Law and Grace: Mortal Enemies

This is a life changing message :

The Spirit Of Law And The Spirit Of Grace by Denny Kenaston :

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https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=13205

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https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=23603

Is the law an 'enemy' to grace?

"Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."

"Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful."

"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin."
(Romans 7:12-14)

So the scripture teaches that the Law is 'holy' 'Good' and 'Spiritual'. It is NOT our enemy, but true, it does not have any power in itself because of our flesh. The Law just shows us God's righteousness and our sinfulness.
It is our sinful flesh that is our enemy, not the 'Law'.

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second."

"Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”” "
(Hebrews 8:7-8).

Notice that the New Covenant replaced the Law (Old Covenant) because He found fault with THEM (the people), NOT any fault with the Law.

I am not advocating we live by the law in any way, but it is wrong to state that it is our enemy or and enemy to grace.

"But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,"
(1 Timothy 1:8)

I don't think the article you posted is balanced.

Hi tuc,

I agree with your subsequent posts. It was the article that I thought was a bit unbalanced, giving too much emphasis on one angle without explaining the other side.

Yes the law is made for the unrighteous and law breakers. The righteous don't need an external law to constrain them as the law is written on their hearts and they fulfill the law as they walk by the Spirit. Therefore the law remains good and righteous, but not a means of producing righteousness, which can only be by the Spirit as Romans 8 explains.

I felt the article on the OP just contrasted grace and the law without explaining that grace will result in fulfilling the law in us. There is a big deception in parts of the church that thinks grace means just being free to be lawless.

An analogy;

Without the CT scan (Law) I never knew I had cancer (sin)
I had cancer before I knew it, and it's evidences were clear tho I could ignore it until the CT scan made it undeniable. I was diagnosed (convicted) with cancer (sin).

Now can the CT scan cure me? No!
But for me to get angry with the CT scan for making me aware of a problem it in itself cannot cure is crazy.

What I need is an oncologyst (Jesus) to give me chemo (grace) to cure the cancer (sin)
The CT scan (law) was never intended to cure but to diagnose and it is quite efficient in doing what it was purposes for.

Now I go to my oncologyst (Jesus) and receive my chemo (grace) where my cancer (sin) increases so does my chemo (grace) treatments.

However now that I'm receiving treatment (grace) I still go back to get scanned (law) to make sure my cancer (sin) is staying dead.

John Wesley said it this way,... The law will lead you to Christ, and Christ will lead you back to the Law and this will continue until the work is completed (paraphrased)

The problem is often we are offering Chemo to people who don't believe they have cancer,... But let the diagnosis of stage 4 terminal cancer come and you won't have to offer,... They will beg for it!
"So the law is good if used lawfully" "it is for the sinner (cancer patient) and not for the righteous (cured)"

Hey fletcher, I like your analogy!
No analogy is perfect, but it's quite a good one in showing this function of the law. I do however think there is also more to the law than just a diagnosis tool, but it certainly is that.

Brother Dave,

Well I'm glad you enjoyed it. While there is clearly more to the Law than a diagnosis tool, I think we sometimes miss the simplicity of it all. I mean of all the people who were used to pen scriptures, Paul is more misunderstood than anyone. I wonder sometimes if it doesn't grieve him (assuming he is aware).

2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

..."Let us look at a few of these differences. I have fifteen of them, believe it or not. But I don’t plan to spend a long time on them, because I’d like you to get the principle of operating under law, and operating under grace. I want you to see the difference between the two.

1. The spirit of the law demands. It allows no excuse, it must be this way, and no other! You'll do this, and you have no choice, no excuse! This is the way it must be, this is the way you must do it. The spirit of grace encourages. It comes alongside and encourages you in the direction of holiness and righteousness. "Go this way! That's right! That’s good! Keep on going! Keep your heart open! Just keep going! This is the way to go.” One is the spirit of law; the other is the spirit of grace. They have a tremendous effect on how we relate to people, don’t they?

2. The law condemns. Condemnation is judgment. Condemnation is heavy. It brings the heart down low. Grace convicts, enlightens the heart. It is that still small voice, that sweet prompting of the Spirit of God inside of the heart of God's people. The gentle Spirit comes along side, and enlightens the heart: "You know, you shouldn’t have done that.”

