Christian Mysticism vs. The Holy Spirit

Christian Mysticism vs. The Holy Spirit

A. Mystical Experience

1. No true believer will deny that experience or even, mystical experience, has a place in the Christian life.

2. For instance, the divine events that bring a sinner to salvation could be described as a mystical experience.

3. A mystical experience could be an evangelism tract that was picked up, or someone randomly entering a church out of desperation and hearing a gospel presentation, or even standing in line in a grocery store next to a believer. Other mystical experiences could be a definite answer to prayer, an unexpected provision, or a season of spiritual renewal.

4. Even some of our great hymns of the faith suggest a "mystic’ sweet communion” from "The Church’s One Foundation.”

5. However, these mystical experiences might rather be described as "God’s supernatural work in everyday life.”

B. Christian Mysticism

1. Christian Mysticism, on the other hand, differs in that the concept of Christianity is combined with Mysticism.

2. Definitions:

a) Mysticism (from the Greek mustiko´s an initiate of a mystery religion, mustê´ria meaning "initiation") is the pursuit of achieving communion, identity with, or conscious awareness of ultimate reality, the Other, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight. (Wikipedia.org)

b) Christian Mysticism … maintains that God dwells in all Christians and that they can experience God directly through belief in Jesus… [It] aspires to apprehend spiritual truths inaccessible through intellectual means, typically by emulation of Christ. (Wikipedia.org)

3. The problem with both of these types of mysticism is that in order to have union with God (the Other or the Absolute), the intellect and divine revelation of the Scriptures must be abandoned.

In other words, in one degree or another, Christian Mysticism does not rely upon the Scriptures for its truth and spirituality, but rather upon one’s own feelings, impressions, and intuitions.

Gnostic Mysticism

1. Mysticism is also an ingredient of Gnosticism. A form of pre-Gnosticism was a false teaching circulating around the time of New Testament writings.

2. Paul addresses this pre-Gnosticism specifically in Colossians and by John likewise in 1, 2, 3 John.
....
[http://www.gracebiblegillette.org/Mysticism-Christian.htm]

Moravians contemplative Mysticism

Zinzendorf was a Rosicrucian. In late medieval Germany, the Rosicrucians were a secret society of mystics holding a doctrine built on esoteric truths, and secret doctrines of the ancient past. They believed that these secret mystical truths were concealed from the average man, and reserved for an elite few. [6] Much like today s New Apostolic Reformers, these mystics sought a universal Reformation of Mankind. Many modern esoteric orders and secret societies are said to draw in part or in whole on the Rosicrucian s philosophies.  Zinzendorf was head of the Rose Croix (Rosicrucian) from 1744 - 1749. [7] In fact Masonic dictionaries list a category called Moravian Masonry which was founded in 1939 called the Confraternity of Moravian Brothers of the Order of the Religious Freemasons. An alternative order was the Order of the Grain of Mustard Seed which itself originated in 1922 through Count Zinzendorf. Members of the Order wore a ring on which was inscribed in Latin no one of us lives for himself Its purpose was for the extension of the Kingdom of Heaven through Masonic Channels. [2] Although he sought to build a Kingdom on earth, it most certainly had nothing to do with the God of the Bible.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20090619080938/http://deceptionbytes.com/content/hidden-agenda-order-mustard-seed]

STUDY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

A. The Holy Spirit Has A Convicting Ministry In The World (Jn 16:8-11).

1. Christ told us that one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit, when He came, was going to be a convicting ministry. "Convict” comes from the Greek word ele´gcho and means generally to show someone that they have done something wrong in order to bring light and repentance (cp. Jn 3:20). The Spirit, therefore, reveals sin in the world which is against God or His Word.

2. He specifically convicts the unbelieving "world” (kosmos cp. Jn 3:16) so that they might believe (8). He convicts the world of their sin (primarily unbelief) and their need for a Savior (9).

a) Thus the convicting work of the Spirit is the placing of the truth of the gospel in a clear light before the unsaved person so he acknowledges it as truth whether or not he receives Christ as personal Saviour. Conviction is making the message clear, not the saving of the soul””that’s regeneration. (Ryrie, A Survey of Bible Doctrine)

b) The Holy Spirit also convicts (same Greek word but translated "correction” in 2Ti 3:16) the believer but in the sense of correcting and sanctifying him through the instruction and preaching of the Scriptures (2Ti 4:2). The Holy Spirit’s convicting ministry plays a major role as to what should take place during worship (preaching the Word and conviction).

