Is It UnChristian To Not Want Syrian Refugees?

I speak as a concerned American Christian. I do not speak for America or other Christians. Here it goes:

For those who think it may be non-Christian to not allow Syrian refugees into America, keep in mind, it has already been proven that at least some in this group are not refugees at all. Some are trained terrorists who have infiltrated the refugees and have already plotted and killed while being in their new homeland.

While Jesus commanded us to love, clothe and feed our enemies, he said nothing about having to live next door to them or having to invite them into our communities. It's ironic that no other Muslim nations are accepting these refugees either. They too have great concerns about who may be in this group of refugees.

Americans are not asking that these refugees be shot or left out at sea to dehydrate or drown; however, we are insisting that there be measures taken to protect our people. No nation should should be forced to accept thousands of newcomers without knowing who they are or their intentions. While Jesus would love these people, I am convinced he would also want to protect his own. We need a plan that will allow us to help and protect.

So before you get all religious and condemn other Christians and Americans of not loving like Jesus, know this...it is actually love that compels us to be cautious. We love our families, friends and country. We want to keep them safe. Let's help them every way we can, but let's not let them run loose before we know who and what we a dealing with.

Just my opinion as an American and a Christian.

A more important question is how can we as Christians reach out to them once they are here.

I does not matter if we want them to come or not, we do not have much of a say in the matter.

It is not unChristian.

Pray for them, though, to be converted.

That is all I know we can do without going or sending to them.

no

Hi Cliff,

I understand your concerns here. We have the same concerns in the UK about who is coming into the country. However I think it is important that we distinguish between what is the national/government responsibility and what is the response of individual Christians. A governments responsibility is to protect it's citizens and in this instance it must consider this against any action it takes in regard to migrants or refugees. As Christians we are called to love our neighbours AND our enemies. When we confuse these two areas of responsibility we end up with error either way. It would be wrong to impose Christian 'sacrificial love' on governments. It won't work. Likewise it is also wrong for a Christian to act in a non-sacrificial way in his individual dealings with people.

Proudpapa was quite correct in what he said. Our response as Christians should be to seek ways to love those who are and become our neighbour. We cannot (should not) control who will be our neighbour.

You said, quote: "While Jesus commanded us to love, clothe and feed our enemies, he said nothing about having to live next door to them or having to invite them into our communities."

Well in the light of what I have said above, this seems to be putting conditions onto our love and therefore cannot be considered sacrificial 'agape' love. I'm not suggesting that we would intentionally invite someone seeking our harm to come and live with us, but what if they do end up living next to us....then what should our reaction be?

Hope you understand what I am saying and I do understand your position.

There was a sermon years ago I listened to and it was a story of a woman saved money for years to become a missionary and who prayed for it but God never sent her.

Finally, one day God told her He didn't need to send her anywhere that He had brought the world to her... Russians across the hall, Chinese next door, Indians on the floor below, etc. And that she didn't minister to them, what made her think that she would be a good missionary? *(ouch!)

From that day forward everyone is New York City (early 1900's) knew her and her love for Jesus, in that building and on the streets.

I absolutely don't think we should be ruled by fear and I think this could be our finest hour... if we would step out in faith and the love of Christ.

I do get what you are saying. It's highly frustrating though when Governments don't do their job to protect. For me, this is not so much an issue of love for my enemies. I will pray for my enemies. I will do what I can to help the helpless. I would not however knowingly live next door to a sex offender, nor would I ever invite them into my neighborhood.
Why? Because I love my family. I care about the safety of my neighbors. The concern I have about the refugees is that we don't know who they are or their intentions. If these refugees continue to come, all we can do at that point is pray for our safety. We can pray that God's grace and love will shine through us. We can pray for their salvation. I just feel very hesitant to just blindly open our arms to individuals who may be here to destroy us.

I confess two minds here.

One is that our immigration policy has and continues to swing open wide a door of danger to the whole nation in the form of jihadists. We are a powder keg waiting to explode, IMO. With the escalation of soft target terrorism, it is concerning. It's why I am in favor of shutting down the borders even -- which I know will not occur. So, that's one.

The other is this: I remember when the Syrian refugee crisis really began to get our attention. Voice of the Martyrs reported testimony from Syrian Christians who had fled to Turkey at the time (2013). It was something I have not forgotten, and that I recalled when reading and thinking about this today.

So happens, VOM still has this on their website. I want to quote from it.

In light of all of the media attention on Syria right now, I thought Persecution Blog readers might be interested to read some of my talking points about what we learned interviewing Syrian Christians during the trip.