Think of it, think of how the grace of God works in your life. You make a mistake, you say something out of sort, and it might be five minutes and all of a sudden you have that little quiet moment there by the kitchen sink or at your workbench and the grace of God says: "You shouldn't have done that.” But the spirit of law condemns: "That was wrong! You are wicked!” and all of those kind of things that go along with it.

If we are moving in the spirit of law, that’s going to have a very different effect than if we're moving in the spirit of grace. I believe that when we work with people, God would have us work like the Holy Spirit, not like the law. Rather than condemn, judge, and give feelings of failure and judgment, come along side and give a gentle encouragement as the gentle wooing of the Spirit of God.

3. The law brings bondage. The word bondage means just what is says: Bound. The spirit of law brings bondage, it binds, it hinders. If you're moving under the principals of law, you're probably failing in your Christian life. You probably try, but fail, and try, but fail, and try, but fail. But the spirit of grace brings liberty. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. That is, power to do God's will. Liberty: Emancipation Proclamation. You are free! You can do what you want to do now, you can do the will of God, you can serve the Lord, and you can have victory over your sin in your life! The spirit of grace gives liberty, freedom, or emancipation to do the will of God. The other brings bondage.

4. The spirit of law is never good enough. Did you ever feel that way? It’s never good enough. Well, that’s the spirit of the law. You always fail under the spirit of law. The principal of law is always never good enough. You always fell short of it. You maybe got it here, but you lost it here. You gained a little here, but you lost down here. But the spirit of grace is always excited by each step that is taken. The spirit of grace is acceptance, encouragement, praise. Often heard: "If you want to raise your children right, give them about 9 doses of praise, to every 1 dose of correction; then another 9 doses of praise, and then 1 dose of correction.” Why? Because the spirit of grace is an encourager, it’s always excited by each step that is gained. When you take even a baby step in your Christian life, the grace of God is right there to say, "That's good! That's right! You're going the right way! Keep on going! Don't quit now! Keep on going!” But the spirit of law, when you take one step in the right direction is right there to say, "That's not good enough. You could've done better than that. Why didn't you do it this way? What about your motives?” The spirit of law and the spirit of grace are very different one from another.

5. The spirit of law: Curses. You’ve failed. Judgment is coming! There's a payment due for that which you did wrong! You failed! But the spirit of grace blesses, and shows the way to victory, even in total failure. The spirit of grace comes along and says, "There's a way out! Get up! God will help you! Keep on going!” Ah, but the spirit of the law comes along side of one who fell and curses, and brings judgment, and tries to make the load heavier on top of them. Big difference between the two.

6. The spirit of law is critical, always finding something wrong. It’s a little bit like "never good enough,” but I think it’s worthy of a point in itself. The spirit of law is critical. It’s always finding something wrong. But the spirit of grace gives the benefit of the doubt. The benefit of the doubt? I thought of these verses over in 1 Corinthians 13 where it’s giving a definition of love, and it says of love (among other things): "Love hopeth all things, and believeth all things.” Love gives the benefit of the doubt. Love believes in the other. Love hopes the best of the other. The spirit of grace gives the benefit of the doubt, rather than looking for something wrong, trying to find something to put a finger on it, and being critical. If the grace of God is stirring in the heart of an individual, the first response will be, "Oh, there must be some other explanation,” or "Surely, there must have been a reason for that.” Wouldn't you like to have the benefit of the doubt? So would your brother, so would your sister, so would your children, so would your wife or husband! Wouldn't you like to have the benefit of the doubt? The spirit of law is critical, always finding something wrong.

7. The spirit of law remembers sin again, and again, and again. Just like in the Old Testament, under the law, they would offer their sacrifice on the Day of Atonement, but a year later they'd have to come back again, and offer it again, and a year later they came back, and offered it again. The spirit of law remembers sin. But the spirit of grace forgets it. "What was that? I don't even remember! What was it you did? I didn’t even remember it.” The spirit of grace forgets! The spirit of law remembers it, reminds you, reminds you again, reminds you again, and again, and again, and again, and again. The grace of God just forgets it, buried in the deepest sea. Separated as far as the east is from the west, so are my sins separated from me.

