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The New Testament teachers nothing new

B
brothagary

This was interesting ,I always new Jesus taught a combination of the old law and the new Covenent , this article goes in to debts to show just how much of the new Covenent is actually the old laws of God , obviously with out the ordnance .......


The New Testament teaches nothing New

Richard Anthony

Jesus, the apostles, and the entire New Testament books taught nothing new. They might have taught in new ways, but they did not teach us new laws. Everything they taught was from the beginning, and is found in the Old Testament books. That's why Jesus and the apostles commonly preceded their teachings with "it is written,” or "the scriptures saith,” and then proceeded to quote God's written law from the Old Testament. Jesus might have explained what the Old Testament laws meant in different words, such as by using parables and such, but nonetheless, the truths he taught are all found in the Old Testament.

Remember, Jesus was under the Old Testament law:
Galatians 4:4-5, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law,"
Now, who was "under the law"? Jews. And did Christ refer to himself as Jew? Yes, he did (John 4:9,22).

Matthew 5
We will start our study by examining Matthew 5, which is commonly called "The Sermon on the Mount.” The Sermon on the Mount deals with righteous personal conduct. Many people believe Jesus was teaching new truths here, and that Jesus was laying down new laws, and abolishing Old Testament laws. However, this is not true. Each and every statement he says in this chapter is taken directly from the Old Testament. He was not changing God's Law!

As a matter of fact, in the middle of his Sermon on the Mount, he paused to stress the truth that the Old Testament laws have not passed away!

Matthew 5:17-18, "Think not that I came to abolish the law, or the prophets: I came not to abolish, but to fulfil. For verily I say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away from the law, until all be fulfilled."
Jesus stressed that, in no way, will any part of the Old Testament law pass away, not one jot (dotting of the "i”) or one tittle (crossing if the "t”), no part of God's written law in the Old Testament will pass away until two things happen. One, until heaven and earth pass; and two, until all prophesy is fulfilled (Luke 24:44). Jesus did not come to abolish the Old Testament law…period!

Now, why would Jesus begin his sermon by teaching from God's (Old Testament) Law, and then pause in the middle of his sermon to say that none of the Old Testament law would pass away, and then a few minutes later, tell everybody how the Old Testament laws have passed away, and are replaced with new laws? The answer is, he wouldn't, and he didn't.

Therefore, Jesus was telling his audience, "No matter what you hear from my mouth, do not interpret what I am saying as meaning the written law of God is passing away. Because I am not replacing God's Law!" Remember this. Jesus knew that there would be people who would be mis-interpreting his teachings as saying he was abolishing God's Law, or that some parts of it were no longer binding, or were being changed, but Jesus warned his listeners that this would be a false interpretation.

Remember the context. In Matthew 5, verses 17-18, Jesus said he was not changing the Old Testament law, and in verse 19 He stresses to keep God's Commandments, and in verse 20 He accuses the scribes and Pharisees of being self righteous. Now, verses 21 through 48 will be addressed, because many people believe Jesus was changing the Old Testament written laws in these passages! Let us look at them briefly.

Matthew 5:21-22, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill…But I say unto you…"

Matthew 5:27-28, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you…"

Matthew 5:31-32, "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you…"

Matthew 5:33-34, "Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you…"

Matthew 5:38-39, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you…"

Matthew 5:43-44, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you…"
First of all, let's get one thing clear. Jesus was not quoting from the written law of the Old Testament in these verses! Let me repeat that. Jesus was not quoting from the Old Testament laws in these passages! Even the choice of words used by Christ indicates that He was addressing a confusion, or a distortion, that was commonplace. Christ used this same "Ye have heard that it hath been said,” or "it hath been said.” figure of speech to straighten out misunderstandings or falsehoods being taught by the religious leaders of the time. In other words, Jesus was dealing with hearsay statements.

Contrast this to Christ's use of the phrase "It is written" or "The Scripture saith" when He was appealing to the Scriptures for authority (for example, see Matthew 4 where on three occasions during His temptation by the devil, Christ answered each one of the devil's lies or misquotes from Scripture with the words: "it is written").

You may ask, "But the laws such as 'an eye for an eye' are found in the Old Testament. If Jesus was not quoting from the Old Testament, then what was he quoting from?” Yes, most of the above laws in verses 21 through 48 are found in God's Law. But even though Jesus may have been referring to God's Law, Jesus was not quoting from God's Law. Jesus was quoting from man's law! Man's laws always have scriptural truths in them; but when someone quotes these truths in man's laws, even though they have reference to God's Law in scripture, they are still being quoted from man's law itself.

