I love the law - it is my best friend and personal trainer.

It does not seem that long ago when I was so blind and self-righteous. As long as we see ourselves living and doing the best that we can, we are under the law of "I've got to be a good person." Now we sure don't want to be evil, but hidden under all this self-goodness is law, law, and more law. It seems so backwards, but the truth is, the more law, the more we sin. Because, the "Strength of sin is the law" (I Cor. 15:56).

The New Covenant has but one law. The Bible calls it the "Royal Law," the law of love: love God, love neighbor, and love yourself. When all this responsibility to love unconditionally falls on us, our hearts sink; for we honestly must admit to failure. We simply cannot love. Yet, why did we think we should try to be like Christ anyway? We would have to be God to love that way. That is the point! Only God Himself can selflessly love.

What we don't understand is that our human vessel hasn't the capacity to love unconditionally. We were created to contain Mr. Love, Himself; but we were not created to produce it. Love is not a commodity to get, it's not a "how to" self-improvement program or an earned achievement. LOVE is a Person. We humans contain, not produce. When we discover that we are radically replaced by Christ, that "We don't live any longer, Christ lives in us," then we know we live by receiving, and not by achieving.

Freedom means that we are free to, or free not to, because we are led by the Spirit of God. "For as many as are led by the Spirit are the sons of God" (Rom. 8:14); therefore, all the "I should's" and "I ought to's" of the law have no more claim on us. We are "dead to the law" in order that we can be married to another who raised us up from the dead, even our Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 7:4).

As long as you see yourself alive and separate from Christ, you will make a law out of most anything. That is why freedom only comes when you know you are "dead" and crucified with Christ and no longer live; then we know its Christ living in us and manifesting Himself as us.

Romans 6 is a freed self. "Freed" - not "free," made free by identification by faith with His death. A freed self. It says so here in verse 7. "He that is dead is freed from sin." We are freed selves in Christ's death and burial. But that's not the end of it. Oh, no, you come bang up against another problem in chapter 7. Now I'm a freed self, dead indeed unto sin, alive unto God in my Lord Jesus Christ. Now I get about it; now I serve the Lord. Shall I? Bang, I go down again in Romans 7, because Romans 7 says, "Do it then, try it out. Here you are; here are the standards. Serve Him, fulfill His law, try it out." Bang, bang, bang, down you go again because we've to learn the second lesson which is our helplessness - OUR HELPLESSNESS. And the heart of Romans 7 is verse 18, the last half, "for to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I find I haven't the power." So the lesson we have to learn next is this: Yes, you are a freed self, but though redeemed, still a helpless self. Romans 6 is a freed self. Romans 7 is a helpless self.

Now we are back in the garden of Eden. Now we are back in the very lesson which Adam failed to learn-his helplessness. The very lesson that Israel failed to learn at Mt. Sinai, was their helplessness. Now we have to learn it all over again. The redeemed self cannot do it, the redeemed self is merely a container that can't do a thing, "in me, in my flesh dwelleth no good thing." It's merely a container. It's a free container now. It's no longer a bound container, it's freed-free from sin free from the world, but it's still only a container. And if you up and try to serve Jesus, down you come again. You can't do it.

The law was my "PERSONAL TRAINER," TEACHING ME THAT I LIVE BY RECEIVING, NOT BY ACHIEVING.

Every time I tried to be good or avoid evil - bang! The law would shoot me and down I would go. I would do this and not do that - Bang!

I would make new promises - redouble my efforts - Bang!

This time I would get hold of "God's Power" and do it right. - Bang!

This time I will be better "FOR SURE" - BANG!

Bang - bang - bang - I was shot down thousands of times before I even started to learn my lesson OF COMPLETE HELPLESSNESS.

I could have never learned this so important lesson if the law did not shoot me. I now thank God for the law and all the bullet holes it put in me. Only the law could slay me of this self righteousness that I had. I had no idea that it even existed before the law shot me. It was the law the showed me that my "I" needed to replaced with Christ Himself.

Are you trying to add Jesus Christ to your life? Are you trying to apply His teachings to your life? This is NOT TRUE CHRISTIANITY! You do not apply Him or His teachings to your life at all. You have died and you have His LIFE. He applies HIs Life to you and in you - it was an total exchange. You died - He lives. You no longer have a life - He is your LIFE!

Gal 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Now look at this part, "yet not I, but Christ liveth in me." the "I" was replaced with the person of Christ. So the old you that was servant and slave of sin was crucified and buried with Christ. When Christ arose from the dead - the new you was raised with HIM - with HIS LIFE.

Now the truth is that you are not separated from Christ. You just do not have Christ but Christ Himself is NOW you!!!! You have died and Christ Himself is your life. This was an exchange of lives - not a change. Your old life was taken away in death and buried. Then Christ gave you His life in the place of your old life. Before you where just an container of sin and the devil's life - now you are a container of Christ's life. A container only contains the life of another it has NO life in it self or any ability to apply anything to itself.

Here is the real truth - you are not separated from Christ - you are a container of HIS LIFE. Christ has united Himself to you - you are NOW one with HIM! CHRIST HIMSELF IS NOW THE REAL YOU! IT IS HIS LIFE expressing it self in your body (container)

Here is the key "I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me" YET NOT I - BUT CHRIST who is now me! So the old you that was servant and slave of sin was crucified and buried with Christ. When Christ arose from the dead - the new you was raised with HIM - with HIS LIFE.

Christ has united Himself to you - you are NOW one with HIM! Yes He UNITED Himself to you - you did NOT unite yourself to Him!

THERE IS NO SEPARATION between Him and you. CHRIST HIMSELF IS NOW THE REAL YOU! IT IS HIS LIFE expressing it self in your body (container)

Here is the key "I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me" YET NOT I - BUT CHRIST who is now me!

So embrace the law and hug it till it kills you!

The law, therefore, was the first form of God’s grace, because it imposed an impossibility on man - that the selfish one should be selfless - and gave him the chance of discovering his truly lost condition.

Brethren respectfully I find this title troubling. At the risk of sounding heretical. I do not agree with the Puritan/Calvinistic idea that the law must be preached to plow up the heart to bring one to Christ.

Consider the words of
Jesus in John 16:8-10

... And He (the Holy Spirit), when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and You no longer see Me; and concerning judgement, because the ruler of this world has been judged...

Jesus is inferring that since we are under the New Covenant and the Holy Spirit is the dynamic of the New Covenant. It will be the Holy Spirit that will convict one of their sins.

If we want to see how God deals with sin. Then let us not go to the Mosaic law on Sinai. Let us not preach the law of Moses. But let us preach the cross. Indeed Paul opens up the first chapter of Corinthians by saying he preach nothing but Christ crucified. He preached nothing but the cross. For here we see how God deals with sin.

I have recently been meditating on the hymn, Stricken, Smitten, and Afflicted. I think these words by Thomas Kelly illustrate far more eloquently what I'm trying to convey.

"Ye who think of sin but lightly,
Nor suppose the evil great,
Here maybe it's nature rightly,
Here is guilt make estimate.
Mark the Sacrifice appointed,
See who bears the awful load,
Tis the Word the Lord's anointed,
Son of Man and Son of God.

Brethren point a sinner to the cross for both conviction of sin and for salvation in Christ.

Simply my thoughts.

Normally I shy away from confessions of faith. But I found these two articles from the first London Baptist confession of 1646 to be right on. For they depict a New Covenant emphasis on the preaching of the Gospel.

Artcle XXIV or 24

Faith is actively begotten by the preaching of the Gospel, of the word of Christ, without respect to any power or agency in the creative, but being wholly passive and dead in trespasses and sins, doth believe and is converted by no less power than that which Christ raised from the dead.

Article XXV or 25

The preaching of the gospel by the conversion of sinners, is absolutely free; no way requiring as absolutely necessary, any qualification, preparations, or terrors of the law, or preceeding ministry of the law, but only alone and the naked soul, a sinner and ungodly, to receive Christ crucified, dead and buried, and risen again, who is made a Prince and a Saviour, for such sinners as through the gospel shall be brought to believe on Him.

Working through the quaint 17th century language. Tis sufficient to preach Christ crucified and Him alone for the conversion of sinners. One need not preach the law. But only preach Jesus.

Simply my thoughts.

What about these?

Rom. 7:7, "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

Gal. 3:24, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

check this out if you missed it.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=57034&forum=35

Tuk in the scriptures you quoted I believe Paul is speaking more from his experiences as a Jew who was under the law. The law was given to the Jews only. It had no reference to the Gentiles.

In reading through Acts one will see that Paul will use the Old Testament in dealing with Jews. The Jews would know the Old Testament promises would point to a Messiah. Thus it would make sense that Paul would reference Moses and the prophets to preach Jesus.

But Paul would take a different approach with the Gentiles. We see this as Paul was preaching to the Greeks in Athens. In this case Paul took something the Athenians knew which was the phrase to an unknown God. And launch a sermon pointing to Jesus. Other times he would do miracles which would autheticate his gospel message. This happened when Paul confronted the Jewish false prophet bar Jesus in front of the Roman proconsul. In this case the proconsul was amazed at the power or the teaching of Jesus. And this resulted in his conversion.

