Indiana State Trooper Fired.......

The above title should not surprise you. We have an Indiana State Trooper who has been fired. And he is being taken to court. He has not been fired or taken to court because of excessive police brutality. Nor has he taken any money for a bribe. He has not been doing drugs. He has not abused those he's taken into custody.

So why has he been fired? And why is he being taken to court? Google story Indiana State Trooper fired....... he has been fired for sharing Jesus Christ with those he pulls over for traffic violations.

By the way this is not God Is Not Dead Part 2. But this is the real thing.

Brother Blaine

Set your search protocol for Indiana State Trooper fired for preaching Jesus. The story will come up on different news sites.

"Oh Bear there you go again! Seeing imaginary persecution everywhere!

And this officer had the gall to share about Christ, to hand out a track, & even put one of his stops on a prayer list at his local baptist church congregation where he attends. Man, he brought it on himself by not just doing his job & obeying the authority of the land to keep his mouth shut about God during working hours (like what the Nazi's told Christians about obeying authority to try to get them to keep their mouth's shut & not to help anyone or live out their faith in real action).

These type radical extreme lawbreakers bring it on themselves. It's not real persecution. Don't you know anything Bear?"

Sorry, I could just hear the unspoken comments of some & thought I'd go ahead & put them out there & get it out of the way.

May God bless this man for being willing to be a fool for the sake of Christ & the Gospel! I got threatened & found out later that I almost could have lost my job a couple times for similar things (1 for handing out tracks - and I was in sales paid for my numbers, not an hourly or something, & 1x for sending out an email after I had enough of the person worship after the death of Pope John Paul 2 exposing the Unbiblical lies of the RCC. That's when I found out my boss, his wife, my coworker, & the owne of the company were all Roman Catholics - I would have never known as they all just acted, spoke & carried on like pagan heathens to me). But the Lord kept me. May God Bless Him in this beyond anything he could ask, think or imagine.

Actually Jeff I could hear some of the comments coming in my spirit as I was posting this. Some would say the officer is not suffering for his faith in Christ. But he is simply getting what he deserved because he did not follow the procedures of keeping his religion and job separate.

But then I've heard that said about Ken Miller and Dietrich Bonhoeffer. If they had simply obeyed man they would then they would not have suffered.

Simply my thoughts bro.

Maybe this should be told to our brothers and sisters in the Middle East and other parts of the world. If they keep quiet about their faith in Jesus they won't suffer persecution.

Okay it's a beautiful spring day. Don't won't to get cynical. Out for a walk. :)

God bless everyone. :-)

Brother Blaine

Yeeup. Thought you would say that bro.:) Poor guy should not have shared about Jesus. He would stil be employed.

If Bonhiffer had kept silent about the Jews. Well he would have lived probabky to a ripe old age. If Ken Miller had not gotten involved with Lisa Milker's case. He would not be in Federal prison. If those four translators had not been involved in translating the scriptures in the vernacular of a people in a restricted nation. They would still be alive.

Yeeup. They say the safe route is always the best. Don't say anything about Jesus and you will be safe. Yeeup.

And I said I did not want to be cynical.

TMK,
But starting from & coming from that Classic case of "constitutional republic" (as if that really exists in its original form anymore anyways) Americanism thinking first, & Christian, Biblical, Doctrinal, Church History thinking second is actually part of the issue for believers IMHO.

Regardless of how anything makes you feel or not feel, this by definition is persecution. Period. Let's look at the dictionary definition of the word persecution:

"per·se·cu·tion
ˌpərsəˈkyo͞oSH(ə)n/
noun
hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs.
"her family fled religious persecution"
synonyms:\toppression, victimization, maltreatment, ill-treatment, mistreatment, abuse, ill-usage, discrimination, tyranny; More
persistent annoyance or harassment.
"his persecution at the hands of other students"

I know in Greek the word used in the NT has one of its basic tenants the idea of "pressure applied". I'm not saying losing your job for witnessing on the job is the same as being beheaded for refusing to deny Christ. But they both fall under the umbrella of persecution. I gotta go & get some things today. May God bless you richly today as you seek & serve Him!

Just my thoughts/2-cents,
God Bless,
Jeff

TMK,
So what happens if all of society says you can't share your faith ever by law, at the risk of loss of job, loss of home, etc. (bear with me, go with me for a minute to the eventual obvious end of your thinking/scenario)? So if you aren't allowed to share Christ on your job, & then do, and you get fired its not persecution? If we just look at church history, the historical & current church world around now, how the Bible & dictionary define the word persecution, etc.,again I think that you have an "America-Centric" shaped view/terminology/rules, not necessarily heaven's (or Webster's, Strong's, etc.) view/definition. I think to a degree there is the "frog in hot water" effect that has been so slowly implemented & upped step by step for so long we can't call anything persecution but your exact scenario. The funny thing is that the devil is a sly/crafty fellow & as long as you just think it's lawful & ok to be quiet on his terms, he's ok. Your view doesn't hold up if you take it all to its logical ends, figure that our society will "step by step", "progressively" grow more hostile to the (true) Gospel message, etc. I'm not trying to hyper-sensationalize it either. Just not trying to minimize & explain it away with human logic & reasoning (& "Modern American" colored lenses on either).
God Bless,
Jeff

Okay let me ask a question. Not trying to be cynical. :-). In restricted Nations evangelism is forbidden. So if believers are sharing their faith in Christ and they are imprisoned, are they being persecuted?

