Are we unleashing a monster?-Donald Trump

I would argue that this current political cycle is a perfect example of form triumphing over substance. The rise of Donald Trump is the rise of form over substance. He merely taps into the mood of the people and says what he needs to say to get elected. He is an amalgam of our personality cult culture and business and now politics. This is the end result of a long process that could only truly find its successful conclusion with the rise of media and especially social media.

Now there have been notable people from the previous century that gives us clues as to how we got here. If we look at Hitler we see a man who could never have arisen without the aid of radio and the camera and of course circumstances. The circumstances are obvious. There was social unrest caused by a financial meltdown. This of course was severely aggravated with the rise of socialism and communism throughout the world. Given these fears and others, the people turned to someone who promised to make Germany great again. Someone who would face the problems of the day head on. Now they knew that he held extreme views but their fears for their present situation overcame any misgivings they may have had for him. The basic premise throughout the ruling classes was ” he would at least sort out the Communists,” which of course he did yet they had unleashed a monster.

Along with all those reasons, Hitler could still not have come to power without the aid of media. Radio of course was the social media of the day. People gathered in their living rooms and listened to his captivating speeches. They also went to the movies and saw such productions as ” Triumph of the Will.” A movie about the rise of the Nazi party that combined music and clippings of speeches and rallies. It is purported to be the greatest propaganda movie of all time and truly shows the power of media, form over substance, to move a whole nation. And of course that power has only increased exponentially over the last 80 years.

The first ever televised interview of two politicians debating was in 1960 and was between Nixon and Kennedy. Unbeknownst to Nixon, Kennedy had the heat turned way up in the studio because he knew Nixon had a tendency to sweat. When they both sat down to debate, Kennedy looked cool and collected while Nixon sweated badly. This had a great effect on the viewing audience. No matter what one of these men you liked, it could easily be argued that Kennedy knew the value of form over substance, it was less about what they were saying and more about how they were coming across to the audience.

In the church we are living, for the greater part, with the triumph of form over substance and the evidence of that is the depth or lack thereof of Christianity in our society. While we have had no Hitlers in the church(many mini ones) we have had many charlatans that used the power of the media and the rules of entertainment to water down the message while promoting themselves. Now three of four generations into an entertainment driven church we are left with a shallowness of showmanship that engages the ” audience.” Tozer writes "The church that can’t worship must be entertained. And men who can’t lead a church to worship must provide the entertainment.” I would argue that all across Christendom in the west we are seeing leaders who lead the people by providing entertainment.

Tragically we have seen that as the world goes so goes the church. Of course it should be the exact opposite, yet here we are. You will hear excuses about staying relevant and keeping up with technology and so on. I personally have nothing against technology but when it becomes an integral part of the "show” on a Sunday morning then you know that the plot has been lost. Today we are being driven by the form and not the substance. The cultural winds have simply taken a hold of the church and the church is being driven along by these winds towards what destination? What is the end for such a church? The complete amalgam of the world with the church. This is a tragedy. The church was supposed to be a counter-culture not a sub-culture.

Yet if there is an enemy that seeks to swallow up the church whole by means of swamping it with the world, he has badly miscalculated. We see in the secular world that given enough frustration the electorate eventually rebel against the establishment that has become corrupt. This election cycle is a perfect example with men like Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. If the world can react against the corruption of the system then even more so good brothers and sisters in Christ. As always Satan will overplay his hand and brothers and sisters will simply leave corrupted institutions behind. The more our enemy overplays his hand the more he drives saints together and actually helps the Scriptures come to pass. Jesus prophesied in John 17 that we should be one just as He and His Father are one. We shall see this come to pass.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ……….And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:(Eph 4:4-13)

Brothers and sisters God is raising up apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers. Not the children of the system that we see today, but genuine saints whose primary goal is the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry and the edifying of the Body until we all come into the unity of the faith. The unity of the faith is the work of God Himself through His Holy Spirit and the spirit of the world that has invaded the church will only drive the saints towards such a unity that will undoubtedly be forged in the fires of persecution. Pursue the substance of God with all of your heart and soul and mind and do not be distracted by shiny things that make a lot of noise and attract attention. The substance of God will triumph over the form of man........bro frank

A lot of people pre-judged Obama as substance over form and that is why as a junior senator with a community organizer background, he was elected. In other words, he talked a good game.

Many people could not judge ahead of time whether he was "form over substance" or "substance over form", but now their eyes are open.

The media went out of their way to help Obama. The opposite is true of Trump, yet not true of Hillary.

Thanks for letting me know ahead of time that Trump is "form over substance".

If that is what you took from that piece Julias, your welcome.....bro Frank

Good words Frank!