3. He convicts the world (8, 10) of falling short of God’s righteousness (Ro 3:23) and of its own sin of self-righteousness so that the world might believe and avail themselves of Christ’s imputed righteousness (Ph 3:9).

4. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of God’s judgment upon it (8, 11) in view of the fact that Satan, the god of this world has been judged (1Jn 3:8) and that the world has not believed on the Savior (Jn 3:18).

The Concept of the Filling of the Holy Spirit

a) In order to understand the filling of the Spirit, there are certain things we must understand that filling is not.

(1) Being filled with the Holy Spirit does not equate to an ecstatic experience before, during, or after being filled. Filling is the work of the Spirit by which the believer continually lives his Christian life under the influence of the Holy Spirit.

(2) Being filled with the Holy Spirit does not mean a person will be able to speak in tongues. The NT does record that some believers were filled with the Holy Spirit and also spoke in tongues. But nowhere does Scripture say that speaking in tongues is a by-product or an evidence of being filled with the Spirit. Rather the NT states that as a spiritual gift, tongues was not given to every believer (1Co 12:30).

(3) Being filled with the Holy Spirit does not mean that a believer receives extra-biblical revelation about the Lord’s will. In fact, Eph 5:17 argues that believers are not to be foolish (aphron - without the mind), but are to understand (suniêmi - to fit together in order to understand) the will of the Lord. The will of the Lord is perceived by understanding the Scriptures.

b) What actually is the filling of the Holy Spirit?

(1) Filling of the Holy Spirit is being under the influence and control of the Holy Spirit. It is not being out of control and doing wild acts in the name of the Holy Spirit. When the believer is under the control of the Spirit, he exhibits the fruit of the Spirit, which includes "self-control” (egkrateia - mastery over one’s self).

(2) Filling of the Holy Spirit means that a believer is under the control of the Holy Spirit by being under the control of the Spirit’s Word (2Pe 1:20-21). The Holy Spirit controls us through the Scriptures that He authored. In a sense, we can say that the reason the Holy Spirit gave us the Scriptures was to communicate and control the Spirit-filled believer.

(3) Filling of the Spirit means that the Holy Spirit has complete control over the believer. It does not mean that the believer receives more of the Holy Spirit. Rather filling means the Holy Spirit has more of the yielded believer. A believer is filled to the degree that he has yielded and submitted to the Lordship of Christ and His Word.

4. The Results of the Filling of the Holy Spirit

a) The context following Eph 5:18 gives us the results of the filling of the Spirit.

b) Saturated with Scripture: One of the results is that a believer is saturated with the Scriptures and thoughts about Scripture (Eph 5:19a). A Spirit-filled believer is allows the Scripture to dwell in him richly (Col 3:16). As a result it overflows in wisdom, teaching, and the encouragement with the Scriptures. This would also include speaking the word of God with boldness (Ac 4:31; 1Th 2:2).

c) Joy of the Holy Spirit: Another result is the spiritual joy of the Holy Spirit (Neh 8:10; 1Th 1:6) which is expressed by the melody and joy in the heart inwardly and outwardly (Eph 5:19). Note that the singing is spiritual in nature and revolves around Scripture

d) Giving Thanks: A believer filled with Holy Spirit exhibits a thankful attitude toward God in all things (1Th 5:18) and for all things (Eph 5:20), knowing that God is in control and that God works all things together for good, even trials and tribulations.

e) Attitude of Submission: Eph 5:21 continues to describe the behavior of a believer filled with the Holy Spirit by the word "subject” (hupota´sso - arrange under, submission). A Spirit-filled believer obviously submits himself to the Lordship of Christ, but also to other believers in a desire to serve them and see them grow spiritually. This is the same subjection that a Spirit-filled wife is to have toward her husband (Eph 5:22-24); a Spirit-filled husband is to have toward Christ in regard to his wife (Eph 5:25-33) and his children (Eph 6:4); Spirit-filled children are to have toward their parents (Eph 6:1); employees and citizens have toward their employers (Eph 6:5-8) and authorities (Rom 13:1-7).

5. The Conditions of Continually being Filled with the Holy Spirit

a) Submit to the Lordship of Christ, the Spirit, and the Word of God moment by moment in every area of life (1Pe 3:15a; Luk 6:46; Eph 5:18 - 6:9).

b) Saturate your mind and life with the Word of God (Joh 15:5; Col 3:16)

c) Confess your sins immediately (1Jo 1:9; Pro 1:23)

d) Do not quench the Spirit (1Th 5:19).

e) Do not grieve the Spirit (Eph 4:30).

f) Walk by the Spirit (Gal 5:16, 25).

