Are we in the Great Apostatsy

The Great Apostasy
2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[b] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness

The bible talks about the Great Apostasy I would state the church is in needs of hearing the gospel again. Formally working at the christian bookshop I found it hard to find people who just hold to the main doctrines of the christian faith, We have lots of the church into the Word of Faith Movement and the New Apostolic Reformation there is a true church.

2 Chronicles 7:14
if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

The bible also talks about a one world religion and I can see that the Interfaith movement has been rising through certain books, Andrew Whites book Father forgive them shows his interfaith connections.
http://www.uk.upf.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=223:letters-to-the-joint-celebration-of-holy-events-of-the-three-faiths-of-abraham&catid=58:interfaith&Itemid=107
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Father-Forgive-Reflections-peacemaking-Straight-ebook/dp/B00CECYNPU/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1458245115&sr=1-1&keywords=father+forgive+andrew+white

Then there has been the Popes recent statements
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/in-first-video-message-pope-francis-stresses-unity-we-are-all-children-of-god-39381/

We have the ecumenical movement with things like Hope Together
http://ukapologeticslibrary.net/hope-08-hope-together-part-of-the-uks-biggest-apostasy/

What I find is that there is so much apostasy around
http://ukapologeticslibrary.net
http://www.piratechristian.com/fightingforthefaith/

All the major denominations have documents on the Interfaith movement.
http://www.baptist.org.uk/Groups/220648/Inter_Faith_Engagement.aspx
http://nifcon.anglicancommunion.org/
http://news.salvationarmy.org.uk/tags/interfaith
http://www.methodist.org.uk/mission/inter-faith-relations

The Great Prostitute and the Beast
Revelation
17 Then vone of the seven angels who had wthe seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of xthe great prostitute ywho is seated on many waters, 2 zwith whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and awith the wine of whose sexual immorality bthe dwellers on earth have become drunk.” 3 And che carried me away in the Spirit dinto a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on ea scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and git had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman hwas arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned iwith gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand ja golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5 And on her forehead was written a name of kmystery: l"Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” 6 And I saw the woman, drunk mwith the blood of the saints, the blood of nthe martyrs of Jesus.1

When I saw her, I marveled greatly. 7 But the angel said to me, "Why do you marvel? I will tell you othe mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. 8 The beast that you saw pwas, and is not, and qis about to rise from rthe bottomless pit2 and sgo to destruction. And tthe dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in uthe book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because pit was and is not and is to come. 9 vThis calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12 And xthe ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings yfor one hour, together with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”

People are worried about the Government, God always has his true church, his true bride.

What do people think ?

Scripture will always come true. The bible predicts things like this.

The bible in Matthew 24 talks about worldwide persecution in the last days
Matthew 24

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

In this passage it talks about worldwide persecution of Christians, it also talks about apostasy both are two factors in the end times

In church we have been discussion the exact nature of the abomination of desolation , how is the third temple going to be built

To me it breaks my heart as to the apostasy in the church affects the world

1 Peter 4.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

What judgement has the UK and USA got coming for our apostasy

It does seem odd that God would punish(persecute) those who are truly His(the remnant).

Hi Frank- I don't doubt the concept or the scriptures- but it still seems odd. I suppose this is because it goes against what seems just.

Perhaps a better thing to ask is "why" does God choose to persecute those who are closest to him?

Those who are closest to Him would seem to benefit the least, if there is a benefit at all. Persecution of a lukewarm believer may either make him hot, or cause him to abandon completely. But a hot believer is already hot.

See what I mean?

There were many heretics in the early church who died as martyrs.
People who denied doctrines that It was a lecture by RT
Dying as a martyr is not proof of orthodoxy. I know that I could not survive 10 seconds or even 5 seconds of persecution without Jesus.

There have been many decades in Christianity in which there have been revivals in which people have not been persecuted and there have been decades of Christianity in which there has been persecution.

Romans 8:17
and if children, then heirs””heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together

Philippians 3:10
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death

I hate to always seem to be the contrarian, but oh well.

But I don't see a great apostasy, at least not in any of the Christians and churches I know. I don't know if anyone that is a believer who has abandoned or is abandoning the faith. I see the opposite- there is more hunger and desire to grow.

It was my impression that if there will be a great apostasy that a widespread persecution would cause it because people would "chicken out." But you seem to be saying that the apostasy happens and THEN the great persecution.

I agree that America is in a dark place(sinners are getting more brazen and this is now condoned by society- i.e. other sinners) but that is not apostasy.

We have things such as the prosperity gospel, word of faith movement , emergent church movement , just visit your Christian books and compare them to books a century ago.

Why do feel that people in the "emergent church" movement for example are apostate? Because they may not meet in a building with a steeple?

Not everyone in WOF movement is a nonbeliever. I agree they twist things but that does not make a person apostate.

