Would we have the same response???

Shortly after World War 2 over 1 million Russian soldiers invaded the tiny nation of Romania. The Romanian army had been decimated by the Germans. So there was no way this tiny nation could resist the onslaught, the invasion of what was known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Or better known as the USSR. As a result Romania was drawn into the communist Warsaw Pact of Nations.

Living in Romania was a converted Jew. A village blacksmith led this Jew to Christ. This blacksmith had prayed that he would have the honor and blessing to lead one of God's chosen people to the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah. We know this converted Jew today as Richard Wurmbrand.

During the invasion of the Russians, Richard Wurmbrand and his team gathered as many Russian New Testaments and tracts as they could find and carry. They met the Russians with the love of Christ. And shared Jesus with the invading soldiers.. Many Russians became believers through the efforts of Richard and his team. One would have to ask did God allow, indeed did He even direct the Russians to invade Romania so that some might be saved?

Richard Wurmbrand and his team were not praying for the protection of Romania from the invading Russians. They were not advocating that Russians should be prevented from coming into Romania. Not that they would have any way to prevent them from coming into this small nation. But instead Richard warmbrandt saw this as an opportunity to get the gospel out to the Russians.

So let's say we do admit several thousand Muslim immigrants into this country. What is going to be our response as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ??? Again I ask if several thousand Muslim immigrants come into this nation what will be our response as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ???

To listen to the rhetoric of politicians and certain evangelical leaders one would think that we should seal off our borders from the invading Muslims. Others are saying we should go out and get a conceal and carry. And perhaps even arm ourselves for the next Armageddon. But to quote a classic question. WWJD. What would Jesus do?

I can hardly see Jesus doing the above. I can hardly see Jesus getting a conceal and carry. Or arming for the next Armageddon. Indeed I don't even think that he would advocate closing the borders. But rather Jesus would see this as an opportunity for gospel harvest. He would say look and see that the fields are ripe for harvest.

So Muslims are admitted into America. There's a possibility there may be the Jihafists among the ranks. Do we fear??? Or do we say Praise God!!! An opportunity to be used by God to reap Muslim souls for Christ?

Is it possible that God is bringing the harvest to us through the refugees that may come into this nation. If we advocate closing our borders to those who are coming in. Are we not falling into Satan's ploy to send Muslim souls to hell. I ask what is far worse. An attack on American soil by Islamic Jihadists? Or Islamic jihadist souls spending an eternity in hell among the cries of the tormented. And that with no chance of escape.

But there are some who say to reach Muslim extremist will cost me my life. Richard Wurmbrand paid a heavy price for reaching the Russian soldiers. Yet years later and speaking to a church. He said through tears. I did not love them enough. Meaning the communists who had tortured him. He felt he had not seen many of his persecutors come to Christ. Thus he lamented through tears I did not love them enough.

Could we have such a radical love for Muslim souls. Even at the risk of being beheaded by them. Jim Elliot and for other missionaries laid down their lives to see the Indians in Ecuador come to Christ.

Brothers and sisters what is God calling us to? Are we called to peace and safety in this world that is on its way to hell? Or are we called to go and to reach souls for the Lord Jesus Christ before he returns?

So Islamic Jihadists may come on our soil. They may take our lives. But perhaps God is bringing them on our soil that they made here at the transforming saving grace of the gospel.

So would we have the same response as Richard Wurmbrand toward an invading conquering enemy? To put it another way. Are we going to think with the mind of Christ? Or are we going to think with the mind of man? For the the mind of Christ is for the salvation of souls. The mind of man thinks only about his own self-interest.

Brothers and sisters, what will our response be???

Bearmaster

Thank you, Blaine. The response of a believer in Christ must be to be kind to the stranger and the alien and to love those who hate us and persecute us. Brother Wurmbrand and the missionaries to Ecuador are just a few of thousands of Christians who have laid down their lives for Christ.

And to be walking in the Spirit ensures us that we need not fear the coming days ahead.

In Christ,
L

Jesus and His apostles were living in occupied Israel and never once got involved in the politics of their day. Their kingdom was spiritual, their walk, spiritual, their manner and means, spiritual and their weapons spiritual. And the Early Christians were already walking in resurrection life (Christ in you), being told by Jesus "if they persecuted Me, they will persecute you". And, He also said, "Fear not the one that can kill your body..." and "through much tribulation you will enter the kingdom of God."