It is interesting that many Muslims are coming to Jesus Through dreams and Visions without the preaching of the law. All I'm saying brother is that under the New Covenant we don't need to preach Moses. But we preach Jesus and the Spirit draws them.

Granted there are those preachers who preach the Ten Commandments as a means to plow up the heart. Open a sinner up to the terrors of hell Then these preachers will present Christ to them. Tell the sinner they are saved by grace. And then point them back to the law as a means of obedience. Then these poor souls are certainly condemned to a Romans 7 experience. At least this was my experience when I was involved with Calvinism. Particularly among the Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists.

Eventually God did deliver me through His grace and pointed me in the direction of the cross and the New Covenant. Also the Lord showed me that my heart was governed by the Holy Spirit and not by Moses. In other words it is Jesus who dwells in my heart and not Moses.

Simply my thoughts brother.

Brothers if anyone knew the law it was certainly the Apostle Paul. And he certainly knew what the law can do to a sinner given his experiences of Romans 7. However to the best of the apostolic record that is found in Acts, there is no indication that Paul ever preached the law to the Gentiles. At least a preaching the law to drive them and Christ.

Two accounts I reference. The first one is found in Acts 13 regarding Sergius Paulus. When Paul had the encounter with Elymias the Jewish false prophet. Paul rebuked Elymias and told him he would be blind for a time. Paul did this because Elymias was perverting the gospel that Paul was seeking to share with Sergius Paulus. Acts 13:12 says,

... Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened being amazed at the teaching of the Lord...

As far as we glean from the text there was no preaching of the Ten Commandments. But certainly a demonstration of the power of God. Such a demonstration that resulted in Sergious Paulius becoming a believer in Jesus.

The second account I references is found in Acts 16. An account we all are familiar with. In this case Paul and Silas had been imprisoned in Phillipi. At midnight when they were singing hymns of praise to God a powerful earthquake occurred. All the doors of the prison were opened. The Philippian Jailer thinking the prisoners had escaped was preparing to commit hari-kari. Paul stayed his hand by reassuring the jailor all the prisoners were there. Consider the following verses out of Acts 16:30-31

... "Sirs what must I do to be saved?" They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household."
...

The law did not need to be preached. A demonstration of the earthquake power of God was enough to turn the Philippian Jailer and his family to Christ.

I reference the above two accounts out of Acts where Paul preached Christ crucified as a result of the power of God being demonstrated. As far as I can see no law preaching was involved in the above two accounts.

Simply my thoughts.

From the other thread..........

"Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Rom 5:20-21)

The law actually increases our sin, our culpability. It stands as a testimony to our utter sinfulness and hopelessness and then only serves to highlight the beauty and the magnificence of the one who delivers us from its curse without any merit at all and birthed in sheer love!!.......bro Frank"

The law could never be considered as any kind of grace, they stand opposed to one another, one has to give way for the other to rule. Grace is unmerited favor, there is nothing unmerited about the law, the law requires from us what we cannot give. Grace gives us what we could not do by ourselves, polar opposites...........bro Frank

I agree Frank that the law requires from us what we cannot give. That is the whole point. My problem was that I thought I could do it independently until the law proved me wrong.

"I could have never learned this so important lesson if the law did not shoot me. I now thank God for the law and all the bullet holes it put in me. Only the law could slay me of this self righteousness that I had. I had no idea that it even existed before the law shot me. It was the law the showed me that my "I" needed to replaced with Christ Himself."

Now this was a form of God's love to me because I would have never seen my NOTHINGNESS without the law. So God used the law to shot me "FOR MY OWN GOOD". I did need it.

Tuc Jesus said the same thing in John 15. For He said apart from Me you can do nothing. There was no reference to the law.

My thoughts bro.

Granted PP. But there was no indication that Paul was preaching Law to Felix. More likely he was preaching Jesus and the cross to Fekix. And telling him that Jesus would return and judge the world. This is what Paul told the Athenians in Acts 17. In that sermon there was no reference to law.

Again my thoughts.

Yes I agree. All I am saying that I needed the law to show me that. Maybe you did not need the law but I thank God that He let the law shoot me.

Fketch thanks for posting the link bro. I will try to listen to it tonight since I don't have to moderate a prayer call.

Tuc I'm surprised the law only shot you. Frankly bro I'm surprised you weren't nuked and incinerated in the process. Sorry bro being facetious.

I hope somewhere along the way you found yourself to Jesus brother and came to the cross. Brother if I were you I would consider Jesus to be more of a friend to you than the law.

Brother may I ask gently. Are your eyes focused on Jesus. Or are your eyes focused on Sinai. Brother I would encourage you to stay your focus on Jesus and Jesus alone.

My thoughts bro. But I am disturbed by your post. Not for myself. But I am concerned for your well-being. Brother I exhort you. Put your Hope on Jesus. I say again put your hope in Jesus. Stay your eyes on Jesus. Brother be Jesus centered. Not law centered.

Again brother. Put your hope and your eyes on Jesus.

Brother Blaine

Yes all my hope is in Jesus and none in myself as the result of the law killing me. My eyes are on Jesus and I am not under the law. Christ is my Life!

I am an active participant in the new covenant. I see no reason for anyone to be concerned about me being thankful to God for using the law to kill me.

Brother Blaine

You used the term Bro or brother 10 times in about 14 sentences.
Thats a mighty large percentage of brothering. brother.

HI Tuc, I understand where you are coming from but just believe you are stretching it too far to call the law grace. We both know that a man is saved by grace through faith and not of works lest any man should boast. Now we could easily replace the word works for law there. Paul in Romans 7 came to the conclusion that he was a wretched man under the law, could one argue that his wretchedness was a form of grace because it led him to grace? I dont think so. Grace is so fundamentally opposed to the law that in my opinion it would just never make any sense to compare it to it in any way. Plus, it carries real danger to confuse in any way the law with grace as noted by Paul in Galatians. Grace flows from God alone and it is entirely his. Our reaction to the law is ours, our wretchedness is ours, they are at best, sign posts, pointers towards grace that is His and His alone.........bro Frank

Brothers consider Paul's words out of 1st Corinthians 2:1-4,

... And when I came to you brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony about God. For I determined to know nothing among you accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power...

In the above passage Paul was preaching Christ and Him crucified. In the above passage Paul is preaching the cross. His message was not law. But his message what is in the power of the Holy Spirit. This is why Paul says that the faith of the Corinthians would not rest on the wisdom of men but on the power of God.

Consider again what Paul says in Romans 15:18-19,

...For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed, in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ..

Again Paul is preaching in the power of the Spirit to the Gentiles to see them come to Christ. His message is confirmed and authenticated by signs and wonders. Paul is doing what Jesus said in John 16 when He testified that it is the Spirit that convicts of sin judgment and righteousness. This is New Covenant preaching that brings people to Christ. This is not the preaching of law. But this is the preaching of the Gospel by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Muslims are coming to Christ through dreams and visions. Muslims will not be drawn to Christ throigh the preaching of the Ten Commandments. But they will be drawn to Christ buy a vision of Jesus. Again this is New Covenant preaching.

Again simply my thoughts.

Gary anybody who calls the law a friend I have a concern for. I was not calling into question Tuc's salvation. But I was exhorted him to keep his eyes on Jesus and not law.

I have seen too many good people destroyed by law preaching. These people would start out in the joy of the Holy Spirit. Only to be brought under the preaching of law. Onky to have their Joy taken away.

The law is no friend to the believer. If anything the law is the enemy to the believer. And certainly the law will rob one of their Joy of Christ.

Again my thoughts.

Gary I respectfully but strongly disagree with your post. The cross is where we see where God deals with sin. Consider the testimony of John the Baptist in John 1:29,

... Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world...

Also consider 2nd Corinthians 5:21

... He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him...

The hymn writer Thomas Kelly captures the sacrifice of Christ in these words,

Ye who think of sin but lightly,
Nor suppose to be evil great.
Here may view its nature rightly
Here it's guilt may estimate.
Mark the sacrifice appointed,
See who bears the awful load.
Tis the word, the Lord's anointed
Son of Man and Son of God.

We don't need to preach the law to drive men to Christ. The Holy Spirit and His convicting ministry is quite capable of drawing men to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again my thoughts.

In March 15:39 we read the account of the Roman Centurion,

When the centaurian, who was standing right in front of Him saw the way he breathed this last, he said, "Truly this man was the son of God."...

Here we see a Roman Centurion looking at Christ on the cross and acknowledging that He is the son of God. Again there was no law preaching. But be holding the Lamb of God that was taking away the sin of the world.

Consider also Luke 23:39-43. The account is familiar to us all. It is the account where the thief on the cross rebukes the other thief for reviling Jesus. The thief realizes his sinfulness by seeing Jesus dying on the cross. He says Jesus Remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus tells him today you will be with me in Paradise.

Here we see two examples where to men were brought to faith in Jesus Christ by beholding the Lamb of God being slain on the cross.

Again my thoughts.

