Rewind and Repeat

Keith thank you for that sermon, l was blessed by it and thought it powerful. It was good to hear holiness preached like that in our times.

I did disagree with him at end, in that he said that people could do their surrendering later. That is something where Satan will come and try to delay us by saying later later, but God's word says Today is the day of our salvation and whenever we feel God moving in us, we should react straight away.

That was a major point during the holiness movement but it was probably misused and too much pressure put on folks. But there should be a warning that any delay at all in our spirits is bad.

I find that present day or in the last 60 years or so, most preachers who are speaking with anointing like Mark, are still lacking in the discernment of previous speakers from true revival times and although their teaching is of benefit, like Poonan and Wilkinson, they are missing the mark on the finer points, and when one is in a place where God is moving powerfully in our lives, there us a great danger of us being misled so although the writings of previous saints is not so easy to read, the ones who taught holiness in revival times is more likely to help us navigate the waters more securely.

So for this reason, l have found much more help from writers such as the early Quakers, Finny some of Wesley, etc but a lot of error since 1950ish. So few since then witness to walking without sinning and it being confirmed by people who knew them.

So sad to hear that Mark's marriage failed though and how Satan got him.

To add.... I think that Mark was wrong when he cancelled appointments with his wife to have a night out, with one of them that he did not even phone her and left her waiting when all it would have taken was a two minute call. God bless her she was patient but who knows whether these things served to disrupt their relationship and over time give her the message that she was not important.

I believe that pride was at the basis of this, as surely he knew someone locally who could have met this person and given them the gospel until he was free to see them the next day. It is always Satan who makes us do things like this - making things seem like urgent and that no-one lese can do them.

"I think that Mark was wrong when he cancelled appointments with his wife to have a night out, with one of them that he did not even phone her and left her waiting when all it would have taken was a two minute call."

Sister how do you know these details of his private life...just curious?

I am assuming he mentions these things in his sermon? Even so I do not think it is healthy for us to be discussion the intricacies of another mans private life on a public forum. And it is especially wrong for us to assume anything about his failed marriage. We know none of the details and even if we did we should not discuss them publicly.

I hope I am not being too harsh...and for what it is worth, on a general note, it is true that satan will exploit any and all weaknesses in our lives, especially as it pertains to maintaining a balance between home life and ministry.

Mark he said these things and I believe that it is good for us to learn from the mistakes of others. I did say that we do not know the full facts.

Understood sister and I agree with you, we can and should learn from the mistakes of others.

On your general note about marriage. It is very easy for those in ministry or business or busy about many things to neglect their wife and children. This is a common thing today and leads to many divorces. I wish it were not so. I have always maintained that if a man is going to take a wife for himself then he must love and care for her as a true "husbandman" would do with the vine. Some wives will just never change because they refuse to come to the Lord and submit to Him in the first place. But a loving husband who is in tune with the Lord can by the grace of God help to turn around even a marriage that has been broken by infidelity. Love is the key, love is the answer...because love never fails.

Having said that I do understand that some people are just unable to continue in a marriage after infidelity. I do not know what I would do in such a case and I pray that I will never have to face such a horrible situation.

Not every situation about infidelity is cut and dried and the wronged spouse is never to blame for their partner cheating on them. But in some cases, taking better care of our spouse could perhaps have prevented tragedy. If a man neglects his wife...and I mean really neglects her until she is just the "help-meet"...little more than an unpaid servant at home and a baby factory...then it is little wonder that satan is able to mess with that woman's head.

On the other side of the coin, I have seen men who have been abused by an unsubmissive, unruly wife who hen-pecks their husband to death and never gives him a moments rest. He is never good enough and is never appreciated by his wife for providing for their family. Satan will take such a twisted marriage and bring enormous temptation before such a man.

Anyway not even sure why I am rambling, perhaps the Lord wanted me to write such things this morning for the benefit of someone going through a difficult marriage right now?

EDIT: I apologize for hi-jacking this thread. Keith, would you like me to delete this and start a new thread about marriage?