Our team met with two Syrian Christians, one still working in Syria and one currently displaced and working among Syrians in Turkey. Some points from what we learned about Syria and the church there:
1.God is at work. One of our contacts told us about an area in Syria where 18 months ago there were only 12-13 Christians. Today, there are more than 70 Christian FAMILIES! As has happened in other areas (Iran, Egypt), people are seeing the true face of Islam and it is generating a real openness for the things of Christ.
2.We also heard reports of growth in the church among the Kurds.
3.God is using miracles to bring people to Christ. This was a repeated theme of stories from Syria. One man was healed of cancer and came to Christ. A woman who’d been paralyzed for 10 YEARS after a stroke was healed and came to Christ.
4.There is persecution…especially from within families. Right now new converts from Islam are most worried about how their families will respond. That is where the first line of persecution is happening. Many times Syrian Christians will not tell their families””at least for a while””and many don’t meet with other believers because of the risk of their families finding out.
5.But…it’s also happening from the authorities. One pastor who lives in a government-controlled area said he gets called to the police station EVERY WEEK for a "meeting” where they question him about his activities, about his churches and about Muslim converts.
6.Syrians are fleeing to the surrounding countries. We visited one Turkish city where we were told that tens of thousands of Syrians had come in the past 6-8 months. We also saw a refugee camp where Syrians are housed in Turkey. Interestingly, they separate Christians from Muslims in the camps, or at least in the one we saw.
7.The hardship of just living in Syria right now is amazing. One of our contacts said he has electricity only three hours a day…and that is pretty good! There is almost no medicine available. The roads are cluttered with check points…we were told of one 60-KM stretch of road where there were 23 check points…manned by different groups with different priorities and different objectives. So having the permission of one group to travel might not matter at the next check point…and might even get you killed. Just driving from one place to another is a dangerous endeavor.

Please pray for our brothers and sisters in Syria, and pray for VOM international staff as they seek to support and bless the church there in spite of the danger and the upheaval.

So, perhaps --- in this country where we like to boast of being a city on a hill --- God is calling us to do what we say we are. I don't know. Or, is this the place Christian testimonies come to die. We really do have to make a decision here. Will we, in the face of bad policy, make the right decision on what to do with the neighbors we have? Do we really believe Paul's words in Acts 17:6?
How will this affect my prayers?

Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

Wisdom is not allowing terrorists in. Duh. The dove part comes in dealing with the non terrorists who do make it in.

What a good reminder! That sis is what we call a Word in due season:) I have friends from Africa that come here every other year and the elders of that part of Africa always admonish them to NOT become Americanized in their Christianity, that term is not a complement I assure you. You are right , in the end we are Ambassadors of Christs in this world, this is not our home, we belong to and with God in Heaven. Thank you for that post. God Bless

Whether it is America or France or India or even Syria, we are not dependent on the government for our security. Our security should be from God. Though we can expect security in returns for our tax, let us not depend on that. Even if America openly allows ISIS to spread inside, none of a believers hairs will fall without God's permission.

Like some pointed out here, no nation can run on Christian principles. They need to be cautious on the refugees. I would suggest setting up a neutral refugee colonies next to Syria or even inside Syria itself and protect their colony by joint international military forces. This way all issues with immigration can be avoided.

Let us pray especially for the Christians in these refugee midst that they may find mercy in the eyes of other nations.

I must admit ,I struggle a bit reconciling scripture ,when dealing with cults like Islam and jehova witness and others ,,,the apostal John said that those who denie the father and the son wher of the anti Christ ,and that any one that comes to you who does not bring the the doctrine of Christ not to even invite into our homes or even greet ,,and islam seem to be within the context of Christian false teaching and false prophets ,,being that they do teach Jesus but denie the sonship,and the father hood of God ,and obviously Mohamed was a false prophet ,who taught about Jesus ,,,,,

How can I with a good concence believe what the apostal John wrote ,and some how say that Islam is any different from what was really being expresses through false prophets and apostals in johns day ,,,how can we say knowstasim is the antichrist spirt and teaching, but Islam is not there for we must treat Muslims different to the other false cults ,in which the bible forbids us to associate with ...... John said there were false teachers that we should not even greet and unless we will share in there evil deeds ....

by docseth1
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I do get what you are saying. It's highly frustrating though when Governments don't do their job to protect. For me, this is not so much an issue of love for my enemies. I will pray for my enemies. I will do what I can to help the helpless. I would not however knowingly live next door to a sex offender, nor would I ever invite them into my neighborhood.
Why? Because I love my family. I care about the safety of my neighbors. The concern I have about the refugees is that we don't know who they are or their intentions. If these refugees continue to come, all we can do at that point is pray for our safety. We can pray that God's grace and love will shine through us. We can pray for their salvation. I just feel very hesitant to just blindly open our arms to individuals who may be here to destroy us.