I agree with OP completely, when we want to do all the godly works we realize that we can not. The Holy Spirit convicts us about that truth. We hunger and thirst for righteousness but until we come to the end of ourselves we can not have it. (There is a righteousness(1) that are righteous works and there is a righteousness(2) that we receive when we first believe in Jesus. I am talking about number (1)). When we come to the end of ourselves we die and surrender. That's when God can work in us. This happens several times after we become Christians until we learn how to walk with God, and stay in a surrendered state. (Usually done by daily seeking Him in the morning) Or in other words the death happens daily.
Where does the "law" come in? When the Holy Spirit convicts us about a sin he uses the law (the law is simply a mean to know what's right and wrong). In that sense the law is the truth that the Holy Spirit will lead us to. We also know that the law is fulfilled by Jesus. Therefore we are lead to Jesus.

tuc, Is that what you meant?

If I understood well Keith Daniel explains the same thing in this sermon about the Sermon on the Mount:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGp_p8vScYo

Gary my example stands. John the Baptist got a revelation of the Holy Dpirit that Jesus would be the Lamb to take away the sin of the world. Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself. Hebrews 1 says that in these last days God has spoken to us by His Son. Jesus is the final and full revelation of God. We preach Jesus. We do not preach Moses. We preach Jesus to draw sinners to Himself. The Holy Dpirit is quite capable of bringing sinners to Christ as a sacrifice to take away sin. The Holy Spirit does not need the preaching of law to bring Sinners to repentance.

Again my thoughts.

Brothers and sisters please consider 2nd Corinthians 3. The whole chapter speaks of the passing away of the old Covenant. The whole chapter speaks of our being under the New Covenant.

Please consider 2nd Corinthians 3:5-6,

...Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who has made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life...

Paul is describing himself as a servant of the New Covenant. Paul is describing himself as a servant of the Holy Spirit. The law is old Covenant given to Israel. Paul does not use the law to preach to Gentiles to bring them to Christ. But he operates in the power of the Holy Spirit. This is because Paul sees himself as being under the New Covenant, being under the dynamic of the Holy Spirit.

Again please consider 2nd Corinthians 3:7-11,

... But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what has glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory...

Bottom line the glory of the Old Covenant has passed away. We are under the glory of the New Covenant. We are governed by the Holy Spirit. Not by Moses.

Paul described himself as a servant of the New Covenant. He preached in the power of the Holy Spirit to draw men to Christ. He preached Christ crucified. Paul did not preach the law to the Gentiles to draw them to Christ. To Paul the law was old Covenant which had passed away.

The effects of preaching law will have these consequences in 2nd Corinthians 3:15-16,

... But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away...

Again better to preach Christ than law.

And again the last two verses of 2nd Corinthians 3 should be of great encouragement for those under the New Covenant,

...Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit...

Brothers and sisters the law of Moses cannot transform us into the image of Christ. It is only the holy spirit that can do that.

Again simply my thoughts.

Psalms 1
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Gary of course Paul quoted Old Testament law. But it was in a New Testament context to obey Christ. Consider these verses out of Romans 13:8-9,

... Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTRY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET, and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGBOR AS YOURSELF.

Paul is quoting Old Testament law. But the Old Testament law is summed up under the New Covenant law. That is you shall love your neighbor as yourself. Indeed James 2:8 calls this the royal law. It is called such because it is the law of Christ.

Again simply my thoughts.

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Todd

That's good, kinda dates us though.

Many probably don't know who sing that song. :-)

Edited:
Tuc, I loved much about this article but find the title troubling. It gives the impression that the law is our best friend and helper. It is nothing of the sort, it is our enemy and condemner. We often quote Gal 2:20 but forget vs 19 which explains that It is NOT the law that kills me but rather it is the law that I die to.
"For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law””I stopped trying to meet all its requirements””so that I might live for God. My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. (”­Galatians”¬ ”­2”¬:”­19-20”¬ NLT)

My take away from your article is "the overcoming life" and on this subject of dying to the Law and being Married to Christ, you will find no better teacher than Zac Poonen. I urge you to add to your understanding by learning from brother Zac on this subject. I will try to find a link to his sermon on this.

Narrowpath writes.........

"We do not preach the law to the Gentiles but "the Kingdom of God is near" - Therefore all men should repent. The Law was the taskmaster until Christ appeared. If you still preach the law, you make Christ void. He fulfilled the law and took its sting that nailed him to the cross.We proclaim the rule of Christ. You either repent and make him your Lord or rebel and be condemned. Conviction does not come by the law, but by the Holy Spirit."

There you have it, well said brother.........bro Frank

What I have been trying to say through half-a-dozen posts Narrowpath has said and one short post. Very well said brother. As brother Frank said there you have it. It is Christ and Christ Alone.

Simply my thoughts.

I don't really think the OP was about "preaching" per se, but rather "living" under the Law vs under Christ.

As believers we already understand that we are not justified by the works of the Law but by faith in Christ. The problem then becomes how do we go on and live our lives? Do we see ourselves "married" to the Law still or "married" to Christ? Are we always trying to please the Law or have we given up on that impossible endeavor and now live to please the Lord who loves us and extends His power/grace and mercy towards us?

This is something the Law could never do. Brother Zac explains this so powerfully.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4269&commentView=itemComments

Yuehan

In Acts 28:30-31,

And he stayed too full years in his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openess, unhindered.

Also in Acts 20:22 Paul tells the Eph. elders that he solemnly testified to them of repentence toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. I would define repentence as turning toward God away from sin and trusting in Christ.

Anyway just some quick insights.

Simply my thoughts.:)

I never knew anything about God's law before I came to Christ and it was not His law that brought me to Him. I was seeking to know if there was a God and He revealed Himself to me one evening and showed me He died for me. No sin involved.

It was no issue to me and I thought that I was no worse than anyone else.

Later however, I found out what He required of me via the commandments in the NT but found that my old man was not dead.

So the commanments convicted me and led me to Christ where He delivered me from the old man and I was able to walk in victory over sin the world and the devil.

So His law was a friend indeed.

Awakened said:
"As believers we already understand that we are not justified by the works of the Law but by faith in Christ. The problem then becomes how do we go on and live our lives?"

I think what the OP describes is how we learn to walk with the Lord.
As Christians we want to please God desperately, because we love him.
But if we are not completely surrendered to him we do not even recognize that in our great effort to please him we actually serve ourselves. God can only use us if we are completely surrendered.
How can we get to a place of complete surrender?
By wanting to do good things (law).
1. Hard way: (for beginners) In our great zeal to please him somehow we loose our sight of Jesus and try to do good things (law) on our own. We fail and surrender. Now our actions are based on faith in Jesus.
2. Easy way: Offering our bodies as living sacrifice to Him daily. Our self will is dealt with in prayer, and we saved ourselves from some failures. We do the good things (law) effortlessly since we trust in Jesus.

In both cases God's universal (not old testament) law inspired us to do good things and lead us to Jesus.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

When Peter saw Moses and Elijah during the transfiguration of Christ he wanted to construct three alters, in a sense elevating the law and the prophets to the same level as Christ. But God set him straight...and God spoke from the heavens, ""This is my Son, whom I love; with Him I am well pleased. Listen to Him!”

What God was showing them and now us is that we are not to follow the letter of the law any longer as the writers under the old covenant urged us...we are to listen to and follow Christ. The purpose of the "letter" is to lead us to Christ. It is not an end in itself. It is to lead us in a closer walk with Christ, not to merely give us understanding about scripture and doctrines. Sometimes I get the impression that the "letter" is the only thing that many Christians understand. But the purpose of the "letter" is to lead us or rather "produce" within us the life of Christ.

Hi narrow path

The curse is that it condemns when we try to keep it in our uncrucified flesh because it must be kept perfectly, and without that condemnation, l would not have known that there was a better way that is to say, the way of the Spirit as the life and power to obey.

How can it be an enemy when it takes us to Christ?

Galatians 5:18

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Galatians 5:22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentlemen, self control; against such things there is no law.

Are we not under the law because we are being led by the Spirit to manifest His fruit in our lives?

Was wondering?

You cannot be led by the Spirit and under the law at the same time. It has to be one or the other: the law of sin and death or the law of life typified by the two trees in Eden.

Thank you Brenda. I'm now seeing it is a choice. Either we are under the law or under the spirit.

"The law is like a fierce rottweiler..."

Good stuff Narrowpath. Instead of a dog, I picture a cruel slave master who is subservient to Christ. As you stated, when I am led by Christ (under grace), the slave driver backs off and leaves me alone. But when I leave Christ, the Law takes over again and condemns me. The law is not my friend, he is a cruel task master who, although he wants me to do good, when I invariably fail, he punishes and condemns me. Christ on the other hand strengthens and encourages me if I fail. Jesus gives grace, while the law brings condemnation. One is my Friend, the other is not:-)

Narrowpath very good analogy. If the Rottweiler be the flesh that is next to us.. Then staying close to Christ we tame the flesh by the power of the Spirit. If we try to tame it ourselves. The flesh shall overcome us.

Again very good analogy. As Brenda says it's a choice. The choice is stay close to Christ to tame the Rottweiler.

