Andrew Strom: Urgent Warning

Andrew Strom: Urgent Warning

KUNDALINI WARNING ”“ Urgent
-by Andrew Strom

I just saw the video of Rick Joyner announcing that Todd Bentley is back ministering every night at Morningstar in North Carolina and now they have so-called "revival” manifestations eerily similar to Lakeland.

They also announced that they are streaming these big meetings every night on their new TV channel ”“ and they are greatly promoting the whole thing.

Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself ”“ but can I ask a simple question here please?

What kind of "spirit” was it operating in the Lakeland revival ”“ when the leader and main focal-point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the "Holy” Spirit that was anointing something so sensual and unholy?

And now that Todd divorced his wife and married his mistress ”“ are we supposed to welcome him back and this "anointing” with him? What is going on here?

Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high-level ministries not to do what he is doing now -bringing Todd Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not care.

Apparently the "manifestations” are all that matter.

So what exactly are these ‘manifestations’ if they are seemingly at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at all? (I am talking here about the violent "jerking”, uncontrollable laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, ‘portals’, strange "angel” encounters, etc.)

Why do we not see such an ‘anointing’ in the Bible? Why aren’t Jesus or the apostles promoting these manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we see these things all the way through New Age and Hinduism, etc?

Do we not realize that many false religions have their own version of "laying on of hands” that results in these very types of manifestations?

This ‘spirit’ is not in the Bible ”“ but it is (found) all the way through Kundalini-type Hinduism. Don’t you think this should alarm us?

WHAT is KUNDALINI?

If you search for Kundalini and Shakti on the Internet, you will find that multitudes of people in the New Age and Eastern religions still experience these powerful manifestations. Often this is with the help of a Guru, who touches them on the forehead so that they can experience a "Kundalini Awakening”.

As researcher Robert Walker wrote in 1995:

"The meetings which mystic Hindu gurus hold are called ‘Darshan’. At these meetings devotees go forward to receive spiritual experience from a touch by the open palm of the hand, often to the forehead, by the guru in what is known as the Shakti Pat or divine touch.

The raising of the spiritual experience is called raising Kundalini…

After a period when the devotee has reached a certain spiritual elevation they begin to shake, jerk, or hop or squirm uncontrollably, sometimes breaking into uncontrolled animal noises or laughter as they reach an ecstatic high. These manifestations are called ‘Kriyas’. Devotees sometimes roar like lions and show all kinds of physical signs during this period.

Often devotees move on to higher states of spiritual consciousness and become inert physically and appear to slip into an unconsciousness…”

And as guru Shri Yogãnandji Mahãrãja wrote:

"When Your body begins trembling, hair stands on roots, you laugh or begin to weep without your wishing, your tongue begins to utter deformed sounds, you are filled with fear or see frightening visions…the Kundalini Shakti has become active.”

In China there is a popular Kundalini-type movement called ‘Qigong’.

When a Chinese Qigong spiritual master spoke in the USA in 1991, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that many in the crowd began to experience "spontaneous movements”. The master told his audience,

"Those who are sensitive might start having some strong physical sensations ”“ or start laughing or crying. Don’t worry. This is quite normal.”

When you see videos of these "kriyas” or other Kundalini-type manifestations, you would often swear that you are watching a modern "Impartation”-type church meeting. (And I say this as someone who believes strongly in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just don’t believe in "alien” anointings infiltrating the Body of Christ! There is a big difference between Kundalini and the real Holy Spirit).

Since 1993-4, I believe a foreign spirit has been allowed to invade the church ”“ first through Rodney Howard-Browne’s ministry ”“ then Toronto, then the Prophetic movement (which I was part of at the time) and on into Lakeland and many other ministries and movements.

I urge people now to "test the spirits” just as we are commanded to in Scripture. Do not let just anyone lay hands on you. This is a powerful spirit and it has the backing of a lot of big-name ministries. In fact, these men and women are the very ones responsible for allowing it to spread through the body of Christ.

And one day they will be answerable to God for doing so.

We are specifically warned in the Bible that the Last Days will be a time of "seducing spirits,” false prophets, ‘lying signs and wonders,’ and that we always need to watch for "angels of light” masquerading as the real thing.

Why does the modern church not take these warnings seriously? Aren’t we living in the very days that the Bible warns about?

Right now I need to do something that I have never done in such a way before.

I have never before published a list of ministries or movements to watch out for. But this time I have to.