[http://www.gracebiblegillette.org/studyofspirit.htm]

Quote: 3. The problem with both of these types of mysticism is that in order to have union with God (the Other or the Absolute), the intellect and divine revelation of the Scriptures must be abandoned.

In other words, in one degree or another, Christian Mysticism does not rely upon the Scriptures for its truth and spirituality, but rather upon one’s own feelings, impressions, and intuitions."
-------------------
Who says?

To say that someone like Tozer who was, at a minimum, sympathetic to some of the Christian Mystics was in agreement with "abandoning scripture" is gross slander. Sorry, but I will have to trust Tozer on this point.

There are so many heresies and doctrinal errors flying around that it is tempting to "play it safe," stick to the basics and not search into the "deep things of God." But Hebrews 6 warns us about the dangers of laying the foundations over and over again and not "going on to perfection." As we go on to the fulness of Christ there are dangers and snares along the way, but the greatest danger of all is perpetual immaturity.

"Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him." - 1 Corinthians 8:1-3 NKJV

How do you come to the conclusion that Zinzendorf was a Mason and Rosarycrucian?

That throws up a lot of confusion since the Moravians had a strong influence on Wesley, Georg Müller and many other movements.

Are you sure you are quoting from credible sources? Did you just copy and paste others or are you sure what you say is true?

RE: Brenda: "Another misunderstanding is regarding the word mystery. According to scripture, it is something to be revealed by the Spirit and only kept hidden from the blind. Their own hearts keeps their minds in darkness. There is no secret to it - it is to the obedient that more light is given, obedient that is to the light given to their consciences."

"mystery”= #3447 = mus-the-rion/musterion= a hidden thing of
meaning. a matter to the knowledge of, in which initiation is necessary.

The word "musterion” is a term used for those religions which had special secrets that were kept and known only by the inner sanctum. To learn them, one must go through certain rituals or rites of passage - special tests to prove and earn for oneself the trusts and rights necessary to learn the special secrets. Usually these were connected to the idea of witchcraft and sorcery by which one enters into treaties and contracts with the supernatural rebel satanic forces for certain favors in exchange for carrying out certain missions on behalf of the rebel satanic forces. [R.Coombes]

My comment: Unity in diversity always DOES include all error, that's why so many are confused about this and has led to this current situation of 2 Thessalonians 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

narrowpath: The link of the article about that has all the sources of the individual quotes, so you can do your own research by going to these sources. I came to that article while doing research on Contemplative Mysticism. Some Additional Study Resources:

Contemplative Mysticism: A Powerful Ecumenical Bond
https://kimolsen.net/2015/01/08/contemplative-mysticism-a-powerful-ecumenical-bond/

Contemplative Spirituality Comes to Modern Day Christianity

Contemplative Spirituality: A belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult but is often wrapped in Christian terminology.
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/contemplativespirituality.htm

Some easier entry to understand this GREAT COMPROMISE - a whole book about it in simple terms:

The God of End-Time Mysticism

Mysticism is a major element of the mystery of iniquity.
Through mysticism men are drawn toward Satan and his
program under the guise of "spirituality.”
They are captured by lies under the guise of truth.

Mysticism takes many forms. It is the humanist following
his heart. It is the secular rocker understanding that
"music is a spiritual thing of its own” (Jimi Hendrix). It is
the Christian rocker seeking to experience "the presence”
of God. It is the charismatic yielding to the "flow of the
Spirit” and refusing to "put God in a box.” It is Timothy
Leary seeking enlightenment through LSD. It is the
Catholic or evangelical contemplative seeking God in
the silence. It is the New Ager channeling spirits. It is the
Buddhist seeking Nirvana through the five-fold path. It is
the Hindu pursuing unity with God through yoga. It is the
psychology student seeking to perfect his self-esteem by
practicing unconditional forgiveness.

[ http://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/god_of_mysticism.php ]

In 1753 a man named Henry Rimius claimed to have infiltrated the Moravians and wrote a book called "A Candid Narrative of the Rise and Progress of the Herrnhutters" which accused Zinzendorf of all sorts of spectacular crimes, including "Kabbalistic sex rites."

