Since coming to SI in August 2004, my definition of salvation has been dismantled and rebooted. I have seen that I was not a Christian for all those years that I said I was. After all, I had prayed the "sinner's prayer". I can't even put it into words, this change that has taken place in my thinking, but I know it has transformed my heart.The problem is, now I see this tremendous situation that Christians face of all the 'false conversions' that have given people a 'false security'. I'm looking at dead religion all around me. It's everywhere! It's become a treat to me to meet someone who is truly born again who posesses the fear of the Lord and is humbled by their salvation.Now that I am able to see it so clearly, I'm talking about it with others. I'm finding myself more and more alienated from people. My own family is angry with me now because my definition of salvation has left them in the category of unsaved. A real stink has been created in my so-called Christian family. My mother is angry. My two sisters are angry. They think I have flipped. Today, my sister asked me point blank, "do you think I am saved?" I had to answer honestly, "no". I realize it doesn't matter what I think, but shouldn't we all be thinking what God thinks? Is salvation that cheap? You can go right on through life with blatant, unrepentant sin, and yet you're going to spend eternity with the Holy God of All Creation? Should we be talking about this? I am in deep waters now. I've never been here before. I feel like God has shot me out of an airplane into a jungle and I've landed in a tree. My feet are just dangling. I feel like something really big has ahold of me, but my feet aren't touching the ground. I can't go anywhere and even if I could, I don't know which direction to go in. I've never been through anything like this before. Love, Dian.
I'm REALLY in trouble now!
My Family thinks that way too. Even though they came in the same way I did, yet because I don't act like them I am classified as a goody goody two shoes.But the strange thing is even though they think that way about me, I don't feel saved myself. When you go thru so many fiery trials and when you have gone so many years not feeling the presense of the LORD it's difficult to say one is saved.But I know in whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day. Having said that, I do believe that.What I have been learning in the last few years is that it doesn't matter how unfaithful I am, it's that He is faithful. That doesn't mean that I am to remain unfaithful, but what is important and what is paramount is that He is faithful, my faithfulness is secondary, lest any man should boast.I can see Abraham in the same boat. Here was a man longing for a son to carry on his name and take over his property. Yet no son, even when he obtained a son thru his own means and schemes he was told that Ishmeal was not the chosen seed. So he had to wait. Years and years passed by, until Sarah's womb was dead and he no longer was able to perform.I don't see Abraham standing there year after year just basking in the promises of God as some reed blowing in the wind for spirituality. He was just a human as you and I, frustated and disappointed, love and laughter. It doesn't matter if all hell comes against you, there remains a pocket of faith in your heart that you believe what God hath spoken He is able to perform.If anyone remembers the testimony that Watchman Nee left on a piece of paper in his prison cell before he died. After all those years of torture and trying to persuade him with brain washing techniques, he said, "I still believe that Jesus Christ is the saviour of my soul". (words to that effect). With all that comes against you, you still have that belief that God is God.It's down right frustrating when all your life you've heard about the power of God, been in the prensense of God when it was like a heavy quilt over the congregation, and people getting up healed, someone who was in a cast from head to toe starts moving around the place completely healed.People being filled with the holy Ghost right in the pew. And you long for this manifestation to take place only to find that your dying and there is not a thing that you can do about it. You fast and pray, but still nothing. You try to hang unto everything that you know and believe, only to have it all snatched out from underneath you. What you once cherished has become dung. What was once joy has become sorrow. Your left in the dark regarding His plan and His purpose and His desire for your life. Though I walk thru the valley of the shadow of death, thou art with me, thy rod and thy staff they comfort me, surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life.Is anyone else experincing this, or am I alone on this?Karl
What you once cherished has become dung.What was once joy has become sorrow. Your left in the dark regarding His plan and His purpose and His desire for your life. Is anyone else experincing this, or am I alone on this?I am experiencing this. That's what I meant by dangling from a tree. Are you sick, Bro.? Maybe I missed something. Dian.
