Christian Boycotts

Recently I believe the Family Research Council announced a boycott of Target stores due to the LGBT bathroom issue.

My question is the propriety of boycotting in light of the following scriptures:
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Romans 12:14, 17-18 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

Matthew 5:43-46 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
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My question is whether a Christian boycott is a proper response- or does it make us look like unloving jerks?

What if the Family Research Council had instead said "to show our love to the LGBT community we are asking Christians to increase their shopping at Target."

Which scenario better shows the love of Christ?

I do not pretend to have the answer- just throwing it out for discussion.

So will the boycott help matters? Will it help to change the hearts of LGTBs?

We have to decide if this scripture means what it says:

Romans 12:20 Therefore"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;If he is thirsty, give him a drink;For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”

What does the last part of this verse mean?

Sodom and Gomorrah are already here and brought live to you in living blazing technical wonder working power straight to your living rooms and mobile devices via satellite. Our battle is not against the flesh, our own or any LGBT flag flapping lost soul’s. Our battle is against those powers and principalities that would have us despise these lost souls rather than pray them through as the Lord would lead us.

We had a target store in my reasonably large city and it didn’t last long. Within a year or so it was closed because nobody saw the merit in doing business there as better deals were to had elsewhere. Mind you I also believe it was God’s hand and the prayers of the saints here for this city and it’s people However, in the future should I be in the proximity of a Target store sans any children (keep the kids out of there), and God orchestrates a divine appointment well Glory to God there may be one less LGBT soul lost to the darkness and plucked from the fire amen? He would that none perish.

I'm not going to be diplomatic about this. I'm for the boycott. I'm for the boycott because to me this isn't about transgendered people as much as it is about predators. There are predominately evil men who want to have access to women and children any way they can for their own vile purposes and this is just the invitation they need. I also feel like what did people think was going to happen with their compromise for "gay marriage”. Did people really think it was going to stop there? Did they think celebrating Bruce Jenner's "transformation” was going to stop there? I remember over 20 years ago, one of my Professors who was a lesbian telling me that the "movement” wasn't homosexual but rather "polysexual”. So yeah "they” all want rights....

I can't just take the position of Joshua 24:15 and act like this doesn't affect my neighbor when it clearly does. I think there's a better way to love transgendered people besides putting women and children in danger. I feel that if transgendered people really cared about community they would have taken the compromise that was offered to them to have their own restrooms. That way everyone could be safe.

I truly know that God's Love is never absent of His Truth and His Holiness. I know because that's how I got Saved. In His Presence, God is pure unadulterated Love but He's fully Truth and He's completely Holy. With all that I had a conviction followed by repentance. I wish I could explain it better but was/is life transforming and God hasn't changed. Jesus is the same. The Holy Spirit is still the Spirit of Truth. So I'm all for loving the LGBT as long as this is the kind of love we're talking about.

I don't think former bad treatment of the LGBT by some Christians is a reason to not continue to stand for right and righteousness.

I agree Jasmine that this new ‘policy’ provides great opportunity for predators to have easier access to victimize children and vulnerable women, so yes stay away!

Beyond that, I agree with Jeff that supporting the ‘perversion‘ is hard earned dollars down the proverbial toilet (pun intended), and Julius I believe you are correct about the need to find balance in this area per the OP.

I guess in my first post I got a little side tracked and shifted from the discussion about 'boycotting' to plucking a few LGBT from the fire. Sorry for the distraction, and yet do pray for those poor lost souls.

Boycotts fail when the cause supported lacks consensus support. There are not enough Christians in America to boycott Target 100% and have enough impact to make them change their policy to "only go to the restroom that matches what the Lord gave you". They would double down on this and have glass walls on all the stalls, such is the delusion among us now. Everybody in America except the LGBT and their supporters would have to quit Target to close them involuntarily, IMO.

Boycotts also fail when the cause supported lacks media support. Media are the surrogate for actual thought. That is why they tell us what to think, and are quite open about that fact. America does not think. We do as we are told by media of all kinds and all perspectives. The media tells us LGBT is normal. So, we actually think, to a large enough degree, that Target is not wrong and besides who cares? You can't boycott successfully if the media is not in charge any more than you can be a party nominee for president if the powers that be are not picking you. We only think we are free. We are slaves, albeit unwittingly for the most part.