Okay. I was looking at the Rottweiler as the Flash. But I think the analogy is still valid. Since the flesh is energized by the law.

Nobody believes here that we are under the law.
In the OT the law was written in a book (scroll). Most people obeyed the letter of the law.
In the NT the law is Christ, it is written in our heart, we obey it/him by the Holy Spirit.

The law is not abolished, it shows us what God wants us to do.

I still say that the law is my friend. I in myself, am so corrupt that l am always at the point of trusting in myself rather than Christ, and the mad dog keeps me on the straight and narrow path because l choose life and fellowship with Christ.

If l slip l am back under the law and l die, spiritually that is. Only those who walk by the Spirit can stay away from the mad dog.

The law is the enemy of the flesh. It kills it. As soon as the flesh is dead the spirit can lead us. Therefore the law is the friend of the spirit.

Amen!

Toszu respectfully sister I just do not see that view in the scriptures. Romans 7:5 says,

... For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

Paul tells us also in 1st Corinthians 15:56,

... The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law...

Sister far from the law on killing our flesh. It's the law that energizes sin in our flesh. But there is an encouraging word in Romans 7:6,

... But now we have been released from the law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldest of the letter...

And we kill the flesh by the power of the Spirit. What Paul tells us in Romans 8:12-13 is,

... So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Simply my thoughts sister.

I met a young women working at the donut shop this morning and I asked her if she was a christian. She replied that she was catholic. I asked her why that was different to being a christian and if she could tell me how to be saved. Her answer? "Do good works and go to church".

This young woman is not born again and is not married to Christ (yet) but married to the Law. She is under condemnation and is being led to her death under this covenant of death. The Law is her prison master, not her friend, but her death bringer. There is no hope for this girl unless she turns to Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:6-8 tells us that we are ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter (law) but of the Spirit; for the letter (law) kills, but the Spirit gives life. Paul is making a distinction between the Old Covenant written on stone and the New Covenant that is presented inside us by the Spirit. The old (the law) brought death, because no one could keep its directives, whereas the new brings life through the life-giving Spirit. The letter (the law) killed because no one was able to keep it. It made us guilty, while the New Covenant sets us free from the condemnation of the law. The law was fulfilled in the only person who could have fulfilled it, Jesus Christ. Now we have Him within us and that is the end of the matter.

Dear Blaine,

Thank you for the question. I really want to show this from the scriptures. It requires a little more time to study, and I would be benefited by it too. So I am preparing an answer.

God bless you,
Zsuzsanna

The girl is lost. The two laws are meant for God's children. The two trees were in the garden of Eden and the law was given to His people under the Old Covenant.

We choose as believers which law we are under, working from the flesh or working from the Spirit.

by Tozsu on 2016/5/28 17:33:33

The law is the enemy of the flesh. It kills it. As soon as the flesh is dead the spirit can lead us. Therefore the law is the friend of the spirit.

"The enemy of my enemy has become my friend."

Brothers I say to you gently. You are so enamored with the law and Moses. You are forgetting Jesus and his death the cross. I hear more of the law mentioned in this thread then I hear of Jesus. Your focus is so on Moses. Your focus is so on the law. I fear that you are forgetting the cross of Jesus Christ and his death.

Paul continually reminds us that his message was Christ crucified. Paul reminds us that he passed on as to what he received as of first importance. And that was the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. His message was a cross.

Brothers Paul said may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ of which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. You to read some of your posts I fear you are boasting in the law.

Brothers I fear some of are forgetting Jesus and His death on the cross and your desire to exalt the law and Moses.

So sad. If you really believe the law can save you. As for me I will take my stand at the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.

My thoughts.

This thread is all over the place like a dogs breakfast:-)

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Paul seems to be saying above that if righteousness (salvation)comes by or through the law then Christ is dead in vain. He again reinforces the point by asking, did you receive the Spirit (salvation) b the works of the law ( hearing it or being convicted by it or trying to abide by it, or failing to abide by it or by any means of it at all) or by the hearing of faith ( hearing about Jesus and what He did and who He is and by what He wants from us)

Can anyone here who is reading or participating on this thread testify that they were saved by the hearing of the law? I personally never knew anything about the Jewish law, moral or otherwise prior to being saved. Was I convicted of sin? Yes, by the Holy Spirit of the living God. When men hear by the Spirit through a saint that Jesus died for them and for their sins, then they are " stabbed in the heart." This stabbing of the heart is a work of the Holy Spirit. This is highlighted famously in Acts 2. Read again and listen carefully to what Peter shares. The gist of what he was saying was that they crucified the Christ whether by ignorance or deliberately, no matter, they crucified the Christ. That truth has been convicting men ever since because when they encounter Jesus and His love for them for dying for them, they are convicted one way or another.

If men, in any shape or fashion, could be convicted and saved by the law then Christ died in vain. Christ and He alone saves by grace through faith and not of the law lest any man should boast. This is the fundamental truth of who we are and the work of Calvary. The centerpiece of salvation is Christ alone and Him crucified. We are convicted by how we sinned against a Holy Gods sacrifice and we will be judged solely on what we did with Calvary. Calvary is a mysterious amalgam of justice and mercy, all the work of salvation is based entirely on the work of Jesus on Calvary. To add a single thing to this equation is to subtract from Calvary..............bro Frank

Brothergary, read my post and tell me what you disagree with. If you disagree with my last post, then let us agree to disagree. May the Lord bless you brother.........bro Frank

Just to make sure that everyone understands that I am no longer under the law and I do NOT have a relationship with the law.

I enjoying Christ's Victory within me.

My biggest issue was the lie of an independent self.
As long as I "FELT" independent - then it was up to me to get it to work.

This independent self was ONLY AN ILLUSION.
I now I see Christ in me - as me - HIM expressing HIS LIFE THROUGH ME - The old "I" is dead.
I am just a branch totally dependent on HIM.

Galatians 3:1-2

You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to hear from you did you receive the Spirit by the Works of the law, or by hearing with faith.

A very appropriate question to ask since some believe that the work of the law is to kill those that are under it. A very appropriate question to ask since some believe that we have to preach the law before the gospel is preached?

I submit that one will not receive the spirit, let alone the gospel, through the preaching of the law. But rather one must preach the cross of Christ. Paul indicates that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified before the Galatians. As such when they heard the gospel through the preaching of the cross they receive also the Spirit of Jesus into their lives.

Romans 10:17 says so faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. The word of Christ is that message which Paul first received and then passed on to those who would hear it. He articulates the gospel is the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ according to the scriptures. But the cross is a centrality of the Gospel. Here there is no law preaching but the setting forth of Christ and him crucified. For his message was always the crucified Christ that would draw all men to salvation in Him.

In going through the New Testament I see no record where Paul preached the law to gentiles. But it was always the preaching of the cross of Christ.

Because I pray for the persecuted I watch videos about what God is doing in restricted Nations.. Particularly among Muslims. The videos tell of credible reports where Jesus is appearing to Muslims in dreams and visions. This is resulting in their coming to faith in Christ and following Him. In the reports there is no mention of them having to go to Moses and be Killed by the law. And then they come to Christ. The vision of Jesus himself appearing to Muslims is enough to turn their hearts toward faith in Him.

In my own experiences from the Jesus movement it was enough that one hear the gospel and then respond to the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit was quite sufficient to work in one's life to convict them of their need for a savior. The Ten Commandments would never preached.

Again I submit the Holy Spirit is quite sufficient to convict one's heart of their need for the Lord Jesus Christ. In John 16 we read that it's the Spirit that will convict one of sin judgment and righteousness. There is no need to preach Moses. If anything all we do is lift up Jesus and the Spirit is quite capable of drawing men to Him.

It seems the crying need of the hour is to lift up Christ and to pray for His word to have free run abd reign in the hearts of men and women. We don't need to pray for Moses to be preached. But we need to pray that Christ be preached. We pray that Christ crucified and resurrected be lifted up before men and women that they may see their need by the power of the spirit to come to saving faith and life in the Lord Jesus Christ.

My thoughts. Posted respectfully.

Hi Blain, here is the answer to your questions that I promised:

The word "law" in psalms 19:7 means in proper translation instruction from God regarding our conduct. (law1)
The word "law" in Romans means the law given to Moses. (law2)
Law2 is a limited version of law1, because God is not personally present in it.
Regularly hearing and obeying law1 is our main job as christians.
Paul tells the Romans that they should seek law1 because law2 is not sufficient to keep them alive. However it has an important role: to lead us to Jesus.
Born again Christians can walk in the flesh or in the spirit. When we walk in the spirit we can hear law1, but when we walk in the flesh we can not.
In the flesh we can only hear law2. When we hear law2 we become helplessly sinful and need the saviour himself, at that point we cry out: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Romans 7:24 As a result Jesus will save us , our flesh dies and now we can walk according to the spirit.

Tozso thank you for your kind response. Interesting how you made the distinctions refarding law 1 and law 2. So I would imagine if Paul says he's under the law of Christ. He is meaning law 1. Would you agree?

