rom 6:1 against us. There is nothing wrong with the logic of the question only the heart of the questioner.Paul's earlier statement in Rom 5 referring to a 'God who justifies the ungodly' still takes my breath away!

Br. Robert wrote:I tend to take a different line on this topic. I believe that if a person were genuinely born again that the chances of them ultimately being lost are very slim. J. Vernon McGee used to say that the 'sons' always return to the father's house and the hogs return to the hog pen. No matter how much you dress up a hog- he is by nature still a hog. Spray perfume dress him up and he is still a hog. On the other hand, no matter how muddy the son may get he is by nature still a 'son.' The son will come to himself if he is really a son. He is never at home in the muck and the mire. There are some anomalies to this view for sure- but by and large I believe it to be so.This particular story was the reason for my leaving the church I attend once again. My pastor taught similar to what you have stated here. Yet what does Scripture say?Luke 15:31 “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. 32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”Listen to the condition of the prodigal son..."for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found." This Scripture does not conflict with any other Scripture. This is saying the same things as when Paul writes:Col. 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Paul warns us that one must continue in the faith. What does it mean to continue in the faith?In ChristJeff

What do we really mean when we call Jesus our Lord? Is He our Lord? The demons know Jesus as Christ, and even submit to Him through fear, yet He is not their Lord. If we continue in faith, how does this relate to walking in the Spirit?In ChristJeff

I don't think I agree with submit as you guys use the word or even as websters defines its. Jesus himself said that noone can spoil a house unless he first binds the strongman. In the area of the demonic its war! In the area of condemnation in the mind? I think at times its real and not imaginary (maybe a greater need for the renewing of the mind) sometimes within and sometimes without, much like what happened to ole' king David in 2 Sam 2:16. We always have an accusser of the brethren and the demons can see when we'er not right, when we'er not hid in Christ. The victory is our faith with hope as our anchor during such times.

The Holy Spirit also convicts. The Holy Spirit strives with the spirit of man. How else should we know the direction we are to walk. Throughout the Scriptures, we hear of walking along a path. The idea of faith and the idea of walking along the path that He has shown us is of the same precept. Listen to what God told Joshua.Josh. 1:1 After the death of Moses the servant of the LORD, it came to pass that the LORD spoke to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ assistant, saying: 2 “Moses My servant is dead. Now therefore, arise, go over this Jordan, you and all this people, to the land which I am giving to them—the children of Israel. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot will tread upon I have given you, as I said to Moses. When God said to Joshua, "Every place that the sole of your foot will tread upon I have given you..." this is an oath that God gives to him. Now if you continue to read, God continues to give Josuah directions in the path that he does go. When Joshua makes mistakes, God comes and tells him of the error. ie, Joshua did not look to God for instructions, but he listened to men concerning the conquest of the city of Ai. Also, Joshua was fooled by the Gibeonites. There are consequenses that come into our lives due to disobedience. There are consequenses that come into our lives because of unbelief. The Holy Spirit will strive against the spirit of man in order that he turn toward and not away from Him. God disciplines those whom He loves. Do not always assume that Satan is the one who accusses you. In ChristJeff

The idea I was trying to bring to light in what does it mean that Jesus is Lord of our life, speaks to the meaning of the word Lord. How do we know Christ? Do our thoughts of Him only draw a picture of Savior, or is there more than this? Do we only know Him by the doctrines that men memorize or do we know Him beyond the words that we regurgitate?In ChristJeff

Br. dorcas wrote:I think you should receive a good many different answers to this, depending on which part of a life was most in need of being disciplined. Of course, the Holy Spirit brings self-discipline but, God does not bring to our attention everything He is working on. When He makes something an issue, that's the time to deal with it.I hear your words and they are true. Our relationship with our Lord is unique to each individual, because the darkeness that exists in each man differs. Thus it is only by the wisdom of our Lord that we can know His righteousness. Amen Brother.You also wrote: Otherwise, one can be running around trying to fulfil another man's agenda of what God requires of Him. It is a matter of 'follow thou me' (as Jesus said to Peter).Again I hear your words. They speak of the difference of living by the Spirit and realizing the freedom that the New Covenant brings. Those who have not understood why and where this freedom come from often fall into legalism and remain under the bondage of other men. Amen again.Finally you wrote:I don't agree that by not walking in the Spirit, a person will automatically be fulfilling all the lusts of the flesh as listed in Galatians 5. Rather, it works the other way, in that the lusts of the flesh, which are an expression of the mind of the flesh, cannot be fulfilled while we are walking in the Spirit.This brings this Scripture to mind, Matthew 5:6 \tBlessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled."Again Amen.A man who is like a tree planted by the water will know that the goodness of God far exceeds anything he ever knew of before. It is the goodness of God that become the strength and joy of the believer. The discipline brings repentance, the goodness brings us to hope in Him.In ChristJeff