So, boycott if you like. Sooner or later, you will probably shop there again. We all pretty much lay down our arms eventually when it comes at the cost of laying down our money for something we want. Or, if you don't and you stick to your principles, wave at the folks swarming into the Target as you pass.

I appreciate all the responses, but no one has addressed the scripture in the OP.

Does a boycott heap burning coals on the heads of the LGBTs (per the actual meaning of that phrase) or is it just making a monetary stab at Target? In other words, what effect does the boycott have on LGBTs?

Target is a soulless corporation.

Let's think about an analogous scenario. Let's say there is a business in town, let's say a bakery, run by an openly gay couple. Would it have more of an effect from Gods perspective for Christians to 1) boycott their business to express their disdain for the couple's sin, or rather 2) lavishly patronize their bakery? Who is more likely to influence the couple for the Kingdom- the boycotters or the lavishers?

Why does it surprise us when an unsaved, unregenerate people act like unsaved, unregenerate people?
I mean honestly what did we think they were gonna do?

And now we (the body of Christ) are going to follow suit by boycotting their spiritual illiteracy!!??? Isn't that what the "world" would do....?

But we are not of this world,... Nope this place is not our home so why are we trying to get comfortable here?

Did Jesus or Paul or Peter or John boycott Herod, Festus, or Cesar.... Or did they concern themselves with the cause of Christ, namely the kingdom of God and live in such a way that the love of God and the truth of Christ was daily manifest in their lives so as to bring a living hope to a lost and dying world?

Is that what we're doing in our spare time when we're not busy boycotting some new offense or devouring our brothers and sisters that see things a lil dif?

The ship is sinking and we argue over bathrooms.... seriously!?

Now the words of Jesus make more sense than ever... "When the Son of man returns, will He find any faith upon the earth?"

I thought we were to be the lights of this world and as it gets darker and darker we'd shine brighter and brighter, not begin to flicker and sputter out-

Where is the love of God shed abroad in our hearts?

TMK, sorry to not address your question. We get off track around here so easily! :)

It can be more effective to lavish love on our enemies than to curse them. We're not told to love them based on how effective it is. And, love is sometimes not lavished -- sometimes it is tougher and truth-telling.

People work at Target. Target is a soulless corporation, indeed. The instruction to love our enemy in Romans 12 is applied by Paul in Romans 13 to government. People work the jobs of government. We pay to them the debt of love we owe to Jesus.

That is probably not often going to be expressed in a boycott. On the other hand, there may be other duties that rightly alter or even halt something recognizable as "love" for an enemy (i.e., predatory behavior against a child would require something way more coercive than a boycott and not generally seen as a loving hand even if it truly is).

As Americans, we treasure the power of a collective voice. It is all wrapped up in this whole democracy razzmatazz. As Christians, we DEEPLY let our American thought inform our Christian heart. It seldom (IMO!) produces anything worth doing or giving much thought to.

The questions asked are valid, thoughtful ones. Timely for me because, for the first time ever, I signed this very (or any) online petition/boycott just yesterday.

I've never been one to "get involved" with anything online. I've never put my personal information out there for any reason because I've never trusted the internet. Not even in the beginning. (Identity theft, data mining, big brother, etc.,)

Due to very recent, ongoing battles and changes in my life, I put myself out there for the first time with this boycott.

The original post has me thinking about this from a new angle now. I don't regret signing the boycott but I want more than ever to make sure I'm not doing anything out of my own ways or thinking, especially at this point in biblical history and where the Holy Spirit has me in life.

I don't know the answer to this. I don't believe Christians need to be the world's doormat, but I do want to be obedient to the scriptures, regardless of the cost or how I feel about it. What I get out of this thread, more than anything, is the reminder of how important it is to pray and seek God's will for me in all things; and to not forget to examine my attitude and motives.

@TMK

In the example you provided how do you distinguish between showing love by "lavishly patronizing" their business and not cosigning their lifestyle? What message would you be sending and how would the gay couple know the difference? Has this worked for you in the past?

