KENTUCKY CLERK JAILED

I just read that the Kentucky county clerk was jailed for refusing to issue gay marriage licenses. Let's all be praying that God will use this mightily for His glory!!

Unfortunately with her multiple divorces and remarriages she is not the best role model.

I am a tad torn about this one. I certainly am no proponent of same sex marriage but perhaps she should have resigned.

Or the way I look at it it is the same sex couples who are sinning, not the clerk. God is giving them over to their perversion if they get married. I don't think it would be a sin for her to issue the license given the nature of her government job.

A private individual like a florist or baker has a tougher decision because they have not taken an oath to uphold the law and carry out duties.

I have no idea.

"Judge orders Kentucky clerk to jail for refusing to issue marriage licenses for gay couples

A federal judge ordered a defiant county clerk to jail for contempt Thursday after she insisted that it would violate her conscience to follow court orders to issue marriage licenses to gay couples.

Rowan County clerk Kim Davis and her deputy clerks were summoned to appear before U.S. District Judge David Bunning after she repeatedly denied them marriage licenses, cited her religious beliefs and "God's authority."

The judge said his only alternative was to jail her because he did not believe she would comply with his order even if she were fined. She was escorted out of his courtroom by a deputy, although not in handcuffs, to be turned over to the custody of federal marshals.

Hundreds of people outside the courthouse chanted and screamed, "Love won! Love won!"

Kim Davis testified about 20 minutes and was very emotional. She described how she became a Christian and said she is unable to believe anything else.

April Miller, one of the women trying to obtain a license, also testified. She said she voted for Kim Davis in the election and that this was only about getting her license, not about trying to change Davis' beliefs.

In front of the federal courthouse, demonstrators shouted at each other, sang hymns and waved signs, which ranged from the violent -- turn to Jesus or burn -- to simple statements of support. A small plane flew over the courthouse, carrying a banner that said: "Stand Firm Kim."

Davis stopped issuing licenses to all couples in June after the U.S. Supreme Court effectively legalized gay marriage. Despite rulings against her, she's turned away couples again and again.

The couples who originally sued in the case asked Bunning to punish Davis with fines but not jail time.

Davis, an Apostolic Christian, said earlier this week she never imagined this day would come.

"I have no animosity toward anyone and harbor no ill will. To me this has never been a gay or lesbian issue. It is about marriage and God's word," her statement said.

Her critics mock this moral stand, noting that Davis is on her fourth husband after being divorced three times.

Davis served as her mother's deputy in the clerk's office for 27 years before she was elected as a Democrat to succeed her mother in November. Davis' own son is on the staff.

As an elected official, she can be removed only if the Legislature impeaches her, which is unlikely in a deeply conservative state.

Judge Bunning is the son of Jim Bunning, the Hall of Fame pitcher for the Detroit Tigers and Philadelphia Phillies who served two terms as Kentucky's junior U.S. Senator. Former Republican President George W. Bush nominated David Bunning for a lifetime position as a federal judge in 2001 when he was just 35 years old, halfway through his dad's first term in the Senate.

But Bunning has been anything but a sure thing for conservative causes. In 2007, he was part of a three-judge panel on a federal appeals court that overturned Michigan's ban on partial-birth abortion. The panel ruled the state's law was too broad and would outlaw other legal forms of abortion.

In 2003, Bunning ordered the Boyd County School District to allow the student club Gay-Straight Alliance to meet on campus.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/03/judge-orders-kentucky-clerk-to-jail-for-refusing-to-issue-marriage-licenses-for/

A TN judge today refused to grant a divorce to a heterosexual couple, saying that in light of the Obergfell v Hodges decision, his court is incompetent to define even what a marriage is, let alone a divorce, and that the SCOTUS can best answer when a marriage is not a marriage.

Perhaps I posted too soon as I did not know this woman's background with the marriages. My oversight was innocent though, I simply did not know. I still think this being a high-profile case now that it behooves us to pray that God will use it. True or not, I read that she was saved in 2011? That is fairly recent....what do you do with a messy past? Does that negate her stand against the issuing of gay "marriage" licenses? Let's let the Lord sort it out....we are responsible to pray...

MOREHEAD, Ky. (AP) -- Kim Davis sat in a church pew on a Sunday morning about four years ago, listening as the man in the pulpit preached of forgiveness and God's grace.