(I am not an expert on Judaism, but I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as "Kabbalistic sex rites.")

As far as I can tell, there was no 17th century Rosicrucian Order. The whole thing was a literary hoax by a very orthodox Lutheran pastor named Johannes Valentinus Andreae. Modern occult societies who call themselves Rosicrucians and claim to be part of some ancient mystery tradition are not in on the joke.

Anyway, the OP is a good read even though I disagree with its assessment of Zinzendorf.

A-servant: Do you have a closer walk with God than Zinzendorf? Do you want to lift your head and look God and Zinzendorf into the eyes on judgement day while you reiterate this statement?
Do you think you are doing the Holy Spirits work or the devils work by publishing such a statement?
I do not care about the validity of the rest of your post, if you call this "research". What would you you think of someone would pass on a vicious rumour about you and call this "research"?

Actually, since this created such an uproar I did look into a few
of the listed sources and until this moment cannot prove the author
of "The Hidden Agenda of The Order of the Mustard Seed"
Mishel Montague wrong, some sources paint an even less rosy picture.

If Wesley is right with his critic on Zinzendorf, then we should understand why

There is a follow up by Mishel, apparently written years later:

"The Zinzendorf of Rick Joyner and other Neo-Pentecostals is far
different from the Zinzendorf we discover by going back to period texts."

Examining Count Nikolaus Ludwig von Zinzendorf (1700-1760)
http://deceptionbytes.com/examining-count-nikolaus-ludwig-von-zinzendorf-1700-1760/

This is based on texts of that period, so most likely takes hours to verify,
but someone like you narrowpath should do it, in our all interest.
Then you can come back and ask me that question again.

I thought you had done all the research before you quoted this.

So you are in essence claiming your right to besmirch servants of God by taking 2 minutes to cut and paste and regurgitate someone's "research" work and expect others to spend hours of work to disprove your statement.

Even if I did prove you wrong, would you be willing to change your mind?

Read if you will: Leben des Grafen Ludwig von Zinzendorf by K.A.Varnhagen von Ense, it is written in ancient German if you do not mind ,it is available on Google. Zinzendorf was influential not only on Wesley and Müller, but countless others that did great exploits for God. The Moravians showed some of the purest manifestations of the Kingdom of God and their impact on Christian movements is enormous. Of course, they made mistakes and their are the odd aberrations by some of them, which you find in every movement of God.

Some -not all- of these discernment ministries are self-appointed sheriffs, and theological snipers who have no accountability. Even if what they say it 99% right, their 1% poison can still kill a sheep.

I normally do not get into arguments for no reason, but if it comes to circulating things that are not true about brothers dead or alive, I take a stand.

We ought to be careful with these statements, this is no small thing, you can murder people with your tongue or keyboard.

Yes, I too came out of much hyper charismatic error, but do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

"Some -not all- of these discernment ministries are self-appointed sheriffs, and theological snipers who have no accountability."

So you didn't even look at:

Examining Count Nikolaus Ludwig von Zinzendorf (1700-1760)
http://deceptionbytes.com/examining-count-nikolaus-ludwig-von-zinzendorf-1700-1760/

The above author did nothing except quote all of these people:

Broomhall, Susan and Jacqueline Van Gent. "Side Wounds, Sex, and Savages.” Governing Masculinities in the Early Modern Period: Regulating Selves and Others. Surrey: Ashgate Publishing, 2011. 194. Print.

Fogelman, Aaron Spencer. Jesus is Female: Moravians and Radical Religion in Early America. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 2008. Print.

Frey, Andreas. A True and Authentic Account of Andrew Frey: Containing the Occasion of him Coming Among the Hernhuters or Moravians. London: J. Robinson in Ludgate-Street, M. Keith in Grace-Church-Street, M. Cook at the Royal Exchange, and J. Jolliff in St. James’s-Street, 1753. Print.

Hamilton, John Taylor. A History of the Church Known as the Moravian Church, or, the Unitas Fratrum, or, the Unity of the Brethren, During the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries. Bethlehem: Times Publishing Company, 1900. Print.

Lachman, Gary. "Esoteric Revolution.” Politics and the Occult: The Left, the Right, and the Radically Unseen. 1st ed. Wheaton: Quest Books, 2008. 53-71. Print.

Lavington, George. The Moravians Compared and Detected. London: J&P Knapton. 1755. Print.

Mack, Phyllis. Heart Religion in the British Enlightenment: Gender and Emotion in Early Methodism. 1st ed. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2008. 44-45. Print.

