America Has Fallen - Mike Fuselier

How true that all is

The 2016 National Day of Prayer theme is: Wake Up America.

A more accurate name for the theme is: Wake Up Sleeping Virgins!

The world is lost not asleep, the Church is asleep. The word "asleep" means spiritual slumber.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=47900&forum=34

How can America wake up? Those not part of the Church are dead in their sins and must be born-again.

Right, but the church in America has a specific prophetic call. Just like God has done specific things in specific nations. Sure, the need for the Gospel is universal to all nations. But God still addresses the nations. Even in the era of the OT, when God's covenant was with Israel, he sent Jonah (a begrudging prophet) to preach "repent & live or persist & be judged as a nation" to Ninevah. So, no doubt, the church in America needs to wake up spiritually, the lost in America need to wake up to the Gospel. Or to just keep it short (& prevent long explanations of every detail every time), we can just say, "Wake Up America!"

I changed it to Wake up Sleeping Virgins as it should be.

Hi Jeff, would you mind just giving a few NT scriptures for God calling nations to repent instead of individuals. I'm not saying there are none, I am just not aware of them off the top of my head.

Though we in the Church are all part of the one holy nation of God (1 Pet 2:9), Jesus called us all individually.

He said, If any man come after me, not any nation.

And "whosoever will may come", not whatsoever nation.

And, "God commands all people everywhere to repent", not all nations.

God is building His church stone by stone which represents individuals.

We cannot say America has fallen when all the world is already in a fallen state, and God is calling out His people (called out ones), to form his peculiar people, royal priesthood, holy nation.

I hate to answer a question with a question, but nevertheless let me ask you a question:

In the OT, there's no specific covenant all instruction "for all men everywhere to repent" like in the NT. in fact, the only covenants laid out in scripture in the OT, God made to Israel & they alone. Regardless of what you think of Israel in this era, Biblical Fact is that They were the covenantal people of God in the OT.

Again, why then did God call the prophet Jonah to go to Ninevah (the ancient Assyrians who were always heathen & at odds with Israel, God's chosen covenantal People) & preach for the Ninevites to repent? What was the (OT) Biblical precedent/doctrine/instruction that even makes sense if you are only looking at the covenantal language?

Who is God's "holy nation", today?

Peter tells us. I gave the verse.

Who are the, "people called by His Name". What "nation" today is blessed because the "Lord is their God"? His Body!

What is "their land", today? It's not physical acreage.

I guess I'm answering a question with a question, too.

Blessings to you, Jeff and Abide

Sure brother, I don't disagree with you. The Body of Christ is "a holy nation" (he made a nation of a people not a nation). I get it. I agree.

But that doesn't mean God is now "oblivious" to the actual, physical nations of the world. Christ's kingdom is not of this world, but that does not mean that worldly kingdoms do not still exist. A physical nation state on earth is made of the people within it. In America, you have the lost, wicked, vile, satanic who don't know or fear God. You have an abundance of the apostates called by His name, but who serve Him in word only, honoring with their lips, but their heart far from Him. You have the remnant who are not perfect but are a bride making herded ready for His return with oil (some more, some less) in their lamps awaiting the bridegroom's call.

God has spoken that "unless America repents, this nation will see His judgements in power" because there is so much freedom & availability to light here, but we exceed in many ways the wickedness of the other nations of the earth, & we also import & influence the world (through the exportation of a watered down Gospe or even a prosperity/heretical Gospel, through our govt. not only greet allowing/celebrating them but forcing abortion & homosexual acceptance/celebration on the nations of the world & using our military & dollar to do it, through exporting the pornography trade/curse upon the world, through military maneuvering like basically enabling the start up & funding of groups like ISIS to behead/persecute for the sake of overthrowing Assad for the strategizing on behalf of the dollar, oil, & military advantages, etc. etc.

So, when the Lord says through MANY prophets (like David Wilkerson, Leonard Ravenhill, AW Tozer, & a whole list of other true, Godly, prophetic men) that without widespread national repentance (the ungodly turning to God away from their idols, the apostates turning from lies to the truth & the Bride just getting closer to Him) God is going to judge America - I believe Him.

Sometimes either the practical cessationist explains this away because they don't want to hear/heed the prophetic warning from heaven, & sometimes the versed Amil/Preterist has thought all these arguments & things through in this way to explain away Israel's place in the Last Days (the last hours), to the point where God's prophetic Word will not be heard, but only our arguments against it. Not trying to assault anyone or start anything, but I've seen it so many times that I know it when I see it. If God isn't going to judge America because of your doctrines, then God's true prophets are not true just because the scribes don't believe it & can explain them away.

I am fully persuaded that apart from a wide scale national repentance in America, judgements of the likes not seen since WW2 are ahead. And I also believe that the fires which come & singe the sinners will only purify the saints & that many who cling to their idols presently will repent & come to Christ in truth. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but when I'm right (not because "I have to be right", but because I believe the Lord has shown these things ahead of time to His servants, the prophets, just like He did Agabus the famine in Acts), just don't scoff & explain it away with more new doctrines.