This sickness has gone on long enough. I urge you to cut yourself off from the following ministries and their tainted "anointings” my friends.

Even though some of these people say "good things” at times, it is simply not worth having any involvement with them due to the tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves.

Here is the list-

(1) Todd Bentley.
(2) Rodney Howard Browne ”“ the so-called "Holy Ghost Bartender.”
(2) Rick Joyner or anyone connected with Morningstar Ministries.
(3) John Arnott & any connected with TACF (The "Toronto Blessing”).
(4) Peter Wagner of the ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ who claims to be head of a worldwide network of ‘apostles’ ”“ who publicly endorsed Lakeland and will soon preach at Toronto TACF alongside other "false anointing” advocates.
(5) Mike Bickle and IHOP Kansas City (-I lived nearby for over two years ”“ and know how much they are into all this stuff. Mike Bickle promotes it in his book).
(6) Bob Jones ”“ the Kansas City prophet whose ministry is utterly tainted by it all.
(7) Patricia King and anyone else from ‘Extreme Prophetic.’
(8) John Crowder & anyone connected with "Sloshfest.”
(9) Bill Johnson of Bethel church, Redding ”“ who says some good things but publicly endorsed Lakeland and promotes the "false anointing” very strongly behind the scenes.
(10) Heidi & Rolland Baker of IRIS Ministries ”“ who do good work amongst the poor in Mozambique ”“ but who have also carried and promoted this tainted anointing for years.
(11) Randy Clark, Wes & Stacey Campbell, and other key figures from the "Toronto blessing.”
(12) The Elijah List ”“ and almost anyone featured on it.
Of course there are a huge number of lesser-known preachers and ministries who carry or endorse this Kundalini-type "anointing” around the world. But I have concentrated here on the most influential that I know of.

It really is an enormous issue in the church. I urge anyone who is a supporter of any of the above ministries to really check them out thoroughly. If you find (as I have) that they carry or endorse this false Kundalini spirit, then please stop supporting them in any way ”“ and whatever you do, don’t let them "lay hands” on you!

I am putting everything on the line to be "naming names” like this. But I believe it is that serious. How on earth did we get to the point where "kriyas” just like Hinduism are spreading through the church?

God bless you all
Andrew Strom.

Good post.

This has been out for a good while. My wife and I left a church over it about 5 years ago. We met with the pastor to discuss our concerns (before we met we sent him Strom's video of this warning). He didn't want to hear it.

I don't mind conservative charismatic-ism but a lot of the current popular movements (eg Bethel) are very new-agey.

The thing is that we must use discernment
concerning any type of physical manifestation
that is taking place in a meeting.

There are some things that are obviously
demonic manifestations, but people react
differently when the Holy Spirit comes upon
them.

I agree with Andrew Strom on much of what
he says, but I have seen him miss it on a
move of God, because he was judging it
by the manifestations and not by the fruit.

This has been the case throughout the
history of revivals. The Spirit of God can
be quenched and grieved by the lack of
discernment by calling things to be of
God that are of the flesh or of the devil.
But the Spirit of God is also grieved by
calling that which God is doing to be of
the devil.

Mike-- that sounds good but I have never been in a charismatic service where the pastor or elder calls a person "out of order" who is exhibiting bizarre or disruptive manifestations.

I think that's the problem. In most, if not all, charismatic services it seems that "anything goes." It's as if they are afraid to do what you mention- quench the HS. But this failure to act does harm to the honor of God. This is troubling and Art Katz wrote at least a couple of articles about the problem.

It would be wonderful if a pastor of a charismatic congregation had the guts to tell someone with bizarre manifestations to knock it off, or at least escort them out of the room and talk in private. I have never personally seen it happen.

Brother,

I believe that you are right, and when it is
obvious that there is a demonic
manifestation taking place in a service, then
the person should be removed, and the
demons should be dealt with. In some
instances, demons will manifest when there
is a heavy presence of God.

There are also mature leaders in Charismatic
churches that are sensitive to the Holy Spirit
but also are discerning, and will not allow
demonic manifestations to take control of the
service.

Mike wrote: "There are also mature leaders in Charismatic
churches that are sensitive to the Holy Spirit
but also are discerning, and will not allow
demonic manifestations to take control of the
service."

I am sure there are. What do you think one of these mature leaders should do when there is a claim of a gold dust glory cloud or feathers falling?