I hear you Keith. This is a tough one. Believe me I as much as anyone am so saddened how a very small minority of individuals have taken so much of our culture hostage. There is great organization and militism in that movement.

I read recently a comment that when anorexia became a huge topic after Karen Carpenter died how there was great awareness and push for people who have this condition (which is a condition of mistaken body image) to get psychological and medical help. But with people with transgender issues (mistaken body image) it is celebrated and heralded as normal.

I am just not sure what kind if a witness it is to those folks when Christians do things like this. In other words, how must this make them feel about Christians and the God they say they represent.

Jesus told us to love people and leave the results to Him. It might be loving to boycott Target- I just don't know. Obviously we are to protect our children and not expose them to perversion. The risk of that is likely extremely low particularly if you are with your child in the restroom. But there is some risk nonetheless.

I don't have answers-- only questions. But I do know the typical Christian response to such issues in the past 20 years or so has failed miserably. After all, look where our society is. It is worse not better.

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Jasmine-

It would have to be a lot of Christians doing it- not just a couple. Like a whole church after Sunday service. Soon the owners would wonder "why are they doing this?" It would have a better effect than knowing Christians are avoiding (judging) them. "Heaping coals on their head" means it may bring their sin and shame to light. This could lead either to repentance or further hardening.

It is purely a hypothetical- I have never been in such a situation.

Let me ask this. What if Jesus was here walking with us and he said "I'd like some bread". He sees this hypothetical bakery and says "they sell bread- lets go in here." I say "Master we can't go in there because the owners are gay." What would Jesus say to me, based on what he is recorded as saying in similar situations in scripture?

EDIT: I might add that if we were with Jesus and we came across a pervert abusing a child, we would likely see a side of Jesus we may not expect. Millstones come to mind.

Maybe it’s time to stop asking what Jesus would do in every situation. Many of us think we have Jesus pegged what kind of car He’d drive, what kind of political party He’d join, and so on. But the fact is, we really don’t know what He’d do in this or many other situations. He had a habit of overturning people’s expectations and tables. I will go out on a theological limb here, and say there is ample reason to suspect that Jesus would not be nearly as compliant as maybe some suggests. Jesus was very jealous for His Father’s reputation. When the Temple departed from its original purpose of being a house of prayer for all nations and instead became a den of robbers, Jesus was outraged. It wasn’t because He had scruples against money, but because this sinful system was obscuring God’s holy character. The Father’s name, rather than being hallowed, was being profaned. Jesus didn’t meekly go along with this sacrilege. He overturned the tables.

Jesus, of course, also defined marriage as exclusively between one man and one woman, "from the beginning.” He performed his first miracle, turning water into wine at Cana in Galilee, at a wedding. There was no moral question mark attached to this event, because marriage is good in itself good for the man and woman who become "one flesh,” good for the children who are expected as a matter of course to result from this union, and good because of the picture it provides of the relationship between Christ and His church. Homosexual unions, even those called marriages, provide none of these benefits, and in fact would obscure them, keeping people from seeing God’s best. Homosexual unions certainly don’t strengthen marriage. Jesus strongly opposed anything that would undermine marriage that is, the union of one man and one woman. He disallowed divorce except for marital unfaithfulness. Though He was extremely gentle with sexual sinners such as the Samaritan woman and the woman caught in adultery, Jesus was clear that such behavior was unacceptable, telling the latter, "Go, and sin no more.”

@TMK

I think you have a false dichotomy because I walked with a gay person for a number of years. The issue was never the fact that he was gay. The issue was he needed to be Born Again. He shared a lot of things with me but I never felt led to focus on his homosexuality. If you get stuck on homosexuality it's like going down the rabbit hole because people can change a behavior even a lifestyle and still go to hell. So you don't focus on that. While I understand what you're trying to say, what you're describing would only encourage them in their homosexual lifestyle IMO. At least the ones I know would have taken it that way. So it's not a good way to witness Christ. Instead the Lord told me to open up my life to this person and welcome him in. It was amazing. God was steadily blowing that man's mind. After six years he got Saved. It really showed me the power of everyday life in Christ. God looks very attractive to others when we just do us in Him!