Known nationalities of Paris attackers...

French: 5
Belgian: 1
Syrian: 0

This comes from the NY Times article....

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/15/world/europe/manhunt-for-paris-attackers.html?rref=collection%2Fnewseventcollection%2Fattacks-in-paris

Sadly, according to what I can see from my FB feed and even on SI, this refugee issue is bringing out the worst in those who name the name of Christ. God have mercy on us.

If so, He approved 911. If so, He approved this terrorist attack in France. If so, He is approving the attacks and killings of our coalition forces fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yes, even while God is watching & in control, good people are dying. I am not bitter or angry at God....in no way am I. All I am asking is that our government make responsible choices that will insure the most safety. Lysa, you said that SI is bringing out the worst in us on this issue. Hardly!!! No one on hear is calling for the hurt or execution of these Syrian refugees. No one is saying don't help them. We are only asking for our governments to act wisely and responsibly. If you read anything else into these statements, you are misconstruing what's being said here.

Lisa said,
Sadly, according to what I can see from my FB feed and even on SI, this refugee issue is bringing out the worst in those who name the name of Christ. God have mercy on us.

Some things I have been pondering for many years are coming to pass. As Lisa rightly points out, things that have, are, and will be happening in the near future will be causing a separation in the body of Christ.

In 1997 when Bill Clinton was President I had a vision that Hillary would one day be the President of the USA. I am not a prophet nor claim to be but the vision was very clear.

With all that is going on in the world and our recent Presidential debates I can see professing Christians already taking sides and saying things that are very concerning.

So here are some questions that I have had posed to me in my spirit. As a Christian and a sojourner/pilgrim/alien in this world can I or should I be involving myself in the affairs of man? Would God want me voting for and putting my trust in a man or a political party?

I have heard some Christians say that, Donald Trump is the only hope America has. What a shocking statement! As I rationalized this statement with the individual their retort was, "Well what do you want?, Hillary to be President?"

As a Christian how can two walk together accept they be agreed? To vote for the lesser of two evils is still casting a vote for evil.

With the recent bombing in Paris and all the fear and rhetoric in the media I am afraid we are going to see many professing Christians true colors. Many are going to fall away due to fear.

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.(Jeremiah 17:5)

Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.(Psalms 146:3)

I won't quote these portions but will add them for those who would care to read them. Isaiah 30:1-7, 31:1-9

As it has been rightly pointed out, God is Sovereign, men aligning themselves with men will not nullify Gods sovereignty.

The reason we have the current President we have is not because enough Christians did not vote. Our President is merely a reflection of the heart of the people. Some say not casting a vote is actually casting a vote and if you do not want a certain individual in the white house you must vote against him.

When the anti-christ shows up on the scene do we really believe voting him in or not voting him in will not be a part of the process? People will have to cast a vote for this man just like people who cast a vote in any election.

When Obama was elected President I know of many professing Christians who voted for him and just like they rolled out the red carpet for him they will also be deceived and roll out the red carpet for the anti-christ. Just as people are fed up with the current administration, fear and frustration is going to be many peoples guide in the upcoming election.

God already knows who the next President is going to be, We already know one day the ac is going to come on the scene and will appear to be the answer to all the worlds problems.

We cannot change what has already been written and decided. You can choose to strike hands with men or decide to trust the Lord.

Will voting, picketing, protesting, keep us from opening our country to Syrian refugees?

So here is a thought I had recently. If God already knew Obama was going to be the President and He already knows who the next President is going to be and He already knows when the ac is going to come and be voted into power. If we cast votes against these people meaning we vote for Obama's opponent, the next presidents opponent, and the ac's opponent, are we not voting/fighting against God? I believe we are.

Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.(Acts 5:34-39)

I want to encourage you in being careful whom you are joining yourself to, trusting in, and putting your hope and confidence in, in these last days. We cannot overthrow or fight against God but rather put our faith, hope, and trust in Him.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.(2 Chronicles 7:14)

This admonishment and accompanying promises must start with us as individuals first, then the body of Christ, our families, and then as far as God should decide to take it as we preach the Gospel.

While we cannot control who comes in our out of our country or who leads it using human efforts and means, we CAN pray, supplicate, intercede, make up the hedge, stand in the gap, and yield and submit to Gods will.

Is it possible to see Nations repent and be saved like Nineveh? I won't say it is impossible but will say it is unlikely. However, we can repent, and encourage one another to repent, our families, loved ones, etc.