This is true brother and it has always been a common problem that preachers will neglect their families and even go on missions oversees when they have young children, even the most popular preachers, but they are displaying pride.

God can replace anyone who has heavy family commitments and send single people. If anyone chooses the married life and parenthood they must fulfill their responsibilities at home first.Their children will not need them forever and their wives will cope much more easily when they don't have children to attend to.

While I agree that family is a "first calling" to a husband & father, by these parameters you have set up, many of the greatest missionaries of all times were in the wrong (which I don't think is the case). Men like William Carey (India), Adonirum Judson (Myanmar), John Wesley, and on and on. While our responsibility to our family is great & of primary importance, the whole "he who loves his father, brother, mother, etc. more than me must hate his father, brother, sister, wife child (etc.) & take up his cross & follow me". And then there's the "let him who has a wife (& children) live as though he had none..." Etc. So it's a balance & God's calling in both areas (family & ministry) is key. Saying single people should go & married people stay is neither Biblical (-ly balanced) nor historical. The apostles were married with children too.
The question is of priority & not neglecting any of the Lord's callings for the man of God. Taken too far either way, it can just be human reasoning IMHO.
God Bless,
Jeff

And my statements were just in relation to the recent broad-brush statements in posts, not the OP - FYI

While there is much to learn from general principles and advice on how to balance life, there is little to be gained by examining the marriages of others unless they themselves open up and become brutally honest and transparent.

Along those lines I have never read anything from Tozer himself as to whether he would have liked to live differently with his wife, but I did read less than flattering comments from her about her late husband. Actually in a way they were a backhanded compliment. She said after she remarried that she was sure her new husband loved her but with regard to A.W. she was not so sure, but she knew beyond doubt that he did love the Lord. Not sure if that is an exact quote but something like that.

Have you ever read Adonirum Judson's letter he wrote to ask his future father in law for his wife's hand in marriage? It's pretty amazing (& foreign to our modern way of thinking). You can probably find it online, but it's in the book "To the Golden Shore" I know. And William Carey's wife certainly resented him for answering God's calling to India. She lost her mind, tried to stab him, & died in bitter resentment not long after. And God gave Carey a new wife who loved & supported him & was on board with sacrifice for the sake of Christ & the Gospel. You can read about it or watch the movie "Candle in the Dark." Or look at the heart and writings of both Jim Elliot & his wife, Elizaebeth Elliot. Amazing grace there. Or the ladies who lost their husbands to Islamic murderers a few years back in Turkey who forgave them on public TV & MANY Muslims cited that as an initial catalyst in coming to Christ afterwards. So there's two sides to this issue for sure. Both jobs/responsibilities should be tended to by a husband/father, but I reject the whole "singles should GO & married men stay". And so does scripture & church missionary history.

Of course if a wife opposes God's calling where she could accompany her husband, then she is in the wrong. It is more the father of young children that l have problems with.

Men are just instruments and it is not the person who is important. And just because God was able to use these men does not make it right

The less said about Wesley's marriage the better.

I know men like Adonirum Judson, William Carey, etc. had multiple small children. Some lost children (& wife's) on the field - FYI.

And it doesn't make it wrong either. That's why I posted the scriptures I did

But took them out of context.

Mark 10 (account is also in Luke & Matthew)
23And Jesus xlooked around and said to his disciples, x"How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter xthe kingdom of God!” 24And the disciples xwere amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, x"Children, xhow difficult it is to enter xthe kingdom of God!25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter xthe kingdom of God.” 26And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to him, "Then who can be saved?” 27Jesus xlooked at them and said, x"With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.” 28Peter began to say to him, "See, xwe have left everything and followed you.” 29Jesus said, "Truly, I say to you, xthere is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and xfor the gospel, 30 who will not receive a hundredfold xnow in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, xwith persecutions, and in xthe age to come eternal life. 31 But xmany who are first will be last, and the last first.”