I really like to stay close to the Word, Jeff. So, I will list some scriptures in the NT about Jesus and the Apostles talking about nations. We need the perspective of the Word of God, not our own reasoning if it is not in line with God's Word.

I can't list them, now. Got a busy day of travel ahead.

Also, I don't think there is any point in throwing isms into the conversation, because we're just having a conversation about what the Word says. No reason to herd someone into a camp that they don't belong in. I just think something is wrong with that tactic in dialogues. Let's try not to do that and just search the scriptures.

Blessings.

Romans 1:18 says for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. And then we see the consequences of rejecting the Creator over creation.

It would seem to be the Romans 1:18 through 32 could be applied collectively over a nation that rejects the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Meerly an observation.

I can do the same when I have time (Revelation is full of references to nations showing God is not oblivious to them) & you still never answered my very first question:

If in the New Covenant God has ZERO speaking to/dealing with physical nations as a whole, because (in your explanation/view) His covenant & dealing with nations in the OT was only a covenant with Israel as God's chosen people, then why did God send Jonah to preach "repent" to wicked, heathen, non-covenantal Ninevah?

And all the passages in Isaiah concerning Syria, & Egypt, etc.? Do we explain all those away as metaphors not actually bearing any resemblance to the actual nations/kingdoms?

Again, I can quote the same scriptures on "we are a holy nation, a royal priesthood" of believers. I agree. I said that already. But that doesn't mean God is oblivious to physical specific nations. Isaiah is ful of references to several of them. If "historical", why? God only had covenant in the OT with Israel? If they are of the "Prophetic Futurist" interpretation, then why is God pointing out ANY nations at all? So we must then conclude they are only spiritualized metaphors ONLY & God didn't even ever mean actual Egypt, or any other non-Isreal, non-NT Christian Kingdom of God nations? I believe that's an error of over-sporitualizing EVERYTHING in scripture by some scriptures to keep our theological/eschatological contstruct/paradigm standing. And I like to stick close to the Word too, but ALL of it, & I also don't use the Written Word to explain away the prophetic Word. That's what the Cessationist's do. Like John MacArthur saying he's Sola Scriptura, but then having to explain away the definition of prophecy/prophesying to fit his man made doctrine of cessationism. But I digress...
Anyways, that's just my 2 cent observation. 😊
God Bless,
Jeff

Do a study in the NT on the word NATION, and see the Lord's words and the Apostle's words regarding your word study. It will be enlightening.

In Paul's letters we have 3 occurrences.

Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

James thru Jude - 1 occurrence

1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Revelation - 2 occurrences - "men out of every nation". God did not save any nations, just men out of every nation.

Rev_5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Rev_14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Do you see the Apostles calling for national repentance of earthly nations?

No, but you do see the Lord saying "go into all the world, preach the gospel to every CREATURE (not nation).

The balance is that when you preach to every creature (men/women), they become a witness to all the nations.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

There are no old testament prophets commissioned to call an earthly nation set aside for God to repentance.

Everyone has always know that when Jesus said "teach all nations", He means to teach all men that are born-again what the Lord has commanded.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

There are your main verses in the NT. You can't build a doctrine on Matt 28:19. It is enough that God is calling ALL MEN everywhere to repent.

Beyond that, the Church gets involved in politics and says this nation is a Christian nation or that nation is not a Christian nation. There is only one Christian nation and that is the Body of Christ.

That is all I have time for today.

Hey, if God gives you the opportunity to place an ad in USA Today and call all men to repentance that would be wonderful, but He is not interested in setting up a Theocracy on earth over a physical nation.

Let's preach the gospel and forget about politics. They don't go together.

Again, I am not unfamiliar with any of these scriptures (I said that already?). But you still didn't really answer any of my questions or follow my basic logic layout in other previous thread explanations. And I preach the Gospel to every creature regardless of their physical nation & pray for & support the work in "the nations" & politics has NEVER been spoken as "the answer" from me, EVER (so again you reply, don't answer my specific questions & then lump me in with a straw men argument? - Tiring routine really).

And you end with scoffing, sarcastic, (pretty routine from you sadly) hyperbole comments that show you are a "practical cessationist". I have nothing more to say I haven't already said.