After all, in a restricted nation, say a communist or Islamic nation, evangelism is forbidden. It is the law of the land. So if I follow the reasoning that Todd is laying out in this thread. Those believers in restricted nations that are sharing their faith in violation of the law are not being persecuted for their faith. There is simply suffering the consequences of disobeying the law.

Is that what I'm hearing?

Respectfully asked with curiosity.

Good verse bro.

TMK is spot on about this. This trooper would have been fired for proselytizing others into Islam or Judaism, so on that count it should not be cast as persecution against christians.

Jesus never told us to proselytize everyone, everywhere at every time. If He did then everyone on this forum is living each and every day in total disobedience to Christ. He did tell us to be as wise as serpents, to be aware of our surroundings and to live carefully as lambs among wolves.

But if the Holy Spirit directs us to do any of these things then we should obey Him and suffer the consequences.

When I was a youngster I worked for the County as a welfare assessor. I had to interview people to see if they qualified for monetary assistance. I was not allowed to proselytize but in my zeal I did it anyway:-) The people that I saw were very poor and I had no trouble getting them to "sign up" to become christians as they awaited my decision about giving them government money.

Eventually my boss had enough and fired me. I considered that I had taken the risk and was able to share Christ with many people. I never considered my dismissal as persecution...that would have been ludicrous even back then when I was a wet behind the ears 22 year old:-)

Brother, I just wonder if you enjoy creating these kinds of posts and all the dust they stir up? Are you bored or something lol.

Not trying to be ugly TMK, but I think sadly many don't "know it when it's right in front of them". If you can't share Christ at work without getting fired (& you can discuss other things), that by definition is persecution. When I was a kid, I would ask my dad where something was, if it was right in front of me but I didn't see it he would laugh & say, "boy, if it was a snake it would've already bit you". I think that's applicable here. Sorry, I just really do.
Blessings,
Jeff

Again, every appeal to "logic" here is through the eyes of modern day American law", not the Word of God. Not putting condemnation on those who don't preach to everyone they come across (don't mix issues here, that wasn't the point of the OP), but to say that if a man is fired for sharing Christ, that isn't persecution (when this is supposed to be supposedly be "a free country" - now wrongly freedom "from" religion, rather than freedom "of" religion") is what is "ludicrous" frankly.

Was he sharing Christ on a regular basis during traffic stops? Was it taking extra time during his shift? Or is this a one time mistake during working hours?

Uh bro you think I am creating a thread to stir up dust??? Have you taken a look at the threads regarding Israel???

This one is pretty tame. But if anything I'm trying to provoke some discussion as to the reality of the times we're living in.

I think there are some who believe that persecution is still a myth. Perhaps somewhere in the mind of a Tim Lahaye novel. I think that there are some who believe that is not going to happen here.

Anyway simply my thoughts.

"Or is this a one time mistake during working hours?"

A mistake? Really? In a large portion of the American church We talk theological theoreticals & doctrines, but have a tainted doxology of how those theological implications "hash out". Tainted with culture.

Sharing the Gospel is NEVER a mistake. If he would have seen that the person stopped had a NC basketball jersey & asked them if they saw how the NCAA game ended (or the super bowl) would that be "a mistake"? Would we be so worried about "our tax dollars that pay them"? Would they be getting fired or threatened with lawsuits?

Frog in hot water just loves a good warm bath, eh?

Bro to the best of my ability I have not yelled at anybody. You must be thinking of the Israel threads. That is a problem in a forum like this. You cannot see the person's face behind a keyboard. But then you probably wouldn't want to see my bearded face :)

But what the state trooper in Indiana faced is what Ken Miller faced. They both knew the consequences of their actions. The question that is being discussed or debated, is did their actions constitute them being persecuted for their faith in Christ?

And frankly, as a believer first & American second, I WISH the officer would let me go & then be open to discussing Islam & the Gospel. I'm more concerned with the openness/opportunity to share & discuss eternal issues than with a "are my American tax dollars being respected every 5 minutes". I bet cops sit & browse the net, text, etc. on duty ALL THE TIME. But my primary concern is the Gospel, not being their hall monitor civil watchdog

Brothers I go back to my original question I asked. In countries that are hostile to Christianity there are laws in place that prohibit evangelism. If one evangelizes in these countries then they are disobeying the law. They could face imprisonment or perhaps even martyrdom.

Now what I'm hearing in this thread is that those that evangelize in such countries are not being persecuted for their faith. But they are simply incurring the consequences of disobeying the law in that nation.