And yes, even with Obama, if people were paying attention (most pro-abortion senator voting record ever, always hung with & surrounded by communists, the whole "reverend - oxymoron - Wright thing, etc.) then they knew what was likely the truth. But for the undiscerning Kool-Aid drinkers, he was to be some kind of "savior" or something. And those who actually bought his public "I'm a Christian" after all that. Really? Now people somehow buy it from Trump. Amazing. Not that he "has to be a Christian" but not being deceptive & praying on undiscerning gullible "Christians" would be helpful in trusting them or not.

The church needs Biblical understanding/knowledge, Biblical discernment, wisdom, & the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for sharing,
Jeff

by jeffmar1130 on 2016/4/30 14:23:00

The church needs Biblical understanding/knowledge, Biblical discernment, wisdom, & the Holy Spirit.

So very true.

Jeff writes.....

" Now people somehow buy it from Trump. Amazing. Not that he "has to be a Christian" but not being deceptive & praying on undiscerning gullible "Christians" would be helpful in trusting them or not."

Indeed brother........bro Frank

Yes, But are we just going to be trading one kind of monster for another? Both come across with some narcissistic idealog traits. They just show them differently in different areas through different personalities. That much seems clear, to me anyways.

Yet if there is an enemy that seeks to swallow up the church whole by means of swamping it with the world, he has badly miscalculated. We see in the secular world that given enough frustration the electorate eventually rebel against the establishment that has become corrupt. This election cycle is a perfect example with men like Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. If the world can react against the corruption of the system then even more so good brothers and sisters in Christ. As always Satan will overplay his hand and brothers and sisters will simply leave corrupted institutions behind. The more our enemy overplays his hand the more he drives saints together and actually helps the Scriptures come to pass. Jesus prophesied in John 17 that we should be one just as He and His Father are one. We shall see this come to pass.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ……….And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:(Eph 4:4-13)

Brothers and sisters God is raising up apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers. Not the children of the system that we see today, but genuine saints whose primary goal is the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry and the edifying of the Body until we all come into the unity of the faith. The unity of the faith is the work of God Himself through His Holy Spirit and the spirit of the world that has invaded the church will only drive the saints towards such a unity that will undoubtedly be forged in the fires of persecution. Pursue the substance of God with all of your heart and soul and mind and do not be distracted by shiny things that make a lot of noise and attract attention. The substance of God will triumph over the form of man

I believe the emphasis of Frank's article is that the current political scene is a "type" of where the church in some ways is. May we have eyes to see where we are and step out in the giftings of God. It is not a day to be spoon feed truth, rather we must be lovers and seekers of truth ourselves lest we be deceived.

by sermonindex on 2016/4/30 19:07:34

May we have eyes to see where we are and step out in the giftings of God. It is not a day to be spoon fed truth, rather we must be lovers and seekers of truth ourselves lest we be deceived.

Amen!

Amen, Wayne. Politics=Carnality

Bro Greg writes........

"I believe the emphasis of Frank's article is that the current political scene is a "type" of where the church in some ways is. May we have eyes to see where we are and step out in the giftings of God. It is not a day to be spoon feed truth, rather we must be lovers and seekers of truth ourselves lest we be deceived."

Brother, that is exactly the point behind this article. The story of Trump and his rise and the triumph of form over substance was simply an analogy for what has happened and is happening in the church. Form is triumphing over substance and the waters are so shallow now because of it that it is in danger of drying up completely...............bro Frank

Bro Wayne writes.........

" I keep telling my pastor that our fellowship needs a recovery group for Politics Addicts. Why is it so hard to put that junk out of our minds? and so easy to get caught up in debates about which godless buffoon is "best for the country?" And if we are so gullible that we still buy into the "Republican vs. Democrat" narrative, how will we hold our ground when "strong delusion" comes on the world? "

I could not have said it better myself. Amen brother..........bro Frank

Form over substance in biblical terms=

2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Haven't you already been restored to Christ?

1 Peter 4:17-18
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Is the USA a picture of the fallen away church or the true church of God? The visible or invisible church? What we see in the news regarding religious institutions or are you just saying, "if the shoe fits, then wear it."

It is a sweeping indictment of all Christians in the USA, don't you think?
Even Jesus did not do that as He had seven different things to say to seven different churches.

I see horrible mixture in the religious system, but I don't accuse my brothers and sisters of such behavior.

Just curious what fellowships you are looking at to make such a generalization.

by rookie on 2016/5/1 13:41:25
Scripturally, the title is somewhat errant. It is God who selects the leaders. The people have nothing to do with it. He places men in authority over His creation.

Ahhh, but many in the Christian Church think God selects leaders through them, thus God is selecting them. Makes for a nice syllogism.