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God. Dian rejoice in that you have tasted the goodness of God. Your relationship with Him comes first. I say rejoice!Now when you have this mind, this mind of Christ, He will show you how to love those around you. Imagine how Christ felt when He said O Jerusalem O Jerusalem how many times have I wanted to gather you under my wings. His heart's cry is yours. Your are becoming one with Him. Do you see how He suffered? Do you see what Paul speaks of when he talks about sharing in the sufferings of Christ. Do not condemn but exhort. Love God with your whole heart, and He will show you how you should minister to those around you. Listen to Isaiah 35:3 \tStrengthen the weak hands,\tAnd make firm the feeble knees. 4 \tSay to those who are fearful-hearted,\t“Be strong, do not fear!\tBehold, your God will come with vengeance,\tWith the recompense of God;\tHe will come and save you.” 5 \tThen the eyes of the blind shall be opened,\tAnd the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. 6 \tThen the lame shall leap like a deer,\tAnd the tongue of the dumb sing.\tFor waters shall burst forth in the wilderness,\tAnd streams in the desert. 7 \tThe parched ground shall become a pool,\tAnd the thirsty land springs of water;\tIn the habitation of jackals, where each lay,\tThere shall be grass with reeds and rushes. 8 \tA highway shall be there, and a road,\tAnd it shall be called the Highway of Holiness.\tThe unclean shall not pass over it,\tBut it shall be for others.\tWhoever walks the road, although a fool,\tShall not go astray. Listen again, whoever walks the road, although a fool, shall not go astray.He is with you to guide you and to strengthen you. Again, rejoice for you have seen the Light of Life!In ChristJeff
My dear sister Dian, (from Diane)What a confession!!!!!! Your words blow me away; because just today I submitted a similar testimony (Revival begins with ME) sharing how I too discovered (a few years ago) that I wasn't really saved all these years that I thought I was!!! I still find it hard to actually admit it - but I finally took the big plunge and confessed it on SI. Like you, I too discovered that others don't want to hear it, and are quick to sugar coat it. My best friend said, "Of course you were a Christian!!" I discovered that I didn't fit the criteria of a saved person through my study of Scripture. I was not trusting not in Christ's redemption like I assumed it was. My repentance has involved giving up my trust in the world, others, the church, and esp my own works and righteousness. God has been stripping me of all that - a gruesome process indeed. Before anyone cries out to God, they have to face the horrifying reality about themselves - that no one seeks God. see Rom. 3:10 ff.I praise God, he rescued me and led me to Christ.I share your burden about the many who THINK they are saved, but are not. Dear God, please open the eyes of the blind! Please rescue them - for your glory. PS - You're NOT in trouble now!!! It's when you are oblivious that you REALLY are in trouble!
I think what is really neat (and God ordained) is that over the last couple of years that SI has been online, many people (from different countries) have come on here with the same confession, or at least looking for others who feel the same.They are looking for that deeper life, that they know must exhist. I just thank the Lord, that He awakened something within us to see the truth, to cause us to seek the truth and to want to live it out. Praise God for His mercy! :-) Don't worry Dian, since my "awakening", my mom still thinks I am wacko and will hardly talk to me- and she is also a christian (confesses to be).After awhile you do find a balance, more of a sense of peace (almost) about it all. You learn patience and more wisdom and how to know when to say things and when to just pray about it instead.One thing I have learned more than anything this year is that what i once thought was zeal - was many times flesh.You will question everyone (their faith and motives)and everything at first, but now, I don't as much. I "know" what is and what is not of God, yet I judge less and have confidence in God's ability to do what He does best.I guess what I mean is that I used to think it was up to me to let everyone know the truth and that it was up to me to show others their errors. I still see those errors, but through different eyes. I see them through the potential they could have when Christ is done working with them. :)After many harsh words and being quick to judge, I see that I had taken the wrong approach many times. I've learned to leave many people and situations in the Lord's hands. To be available when needed, but most importantly just to LIVE CHRIST DAILY. This is the best witness, the best way of saying anything to anyone.I have found that even just living a more Christ-like life is an offense in itself :-) I think I came to the conclusion that i never wanted to be a hypocrite, so I better make sure that I search my heart in all areas before saying something to someone else about their lack of living a Christ-like life.The one word, more than any other that the Lord has taught me to learn these past few years is "forbearance". He told me very clearly that i "needed" to learn it. :-) Now I know why. I didn't have much two or three years ago. But I did have zeal and i thought everything had to be said and done RIGHT NOW. I was foolish and now see that God is sovereign. He has it all under control.Blessings to you Dian! Keep pressing in and pressing on. We are all doing the same right along with you.In His love, Chanin
I praise God that you are changing sister! That is great encouragement to see people changing, changing to be more like Jesus. I can see the Lord is doing great job in your heart sister.Keep pressing in and pressing on. We are all doing the same right along with you.Yes! Amen.
If we never know that we are bad we really dont change thank god for what you have done here!!
Hi Dian,I'm looking at dead religion all around me. It's everywhere!I have been thinking about this for a long time, from an extremely specific perspective but honestly, I know I don't know everything. And I don't feel the pressure to evangelise as you do, but, I do feel called to speak into certain lives with whom God brings me in contact. Sometimes I can bide my time and let a relationship grow slowly; others, I'm running after the person asking 'would you mind if we keep in touch?' so as not to miss the moment before I may never see them again or not for a long time. With this in mind two things occur to me; one, of course there is dead religion in the church ... remember how we used to be? two, there is dead religion everywhere else, too - people putting their trust in anyone and anything but God. About this state of affairs, I have been grumpy-growly and snappy-snarly, for a long time, inwardly feeling not ready to take on the world and working out why that might be! It is only recently occurring to me that unless I am conformed to the Lord's joy, offering the world a more cheerful demeanour, I am unlikely to attract anyone to Him! It sounds appalling to own up to this miserable condition, but I've been keeping my distance from people while dealing with my fears and unwillingness to stand in the firing line.Now that I am able to see it so clearly, I'm talking about it with others. I'm finding myself more and more alienated from people. John 2:24, 25 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all [men], and needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.Is there a new way of thinking to apprehend, perhaps?My own family is angry with me now because my definition of salvation has left them in the category of unsaved. A real stink has been created in my so-called Christian family. My mother is angry. My two sisters are angry. They think I have flipped. Today, my sister asked me point blank, "do you think I am saved?" I had to answer honestly, "no". I realize it doesn't matter what I think, but shouldn't we all be thinking what God thinks?I don't think anyone can question the spiritual composure of close family members without risking the loss of the previous status quo in those relationships. Big sigh. Only you can find the grace to pick your way through this minefield, trusting the Lord to give you boldness when necessary and perhaps saying less and praying more, the rest of the time. More and more, I find myself incredulous about my previous assumptions; but this is a good place to be, grappling with stark reality!'..Should we be talking about this?' It's good to share honestly and get feedback, as it helps to confirm our sanity in the Lord. :-)I am in deep waters now. I've never been here before. I feel like God has shot me out of an airplane into a jungle and I've landed in a tree. My feet are just dangling. I feel like something really big has ahold of me, but my feet aren't touching the ground. I can't go anywhere and even if I could, I don't know which direction to go in.Best place to be. Good vantage point, too. Don't panic! He is in you and shall be with you when you get the green light to make the next move of significance. It may sound trite, but 'abide' is the key to discerning what's next.