I mean that is the logic that would have to be followed out regarding the state trooper. No doubt there are protocols in place that prohibited him from sharing his faith at work. To say that he went on and share his faith answer for the consequences thereof does not incur persecution. But simply the consequences of disobeying his superiors.

Then if we take that logic. In restricted nations where it is illegal to evangelize. We would have to say that believers that disobey the law and evangelize are not being persecuted. But simply suffering the consequences of disobeying the law.

At least that is how I follow the logic of Todd and perhaps others in this thread.

My thoughts

The issue is not about whether it is right or wrong to share the gospel but - is it appropriate while you are under the authority of your employer.

I am a businessman and I do not want my employees to proselytize our customers. We run our company to sell product and services and our customers expect to be treated with respect and that includes not forcing them to listen to a gospel presentation when they call in to place an order.

Does that mean I am persecuting my employees by asking them to not turn our company into an evangelistic ministry?

I would absolutely in a heart beat fire anyone who shared the gospel with our customers AFTER I made it clear to them to stop and GAVE them several warnings to as well.

By the standards of some on this site, I am an evil, persecutor of christians apparently lol.

Mark,
I wouldn't go that far, but I would definitely say you & I see it very differently. I couldn't/wouldn't fire someone for sharing Christ. Just wouldn't do it. PC or not. "Helped my business or lost an account" or not. Just don't want to stand before the Lord & explain how His Gospel didn't fit into my American civil business model, so I had to fire people for being unashamed of Him & His Gospel. No way Jose. Not me. I have done it more than once, been threatened with my job more than once, etc.

I guess in some Americans eyes I'm just a "rebellious lawbreaker". Lol.

Thankfully, the Lord has always made me the most successful & growing salesmen among my peers, so they didn't want to let me go even if my Gospel stance was "annoying" to the American Enterprise.

I have nothing else to add to this thread honestly.
God Bless,
Jeff

Jeff,
I don't know if you are not able to understand the actual intent of my writings or you don't want to lol? :-)

I would never fire someone because I was offended by their sharing the gospel.

They would be fired for INSUBORDINATION. And only insubordination. I was very, very clear about this.

There is nothing complicated about this matter in the slightest.

Anyway, I shall leave you guys to beat yet another dead horse to death lol.

Wow Jasmine...yes and amen...very thoughtful insights.

Lets see though. 34 posts in 11 years puts you at 3 posts a year...one every 4 months:-(

I hope you will come back more often and continue to add your 2 cents to this forum. I fear that most people however are like you and hold back while a small core of lets say "passionate" people take care of most of the discussion on this site.

I think the forum would be a much better place if a LOT more people were involved, but I am not sure how that can be accomplished.

God bless you sister...keep posting, you have a lot to offer this community!

It is interesting that current jailed Iranian christians could go free if they would promise not to share their faith with others. It really comes down to are we going to fit in with society and not share the truth of the Gospel.

I remember I was able to share many times the Gospel with co-workers when I was in secular work and sometimes they would ask to speak to me at length after work. To keep silent all the time is not God's will. The apostle Paul spoke words, Jesus spoke, believers through history spoke words of truth. In North America now we must speak and make the Gospel of God's Son clear.

I believe if all of us shared the gospel more in words it would offend people and we would suffer problems. I remember being threatened many times to be punched when sharing God's love with others. One time I was "shoved" and it was a very interesting experience, on my way back I leaped with joy a few times and realized I was able to suffer for the Gospel as our Lord said. It hurt but there was a comfort and joy of God in it.

To be obnoxious or put undue pressure on people and suffering the consequences is not persecution but sometimes a christians foolishness in not being wise in sharing. But when it comes to it the Gospel will offend.

"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." - Matthew 5:11-12

"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you." - John 15:18

"And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake." - Luke 21:17

At least the trooper was sharing Jesus. Whether he should have been doing it in the context of his job or not can be debated. But at least he was sharing Jesus.

But then before we judge the trooper. How many of us actively share Jesus???

I hope noone here is judging this trooper...I didn't get any impression that anyone was. I think sharing our faith to our co-workers goes without saying, we should do it as the Lord leads us and I bet this trooper did that all the time and never had any issues. The issue comes when we proselytize the customers or in this case, the people who are under the authority of us as public servants.

1 Peter 2:18-20

Servants (employees), be subject to your masters (employers) with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Acts 4:14-17

Now as the observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus. And seeing the man who had been healed standing with them and they had nothing to say in reply. But when they had ordered them to leave the Council, they begin to confer with one another, saying, "What shall we do with these men? For the fact that a noteworthy miracle has taken place through them is apparent to all who live in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. BUT SO THAT IT WILL NOT SPEAD ANY FURTHER AMONG THE PEOPLE, LET US WARN THEM TO SPEAK NO LONGER TO ANY MAN IN THIS NAME."