O’Neill, Tim. "The Erotic Freemasonry of Count Nicholas Von Zinzendorf.” Secret and Suppressed: Banned Ideas and Hidden History. Ed. Jim Keith. Venice: Feral House Books, 1993. 103-108. Print.

Perkins, Robert L. International Kierkegaard Commentary: Practice in Christianity. 20. Macon: Mercer University Press, 2004. 221-222. Print.

Peucker, Paul. "”Inspired by Flames of Love”: Homosexuality, Mysticism, and Moravian Brothers around 1750.” Journal of the History of Sexuality. 15.1 (2006): 30-64. Print.

Schuchard, Marsha Keith. Why Mrs. Blake Cried: William Blake and the Erotic Imagination. New York: Random House, 2006. Print

Rimius, Henry. A Candid Narrative of the Rise and Progress of the Herrnhuters, Commonly Call’d Moravians, or, Unitas Fratrum; with a Short Account of their Doctrines, Drawn from Their own Writings. London: A. Linde, 1753. Print

””. The History of the Moravians: From their First Settlement at Herrnhaag in the County of Büdingen, down to the Present Time, with a View Chiefly to Their Political Intrigues. London: Royal Exchange, 1754. Print.

Wesley, John. Queries Humbly Proposed to the Right Reverend and Right Honorable Count Zinzendorf. London: Royal Exchange, 1755. Print.

Are all of them self-appointed sheriffs, and theological snipers?

"RE: Not a credible source. Are the rest of the citations as idiotic and nonsensical as this one?"

Would have to check them all to answer that, I only know Wesley that asked:

"Were ever such words put together from the foundation of the world?"

I cannot put here to what he reponded to, it's possibly the most absurd statement I have ever read

according to Wesleys letters these things have never been resolved because the Herrnhuters simply never answered his queries regarding that.

"Yes, I too came out of much hyper charismatic error, but do not throw the baby out with the bathwater."

I was into mysticism before I became a Christian - that prevented me to ever be impressed with charismatism, it is absolutely the same principles.

The last church I quit was a charismatic one, all was well until the main preacher tried to explain to us what faith is, and mostly used hall-of-fame world class declared satanists of pop culture and tech inovation to illustrate his point that "they achieved their goal because they believed they can do it". It became clear that this preacher had absolutely no clue of what he was talking about.

Just one random source you mentioned in your list, George Lavington

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Lavington,_George_(DNB00)

Lavington, as a strenuous opponent of methodism, acted with great severity to the Rev. George Thompson, one of its chief supporters in Cornwall, and refused to accept the testimonials of Thomas Haweis [q.v.] because he disliked the views of the signatory clergymen. In 1748 there was printed a fictitious extract from a charge just delivered by him in his diocese which exposed him to the charge of favouring methodism, whereupon he publicly accused its leaders of having promoted the fraud. Through the aid of the Countess of Huntingdon their innocence was proved, and Lavington was induced to retract his accusation.

Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the Lord .
Leviticus 19:16 KJV

It just stinks

OP there are many people who misunderstand Christian mystics and they also had some doctrinal errors too but many of them were godly men and women who lived exemplary lives of holiness and devotion to God.

There is a false mystical experience as well as there is a false revival experience. The devil can counterfeit any spiritual gift, grace or experience. Christian mystics sought that oneness with God thru Jesus Christ and that's what every true believer should desire, spiritual fellowship and unity with Christ and God the Father.

They taught that we should love God from a pure motive and heart and that this love should be unselfish. Basicly what they were saying is that we should love God more than we love ourselves and that pure love comes from God and also they demonstrated that by example living a life of total devotion to Him.

Those critiques of the christian mystics often are void of that pure and divine love that burned deep in the hearts of these christian mystics and they lack the gift of spiritual discernment, yes that gift is even for today brother when the devil is deceiving more than ever naive souls. Tozer spoke to us in the language of a godly mystic but in Protestant terminology.

And as for Zinzendorf all I'm hearing about him is gossip based not on facts, it seems like his enemies in his time were trying to slander his character. Moravian brothers of the 18th century were the most godly and self-sacrificing people in the history of modern church, many of them died for Christ sake in mission field, they were the greatest missionary movement in the 18th century. During that time the Protestant Church at large was disinterested in missions.