Bro. Blaine

Yes

Got you. Thank you sister. Agree with you. By the way are you from Romania? Do you know who Richard wurmbrand is?

Bro Blaine

I am from Hungary. I have read about him. He was leading an underground church, and suffered in prison for it.

I believe many of your home country of Hungary suffered persecution also. I have started a new thread and entitled Of Those Persecuted. I hope to provide a quote from one of our persecuted brothers and sisters on a daily basis to encourage and edify. I have included a quote by Richard wurmbrand. I hope you find it a blessing to you sister.

By the way I do appreciate your posts and insights. You are a blessing to the forum sister.

Again I did find your distinction so the two laws of blessing.

Your brother in Jesus,

Blaine

I was born way after the great revolt in 1956. Before and right after 1956 there was a fierce persecution however after that the persecution softened. All that time as it is also written in Wurmbrand's book there was a "shop window" church that had a pact with the state. Everyone, not only christians learned how to read between the lines and receive coded truth. Some people who seemingly served the state were just and merciful in secret. Hungarians knew well how to resist authority, it is rooted in our history as we often were under foreign occupation. This backfires sometimes as we could be also unjust and rebellious against our leaders. I know of a relative who was arrested for protesting against the state's taking over christian schools, but later got released, i heard that the state limited the number of converts a church was allowed to have, and the state sent informants to sit in the pews to report any suspicious activity in the church. A wife of a preacher could not get a teaching job and his children could not (easily) study to become teachers. In schools christianity was constantly ridiculed. Free pentecostal churches were harassed by the police. Till I came to the US I always thought that this kind of soft persecution was natural...

My sister those in restricted nations due regard persecution as part of their walk with Christ. But when they get to this nation there so surprised about the lack of persecution in America. I think even Richard Wurmbrand lamented about a sleeping Church in America. And that was in the 1960s when he came to this nation. Imagine what the church is now.

Brother Blaine

THE FIRST COVENANT by Andrew Murry

"Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice, and keep My covenant, ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me."-Ex. xix. 5.

"He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even ten commandments. "-DEUT. iv. 13.

"If ye keep these judgments, the Lord thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant, "DEUT. vii. 12.

"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, which My covenant they brake."-JER. xxxi. 31, 32.

WE have seen how the reason for there being two Covenants is to be found in the need of giving the Divine and the human will, each their due place in the working out of man's destiny. God ever takes the initiative. Man must then have the opportunity to do his part, and to prove either what he can do, or needs to have done for him. The Old Covenant was on the one hand indispensably necessary to waken man's desires, to call forth his efforts, to deepen the sense of dependence on God, to convince of his sin and impotence, and so to prepare him to feel the need of the salvation of Christ. In the significant language of Paul, "The law was our schoolmaster unto Christ." "We were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith, which should afterwards be revealed." To understand the Old Covenant aright we must ever remember its two great characteristics ---the one, that it was of Divine appointment, fraught with much true blessing, and absolutely indispensable for the working out of God's purposes; the other, that it was only provisional and preparatory to something higher, and therefore absolutely insufficient for giving that full salvation which man needs if his heart or the heart of God is to be satisfied.

Note now the terms of this first Covenant. "If ye will obey My voice and keep My covenant, ye shall be unto Me a holy nation." Or, as it is expressed in Jeremiah (vii. 23, xi. 4), "Obey My voice, and I will be your God." Obedience everywhere, especially in the Book of Deuteronomy, appears as the condition of blessing. "A blessing if ye obey" (xi. 27). Some may ask how God could make a covenant of which He knew that man could not keep it. The answer opens up to us the whole nature and object of the Covenant. All education, Divine or human, ever deals. with its pupils on the principle- -faithfulness in the less is essential to the attainment of the greater. In taking Israel into His training, God dealt with them as men in whom, with all the ruin sin had brought, there still was a conscience to judge of good and evil, a heart capable of being stirred to long after God, and a will to choose the good and to choose Himself. Before Christ and His salvation could be revealed and understood and truly appreciated, these faculties of man had to be stirred and wakened. The law took men into its training, and sought, if I may use the expression, to make the very best that could be made of them by external instruction. In the provision made in the law for a symbolical atonement and pardon, in all God's revelation of Himself through priest and prophet and king, in His interposition in providence and grace, everything was done that He could do, to touch and win the heart of His people and to give force to the appeal to their self-interest or their gratitude, their fear or their love.

Its work was not without fruit. Under the law, administered by the grace that ever accompanied it, there was trained up a number of men whose great mark was the fear of God, and a desire to walk blameless in all His commandments. And yet, as a whole, Scripture represents the Old Covenant as a failure. The law had promised life; but it could not give it (Deut. iv. 1 ; Gal. iii. 21). The real purpose for which God had given it was the very opposite: it was meant by Him as "a ministration of death." He gave it that it might convince man of his sin, and might so waken the confession of his impotence, and of his need of a New Covenant and a true redemption. It is in this view that Scripture uses such strong expressions- "By the law is the knowledge of sin: that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may become guilty before God." " The law worketh wrath." "The law entered, that the offence might abound." "That sin by the commandment might appear exceeding sinful." "As many as are of the works of the law are under the curse." "We were kept under the law, shut up to the faith, which should afterwards be revealed." "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." The great work of the law was to discover what sin was: its hatefulness as accursed of God; its misery, working temporal and eternal ruin; its power, binding man down in hopeless slavery; and the need of a Divine interposition- as the only hope of deliverance.

In studying the Old Covenant we ought ever to keep in mind the twofold aspect under which we have seen that Scripture represents it. It was God's grace that gave Israel the law, and wrought with the law to make it work out its purpose in individual believers and in the people as a whole. The whole of the Old Covenant was a school of grace, an elementary school, to prepare for the fullness of grace and truth in Christ Jesus. A name is generally given to an object according to its chief feature. And so the Old Covenant is called a ministration of condemnation and death, not because there was no grace in it-it had its Own glory (2 Cor. iii. 10-12)-but because the law with its curse was the predominating element. The combination of the two aspects we find with especial clearness in Paul's epistles. So he speaks of all who are of the works of the law as under the curse (Gal. iii. 10). And then almost immediately after he speaks of the law as being our benefactor, a schoolmaster unto Christ, into whose charge, as to a tutor or governor, we had been given, till the time appointed of the Father. We are everywhere brought back to what we said above. The Old Covenant is absolutely indispensable for the preparation work it had to do; utterly insufficient to work for us a true or a full redemption.

The two great lessons God would teach us by it are very simple. The one is the lesson of SIN, the other the lesson of HOLINESS. The Old Covenant attains its object only as it brings men to a sense of their utter sinfulness and their hopeless impotence to deliver themselves. As long as they have not learnt this, no offer of the New Covenant life can lay hold of them. As long as an intense longing for deliverance from sinning has not been wrought, they will naturally fall back into the power of the law and the flesh. The holiness which the New Covenant offers will rather terrify than attract them; the life in the spirit of bondage appears to make more allowance for sin, because obedience is declared to be impossible.

The other is the lesson of Holiness. In the New Covenant the Triune God engages to do all. He undertakes to give and keep the new heart, to give His own Spirit in it, to give the will and the power to obey and do His will. As the one demand of the first Covenant was the sense of sin, the one great demand of the New is faith that that need, created by the discipline of God's law, will be met in a Divine and supernatural way. The law cannot work out its purpose, except as it brings a man to lie guilty and helpless before the holiness of God. There the New finds him, and reveals that same God, in His grace accepting him and making him partaker of His holiness.

---------------

look at what he said here

"In studying the Old Covenant we ought ever to keep in mind the twofold aspect under which we have seen that Scripture represents it. It was God's grace that gave Israel the law, and wrought with the law to make it work out its purpose in individual believers and in the people as a whole. The whole of the Old Covenant was a school of grace, an elementary school, to prepare for the fullness of grace and truth in Christ Jesus."

John says "We saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." 'The law was given through Moses;grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ." "For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace." What the law demands, grace supplies. The contrast that John pointed out is expounded by Paul; The law came in so that transgression would increase," and the way be prepared for the abounding grace more exceedingly. The law demands, but makes no provision for its demands being met. The law burdens and condemns and slays. It can awaken desire but cannot satisfy it. It can rouse to effort but cannot secure success. It can appeal to motives, but it gives no inward power beyond what man himself has. And so, while warring against sin, it becomes its very ally in giving the sinner over to a hopeless condemnation. "The power of sin is the law." (1 Cor 15:56) (The Two Covenants, Andrew Murray)

"And so, while warring against sin, it (law) becomes its very ally in giving the sinner over to a hopeless condemnation."
True.
So how do we prevent this situation? By not listening to the law in the first place? NO! We prevent this situation by not trying to war sins while we are in the flesh but cry out to Jesus, let the flesh die that's when we can walk by the spirit.
If we avoid the law because it might bring condemnation what will move us out from our fleshly state?

2nd Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Colissians 2:16-17

Therefore do not let anyone act as your judge in regard to food, or drink and respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

My goodness folks. If the substance belongs to Christ, why are we looking at the shadow. Hebrews 10:1 tells us,

For the law, since it if it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things,

Brothers and sisters we have the substance of Christ. Why do we want to go back to the shadow to look at God.