8. The spirit of law exposes sin, and then leaves you there. That's all the law could ever do. But the spirit of grace comes along side, and forgives and covers, where we're willing to deal with it. The grace of God will come along side and encourage you to repent, to be forgiven, and to cover it, so that it is gone, so nobody else finds out about it.

9. The spirit of law is rejection. And the spirit of grace is acceptance. Law drives you away. It will drive you away from God, it will drive you away from people, and it will make people want to run away from you. They won't want to be around you. The spirit of law is rejection. But the spirit of grace is acceptance. It says: "Come! Come to God! Come the way you are! Come and be forgiven! Come and be cleansed!”

Probably the greatest motivation of the growth in our Christian life comes from the acceptance that we have of the Heavenly Father, is it not so? I don't know of anything that motivates me more to go on in my Christian life than to know that God accepts me right where I am. I don't mean God accepts sin! But God accepts me right where I am. If I'm clear in my heart, God accepts me. Sure, maybe 6 months from now, He'll begin to show me something else I need to deal with, and I'll see it. But all those 6 months, God was loving me! He was accepting me! He was blessing me! He was encouraging me! That very acceptance caused me to have my heart open, so God could minister to me about another need in my life. The spirit of law makes you want to run away from God, but the spirit of grace makes you want to run to God.

10. The spirit of the law tends to be exclusivist. The spirit of grace is free to all! Hallelujah. "Red, brown, yellow, black and white, they're all precious in His sight!” But not so with law. The principals of law, and those who live after the principals of law, they tend toward being a sect, or they tend toward being an individualist. "This is how I see it, this is the way it’s going to be, and I don’t care if I have to be by myself, this is the way we’re going to do it.” It’s not that way with the spirit of grace. Rather it says: "Others, Lord, yes others. Let this my motto be.” Quite a difference between the two of those isn’t it?

11. The spirit of law has no mercy. When you have failed under the spirit of law, there is no mercy. But under the spirit of grace: there’s complete mercy. Release! Forgiveness! Encouragement! Acceptance! Total mercy through the blood of Jesus Christ. Total mercy compared to no mercy, no forgiveness. The spirit of law and the spirit of grace are very different.

12. Under the spirit of law the highest goal is performance. Under the spirit of grace the highest goal is a relationship. The one: performance. The other: relationship. There is a big difference between the two of those! If we are living our lives to perform, and we’re basing our acceptance on performance, when we don’t measure up we don’t feel God’s acceptance. Or if we base other’s acceptance on performance, when they don’t measure up, we don’t accept them. Because the highest goal is how you perform. Not so with the spirit of grace. With the spirit of grace the highest goal is relationship. O Lord, help us to see that one.

As I pondered this message, I had to think of many of the plain churches, and how they are so much on the performance side. If you come among them and you don’t look quite right, or you say "kids” instead of "children,” or a few things like that, there is this silent, mysterious wall that comes up. It comes up because of the theology of performance, and you didn’t perform right so things don’t go right. But let the grace of God come over our hearts as individuals, and as a church with relationship as the highest goal. Relationship with the God of Heaven, relationship with God’s people, and relationship with a lost and dying world out there!

There is a big difference between the spirit of law and the spirit of grace if you come and visit a church like that! The one you’ll go away wondering what happened, not feeling accepted. But the other you’ll go away saying, "They loved me! They accepted me just the way I am! I want to go back again! There’s something magnetic about those people!” I tell you what it is: it’s magnetic because it’s like God. That’s exactly the way God is with every one of us. God wants a relationship with us! That’s number one! He’ll walk with us when we have long hair! And He’ll walk with us before we get rid of our cigarettes! He’ll walk with us when we’re failing in this area. He’ll walk with us when we’re not as meek and quiet as we ought to be! And He’ll walk with us when we’re not as modest as we ought to be! Because number one on God’s list is a relationship!

We have to be the same way, because it’s godliness to be like God. Amen? So it’s godly to accept somebody right where they are. It’s godly to come up and put your arm around some fellow who has long hair who’s born again for only 2 weeks. It’s godly to come up and put your arm around him and bless him, and encourage him, and accept him, and love him. It’s God-like to do that. In the law, the highest goal is performance. We all come up with our own levels of performance, "You had better measure up with my level of performance...”