So I think you have to be careful that your actions don't have an unintended outcome based on faulty perception. People need to know whose you are and what stand for. It's up to us to tell them and then invite them into our lives. So this is not about gays or trangenders. This doesn't just involve Christians even though Christians were the ones to sound this particular alarm.. Sure I think the spiritual component is always there but this is primarily about practical SAFETY, and I don't know why that is so hard for some of you to grasp. Should I as a woman/mother just sit back and say nothing because I'm a Christians?

Jasmine, I totally believe that God has placed some folks in lives of others to witness to them about Jesus Christ. Please remember, we all are not called to do this, this is why God chooses certain folks for certain things in life. I personally know I would not be able to be around a gay person very long, why? because I feel it might compromise my relationship with the Lord, and of course God already knows this, and that's why it's not my calling.

@MrBillPro

That's okay brother. No blame No shame. Do YOU in God. I think that's all He really wants us to do anyways :)

It's ok to love folks, it's ok to witness to everyone if you feel the calling. One thing we all need to be aware of, old sluefoot, is a very crafty character, don't allow him to get you to feeling sorry for folks, thinking they are caught up in a lifestyle they don't want to be in. I will say this, it would absolutely take a special calling, and a heap of spiritual discernment, prayer and fasting, to be able to be around a man that is having sex with another man. I would say a person needs to stay in solid prayer and fasting for a while before taking on such a challenge. I'm as far as the east from the west, to be able to even entertain the thought of witnessing to a man sleeping with another man, and again, I know God knows this.

I am not big on boycotts. I had never really given much thought about it until the whole chick fil a thing a while back. I think they put off a snobby jerk vibe. Kinda like Pharisees who didn't want to do certain things because it would make them unclean and unable to eat the Passover. Imagine if Jesus was a boycotter. Most of the stories in the gospels wouldn't exist. I believe that there are times where we as followers of Christ are called out of our morale position to meet the need and minister to someone who is broken and hurting. For example i do not believe in abortion. However, if a woman in my community had an abortion should we not minister to her because we are against abortion? For every abortion there is the murder of an unborn child yes but there is also a woman who is lost, broken, and very likely hurting from this experience. We as followers of Christ must step out of our morale position and act in the love of Christ!

I guess I am a tad confused about the women's restroom thing. Don't all women's restrooms have stalls?

Presumably, a biological woman in a men's bathroom would also have to use a stall.

I suspect we have all been in a public restroom with a transgender and never knew it.

Obviously these are just practical questions.

awakened.....If people are boycotting Target because of their openness to LGBT people then go ahead and boycott Apple products because their CEO is openly gay.

I don't want my tone to come across harsh but a women's bathroom sign isn't exactly some impentrable force. People keep talking about safety but if someone wants to harm someone the bathroom sign isn't going to stop them. I could be wrong but I think all of this is a slight over reaction. Not trying to upset anyone but there are most def more important things to give our time and attention too. Much love

True Josh-

We have much more to worry about from family and friends.

90% of child abusers are known to the victim and/or their family. Usually the abuser is a trusted person who the family would never expect to commit such an atrocity. A primary and glaring example is the RCC abuse scandal.

www.d2l.org

Jeff, some Christians are hard headed, the best way for them to get the message, is to let them experience this first hand. This whole bathroom deal is an abomination, and anyone Christian that wants to water it down, in my opinion is not a Christian.

Yes I am a parent to a 4 month old. And Bill not Christian? Really? So may faith has nothing to do with belief in Christ and is based on how I react to "abominations"?

Joshua, as I said "in my opinion" I have the right to my opinion, but it's just my opinion, not the worlds. Maybe I sound like a uncompromising Christian, well I am.

Sure am Jeff though my kids are grown. I have young grandkids however.

I would never have allowed my kids (or grandkids) to go into a public bathroom by themselves. If anything ever would have seemed "strange" at all we would not go in, although I cannot remember that actually happening.