About this state of affairs, I have been grumpy-growly and snappy-snarly, for a long time, inwardly feeling not ready to take on the world and working out why that might be! It is only recently occurring to me that unless I am conformed to the Lord's joy, offering the world a more cheerful demeanour, I am unlikely to attract anyone to Him! It sounds appalling to own up to this miserable condition, but I've been keeping my distance from people while dealing with my fears and unwillingness to stand in the firing line.Maybe this is what I need to do for a while till I feel my feet touching on something solid. Good words. Love, Dian.
Dian Dear, It is good that you're in this state. The crime of the Laodiceans was not their blindness, not their wretchedness or their poverty but it is because they don't know that they are necked and it's because they say they are rich. Sis, I tell you God is taking you to the first step of Christianity knowing that you are wretched, necked, blind and poor. This is a phase of godly knowledge! So far you say you are rich while you are poor, you say you know while you don't really know, you say that you see when you are blind, you say you are a Christian while you are not. The Lord recently is taking me to the same bone breaking process and I wish he could break me more that I may be filled of His fullness with the extent of the depth of my brokenness. I was recently reading the story of the saints of the catacombs- the first century Christians, and I was totally dismantled like you and I passed through with what seems an identity crises- I said I am a Christian but the contrast shows that I'm not. But this was not without hope. My inner being hopes HIS Salvation! I am ashamed before HIM for I sinned against Him but I hope on whom I have sinned against! Dian this time it is not about your sister and your family or anyone around you ITS ALL ABOUT YOU, God meant to find you and make you his own. For now He is not concerned about the witness you give or not first the vessel has to be dealt! Then you will bring millions to His Kingdom after being dealt with HIM! Don't worry about that. Now is not the time for you to worry on what is going with others, infact keep quiet and simply give your self to be dealt-actually you cannot do otherwise, God has put you in a helpless ground. Dian my dear Sis, I think you are the chosen one for this end time and what I share you is not from my head its from my heart! I long for the "Day of His Power" where he make us his own jewles!Your sis Mekdi
Dian this time it is not about your sister and your family or anyone around you ITS ALL ABOUT YOU, God meant to find you and make you his own. For now He is not concerned about the witness you give or not first the vessel has to be dealt! Then you will bring millions to His Kingdom after being dealt with HIM! Don't worry about that. Now is not the time for you to worry on what is going with others, infact keep quiet and simply give your self to be dealt-actually you cannot do otherwise, God has put you in a helpless ground.Mekdi, you're words speak right to my spirit today. I needed that so bad! I awoke this morning so grieved in my heart. I miss my Mommy! I lay in bed thinking about people in Muslim countries or Jewish families who convert to Christianity. They get completely austracized from their families! No one can feel 'good' about that! I feel awful that my mom and sisters are now distant from me. I lay in bed trying to think how I can 'fix' this problem and I realized I can't. I can't apologize for what I've said, because I meant it. I could apologize for maybe the way I said it, but that wouldn't change anything now. Now is not the time for you to worry on what is going with others, infact keep quiet and simply give your self to be dealt-actually you cannot do otherwise, God has put you in a helpless ground. I didn't see this coming. I went gleefully to this cross, not realizing it was the cross. Now that I'm on it, I don't like it! Jesus said, if he wanted to, he could call 10,000 angels to deliver him off the cross, but I'm glad we can't do that. I thought my face was set like a flint to go to the cemetary, but dying hurts. Nevertheless, I want to go. Is it ok to cry along the way? The angel of the Lord told Lot not to look back, also, there's a scripture that says if we put our hands to the plow and look back, we are not worthy to be His disciples. But...it also says to count the cost before you build the house, unless you get half-way thru and find that you cannot finish it, then look foolish. One time, many years ago, I heard God say, "I'm not playing 'footsie' with you anymore." Footsie is a game that is flirtatious. Two people who are fond of each other touch feet under the table. God wants to be our open love, not just fondling under the table. THAT is gonna cost us everything! Selah, Dian.