Davis until then might have seemed an unlikely candidate to wage a moral war over the institution of marriage. She has acknowledged through her attorney that she had made "major mistakes" before she was born again.

But that Sunday morning, as the preacher spoke from the book of Galatians, Davis -- then 44 years old -- repented and pledged the rest of her life to the service of the Lord.

Now as the Rowan County clerk, Davis is refusing to surrender in a battle over who can and can't be wed. She invoked "God's authority" Tuesday as she defied a series of federal court orders and once again denied marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Since the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage across the nation, couples have stood in her office and wept. They have shouted and called her a bigot. They have tried to reason with her.

But Davis, who usually wears a skirt that reaches her ankles and her hair to her waist, refuses to relent, even under the threat of a contempt of court charge, steep fines or jail time.

"She has found herself in a situation she never envisioned," said Mat Staver, founder of the Christian law firm Liberty Counsel that is representing Davis in her bid to refuse marriage licenses.

After the Supreme Court's landmark decision in June, Davis announced she would issue no more marriage licenses.

Four couples, two gay and two straight, sued her, arguing she must fulfill her duties as an elected official despite her personal Christian faith. U.S. District Judge David Bunning ordered her to issue the licenses, an appeals court affirmed that order, and the Supreme Court on Monday refused to intervene, leaving her no more legal options.

"It is a heaven or hell decision," she said in a statement.

At the time she repented in the church pew, Davis had been divorced three times, according to court records. Her current husband, Joe Davis, arrived at the courthouse Tuesday to check in on his wife as a protest raged on the courthouse lawn. It's been an ordeal for her, he said. People have threatened to kill her and set their house on fire.
Joe Davis, who described himself as "an old redneck hillbilly," pointed to the rainbow-clad protesters on the opposite side of the lawn.

"They want us to accept their beliefs and their ways," he said. "But they won't accept our beliefs and our ways."

He said he and his wife have been together 19 years, but declined to elaborate on how much of that time they've spent married.

Court records detail Kim Davis' turbulent marital history: She has been married to her current husband twice, with a divorce and another husband in between.

She married her first husband, Dwain Wallace, when she was 18, and divorced him in 1994.

She acknowledged in a 2008 divorce filing having had two children in 1994 while she was not married.

In 1996, at age 30, she married Joe Davis for the first time. They divorced in 2006.

The next year, at 40 years old, Davis wed Thomas McIntryre, though their marriage lasted less than a year. She re-married Joe Davis in 2009.

"She made some mistakes," Staver said. "She's regretful and sorrowful. That life she led before is not the life she lives now. She asked for and received forgiveness and grace. That's why she has such a strong conscience."

On Tuesday morning, April Miller and Karen Roberts, tailed by television cameras and rival activists, were there Davis opened her office doors. They hoped Davis would accept that her fight was lost and issue the licenses.

Instead, Davis turned them away. On their way out, Miller and Roberts passed David Ermold and David Moore, 17 years a couple. "Denied again," Roberts whispered in Moore's ear.

Ermold said he almost wept. They demanded to talk to Davis, who emerged briefly on the other side of the counter.

"We're not leaving until we have a license," Ermold told her.

"Then you're going to have a long day," Davis replied. She retreated into her office, closed the door and shut the blinds as a tense standoff erupted in the office around her. Dozens from both sides of the issue packed into the lobby.

"Do your job," marriage equality activists chanted.

"Stand firm," Davis' supporters shouted back. They compared her to the Biblical figures Paul and Silas, imprisoned for their faith and rescued by God.

But lawyers for the rejected couples, in asking the judge to hold her in contempt of court, requested that she not be sent to jail, and instead be issued a fine "sufficiently serious and increasingly onerous" to "compel her immediate compliance without delay."

Bunning ordered Davis and her six deputy clerks to appear before him Thursday morning at the federal courthouse in Ashland.

County taxpayers pay Davis $80,000 as the elected clerk. Staver said Tuesday that she does not have a fortune squirreled away somewhere to pay whatever punishment Bunning hands down. But she also refuses to resign.

"relating to or being an act done after ascertaining the existence of a specified state of facts in obedience to a legal order without exercise of personal judgment or discretion"

Above is a ministerial duty or action. I don't really know if the issuance of a marriage license is just ministerial in her part or it would entail serving 'two masters at the same time'. If the latter is true, it is a valid moral consideration to resign from her job.