I had to think this one comes pretty close to home when you begin to ponder our children. I think we need to have some performance in our minds, I am not against that. But let number one be relationship. I don’t know anything that motivates a child to do what Mama and Papa say more than a sweet relationship with Mama and Papa! Nothing! But oh, the burden of a little child whose father and mother move under the principals of law, and sets up the rules of performance, and withdraw their acceptance, and their blessing, and their encouragement when the performance isn’t what it ought to be. Poor child. That child’s view of God will be very mixed up.

13. The spirit of law tends to details. The spirit of grace tends to flexibility. What do I mean by that? Well, I guess a good way to put it is: The Letter of the Law vs. The Spirit of the Law. You know letter of the law. We can follow the Pharisees, and study Jewish history, and it doesn’t take us long to find out what the spirit of law does if you leave it by its self. It will make up 5,000 Sabbath rules over the course of about 200-300 years, of things you should do and shouldn’t do. It’ll make a thick book to read so you can learn how to behave on the Sabbath! But in the spirit of grace is the principal, and in principal is flexibility. There is a big difference between the two of those. Law tends to details. You’ll do it this way, down to the detail. You’ll wear these, you’ll part your hair here, you’ll wear this kind of covering, you’ll wear black shoes and only black shoes. The principals of law tend toward details, but the spirit of grace, or the principals of grace, tends toward flexibility. There is flexibility on how it’s lived out.

14. The spirit of law tends to be negative. The spirit of grace tends to be positive. If you’re one who struggles with being negative I would encourage you to take a study of the Gospels and study the Pharisees. Do a study on the Pharisees in light of this whole matter of negative, doubtful, unbelief. You’ll find an answer to your need. Because the principal of law tends toward the negative, that’s just the way it is. Because you can never measure up, and there’s no faith where there’s law. They can’t dwell together! Where there’s a spirit of grace, there’s this positive, faith-filled, encouraged, up-lifted look toward the God of Heaven, trusting Him in the circumstances of life.

15. And last of all, we said it already but I think its worth making it a point. The spirit of law is like a Pharisee. The spirit of grace is like Jesus. Consider this: the Law creates rebellion, stirs up the flesh, and drains spiritual life. I don’t know how many times a brother or a sister who has been born again””I mean one of those fresh new births, when they’re about a month old in the faith””go back to their old church, sit in the service, listen to the message, and when they get out they feel like they need to go to church because all the life has been drained out of them. That is what law does. Read it there in Romans 7. It’s supposed to! God gave it so that it would create rebellion, so it would stir up the flesh, so that sin would be revived, so we could see our evil condition. But brothers and sisters, if we’re in the grace of God, if we’re washed in the Blood of Jesus, if we’re no longer walking after the flesh but after the Spirit, we should have no part with any of that which the law does, but rather the spirit of grace working in our heart to produce a holy life. I know that we’d all have to agree, that the end result of grace is always higher than the end result of law””always! It will always be higher; it will always reach higher than law."... - Denny Kenaston

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Quote by Julias21
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"And don't you think that grace and the Holy Spirit take us even further than just fulfilling the law?"
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Yes I do think it takes us much further, so we would by that then fulfill the law and much more righteousness beside. The law says do not murder. Grace says do not even speak or think evil of your neighbour.

Did Paul view the Law as a mortal enemy of grace?

No, he viewed the Law was as "guardian" and "tutor". These are not enemies of the Father, but servants assigned to help raise the heir until he was ready for the "adoption".

When the Father deemed his son ready for "adoption", he would then "declare him a son" (the Greek meaning of adoption) and release him from the "guardian" and "tutor".

The declared son was now legally recognized as heir of the estate and shared the authority of the family with the Father.

The Law is a "veil covering the heart" to those who have not yet turned to Christ and men who attempt to turn others away from faith in Christ to the works of the Law are "anti-Christs".

However, the Law itself is and will always be, "holy, righteous, and good." Paul encouraged Timothy to devote much time to the "public reading" of scripture (which contained the Law of God). These scriptures (writings) that contained the Law and the Prophets were "profitable" for "instruction, reproof, and training in righteousness."

The Law itself is not a "mortal enemy of grace", but men who do not "use it lawfully" can be enemies of grace.

The Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul, the commandments of the Lord are true making wise the simple, the judgments of the Lord are true rejoicing the heart, ....and more to be desired are they than gold.... sweeter than honey and the honey comb.

Our Lord Jesus loved the Law of the Lord and we too should love it. He warned us not to think He came to destroy the Law or the prophets, but to fulfill them. He did not consider the Law of His Father an enemy to the grace and truth He was filled with.

The real mortal enemy of grace is "sin", and this "sin" in the flesh is why the Law was weak and unable to make men righteous. Paul viewed the Law as "good" and this is how we should view the Law.

Men who "miss the mark" and attempt to turn others away from the grace of Christ are "sinning", they are "anti-Christ". They are not using the Law "lawfully". They are the mortal enemies of grace - not the Law itself.

makrothumia

Did Paul view the Law as a mortal enemy of grace?

Paul clearly taught that the Christian is not to live under the Law.
ADD:( Paul taught by coming under law we are falling from Grace, and that is how the law is a mortal enemy of grace)
and that is the Biblical truth that the artical is making.

I am thankful, for everything that Tuc has been posting.

To avoid confusion, the article could have had a more precise title:

"Living under Law v.s Living under Grace: Mortal Enemies"

Which one are you currently living under? (Romans 6:14)

Saints,

Would some of you please answer a question for me,...
Can you find/explain that Law is the mortal enemy of grace WITHOUT quoting the apostle Paul?
Using only the text of the other NT writers.

Thank you in advance~

JFW - I wouldn't use the phrase "mortal enemies" to describe the relationship between law and grace (though my previous post about "living" under them still stands).

But throughout the New Testament, there is a strong contrast drawn between law and grace, Moses and Christ. The law cannot regulate human action, but an excellent tutor to make us realize our need for Christ.

"The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17)

You can also look up James 2:8-13, where he contrasts mercy (grace) with judgement (law). There is also the distinction between the Mosaic law and the "law of liberty".

Why would you ask that JFW?

Pauls words are Scripture.

Here's why:
2 Peter 3:
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen

Several errors have entered in through a miss-rendering of Pauls words when not balanced by the whole counsel of the word. So if a conclusion is come to from Paul exclusively that could not also be found in any/all the other epistles then that would be errant, no?
As the apostle Paul himself states,.. "There is only one gospel" but I've noticed over the years that some would have us believe that Paul delivered a gospel that somehow differs from the other NT writers. So if this premise of Law being the mortal enemy of Grace is viable then surely it is clearly found in every other epistle as it would be an imperative.

Im simply asking for help in finding/seeing this declaration elsewhere in the scriptures-

Thank you for your explanation.

I asked, because recently, I read some things written by an individual in the jewish roots movement whom totally threw out Paul and claimed Paul as a heratic.

"in which are some things hard to be understood"

Many of the early jewish believers struggled with this Gospel of Grace.
and so do we.

I believe we see trusting in Grace contrasted from trusting in works from the very first chapters of the Bible and through out.

Cain and Abel. a heart that worked out of a desire of appeasement contrasted with a heart that worked out of gratitude.

That is what I got out of the artical.

Julius21: "The law was exactly to regulate human action, but it could not regulate the heart. And it revealed the futility and utter inability of man to conform his outward actions to the law (let alone the desires of his heart)."

Our behaviour stems from within our hearts: "For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit." (Luke 6:43) The law was impotent to regulate human action, because it could not confer to us the ability to fulfill its requirements.

Julius21: "Therefore, the doctrine that we're not under the law but under grace is incorrect."

The Christian is *already* dead to sin, dead to the law, and alive to God (Romans 6:11, Romans 7:1-6). This is the new birth effected within us by God when we first believed in His Son Jesus Christ.

No it doesn't. You can dislike observing the Sabbath in your heart, but because you will be stoned if you work on it you will go ahead and observe it, in order to save your life.

You can also lust in your heart, but not actually commit adultery with another person.

You have not always acted according to what takes place in your heart, have you?

Fallen men with a sinful disposition can sometimes do good and exercise a degree of self-control, but never consistently so until they encounter Jesus Christ.

I think the difference in these discussion is in regard to sanctification.