Christ raises up authorities.
Christ and His Body are one.
His Body is raising up the authorities.

This idea of form over substance promoted only looks to what can be seen. It does not look to what God is working out.

Just a thought...

Wow, someone else understands this. Here we all are matching up world events with scriptures and comparing the world with the Church (as a type) yet God may be doing something altogether different in His Church.

Ron writes..........

" The title of the message is 'The USA a Picture of the Church'. Highly recommended listening."

Good point Ron. I think if anyone has an eye to see, they will look more closely at the title I chose. Those who love to argue and have threads closed down would undoubtedly not look too closely at the title, and then really ignore the content and come up with the wrong conclusion. The monster that we have unleashed is the world that has invaded the church. A church that now uses the world and its techniques, a church that has been swamped by worldliness. It is the triumph of the world over the church, form over substance that I wrote about. Donald Trump and Hitler were just my analogy. Of course, just like parables, you would have to have an eye to see it. And before anyone rushes in, please note that I used a little c in reference to church. I was not talking about the Church or the Body of Christ, for the gates of hell shall never prevail against us. I could care less who the next president is, I have called for saints not to vote for a long time now. God knows and whoever we get will undoubtedly be a judgement upon us...............bro Frank

I'm confused. Are we critiquing the worldly, false, counterfeit church (which we can do till the cows come home). Or are we critiquing the true Church of God who refuses to come out of the Babylonian religious system? The babylonian religious will copy the world. Why does that surprise us?

Jesus has this to say to HIS people:

"Come out of her, my people, and do not be partakers of her sins and her plagues".

Julias writes

"I'm confused."

Let me try and help Julias. The Body of Christ is scattered throughout Christendom ( Christendom, everything that calls itself by the name of Jesus) Hope that helps brother...........bro Frank

Ok, so you are critiquing Christendom not the Body of Christ.

Thank you.

Hi Keith,

When you put something in quotes, you are referring to what the identified author wrote. I was commenting on the content of the sermon that the brother identified " The USA a picture of the Church." It would run along the same theme as the article.............bro Frank

PS The title was designed to make people think. That is why after the question "Are we unleashing a monster?" there is a dash and then the name Donald Trump. In the article I also mention Hitler and Nixon and Kennedy. The article is about form triumphing over substance in the church. There is the secular example and then there is the point of the article. We live in shallow Christian times because form has and has been for many decades, been swamping churches up and down the land until we have arrived here and now. For the most part a Christless Christianity and a crossless Christianity, in short, a cultural Christianity which is long on form and very short on substance. Hope that helps.

Julias writes..........

"Ok, so you are critiquing Christendom not the Body of Christ."

Yes, but as always, Christendom is a cautionary tale to all of us. We all must beware when we stand lest we fall. The draw of the world, the allure of its influence is growing daily especially with the rise of technology that for many brings it right into the heart of households with social media and 24/7 cable news and so on..............bro Frank

Jeff writes..........

" God used Nebuchadnezzar to accomplish what God wanted to do in Daniel's generation."

Indeed, and rejecting his edict was a major part of the story of Daniel and the three Hebrew children. They spoke truth to power by refusing to bow down to the gods of this world.........bro Frank

That is what I thought, too AlmostHome.

Appolus, on your other answer to me, regarding the "draw of the world and allure of its influence", Amen, brother.

Keith writes...........

" I'm afraid your intention with the title flew right over my head, which I'm sure is my fault"

Its not your fault brother, its me trying to be too clever...........bro Frank

Hi Keith,

Yes my title could have included many people, but it was my article and it was my title :) The difference between Bernie Sanders/Clinton and Trump is that Sanders and Clinton are both from the political establishment. Their prominence was arrived at through the system. Trump is an outsider and has no political experience and was propelled forward by a media tsunami. He was a better example to me of form over substance...........bro Frank

I thought Trump was propelled through by the masses not the media. I think he has broken all records when it comes to the popular vote. The media seems to bash him every chance they get. Just my observation. We must be watching different stations.

I read where something like 64,000 attack ads have been generated against Trump.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/05/trump-survivor-nevertrumpers-spent-75-7-million-64000-negative-ads-take-trump/

As an interested observer in this year's political circus, it is very interesting, especially the California primary coming up. I think there is a BIG silent majority in that state. We'll see, soon.

Julias, how does the masses know about him? Bottom line is, he has generated almost 2 billion dollars worth of media coverage without really spending any kind of real money, now that is media savvy and media driven.