God Bless you in your pursuit of truth brother,
In Christ,
Jeff

That's a good question TMK. And the fact is, some things are known & belong specifically only to the Lord. I don't know. I personally think the die has already been cast, & the Lord has already decreed what is coming because the outcry in the streets (and in all public forums including the church buildings, the forums, the pulpits, the workplaces, etc.) went out in America for YEARS (maybe decades) & went MOSTLY totally unheeded & explained away. I do believe many more will come into the kingdom in America in time of judgement than have in recent years in relative peace. But as for numbers, percentages, etc. - I have no idea. The Lord knows. There is the example of Lot & Sodom, but was that a "hard principle" or how God dealt specifically with them? I don't know, but As both Leonard Ravenhill & Billy Graham famously said, "If God doesn't judge America, he owes Sodom & Gomorrah an apology". Sodom's sins have been FAR surpassed in America. I don't have all the answers. I know what the scriptures say. And I know what the Lord has been consistently revealing to his servants the prophets in this land for many years now. I think Islam worldwide is growing at an all time high rate & will continue to. But, more Muslims have converted to Christ in the last decade than the last 1,400 years combined! Chew on that for a moment. So at the same time wickedness is abounding, God's eternal purposes are not thwarted! Again, I don't have every answer. The scribes/teachers often think they do, but the infallible/inerrant text of the Word doesn't detail every detail of God's work with every person, era, nations, etc. through all of history until Christ's return. Blueprints & "seeing in part through a glass dimly" is there, but only the Lord sees it all to the end from the beginning. And I'm ok with that! Lol. 😊 Some people think if they can't understand & explain EVERYTHING, then it must not be true at all. This is a great cloak of pride ("knowledge puffs up..") that exalts ones own self & knowledge above everyone else - including the Lord & His Spirit. I wonder how many scribes stood against Agabus with a million questions, a million texts about "not worrying about tomorrow", etc.? Fact is, there could be a "Biblical text passage case" made against him (or anything if the Logos is not empowered by the Rhema). Doctrines are provable from the Word. Modern Prophecies are not really. Don't get me wrong here - they can be tested to not be "unBiblical", but you can't "prove" everything from verses alone. This is why it's more comfortable for intellectual practical Cessationist's to reinterpret & exlplain away the prophetic gifts altogether. It's more comfortable for them. But if Agabus' prophetic word wasn't heard, the saints in Jerusalem would have starved to death & died! For pride & intellectual arguments where the Spirit is rejected & done so in the vein of using the scriptures as a defense to do so. Tragic.

" doom and gloom prophecies regarding the USA "

David Wilkerson was frequently criticized by that phrase.Sad that this phrase is still being used in conjunction with his name............bro Frank

Todd,

You should have the courage to stand behind the phrases that you use. Unless you are being deliberately obtuse, let us agree to disagree that David Wilkerson nor the Lord indulged in doom and gloom. There was nothing despairing or pessimistic about our Lord Jesus and to attach that phrase to His teachings just leaves a bad taste Todd. ..............bro Frank

Alternative forms
doom-and-gloom

Adjective
doom and gloom ”Ž(not comparable)
(idiomatic) Feeling, or acting in a manner consistent with, pessimism and despair.

His sister was all doom and gloom after she lost the part.

Synonyms

gloom and doom

Noun

doom and gloom

(idiomatic) Something considered indicative of feelings of pessimism and despair.

The economic forecast contained the usual doom and gloom.

Synonyms

gloom and doom

MJ, writes...........

"I have never thought of Revelations, the letter written to the saints as doom and gloom. In fact "if" one is following JESUS, daily living unto HIM this letter is filled with promise and hope."

It is only doom and gloom sister depending upon what prism you are looking through and living. This phrase is very telling and was consistently used by David Wilkersons detractors over the years. It is certainly a derogatory phrase and then to attach it to Jesus, well that just boggles my mind, very sad. The message of Jesus is glorious, even in the darkest dungeon, as Paul displayed..........bro Frank

The book of Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ and depicts Him as Victor over Satan and his counterfeit Christ's and Christianity. It is a book of victory for those in Christ and is applicable for every saint that ever lived because as John said, it is the Revelation of Christ.

It is also doom and gloom for the Evil One.

No doom and gloom ever for blood bought saints. We are more than overcomers through Him who loved us.

Julias writes........

'It is a book of victory for those in Christ and is applicable for every saint that ever lived because as John said, it is the Revelation of Christ. It is also doom and gloom for the Evil One. No doom and gloom ever for blood bought saints. We are more than overcomers through Him who loved us."

Amen!..............bro Frank

AMEN!! 😉🙏🏻☝💪🏻

I thought this was an excellent article. The author is not speaking about the church, but about the nation of America and its wonderful that he loves and cares about the people of this great country. Paul called on believers to pray for national leaders and all men, which for us and the author...would include the USA. Paul would be scratching his head however if he was to read some of the comments here that are nit-picky and simply serve to muddle even this, the most simple of all posts on this forum. Sigh.

"First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior."

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (1Co 1:18-20)

When Jesus told Peter what must happen he cried never! We know that this was not the Spirit of God. What the world would see as doom and gloom, the death of Jesus on the cross, is of course, the greatest victory of all time. The same spirit prevails today that would run from what is to come, what must come. The scoffers will scoff and the wise will ridicule but to those who are saved we know it is the power of God and the glorious revelation of Jesus. For it ends with every knee bowing and every tongue confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father...........bro Frank

Totally agree with a hearty Amen Mike, Mark, Frank, etc.! 😊