Only you can find the grace to pick your way through this minefield, trusting the Lord to give you boldness when necessary and perhaps saying less and praying more, the rest of the time. More and more, I find myself incredulous about my previous assumptions; but this is a good place to be, grappling with stark reality!..Should we be talking about this?' It's good to share honestly and get feedback, as it helps to confirm our sanity in the Lord.Ah yes! Wonderful... abide, always... "...and I in you" The bold above, Oh the very truth of that. It has been so prevalent in experience of late, so often contrary to the fleshly charateristics... And if it is let, it can go much deeper than a silencing of the tongue, our merely un vocalized thought's can still be betrayed by the expressions on our faces. There is still a further reduction to be done.This is some rich content in this thread, you sisters, how I thank God for you. There is often a more penetrating...something... that comes through you.
Dian, your testimony is inspiring. It is wonderful to see how the Holy Spirit is still working on people. It is also true that when you have given yourself over to the Lordship of Jesus, people around you will give you a lot of static because of who they serve.There is one suggestion I would make and that is when someone asks whether you think they are a Christian, it might be best to answer with a question of your own which will tell that person in his/her own mind the answer to his/her question. Just for starters you could ask: have you experienced forgiveness for all of your sins? Or, tell me about your walk with the LORD Jesus? Or, are you obedient to the leading of the Holy Spirit? Or, do you find walking with God a joy? And none of these may be the right one...these are given just to help you start thinking. But when you are being led by the Spirit, He will help you.I have worked as a volunteer in a ministry for 15 years and I am certain a co-worker of mine was not walking with the LORD. She was a Sunday School teacher, knows the Bible BUT and that is the kicker. She gets angry when we discuss 'once saved always saved.' What makes me question her salvation is that I never heard her talk about her daily walk with the LORD. She does not demonstrate the joy of the LORD. But I am not the judge, I am only an observer. And I still love that lady and she knows it.Blessings,Ginnyrose
Dian, I want to add something to the meaning of the part of my post you quoted in your response. Oswald Chambers talks about 'tracts of human nature' which need to be affected by our relationship with the Lord. Many times I've heard it preached that the individual is the only person resonsible for their 'state' (which I started to address in the thread on Healing) and there is truth in both, none of which I am minimising. But, there is more to understand of what is going on as God deals with us, than simply to roll it all up into 'death of self' or some other legalistic phrase.The way I described myself is how I've been feeling. Here, it is necessary to state that some things were only shown up in the light of other Christian lives and this was a source of considerable challenge to my soul. Some might say I am wrong to acknowledge anger, express anger, own up to anger and fear, and, they might think I was taking too much on myself to say I am dealing with it. But, my statement was a gloriously accurate description of what I've been going through for years. I have needed to understand why I was so angry and fearful, in order to be able to access God's cure in a meaningful way. Doctrinal phrases don't go to the individual heart of complex human condition. Believe it or not, God saves us when we are in turmoil, the 100th sheep missing from the fold. We have needs.In fact, solutions are simple once one is willing to scrape away the objections to receiving them so God can apply His ointment or His word to the pinpoint of (often painful) insight He elucidates. This is an organic situation... The idea that the newborn Christian is going to be painlessly disabused of all their misapprehensions as they step from the darkness of unbelief into the clarity of faith in God's Light, is, I now believe, a symptom of the immaturity of those preaching that message. It should read far more about what God is going to do as you walk with Him in the Light - the bit about the blood of Jesus Christ cleansing us from all sin. Somewhere in John's statement is the eternal I AM, ministering the life of the Spirit as we acknowledge our death in principle. This is eternal life.To learn to overcome, as well as to be healed, suggests we must be acquainted with the enemy's direct assaults on the legitimate cannon fodder he finds in our lives - like we are unwittingly holding up a red rag to a bull. Some of this is simple - learning to acknowledge failure and get back on track quickly, recognising weak points that are fairly obvious - but the rest, that are part of the person I had become, these present a source of continuous surprise and horror to one's consciousness.The invisible thinking and being which are rooted entirely in the flesh or the mind of the flesh, DO NOT affect our standing with God in the Spirit, as long as when they are identified to us, we willingly yield them to His ministrations for our deliverance and healing. I strongly believe only God can deliver the exact answers, even if our obedience must co-operate with His power thereafter. One might call this the refiner's fire, but it has felt more more like Jer 1:9,10 - Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth. 10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Notice - 4 demolishing verbs followed by only 2 constructing verbs. This is true.
I am in deep waters now. I've never been here before. I feel like God has shot me out of an airplane into a jungle and I've landed in a tree. My feet are just dangling. I feel like something really big has ahold of me, but my feet aren't touching the ground. I can't go anywhere and even if I could, I don't know which direction to go in. I've never been through anything like this before. Love, Dian.
Bretheren, this thread was started in May of '05 and the above is a quote from my starting post. This is August of '07. I've been a member of SI since August, 04.