Acts 4:18-20

And when they had summoned them they commanded them NOT TO SPEAK OR TEACH AT ALL IN THE NAME OF JESUS. But Peter and John answered and said to them, "WHETHER IT IS RIGHT IN THE SIGHT OF GOD TO GIVE HEED TO YOU RATHER THAN GOD YOU BE THE JUDGE; FOR WE CANNOT STOP SPEAKING WHAT WE GAVE SEEN AND HEARD."

CAPS are for emphasis only.......

Peter and John you must keep quiet. You mustn't go out and speak about this preacher Jesus. Follow Him in your heart but respect the religious authority of this nation. Do not be dissentious. Do not rock the boat. You know what happened when Jesus went against the established authority. He was crucified and hung on a cross. Please do not follow in that path.

Go to the synagogue. Live out the righteousness of Moses in the law. If you must speak of Jesus do it quietly. Do not do it when you are attending the synagogue. Do not do it when you are speaking in the temple. Do not resist the religious authority that are appointed by God over you. For Judaism is the religion of Israel. To speak of this rabbi Jesus is simply not good nor is it correct. Don't do it publicly. Keep your faith in Jesus in your own home. But don't bring it into the public square. Don't mention His name. For to do so will evoke controversy.

I imagine if the apostles had been living in 2016 the above would be the advice that would be given to them in this politically correct environment. And this is the bigger picture. If we keep silent about the name of Jesus we are safe. Indeed had the apostles kept silent about the Name of Jesus.They would not have died a martyr's death. But then some in this forum will say they were not persecuted for their faith. They were not persecuted for their faith because they were preaching Jesus. When they should not have been preaching Jesus against the religious authorities command. Had they kept silent. They would have been safe.

Indeed if the church for the last 2,000 years have kept quiet about Jesus. There would be no persecuted church. If the saints in North Korea and Somalia keep quiet about Jesus. They would be safe. In restricted nations where evangelism is forbidden by law if You don't preach Jesus you are safe.

Some would say that the persecuted church invites persecution up on them self. Okay let me stand corrected. That preaching the gospel in a hostile environment is not considered persecution. Some would reason that if Christians are preaching the gospel in areas where it is illegal to preach the gospel. They would say that the Christians have invited trouble upon themselves. In my discussions with Christians about the persecuted church I have heard this reasoning. Indeed they would say they should keep quiet about Jesus and simply live it out and not say anything. And they would be safe. After all Romans 13 says we must obey the governing authorities. Obey the governing authorities and do not preach Jesus and you will be safe. Disobey the governing authorities and preach Jesus and you will incur the consequences upon yourself. Oh and by the way do not say that this is persecution. You are simply in inviting trouble on yourself because you are disobeying the governing authorities if you evangelize. Simply, persecuted church, obey your governing and religious authorities and not preach Jesus and you will not be persecuted. Keep him in secret. Don't evangelize and preach Jesus in the public Arena. Be safe.

Acts 5:17-21

But the high priest rose up, along with all his associates (that is the set of the Sadducees), and they were filled with jealousy. They laid hands on the apostles and put them in a public jail. But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the gates of the prison and taking them out he said, "GO AND SPEAK TO THE PEOPLE IN THE TEMPLE THE WHOLE NESSSGE OF THIS LIFE."
Upon hearing this they entered into the temple about daybreak and begin to teach.

Acts 5:27-32

When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them, saying, "We gave you strict orders NOT TO CONTINUE TEACHING IN THIS NAME and yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man's blood upon us."

Then Peter and the apostles answered, "WE MUST OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted at His right hand as a Prince and a Saviour to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are Witnesses of these things, and so is the holy spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.

CAPS are for emphasis only.......

Brothers and sisters had the apostles kept quiet they would have been safe. However they had a revelation from an angel. The angel of the Lord told him to go and preach the message of this life. They were not to preach this message. he message of Christ, at a safe distance from the temple. They were the preach the message in the temple itself where they would surely invite the erath of the religious authorities. But the apostles were under a Heavenly command to go and preach the life of Jesus.

For us has the command of the Great Commission, the command to preach the gospel to all creation, been revoked? Are we not to preach the gospel, to preach Jesus, even in hostile areas that are opposed to the gospel.

Yes we can do the safe thing. We can live out our lives quietly in the hope that others will see us being Salt and Light. We can heed the words of st. Francis that say preach the gospel. Use words only when necessary. For sure our walk must match our talk. But there are times when we will have to talk of Jesus. And that may very well bring the consequences of termination of employment. Perhaps bring the consequences of termination of life.

Brothers and sisters 30 years ago this officer sharing his faith with those whom he ticketed, even with those he would arrest, would have been commended. It would have been commended even by the non-believers 30 or 40 years ago. But we are living it up in a politically correct environment where to speak the name of Jesus will incur the displeasure of the powers-that-be. Be they in the government or religious sector.

Thirty or forty years ago a thread like this would have been ludicrous. It would have been understood that we were under a command to preach the gospel. But the politically correct environment of our day brings disdain upon those who take a stand for righteousness and preach Jesus. Even disdain from other Christians. After all people like Ken Miller and this trooper in Indiana are an embarrassment to the established church. For they are not obeying the politically correct government.