Jesus and the apostles let the world do what they wanted. They did not interfere. Their goals and mission were also spiritual, preaching the Gospel so men would be translated from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of Jesus Christ.

And we are spiritual "soldiers" as opposed to soldiers in this world who DO use carnal weapons.
"Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." (2Tim 2:3-4)

Thanks for the post Blaine. Many interesting thoughts and replies and a lot we can learn from those believers.
Yes the Bible tells us to love those who hate us and persecute us, this can be a big challenge. However we need a lot of wisdom when it comes to "kindness " , beware of "Gibeonites " (Josh 9)

Quote: "perhaps God is bringing them on our soil that they made here at the transforming saving grace of the gospel."
Not so sure about that, this is not the way God operated in Scripture. He told the Israelites many times not to mix with other nations and Jesus said: "GO into all the world..." I see them more as the "Assyrians " or as the "Babyloniens "

We all know that we have all sorts of problems in our churches. Therefore let's not forget to pray for repentance and revival and unity etc.

"Your Kingdom come..."

by proudpapa on 2015/12/16 0:09:37

Richard Wurmbrand spent a great deal of time speaking/writing against the satanic enemy of communism ,
He unapologetically spoke against communism and communist regimes.

He wrote the book Marx & Satan so that "Christians will recognize the evil therein and stand against it".

I do not see how one can use Wurmbrand as a poster child to promote political apathy.

having said that,
I feel (agree)we need to demonstrate the love of God to the refugees once they get here.

What is your definition of "political apathy" in the context of the life of Jesus, the apostles and the early church and do you think these three engaged in it?

I have read all of Wurmbrand's books and have the one you mentioned, "Marx and Satan". He speaks mainly of Communism as an ideology and goes into the background and life of Karl Marx (spiritually) showing a drastic change that took place in his life and a deep personal rebellion of God developed. Eventually, Marx became a Satan worshiper who participated in occult practices. By writing the book, Wurmbrand builds a case for Marx's Satanic preference by examining his poetry, plays, correspondence and biographical accounts. His desire is to reveal the true roots of Marxist thinking so that Christians will recognize the evil and stand against it. So, I view this book as more of a spiritual and ideological expose' rather than a political expose'.

On page 124, brother Wurmbrand says this:

"As for me, I love every man, including the Marxists and Satanists. If Marx and Engels and Moses Hess were alive today, my most ardent wish would be to bring them to Jesus Christ, who alone has the answer to man's ills and the remedy for his sins.

This is my wish for you, the reader. You have walked with me through the terrible pages of this book. NOW I URGE YOU TO CONSIDER CAREFULLY YOUR LOYALTIES BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. Abandon Satan and his evil cohorts. History proves he is never true to his own. Therefore, choose life and love and hope and heaven. Marxists and proletarians of the world, unite around JESUS CHRIST!"

He explains what he means my "loyalties" in a spiritual not political context.

Leslie you are welcome dear sister. I remember seeing a cartoon where the scribe and the Pharisee walked past the man who had been rubbed and left for half dead on the road. But then the Good Samaritan came along and ministered to him. The caption under the cartoon read let me be like this man. That is the Good Samaritan.

God grant that we would be like the Good Samaritan toward the stranger. Toward the refugee. Or as you said my sister. If we are walking in the Spirit and His love. We need not fear.

Blaine

Brother agree with your post. God grant that we be citizens of His kingdom. For His kingdom is not of this earth. His is a spiritual everlasting Kingdom. His kingdom is righteousness peace and joy is found in the Holy Spirit. His kingdom is a kingdom of His justice and love. His kingdom is open to all. who come to him in humble faith. Trusting in Him for salvation.

BB

I attended my first Sermonindex conference in Dallas in 2010. While at the conference I had the blessing of meeting our dear brother Edgar Reich. We had rich fellowship as Edgar graciously gave me a ride to and from our hotel. On one of those occasions he recounted the story......

It was the 1970s. It was at the height of what we called the Cold War. A well known man had been invited to speak at a church in Toronto Canada. Knowing this man's reputation the church was very crowded. The people came in expectation of hearing a rousing anti-communist message. Of hearing about what Reagan would call later the evil empire.