My wife asked me the other day, how do we get a good president? My answer is, Watch and pray seeking first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and whatever President we end up with let Gods will be done and not our own. God is and will ALWAYS be in control, when we trust Him, even when we are headed to the gallows, we cannot fail.

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.(Jeremiah 17:7)

May I say first that I want to be in unity with each of you. So my comments are not intended to divide. My heart wants unity among brethren. And, we lack God's-eye-view of everything.

I sit here reading news accounts of Syrian refugees who are Muslim and who are trying to enter America by subterfuge and deceit. I read of threats by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (or, Iraq and the Levant, if you prefer ISIL) against Times Square. I have read by policy experts that in each case where ISIS has advertised its intent to bomb, it has managed to eventually carry out that threat. Conventional wisdom says you don't advertise your next terror event; ISIS flaunts that and executes it.

It has been almost 20 years -- maybe more -- since I heard the old "Point of View" show by Marlon Maddux where he said that Islamic training camps were being run in Mexico and that immigrants from Mexico would just walk across the border, that they would look like Mexicans but would really be terrorists from the Middle East. I don't know how much of what we are thinking is fact, how much is myth, how much is paranoia or xenophobia, etc. This I know: ISIS bombs and kills, they are based in Syria, they recruit and train and dispatch killers in soft target areas where visibility and death and damage are high. I know we have a wide open border.

I also know that this country will believe anything that we're told. If the government says, "Don't worry about it", we say, "Hm, ok." If the government says, "The globe is heating up and the sky is about to fall," we say, "Yup, we're doomed unless we recycle and save the seals." If the government says, "A fetus is not a person," we say, "Selectively reduce away!" and we can see video of the callous marketing of dead baby body parts and flip the channel to The Voice and tweet about Adam Levine stealing a contestant from Pharrell. We are impervious to truth.

The great, near term danger of soft target terrorism may pale in comparison to the permanent danger of a seared conscience, and folks that's where we are. Lest we think that as believers we are immune, let each one of us privately and personally weigh his own thoughts before God with an open bible and a broken heart.

Love you folks.

No one wants touch ok the verses John wrote ........hmmmm

The great, near term danger of soft target terrorism may pale in comparison to the permanent danger of a seared conscience, and folks that's where we are.

Good point! We're more concerned about how "they" might harm us than how we might harm them. We can indeed harm them through our seared collective conscience: Our shallow Christianity may drive them away from Christ. Consider the culture they enter into: licentiousness, narcissism, materialism ... Will their Americanized offspring suffer the same resulting outcomes we see: meaninglessness, isolation, despair, depression, suicide .. addictions, mental disturbance.. lack of purpose and cause for which to live (esp among our young folk).

I heard it said that 10's of thousands of Westerners are going over to join ISIS. As Muslims, they feel shunned, marginalized, lonely. They join ISIS hoping to find meaning and a sense of belonging.... besides the exhilarating sense of POWER through in holding a gun, being a proud warrior, venting rage at a hated target.

Muslim ideology, in its purest form, is extremely destructive. Conquest has been Islam's history, and we are not immune from Islam domination. They see America as the final frontier. Here's my hunch: Unless there is massive repentance in the West, we can expect to find ourselves under Muslim domination - like ancient Israel under the Assyrian Empire.

But then... that may be in accordance with God's covenant purposes... and He will bring many to himself - just as he is doing within ISIS now.

The refugees may be God's calling for us. Whether or not this is an effect of divine judgment, it is God's calling on us to be an autentic living testimony of our Lord ... through hospitality, empathy, interest in them, etc... There's no Biblical way around that!

The best gift we can give them is to give ourselves fully and humbly to the Lord - walking fully in faith - free from fear.

Muslims different to the other false cults ,in which the bible forbids us to associate with

I believe you are quoting this verse in John 1:10- If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

1 John 1:7 to 10:-
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting

Clearly this verse is talking about those who went into this world to deceive Christians by not acknowledging that Jesus came in Flesh. These men are also so called Christians but they only consider the divinity of Jesus but not his coming in Flesh. That is they do not teach or give weightage to the human likeness of Jesus. They do not consider how he suffered in flesh during all 33.5 years of his life. The Catholics and the prosperity preachers do not acknowledge that part of life of Jesus. Though they may confess that they believe that Jesus came as a human, they do not acknowledge how he lived with human limitations to please God. These false preachers, we are not supposed to invite home.

If this verse meant what you said like not to invite Muslims then how can this not contradict with what Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 5:10?

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler not even to eat with such a one.