If I wanted to go to the California Redwoods to see a redwood. I would not look at the shadow of the Redwood. But I would look at the actual Redwood itself. The law is only a shadow of Christ. But we can look to Jesus himself. He is the substance and the reality of God himself. Let us look to Jesus. Not to Moses or the decalogue.

My thoughts.

When we read the ceremonial part of the law we keep it in mind that it is a shadow, but still helps us understand the real thing. For example the expression "Jesus is a lamb" is much easier to understand when we know the ceremonial law about the Passover lamb.The moral part of the law such as "do not kill" has not changed and is not a shadow.

by bearmaster on 2016/5/29 15:14:28

My sister those in restricted nations due regard persecution as part of their walk with Christ. But when they get to this nation there so surprised about the lack of persecution in America. I think even Richard Wurmbrand lamented about a sleeping Church in America. And that was in the 1960s when he came to this nation. Imagine what the church is now.

Brother Blaine

Yes, the church is in a deep slumber... Brought about by false doctrine (easy believism and false security). Only those who live godly lives suffer persecution. What does that tell you?

Do you know what the law of Christ is?

Anything He tells you to do (which is always motivated by love).

"If we avoid the law because it might bring condemnation what will move us out from our fleshly state?"

I must say I am intrigued by these kinds of statements. It makes me think of when Paul was accused of preaching a license to sin, of course his reply was "God forbid."

The answer to the question above is love!!! Love for God, an abiding love for Jesus, desiring to please the one that we love, desiring never to let Him down. Its about a genuine love relationship not about a series of rules. Of course no genuine saint would want to break any of the 10 commandments but its not the fact that these commandments exist that the saint desires not to break them, its because he or she has encountered the glorious loving reality of God, not in the abstract, but in the burning reality of relationship.

Any man on here who loves his wife wants to please her, he would never want to hurt her. He would not want to violate his vows to her and perhaps cause separation from her. If we can understand this is the natural, I wonder how it is so difficult for some to understand the supernatural love of God which is deeper and higher and more all consuming than any worldly love.

If anyone is looking for an excuse to sin or needs to be reigned in from sinning by the 10 commandments then I believe that person needs to have a look at the depth of the love relationship they have with the Lord.The love of God frees us from the need to be reigned in by the law.......bro Frank

I once had a brother tell me that our walk with Christ is "relational" not "regulational".

Bro Blaine

What "moves us out of our fleshly state", is His life. We live by His life.

We don't live by a codified set of rules like other religions. Christianity is not a religion and is unique in that we live by the very life of Christ in God.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Julias writes........

"We don't live by a codified set of rules like other religions. Christianity is not a religion and is unique in that we live by the very life of Christ in God."

Amen.........bro Frank

Appolus, is it possible that the law is the expression of God's love as well as grace is?

an example:

On the day I repented from my old life I confessed all my known sins and Jesus washed me completely clean. It didn't bother me at all that my speech was unclean and I was using a lot of swear words because God didn't impute that sin to me, I WAS clean. Next Sunday I went to church and the sermon was about "the sins of the tongue" (NT), as I listened to the bible verses explained, the Holy Spirit convicted me of that sin. I felt awful for a short time but luckily there was a confession and prayer at the end so Jesus washed me again and I was completely clean again. The law made the work of the flesh (cussing) more sinful. My flesh did not like it but it was for my benefit.

In this case it pleased the Holy Spirit to communicate something to me through that preaching, that included both law and grace. If I had only heard about how God loved me I would be still cussing. God wants us to GROW because he loves us.

Hi Tozsu, it seems that you are using the law of the OT interchangeably with the royal law of love found in the NT. The law was fulfilled in Christ and by Christ and we are no longer under the law. You write.........

" It didn't bother me at all that my speech was unclean and I was using a lot of swear words because God didn't impute that sin to me, I WAS clean."

Sorry sister, in all my years as a Christian I have never heard of a saint who could sin with impunity until they heard a sermon. The Holy Spirit operates within us, and the words of Jesus confirm what we would already know.Most on the NT sainst had very little access to any scriptures for the first 300 years yet the Holy Spirit was about His work.

The Holy Spirit and the word of God is what leads us and guides us. I think there may be semantics involved but only because you insist on calling it " The Law." Can I suggest that you were simply convicted by the Holy Spirit sister. This would be in line with NT teaching as opposed to the addition you make by employing the law ( still dont know what you really mean by that) as an aid to work of the Spirit.

Can I ask where you grew up? I grew up in the projects in Scotland where I knew not a single Christian for most of the time, but I always knew, as did all of my friends that cussing was wrong, and that was without the aid of the Holy Spirit but of course we had no conviction and spoke how we pleased, every other word being a cuss word. It took me three days after getting saved to realize that the cussing was gone, just dropped away like a scab.

I did smoke though, and not a single Scripture to tell me that was wrong, yet I knew it was and I was " convicted" by it. I was ashamed of it before my heavenly Father even although I felt no anger or dissapointment from Him. Do you know, that made it worse. You see, His love for me increased my desire not to offend a Holy God. The conviction was made worse by His love. I have come before the throne so many times expecting justice, desiring justice, to asuage my guilty flesh, looking for a flogging if you like (because that is the way the flesh works). You know what I found before the throne of grace? Mercy. Justice and the law demands judgement, mercy triumphs over the law and we see no clearer picture of this than on Calvary.............bro Fran

I think the reason that this topic is worth fleshing out is because so many saints get wrapped up in the law ( hence Galatians) and get off track and almost wreck their walks. Condemnation and not conviction flow from it and there is a life and death difference between conviction and condemnation. One leads to spiritual life, the other to spiritual and sometimes actual death.........bro Frank

Appolus,
Previously on this thead I wrote this about my understanding of the law:
"The word "law" in psalms 19:7 means in proper translation instruction from God regarding our conduct. (law1)
The word "law" in Romans means the law given to Moses. (law2)
Law2 is a limited version of law1, because God is not personally present in it.
Regularly hearing and obeying law1 is our main job as christians.Paul tells the Romans that they should seek law1 because law2 is not sufficient to keep them alive. However it has an important role: to lead us to Jesus."

After I got saved the Holy Spirit spoke to me about many things and then I would read about what the Holy Spirit told me, in the scriptures. It was quite comforting and reassuring knowing that the author of the scriptures was telling me things before even reading about it in the Word.

I actually came to the Lord based on the love and forgiveness of Christ. I already knew I was a sinner from my conscience. The Holy Spirit was working in my heart that I needed Christ or the way I was going I would die soon and go to hell. Being a former Catholic I was raised with nothing but the law. It did not lead me to Christ, the love of God, did.

Appolus:"in all my years as a Christian I have never heard of a saint who could sin with impunity until they heard a sermon."
Neither did I. But I know from the bible that it is possible that a christian sins and doesn't know it. God does not want him to have sinless perfection a week after his conversion, He is looking at the persons heart, obedience and willingness to change. This is how it is possible to be clean and also being cleansed. Psalms 19:12 "...Cleanse me from my hidden faults."
1st John 1:7
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Romans 12:2 - "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
John 15:1
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 13:8-10
8...If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Apollus,
I grew up in Hungary even decent people use little curses and stuff when they speak they don't even think about the meaning.I am not talking about hardcore.

I liked your testimony about how you got saved from smoking, and that how much He loved you and never condemned you even when you wanted to be condemned. I note three things about this story: 1. Your heart was already convicted you did not need the law only love. 2. You were walking in the spirit and could hear the instruction (law) from the Holy Spirit.3. you experienced the death of the flesh also. But this is not always the case with all the Christians. Sometimes they walk in the flesh and can't hear the Holy Spirit. They are not convicted about their sin but are rather careless. They really need to be stirred up. That's when the preaching/reading of the law (as in will of God) can help them otherwise they would just keep walking ignorantly in the flesh. At this point primarily they need the law (of course grace also)and as soon as their heart is convicted they need the love and grace and have their flesh crucified.

I agree with the part about the conviction vs condemnation.

2nd Korinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

I believe that if the law is preached inspired by the Holy Spirit it brings about Godly sorrow, but when it is preached from the flesh it brings about condemnation.

It is inspiring to hear from you about life guided by the Holy Spirit, and have your views explained which I now completely understand.
not the end times views though ;)
God Bless you,
Zsuzsanna

Sister when one looks at 2nd Corinthians 3:7-11 these words from Paul are seen,

...But if the ministry of death, on letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? If the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory of that surpasses it...

The above passage is in The New American Standard translation is a little awkward to read. But the bottom line is the glory of the old covenant has passed away. We are under a new covenant that has greater glory and remains to this day. In 2 Cor.2:6 Paul comments,

... who has made us as adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills but the spirit gives life...

For Paul to preach the law, he would have been a servant of the old covenant. But he regarded himself as a servant of the new covenant by preaching the gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit. In 1st Corinthians 15:3-4 Paul writes,

...For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the scriptures...