There will come a time, and indeed is already here, when to speak the name of Christ will be illegal. Indeed in the workplace and even in the public sector it is frowned on. Even considered illegal to speak the name of Christ. To do so will bring consequences. But then to speak the name of Christ in the public sector is not considered persecution if the consequences are adverse. Somehow my readings of church history have been skewed on this.

Forty years ago when I was in university pursuing a history degree. We could speak the name of Christ in the classroom. We could write about Jesus. The professor would have disagreed. There would have been spirited debate. But I would not have been dismussed from my degree program because I wrote about Jesus. This is not the case with students that are in secular University. There have been numerous cases where students have been dismissed from their degree programs because they stood for the Lord Jesus Christ. But indeed had they kept silent about Christ they would have been safe and gotten their degree.

Yesterday I posted and remembered the martyrdom of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Had Bonhoeffer been silent about his faith convictions. He would have lived a safe life. Indeed he could have stayed in America and have pursued the American dream of being a great intellectual. But Bonhoeffer was not silent. I will simply in this post which I know it's lengthy with his quote...

Silence in the face of evil is evil itself. God will not hold as Guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.

Each of us will have to decide in our hearts when are we going to speak out. When are we going to speak out about Jesus and His truth. Human reasoning will say be silent Don't rock the boat. Live out your faith quietly and in private.

But I believe God compels us to speak out. He compels us and commands us to go and preach the gospel to all creation. Even at the expense of our own lives. This is what our brothers and sisters are doing in foreign lands. This is what we must do. Does God call us to do the safe thing. Or does God call us to recklessly abandon oirselvrs as unto him. And to go preach Jesus?

Btothets and siaters you be the judge.

My thoughts.

Blaine Scogin

Reedited for grammatical correction.

Ok Bear,
I said I wasn't going to post for awhile, but after reading your last post here I gotta say something.....Amen brother!!

Blaine, because you are "so focused" on this one issue, persecution, I can tell you that people tend to discount (& even discredit or totally ignore) your posts on the subject. Just telling you the truth (we actually had this conversation among brethren in our fellowship sitting at the park while the kids played). Your so "burdened", so "focused", etc. on our persecuted brethren that people tend to highly take your posts on the subject with a gain of salt. But brother, if/when you're right , you're right. Doesn't mean you're always right, but none of us are. But brother, on this, you are right, you are on to something, you used the scriptures to back it, not American Cultural Business Enterprise PC Logic, but scripture & the mind, heart, & will of the Father. As well as church history.

I'll say it once again: many of us have been a frog in such warm (getting warmer & now hot) water on the stove for so long in this culture that's often more ingrained in our thinking than the Word of God (Romans 12:2 would be good to review here). If it comes down to it, "Let God be true, and every man a liar"!!! & "should we obey men rather than God?" I know I know, that sounds so foolish to much more intelligent & well thought out American business men, but if one is a fool, let him be a fool for Christ.

This reminds me of a story I heard once: the head of an American mission board went to the airport & picked up a leader in the Chinese underground church (back when it was red hot & the persecution was the most intense, but equally met with revival spreading like wildfire). The Chinese leader asked the American how witnessing Christ & his evangelism was going in his secular workplace job. The American said, "oh no, you see, we can't do that here in America. We could lose our job." The Chinese underground leader began crying. As the tears ran down his face he said, "I do not mean to judge you or be critical, but we in China lose not only our jobs for evangelizing our coworkers, but often can lose our homes, our every possession, & even our very lives. Why would you fear losing your job here in America where you can just go get another job anyways?

"The last will be first & the first last".

Romans 12:2
"Do not be conformed any longer to the pattern of this world, but rather be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good & acceptable & perfect."

God Bless you Bro,
Jeff

Not saying they are "equivalent" (equals). Just saying if he can ask her about her NC basketball jersey but can't ask her about Jesus, I believe something is wrong. And she's not under arrest in the normal flow of a traffic stop until he asks her to place her hands behind her back & says "you are under arrest". Also, unless there's video/audio, we don't know the nature of the full conversation in the stop. If she was crying, upset, telling him her life was a mess, or just talking small talk, should he just "stick to the nature of the stop" as a believer or share Christ? And if he is then punished (& sued, of course no lawyer just loves to sue just because theirs a potential big name case & big money involved, right? Tongue in cheek as one who worked for a lawyer, was pre-law & went through Paralegal law training & then worked with a famous ex-DA mafia criminal defense lawyer who is in now in Federal Prison for involvement with the mob & cartels on my own trial defense). So is that not persecution.

As far as cops wanting to talk Islam vs Christ. Honestly, I wish they would. Opprrtunity for me to witness boldly. As far as school, they do it all the time for Islam & it's protected but mention Jesus & a bomb goes off (that's not persecution either I guess). One more reason to do whatever sacrifices are necessary to homeschool your kids IMHO (and I know that's not always possible with a single mom, but more "possible" than many think it is if you're willing to sacrifice for it).