I personally have never seen a pervert in a public bathroom (that was acting like a pervert). In these here parts (NC) a pervert acting like a pervert in a public bathroom is taking his well-being into his own hands because he would likely be in for a beat-down. Like I said in a previous post we might be very surprised to see how Jesus would react if he caught a pervert molesting a child. Throwing over tables would pale in comparison.

Somehow what I have said has been twisted. I am not against these bathroom bills. Here in NC we are a main focus right now. Many businesses have halted expansions to new facilities in the state over HB 2. Various performers like Springsteen and Pearl Jam have cancelled concerts over it (I could care less about this). My question was simply whether a boycott is the best Christian response. It may be- I don't really plan on going to Target but I rarely shopped there anyway. I am NOT arguing that we should not have a problem with perverts in the bathrooms. Obviously we should.

What gets me is the hypocrisy of companies like PayPal who have halted expansion in NC because of HB 2 but readily do business in countries like Saudi Arabia that execute homosexuals.

EDIT: I am a tad concerned that the focus on these bathroom issues is taking the focus off where child abuse usually happens. Like I said the vast majority of abusers are known by the family. I guarantee that there are many many parents who are freaking out over these bathroom issues whose children are being abused by a family friend or relative. That is simply a sad statistical reality. "Stranger danger" is by far less likely. However, that does NOT mean we should ignore the realities of stranger danger for heavens sake.

Todd, swapping gears here a bit, do you agree that these folks are " and I'll be nice about what I call them" mentally challenged? If so why would we want these folks anywhere near us or our families?

I don't Bill! What gave you the idea that I did?

Nothing Todd, it was just a general question, sorry I did not say that in the beginning.

"Homosexuals corrupt the Word of God by changing His truth to a lie” (Romans 1:25).

"Homosexuals are filled with all unrighteousness…wickedness… and maliciousness” (Romans 1:29).

"Homosexuals are haters of God…proud…boasters…inventors of evil things…unmerciful…implacable…and without understanding” (Romans 1:30).

I certainly understand that.

But 90% of the perverts are among people you (generic you, not you specifically) know.

I feel the word tolerance has gone to far among news media, entertainment industry, left leaning politicians, gay activists, and other liberal people and some Christians. Yes, tolerance is a good thing and we should all practice tolerance, and try to live in peace with others whose beliefs differ from our own. However, for Christians, we can only be tolerant of others beliefs and actions to the point where they do not compromise Christian doctrinal principles found in the Bible.

Did the Lord give us a spirit of fear or a measure of faith?

The Lord has blessed me with 6 boys, one driving, one still in diapers and one potty training with three in the middle at 8,9,10 respectively and honestly while I don't like it (transgender bathrooms) and can certainly agree it's not good or godly, it honestly wouldn't be an exercise of faith (for me) to boycott and would certainly be a fear based activity. So if it's not in faith it's sin (for me).

If people wanna boycott, go for it... Just leave Jesus out of it cause it has nothing at all to do with His kingdom which is His concern. If we chase every rabbit that runs by we will not be advancing the kingdom.

Incidentally in the 1st century Roman Empire they in fact had public bathrooms that both genders used simultaneously and if it wasn't a big enough concern for Holy Spirit to include this in the scriptures, why is it so big a deal to us now?
Is it because we spend more time feeding on the world than on Christ and because we ingest this sewage we are becoming more like it by concerning ourselves with it?

Didn't Jesus say He was sending out sheep among wolves and to be as wise as a serpent but as harmless as doves?

Honestly I don't fear for the safety of my children nor do I worry about them, my Lord and savior told me not to and that He has got this and call me crazy but,..... I believe him+:)

Question for Jeff and Todd. Are we as Christians supposed to be gathered together in our own camp, to pray for these homosexuals? Or, are we supposed to be split and some of us over there in the homosexuals camp, telling them it's ok, we agree we should compromise on the bathroom deal that's it's no big deal? I guess because I was raised up under a fire and brimstone no compromising Baptist pastor, I don't know how to tolerate, or compromise things that don't line up with the word of God. Did God tolerate, or compromise sodom and gomorrah? I would just like to see where tolerance to homosexual activities was taught in the Bible, that would help me personally.

jeff wrote: "So in that case, nothing else matters & don't worry about anything & just go with it?