Luke 14
The Cost of Discipleship

25Now great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and said to them, 26 x"If anyone comes to me and xdoes not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, xyes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. 27 xWhoever does not xbear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. 28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not xfirst sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ 31 Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not xsit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. 33 xSo therefore, any one of you who xdoes not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.

Salt Without Taste Is Worthless

34 x"Salt is good, xbut if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored?35 It is of no use either for the soil or for the manure pile. It is thrown away. xHe who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

1 Corinthians 7
29This is what I mean, brothers: xthe appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,30and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy xas though they had no goods, 31and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For xthe present form of this world is passing away.

Now these (& other passages, as well as the very apostolic witness "martyrias" lives of the apostles themselves, the early church, many of the great missionaries of history, etc.) maybe don't mean as an excuse for ANYTHING & EVERYTHING or rejected the role of father/husband as unto the Lord as well, but they mean something at face value, so we have to reconcile Ephesians 5 which says for husbands to "love your wife & lay down your life for her as Christ did the church" & "if anyone comes after me and does not hate his wife, he cannot be my disciple." That means we should love our families ALOT & lead them as Christ would/did, but not at the priority over God's calling, Christ, & the Gospel too. Balance of truth found in scripture.

by jeffmar1130 on 2016/5/25 16:15:49

Mark 10 (account is also in Luke & Matthew)
23And Jesus xlooked around and said to his disciples, x"How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter xthe kingdom of God!” 24And the disciples xwere amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, x"Children, xhow difficult it is to enter xthe kingdom of God!25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter xthe kingdom of God.” 26And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to him, "Then who can be saved?” 27Jesus xlooked at them and said, x"With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.” 28Peter began to say to him, "See, xwe have left everything and followed you.” 29Jesus said, "Truly, I say to you, xthere is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and xfor the gospel, 30 who will not receive a hundredfold xnow in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, xwith persecutions, and in xthe age to come eternal life. 31 But xmany who are first will be last, and the last first.”

Seems a verse was omitted.

Jesus clarified that it is not those who have riches but those who trust in them. I believe this scripture was excluded and it is the key.

Mar 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that TRUST IN RICHES to enter into the kingdom of God!

???

There no verses excluded/omitted. To keep it simple, maybe I should have just copied verses 29 onward. The point being what Jesus said about no one leaving children, houses, lands, family, etc. ...... And I posted other related scriptures as well afterwards. But I didn't omit/exclude any scriptures. I posted everything in order. I didn't post whole chapters or anything, but the totality of the passages I did quote explain my whole point. Jesus expected us not to not value or minister to our family, but that He & His Gospel were to be in an unhindered FIRST priority to EVERYTHING, yes, even mother, father, brother, sister, wife, children, etc. The great missionaries of old knew this (as did the apostles themselves), as does the whole sum counsel of God's Word bear this out.

I just cut and pasted from the ESV. Maybe you're looking at a KJV or NIV? I don't know. I do know ESV is an essentially literal translation, being a "Word for Word" translation, not a "thought for thought" translation, which is my personal preference. Either way, verse 29 onward is "related" to the previous verses, but also in there does Jesus expand what He is discussing beyond riches alone.

Yes, I now see where the ESV actually omitted the verse.

I don't think ESV omitted any verses. It is a "Word for Word" translation. What that likely means is that the other translation you're looking at (KJV? NLT? NIV?) probably is adding in what they thought the writer "meant" or "intended". ESV doesn't have ANY omitted verses to my knowledge.

Very interesting findings.

The following verses are omitted from the ESV Bible in their entirety but are found in the Textus Receptus Greek New Testament, the text which underlies the New Testament of Reformation-era translations:

Matthew 17.21, 18.11, 23.14
Mark 7.16, 9.44, 9.46, 11.26, 15.28
Luke 17.36, 23.17
John 5.4
Acts 8.37, 15.34, 28.29
Romans 16.24
1 John 5.7 (the famous Trinitarian reading known as the Johannine Comma is omitted without any footnote to explain its omission)

Oh boy. Looks like the KJV controversy next up.