Without the moravian revival, there would have not been any methodist revival, any John Welsey or any holiness revival in the 19th century, there would have been no Tozer or Ravenhill because of that humble little group of godly people that earnestly sought God in prayer the evangelical and Protestant history was influenced for good and only God knows the great impact they had on evangelical revival and modern missionary movement.

P.S - Often the critiques of christian mystics are either staunch calvinistics, or some fundamentalists who look for the smallest error in the life or teaching of the godliest men or it can be some Christians who were involved in some pseudo mystical experience before they converted or after conversion and now they sound the alarm as if all mystical experience is false, throwing the baby with the bathwater. We know that the so called contemplative teaching today that has infiltrated evangelical churches is shallow and false. Its not the work of the Holy Spirit but spiritual deception in the form and name of classic Christian mysticism deceiving naive souls looking for a experiences without Christ and the Cross. True christian mystics exalted the Cross and Christ, read Fenelon and you will see what I mean brother.

Hey, elected Re: "classic Christian mysticism"

ah, now we're getting somewhere. Is there something like "classic Christian mysticism". I would say no, but I will look into it a bit further. That term reminds me of someone who was a member here a few years ago: "Bro. Tom" if I remember correctly. I read him again on another forum where he told us what he really believed. Part of it was that the dead Bin Laden was not dead, he actually talked to him and told him that he was the anti-christ.

"staunch calvinistics, or some fundamentalists who look for the smallest error"

I think this is about one of the biggest errors possible. It has endtimes quality of gigantic porportions, the roots, the fruit, the infiltrations, the influence on Christianity as such. Without it the Mystery of endtimes Babylon would not be possible. Your thinking in categories of calvinists or some fundamentalists has nothing to to with it, these labels are irrelevant in that regard, neither would I use them in order to understand anything.

let's have a look in Germany at current day Herrnhuters
and what we can find is some interesting info:

a "same sex partnerships compatible with Christianity" declaration

& Rolf Appel is "one of the leading freemasons alive"
that already wrote 50 books about freemasonry.

1946 - 1970 he was the book publisher of the Herrnhuter community
1950 - 1962 Leader of Youth (Flensburg to Göttingen) of the Herrnhuter community
2003 Member of the Council of Elders of the Herrnhuter community
etc. 'achievements' like ..."negotiating relationship of freemasonry with Rome"

http://www.der-ruf.info/herrnhuter-losungen-brueder-unitaet/

source is in german, use a quick translator software

I happen to understand German, so no need for a translator.

You cannot hold Zinzendorf responsible for what people who bear the name of his movement do afterwards. Look at contemporary methodism and you find all sorts of things one can object. Look at any movement that used to be on God's cutting edge in the past and you may see signs of decay.

God has no grand children.

I can pick up any junk from the web and publish it.

Christian Mystics - In the past God hid this mystery, but now he has revealed it to his people. Col 1:6

Jesus plainly said that if we are unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God. Jesus the last Adam is a life giving spirit and as a Christian we are all mystics and fully capable of understanding what God has given us.

However within our midsts there are those who operate through the Spirit of this world; if we look at church history it is littered with misguided movements many of them are linked with mysticism.

The fact that false Mysticism has many forms can be seen by the litany Paul gives in Colossians:

Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day ”” things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God. If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” (which all refer to things destined to perish with use) in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

Paul calls this approach "self-made religion” which is exactly what all forms of mysticism are. They all suggest that having been converted by the Lord through the cross and practicing His ordained means of grace by faith are inadequate. They have discovered a better way that leads to a higher order experience. Paul says they have "the appearance of wisdom.”

His list includes ascetic practices, the monastic movement led to the idea that one could become a higher order Christian and be more pleasing to God.

Mystical practices that today are being brought back into the church under the guise that they came from a time when Christianity was pristine and not tainted by modernity.

Luther wrote a lengthy essay demonstrating that scripture rejects the validity of monastic vows. His essay is also an interesting look into the issues that were debated at the time of the Reformation. One key issue for Luther was that the monastics went beyond the gospel and made commandments out of matters that God has not commanded and in so doing sought to achieve a superior standing before God. One such example was celibacy. Luther argued that vowing something that God had not commanded is sinful: "The very foundation of the monastic vows is godlessness, blasphemy, sacrilege, which has befallen them because they spurn Christ, their leader and light, and presume to follow other things they think better.” They thought they could improve on the teachings of Christ and live a superior spirituality by swearing oaths to live pious lives beyond anything Christ required of His people. Luther condemned this as sinful. Luther wrote, "If you obey the gospel, you ought to regard celibacy as a matter of free choice: if you do not hold it as a matter of free choice, you are not obeying the gospel. . . .