Not trying to be snarky- I am seriously interested how this should be handled.

To me it is so damaging seeing the amount of deception that abounds in the church.

2 Thessalonians 2King James Version (KJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Especially with verse 10 people do not have a love of the truth. I would so love a revival in my own life. I feel almost like with the christiandom that it is almost like wading around in sewage.

Yet Jesus has his true church

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

1 Timothy 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

I remember last time Todd Bentley was on the move I had spent hours to just get the facts on Todd Bentley on the Wikipedia site as people were following him

We should always not focus on miracles as the Bible talks that the antichrist will call fire down from heaven

Revelation 13:13
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

We should not focus on Miracles but more doctrine

Galations 1
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The thing is if anyone preaches another gospel let him be accursed to me people like Todd Bentley and others are only puppets for the Devil.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

To me the greatest deception is self deception and I wish the lord would deliver me from it.

I was trying to find Denny Kensington Sermon on self deception

This brings to mind the scripture about the woman caught in adultery.. Seems JESUS was writing names in the sand..
I believe... He who has no sin let him throw a stone.. John 8

I believe Noone has the right to Name names unless their name is on the list too...

Just my take from being involved in mininstry for many years..
Create in me a clean heart Oh LORD renew a right spirit in me.
David cried.. He wanted the LORD to look at His heart.

Perhaps we all should look at our hearts and take the beam out of our eyes before we see the log in our brothers or sisters eye???

In Christ
Sister Frannie EAGLEFLYING

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Brother in the Body Of Christ
I am a member of the Body of Christ. and I believe that the LORD will sort all this out when He opens the books on us all.. My point we are all accountable.
I am not a babe in the LORD and I am free to speak what I believe the LORD put on my heart..
Im not here to debate.. Im here to speak what I believe the LORD told me. I do hope we can agree to disagree.. I think Steve Hills devotional today repeats what I BELIEVE the Lord showed me yesterday.
In Christ
A sister in the BODY OF Christ.

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January 22
Busybodies
And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Luke 6:41, NASB
If we were continually checking our motives to make sure we were in line with God, we would have little time to look upon the shortcomings of others. It was Ira Sankey, evangelist D. L. Moody’s song leader, who made the pointed statement: "It doesn’t take half a man to criticize.”

There are some whose restless, insinuating, searching humor will never suffer them to be quiet unless they dive into the concerns of all those about them. They are always outward bound but never homeward. They are perpetually looking about them but never within them. They can hardly relish or digest what they eat at their own table unless they know what and how much is served up to another man’s. They cannot sleep quietly themselves unless they know when their neighbor rises and goes to bed. They must know who visits him and who is visited by him; what company he keeps; what revenues he has and what he spends; how much he owes and how much is owed to him.

These words, penned by Dr. Robert South over 250 years ago, remarkably describe many of us today. It would be wise for us to heed the counsel found in today’s scripture text. Let us put more effort into the removal of what blocks our vision in order to see clearly how to genuinely help others.
Genesis 23; Matthew 22;
Nehemiah 12; Acts 22

NT: John 8:4 they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5"Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?”

OT Law: Lev.20:10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

The Pharisees were NOT applying the law justly when they accused this woman. Where was the man? They said she was caught in adultery. They were wanting to stone the woman but letting the man go free.

Scripture does I tell us what Jesus wrote on the ground but it does not take much imagination to guess what he wrote based upon the law and what the accusers were saying.

Sandra

I believe that false teachers and prophets
should be called out by name and held
accountable. However, that does not
mean that if a brother is off on some
doctrine of the faith other than the
doctrine of Christ that he is a false teacher
or prophet.

I had conversations with Andrew Strom
through a group that we were both a part
of in the 90's. It is common for heresy hunters to
throw true servants of God and certain
movements under the bus because of
certain associations. Andrew Strom has
done this in the past.

To see someone slithering around on the
floor in a meeting is obviously demonic.
However there are many times when the
Spirit of God comes upon someone in
a revival meeting that they will tremble
and even shake. One example that comes
to mind is that just prior to the Welsh
Revival, Evan Roberts had nightly visitations
from God for several months. He shook
so hard in his bed that he woke up his
brother. "
last spring, when praying by my bedside before retiring, I was taken up to a great expanse ”“ with out time and space. It was communion with God. Before this a far-off God I had. I was frightened that night, but never since. So great was my shivering that I rocked the bed, and my brother, being awakened, took hold of me, thinking I was ill."
(From Evan Roberts Testimony).