Anyways, I am not comparing this cop witnessing on duty with a Syrian Christian being beheaded by ISIS, but I believe they are both forms of persecution by definition. Anyone remember the prophetic word Paul Washer shared that's here on SI a few years ago? He says, "you need to get it out of your mind that Christian's are persecuted for their sincere Christian Faith. That is the case (or root cause), but that's not the story heard & told publicly. They are persecuted as enemies of the state, as those who pervert children, as those who have fallen for a rouse & who have nothing to contribute to society...."

This is just a merry go round at this point, so I'm out, but this is a (although specific, mild, etc.) form of persecution to get Christians to shut their mouths in the public sphere. People even mock that the Christian bakers in Oregon are hailed as persecuted. But they lost their business, are in HUGE DEBT, may lose their home, etc. But they didn't get beheaded or hung, so it can't be called persecution. Besides, those people went to get a cake, not a sermon, right? They just need to perform their job and shut up, eh?

Anyways, thanks for the post Blaine. May we all get fired for insubordination some day & suffer with Christ rather than compromise & buy into the spirit of the age. If someone wants to share Jesus like a fool, then those are the "fools" I want to be in a foxhole with. Not the wise in the ways of this world. Explain it however you want to, I would never do anything but defend a brother following his heart and preaching the Gospel. I'll be curious if it goes to court, exactly this all actually transpired in reality.

God Bless,
Jeff

by dolfan on 2016/4/10 11:54:41

If someone is stopped by an officer they are by definition under arrest. You cannot just leave at your own behest unless you want additional charges.

While under arrest, an officer starts asking you questions. Other than your identity and your license, registration and proof of insurance, such questions may amount to custodial interrogation.

Custodial interrogation entitles me to being warned about my rights to remain silent, and that anything I say may be used against me. Suppose you are stopped and the questions move into your belief and faith in Jesus. What is the right answer? Do I tell the officer I am a Christian in hopes of release? Do I need to produce "my papers" (show him my well worn bible or my YouVersion app) to demonstrate my bona fides? Am I risking treatment based on my responses to his inquiries? How will I know he is NOT basing his treatment of me on my willingness to listen or to identify as a Christian?

These are the first and fourth amendment concerns of anyone stopped by him, maybe oversimplified.

But, he has some, too. The point is made here that evangelizing is beyond the scope of his job. So are canned food drives and toys for tots at Christmas time, but the officers are often enlisted to participate. Officers are judged by their colleagues and supervisors on their willingness to jump in on these things. It is not enough to simply say, "evangelizing is not his job" when policing powers routinely engage in public relations that are unrelated to their purpose of imposing and enforcing laws. He is being singled out for the content of his communication.

His problem is that, in the particular context of police powers, his communication is --- legally speaking --- very likely a form of oppression of its own.

May I give an analogy outside of police powers? Teachers. (Yes, GND2). I do NOT want any teacher proselytizing my child at school, even if it is Christian evangelism. Why? Because, my child should be free to think and perform as a student free of any pressure to hold to any viewpoint. Kids DO view teacher assessments of them as pressure to conform, and the truth is teachers pressure students to conform to their peculiar community moral standards. For example, kids who wear certain cosmetics or clothing styles are treated with disrespect or disdain or open scolding for it by teachers. There is a pressure to conform to the teachers' own self formed norms for what a youngster ought to be and how they should act. Teachers whose students are poorer or whse families cannot afford the vehicles they themselves drive or who cannot vacation where the teachers do are tracked over into being afterthoughts in the classroom. POINT being that in the context of a power based relationship where the State agent of that power must do his or her job in a way that is compulsory (police compel you to stop so you do; laws compel you to go to school and follow their rules, so you go and do), it is NEVER a free will relationship and every person in such jobs owes a special duty (never itself obeyed, BTW, particularly in our police-worship and teacher-worship culture)) to remove himself or herself personally from the role and to simply do the job.

I do not trust any agent of the state with the precious jewel of God's Word and bringing it to bear in the lives of people, and especially not during their job duties.

The Indiana trooper is, I hope, truly sincere for Jesus. His firing is a favor to him by the Lord who loves him. He is now free to live out God's call to all of His children to evangelize. He should, I hope, seek employment outside of law enforcement or any other line of work where he is the agent of the strong arm of the State.

Excellent post! Best one I have read so far.

By definition the motorist is a captive audience and probably very nervous and even scared. What kind of Christian is this policeman? How could the motorist know? Could the motorist think that things will go worse for them if they don't answer favorably? This could border on coercion and manipulation and how could the policeman be satisfied with the motorists answers knowing the full force of the law is behind him? How would he know the motorist is answering truthfully?

I know policeman that go and visit a perp off-duty to follow up on them and share the gospel, but it is on their own time.