A frail man was escorted down the aisle to the front of the church. This was the speaker the crowd came to hear. This was the man the crowd thought would rial against the evils of communism. For he had suffered much under their torture.

The man asked gently if the pulpit could removed. Then he apologized to the crowd that he was in bare stockings. For his feet had been damaged severely in the tortures he had endured. The man leaned against the railing in front of the church. The crowd was silent. In expectation of an anti-communist message.

Then the man began to weep. Tears streamed from his face. He kept lamenting....... I did not love them enough...I did not love them enough.......When he was finally asked. Who do you mean brother... The man responded...The communists. I do not love them enough...Needless to say. The crowd was silent. And many were weeping.

The man who was weeping for the communists was Richard Wurmbrand.

Blaine

Brother I thought of this verse as I read your post. The verse that says vengeance is mine I will repay says the Lord. You did not seek your own justice. But God gave you grace to endure the persecution. And he brought vengeance abd justice against your enemies.

Blaine

Agreed brother. But did Jesus not tell us to go to the nations and to preach the gospel and make disciples. Even when the nations are being brought to us. Is the Great Commission still not applicable. Are we not commanded to share the good news with all we come across?

Just some thought provoking questions that occurred to me as I read your post.

Blaine

If memory serves I believe this was the question the Anabaptists faced during the Reformation. The Reformers such as Calvin and Luther believed you had to have a strong state to protect the Gospel as well as to advance it through the force of the sword. Does many of the Reformers would seek the protection of a strong Prince. One who would protect them in the temporal realm.

In contrast the Anabaptists such as Michael Sattler believed that the church was dependent upon Christ and Christ alone for protection. They saw that the church or the body of Christ represented the spiritual kingdom of Jesus. They understood that Jesus realm was not of this earth.

I have no doubt that perhaps in his earlier years coming out of Romania Richard Wurmbrand may have saught for the defeat of communism through temporal means. However one cannot help but think that in his older years as he got closer to Jesus he saw a different paradigm.

And this can be the said for us. Views that we once held in our earlier walk with Christ tend to change as we become more conformed to His image.

I do not think that in His ministry Jesus condoned the use of the temporal sword to advance His kingdom purposes. The intent of Jesus what to save souls. Indeed when the disciples wanted to bid fire from heaven to come down and consume a village that would not welcome Him. Jesus turned and rebuked the disciples telling them that they did not know what spirit they were of. Jesus said the Son of man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them.

Today such a rebuke may have to be given to certain evangelical leaders who are calling for the death of Muslims to protect the Republic. For these evangelical leaders are of a different spirit. They certainly are not of the Spirit of Jesus.

My thoughts.

Blaine

There is an excellent movie that is about 20 years old. But very well made. This movie tells the story of Michael and Margaritte Sattler. In the movie and interesting scene plays out. To support himself and his wife Margaritte, Michael practices the skills of a weaver. As he is weaving a piece of cloth that is strung out over posts. He sees one wrong thread that ruins the whole piece of cloth. This is where he gets a revelation. Presumably by the Holy Spirit.

Michael sees that the church is a called out ekklesia. A called out body as unto Christ. This body, this bride of Jesus, is to live out the reality of the kingdom of God here on earth. This reality is lived out by the teachings of Jesus primarily as inscribed in the Sermon on the Mount. The body is a spiritual body. This body reflects the reality of the kingdom of God that will be consummated in heaven.

When the body forgets its heavenly calling period and starts taking on the temporal thinking of the world. Then one wrong thread will ruin the whole piece of cloth. Allow the thinking of man to permeate the church. Then a church loses its eternal focus.

I believe this is what has happened to the church today. Going back to the days of Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority. The Church in America lost its effectiveness when she got involved in right wing politics.

Truly one wrong thread did ruin the witness of the Church in America. And today we can hear the rhetoric when so-called born-again evangelical Christians are advocating conceal and carry. When they are advocating the keeping out of Muslims. Indeed they are even advocating the use of force to kill Muslims if it means to protect the Republic.

I did not see the Presidential Debates last night. But in talking to a brother he said an interesting question came up for Ben Carson.. Ben Carson supposedly represents Christian values of a conservative nature. But he was asked would approve of the killing of women and children in a war to defeat Islam. I am Not sure if I'm reflecting his answer accurately. But using the illustration of cutting cancer out of a child. His answer seem to be yes that he would support killing of women and children if it meant to defeat evil.