Paul also writes 1 Corithians 2:1-4,

...And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you accept Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling. And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of man, but on the power of God..

Dear sister what Paul was doing was preaching Christ crucified as a servant of the New Covenant in the power of the Spirit. I think the early English Baptists got it right in their first confession in Artcle 25,

... The preaching of the gospel to the conversion of sinners is absolutely free; no way requiring an absolutely necessary, any qualification, preparation, or terrors of the law, or proceeding ministry of the law...

I am not placing confessions of faith on the par of scripture. But even the these early Baptist saw that it was sufficient to preach Christ and Christ alone for the salvation of sinners. Trusting that the Holy Spirit would convict and draw those sinners unto Christ Himself.

Simply my thoughts dear sister. Posted respectfully with His grace and gentleness. Not law. :-)

Tozsu,

You brought up an interesting point about sensitivity to conviction.

"I believe that if the law is preached inspired by the Holy Spirit it brings about Godly sorrow, but when it is preached from the flesh it brings about condemnation."

You see I agree entirely with that statement apart from one word, the law, which I would replace with the Word. Jesus said in John 6..........

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

You see sister, it is the words that Jesus spoke that are spirit and life. Peter follows up, Peter who grew up with " the law," and says ...........

Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Its all about Jesus and the Words He spoke. Remember, Jesus is the Word made flesh. His words are life. The old ministry was a ministry of death for it was passing away, but the Lord's ministry is a ministry of life and it is eternal.

Here is an interesting thing that you wrote which opens up another thought.......

1. Your heart was already convicted you did not need the law only love. 2. You were walking in the spirit and could hear the instruction (law) from the Holy Spirit.3. you experienced the death of the flesh also. But this is not always the case with all the Christians. Sometimes they walk in the flesh and can't hear the Holy Spirit.

Again as explained above, I would replace the word law with the word. I grew up a Catholic with a Catholic education so I knew all about the law and rules and keeping them and failing and the condemnation. Religion needs the law, without the law there could be no religion and religion is based on self effort and either, depending on how well you keep it, condemnation or self-righteousness because of outward appearance. I think a better explanation sister may be baptism in the Holy Spirit. I do agree that different people have different levels of conviction. Just as the woman at the feet of Jesus loved much because she was forgiven much. I wonder why, when there is so much agreement between us, you insist on referring to " the law." It seems so semantical when we are so close to agreeing on almost all things :) ..........bro Frank

I understand where sister Tozsu, at least I hope I do, is coming from. The law is I understand it, as the will of God whether written or spoken or given by Jesus or the Spirit.

There is the old law which is heard by men still in the flesh, and the new law, which is heard and understood by men in the Spirit. It is the same, the will of God (but in OT times spoken figuratively)

In the old way, men hear it and obey from the flesh, and do not generally know they are doing this. They do not have conviction yet that it must be kept perfectly otherwise they remain in the flesh. Jesus enables us to obey God's will as He obeyed it.

When a man is in the Spirit, he hears the will of God or the commandments in the NT, and does not obey them. Instead Jesus does the obeying. They are the law given to bring men to Christ, when they see that they need to be cleansed.

So a Christian can still call the comandments the law and not be referring to the laws given to Moses as such.

Jesus came not to destroy the law but to uphold it and this He does when He has the whole of ourselves entirely submitted to Him.

Hi Brenda

"Jesus came not to destroy the law but to uphold it and this He does when He has the whole of ourselves entirely submitted to Him."

He came to fulfill the law Brenda. You rightly identified the fact that those who live by the law must keep all of it otherwise they are a transgressor ( this is everyone) It could not be done. Jesus did it, thus fulfilling the law. Now, we live under grace and mercy because of what Jesus did for us. Grace and mercy. Grace means unmerited favor. This is what initiated salvation and is apprehended by faith. Grace continues after salvation and is found before the throne, grace and mercy. Mercy is forgiveness rather than judgement.

This is how we live as saints, under grace and mercy. Is this a license to sin? God forbid as Paul said. To the unsaved religious man who goes by the name of Jesus but in name only, it is a license to sin. They always want to know what the law is, what can they get away with. The true saint ever lives to serve his Lord and when he sins, and he will, he is deeply despondent. He comes reluctantly before the throne of grace and confesses his sin and there he finds mercy. The trouble comes when the enemy convinces him he has to first clean up his act before coming to the throne, he must first make himself worthy.

He must overcome his sin using the law as his guide and the flesh as his strength. Once he has done this he can come to the throne. This is the fools errand. The key to overcoming sin is to come before the throne and confess before our Lord. It is raising our eyes to Jesus and confessing to the one full of mercy and grace that cleanses us from sin. If we were under the law we would have to suffer the consequences of breaking the law, spiritually speaking, but we come to the one who overcame for us............bro Frank

Frank

I agree with you here:

"The true saint ever lives to serve his Lord and when he sins, and he will, he is deeply despondent. He comes reluctantly before the throne of grace and confesses his sin and there he finds mercy. The trouble comes when the enemy convinces him he has to first clean up his act before coming to the throne, he must first make himself worthy.

He must overcome his sin using the law as his guide and the flesh as his strength. Once he has done this he can come to the throne. This is the fools errand. The key to overcoming sin is to come before the throne and confess before our Lord. It is raising our eyes to Jesus and confessing to the one full of mercy and grace that cleanses us from sin."

I would add however, that the man must not just come and confess his sin, but must confess that he has not believed the scripture when it says that Jesus came to save us from sin, ALL sin, and that he has failed in seeking his own righteousness and not submit to the life of Christ within him so that he is obeying Him entirely.

If we only come to confess each sin when convicted, we will never walk as He walked and the Lord will never have complete control. There are but two covenants and the walk of sinning, confessing then sinning again is still under the old law. The new delivers us from the old man.

Hi Brenda,

Well I am glad that we agree on what we agree on :) Let me disagree with the other part and of course this has been well discussed many time before.

I do also agree that we must not simply come before the throne to confess sins. Our love of our heavenly Father draws us to His throne room to fellowship with majesty.

ps Peter had his feet cleaned by the Lord to wash the dirt of the day from him. When he said to the Lord that He should wash all of Him, Jesus told him that was not necessary, he was already clean. This is our pattern.

6. He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, "Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”

7 Jesus replied, "You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”

8 "No,” said Peter, "you shall never wash my feet.”

Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”

9 "Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, "not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!”

10 Jesus answered, "Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean

appolus: "It seems so semantical when we are so close to agreeing on almost all things :)"
Here is the reason (of our perceived disagreement): You (and julius) had the law with you since childhood but without the Holy Spirit. You were like the early Jewish believers who grew up under the law. I grew up in a communist country not having the law only my conscience, like the gentile believers. The first thing that came to me was the conviction of the Holy Spirit and grace. After I came to the Lord both the OT and the NT was like a huge gold mine to me of Gods will. I never read the law without the Holy Spirit being with me and explaining it. I really did not know thoroughly what constituted sin before. I was in a desperate need of food to renew my mind.
After a while the church I went to was not providing that food any more and I felt that I was distancing myself from the Lord, I did not grow and walked in the flesh. Gradually went back to the "delicate" sins that I was ones clean from.
I did not care that I was sinning I did not even think of God. It was the preaching of the law (by the Holy Spirit) that revived me as someone who already experienced grace and love.

Hi Frank

We read in the following verses:

12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them.

13 "You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.

14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet.

15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

------------------------------------------------------------

So He was teaching them how to treat each other, not how to conduct themselves regarding sanctification.

He said that Judas was not clean but the others were, and as this was before Pentecost when the holy Spirit would transform them, I understand Him to have also meant that they were not partaking in the sin of Judas.

Saints let me ask something here. Has there been a shifting in redemptive history from Moses to Christ? Has there been a shifting from the shadow to the substance? Has there been a shifting from the letter to the Spirit?

by Tozsu on 2016/5/30 12:26:20

appolus: "It seems so semantical when we are so close to agreeing on almost all things :)"
Here is the reason (of our perceived disagreement): You (and julius) had the law with you since childhood but without the Holy Spirit. You were like the early Jewish believers who grew up under the law. I grew up in a communist country not having the law only my conscience, like the gentile believers. The first thing that came to me was the conviction of the Holy Spirit and grace. After I came to the Lord both the OT and the NT was like a huge gold mine to me of Gods will. I never read the law without the Holy Spirit being with me and explaining it. I really did not know thoroughly what constituted sin before. I was in a desperate need of food to renew my mind.

After a while the church I went to was not providing that food any more and I felt that I was distancing myself from the Lord, I did not grow and walked in the flesh. Gradually went back to the "delicate" sins that I was once clean from.
I did not care that I was sinning I did not even think of God. It was the preaching of the law (by the Holy Spirit) that revived me as someone who already experienced grace and love.

Hi Tozsu,

I can certainly appreciate where you are coming from. Yes, I had all the do's and don'ts drilled into me as a child growing up, yet no power to fulfill any of them. In fact, just the opposite, they showed me how sinful I was and how strong the flesh is, yet I grew up under a false security thinking that I was a member of the "one true church" and all I needed to do was go to confession and my "sins" would be absolved by man.