Here Apostle Paul clearly asks us to associate with worldly people which includes even the Muslims. But anyone who calls himself a brother of Jesus, which Muslims do not but lives immorally should not be associated with.

Secondly you seem to apply scripture to a country. All these scriptures are for associating with someone in your home. America is not just your home or the home of just Christians. Hence this scripture is not applicable to a nation. The problem with majority of American Christians is they inherently think that America is a Christian nation and all Christian scriptures are applicable to it. Even if you agree it or not, this is even inside you. Such a thought is purely unscriptural. No Nation can be a Christian nation. It is pride to think of America this way. American Christians should repent of such patriotic feeling.

Yep ,sree I realise that those verses were actually refiring to Gnostics , who at the time were really the only false teachers that that confessed Jesus ,,but I still wonder if it a practical verse that should be aplyed today ,,what is it that we aply those same verses to momans and jehova witness's ,when I read the Koran ,I see it teach that we as people of the book are brothers who received revalation from the same God ,they confess Jesus as a great prophet as we know he is , ,, we worship the same God ,.

I'm not apliying anything to a nation ,,,but rather Islam as a monotheist cult that believes in Christ ,in skewed way as the Gnostics did

How do you aply those verses,I noticed that you aply them to Catholics,which is obviously stretching the context quite a lot ,as I did ,,I still don't feel at all convinced that it is wrong to possable aply them to other monthestic who teach a skewed Jesus ,and demonise the work of the cross and the son ship and fatherhood of God ,,,wile at the same times claiming to teach the truth about Jesus and God in the traditional monotheistic scence ,...

With out doubt Mohammed was one of the false prophets that jesus and Paul and Jude and Peter spoke about that would come ,so it would not be stretching the context to much to shun him and not have him in our homes because of the bibles teaches of false prophets ,,and then we have all the false teachers the imams ,and mofties ,and what have you. Which if we decide that they teach what a false prophet revealed ,,,then one could also find biblical ground ,to shun them also .....

The more I found about how much Islam teaches about Christ and how in in places also esteem so our gospels ,and views Christians different from the secular world ,and not as pagans ,,,,,,,,it has much in comman with Judaism and Christianity ,,....

I'm not American either ,I never lived there ... Been there don't plane on going there ..............edit

Sree I'm not at all convinced that the verse contradicts Paul ,, the people of the world in my view were pagans ,obviously Christians were starting mabey after reading a letter of Paul's that they should keep right away from the worldly pagans , and besides ,John and paul are two different people and authors , Paul may have only been speaking about possable true Christians who were living in sin ,or false Christians who had no repentance ,,in that particular verses he may not have been speaking about gnostic heracy......

Sree I don't think Paul says that the people spoken about called Jesus a brother ,,, but rather called them selves a brother in a Christian scence ,but like a said weather a Muslim calls and doesn't call him self a brother is irrelevant because in the letter Paul is dealing with a different situation then John ,,,that's why Paul talks about receiving ones back in to fellowship and forgiving them and not to count them as enemy's ,certaint ones ,,,but John ,,is down right ,don't even speak with them ,the don't have the son........

No Blaine ,they are not ,,are you being funny .......

Muslim calls and doesn't call him self a brother is irrelevant because in the letter Paul is dealing with a different situation then John

I don't understand how it is irrelevant. In 1 Corth 5, Apostle Paul is clearly referring to the man living in Open adultery and was also part of the Church as a fellow brother. He is asking other believers not even to associate with such men. But outside the Church, in the world, do not distinguish men as sinners but associate with them.

Basically if you understood the spirit of that verse you will be clear. There is a spirit behind every verse. The spirit is, a fake brother in the Church living in sin can easily deceive us to live in Sin. But outside the Church, with plain sinners, we already know that they are wrong, hence we will not be deceived by them. For example no born again person will follow a worldly person as an example to live in sin. But when he sees a believer living carelessly in sin, he too gets that careless attitude of sin.

3 different reasons why your interpretation is incorrect:-

1. If 1 John 1:10 asks us not to associate with outsiders then it clearly contradicts the freedom given by Paul in 1 Corthin 5 to associate with worldly people.
2. 1 John 1:10 talks about those who do not acknowledge Jesus came in Flesh. This is different from whether they acknowledge Jesus as God or not. In my previous post I clearly explained you what it means to acknowledge Jesus coming in Flesh. So based on that your interpretation that this verse is applicable to Muslims and JW is incorrect.
3. Finally 1 John 1:10 is given for individual disciples not for a nation. So you cannot apply it for a nation like US and say that it should not invite Muslims. This is the greatest mistake that believers make due to the Sin of patriotism inside them. It is easy for a guy like me from a heathen nation to see this sin in others, but people from so called Christian nation cannot see their own sin.

what is it that we aply those same verses to momans and jehova witness's ,when I read the Koran ,I see it teach that we as people of the book are brothers who received revalation from the same God ,they confess Jesus as a great prophet as we know he is , ,, we worship the same God ,.