Br dorcas brought to light a significant thought. When I asked what does the word Lord mean to you, he stated that everyone should have in a sense their own testimony. I would like to give you one example of how the Lord disciplined me about three years ago.Six years ago I was present for the opening of a church plant in our area. It soon qualified as a Calvary Chapel affiliate. During this time the Lord had begun to stir in me the calling into ministry. My pastor, then 29 years old, plugged me into varios ministries. I soon was given the responsibility of leading a men's fellowship group in our small congregation. I also began to seek out ministry training at a branch campus of Calvary Chapel Bible college. I met many people during this time. I began to strive for position in the church. I also recognized that others that I met along the way in the various churches, strived also for position in the church. It was a good thing to land a paying job in an established ministry. Looking back now, I can see the uglyness of my sin. But the Lord is faithful to work out the clay as He saw fit. You might remember recently that I posted a thread a "fireman and Christ." My brother Bob was a man who had walked with the Lord for a long time. He was much closer to the Lord because his nature was more like Christ. Well, back about 3 years ago, Brother Bob walked into our church and soon rose in the congregation because of what the Lord had worked in him. One day my pastor came to me and told me that Brother Bob was going to take over the men's fellowship ministry. That news hurt my flesh really bad. I was consumed by this event for days, but I submitted without much outward signs. Remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees, "you are like white washed tombs on the outside, but you are full of dead men's bones on the inside." This Scripture speaks well of what was going on inside of me.About two or three months passed, and the Holy Spirit convicted me one day before a prayer meeting. The Holy Spirit brought a thought to my mind that I had thought soon after I was relieved of the men's fellowship ministry. This is the thought that was brought to my mind that day. "It's okay, Brother Bob can have the men's fellowship for now, he will die of Lou Gerihgs desease someday, and then I will again head the men's ministry." Then the Holy Spirit impressed upon me that I was required to confess this thought during the prayer meeting that night. I began to rationalize that no one needs to know, what is past is past. Yet the Holy Spirit did not let up. I experienced a huge amount of guilt that evening. Well, during the prayer meeting I submitted to the conviction and direction that I received earlier. It was a time of sobbing and a time of washing that I will not forget. It was a time of breaking and humbling that has continued to teach me lessons even unto today. This is one testimony of what my Lord has worked in me. I have learned alot about what it means to strive for position in His church and the ugliness of that sin as He sees it.He is faithful to continue the work that He has begun in me. Submitting to Him when He speaks is the key that opens the door to Him. In ChristJeff

Hi Jeff---your mention Of joshua took my mind to Zechriah 3:1 and following along with Pauls exclaimation in Roms who shall bring anything against .....ect Romans 8. Just wanted to add that :-P Bro. daryl

Zech. 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” Joshua the high priest during the time of the return from the captivity from Babylon, was set free from the bondage of Satan's snare. Yes, who can stand against those who have victory in the promises of God. Our God is a mighty fortress. Hosea 11-12:3 \t“I taught Ephraim to walk,\tTaking them by their arms;\tBut they did not know that I healed them. 4 \tI drew them with gentle cords,\tWith bands of love,\tAnd I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck.\tI stooped and fed them. 7 \tMy people are bent on backsliding from Me.\tThough they call to the Most High,\tNone at all exalt Him.8 \t“How can I give you up, Ephraim?\tHow can I hand you over, Israel?\tHow can I make you like Admah?\tHow can I set you like Zeboiim?\tMy heart churns within Me;\tMy sympathy is stirred. 6 \tSo you, by the help of your God, return;\tObserve mercy and justice,\tAnd wait on your God continually. Hos. 14:4 \t“I will heal their backsliding,\tI will love them freely,\tFor My anger has turned away from him. He will heal our propensity to backslide, to turn away, for He loves those whom He chasens. He grants repentance:Rom. 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? In ChristJeff

3 “I taught Ephraim to walk, Taking them by their arms; But they did not know that I healed them. 4 I drew them with gentle cords, With bands of love, And I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck. I stooped and fed them. How many do not know that God has healed them? How many live without knowing the Spirit's work in their lives? How many live according to the ways of the carnal mind? How has the Spirit healed you? How has He taught you the things of Christ Jesus our Lord?In ChristJeff