I actually posted a similar question to Deltadom's a while back: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=55052&forum=35

I still don't know the answer. But in a sense, the darkness doesn't matter as much if we are focusing on the Light - and it is in the darkest place where the Light shines the brightest.

And noone here interprets the falling away as the rapture? apo Away from /stasis standing.

The church, the bride church is standing away from the professed church from their place in heaven.

A true Christian can sin but not live in sin. Majority of Christians are they living in sin? They will continue to do so and call themself the church when we are out of here.

First we are taken, then the antichrist revealed.

A toddler believers reponse

For a year, Im being quite serious I never saw a search function. I looked in the beginning for a little black word to say search and only because you SAID there is a search function could I then see it as a blue square and a google blank!

Do majority here believe in Mid or Post? Ill be careful to not make any posts about the rapture then. But Id like to know the consenses.

And does majority believe in the rapture? I know many Christians do not.

by TMK
It does seem odd that God would punish(persecute) those who are truly His(the remnant).

I see it as, it's by default (can't find another word to use) that the remnant is and will be persecuted because we will NOT serve another but only serve the One True God.

And it will be plain as day when say 1000 people are bowing (per se) and one or two keeps standing!! There's no hiding then!!

But that's just my two cents and I hope it was understandable,
Lisa

by awakened
The others who have fallen away during this current period of apostasy will still consider themselves christians when the beast arises, but they will only have the form of godliness, not the real thing. What will become of them I wonder? Will some of them wake up during the great persecution or will it be too late? In other words, how "final" is this delusion that is granted to them because they do not love the truth???

I pray that when the REAL JESUS walks by them, they would choose to receive the love the Truth in Him! There is hope!

God bless,
Lisa

by TMK
I hate to always seem to be the contrarian, but oh well.

by TMK
But I don't see a great apostasy, at least not in any of the Christians and churches I know. I don't know if anyone that is a believer who has abandoned or is abandoning the faith. I see the opposite- there is more hunger and desire to grow.

It was my impression that if there will be a great apostasy that a widespread persecution would cause it because people would "chicken out." But you seem to be saying that the apostasy happens and THEN the great persecution.

I agree that America is in a dark place(sinners are getting more brazen and this is now condoned by society- i.e. other sinners) but that is not apostasy.

Rebellion - an act of violent or open resistance to an established government or ruler.
Apostasy - the abandonment of a previous loyalty or renunciation of a religious faith.

Like TMK, I do not see this going on exponentially today but I believe it will one day.

Let me throw this hat into the ring and then I'm off to work. Could the apostasy or the falling away not "lead" to persecution but actually come from the persecution of the Tribulation? Just wondering.

God bless,
Lisa

I share your anquish, Brother Mark. My prayer for the last several days has been Is 64:1 "Oh that You would rend the heavens! That you would come down!"

My heart's cry is "come down Lord!!" I've been praying for a visitation of the Lord for the last 5 years; a visitation in my own life, my family, and the saints of God. I am praying for the fire of God to come down! Where oh where is the God of Elijah??

He is galvanizing the saints and calling us to even deeper prayer and intercession. I sense this deeply in my spirit.

How come all the early church were expecting the rapture at anytime? And Paul said nay, it has not happened.

How could there be a "falling away" when there had hardly been a "falling in"? The church was so new, that any who walked away to go to Judiasm and temple or maybe Greeks/Romans who dabble and try new things were never really accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior?

Not a flamer or troll I promise you, I have been desperate to learn. And noone in person I could ask about these things...

Sister Linda, may I suggest the Paul by the Holy Spirit, was prophesying about a future time? This seems to be the case since "the man of sin" has not been revealed yet. It totally fits the time we are living in now.
I appreciate your questions - I am still learning too!

Be Blessed,
Renee

Frank I gotta disagree with you. Majority Christians dont believe in a pre or mid trib rapture. That counts a billion Catholics, globally. Dont know how many in America. But all of them believe the same, no pre or mid.

edited to find 70 million Catholics in usa

by appolus
Just wanted to mention Lisa's comment about not having noticed a great falling away! Yikes :) Travel throughout Europe Lisa and see a whole continent that is post Christian. Less than 3% of Brits now attend church, this is a massive falling away and it is mimicked throughout Europe. Mainline denominations in America are in free fall, losing a whole generation of younger folks. Now, there are many mega churches like Rick Warren and Joel Olsteen's. Denomination after denomination are embracing Homosexual marriage and so on. If this is not a rejection of truths once believed and now rejected( the definition of apostacy) then I do not know what is.............

Speaking of "Rick Warren and Joel Olsteen's" type churches, perhaps no one has fallen away, that's just where they started going!! :) Personally, I don't know any died-in-the-wool Godly people who left their churches to start attending these type of churches! (not to say there haven't happened)

Frank, I'm not completely disagreeing with you! I don't think it's as bad as it's going to get in the future.