I apologize for appearing harsh in my previous posts. I believe we can have a better healthier discussion.

As I said in my previous posts, the spirit behind 1 John 10 and 1 Cor 5 is to warn against deception from a fellow deceived brother.

The thing that clearly prevents me from applying 1 John 1:10 to Muslims and JW is, we will have very less chance to be deceived by those two. If a Christian is deceived by Muslim and converts to Islam or if he denies the deity of Jesus after being influenced by JW then there is something seriously wrong with his initial conversion. Though it has happened frequently in the past, I do not believe Apostle Paul or even John is concerned about such deception.

But Apostles are clearly concerned about the deceptions like legalism, casual attitude to sin, denying the way of cross etc that can enter the Church through fellow believers. Such sins come in unnoticed and are more dangerous.

Regarding Islam, I have debated with few Muslims, I do not think they believe we all worship the same God. They are totally against our belief. The Jesus they believe is not the same Jesus we believe. Even though Quran asks Muslims to refer to Bible to know more about Jesus, it is still not the same Jesus. The identity of Jesus given in Quran itself contradicts the Jesus of Bible. So no way that they can be called our brothers.

When we call someone brother, it is the greatest title we can give to them. Which means we are acknowledging that such a person is connected to us as a brother of Jesus. So it is not just a casual word brother. I do not call all Christians as brothers, even in SI forums, I carefully use this word. Not everyone is worthy to be called a fellow brother of Jesus.

Actually it's 2 John 10'...."

What I said it was erelevent, was only due to Paul dealing with brothers in Christ and mabey unconverted unrepentant professes ,but John in his seconded letter is deal with another class of people ,those who believe in and preach another Jesus ,two different context ,which are not relevant due to the differing treatment ,,,,one was to not asocate, but don't treat them like an enemy ,,,,but johns treatment was to not even to speak or to eat with them ,with no exhortation to restore them because these were Cleary a false cult who preached a false Christ ,who were gnostic ,, ,these were enemy's of the crossfire you will ,,,,,and I think the application is two different effects ......

I realise and made a point that Jesus not coming in the flesh was one of the signs of this new cult they were dealing with , and I never applied it with that sign in mind ,those I think you applied it to Catholics ,who neither deni that,,,,,,,,,,

That was one of the signs for that particular cult in that day and age ,

My main reason ,was that they preach another Jesus and deni the son of God and the fatherhood of God ..., John talks about that in his first letter,it was another sign .......

I should have been clear ,my post doesn't have any thing to do with refuges entering America, ,wile I was read the thread ,I just said that I struggle trying to reconcile those verses with dealing with certaint cults ,,my comments are not in that context sorry to not clarify that .

No you didn't appear harsh at ,sorry if I made it seem that way .

Well I do disagree that John and Paul are both talking about true Christians ,John makes it clears in his first letter where he gives the test to show is is of God and who is of the devil a real black and white contrasts in his theology .. Iv read first John hundreds of times and and convinced that he is showing who's true and false Christians and is second letter is complimentary and contextual to one another ,Paul's letter is not in the same vain of flow ,,similar but not the same ...

I think because I believer in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints it's not you or I who will be decievd but those coming to the faith who are not soundly converted ,,and the church is naturally combined with both ....

I realise that Muslims believe differently,, the Koran does teach that the bile is also true and is a revalation from the same God ,and I know there are Muslims that believe this and teach that because the Koran says that ,,,but then they say that it is also corrupted ,,but to my knowledge the Koran doesn't actually say the gospels are corupted ,,strangely enough the Gnostics taught that the gospels were also corupted ...

That's the point the Jesus Muslims and momans and Jw believe in is not the same Jesus ,as the knostics also believed ......,if they believed in the true Jesus with the true gospel receiving the true spirit ,,then we wouldn't be having this conversation ,they would be brothers,,,, my points was and John wrote ,,,,they went out from us because they were not of us ......,

False cults with in the church as sect and out side are still cults ,,,if they teach about Jesus and the prophets,,,they must comes very closes to crossing the line of enemy's of Christ as the knostics did and as Christians ,were are told not to fellowship with them of even great them

My mind is not made up on which cross the line. Iv pondered it for a wile and come to the conclusion the Jw and Mormons are over the line ......