Does it differ from a government lawyer tasked to prosecute a christian advocating his faith or a government doctor asked to perform a therapeutic abortion. Are they allowed to exercise discreetion based on their conscience.

"At the time she repented in the church pew, Davis had been divorced three times, according to court records. Her current husband, Joe Davis, arrived at the courthouse Tuesday to check in on his wife as a protest raged on the courthouse lawn.

She made some mistakes," Staver said. "She's regretful and sorrowful. That life she led before is not the life she lives now. She asked for and received forgiveness and grace. That's why she has such a strong conscience."

Well, she hasn't been the best role model I can agree but she has repented since those few divorces. It has also been publicly said that she admits she was wrong in her actions before coming to Christ.

Paul murdered Christians yet on conversion and repentance became one of the most influential life changers ever!

I can see the media will try and trip this lady up with her past but I am encouraged by her strength to not cave in.

I ask God now to help his truth shine through this situation despite her checkered past.

RE: ///Does it differ from a government lawyer tasked to prosecute a christian advocating his faith or a government doctor asked to perform a therapeutic abortion. Are they allowed to exercise discreetion based on their conscience.///

I believe there is a big difference.

Kim Davis was not appointed.

Kim Davis is an elected official : her job is to represent the voters of her community in which she most likely is.

We need more elected officials willing to stand there ground and represent the views of there constituents.

In our Church there is an Elder who worked in a Government run hospital in India as an Anesthetist. He refused to administer Anesthesia to those who undergo abortion. He was threatened by his senior doctors and government. They told him that he will be fired from job. He answered that he is willing to die and leave the earth, why should he be worried about leaving a job? Do what you can.

He worked in the same hospital with same stand till his retirement. No one could make him do anything against his faith. God protected him in the midst of all enemies.

I believe we can take such stands based on how the Lord as lead us. We cannot speak for Ms Davis, let her take the sand that the Lord wants from her.

Hi All

Michael i stand in agreement with what you have said.
no one is ever going to be the best role model as we have all sinned before God we have all sat in a position of sin that is vile to God. If Jesus has washed her sins then she is a saint in Gods eyes. the fact that she has a shady past only re-enforces the fact of that we are all sinners but can be redeemed of this sin when we kneel before the cross the only righteous person is the lord Jesus Christ this is the "Good news of the Gospel".

What i can see is that Satan always draws the fight into the flesh and tries to deceive when it comes to our salvation. She is knew in her walk but she has taken up her cross and followed the Lord to the best of her knowledge. I wish i was there to stand by her and support her during this but the Lord will be and if she stands during this fiery trial then she has earned her marks of Christ which sadly many do not.

Is there other ways to approach the situation, yes but i know that because of my own personal trials. She will be in my prayers and is my hope that she does not faint under the heat of the day which will only re-enforce the message of the gospel again.

I love Kim Davies - she reminds of the the Adulterous Woman at the well. He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Now this ex-Adulterous Woman is defending marriage; truly those who have been forgiven much love much...

For some reason Mark 12:17 comes to mind on this....And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Mama,

I have heard, read about her sordid past as well...

Does scripture not teach us that God uses the most imperfect people to carry out his wishes? and how they did it may have been severely flawed? I am thinking of Rahab..yet she was praised for her faith. And there are many others.

When I read about these people in the scriptures and how flawed they were, I feel in my spirit to back off and see what will happen. I suspect things are happening that will never make the news.

On one site I read in the comments section a serious dicsussion on divorce/remarriage... Now when would one see that??!! Even here on SI this can generate a heated discussion. People are talking about serious issues, issues that used to be taboo on a news forum...they are being confronted...

If God has to resort to using such flawed people what does that tell us about the righteous? Or, maybe... Dunno, mama... I do know a modern hero of mine was a Jew, a Lutheran whose church persecuted Anabaptists but God used him anyways; his testimony has inspired many - I am talking about Richard Wurmbrand.

I think we are in a war, similar to the one that today is referred to as the Civil Rights movement. May we be found faithful.

My opinion.

God bless.

Sandra

Too bad I cannot "like" your popst, Sree.

Sandra

Julius,

Check out this series by Walter Beachy: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35408&forum=40

This is a series given by a Mennonite Historian - I know Walter Beachy quite well.