Keith:
Thanks for the post, I listened to the sermon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMQ648kpGhs&index=4&list=WL
and it was very encouraging to me. It is an important message and I recommend it to everyone especially those who need a breakthrough in their Christian walk.

Brenda:
I also do not agree with the part about his wife. I believe God does not tempt/upset/hurt any of his children through the good deeds of his good people.
Luke 17:1
"Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!"
James 1:13
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.."

I believe the speaker was deceived, or not willing to admit a sin, when referred to an urgent matter.
"It is always Satan who makes us do things like this - making things seem like urgent and that no-one lese can do them."
I thought the same thing.

The quoted verses:
Mark 10:23-31 and Luke 14:25-33
These verses according to the context refer to someone becoming a disciple and rearranging his priorities leaving worldly things behind. It was not intended to be an excuse for someone who already has God in the first place in his life to disrespect his wife or anyone else.

Favorite sermon:
There is a book (articles) by Andrew Murray with a similar topic called "Absolute Surrender". It also can greatly change how we view things, just as this sermon does, and it is one of my favorites.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1800
There is an audio version of it also:
https://librivox.org/absolute-surrender-by-andrew-murray/
Zsuzsanna

I personally don't want to get involved in any more "controversial threads", especially if the discussion involves the potential for some to bear down in the place of "I must be right" (which I also am not immune to, so I will avoid that like the plague). I have looked at detail over the years into the KJV, NLT, ESV, NASB, NIV (older & newer form), etc. & have no interest in getting in the weeds on this one. I especially don't want to talk "Textus Recepticus" with the "KJV Only" crowd (or the "I'm not KJV ONLY, I just defend it like I am" crowd) either. The ESV is as solid a "Word for Word" translation as there is. Most all non-KJV Only scholars agree on this. I'm not getting in the weeds on this one. Sorry.
God Bless,
Jeff

by bearmaster on 2016/5/26 9:17:55

Oh boy. Looks like the KJV controversy next up.

You mean ESV controversy? No, I have no appetite for it.

FYI - I honestly didn't listen to the OP sermon, nor was commenting on that.

I merely was responding to the broad brush general statements that I (& scripture & church history) do not agree with. While there may be error in the OP being addressed, the right Biblical solution is never an equal & opposite error on the other side that has no Biblical or historical balance. The answer to apparent so called Biblical contradictions is always "more Bible". The full sum of the whole counsel of scripture.

While that passage/s (& others like it/them) does speak much on leaving worldly goods behind, you have to be intentionally ignoring the very clear statements about family (even wife specifically) or something? We are to never neglect our wife/family, while at the same time we are never to neglect the Lord, His Christ, His Gospel, His calling, etc. If the two seemingly "conflict", then what you're proposing is "choose family first", & I contend that the scriptures are crystal clear that our love & obedience doesn't contradict it, but "trumps" all. Jesus, the apostles, early church, much of the modern worldwide church, etc. were/are crystal clear on this both in doctrine & example.

No one said anything about disrespecting their wife (I sure didn't). But the issue is loving wife, children, brethren, neighbor, lost, etc. but all in secondary submission to our primary "first love" of Jesus preimmenently. This is what scripture clearly teaches in balance, doctrine & example.

Art Katz said one time in a message called "Daughters of Sarah" (based on the NT principle in scripture of this & being in submission, a husbands headship role in the family, a wife's Biblically ordained right response, etc.) a man & his wife came forward at the end of a meeting. The wife said "my husband thinks we are to sell our successful business & move our family to the mission field! I told him as soon as God tells me, then I'll go!" Art gracefully, "in an understanding way considering the wife as the weaker vessel" said, "o dear precious daughter: if the Lord has spoken to your husband, He has already spoken to & concerning you. God appointed Him over you under Himself." Our modern feminist cultural thinking from childhood doesn't like that, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Again, I'm not speaking to the OP & message AT ALL. Merely the "reactionary" over statements of broad brush generalizations that followed (that I already highlighted, particularly the Unbiblical in-historical view that missions should be for the single people & not the family). David Wilkerson preached & taught against this error in thinking. John Piper does. David Platt does. Art Katz did. The very lives of William Carey, Afonirum Judson, & countless others did. The teachings & examples of Jesus, the apostles, the early church, the modern historical church the world around, etc. speaks volumes otherwise. To emphatically presume to teach & say otherwise is not Biblical & a careless opinion & poor extraction of truth from scripture IMHO,

Okay the brother who started this thread asked if there were any sermons that we like to listen to on Sermon Index. It seems this thread has gotten off track. Let us honor this brother and get his thread back on track.