My intent was to merely express concern over the entrance of terrorist into our country using refugee status. This has nothing to do with race, color or culture; just safety. As Christians, we should love and evangelize all people. This post is about safety alone. How our government chooses to respond to this situation will be completely up to them. As concerned citizens, I think it is our duty to express concern where we see danger. This is all this post intended.

As concerned citizens, I think it is our duty to express concern where we see danger.

I agree Cliff. If you get wind of a terrorist operation you report it!! But we'll not likely know. So we pray that our law enforcers will do their job.

The problem is with the IMAGINED danger ”“ mob paranoia/terror ”“ which is just what terrorists want to see. It gives them power over us! If we view every Muslim as a potential threat, we’ll be inhospitable and in that way fail to exemplify Christ. We merely reinforce their negative assumptions about Christianity. And the ones that suffer most are the ones "on the bottom" - the homeless, children, etc.

According to Tom Doyle, author of "Dreams and Visions”, Muslims are turning to Christ through dreams and visions IN CONJUNCTION with the love of vibrant believers.

No worries blain,I had a giggle anyways..

I did not read many of the responses to this post but do want to say I agree 100% with you.

Not all that long ago I would have disagreed with you but something happened to change my mind.

For starters I will have to tell you that our family physician was/is Muslim from Pakistan. He is a very nice person, concerned for his clients, helps them in all the ways possible. Assuming all Muslims would be like him I would have said the alarm against Muslims would have been misguided.

However...

This summer a young Muslim man, Oda, whom we knew was arrested by the FBI at a nearby airport as he and his fiancee` were fixing to fly to Turkey to get married and then go onto Syria to join the ISIS. We have seen this girl - she was very pretty, young, ambitious, smart, dressed modestly - who helped Oda's mother sell her goods at the Farmer's Market. I used to talk with this fellow, helped him set up his canopy - he was just plain downright nice, no two ways about it.

One day as I was reading about the atrocities inflicted by the ISIS upon others the idea of Oda being a member of the ISIS flowed through my brain but I dismissed it as being absurd - he would never doing anything like that, surely not! But I was wrong. So wrong. I felt like I was kicked in my stomach.

Now, I no longer trust Muslims, Arabic Christians, yes, but not Muslims. Is this the only reason I mistrust them? No. Other reports have come our way - reports you will not read about in the news - that prove many are not law abiding people...

Am I unchristian to not want them here? Liberals and others will say yes. All I can say is I am sad. I do not want my granddaughters to live in the vicinity of Muslims. I do not want them raped and suffer the disaster that follows these victims. Is this ungodly? Is it ungodly to expect immigrants to obey the law of the land? Have they done this in other countries into which they have fled? If you want lawlessness to be the norm, why not just empty the state prisons - could save the state a lot of money, as I think about it...

My opinion.

Sandra

This is the rhema I am receiving today:

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Is a mixture of innocent and malicious refugees not the natural backsplash from this nation's decades of exporting immorality and violence around the world? As Christ's body, the responsibility I sense is for both contrition over the sins of our nation, and also recognition that those same sins fuel the propaganda machines which mislead young Muslims. Otherwise saints fearing for their safety may be tricked into neglecting their authority to minister truth and reconciliation.

My wife and I read some passages this morning while we were conversing about the recently recovered seal from King Hezekiah (I made a separate thread about the article in the News section). We read II Kings chapters 18-20.

One of the interesting parts of Hezekiah's life is the point in which an envoy arrived from Babylon with gifts (because they heard that Hezekiah was sick).

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II Kings 20:12-19 (NASB):

"12 At that time Berodach-baladan a son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present to Hezekiah, for he heard that Hezekiah had been sick. 13 Hezekiah listened to them, and showed them all his treasure house, the silver and the gold and the spices and the precious oil and the house of his armor and all that was found in his treasuries. There was nothing in his house nor in all his dominion that Hezekiah did not show them. 14 Then Isaiah the prophet came to King Hezekiah and said to him, "What did these men say, and from where have they come to you?” And Hezekiah said, "They have come from a far country, from Babylon.” 15 He said, "What have they seen in your house?” So Hezekiah answered, "They have seen all that is in my house; there is nothing among my treasuries that I have not shown them.”

16 Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, "Hear the word of the Lord. 17 ‘Behold, the days are coming when all that is in your house, and all that your fathers have laid up in store to this day will be carried to Babylon; nothing shall be left,’ says the Lord. 18 ‘Some of your sons who shall issue from you, whom you will beget, will be taken away; and they will become officials in the palace of the king of Babylon.’” 19 Then Hezekiah said to Isaiah, "The word of the Lord which you have spoken is good.” For he thought, "Is it not so, if there will be peace and truth in my days?”