The one side seems to be saying that we become sanctified by faith in the finished Work of Jesus and by having faith and resting in our new idenity (His righteousness), Grace and the works of Grace will naturally flow from us, By resting in (His righteousness), He will give us his desires. Often times this view will emphasize "Christ in You the hope of Glory"

The other side seems to be saying that We have a King and in order to be part of and continue to be part of His Kingdom we must submitt our will to his laws. We must daily crucify our own natural desires and die daily to our self, inorder to be part of and continue in His Kingdom.
By daily dieing to self, we empty ourselves and than he fills us with his Grace and His Grace gives us the ability
to keep His Laws.
This view will often times emphasize Kingdom living

Am I misrepresenting either of the 2 views ?

edit : add

So we are under the law (schoolmaster) until which time we are not (graduate/receiving the gospel) through the fulfillment of the law (grace) which can only come through Christ who in fact fulfilled it and now we are made partakers of His righteousness through faith which displays itself in and through us not only in actions but in heart position. As now we want to obey (new heart) whereas before we were required (stony heart) to obey. So in a sense the law is under us (so long as we are in Christ) in that it forms a net as it were to catch us lest we fall below the level prescribed by it. Which if at any time we do, then we are again under the law and must come to Christ for deliverance from it. Now when we abide in Christ we are at liberty to express the attributes embodied by the law, now being empowered by the grace that comes only from Christ. Tho at times we may fail the grace of God, we know because of the law that we have indeed failed, tho in these times we have confidence in Him to complete the good work He Himself began in us. This will happen if and only if we abide in His word, being renewed in the spirit of our minds to the truth of the gospel. If we turn to right we find the ditch of disobedience, to the left the ditch of deception... Only in the narrow way between these two will we find Christ. The function of grace is to empower us not to sin, and not to "cover" it in some way where God plays a trick on Himself and pretends wickedness is righteousness. So grace empowers us to obey Him and so this is the purpose of grace. Now we find in obedience of faith from a pure heart we are conformed into the image of Christ, which is to be made holy or sanctified. Which is to "run the race", however as it is written we must run/compete according to the rules/lawfully. Which is why Paul says "salvation through sanctification of the spirit and belief in the truth". Now if salvation is through sanctification of the spirit or to be made holy by the spirit (conformed to the image of Christ) and Christ is the fufliment of the law, then a life of grace will look very much like the law although it is far superior it nonetheless coincides in that the spirit of Christ will never lead us to break the law but to walk in such a way that the law is the least of what we do because our hearts have been purified by the truth and we walk no longer after the flesh but after the spirit.
I've found the scriptures to teach that we will be held to a much higher law in that Christ being formed in us is Himself a much higher standard, tho the two are not at odds as some suppose but rather work like a baby walker, the baby walker requires upright positioning and restricts the child as well as protects him until which time he doesn't need it and can walk without it, tho to suggest that now that he isn't "bound by the walker" that its profitable or even acceptable for the child to not exercise his new found abilities to the point of abounding in them so as to not only walk but run freely at liberty is to deny the purpose of the walkers training and suggests a retarding in his development. Further to now suggest the walker is bad is an absurdity that is only surpassed by the child retuning to the walker when he can now walk without it. The only time the walker (law) would be of use to him (personally) is if he was to fall in such a way so as to again be in need of its assistance in order to be supported while he is healed.
So (for me) not only are the Law of God and the Grace of God not mortal enemies, they are in fact complimentary in that they are BOTH HOLY (according to scripture) and while the Law in itself cannot produce holiness/righteousness it nonetheless makes us aware of the need for it which leads us to Christ which is the only place it is to be found.

There seems to be some confusion about the original article; it seems to me that the author is discussing the Christian and how he relates to the Law, he is not discussing the use of the Law in the unregenerate. The article seems pretty good but I'm not sure I would use the language "mortal enemies", this language seems to be the source of the confusion.

I think all that the author is trying to say is that the Christian has no direct relationship to the law. Having been saved he is not now put under an obligation to keep the law which could not save him, with the comfort of knowing that if he does not succeed Christ will intervene again and forgive his transgressions, but will do so with the object of again placing him under an obligation to keep the law. Although the law was given by God, it cannot help us to take even one step along the way of salvation. It contributed nothing to our justification, and equally can contribute nothing at all to our sanctification.