It certainly was not the preaching of the law that would have saved me, but the grace of God in Christ Jesus is what was missing in my life. When I first heard the gospel, I did not think many people had heard of it. I never heard of the gospel of grace growing up in the U.S., I had to go overseas to hear about it from people of another nation. Not that I was looking for God, but He was certainly looking for me.

When I first heard about the unmerited forgiveness and grace of God, and the true Jesus (as opposed to the false one that is represented by the RCC), my heart melted and I could do nothing and wanted to do nothing else but receive Jesus into my life.

As I have been pondering your testimony, I realized that your path is completely understandable for one who never knew the law and in many cases was innocently doing things others would see as transgressions but God knows our hearts, doesn't He? :-)

I also have appreciated your postings and sense deep roots in the Lord. May we all continue to press ever deeper into Him.

HI Brenda,

Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Jesus was teaching His disciples the vital necessity of treating one an other as they have been treated by God. If God forgives us then we must forgive others. This is further fleshed out by Jesus in the parable of the wicked servant who had been forgiven such a great debt but demanded payment of a much smaller debt from someone else..................bro Frank

Zsuzsanna, can I ask you how long you have been saved for?.......bro Frank

25 but was half dead except the first and last 5.

Hi David, you start out with the title, in bold no less

KEEPERS AND DOERS OF THE LAW.

Dramatic effect aside, you then go on and give Scripture after Scripture of why we should follow the commands of Jesus which was already covered in a previous post from John 6. It is very important not to be confused with THE LAW and the commands of Jesus. ............bro Frank

by appolus on 2016/5/30 17:44:20

Hi David, you start out with the title, in bold no less

KEEPERS AND DOERS OF THE LAW.

Dramatic effect aside, you then go on and give Scripture after Scripture of why we should follow the commands of Jesus which was already covered in a previous post from John 6. It is very important not to be confused with THE LAW and the commands of Jesus. .........

Amen, Frank!

Oops. Accidental post.

Saints if I may I would like to pose my questions again. Has there been a shifting in redemptive history from Moses to Christ? Has there been a shifting from the shadow to the substance? Has there been a shifting from the letter to the Spirit? And I might add has there been a shifting from the law to the gospel? Has there been a shifting from Sinai to Calvary?

Would anyone like to address these questions? For I think the answer to these questions can very well answer what has been discussed on this thread for the last few days.

Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. GAL 3:19

Seems perfectly reasonable and understandable and is backed up by numerous other Scriptures. The law was designed to last until Jesus would come and fulfill it. And fulfill He did. Then the law of God would be written upon the hearts of His children. Righteousness would come the only way that it could come, from the inside out. The law, prior to the coming of Jesus worked on the outside of men and could not produce righteousness. The Lord came and preached the royal law to the saints. No longer would there be an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. No longer would people be stoned, no longer would enemies be hated but now they would be loved and the saints would turn the other cheek.

This is higher and grander and above and beyond anything that had been written. This would require a new heart, one in which God Himself would take up residence. This is the NT. This is the royal law, written upon the hearts of genuine saints no longer confined and restrained by a written code but led and guided by God Himself. This is the mind blowing truth of the Gospel. Religion can never replicate it, religion can only follow a written code and of course not even be able to follow that.

The religionists will worship their written codes of conduct, saints will worship the God who inhabits their very hearts and breaks the shackles and chains of codes. Now their driving force to go above and beyond the rules given to men to constrain them is the life and the love of Christ flowing through their veins. What the law could never do in its limitations, Jesus does by His infinite limitless power operating and abiding in the hearts of every single genuine saint............bro Frank

Also, please check this link: http://www.christinyou.net/pages/lawgod.html - The Law of God
A study of the Law of God, considering the purposes of the Law, and whether those purposes still apply to Christians today.

The sequel to The Law of God is The Grace of God.
http://www.christinyou.net/pages/gracegod.html

LAW
I. Some representative Biblical references to "Law"

A. Old Testament
Exod. 24:12 - "I will give you stone tablets with the law"
Ps. 119:142 - "Thy Law is truth"
Jere. 31:33 - "I will put My Law within them"
Dan. 9:11- "all Israel has transgressed Thy Law"

B. New Testament
Matt. 5:17 - "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law..."
Rom. 3:20 - "by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified"
Rom. 7:7 - "Is the Law sin? May it never be!"
Rom. 10:4 - "Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness"
Rom. 13:10 - "love is the fulfillment of the law" (cf. Gal. 5:14)
Gal. 5:18 - "you are not under the Law"

II. Explanation of the Biblical usage of "Law"

A. Law in the Old Testament
1. Hebrew word torah means "direction, guidance, instruction."
2. Torah is used 220 times in Hebrew Old Testament.
3. Synonymns of "Law" in Old Testament
a. Commandment - Exod. 16:28
b. Ordinance - Lev. 19:37
c. Statute - Lev. 18:4,5
d. Admonition - Neh. 9:34
e. Precept - Ps. 119:168
f. Decree - Ps. 2:7

B. Law in the New Testament
1. Greek word for "law" is nomos.
a. Greeks used the word for social law.
b. Used 196 times in Greek New Testament.
2. Nomos used to refer to Old Testament law.
a. Entire Old Testament - John 10:34;12:34; 15:25
b. First five books - Lk. 24:44; Rom. 3:21
c. Mosaic law; Decalogue - Rom. 5:13,14; Gal. 3:17

III. Judaism interpreted "Law" as a legal codification of behavioral standards

A. Law became regulations of external behavioral activity.

B. Theological categorizations of behavior
1. Religious, ceremonial, ritual, cultic.
2. Civil, social, political, judicial.
3. Moral, ethical, personal, individual.

IV. Purposes of the "Law" within the historical intents of God

A. Instrumental purpose of the Law.
1. To reveal the character of God
2. To reveal sin - Rom. 3:20; 7:7,13
a. Not to promote sin - Rom. 5:20; 7:9; I Cor. 15:56
3. To reveal the coming of Messiah/Savior - Preparational
a. Pictorial.
(1) Promises - Rom. 1:2; 3:21; 16:26
(2) Shadows - Heb. 8:5; 9:9; 10:1; 11:19
b. Custodial.
(1) "In custody" - Gal. 3:23
(2) Paidagogos - Gal. 3:24
(a) Guardian, attendant
(b) Not educator, teacher, tutor

B. NO behavioral purpose of the Law.
1. Law pertained to human behavioral practice, but there was not a divine behavioral purpose.
2. Religious and political man tries to use God's law for functional, behavioral, moral
purposes.

C. NO vital purpose of the Law.
1. God's Life not made available in God's Law.
a. Not in Scripture - John 5:39,40
b. Not in Law - Gal. 3:21
c. Other verses to consider - Rom. 10:5; Gal. 3:12; Rom. 7:10
2. God's Righteousness not made available in God's Law.
a. Jewish religionists thought there was righteousness in the law - Rom. 10:3; Phil. 3:6,9.
b. Paul denies - Rom. 3:20,28; 10:4; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:11; 5:4

V. New Covenant perspective of the Law

A. Affirmation of the Law.
1. Jesus and the Law.
a. Born under the law - Gal. 4:4
b. Disassociated Himself from Law - Jn 8:17; 10:34; 15:25
c. Reinterpreted Law - Matt. 5:21-48
d. Added to Law - John 13:34
2. Law in the rest of the New Testament - Rom. 3:31; 7:12,14,16; 8:4; I Cor. 7:19; Gal. 3:21;
James 4:11; I Jn. 2:3,4; 3:4; 5:2,3

B. Abrogation of the Law.
1. Inadequacy of the Law
a. No life - Gal. 3:21
b. No righteousness - Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21
c. No freedom - Acts 13:29
d. No perfection - Heb. 7:11,12,18,19;8:7
2. Temporality of the Law - Heb. 7:24; 8:13; II Cor. 3:11; Rom. 10:4
3. Abolishing of the Law
a. Objective - Eph. 2:14,15; Col. 2:13,14
b. Subjective
(1) Dead to the Law - Rom. 7:4,6; Gal. 2:19; Col. 2:20
(2) Released from the Law - Rom. 7:6
(3) Not under Law - Gal. 3:25; I Cor. 9:20; Rom. 6:14,15;6:14,15; Gal. 5:18

C. Application of the Law.
1. What purpose would it serve? Instrumental? Behavioral? Vital?
2. To whom would it apply? Jews? Non-Christians? Christians?
3. How should Christians view the Law?
a. Connection
b. Appreciation
c. Not repudiation
d. Not legalism
4. The divine directive of God.
a. Christ, the living Torah
(1) Law of Christ - I Cor. 9:21; Gal. 6:2
(2) law of faith - Rom. 6:14
(3) law of Spirit - Rom. 8:2
(4) perfect law - James 1:25
(5) law of liberty - James 1:25;2:12
(6) royal law - James 2:8
(7) law written on hearts -Heb. 8:10;10:16
b. Law fulfilled in Christian-Rom. 8:4; 13:8,10; Gal. 5:14; 6:2
(1) Grace of God
(2) Ontological dynamic of Jesus Christ