Let us prove all things and hold fast to that
which is good. We will know them by their
fruits.

"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act."

Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Like I said earlier, my wife and I left a church because of the leadership's openness to these types of manifestations. There were two women specifically who exhibited this exact kundalini jerking and shaking and uncontrollable laughing. We tried to talk reason to the pastor but he said that the women told him they could not control it. Why that was not a red flag for him, I have no idea.

I certainly understand that the HS does manifest physically. But in my opinion it should always bring glory to God, not denigrate Him. Why would God cause people to jerk and flop like a fish on a pier, or make people crawl around and bark. And there is a difference between shaking or trembling under the heavy presence of God (like Evan Roberts) and flopping around like a fish.

Right on Jeff.

I sure agree about the Brownsville sermons. I have a bunch by Mike Brown and Bob Gladstone- so strong. I think if dr brown was asked today he would agree that things went a little too far. But if you listen to the baptism testimonies you can tell people were genuinely repenting and getting saved.

Brothers and sister..

GOD moves the enemy comes in .. WHO IS GREATER GOD OR THE ENEMY?? Yes we must test all spirits..
What spirit is operating here?? MERCY?? So sorry but I dont see any mercy.. Seems that unless we were ALL under HIS mercy we would be consumed.. Lam 3:22
I will continue to side on the side of Mercy.. I am in full time ministry. If I threw people away I would feel terrible and not deserving to be called HIS daughter representing HIM.. GOD NEVER GAVE UP ON ANYONE..
The church is supposed to be a hospital for people who make mistakes. If these people did they need to repent. I was not there. IF THEY DID GOD WILL FORGIVE THEM... SHOULDNT WE..???
I do know that I will be more careful not to be invovled in such posts.. What a witness to the lost dying world.. Where is the MERCY.. Where is the LOVE..???
be BLESSED BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THE LORDS' BODY OF CHRIST

David Wilkerson Today
A Ministry of World Challenge
SATURDAY, JANUARY 23, 2016
GOD DOESN’T GIVE UP ON US
by Claude Houde
I grew up in an environment where no one expressed emotion. It was simply a question of survival! When I came to know the Lord, so many things changed. I will be eternally grateful for my first years in the faith and for those who so patiently taught me and guided me in my first steps with God. They are my spiritual mothers and fathers and I love them. However, in the mentality of the evangelical church of that era, the same attitude existed: We don’t talk about problems and pain; lift up your head and walk strong; we can do it, go, go, go! And that attitude, now wrapped in Bible verses, persists: "We can do all things . . . rejoice always . . . in everything give thanks . . . lift your eyes . . . lift up your head . . . you’re a soldier! Up! Up! Up!”

Dear friend, when we stand with our head held high, shoulders straight, and eyes toward the sky, His arms are carrying us. Now don’t miss this. When our eyes stare downward and we are weary and beaten, in the desert, through famines and sorrow, despairing because of what has been lost or destroyed, it is written, "Underneath are the everlasting arms.” "A broken reed He will not throw away” (Isaiah 42:3).

The children who played all day on the banks of the lakes where Isaiah grew up (he is the one who gives us this incredible promise) knew this game. They would pick up a reed ever so cautiously, and as they blew into it, a high pitched, flute-like sound would fill the air as the kids laughed and screamed with delight. If the fragile reed broke, it would become useless, so they would throw it away and pick up another one. But God says, "I will not throw away what has been broken.” In essence, He is saying to you, "If your life has lost its melody, its song, if your prayer or praise is gone, if your silence screams for your altar at night, I will restore you. I will come and nurse the reed for as long as it takes, until you have recaptured your music and your joy before me.”

God says, "I don’t throw people away; I will not give up on you. Build your altar and I will rebuild you. I will not put out the flame that is still burning.”

Claude Houde is the lead pastor of Eglise Nouvelle Vie (New Life Church) in Montreal, Canada. Under his leadership New Life Church has grown from a handful of people to more than 3500 in a part of Canada with few successful Protestant churches.

Read this devotional online

Frannie-

You seem to be overreacting a tad.

No one here- at least not me- is for not showing mercy and throwing people away.

But these leaders who are supporting and encouraging these devilish manifestations are NOT SEEKING MERCY. Quite the contrary- they are leading innocents down a path of a satanic new-age "christianity." If they sought mercy and repented, hallelujah! I'd be rejoicing.