Again I did not see the debate so I may not be reflecting his answer correctly. But I am aware of other evangelical leaders who support the idea of just war if it means to protect the Republic. Even if it means the taking of innocent lives.

God have mercy on us. That we are allowing that one bad thread the permeate the churvh of the Lird Jesus Christ.

Blaine

Given the fact that Richard Wurmbrand suffered under the hands of the communist. Some slack may be given to him to make such quotes. But I really wonder if he believed what he was saying in his spirit. Particularly in light of what he spoke at the church in Toronto in his desire to see communist saved.

Anyway the brother is in glory in heaven. I merely pointed out an event in which he met a conquering enemy with the love of Christ. And wanted to see their souls saved. And also drawing a parallel to the refugee crisis today.

Blaine

Five prominent evangelical leaders sent a letter to George W Bush on October 3rd 2002. These five leaders urged President Bush to invade Iraq. They justified the invasion as a preemptive strike. These five leaders said that such a strike could be supported by Just War theology.

The five men who signed the letter were as follows.......

Richard Land of the Ethics and Religious Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention.

The late chuck Colson of Prison Fellowship Ministries.

The late Dr. Bill Bright of Campus Crusade for Christ. Now known as Cru.

The late D James Kennedy of Coral Ridge ministries.

Carl D Herbster of the American Association of Christian Schools

These prominent evangelical leaders encouraged the invasion of Iraq. An invasion where countless Iraqi and American lives were lost. An invasion where weapons of mass destruction were never proved. An invasion that eventually gave rise to ISIS. And the untold death and misery that this group has wrought in Iraq and Syria and other parts of the world.

It is one thing for a temporal government like the United States to engage in an invasion. Because at its best governments are evil. Because they are led by evil men. But when evangelical leaders support governments to take lives to save the so-called Republic. Then all I can say is God have mercy on us.

For indeed, the church has been corrupted by one bad thread.

Blaine

PS

The information about the Land Letter can be googled under the protocol Land Letter. My intention is not to defame the names of the above men. But the point out that even prominent Christian evangelicals can be deceived. Thus may God give us much wisdom and discernment in these end times.

I want to redirect this thread back to the OP. Our brother Richard Wormbrandt saw an opportunity for gospel harvest with the invading Russians coming into Romania. We have an opportunity for gospel harvest with the Muslim refugees if they our admitted into this country.

It has been said if we do not go to the nations then God will bring the nations to us. God brought the Russians to Romania to hear the gosoel and be saved. He is bringing the Muslims to Anerica so that they may hear the gospel and be saved.

The question is will we accept the challenge and command of Jesus to share the gospel to those who come to our shores.

My thiughts.

PP I am in agreement with your last post. God grant as grace that we can beat them at their own game in. And God uses to help convert the Muslims.

Blaine

Dear sister your comments are always welcome on this thread.

Agree with everyone that this could very well be the Lord bringing these people to our shores. Obviously, He is allowing it. They must have such a deep, spiritual vacuum in their souls. I look very much forward to showing them the love of God. I have already had the opportunity and the ones I have shared with are very open and receptive. Kind of like a non-religious Catholic. I always have success with them.

Brother it would be my honor to partner with you in sharing the gospel with the Muslims or any other lost souls.

Actually we do have a Muslim enclave here. It is a small neighborhood but growing. I have thought about going out there and doing some prayer walks. And talking with those that Jesus might bring across my path.

Brother so agree. Right now Muslims are certainly receptive to the gospel. Well I don't know about the Jihadists. But the average Muslim if approached with respect and love certainly has an interest in spiritual things. Some Muslims are even open to having you pray for them in the name of Jesus. But I think our underlying motive has to be love. For we read in the scriptures love does no harm to a neighbor.

Agree with your last post your sister.

I had a Muslim ask me to share my testimony and I spent two hours with her. Very receptive individual. Seeds were planted. She comes from a very influential and well known family in Iran. Most of her brothers and sisters are living in the States, now for many, many years. She does not agree with the theocracy in Iran and all the oppression.

Brother looked at your link. Very interesting. Want to do some more digging into this. And find out where the Muslim enclaves are in Little Rock.