A few weeks ago I had a dream in which I was with my daughter and my son in some large park like area. It was a combination of like a national park and amusement park and something like an aquarium like you would visit in a large city. While inside the aquarium portion, my 11 year old son became separated from us and I was panicking trying to find him in the crowd. I was running around trying to find him and finally I spotted him, but he had changed clothes. This fact, (that he had gone to the restroom and changed clothes), made me angry with him because I had been trying to recognize him in the crowd by what I remembered him wearing that day. I was quite upset at that point and I turned to my daughter, who is 28 and said, "Let's go home. Which way is it to the car?" She immediately began leading us out of this huge place, but she struck off into the woods and began to climb up a huge tree and leap from bough to bough and I was trying to follow her, but finally we were at a large river and I was extremely high up in a tree and I was looking at her, (she had crossed this river on the boughs of trees, literally leaping from bough to bough), and I was scared and trembling and frustrated and I just felt it was impossible to go forward or to go backward and I was crying and angry. I didn't like this ridiculous, difficult path which she had taken in trying to get me where I wanted to go and now I was stuck. That was the end of the dream.
When I awakened, as I lay there in bed, I told the Lord, "this is how I feel, spiritually". Once again, I feel stuck very high up in the trees with no way to go forward, back, up, or down, except, in the dream, I suppose I could have gone forward across that river on the tree boughs, but I was too scared.
I think I've actually tried to go back the way I came recently. I went back to church and tried to fit in, but that was a dead end. Now, many things have happened that have left me feeling frustrated and hopeless that things are ever going to change. My mother is dying of cancer. My husband has taken a job working out of town five days a week. My daughter has moved to another state. I work alone on the same frustrating job that I've done for 26 years...
Isn't this a tale of woe...I'm just stuck! It's time for me to take a leap of faith. Last night, I was discussing my dream (about the park) with a friend and I suddenly remembered my post from over 2 years ago where I described feeling as though I had been parachuted by God into a jungle and I was dangling from a tree. I've got to get out of these trees! Love, Dian.
Dear Dian,
It has been a long time hasn't it? Must say I love seeing these old posts resurrected and brought forth again. There has been so much shared, so much prayed for, much of experience and hardship ... trouble.
It did dawn on me that it seems the Lord continues to take those committed to places of difficulty and tension, in fact would almost be concerned if there wasn't something of this nature going on in some form or fashion for very long, not withstanding those [i]times of refreshing[i]pathos[i]blessed
Goodness, hope this doesn't sound like advice, just a pondering.
I think I've actually tried to go back the way I came recently. I went back to church and tried to fit in, but that was a dead end. Now, many things have happened that have left me feeling frustrated and hopeless that things are ever going to change. My mother is dying of cancer. My husband has taken a job working out of town five days a week. My daughter has moved to another state. I work alone on the same frustrating job that I've done for 26 years...
Those two words sister, frustrated and hopeless ... Ah, I understand somewhat, have given in similarly. My prayers for you and your mother, husband. Went through the same with my dear Ma earlier this year.
[i]are ever going to change
You know the scriptures and I am thinking specifically of the love\\hope, [i]believes
Change is always possible sister, even presently, the smallest of signs, the slightest degree of alteration, a spark, those seemingly insignificant things with those that I love is enough to further hope and trust. Have learned far better than to put too much stock nor to little, the proverbial two steps forward, one step back. Of course that differs somewhat from what you are expressing here ...
Times and seasons.
Hope always has change possible no?
Thanks for your heartfelt honesty Dian.
[i]Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
My prayers
Dian,I don't believe God gives you a picture of your life without guiding you out.
God is wanting to do something in your life yet your fear keeps you entangled. The fear of the unknown can and will paralyze us.
You are right you need to be set free.
Dangling in a tree is not where God wants you.
Things happen to us over which we have no control.
God calls us out of our comfort zone. That usually means giving up control and following him with reckless abandon.
You said you went to church and felt like you did not belong and that you feel frustrated over the events in your life feeling like things will never change.
You have had life changing events but don't abandon Hope.
My son had cancer, my young teenage daughter was pregnant and I was going through a divorce all at the same time. Yes, those things were painful yet I more than survived I thrived on the hope I had in the LORD.
Let me remind you the Lord never gives us more than we can bear. He will always come through at just the right time.
I was enduring great emotional pain yet at just the right time I sensed God speaking through saying a bruised reed He does not break and a smoldering wick He does not extinguish. I was revived by those words and realized I was not going to do from the pain.
God can and will deliver you.
Fill you mind with worship through scripture or in song.
My mother who passed away from cancer and is in now in the presence of the Lord had this quote on her refrigerator "Trials are not enemies of faith but opportunities to prove God's faithfulness."
Try to put into words what you want Jesus to do for you and tell Him and let us know so we can be praying.
Life is too short and eternity too long to live safely. God is calling you out of your comfort zone.Let His love fill you.
Wow sis Dian ...
Good to see you! ... :-D
About two weeks ago i came across this old thread ...
TO: SPITFIRE (and anyone else whose life seems to be in a pit) ... 2005/2/23
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4673&forum=35&3
... and i thought about you ... and now here you are! ... :-D
In keeping with the anology (from the old thread) of Joseph's life, in your own private thinking and one on one with God, does this mean you're "spiritually" out of the pit now? ... It doesn't seem like you've reached the "palace" yet (me neither), so are you now in Potiphar's house, or are you past that test and now in "prison" (that's where i am now)? ...