Do we simply turn a blind eye to such things? How will people know they are being led down the path of deceit unless someone warns them?

Sure, we all have our sins. But we are not all leading congregations. Those that do must be held to a certain standard- in particular the standard to not allow the devil in God's house.

Jeff...thanks for all your posts you've contributed to this thread.

And TMK...you are correct in stating that there has been no lack of mercy by any posters on this thread. Nor is there anyone here guilty of throwing people away.

I am very familiar with the Brownsville
Revival, and yes there were manifestations,
yes some of them were fleshly, but the
fruit was there. The Brownsville Revival
had excellent leadership. John Kilpatrick,
Michael Brown, Steve Hill are lovers of
the truth. They wanted to keep their
hands off of what the Spirit was doing as
much as possible, so not every fleshly
manifestation was called down, because
it would of done more harm than good.
Steve Hill preached strong messages of
repentance, and the Holy Spirit confirmed
the word with numerous salvations,
backsliders coming home, and the Body
of Christ being renewed and refreshed
by the presence of God.

Brothers,

Great post and great topic of which I fully agree. I will say the list needs added to and include, Hinn, Copeland, Hagin, Dollar, DuPlantis....

One thing I can say about the Holy Spirit is that He will lead and guide us into all truth. Looking back I can testify the Holy Spirit never failing to warn or protect me from going down the wrong path. Even before receiving the HS after committing my life to Christ 9 years earlier I can look back and see how He protected me from following any one of the men named in this thread.

At the time I did not understand it but when I look back I can say that God is faithful, period.

The problem with those who are deceived, is not Gods fault, or the Holy Spirits fault ALL of the fault lies WITHIN the flesh of men, period. Men choosing to be led astray because they give into the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and their own pride, period.

While I am not afraid to call sin, sin, or to name the names of heretics, false teachers, and blasphemers I can say that I truly DO tremble before the Lord and am careful to inspect my own heart first.

One thing that concerns me just as much as the false manifestations within these various movements are those who overstep their bounds and end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

While some ministers like John MacArthur is right in saying what these false shepherds are doing is wrong, sinful, and demonic, he also throws out the true with the false.

Todd mentioned he has never been in a service where those who were out of order were never called out or removed by the leadership. However, I have only been in fellowships where that very thing has happened on numerous occasions.

One of the churches I have attended for 5 years straight beginning in 2004 and then periodically since 2009 does that very thing.

The pastor will absolutely not tolerate disorder, manifestations in the flesh, and has stopped people mid sentence or disorder when he discerned it was not the Holy Spirit.

This is the only church that I am aware of in my state where the Holy Spirit moves every week through the prophetic, exhortation, spiritual songs, Psalms, Hymns, words of wisdom, words of knowledge. Nothing fancy, nothing fleshly, but decently and in order.

One thing that happens every time I attend and have heard from numerous other members is that whatever has happened in ones week prior to attending a service is that whatever God is ministering to them about it is confirmed in the church service.

For example, if I have something I might be studying, praying about, burdened with, or conversing with others about, when I get to church, it is confirmed through the songs that are sung, the gifts of the Spirit, and the preaching.

It is truly like having your mail read every week without fail. When I first started to attend this church, my own mother whom I had been ministering to for years that she needed saved started coming with me to this church.

My mother, an Italian immigrant, was raised in the Catholic church. I got saved in 1988, filled in 1997, and began to attend this church in 2004. For reasons to lengthy to mention as to why my mother began to attend this church with me, I will just say, she was a wonderful loving mother, and like most mothers, she was one of a kind and I was her baby boy and she felt she needed to be with me while I was transitioning from one church to another.

Anyway, it took about 45 minutes to get to church every Sunday, While driving we would discuss spiritual things and at this point my mother was full of questions that I would answer from the scriptures.

Now no one knew what we were discussing in that car on the way to church but me, her, The Lord, and the devil. When we got to church and the gifts began to flow, words were coming forth on the very topic we were discussing.

Once the Pastor got in the pulpit the very details including the scripture references I gave my mother were brought forth. It was an undeniable confirmation my own mother could not deny.

This happened EVERY week. Attending this church led to my mothers salvation. There was no major miracles or manifestations of healing, deliverances, etc.. Just steady manifestations of the Holy Spirits presence and the confirming of the Word through song, preaching, and word gifts.

My brother in law who is Spirit filled who has only been attending this church since the Spring of 2015 on occasion has been going regularly for the past few months.

He also confessed to me that things he is studying and praying and meditating on are brought up in the church service and has been happening regularly.

Now this church, just like me and many other anointed men of God believe there is a much greater move of God coming however, we are not focused on such moves, we are focused on God.

Many men who started out right were led astray, just like the one prophetic warning someone posted here from the early 1900's, very good btw. I do not know the whats, whys, wheres, and whens in Gods calendar but I know when God does move we are going to see a tremendous flood of souls coming into the Kingdom but an even greater flood of those who are deceived swept away.

I appreciate everyone's input on this and I am so thankful when we can agree and speak the same thing.

Sister Frannie, while I disagree with the statement that you made that there is no love and no mercy here on this topic. I hope you would pray, meditate, and ponder what is being said by the brothers.

I get into many conversations and discussions with people who believe that a Christian can NEVER judge, discern, or call a spade a spade. The truth is and which has been said several times, that is just not biblical truth.

Our motives in judging and naming names, number one should be that we ourselves are not guilty of the very things were are judging or condemning.

Secondly, our motive in doing so should be love, mercy, and compassion, not to condemn or leave one outside the realm of hope, forgiveness, and Gods love. If one is unwilling to repent all the love, mercy, and compassion will avail nothing.

John 3:16 is one verse that is so widely misinterpreted today. While Gods love is fully sufficient to save every human being ever born, MOST are not WILLING to receive that love.

The only ones this verse says will not perish are only those who choose to believe, it says nothing about those who choose not to believe. And if one TRULY believes, he will repent, obey Gods word, and depart from evil.

To give anyone any hope of salvation or Gods love when they are unwilling to repent, obey, and depart from sin is not love at all. They are in need of the fear of the Lord not sweet talk. I have known for some time now that when we cast pearls before swine, the unrepentant and proud will turn and rend you with those words.

Telling an individual that God loves them before they realize why, and that their sins have separated them from God only serves to harden them the more. They say, How dare we tell them that sinners will not inherit heaven? God loves everyone!

Psalms 5:5-6 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. (6) Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

In the body of Christ we have peacekeepers and peacemakers. A peacekeeper only seeks to keep peace with everyone irregardless of their lifestyle and choices. A peacemaker will speak the truth to his brother and point out sin and error in his life so that that lost/deceived brother might make peace with God.

James 3:13-18 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. (14) But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. (15) This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. (16) For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. (17) But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. (18) And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

As for trembling before the Lord, the bible has much to say in us working out our own salvation in fear and trembling.

Thanks for sharing that David. Sounds like you are part of an awesome fellowship.

Keep pressing in brother. It's war.

""Sister Frannie, while I disagree with the statement that you made that there is no love and no mercy here on this topic. I hope you would pray, meditate, and ponder what is being said by the brothers. I have.. I take the meat and spit out the bones and check my bible for all things..

I get into many conversations and discussions with people who believe that a Christian can NEVER judge, discern, or call a spade a spade. The truth is and which has been said several times, that is just not biblical truth.
Im not saying that.. Im saying there are people on this list who are moving on the Mercy side..
Like Rick Joyner.. If someone is divorced and they repent.. WIll they not be allowed to come to church and be used by GOD.. Not what my bible says.

The Message of the Cross is about MERCY.. is what I have learned in my walk with JESUS.. there were three men that night JESUS TOOK OUR PLACE..
The man on the left did not WANT JESUS or His love and Mercy.
JESUS took all of our places,, He knew knows we will mess us.. BUT HIS ARMS ARE WIDE OPEN EVEN NOW..
The man on the Right.. missed the mark as we all have..
HE REPENTED.. JESUS had Mercy on Him and HE forgave HIM.. and said He would remember Him in paradise..

""Our motives in judging and naming names, number one should be that we ourselves are not guilty of the very things were are judging or condemning.

Secondly, our motive in doing so should be love, mercy, and compassion, not to condemn or leave one outside the realm of hope, forgiveness, and Gods love. If one is unwilling to repent all the love, mercy, and compassion will avail nothing'"" I agree..

Brothers and sisters.. I am a serious believer.. I am saying that yes I agree we need to test the spirits..
I choose to take the meat and spit out the bones.. As for the manifestations like dogs ect.. I do not agree THEY ARE OF GOD I am not a babe in CHRIST..

Everything must be done decently and in order.. and confirmation to your spirit... like this brother Dave said..

There must be confirmation..
Paul said we prophesy in part... . in part....
1 cor. 12, 13, 14..
We need to be in LOVE...
IN THE LAST DAYS THE LOVE OF MANY will wax cold.. I cor 13 is in the middle of the explanation of the gifts.
THE GREATEST GIFT IS LOVE........

So.. in agreement and disagreement in some areas.. GOD SEES ALL THE HEARTS. and I love the old writers also and have grown with them still do..
Tozer said: Trials are the necessities of our growth..
ALL THINGS MUST BE DONE IN LOVE IS MY HEART HERE..
I will continue to take the meat and spit out the bones.
for when I get to church its not perfect because IM NOT perfect but being perfected and changed daily by HIS presence and Love and MERCY.. Without His Mercy we would all be consumed.

God Bless u all Brothers and sisters.
In Him
Frannie/Eagleflying

Thank you Todd, Frannie, and Leslie. Frannie, thanks for elaborating also and helping me to understand better your convictions and premise.

I agree 100% in that 1 Corinthians 12 & 14 hinge upon chapter 13. I have greatly missed the mark with chapter 13 when I received the Holy Spirit and gained so much knowledge.

For a time I had become spiritually prideful and was beating people over the head with the truth which led to the breakdown in my marriage and my wife eventually divorcing me.

All I can say is, BUT GOD.....

God is faithful, willing, and able and in the very mercy you speak of He helped me see where I made a mess of things. The truth was still the truth I just wasn't delivering it in love.

So let me say, I also put a great emphasis on love. As I pondered Pauls words regarding faith, hope, and love I spent many many nights thinking on this chapter and why love is the greatest of the three.

Love is the only one of the three we will be taking with us into the Kingdom of God. It is eternal!

When we finally come into the presence of the Almighty, we will no longer need faith and hope because when we see Him we shall be like Him and know all things.

God is Love..

When I was able to grasp this truth and loved my wife, she returned and we remarried 9 years ago this past September.

When it comes to truths in Gods word like love I pray daily for God to help me maintain a balance and order in what I say, and how I say it. God has made us stewards not only over earthly possessions but stewards of His Word, truth, relationships...

I do quake and tremble should I fall short and cause any of the little ones to stumble.

Like you said Frannie, I take the meat and spit out the bones and sometimes I even circle back and find that the bones may have a little flavor after all.

I confess I am still a work in progress..

Blessings, Everyone!

"One thing that concerns me just as much as the false manifestations within these various movements are those who overstep their bounds and end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

While some ministers like John MacArthur is right in saying what these false shepherds are doing is wrong, sinful, and demonic, he also throws out the true with the false."

David,

Thank you brother for bringing the needed
balance into this discussion. Our goal should
always be to speak the truth in love. We
should always seek to build up the Body.
When we are always looking for what is
wrong with our brother, we can find ourselves
working with the accuser of the brethren. I
have known saints that thought their job
was to go around getting everyone
straightened out, not knowing that instead
of discernment, they were operating out of
a critical spirit.

I believe that false teachers and prophets
should be called out by name and held
accountable. However, that does not
mean that if a brother is off on some
doctrine of the faith other than the
doctrine of Christ that he is a false teacher
or prophet.

I had conversations with Andrew Strom
through a group that we were both a part
of in the 90's. It is common for heresy hunters to
throw true servants of God and certain
movements under the bus because of
certain associations. Andrew Strom has
done this in the past.

To see someone slithering around on the
floor in a meeting is obviously demonic.
However there are many times when the
Spirit of God comes upon someone in
a revival meeting that they will tremble
and even shake. One example that comes
to mind is that just prior to the Welsh
Revival, Evan Roberts had nightly visitations
from God for several months. He shook
so hard in his bed that he woke up his
brother. "
last spring, when praying by my bedside before retiring, I was taken up to a great expanse ”“ with out time and space. It was communion with God. Before this a far-off God I had. I was frightened that night, but never since. So great was my shivering that I rocked the bed, and my brother, being awakened, took hold of me, thinking I was ill."
(From Evan Roberts Testimony).

Let us prove all things and hold fast to that
which is good. We will know them by their
fruits.