Let us keep your idea in prayer about getting together at some point in the future. And see if God might take us to the Muslim harvest here on Littke Rock.

By the way bro how close are you to me?

Brother I hear that Muslims love stories. And they certainly love the story of one's testimony. That certainly would have an impact on them. To see how an encounter with Jesus Christ could change one's life.

Muslims from Persia certainly seemed receptive to the gospel. I had the blessing of sharing the gospel with an Iranian dentist. But that is another story.

God be praised that you planted a seed in that young woman's life.

Brother contact me at pwprayercall@gmail.com. and let us stay in touch about possibly getting together.

by proudpapa on 2015/12/16 19:53:26

Blain,
Maybe we can look into the resettlement programs in Little Rock, Maybe I can come and join you there and see what we can do to share the Gospel.

I am not joking

add: this is what I found so far http://www.rcusa.org/uploads/pdfs/WRD-2014/Arkansas.pdf

Keep us posted!

Will do bro. No doubt PP and I will be asking for prayer support from the forum as we go out to share Jesus with the Muslims.

Sounds good brother. Email me anytime.

Amen, Savannah. There is a remnant, for sure.

by Elibeth on 2015/12/16 21:28:51

Thank you bear.
Your kindness is appreciated.

May The Lord bless you brothers' work IN Him,...guide and direct.

elizabeth

Good to see you again, Elizabeth. Thank you for your kind words and for your prayers.

A few years ago I was working for the Arkansas General Assembly. It was a Friday afternoon. I was chewing a piece of hard candy. In the process of chewing the candy I lost a filling. Realizing I could not get in to see my dentist on a weekend. I called the dental referral society. They referred me to a Dr Hadgian.

I did not know who Dr Hadgian was. I found out she was a female. I assumed she was from India. That following morning I met her at her dental office. She brought her husband alone. Since she does not know me. Her husband was also a medical doctor.

As Dr. Hadgian prepared to replace my filing. I started making small talk with her. Realizing she was a foreigner. I asked her what country she was from. She reluctantly answered she was from Persia. Immediately I asked if she was from Tehran. She looked up in surprise but reluctantly answered yes. I asked her if she spoke Farsi and not Arabic. Again with surprise and suspicion she said yes. I asked her if she was a Sunni or Shia Muslim. At the time I did not know the difference. She said she was a Shia Muslim.

By this time she asked me how did I know so much about her country. The Holy Spirit gave me wisdom in saying that I had studied geography in school. This was true. I did not feel the release to tell her that I read missionary reports about the persecuted church. Actually at that time I did not declare that I was a Christian.

During the course of our conversation Dr Hadgian became more comfortable with me. Probably because I did not disrespect your faith. And asked intelligent questions about Iran. And her practice of Islam.

At the end of my appointment. I called a friend of mine. And he gave me a lead on where to get the Jesus video in Farsi. I sent this to Dr Hagen with a thank you note. She wrote a kind note back indicating she had watched the video. I do not know if she had prayed a prayer to commit her life to Christ. But as time went by. She became my dentist. I did not have much opportunity to speak with her again on a personal level. As more of my visits with her were for dental checkups.

I did follow up to Jesus video by getting her a Farsi English New Testament. And also another book about Dr.Saeed of Iran. She appreciated the gift.

Dr. Hadgian was my dentist for about 2 years. Later she sold her practice to move to LA to be with her mother who had various illnesses. I wrote a kind card to her. Indicating the love of Jesus for her. When I presented the card to her. She said she almost came to tears. She told me when I read this card. I will think of you. And I will think of God. I almost cane to trars.

I believe God used me to plant a seed in this dear woman's life. I pray that someone else watered it. Dr. Hadgian was one of two Muslims that I ever had the privilege of sharing Jesus with. I believe what opened the door with Dr Hadgian was a respect for her faith. And not demigrating it in any way. To be respectful of one's faith does not necessarily mean we agree with it. But to be respectful will open up a door of opportunity to share Jesus.

This is my story.

I just listened to an informative YouTube by Joel Richardson. In his presentation he said 85% of Muslims who come to Christ. Came to Christ through a Christian who showed them love.

Well worth meditating on. I am reminded of the words of St Francis. He said preach the gospel. Use words only when necessary.

God grant that we do that regarding the Muslim harvest.