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Previously, Hezekiah had allied himself with Egypt -- to the point that the Assyrians questioned the rationality of that alliance (II Kings 18:21-24). I don't know what prompted Hezekiah to show the Babylonian envoy all of his treasures. I suppose that we can speculate that he may have rethought his alliance with Egypt or assumed that Babylon might secure his eastern borders, but we will never know.

The problem, however, was that Hezekiah's decision wasn't wise from a purely nationalistic (or even rational) point of view. Today, we would say that it was "TMI" -- sharing "too much information."

Now, there is certainly an aspect of altruism in international relations. The West is being encouraged and even prompted to accept "refugees" from areas ravaged by ISIS or other violent terrorist groups.

However, the vetting process of immigration is apparently being reduced or even ignored in many cases. Of course, no one is saying that all Muslims are violent or adhere to a violent code in the name of Islam. However, there are sizable numbers that, even fractional, would represent a large number of people who embrace violence as a viable means of "defending the faith."

There are many polls taken among Muslims in the west and Islamic nations to gauge their views from everything from Shariah Law to "honor killing" to their views of Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims. The views differ from nation to nation and region to region. One poll taken by Pew Research on the issue of "honor killings" (the execution of individuals by family members or others for conduct that embarrasses the family or violating principles of Islamic law) was surprising.

In even "westernized" Muslim nations like Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan, a sizable percentage of Muslims believe that honor killings are justified and a legitimate part of Islam. For instance, 19% of Muslims in Jordan believe that "honor killings" are justified if a male committed the offense, but 66% of Muslims in Jordan believe that they are acceptable if a female committed the offense. This sort of thinking is shocking to most westerners -- but is undoubtedly a "norm" in many Islamic nations.

In fact, the same poll found that 34% of Muslims in Russia believe in honor killings for males and 40% believe in honor killings for females. In other word, "integration" into a more open society does NOT translate to changing views on violence in the name of Islam. Another poll conducted by a German think tank found that 45% of Muslims in Europe feel that "Jews cannot be trusted." The poll also found that 65% of European Muslims felt that Islamic law supersedes national law and 54% believe that the West wants to destroy Islam.

This isn't the thinking of "fringe" religious fundamentalists. This represents the thinking of mainstream Muslims who live in Europe. One could argue that this is incompatible with the culture of the United States, Canada or other western nations.

If you are a parent and have young children, would you risk accepting guests who might be a danger to your wife and child? Now, think of this question on a national scale. The issue is not one of altruism. The refugees from Syria could easily be taken in by surrounding Islamic nations where the cultures, religion and beliefs are shared. However, those nations do not have the easy social welfare systems set up by Western nations on behalf of citizens. Consequently, it would be easier to live well in the west than elsewhere. However, this certainly opens the door for radicals to take advantage of the hospitality and open doors.

My wife has a few fish tanks. This is a fun hobby for her. She has two large tanks a few smaller tanks around the house. In one of the larger tanks, we had a peaceful community of fish that lived well together. There was an established pecking order and the diverse group of fish had coexisted for more than a year. My wife went to the store and bought a particular fish that is known to be semi-aggressive. However, she found that many other people had integrated one of these fish into large tanks and they acclimated nicely with the other fish. My wife felt confident that the same would be the case in one of our large tanks. She bought a very small, colorful and peaceful-looking fish from the store -- thinking that its small size would help keep it lower on the pecking order given the larger fish in the tank.

Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. One by one, fish began to die. This never happened when we were in front of the tank. In fact, we weren't sure how it was happening. At first, we thought that it was something in the water (e.g., disease, ammonia level, etc.), but these all tested negative. We even recorded the tank at times during the day when we were away. We didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Within a few weeks, nearly all of our peaceful fish -- including the large ones -- were gone (sometimes one fish per day). Eventually, we set up a camera at night and discovered that, in darkness, this little fish would target and hunt down another fish until it was dead.

That fish tank is now empty. All that is left is the small fish and a single algae eater. Now, I don't blame the fish -- because it was in its nature. We knew that it was semi-aggressive going in. However, we hoped that it would be acclimated to coexist with the others. That wasn't the case. We are the ones to blame.

I wonder if this might be an appropriate anecdote about what could happen with trying to integrate Muslims into the United States without first vetting their views.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/06/ben-affleck-and-bill-maher-are-both-wrong-about-islamic-fundamentalism/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2013/12/13/how-widespread-is-islamic-fundamentalism-in-western-europe/

https://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm