Hypothetical prophetic question re Ezekiel 38

No, I wouldn't lose faith no matter what happened.

And FYI - I am not a dispensationalist nor a pre-tribber & I don't believe Russia is Magog prophetically. They aren't the "country due north of Israel". Turkey is. All of the cities mentioned in these prophecies & the seat where Satan's throne is point to modern day Turkey (Tuball, Pergamum, all the rest).

Nothing that happens on the world stage would shake my faith whatsoever, by the way. God is sovereign & we see in part & know in part.

And Tim Lahaye's Left Behind eschatology was HORRIBLE IMHO. I don't agree with most of it whatsoever. But I'm still not a preterist.

God Bless,
Jeff

As a young believer I studied quite a bit of prophecies and I have a bit my own version how things could unfold.
I don't trust most end time books, especially by "best- selling authors ", I think what some of those authors are doing best is selling.
I'm also a bit from the "old school " and believe that Magog is Russia.

But my faith is not based on eschatology, or the "correct " end time view, it has to be based on the risen Lord and Savior who has overcome the world.
Our part is to be prepared, to have our lamps full of oil etc.

Maranatha - come Lord Jesus, come !

Amen docs. I agree with your comments/sentiments

Brethren, respectfully, we do not have time to deal in hypotheticals. The downside of a forum is that we can engage in hypotheticals and what ifs. But the things that are happening in this age compel us to look at the geopolitical dynamics of what is happening in the Middle East. This is REAL. This is not reality TV like Survivor. But this is REAl. And a reality that we must wake up to!!!

It is estimated that several nations are involved in the Syrian conflict. Either aiding the Assad government or trying to topple it. But consider Russia, the United States, Turkey, Germany, France, Great Britain, Iran, and even China is starting to show an interest in Syria. And I just named the big powers.

A few days ago Iran just tested a missile that has the range to hit Israel. Either with a conventional dirty bomb or biochemical weapon. Or perhaps a nuclear weapon. Iran has said time and again that their goal is to wipe Israel off the map. Iran is also making it known that they are not abiding by the so-called nuclear agreement that they have suckered the west with.

However if you want a hypothetical scenario. And one that I think is very realistic. Israel possesses several hundred tactical nuclear weapons. Israel has as its nuclear doctrine the Samson Option. Anyone familiar with the Old Testament story nose with Samson did in the temple of the Philistines. He brought the house down. If Israel feels like that they are threatened with their backs against the sea. They will launch. Meaning they will take everybody with them.

During the 1972 War when Israel was being overrun by its Arab Neighbors. They went to a nuclear alert. It was only by the intervention of God that Israel did not use nuclear weapons.

In Gulf War 1 Saddam Hussein was launching scud missiles at Israel. Probably in at the strategy to destroy the invading Coalition coming against Iraq at the time. The concern of George Bush and Caspar Weinberger was that Israel would retaliate by using nuclear weapons. There was a lot of arm-twisting that begged Israel to not launch. Again God's intervention that nuclear weapons were not used.

Brethen I suggest we stop dealing in hypotheticals and wake up to the reality of the geopolitical events that are taking place today. The Middle East is a tinderbox ready to explode. And explosions may very well be in radioactive nuclear clouds. This is not fear-mongering. But this is the time in which we are living in.

Again to Our Hope must be in the Lord Jesus Christ. But let us come out from our keyboards and stop being hypothetical and start being realistic.

Brethren I say respectfully let's stop looking at 7O AD and come into 2016. We are living in a dangerous world. And one that could very well give itself over to nuclear war.

Again we must look up for our Redemption is Drawing Near. But I also exhort you to educate yourself in current events and the geopolitical Dynamics that are happening in today's

My thoughts respectfully posted.

Brother Blaine

Those Iranian missiles they tested had the words written on them:

"Israel must be wiped out" (the "little Satan" in their Islamic religion/apocalyptic eschatology, with the USA being "the great satan").

Iran also released through their top brigadier general commanders the boasting comments yesterday that they aren't abiding by ANY agreements, sanctions, etc. & boasting that "the Zionist regime will be destroyed" & that they "have 10x the missile arsenal of Hezzbollah". It's common knowledge that Hezbelloah has 100,000 missiles. That means they are boasting that they have 1,000,000 missiles & that Israel (& the USA) are their enemies for which they intend these missiles.

Jeff, speaking hypothetically of course. Lol :-)

I'm with you Tim and TMK,

No one knows exactly how this world is going to end and what is important is how we are living and walking with God today (Lord teach us to number or days).

I firmly believe the OT prophets were given revelation of spiritual events and that they are not talking about physical events, regarding the end times. That is why everyone who tries to tie their prophecies to physical events will always get it wrong. Just like Israel in Jesus' day got it wrong looking for solely natural events they missed the spiritual nature and reason for the physical events that did occur.

Looking around today I can see why men are bound to the natural. I think the true story is right in front of our nose and thankful that this helped clear it up for me.

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/revel.html

It really helps you to not be moved by all the sensationalism abounding, today.

2 Peter 1:16-17

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1 Peter 4:7-10

But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Use hospitality one to another without grudging.

Julius, brother respectively think about what are saying. If the Old Testament prophets were only given spiritual revelations of things to come. Then we would have to say that the birth of Jesus was spiritual and not physical. We would have to say that the death of Jesus was spiritual and not physical. We would have to say that the resurrection of Jesus was spiritual and not physical.

In a sense we would have to say that Jesus fulfilling all 330 sone odd prophecies of the Old Testament was spiritual and not physical.

Just throwing out some things for consideration bro.

Brother Blaine

Bear, I made sure I mentioned prophecies concerning the end times, not the over 200 prophecies concerning Jesus.

Bear, you probably have never read Jim Fowler's teaching on Revelation. Would be an eye opener for you.

What Gary said is right.

Julius you can't separate one from the other. If we believe that the OT prophecies of Jesus actually occurred in a space-time context. It would be readonable to assume that prophecies which speak of the end times are also going to occur in a space-time context.

God does not speak to us ethereal realities. But speaks to us in spiritual truth that invades our space-time context.

My thoughts.

Brother Blaine

Bear,

We know that we are living in the only day and time when a person can look toward Jesus Christ in faith and be saved. Would you agree?

This is the dispensation of the Church made up of both Jews and Gentiles where Christ has made us one in Him. Both Jews and Gentiles are being saved in the dispensation of the Church. Not one, but both.

If there was yet another dispensation in which men have yet another chance to be saved, don't you think it would be talked about greatly in the NT?

Yet Jude never mentions it. James and Luke never mention out. And I would look for more than a mention, too. There should have been whole books of the bible written on this new dispensation of another salvation era.

Peter did not write about it and neither did Paul or John.

So, where are the scriptures on the new dispensation of salvation different than this one? It should be a fully developed teaching.

Julius agreed. Brother there is this age that we are living in and in the age to come. It is only in this age that people can be saved through calling out to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is in the age to come that we will reign with Christ.

But my poat was making reference to the prophetic realities that invade our space-time context in this present age. Hope that makes sense bro.

Brother Blaine

by bearmaster on 2016/3/10 22:34:52

Julius agreed. Brother there is this age that we are living in and in the age to come. It is only in this age that people can be saved through calling out to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well amen, bro!!!

It is in the age to come that we will reign with Christ.

Brother, I say this with all gentleness, that we have been raised up with Christ in heavenly places to rule and reign with Him on earth now.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

God has given us everything we need in and through Jesus Christ to rule and reign with Him on earth, now. You do know that He is reigning on earth now through His Church, right? It's not the Pope. We are not gritting our teeth and holding on for dear life hoping we might make it. We have Jesus Christ now, brother and therefore we rule and reign over sin, the flesh and Satan.

2 Peter 1:3-4
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

There are so many more wonderful verses on this subject.

But my point was making reference to the prophetic realities that invade our space-time context in this present age. Hope that makes sense bro.

Brother Blaine

Dear brother, I heartily believe all prophecies in the Word of God pierce through to our space-time dimension. Remember too, that we are spiritual beings fighting spiritual powers and principalities, so there are prophecies that also speak of spiritual realities like the ones above I just talked about.

May the Lord continue to richly bless you, in Him.

Julius,
Sure, we are "seated with Christ in the heavenlies" now spiritually, but not physically. What we have now is a deposit for the greater reality that will be in the age to come. We are to rightly judge matters among ourselves in the Body now, because we will judge Angels! In the world to come. We are to be faithful & rule & reign over the little things now, & how we do so will determine how much more we are entrusted with & rule over...In the age to come. Like so many other subjects in how we view/interpret scripture in previous discussions, I am "occupying" now & working to be found faithful, but this is not ultimately our eternal dwelling place. That's in the age to come. Paul said plainly, "If we have only hope in this world, we are above all people to be pitied", because he knew that it was ultimately about the age to come where we spent our eternity, not where we spend this temporal 70 years or so. We get a taste, a foreshadow, a hint, a deposit now, but the real event that starts the the next & lasting phase of the eternal timeline of God discussed from Genesis to Revelation is the Great & Terrible Day of the Lord where He returns & establishes the New heaven & the New earth & fully instilled His everlasting Kingdom forevermore, does away once & for all with death, sickness, sorrow & sin. Yes, He has already "conquered it" & made the way, but there's an ultimate reality coming when he casts it all into the Lake of Fire forevermore & we are "changed", glorified, etc.,We aren't yet now what we will be. We have a taste as we are "new creatures", but we still have flesh in this current body/state. One day, we will be ultimately glorified and know Him fully, even as we are known. This present age isn't the final fulfillment of the Eternal Kingdom of God. It's the preliminary foretaste & deposit. I am occupying now & fihting the good fight of faith, working while it is day, but looking forward to the day when no man can work & He returns in His fullness bodily to setup His eternal Kingdom! That's not "escapism" from today either, but the Blessed Hope of His return He spoke of, that the apostles & early church wrote of, & that the church down through the centuries longed for.
God Bless,
Jeff

Jeff,

Can you explain what seated with Christ "physically in the heavenlies", means? I have never heard of this concept.

Well, it's similar to how we are "positionally" made righteous once & for all in God's sight, but are instructed to be/do righteously. Or how we are counted as Holy in God's sight positionally through the blood, but are commanded to "BE YE HOLY" & "walk in holiness".

Are you sitting in front of your computer right now, or telling me you're actually physically sitting in heaven? And if Paul "was taken to the third heaven in the body, or in a vision (I do not know)", but was already seated there in the first place, either the scriptures are contradictory/schizophrenic" or must just be properly understood as a whole. God didn't take Paul physically (or visually) where He already was anyways. That doesn't make sense.

Jesus didn't take the apostle John in the vision in Revelation to a heaven where he already physically was before the vision. So, we are seated with Christ in heavenly places for now in this age is a positional spiritual statement that will only come to its final fruition/realization PHYSICALLY in the age to come in our glorified body.

I hope that makes sense cause that's what "the full counsel of the Word of God" teaches. We can under emphasize our positional spiritual reality, but we can also over-emphasize (over spiritualize) everything in scripture too

In other words, "to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord". I am "seated with Christ in Heavenly places" positionally/spiritually. But when I die, & in the age to come, I will be in heavenly places with Him physically (actually, in a glorified Body). That's what I meant

by jeffmar1130 on 2016/3/11 12:39:21

In other words, "to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord". I am "seated with Christ in Heavenly places" positionally/spiritually.

Jeff,

We are seated with Christ in heavenly places spiritually, NOW. If spiritually, then positionally, too. For the Bible speaks of the idea "positional" always being spiritual. I don't think the word "positional", is used in the Bible only the concept.

Maybe I should ask what "positionally" means to you.

But when I die, & in the age to come, I will be in heavenly places with Him physically (actually, in a glorified Body). That's what I meant

You can't be in heavenly places physically after you die. You corrected yourself when you added, "glorified bodies".

In what way is the Church not ruling and reigning with Christ on earth right now?

2 Corinthians 5
6So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him.

Philippians 1
21For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. 24But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.

1 Thessalonians 4
16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

by brothagary on 2016/3/11 18:17:08

The God of this world still has rule and power give him by God,until he is cast into the lake of fire ,,you can still sell soul to satan ,for worldly glory and riches ,,,,that why Sagan is called the God of this world ,,I know all about Jesus seeing a vision of Satan falling as lightning ........ But Paul still said there is the god of this world ,and it ain't call

Gary, are you confessing that the "god of this world" is ruling over you?

Are you in Christ? Is He ruling over Christ?

Ok, that is good, Gary. That is our confession, that we "overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony and loved not their lives unto the death" (Rev 12:11), and we "have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than He that is in the world." (1 John 4:4)

So, you confess that you are ruling and reigning with Christ (because you are in Christ) over sin, the flesh and Satan. This is the life (in Christ) we have been called to NOW, and that is why Jesus was able to command the churches in John's Revelation of Jesus Christ, to repent and overcome the enemy and "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

It's not that we are without sin, but we no longer have that desire (the power of sin has been broken) and we can now choose not to sin where before, we were children of the devil, being without Christ and had no choice, it was our nature, we did not have the Spirit of the Lord joined to our spirit.

Yes, TMK. Agreed! 😉