A vow of chastity, therefore, is diametrically opposed to the gospel. So in Luther’s day, he taught that Christians were in error and sin if they bound themselves by oath to a practice not required by Christ. Though they may think themselves more pious than ordinary Christians because of their special vows, Luther called them gross sinners.

Today the largest new mystical movement is the Emergent Church; now assume that since ordinary Christianity is compromised, they must discover an extraordinary way to become better Christians. One Emergent leader has even entitled one of his works, "A New Kind of Christian.”

But this movement really isn’t all that new it draws on teachings and practices found in other mystical movements in church history. Furthermore, the Purpose Driven movement is also a mystical movement, Rick Warren claims there are world class Christians that are in a better category than ordinary Christians. The apostles and prophets movement is also mystical.

So ironically, three huge movements in American evangelicalism (Purpose Driven, Emergent, and C. Peter Wagner’s latter day apostles) are all based on Mysticism. The three movements seem radically diverse, but each one claims to be a new reformation and each offers a higher status than that of ordinary Christians.

I'm new to the author David Cloud, but not new to see things
and discern like him, in my opinion he does not go far enough,
because he has got a "blind spot" in regard to American
centered understanding, what only can be overcome when
compared to for example the view from a German author
like Rudolf Ebertshauser I will quote later, but David Cloud
has got the basics right:

The Charismatic Movement

Mysticism has been a major element of the Pentecostal-
Charismatic movement throughout its history. Charismatic
phenomena such as "spirit slaying” and seeking tongues
through emptying the mind are forms of blind mysticism.

To seek something that the Bible never says seek,
in ways the Bible does not support,
and to open oneself uncritically to religious experiences
like this, puts one in imminent danger of receiving
"another spirit” (2 Cor. 11:4).

The Bible warns that there are deceiving spirits that attempt
to influence Christians and they can appear as angels of light
and ministers of God (2 Cor. 11:13-15; Mat. 24:24).

Paul warned the believers at Corinth that they were in danger
of receiving false spirits because of their carnal, broadminded,
undiscerning condition (2 Cor. 11:3-4).

The true Christian cannot be possessed by evil spirits,
but he can certainly be influenced by them, and many
professing Christians who are messing around with
charismatic practices have never been born again,
and they can be possessed!

source: [ http://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/god_of_mysticism.php ]

we all have been deceived at one time - I was wakeing up this
morning with the song "...major Tom to ground control..." on my
mind thinking about "Bro. Tom" talking about "Christian mysticism"
and reflecting on many forum doctrines I came across here
over the years. When I joined this forum it was a group of stark
antinomians and a compromise with a spirit that could not
differentiate between truth and deception. Sometimes things look as
if they would have changed but in reality the understanding of scripture
declined over time and the charismatic idea of a endtimes revival
slowly turned into the true condition of that pragmatic of being in fact
part of the great falling away and endtimes deception. Now people
seem to have problems decoding even the simplest of errors,
and it all started with antinomianism.

Here are some experiences people at SI had with David Cloud

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42676&forum=35&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

Rudolf Ebertshäuser is cessationist and staunch opponent of the pentecostal and charismatic movement.

I have something for you, (audio) only for you, I think you can understand it(?) :

Biblischer Glauben oder mystisches Schauen?
Dieser Vortrag geht auf den biblischen Weg des Glaubens ein, der sich an das Wort Gottes und den unsichtbaren Herrn hält, und beleuchtet kritisch den trügerischen Weg des Schauens und Spürens, den die Mystik einschlägt.

http://www.das-wort-der-wahrheit.de/downloads/object_details.php?ucat_id=38&oid=306&id=128

Hi a-servant, I did not listen to that particular message but to another one that talked about the history of the pentecostal and charismatic movement.

I listened to the message while pulling weeds in my garden, carefully avoiding damaging the shrubs I planted. Then I thought that this is a picture of who we should discern; pulling the weeds and leaving the shrubs. Some of these discernment ministries just caterpillar the garden and pour concrete over it.

I agree with him to the degree that he denounced some of the aberrations and extremes of these streams. I came out of these when I witness the collapse of our church 10 years ago. I am too an opponent of this neo-mysticism that has infiltrated evangelical ranks.