I think the discussion on this thread points to one of the major differences between early and modern Christianity. For the first three hundred years, for the most part, Christians refused to be involved in positions whereby judicial rulings had to be made. Their loyalty and complete devotion to Jesus prohibited them from taking a whole range of positions including the military and so on. After Constantine, and the marriage so to speak, of state and church, everything changes, at least for the catholics, small c at that time.

So where does that leave us today? Should we take any job that prohibits us to share as we feel led of the Lord? As these restrictions increase and they are, how then shall we live. For much of society, Christianity has already been silenced. Now with social media, whatever you write or share may possibly come back and haunt you at least as far as employment goes. Decisions, decisions folks. The priorities that we set in life shapes us and our children. There will be more and more of a cost moving forward to be a Christian in the west. My sympathies are with the policeman.

If more people spoke about Jesus in public then perhaps the 92% number of professing Christians who have never saw a single person come to Jesus through their personal sharing would go down. The policeman may have lost his job but if one person is saved because of his sharing, then this will carry an eternal weight of glory........bro Frank

This is such a storm in a teacup...has anyone here actually read the full account of what he did, both in 2014 and this time around? It wasn't that he was preaching the gospel as some are trying to make out here, it was that he was "proselytizing". He asked if the lady attended a church then gave her information about his church...then shared her address with others from his church who then showed up on her doorstep to proselytize again.

That's what this is really about and why the lady was so offended, and he was told to not do it again, but did it anyway.

Cut and dried, nothing evil going on here, no persecution...just a zealous Christian who didn't want to follow the rules of his job and got fired in the process.

It's time to move on people :-)

Is it a violation of privacy to give someone's address out without permission from the subject? He may have broken the law and thus being punished for doing that and not so much sharing the gospel. I don't think you can use government equipment/property to find someone's address and then give it out to strangers.

Imagine if you will a judge sentences a young man to death for murder. The judge carries out the sentence. He sets a sentencing date in which the young man will be executed for his crime. Then the judge speaks to the young man compassionately about his soul and his need to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. The judge says though the young man has been found guilty in the eyes of the state. In the eyes of God he can be found not guilty if only he will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Through Jesus he will receive forgiveness.

In the politically correct climate of our courts today this will never happen. But it actually happened over a hundred years ago. In a lecture by David Barton he shared accounts where judges would sentence murders to prison and execution. Then after the sentencing the judge would speak to the condemned criminal about his immortal soul. And then plead that he get a Bible and seek faith in Jesus Christ. This seem to be accepted practice over a 100 or 150 years ago in our judicial system. But this was a time when at least men could speak the name of Christ without fear of reproach.

I am 64 years old. I was educated in the public school system. I first heard the gospel story through my second grade teacher. Imagine my surprise when she spoke of the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem. And the Christmas story was not about Santa Claus and the reindeer. This was at a time when we prayed before lunch. This was in a time when Bible stories could be told in elementary school. The seeds of the gospel we're actually planted in my heart through my elementary school teachers. And this was in the public school system.

I remember when I first heard the Christmas carol God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen let nothing you dismay. Remember Christ Our Savior was born on Christmas Day. To save us all from Satan's power when we have gone astray. O Tidings of Comfort and Joy. Comfort and joy. I heard that lovely Christmas Carol through my fifth grade teacher. It did something to my heart.

When I was in the 12th grade my senior year of high school. I spoke with my history teacher after class. I also spoke with my speech teacher. The issue was my conduct at a speech tournament. Eventually I poured out my heart to them. Later my speech teacher called me that evening and invited me to come to her church. This was in a time when the name of Christ could be spoken in the public school system. It was later going to that church that the pastor led me in a commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. All because a teacher took the time to invite me to church.

What I shared with you above cannot be done in the public school system today. If anything the movie God is Not Dead 2 gives us an illustration of what can happen in the classroom when a teacher speaks of Christ in the public school system. Or when a State Trooper shares his faith in Christ.

Brothers and sisters do you not see what is happening here. There was a time in this nation when the name of Jesus Christ could be spoken in the public Arena. You did not have to worry about lawsuits from the ACLU. But those times are now changing. And it will never be the way it was.

But if we can look up from our keyboards for a moment. Pleasr look at the bigger picture. The fact that this state trooper is being silenced is part of a bigger effort to silence the name of Jesus Christ in the public arena.

Does anybody other than Jeff and Frank not see what is going on here. There is an ongoing conspiracy, yes conspiracy, to silence the name of Jesus Christ in the public arena. No longer can one speak of the name of Jesus Christ without fear of retribution from the ACLU, the LBGT, or any other alphabet agency that wants to bring a lawsuit against Christians.

Forum I say gently I think some of you do not realize what is happening here. Brother Jeff and brother Frank see what is happening. But I think the great majority of you do not realize that the name of Jesus Christ is being silenced in the public Arena.

I say again the name of Jesus Christ is being silenced in the public arena in the United States of America.

I know some of you despise my post about the persecuted nations. But I am asking you to please wake up and see what is happening. If you will not take my word for it then go listen to the video by Paul Washer again. He said this is not silly talk. The name of Jesus Christ is being silenced in the public Arena. Do you not see that? Do you not see that?