Hey JeffJust read your post. Six years ago I was present for the opening of a church Very encouraging and enlightening. I am sure that many of us have many problems with pride and the associated sins. But to realise these weaknesses and submit in the way you have just related is the type of humility that i beleive Christ had in mind when he was telling us about the beatitudes from our brother Matthew.God bless you in your continued sanctification to Christ.Your Brother in ChristSteven 8-)

Lisening to the Spirit within us, many times, is not welcomed by our flesh. Many will say it is the devil that is accusing a son of God. But I believe one must discern between the spirits. The flesh hates the things of the Holy Spirit when He speaks to our sinful ways. What I want to point out here is that we should be thankful when we recognize that the Holy Spirit is convicting us. I say this because it is the work of God bringing us unto repentance.You see we ourselves, in our carnal mind, cannot know how to repent unless the Spirit of God shows us the way. Repentance is not of man but it is a gift of God. Unless the Holy Spirit shows us our heart as God see it, we remain in bondage to rational thought. We remain in bondage to the old man. Repentance is not only a time when we first prayed for God to save us. Repentance is a gift from God showing us the way to walk as our Savior walks. Repentance is God's way of healing us from turning away from Him. Praise God for His gift. David prayed most earnestly.Psa. 51:1 \tHave mercy upon me, O God,\tAccording to Your lovingkindness;\tAccording to the multitude of Your tender mercies,\tBlot out my transgressions. 2 \tWash me thoroughly from my iniquity,\tAnd cleanse me from my sin. 3 \tFor I acknowledge my transgressions,\tAnd my sin is always before me. 4 \tAgainst You, You only, have I sinned,\tAnd done this evil in Your sight—\tThat You may be found just when You speak,\tAnd blameless when You judge. 5 \tBehold, I was brought forth in iniquity,\tAnd in sin my mother conceived me. 6 \tBehold, You desire truth in the inward parts,\tAnd in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom. 7 \tPurge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;\tWash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8 \tMake me hear joy and gladness,\tThat the bones You have broken may rejoice. 9 \tHide Your face from my sins,\tAnd blot out all my iniquities. 10 \tCreate in me a clean heart, O God,\tAnd renew a steadfast spirit within me. 11 \tDo not cast me away from Your presence,\tAnd do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. 12 \tRestore to me the joy of Your salvation,\tAnd uphold me by Your generous Spirit. 13 \tThen I will teach transgressors Your ways,\tAnd sinners shall be converted to You. 14 \tDeliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,\tThe God of my salvation,\tAnd my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness. 15 \tO Lord, open my lips,\tAnd my mouth shall show forth Your praise. 16 \tFor You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;\tYou do not delight in burnt offering. 17 \tThe sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,\tA broken and a contrite heart—\tThese, O God, You will not despise. 18 \tDo good in Your good pleasure to Zion;\tBuild the walls of Jerusalem. 19 \tThen You shall be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness,\tWith burnt offering and whole burnt offering;\tThen they shall offer bulls on Your altar. Do you hear the heart cries of David? Do you hear the Holy Spirit speaking to your heart? In ChristJeff

3 “I taught Ephraim to walk, Taking them by their arms; But they did not know that I healed them. 4 I drew them with gentle cords, With bands of love, And I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck. I stooped and fed them. How does God heal us from sin? How does God draw us out of bondage? For those who are not freed, whose fault is it? God's or man's. Listen to His desire for His creation.Is. 55:1 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,\tCome to the waters;\tAnd you who have no money,\tCome, buy and eat.\tYes, come, buy wine and milk\tWithout money and without price. 2 \tWhy do you spend money for what is not bread,\tAnd your wages for what does not satisfy?\tListen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,\tAnd let your soul delight itself in abundance. 3 \tIncline your ear, and come to Me.\tHear, and your soul shall live;\tAnd I will make an everlasting covenant with you—\tThe sure mercies of David. If we choose not to hear, can we then be said to have faith? In ChristJeff