You wrote;
"I'm looking at dead religion all around me. It's everywhere! ... Now that I am able to see it so clearly, I'm talking about it with others. I'm finding myself more and more alienated from people."
All i can say is "WELCOME TO THE CLUB"! ... :-D
Blessings in our beloved Savior Jesus Christ!
PS - Actually you're moving "out" of trouble ... ;-)
Hi Dian,
I've used three different user names through the years as the Lord has taken me deeper into the wilderness and told me to cut off the Internet and then allowed me brief periods of time when I could write something. My time is a bit limited these days. You sent me a precious tape, I'm trying to remember when about two years ago, perhaps a bit longer, with you and your mother singing a hymn.
As to what the tree means, the only thing that came to mind was Zaccheus.
The Lord is faithful to meet us in the midst of barreness and I'm in a very hot desert and my only hope is in Jesus. What a wonderful place, albeit painful, place to be.
I would encourage you to read Isaiah 30 and chapter 50 (the last two verses), Psalms 84, Hab. 3:17-19. I'm sure there are other scriptures but those immediately came to mind.
Here's a few verses from Isaiah 30 (22-24) [b] Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "This is the way; walk in it." Then you will defile your idols overlaid with silver and your images covered with gold; you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, "Away with you!"
What a blessing to see a dear sister in the desert. What can I say, other than "Welcome!" Unfortunately there's no way to make it through while in a tree. Believe me Dian I've tried so many ways to avoid the desert but the Lord has led me back into a deep desert place where noone (including myself) can save me. It's a place where everything is stripped off that's not of Jesus. Sometimes I feel as if I'm literally being skinned, so it's not always pleasing (particularly not to my flesh) but I know it's the Lord doing this. Here's a scripture from Hebrews 13:15 Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name.
Blessings to you sis in the name of Jesus...
Love,
Ed Pugh
Whoa Sis Dian ...
Dense me, but i just noticed yours is a new post on your old one ... :-?
Anyhow you wrote;
"Isn't this a tale of woe...I'm just stuck! It's time for me to take a leap of faith. Last night, I was discussing my dream (about the park) with a friend and I suddenly remembered my post from over 2 years ago where I described feeling as though I had been parachuted by God into a jungle and I was dangling from a tree. I've got to get out of these trees! Love, Dian."
In sticking with the Joseph analogy from the old thread, you said;
"I've got to get out of these trees" ...
With me mine was "i've got to get out of this Waiting Room - this prison if you will ... But here's a conclusion i've come to and it's this ... If like Joseph God has us in prison, or up a tree, for some purpose(s) we'll never understand probably until we reach the palace place, then there's nothing we can really do but remain faithful (the only leap of faith for a prisoner) while we WAIT for Him to free us ...
Gen.41
[1] And it came to pass at the end of two full years, that Pharaoh dreamed:
[8] And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.
[9] Then spake the chief butler unto Pharaoh, saying, I do remember my faults this day:
[10] Pharaoh was wroth with his servants, and put me in ward in the captain of the guard's house, both me and the chief baker:
[11] And we dreamed a dream in one night, I and he; we dreamed each man according to the interpretation of his dream.
[12] And there was there with us a young man, an Hebrew, servant to the captain of the guard; and we told him, and he interpreted to us our dreams; to each man according to his dream he did interpret.
[13] And it came to pass, as he interpreted to us, so it was; me he restored unto mine office, and him he hanged.
[14] Then Pharaoh sent and called Joseph, and they brought him hastily out of the dungeon: and he shaved himself, and changed his raiment, and came in unto Pharaoh.
All it takes for such freedom is God's decision to bring to culmination His plan on our lives, and the next thing you know in an istance it's from prison to palace!
... and we know the rest ...
Prison in Joseph's case probably seemed very dire, and most perplexing to him, especially because of the dream God had given him when he was a boy, but the reality was prison was the last step needed in his spiritually being tempered prior to his being released to his ministry of the greatest good not only to God's people, but to Egypt (the world) as well ...
Trust and rest in Him in your dangling sis, God'll put your feet on the ground when He's ready! ... :-D
[b]Joseph Prepared in the Pit
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=290472622
[b]Joseph Goes from the Pit to the Palace
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=2160473523
[b]Joseph Being Made Prime Minister
(A very sobering sermon for those of we who have a tendency to fret ... "Why God are You allowing this to happen to me ... and for so long"?)
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=322048131
[b]The Benefits of Adversity
(Just a good, solid sermon)
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonssource&sermonID=11803163050
I to can agree with this "one stop" prayer controversy. It is ridiculus what is going on. But I must digress a bit, because we don't know where someone is with the Lord, we ALL must examine ourselves. We have some brother and sisters in the Lord that struggle with a besetting sin, does it mean they are not saved? I have to disagree to some degree concerning our loved ones that claim to be a believer, but they don't live like some of us do. Most of us on SI, are not normal Christians! Praise GOD!! Some believers may not be at that point yet of a deeper walk. Of course every situation is different; you can't live like the devil and claim to know Christ. Only God can reveal to a person if they are truly saved! We can't go and beat our family members over the head. We must pray for them and extend some gentle dialog with them. I think you can share how this awakening has transformered you and share your testimony, but we don't want to cause fear or condemation to cause a brother or sister to stumble. I even have heard Paul Washer has he is blowing down blow after blow of examples of false conversion, he still says that I am not trying to make some of you feel like you are unsaved and then went into later examples of a regenerate believer.(not verbatim)
thats my two cents...