My article was not about Donald Trump, it is about form triumphing over substance and the rise of the media's influence from the late 30s till now. Tv news, especially 24/7 cable news has dramatically polarized the country, and when you add social media to the mix, you see what we have now. All of that was an analogy, to me, of what has been happening in our churches as form, or style, or presentation, has become so much more important that substance. This is reflected in the depth of Christianity we have in the country at large, a watered down, people friendly, seeker sensitive Christless and crossless and cultural Christianity................bro Frank

My understanding is that he has conducted outdoor and indoor events and the media have followed him. So, yes they give him coverage but they also smear him. I don't know how much he is covered on cable as I only have antenna. He is not covered on basic channels at all except as a blurb on nightly newscasts. But, the media that attend his events (where he takes his message to the people), will post the entire event on YouTube. You would have to let me know if the media posts his entire events on cable since I don't know.

I do agree with you that he is media savvy. The media itself is very superficial and journalists ceased being journalists a long time ago. That definitely fits your "form over substance". They are used nowadays as social engineers to influence the masses. Seems that none of their attacks at marginalizing Trump have worked, though and they are very concerned that they are losing their manipulative influence over the masses through emotionalism and deception.

And yes, Christendom is superficial, too. It seems many so-called shepherds are also social engineers, seeking to manipulate through emotionalism and deception. I do see your analogy.

Christianity like the world is moving towards what is best for the global community regardless of the truth.

Jeremiah 9:3

And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies:
but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth;
for they proceed from evil to evil,
and they know not me, saith the Lord.

I know Trump is not your subject, but I will just say this. If he doesn't do what he says he will do, he will probably end up as the most disdained President, ever. And with the recent string of presidents that is a difficult task. From a purely humanistic point of view, if he does half of what he says, I understand his followers will be happy since he has promised so much. Is it too early to tell if he is form over substance? Well, all candidates are in the courting stage now (all full of promises and loving words). Let's see their character during the marriage.

I agree we need smart people in the white house, but I'll take godly over smart every time.

"I think it is time to get prepared for witness even if it means prison or death."

Amen..........bro Frank

Good word, narrowpath.

thought you were going to go on a hiatus for a while.

guess you did, 5 days or a week.....that's a hiatus.

now you can continue your mission on this forum, enjoy yourself.

Neil,
Brother, you need to remember the apostolic commands throughout the scripture to be kind, gracious, & let your love be evident to all. Heck, Jesus even commanded us to love our enemies. I forget who said it now, but I saw recently this quote:

"If they despise you, let it be for your position & not your disposition."

Just a loving reminder from a friendly voice.

In Christ,
Jeff

"consider on how the early church interacted when they confronted each other, I believe in the original it was a pretty heated exchange, I do'not think it was at all politically correct."

Yes I agree the apostles did confront one another, but I highly doubt their exchanges were anything like the way brother Neil spoke to brother Julius - dripping with sarcasm and open contempt. And if any of the apostles made a mistake and spoke to another brother with such a spirit, then I am sure the other apostles would have rebuked them in love.

(edited to be crystal clear)

Yeah, amen

Quote: "consider on how the early church interacted when they confronted each other, I believe in the original it was a pretty heated exchange, I do'not think it was at all politically correct."

it might have been a "pretty heated exchange" - but so what? Are you now saying we can all behave in this manner and it is 100% pleasing to God?

In Kadesh Barnea the congregation took up stones against Joshua.
Does this prove to you that this is a God approved behavior and we can therefore do the same today?
Shouldn't we aim for a bit more godliness? Lord help us !

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God. Romans 12:2

"I rather like the example contrasting Peter and Paul to be honest, because it show cases 2 strong personalities coming at a circumstance from completely opposite sides. Your example of Kadesh Barnea was out right rebellion. All that said, I think we forget that we are all works in progress and none of us have arrived yet, at least not in this life. In many Christian circles it seems like we would rather be more robotic than human and because of that we come off as being less than authentic. As to be pleasing to God? I am not altogether sure there is anything we can really do aside from His grace and the presentation of Christ in us that can please Him to be honest. The true story of history is seen in heaven as,"look what God has been able to accomplish through such flawed beings". And while we all have knowledge of scripture like the Rom 12:2 one you sited, are we all honestly walking 100% in that one...all of us...some of us, probably very few of us. I believe it is difficult to write in a forum to one another accurately because we can not see each other face to face and we have not had to chance to break bread together or placed in a position to share one another's burdens and prayer concerns, we have never laughed with each other nor have we cried with each other over some life tragedy. So when I made the comment off of Bro. Neil's post to Julius I was really just noting that in the end He is human and at some point, aren't we all? The same with Peter and Paul."

Amen!

Is there a difference between Godly and religious? I guess what was in my mind when I said I would choose godly over smart is someone who hears God is also receiving divine wisdom.

But, in the end, as rookie said, it is God that raises up "kings". I never would have elevated Obama (neither smart or godly), but God has His purposes.