Here is one:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/lutherans-seek-forgiveness-for-persecution-of-anabaptists-46018/

I posted this as an answer to your pointed question, not to lend any credibility to the Mennonite Church USA.

The book, "The Anabaptist Story" by William R. Estep is a fine resourse.

It may be of interest to you to know that the western concept of freedom of thought and religion can be traced back to the Anabaptists in the 1525 - onward. They believed one should have the freedom to make the choices concerning faith and how it will translate into life situations. They did not always do it perfectly but the concept was foreign in their day and time. The Lutherans and Catholics required allegiance of the people in their districts and failure to do so invited persecution and they did kill.

Hope this will answer your question.If not, ask and maybe I can help you more.

God bless.

Sandra

Anabaptist believed one "ought to obey God rather then men." Peter said this and this is my understanding and belief as well. Anabaptist lived it and because they did they were hounded, pressured, had to run for their lives. The greatest persecutors were the Reformers and Catholics. Today, I do not hold the modern Lutherans and Catholics responsible for what their forbears did - each person will have to give an account before God Almighty for what they personally did - not what their forebears did.

I do believe we are in a war where our physical lives will be threatened because of our faith, belief in God's Word. It would be easy to be silent in face of supposed opposition, but the prophets of old did not - John the Baptist lost his head because he confronted Herod about his marriage relationship. Peter and others were bold and they were jailed.

(It should be noted that Peter was not always faithful either - he denied Jesus at one point, but he repented. Big difference.)

My understanding...

Sandra

No, Wurmbrand did not persecute but he was a Lutheran and historically they did persecute. The reason for his affliation with the Lutherans is because he said this was the first 'form of Christianity' he encountered. The fellow was a Jew, wicked, an atheist, and the fact that God was able to make a new creature out of such rough material is nothing short of amazing, in my opinion.

Sandra

True, she could resign. It would not be dishonorable. It would not reflect poorly on Christ.

But, we have a Constitution that says Congress shall make no law establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. That has been extended by our judiciary to apply to all branches of government at every level in our system.

Kim Davis is asserting that her "free exercise" is meaningless in the face of an entirely judicially manufactured "right" to gay marriage. A right that is not in the constitution and was made up out of the thin air is now trumping a right that is expressly stated in our Bill of Rights. If free exercise is this easily defeated, then our First Amendment is truly history.

It may be "about Jesus" in Kim Davis's mind. But, this is a denouement of sorts, a putting front and center once and for all exactly what free exercise really means now that a superseding right has been created by the judiciary. It will likely mean a lot "about Jesus" as we go forward under this newly heavy foot and iron hand of Federal government over conscience.

Jesus said "render unto Caesar" because that which bore Caesar's image was Caesar's to dominate. We do not bear Caesar's image. We bear God's image, and He alone and exclusively has say over us as to what is and what is not. For Kim Davis, I believe, to bow to the image of Caesar at the expense of the image of Jesus shown through her to the world would be a disgrace to her own heart. Not that I think she would be a disgrace if she yielded, but I think she has at least some understanding of the stakes.

RE: ///Whatever the outcome with Kim Davis will be i can't see how this will cause people to repent and how it will advance the Kingdom of God.///

She seems to feel that she is in the will of God with her choice.

When I was sleeping last night. Some images flashed before me, It was the expressions on her face in all of the recent photos of her.
I reliezed by those images flashed before me that she is not doing this as to be seen of men or to look like the Big hero of the faith. She is doing it because she feels it is the will of God.

Lets not be critical but in support of Christians willing to follow there conscience through persecution.

Hi Julius21

"I believe the "sore winners", want Kim Davis' signature on their marriage licenses as their trophy of turning a Christian to betray their faith"

i totally agree with this statement

when i was ministering to 2 gay males in our prayer group once, the difficulty was trying to stop them constantly talking about sex and constantly touching each other in the group. while in prayer about this situation the Lord showed me that the enemies tactics where like that of a scorpion. a scorpion uses its big claws to distract its pray and when it is ready it strikes with its hidden sting. I believe the spirits working behind reprobate minds are the same. they try to distract us from whats really going on by using insults, false accusations and taunting then they strike when not ready.

There are some really good answer posted on this subject and i believe this case is a testing case for cases to follow after this.