Brothers and sisters you may blow me off. That is fine. But I am sounding a warning. What has happened with this officer. What has happened in other cases are not just random occurrences. But it is part of a larger pattern to silence the name of Jesus Christ. I ask again do you not see this?

My brothers and sisters if you do not wake up. When the net does close. You will weep and wail. You will ask why were we not warned?

Brothers and sisters right now there are businesses that are being sued because they will not offer services to same-sex couples because of their Christian convictions. Pastors will have to turn in their sermons for approval by governmental authorities if they preach out against the LBGT. Students are being dismissed from degree programs because they stand for the truth of Jesus Christ. Christian employees are being dismissed from their jobs because they speak of Christ.

All of this is part of a wider pattern to silence the name of Jesus Christ. Let me use the politically incorrect term of conspiracy.

For all I know you blow me off. I know some of you wish that I would not post on the issues of persecution. But I feel compelled to warn you that the name of Jesus Christ is being silenced in this nation.

We are under a mandate to preach the gospel. At least I comnend this trooper for preaching Jesus. Who knows the seeds that he may have planted. But Satan does not like the gospel going forth. And particularly Satan does not like souls being saved. Not when he can take them to hell.

I will always be thankful to God that that history teacher invited me to her church. But will teachers now have the courage to invite their students to church. Will they have the courage to speak of Jesus Christ.

Again the bigger picture is this is a wider pattern to silence the name of Jesus Christ. Forum your issue is not with me. Your issue is to see that the name of Jesus Christ is being silenced in the public Arena. I don't know how I can say it any plainer. This is part of a conspiracy to silence the name of Jesus Christ.

Despise me if you will. Send emails to Greg to get me off the Forum. But brothers and sisters I have to warn you persecution is here in America. And to speak the name of Jesus Christ will have repercussions perhaps even the giving of our lives.

Dear brothers and sisters I have warned you out of a Heart of love. Your blood is not on my hands. But I beg you and implore you please wake up. For the name of Jesus Christ is being silenced in this nation.

I would rather stand with God and be judged by this forum. Rather than stand with this forum and be judged by God.

Respectfully posted in love.

Blaine Scogin

People go to prison for "conspiracy to commit murder" or "conspiracy to commit XYZ crimes". So conspiracies sometimes have meat on the bones. So we shouldn't throw out all the babies with all the bath water.

As far as the rest of your post Blaine: stop being ridiculous Kermit (the frog). Just get back in the nice warm silver hot tub on top of the stove. It's a party tub & everyone is in it. Anyone saying frogs die like that is just an illogical, unwise, foolish conspiracy frog. 😊

I would say something more serious, but it would just get explained away. I would ask, "well what about....XYZ...." But I have & people avoid harder questions altogether & go on about the narrative that this guy should be fired cause sharing Christ on the job is "UnAmerican". Well, so be it.

God Bless,
Jeff

When Antichrist comes on the world scene and when he will rule the whole world and persecute Christians who don't worship Him or his image, I think to have lived in a communist country would have been a paradise compared with what Christians would go thru during the great tribulation.

Many of us Christians just don't understand or take for granted the liberties we still have in America. My family lives in Belgium, if the prime minister or the King will say God bless Belgium after a very important national speech, people will laugh and think he is a fool, the same applies in other countries in Europe. In American it is still expected of a president whether he is a Republican or Democrat to say God bless America for how long we don't know yet?

With all that said like other brothers and sisters here I believe persecution is coming to America, it will be God's judgment to a nation who took for granted his blessings

Dear brother,

This is so important thank you for sharing your experiences and childhood. If you felt led do write more on this and perhaps start a new thread. These things are so very important right now for american believers. This free ebook on persecution we have been sharing that takes principles from north korea and china: http://housechurchbook.weebly.com

Brother,
You accuse me of doing something & then go on (forever at length) to do just that very thing against me?

Accusations...

All I can really say at this point is:

God Bless you,
Jeff

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brother Jeff, what you could also say is that you will take what brother David has said to heart and pray about it. If we cannot listen to one another on a forum like this, how will we ever listen to others in a real life church fellowship situation? And that is a really important issue. Learning to love and submit to one another. I think the Lord can use SI to help us all. Iron sharpens iron.

That's fine. I will do that. It just came across to me as accusations & slander of my specific motives/intents & then telling me I'm accusing others. I'm Not trying to be obstinate, but that feels on this side of the post like "the pot calling the kettle black".

Just being honest: it seemed like "the spirit" I was sharing in was declared as some evil contentious spirit & then every contention with anything I said was laid out, & then a soft ending?

Maybe I read it wrong. Just following the logic trail.

I will pray about it. Definitely.

God Bless,
Jeff

I hear you brother Jeff. I don't believe that brother David was coming across in an accusatory manner, but rather in correction. I know for myself I sometimes do not know what spirit I am off...that's why we need one another, right? Iron sharpens iron, its a wonderful thing if we can let it happen. Blessings!