This is why, I believe, that manifestations in and of themselves are not the issue. Spiritual discernment and the active operation of the gift of discerning of spirits is the issue (and these are two very different things). I have seen the gift of tongues and interpretation in operation, and it was powerful in its effect. I have also seen "tongues and interpretation" that were totally from the mind and the flesh...none of the Holy Spirit in it at all. Many young believers present could not tell the difference. We need mature believers who seek God actively, who are filled with the Holy Spirit, and who can exercise discernment and operate in the gifts of the Spirit.

I will be honest with you, I tend to agree with Bro. Strom on this particular issue; I think this particular movement is rife with error. While at the same time I know very solid believers who are in some of these types of movements that I know to be walking with God and are not in error. I have seen some manifestation (Never barking, slithering, or the like) such as falling out, shaking a bit, etc. that were simply a reaction of a person's flesh to the power of God, and they were not out of line. I have also seen the same manifestations that were totally out of order and in the flesh. We have to have discernment. We must be mature. We absolutely have to walk with God daily. Otherwise, we might be deceived as well.

"
This is why, I believe, that manifestations in and of themselves are not the issue. Spiritual discernment and the active operation of the gift of discerning of spirits is the issue (and these are two very different things). "

I don't believe that there is one person that has been reading the Sermon Index posts for any length of time would disagree with what Andrew Strom says about the Kundalini spirit, and those ministers that are allowing these types of demonic manifestations to take place in their meetings are lacking in discernment and are in a very dangerous position spiritually because this does open the door to the demonic in the lives of Christians.

The issue that I have with Andrew Strom and with those of you that put out a list of names of those that are supposedly false prophets and teachers is that you are slandering some of God's true servants and spreading lies to those that look to these forums as upholding the truth and exposing the counterfeit.

Since you don't have a problem with freely naming names on a list because if Andrew Strom did it, surely it must be the truth, then I don't have a problem in naming names either.

Mike Bickle is one of the names on Andrew's list of false prophets and teachers. But yet does Andrew Strom really know what Mike Bickle teaches? Does he know the staff of Godly men that are teaching at IHOP? Does he know that Mike Bickle would never allow a Kundalini spirit in one of his meetings?
If you think that all shaking and trembling are demonic then you are not going to hear anything that I am saying. I have heard Mike Bickle teach the young people at IHOP about discernment and avoiding manifestations that do not bring glory to God, and that there are fleshly manifestations out there that should be avoided.

Mike Bickle is doing a tremendous job with the young people at IHOP, and just because he was at one time involved in the prophetic movement and had fellowship with some that might be considered to be a false prophet or teacher does not mean that he embraces all that they say or do.

It is wrong to publish list of names as Andrew Strom does on who he considers to be a false prophet or teacher, because you might be right on 90% but what about the 10% that you are falsely accusing.

Mike-

You are correct- there is mixture, which is what makes this a dicey issue. Bickle, for eg, may not allow it but may associate with those who do (not sure if thus is the case- just using it as an eg).

That's why I can't paint Brownsville with the same brush as Toronto.

Carmine-

I am curious if you have ever heard any of the sermons preached during Brownsville.

For many years I have had a passion for
revival, and have done much reading on
great revivals of the past with an objective
in mind to find out how the revival started,
the results of the revival, and what ended
the revival.

All Christians want revival, but when it
comes, it seldom meets people's
expectations, and the ones that generally
have the hardest time are the religious
leaders of the day, the well known men
that pride themselves on the knowledge of
the Word, and have great difficulty dying
to their own wisdom and knowledge.

It is very interesting to study the Great
Awakening, because you find the same
debates going on back then as what we
are having today.

Some of the leading preachers of that day
rejected the Great Awakening because of
the many manifestations that were occurring
during this great move of God. Johnathan
Edwards wrote much on the wonderful
awakening that was taking place in New
England at that time, and cautioned the
people not to judge what was happening on
the basis of the manifestations that were
taking place.

Charles Chauncy was one of the most
renown preachers and theologians of that
day, and utterly rejected the Great Awaken
Ing because the manifestations that were
taking place did not line up with his
theology.

We all love Andrew Murray and his rich
writings, and it is a fact that he prayed for
revival, and when it came, he saw it at
least in the beginning as causing disorder
in the church.

We can learn much from studying the
revivals of the past.

This is one of the best sermons I have ever heard.

I need to make a comp out of it.

In fact every sermon Michael brown preaches is excellent.