There have been several sermons that I have listened to on Sermon Index so it is hard to point out one particular sermon that stands out. Each of them have ministered to me in different ways.

Those that I have listened to more than once are An Oral History of the Anabaptists by Denny Kenniston. Actually I have never gotten through the entire series of about 6 or 7 messages. I always get to the first three. And then get convicted on message 3. Here our brother talks about "galasenheit". That is total surrender to the will of God. Very convicting as well as very encouraging. In that series Denny speaks of persecution in the future. Again a very sobering message.

Also I have benefited from the messages by Art Katz. It goes without saying that his messages are very timely and prophetic.

Perhaps the one message that has stirred my soul as I've listened to it about 3 or 4 times is a message by our brother Brian Long. In this message he speaks of upcoming persecution on the N. American church and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Despite its subject content this is actually a very encouraging message. I was in Atlanta shouting amen and hallelujah when our brother gave this message. Even after two years this message carries a power and an anointing that would benefit any who listen to it.

Trying to listen now to Owen Roberts as he contrasts an experienced centered revival with the word centered revival.

These are some of the SI messages that have a edified and blessed me.

Bro Blaine

Brothers and sisters what are some messages that have stirred your soul from The archives of sermon index?

"You mean ESV Only controversy?.."

Lol. You are really something Julius. I never said (nor did anyone else) anything about "ESV Only". Please Don't try to force feed (false) words into my mouth. I have every (respectable/honorable) translation they make - FYI. I just was saying I prefer the ESV personally & explaining why. Let's not be dramatic, ok?

God Bless,
Jeff

Brothers any messages off Sermon Index that are stirring in your souls?

Edited for additional comment at the end:

"The Judgment seat of Christ" from Leonard Ravenhill is definitely one that sticks out in my memory personally!

Many messages from Art Katz, David Wilkerson, Michael Brown ("Called to Die" sticks out in my mind), Leonard Ravenhill, John Piper (especially on Missions & Evangelism as well as the Holiness & Splendour of God), Paul Washer (on the Gospel, the New Birth, Regeneration, Sin, apostasy, Love, etc.), etc. I also love to read Andrew Murray's books.

These are some of those who had the greatest impact on me personally.

God Bless,
Jeff

I also agree on Brian Long's message on persecution and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Very good. Could Tangibly sense the anointing in that one big time.

Anen Jeff. There is definitely an anointing on brother Brian's message. The persecution of the church and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I remember as he was preaching that message. His church back in Barnstall had the live feed on mute. And they were praying as tge brother was preaching. I believe that's why that message still carries the anointing today

It reminds me so much of the furnace room of Spurgeon. The power in Spurgeon's preaching was not in his rhetorical ability. But it was in those intercessors who were praying for him in the basement where the furnace was.

God grant that other men will be raised up as brother Brian to call out the sleeping church in America to awaken to the urgency of the hour.

Bro Blaine

by AlmostHome on 2016/5/24 19:25:00

I'm listening to a sermon that I've heard quite a few times and I never, ever get tired of! It's called Full Surrender by Mark Greening. I love Mark Greening. He tells the truth without the Fruity Pebbles. There are several sermons that I never get tired of listening to, actually. And that made me think:

Are there any sermons that YOU have enjoyed time and time again? I thought it would be great to have a thread where people could share those sermons that are close to their hearts.

Almosthome, listen to this one.

God Uses Foolish Things - by Jackie Pullinger
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=18861&commentView=itemComments