Also, mainline denominations being in a freefall (I think), is that (one reason), the children aren't filling the pews of their parents for whatever reasons.

And I believe there are still 5000 OR MORE that have not bowed their knees to Baal and want the real Jesus to please stand up because they need Him and will flock to Him when they see Him and that's not falling away. imho.

Love ya brother, in Christ!!!
Lisa

Catholicism believe a lotta goofy things. If I can put it like that.

Yet how many Catholics are there that believe that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and love him so very much? I was one born and raised. And ther are many others.

Will God turn away all those who are saved because they were born and raised into Catholicism? Who got to them first Protestants or Catholics to educate about Jesus.

Biblically isnt it very easy to be saved? To believe? Does God not offer the invitation through Catholics to others?

The Gospel is the Gospel is the Gospel. Simple. Then is added goofy things. Catholic, Word of Faith, other Prostestants, do thy have goofy notions?

The Gospel is right, all the other stuff can be goofy.

I think Ican say we here are trying to live by the Gospel PLUS NOTHING. Yes?

Hey Frank-

I believe you said that in the great apostasy "Christians" would be the main persecutors of true Christians.

What do you think that will look like? In other words, what will they do?

I know that back on the old days the Inquisition was nasty as well as the when the anabaptists were being killed etc. But in those times the church and state almost synonymous.

For example, if someone goes out and shoots up a church that they disagree with they will be arrested. Are you saying that someday people will be able to kill or harm others without reprisal?

Julius,

None of what you say is necessary to confess outloud to be saved. It is a result of salvation and the Holy Spirits move. Unless you think YOU can do all this. What you describe is discipleship.

J says"Well, it only costs you your whole life. Salvation is not a momentary belief, it is a dying to self and sin, and turning away from everything this world offers you to what Christ offers you... Everyday. Every minute of every day. It is turning towards Christ in faithful obedience to His Word. "

Demons do not believe Jesus is their Lord and Savior, hence unredeemable demons.

J says"If only "believing" saved you, then I guess the demons will be saved because they believe, too. You have to understand what the biblical definition of "believing", is. When you do understand that, you will understand that many are lost or fallen away."

by appolus on 2016/3/19 13:24:59

Julias writes...........

"If only "believing" saved you, then I guess the demons will be saved because they believe, too. You have to understand what the biblical definition of "believing", is. When you do understand that, you will understand that many are lost or fallen away."

Amen! Also, the Biblical Jesus is very different than the Catholic Jesus. The biblical definition of being born again is diametrically opposed to the Catholic notion of what it means and what it takes to be saved. To say they are not even in the same ball field would be a geographical understatement. Not on the same planet would be something closer to the truth.............bro Frank

_______________________

As a former RC I have to agree and add my own Amen to this!! The RCC is a false religion just as much as the Mormons! Neither is BIBLICAL and those lost in its clutches need our prayers.

God bless
maryjane

And Blaine, I say that is the move of the Holy Spirit. If it was on our part, what need have we of salvation. Im agreeing with you. But that is a discipleship, is a result of salvation and the action of the Holy Spirit. I can say, I denied myself, I turned from sin, I took the smallest bit of food. But who would that be doing it? The old man? When these denials and turnings and humbleness "occur" it is the action of the Holy Spirit. Then where is the credit?

It is the new man, which is of the renewed redeemed spirit. Post Salvation result. Not consciously chosen before or during confession of fealty to Jesus. It is a result.

I assent to trust. Demons dont trust, Jesus is the enemy and to be distrusted.

I trust Jesus has done all this and will fullfill everything in time.

So yes Truster is better than Believer

David Wilkerson believed that there still existed a true remenant in the catholic church.

Spurgeon, Tozer, Waldvogel etc. gleaned spirtual truths from catholic mystics such as Guyon.

by appolus
HI Lisa, I think we are gonna agree on the remnant part :) And I am gonna go with 7000 having not bowed the knee :)

TMK,

I know you addressed your post to Frank,but is it O.K,if I respond ?

Yes,We know that The Lord is always just.
I believe that when we surrender to The Lord,..percecution is a normal,...is something that hopes to turn us away from God.

I have never forgotten what Art Katz tapes said,in one of his tapes,...

,,.."the lack of percecution in our lives speaks volumes about us,who we are,as,followers of Christ".

I believe when we go through hard things,it is two fold .One,as I said,is to turn us back from following God,..the other is for our good.

It is to work the fruits of The Spirit within us....To be stretched out,and to hold on to God,with long-suffering,kindness,love(His love),...patience etc,etc,
If these things did not come upon us,then where would be the accasion /need for these gifts to operate in us ?

__________________
elizabeth

by Julius21
No one can walk the true Christian walk everyday without the indwelling CHRIST. If YOU are doing it, then you are only participating in religious exercises.