To quote Paol Madsen; "
The gospel is God's own righteousness. In it is revealed the righteousness of God or righteousness from God. It is not a means which we can use to become righteous in ourselves, but it gives us righteousness from God by faith and unto faith. In this way the law is fulfilled. The gospel, therefore, does not confront us with the law, but with Christ. He who believes the gospel is righteous before God for time and eternity. He has not first to win righteousness, for he is fully righteous. He does not have to prove that he is fulfilling the law, for God's righteousness needs no proofs. The law has no demands to make on such a man; he is not living within its sphere and is not occupied with its "Thou shalts" and its "Thou shalt nots", but is filled with the love of God in Christ Jesus."

In Christ

JFW,

You might want to check out this testimony of an American missionary (Dustin Horstmann) on how the grace of God set him free from lust and pornography:

Part 1: http://bit.ly/1rLt9sP

Part 2: http://bit.ly/1CztLbs

He also provides sound exposition of the theological themes discussed in this forum thread. His experience is a great illustration of the gospel - a living epistle of the Lord Jesus Christ.

RE: ///By the way, Proudpapa, just a little correction, you use the term "spirit of the law", but I think you should be using the term "letter of the law".///

That was Bro Denny Kenaston that used the phase "spirit of the law" I posted what he wrote. I think it is accurate when used as he did to contrast with the Spirit of Grace, He clearly was referring to being under the influence and power of one or the other.

RE: ///For instance,
The letter of the law: do not commit adultery
The spirit of the law: do not lust in your heart, for you are committing adultery.///

Both are Law and not grace.

Brother John,
Thanks for sharing this:)
Where do you see differences (if any) between what this brother is putting forth relating to what I have posted in this thread?

http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/faith-and-the-imputation-of-righteousness

JFW: Where do you see differences (if any) between what this brother is putting forth relating to what I have posted in this thread?

RE: /// yuehan "You might want to check out this testimony of an American missionary (Dustin Horstmann) on how the grace of God set him free from lust and pornography:
Part 1: http://bit.ly/1rLt9sP
Part 2: http://bit.ly/1CztLbs
He also provides sound exposition of the theological themes discussed in this forum thread. His experience is a great illustration of the gospel - a living epistle of the Lord Jesus Christ."///

An excellant teaching on this subject that was instrumental in setting me free from pornography and self abuse was Michael Pearls "sin no more" teachings

Brother John,

Ha! I thought they were very similar save for dif verbiage.
I wasn't sure if you were suggesting otherwise as this thread seems to have veered a bit.
Having said that there does seem to be a dif in how the dif views represented are defining grace as well as the law and while grace is surely unmerited, (for me) a more thorough definition would be "the divine influence on/in the heart of man."

Proud papa, I'm glad you brought out the dif camps and there views of the function and purposes-
I think allot of times, as Julius pointed out, that we're sayin the same thing but using dif verbiage which is reflective of the camp we find ourselves in. As if two people are approaching the same thing from dif places....as they converse about the landmarks they see along the way there is a potential for one to tell the other that they are going in the wrong directions based off what they themselves see which is inconsistent with the others perspectives, tho perhaps it behooves us to consider that it looks dif coming from the west than from the east and we could all benefit from a top down or eternal perspective which allows God to be God and gives space for Him to grow His children as He sees fit. Not that there isn't a proper place for reproof and rebuke but I'm not aware of a ministry of correction being prescribed as an office in the scriptures.

RE: ///There is no "spirit" behind the law. What the phrase "spirit of the law" refers to is more than the "letter of the law".
For example, the "letter of the law" indicates, (Matt 5:20-44), a matter of physical action must be obeyed. whereas obeying the "spirit of the Law” requires more than just outward actions””it also involves an attitude of the heart””referred to by the Apostle Paul as "circumcision of the heart” (Rom. 2:28-29).
The spirit of the law is not only obedience to the letter of the law but rather, not even lusting after someone (committing "adultery in his heart”).///

When the term 'spirit of law' is contrasted to 'spirit of Grace' it is referring to motive.

the term "letter of the law" does not encompass all that is implied in describing those whom are under the control and power of law. (thus it would not properly fit in contrasting to Grace)
All of humanity that has reached a state of accountability has law written in there hearts even if they never heard nor read the letter of the Law. (If they had no law they would have no sin.)
hence why the infant is innocent 'naked and not ashamed.'
the infant has no law and since he has no law : sin has not been imputed to him and he is still alive to innocence.