Sister dorcas wrote:He knows how tenderly such parts of a person need to be sensitised to His healing presence and how to enable us to yeild up our pain. For me, this became an essential issue to face; there have been some landmark healings, but much of it has been process and being willing to let Him get close enough to minister, little by little, believing it is all adding up to a more whole human, with a valid testimony to a broken world. I have been bowled over by the impact of my experience in this aspect of salvation, on one other life, being able to encourage that God really IS able to heal the pain which drives to substance abuse and subsequent mental confusion. I believe I can generalise about God's willingness to heal, but the person in need has to be intent upon receiving it, to give God access to touch their spirit, mind and soul.I have seen brothers and sister struggle to rid themselves of one addiction or another. With all, I have seen the conviction that God is placing in them. It does not begin with man but it comes from God. That is the difference between living by the law and living in the Spirit. Some upon conversion are healed of alcohol or speed or whatever. It is given as a gift to them. It is given so that they might know that God exists and that He loves them. Others also converted continue to struggle, some for years. I know one individual who smoked for twenty years. During that time he was hot and cold with the Lord. Then about six months ago God became a fire within him. I remember how he told me that he was convicted everytime he witnessed Christ to someone. He tried stopping because of the conviction yet he failed. Then one day, at a retreat God healed him. The next time he tried to smoke he got sick. Now he witnesses the work that God did in his life with those he finds smoking. I know of another who has tried quiting for the 5 years that I have known him. Yet, he was unable. Then he contracted bronchitis and saw a doctor. The doctor noticed nodules on his lungs. This scared my brother so much that he quit that day. I believe God was in control of that brother also. I myself will share of a sin shortly that was stopped by the fear of a situation I found myself in. Over time I had been convicted by the Holy Spirit. I knew I was wrong, but for awhile, I tried not to hear. I tried to be deaf to what the Spirit was convicting me of. I was living in rebellion. Yet there came a time when God put an end to that rebellion. Each brother or sister in Christ is different from one another. It is only the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who knows how to deliver us. As we experience this continual work in our lives, both that which we recognize and that which we do not, it is only because of His love do we begin to understand why the "good news" is soooo Good! We can truly begin to recognize how God saves us. This has been my prayer since I believed. I began to struggle with the precepts of faith and grace. It seemed no one around me understood. No one struggled with these precepts. So I asked God that He would show me how he saves me. Again, it was not I who wanted to know, but it was Him who wanted me to know. I hope this make some kind of sense.In ChristJeff

Here is another example of the Holy Spirit's conviction of a particular sin that existed once in my life. What I am about to share is embarrasing, but all sin should be embarrasing once you have come into a relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Again another humbling experience brougth about by my Savior as a testimony of His grace extended to me.Masturbation was something that I had practiced since I was a teenager. It was something that I did to satisfy my flesh. Then at the age of 40 I committed by life to Christ. About 5 years into my walk the Holy Spirit would begin to convict me during this practice. I remember asking the Lord is it a sin? Again the conviction came down upon me. Yet, I continued. Everytime I was seeking to satisfy my flesh, the Spirit was there. I would justify my actions as a harmless activity. I would say, just a little sin, it isn't hurting anyone else. Surely, Lord, I can keep this can't I? I tried being hard of hearing. I tried tuning Him out. Well this continued for a time until I went for an annual medical checkup. Everything was normal except that my PSA test came back with a value of 8. A PSA test is used as an indicator for prostrate cancer. A value of 8 is considered high. When the doctor told me of these results, the Holy Spirit brought to my attention the nature of my rebellion. The Spirit linked my sin with this event. I meditated on this significant event for the next week. And this is what I learned.God is holy and I am called to be holy as He teaches me. God will not allow you to keep doing a sin that He has commanded you to stop. He expects me to obey, period!I made an oath to Him that week that I would stop. I learned alittle about the fear of the Lord that week. This verse comes to mind:Heb. 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire. Well I went back for another test and this time my PSA count was less than 2. Shortly there after, again the Spirit called me to testify of this event in my life. Again I was humbled because of what the Spirit commanded. I shared with the men's group of our church. This also became a time of renewing and refreshing. When the men heard my testimony, they all began to be more transparent with their own struggles, their own sins. Humility began to take root amonsgt the fellowship. Sin is an ugly thing. It reveals our nakedness before the Lord. He wants to clothe us with the robe of righteousness. How can we be filled with His Holy Spirit if we continue in sin?Finally, I have not commited that sin again. There are times when I am tempted but I call on the name of my Lord to deliver me from that temptation. He is faithful.Listen to the Spirit, has He been convicting you? Call on the name of the Lord and He will provide a way out. In ChristJeff

So far I have shared events which speak of healing my backsliding nature. I spoke of times where God convicted me of sin. I have learned that God works to sanctify us who obey the leading of His Spirit.What about the good works that He has prepared for us? This is another area of our lives where God seeks to teach us to love others. How has the Spirit led you? Have you experienced times where God has prepared a good work and you find yourself a small part of that work? In ChristJeff

What should we experience when we follow the Spirit?David Wilkersonhttps://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4424We should see Christ shouldn't we?In ChristJeff