Reformer
Spitfire wrote:
A real stink has been created in my so-called Christian family. My mother is angry. My two sisters are angry. They think I have flipped. Today, my sister asked me point blank, "do you think I am saved?" I had to answer honestly, "no". I realize it doesn't matter what I think, but shouldn't we all be thinking what God thinks? Is salvation that cheap? You can go right on through life with blatant, unrepentant sin, and yet you're going to spend eternity with the Holy God of All Creation? Should we be talking about this? I am in deep waters now. I've never been here before. I feel like God has shot me out of an airplane into a jungle and I've landed in a tree. My feet are just dangling. I feel like something really big has ahold of me, but my feet aren't touching the ground. I can't go anywhere and even if I could, I don't know which direction to go in. I've never been through anything like this before.
moe_mac wrote:
Maybe this passages below will give you some clarity. I don't know if I actually would tell my family they were lost. I might put it in the form of a question and then then rather let God show them if they are. From my experience most likely you are not able to discuss what the scriptures actually say with them now, because they already have there pre-conceived ideas and don't want you or no one else messing up license to sin and ticket to heaven. They probably told you salvation was not by works and that is correct, it is unto good works. You may have to pray for God to send someone else to them if they have closed the door on you. If they have closed that door and are lost you have did what is required all but just keep praying.
Mark 10:29-31
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.
KJV
James 1:2-8
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6 But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.
Matt 5:11-20
11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
13 "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14 "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
The scribes and the pharisees did not believe what Jesus said or that he was God in human flesh. It is HIS SPIRIT within us that far exceeds the rightousness of the scribes and the pharisees. They really had no righteousness at all. It is not our righteousness, but HIS rightousness living in us and thorugh us.
I have experience some of the same hurts with my family. Not a fun thing. But what it boils down to is, who are we going to please? We had rather please our family and God both right, but when there is a choice to be made, we know the final answer. As christians we should have already settled this question in our hearts beforehand, then we don't have to hesitate when it comes about. It is great when we can do both, both please man and God, but it is not always possible, why do you think they killed all of the first 12 except John and sent him in exile.
I feel as if I have been mountain climbing and I've fallen. It seems that I've gone over a cliff. My rope is holding and my pins are holding, but all I can see is rock in every direction. It looks like black granite. It's a sheer face of black granite. I have some broken bones and I can't pull myself up. I yell, but all I hear is my own echo. I've been here a long time. My cellphone is dead. The helicopters were looking for me for a few days, but they stopped a long time ago. My water is almost gone. It would certainly take an expert to get me out of here. I think I'm going to die here. I'm scared.
dear sister I am praying for you..
in his love
charlene
Sis Dian ...
From what you wrote you sound really "broken", and it brought this scripture to mind ...
[b]2Cor.11
[23] ... in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
[24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
[25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
[26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
[27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
There's a saying i often have to self exhort with, "i was feeling really sorry for myself because i had no shoes, then i saw the man with no feet" ... Sounds to me like you're ripe for spiritual promotion ... so hang on in there! (pun intended) :-D ...
Blessings in Him who is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy!
Hi Spitfire...
It is during times like this that we should fall upon the goodness of the Lord. He tells us, "I feel as if I have been mountain climbing and I've fallen. It seems that I've gone over a cliff. My rope is holding and my pins are holding, but all I can see is rock in every direction. It looks like black granite. It's a sheer face of black granite. I have some broken bones and I can't pull myself up. I yell, but all I hear is my own echo. I've been here a long time. My cellphone is dead. The helicopters were looking for me for a few days, but they stopped a long time ago. My water is almost gone. It would certainly take an expert to get me out of here. I think I'm going to die here. I'm scared.
No matter how black the day may seem, the fact remains that we have a God who cannot fail. We have a God who cannot drop us. We have a God who can help us -- no matter where we are. Our Lord is with you where you are. Regardless of your flaws, regardless of your failures, regardless of your flesh -- our God doesn't need to "rush" to your aid -- because He is already beside you. He is longing to hold you, comfort you, and pacify you with his tender mercy. He is a "very present help in times of trouble" -- and one who "understands us in our weakness." He identifies with because He has never stopped watching over you -- not even for a moment. There is no need to rhetorically stretch out for Him -- because He is already beside you. Just speak to Him -- knowing that He is there -- and allow His everlasting and everloving arms to embrace you.
I am praying for you."Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness." - Isaiah 41:10
:-)
Dian,
I'll give you a couple of scriptures the Holy Spirit quickened to my heart that you can hold onto. [b]Psalms 27: 13-14 I am still confident of this: I will see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. Wait for the LORD; be strong and take heart and wait for the LORD.
Here's another one that is painful but very true: [b]Hebrews 12:7-13 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees. "Make level paths for your feet," so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.