JFW: Having said that there does seem to be a dif in how the dif views represented are defining grace as well as the law and while grace is surely unmerited, (for me) a more thorough definition would be "the divine influence on/in the heart of man."

Here's an article which studies the various ways in which the word "grace" is used in the Bible: http://www.bible-researcher.com/grace.html

Brother Julius,
Ha! That wasn't a dig at anyone dear brother and I share, as I've stated before, a very similar position theologically with you in these matters, so I sincerely apologize to you and to anyone who may have tripped over my clumsy words:(
My intent was to articulate that from a reformed grace/eternal security camp perspective things would naturally look different than from a holiness/must abide camp perspective. It wasn't my intent to belittle or ostracize either camp rather to necessitate both as part of the body and to suggest that while both are in fact beneficent, neither are in and of themselves complete. Sometimes it's just not an either/or - right/wrong situation as when the disciples came to Jesus to "tell on" those who were working in His name but weren't part of "their camp" and Jesus told them to basically mind their own business because if they weren't working against Him they were in fact for Him. So in the same way while I may have a different understanding of a word based on my personal relationship with Christ than another saint, one doesn't necessarily invalidate the other, in fact I've found they are often complimentary and edifying. Having said this, your point of the letter/spirit is well received and I wasn't attempting to "correct you" for making it. Tho sometimes I know I come off harshly when I'm invested in something I'm attempting to share and I've been told (often by my godly bride) that I'm talking "at" rather than "with" someone and perhaps I was forcing that onto this thread,...again if so, please forgive me.

Brother John,
Thank you for sharing I'll def enjoy that, it's a joy to me to seek out the Lords work in the lives of others. Faith builder+:)

Quote: "hence why the infant is innocent 'naked and not ashamed.'
the infant has no law and since he has no law : sin has not been imputed to him and he is still alive to innocence."

Proud papa,
Brother if you're saying what I believe you to be, you get a hearty AMEN! from me. This is a quite succinct articulation of a very dear subject to me.
Thank you!

RE: ///But, we don't see in the Word, the Spirit of grace being contrasted with the "spirit of the law". The "spirit of the law" does not even refer to a man's motive. The Spirit of the law is usually contrasted with the letter of the law.
What is contrasted with the Spirit of Grace is willful sinning.///

The issue in the book of Galatians was not willful sinning the issue was motive.

The entire theme in the book of Galatians is those whom wanted to be under the power and influence of the law contrasted to being under the power and influence of Grace.
That is what is being implyed when bro Denny contrasted spirit of law and Spirit of Grace.

mount Sinai contrasted to Jerusalem

///Proud papa,
Brother if you're saying what I believe you to be, you get a hearty AMEN! from me. This is a quite succinct articulation of a very dear subject to me.
Thank you ///

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once (infant): but when the commandment came,(state of understanding good and evil) sin revived,(from previous generation) and I died. (died to innocence)

theology confuses the simpicity of the scripture with adding words such as "sinful nature" "spiritual death" and so on

RE: ///....as they converse about the landmarks they see along the way there is a potential for one to tell the other that they are going in the wrong directions based off what they themselves see which is inconsistent with the others perspectives, tho perhaps it behooves us to consider that it looks dif coming from the west than from the east and we could all benefit from a top down or eternal perspective which allows God to be God and gives space for Him to grow His children as He sees fit. Not that there isn't a proper place for reproof and rebuke but I'm not aware of a ministry of correction being prescribed as an office in the scriptures.///

Very Good,

RE: ///We're not connecting. That's ok, maybe next thread.///

Yes, we often times do agree.

If you get a chance listen to 'The Spirit Of Law And The Spirit Of Grace' by Denny Kenaston :
audio
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=13205

It is a life changing message rather or not he could have articulated it more accurately.

I have a good friend whom was raised in strict CoC that I shared it with, It was like a light was turned on after he heard it. He has been growing in Grace ever since.