This issue I have with men like David Cloud and Rudolf Ebertshäuser is that they cause much collateral damage to the good and right, too. It is like in the Vietnam war where they threw Napalm bombs on whole civilian villages in the hope to kill some Vietcong.

He bedevils all Charismatics and Pentecostals wholesale, focussing only on the extremes. That is a gross insult to the Holy Ghost.
There is a right use of these things. The devils tactic is to drive one to the extremes and turn the opponents into killers out of fear.
Men like him do not believe that there is a filling with the Holy Spirit to be received after conversion, because they never had the experience because they never fully surrendered to Christ.

Paul was not saved by correct doctrine but by the revelation of Christ. Then all his doctrine centered around the Christ he saw revealed. "I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision"

There are other discernment ministries, for instance the Berean Call from Dave Hunt/McMahon or Letusreason.org that give a far more balanced view of these current issues in the evangelical church, like mysticism. I have come across many discernment guys that are staunch calvinists or bitter and angry theological snipers, Shibboleth assassins, that strain a gnat and swallow a camel. Jesus did not scold the criminals but he had the harshest word for the heartless pharisees.

I am still waiting for your answer on my question earlier on, btw ;)

"RE: He bedevils all Charismatics and Pentecostals wholesale, focussing only on the extremes. That is a gross insult to the Holy Ghost."

You should listen to that audio, he does not "bedevil" anyone. He goes straight to the root of the error, and explains it in simple words to everyone that is able to listen to biblical teaching. Do you have ears to hear? Most of your previous comments always attack the messenger or the media, never the case at hand. Do facts lie, because they are not smooth enough to swallow? Your view is a bit hysteric and exposes your understanding of what the Bible says in this regard.

"gross insult to the Holy Ghost" - Wow, I am sorry to see someone expresses the idea that a sound Christian teacher like him that came out of that movement by the grace of Jesus Christ and now tries to help others to come back to the truth of the foundations of Jesus Christ would in reality be teaching a "gross insult to the Holy Ghost". What do you know and understand about the Holy Ghost outside your presumed "experience?" You are the one that issues a wholesale condemnation here based soley on the assumptions that you have more insight than him.

"Dave Hunt/McMahon or Letusreason.org that give a far more balanced view of these current issues in the evangelical church"

I read both 10-15 years ago, and gave up on them because their balanced view is a view of compromise, far too many errors, I did grow out of that, these days everything that was hidden gets exposed for what it is. You can ignore that move of the Holy Spirit at your own convenience, I don't recommend it, honestly, a very dark idea.

"....that strain a gnat and swallow a camel. Jesus did not scold the criminals but he had the harshest word for the heartless pharisees."

Exactly, the heartless pharisees of our time uphold the consensual status quo of our time. and fight everyone that wants to go back to the real Jesus Christ and the real Holy Spirit. They hate it when their lies and misunderstandings are exposed for everyone to see, and have NO LOVE FOR THE TRUTH. Discernment is not judged according to its "balance" but according to its conformity to scripture.

Now to the previous 'shortcut of presumed alternative to thinking' terms like "cessationists". I am personally not a cessationist, my life is full of miracles of God and answered prayers. Jesus saved my life more than once, physical and spiritual, and I have seen wonders and healings in my own family. We also chased away real demons, and my accounts on other websites sometimes get disabled when I tell them about the power of the Holy Ghost to chase away and drive out these spirits. They just cannot handle that for some reason, apparently there must be a spiritual fight going on, and they do not accept the authority of the real Holy Ghost to drive out other spirits. Now if I look at things the way they are, and people tell me I should not read any so-called "cessationists" on these parts where they are obviously much closer to absolute truth than their critics because of their closeness to scripture that cannot lie, I once again can tell you what I always tell them: Drop your category labels, they just make you look "limited" and come back to Scripture. Don't be ignorant and only trust your experiences, they are not to be trusted just because they appear to be spiritual, the authority on that is in the Word of God, and exerience is to be judged by that. Let the Bible explain itself, everything is in there, let a wise teacher explain to you the misapplying of scripture in every human movement. Pentecostals missaply Joel 2:28 for example, among many others. They are basically anti-Bible because of personal experiences that are regarded of higher truth. That's why they are proud and almost unteachable, yet the hand of grace is always there to rescue the one that repents and returns. Every error that led us to the endtimes confusion is explained in the Scriptures, and teachers that have shown themselves approved to God can explain it to you.

Let the Holy Spirit of truth bless you abundantly!