There's a David Wilkerson sermon, I would ask to pray about hearing or viewing. It's entitled [url=http://www.tscnyc.org/sermons.php]"Dry Spells"[url=http://www.worldchallenge.org/sermons/video.php]"Dry Spells" video
The Lord has not left you Dian. My prayer is that faith and courage will rise in your heart as you trust Him. Cast all your cares of Him for he careth for you...
Blessings to you dear sister...
Ed
Spitfire wrote:
I feel as if I have been mountain climbing and I've fallen. It seems that I've gone over a cliff. My rope is holding and my pins are holding, but all I can see is rock in every direction. It looks like black granite. It's a sheer face of black granite. I have some broken bones and I can't pull myself up. I yell, but all I hear is my own echo. I've been here a long time. My cellphone is dead. The helicopters were looking for me for a few days, but they stopped a long time ago. My water is almost gone. It would certainly take an expert to get me out of here. I think I'm going to die here. I'm scared.
Dear sister, I would highly encouraged you to hear these two sermon by T.A.Sparks that were recently posted here on SI.
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19453&forum=34]Let us go on[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19494&post_id=152196&order=0&viewmode=flat&pid=152132&forum=34#152196]Ressurection: A living personal reallity
Thank you to all of you.I did download the recommended messages by T. Austin Sparks and I will be listening to them while I work today.
I was looking at The Rock today. It's the only thing I can see in every direction. I can see things in it. It's quite shiny in places. There's one spot where I can see my nasty reflection. I have blood on my face and alot of dirt. I had this thought that perhaps this big rock [i]is[i]is[i][color=FF0000]"Jesus said unto them, Did you never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner; this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."[/color]
This rock I'm on is like Stone Mountain, Georgia. If it fell on you, it would leave nothing but a greasy spot. They say Stone Mountain, down in Georgia runs underground for miles and it's the largest piece of exposed granite in the world.
Re: Some Reflections from the Rock
I loved this insight, Dian. Thank you for sharing it.Jesus asked Peter who he thought he was and Peter said, "You are the Christ", and Jesus said, "Upon this Rock, I will build my Church..." Maybe he wasn't talking about Peter, but about some belief that Peter had.
We have a saying 'he's a chip off the old block', over here. The meaning is obvious. I understand that Peter's name means more like 'a slab of the original [whole] rock' and this makes sense in both directions of what Jesus was saying. It also makes sense of Peter alluding to us as living stones, in his first epistle, and to Jesus being able to say His word is the rock on which we build our eternal house\\home; while Paul could write of the rock in the desert which kept turning up where the Israelites were camped:
1 Corinthians 10:1 - 7
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. [b]For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ
But with most of them God was not well pleased, for [i]their bodies[i]were
It is wonderful to hear you are finding peace - leaning on that Rock - drinking from that Rock and being nourished in spirit on that Rock.
Reply to Spitfire
I get into trouble when I move to fast and don’t wait on inspiration from the Holy Spirit. When I substitute my strength for God’s.
"We that are waiting in Christ when called upon by The Holy Sprit walk in the strength of God, undergirded by the strength of Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we could ask or think (in any given situation)."
Isaiah 40,
31. But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
I feel that I must take the time to share this insight which has come to me over the past few days and is bringing me so much comfort.
As I shared in my previous post, it has dawned on me that God [i]is
Anyway, I'm in a hurry here, but I hope some of you will go look at that picture. There's a huge carving on the front of Stone Mountain of Genereal Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and Jefferson Davis on horseback. Here is a quote from one website: "The largest low relief sculpture in the world, the Confederate Memorial Carving, depicts three Confederate heroes of the Civil War, President Jefferson Davis and Generals Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson. The entire carved surface measures three acres, larger than a football field. The carving of the three men towers 400 feet above the ground, measures 90 by 190 feet, and is recessed 42 feet into the mountain. The deepest point of the carving is at Lee's elbow, which is 12 feet to the mountain's surface."
At one point, when the carving was completed, they held a banquet inside the ear of General Robert E. Lee! When I lived in Stone Mountain, there used to be a restaurant nearby which had pictures inside of the making of the carving. There was an old picture on the wall of those people sitting at tables inside of General Lee's ear and I used to go to dinner at that restaurant and look at that picture and think to myself, "I wonder if any of those people at that table realized how priviledged they were? I wonder if they knew when they were sitting there that no one would ever get to do what they were getting to do again?"
On Monday morning of this week, I went to the dentist with an abcessed tooth. On Monday afternoon, I went to see a Christian counselor and I described to her how I was feeling as if I had fallen off of a huge rock cliff. Monday night I didn't sleep a wink because the dentist had given me some pain medication for my abcessed tooth and so I sat in my prayer chair and cried out to God...As I sat there, he gave me that picture of Stone Mountain. He showed me the carving. I saw the picture on the wall in that restaurant of those people eating in General Lee's ear. I heard God say, "You are dangling right about my ear. If you whisper, I can hear you. If you die here, you will be my earring." And I thought..........what a priviledge. I'm sorry I ever complained. Dian.
Good morning Dian,
First off, what an awesome rock in that picture!
Second, I love this...
"You are dangling right about my ear. If you whisper, I can hear you.
What a tremendous testimony to start the day with. Thank you.
MC
Sister how are you doing..?
Much love
charlene