Fallacious argumentation/point IMHO. Irrelevant. That's like saying I know now rapists are encouraged to go to the bus stop to rape people, but 90% of rapes happen at home, so just go to the busstop & don't worry about it, or something (an imperfect analogy, but the parallel type line of logic you're applying)."
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You must have missed what I wrote a few posts down:

""Stranger danger" is by far less likely. However, that does NOT mean we should ignore the realities of stranger danger for heavens sake."

Hey Bill-

Tolerance is the wrong word. We shouldn't tolerate sin- absolutely not. Especially in our own hearts.

Jesus did not tolerate sin, but he did not avoid sinners.

At a church I used to attend a group of women in the church visited the dressing rooms in local strip clubs. They made little gift baskets for the girls, got to know them and led some to Christ and helped them leave the business, which unfortunately can be lucrative. These church women were not tolerating the sin, but they were not judging either. They simply went to where these sinners were on their turf, so to speak.

There are many Christian women who would not enter a strip club, even to share the love of Jesus. If that is their conviction I can understand. But I guess I admire more the ones with the courage to do so.

Bill,
In my opinion anyone who takes your position is not a Like Christ but a religious Pharisee. But that's just my opinion and I am entitled to my opinion.

Jeff, I was just asking you and Marks opinion on a question. As for as Target goes, I haven't shopped there in a long time, most of my purchases are done on Amazon, that way I can get them at my front door. :-)

Mark, was God against homosexuality? If so I'm in pretty good company, right? Maybe in gods blind much warranted fury against homosexuality He burned sodom and Gomorrah.

Mark, I received your correct number, and you're welcome anytime here to correct me, holler at me, agree with me, it don't matter. I have a very, very, thick skin, some of my best friends become friends because of my standing up against them, and sticking to my guns, when I believed I was right. :-)

Yes! the Bible does say, "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ has forgiven you” (Ephesians 4:32). But in doing so, Jesus never instructs or expects us to be tolerant of compromising God’s Truth found in the Word of God. The Bible actually instructs Christians to take a stand against evil."Therefore, put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then after the battle you will be standing firm” (Ephesians 6:13).

Christians indeed have a personal responsibility to actively defend biblical truth from being distorted by those attempting to call ‘good bad and bad good."Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness, who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter” (Isaiah 5:20). "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on solid rock” (Matthew 7:24).

I would remind all gay people who try to defend their sinful sexual lifestyle that whenever Jesus interacted with sinners, which he did quite often, he did not condone their sin”” but he exhorted them to "go and sin no more.”

The problem today is that gays and all other people who practice immoral sexual behavior seem to have no desire to confess their sins and ask God to forgive them, but rather they desire to continue wallowing in their ever increasing frequency of sexual sins, and actually love to flaunt their sin in the media and courts in an attempt to gain societal popularity and legal approval of their sinful behavior.

Yes and mainstream Christianity fails to repent of its idolatries and lukewarmness.

Why do you think the USA is in the moral state that it is in? Because the Church in America is anemic and powerless and probably too far gone.

And I might add that mainstream Christianity chooses easy routes like boycotting. God forbid we actually repent and turn back to God. But that costs a tad too much.

Man, this boycotting post is getting out of hand. We have several guys on here calling people out and I just want to go to the john without folks checking my birth certificate. The last time I checked Christians could be Christians whether they had a birth certificate or not. Some people in Africa don't have birth certificates. I wonder what they could boycott? Huh? Are they not Christians for not having a birth certificate? That's what Billpro would say anyway.

Man alive Jeff I sure don't want you to subject your children to peepers in the restroom either. Gee whiz.

My bigger point is that this "moral majority" stuff that American Christianity has toyed with the past 30 years hasn't done squat. The American church has its eyes on all the evils in society and tries to politicize everything but the paradox is that the evils exist in large part because the church has not turned its eyes back on itself. It is so much easier to point fingers at an evil society than to look honestly in the mirror. And that goes for me as well. But it most assuredly goes for lots and lots of folks.

And if someone says that society would still be just as evil if the Church was running on all cylinders, then why try to change society? Like that irritating song from Frozen- just let it go, let it go.