In Jesus' case, the Pharisees and Sadducees took God's Law, from the Old Testament, and applied it to situations that God never intended. They had changed God's Laws. They placed their own commandments and traditions above the Word of God (Mark 7:7-9). Jesus was correcting the laws that the people have "heard” from their religious leaders, and explained these laws as God intended them to be.

For example, Jesus said:
Matthew 5:43-44, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.”
Was Jesus teaching something new?

God's law says, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour” (Leviticus 19:18), but God's law does not say, "hate thine enemy.” The Pharisees were taking God's Law out of context, and added to it, and changed it to mean that we are to hate our enemies, as if the one were a legitimate inference from the other. This is what the people heard from man, but it is not what they read in scripture. However, when Jesus taught we are to love our enemy, Jesus was quoting from the Old Testament (Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, Proverbs 25:21-22). He taught nothing new!

Another example is when Jesus said:
Matthew 5:21-22, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill…But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:"
Was Jesus teaching something new?

God's law says, "thou shalt not kill” (Exodus 20:13), but it certainly does not teach to hate your brother. The Pharisees were teaching it was okay to hate (be angry at) your brothers. But what does the Old Testament say? Leviticus 19:17, "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him." Again, Jesus taught nothing new! He was quoting from scripture! He was correcting them with Old Testament scripture. Jesus was explaining the spiritual meaning of Old Testament laws, using the Old Testament itself! The spiritual meaning in this case would be that before one can commit murder, one must first be angry and hate the one he wants to murder.

Jesus was referring to that anger which leads a man to commit outrages against another, thereby subjecting himself to that punishment which was to be inflicted on those who break the peace. As far as being in danger of judgment, that is, to have the matter brought before a magistrate, whose business it was to judge in such cases.

Another example is when Jesus said:
Matthew 5:33-35, "Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King."
Did Jesus teach something new?

It was not the intention of Jesus to repeal or abolish this law. God's Law allowed, and in some instances required, the administration of an oath made unto the Lord (Exodus 22:11, Numbers 5:19). But the Jews, looking upon this law, construed it as giving them exemption from the binding effect of all other oaths. According to their construction, no oath was binding in which the name of God did not directly occur. They therefore coined many other oaths to suit their purposes, which would add weight to their statements or promises, which, however, would not leave them guilty of being forsworn if they spoke untruthfully.

But Jesus showed that all oaths were ultimately referable to God, and that those who made them would be forsworn if they did not keep them. To prevent this evil practice of loose swearing Jesus lays down the prohibition, "Swear not at all."

Christ does not forbid judicial oaths in this prohibition. This conclusion is also reached when we interpret the prohibition in the light of authoritative examples; for we find that God swore by himself (Genesis 22:16-17; Hebrews 6:13; 7:21); Jesus answered under oath before the Sanhedrin (Matthew 26:63); Paul also made an oath to the Corinthian church (2 Corinthians 1:23) and made solemn appeals to God (Romans 1:9, Galatians 1:20, Philippians 1:8; 1 Corinthians 15:31, 1 Thessalonians 5:27, Revelation 10:5-6).

Therefore, judicial oaths, and oaths taken in the name of God on occasions of solemn religious importance, are not included in the prohibition. But as these are the only exceptions found in Scriptures, we conclude that all other oaths are forbidden. Looking at the details of the paragraph, we find that oaths "by heaven...by the earth...by Jerusalem...and by thy head" are utterly meaningless save as they have reference to God.

Jesus says elsewhere that all who swear at all, do in fact swear by God, or the oath is good for nothing (Matthew 23:22). To swear by an altar, a gift, or a temple, is of no force, unless it be meant to appeal to God himself. The essential thing in an oath is calling God to witness our sincerity. If a real oath is taken, therefore, God is appealed to. If not, it is foolish and wicked to swear by anything else.

Another example is when Jesus said:
Matthew 5:31-32, "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery:"
Did Jesus teach something new?

The Pharisees are the ones who said that it was "...lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause" (Matthew 19:3), And Jesus was correcting them by saying, in Matthew 19:8, "...but from the beginning it was not so.” Some may claim that Jesus was changing the law of Moses which permitted divorce (Deuteronomy 24:1-4). However, when one reads the law of divorce carefully, it tells us that when the woman divorces and remarries another, she will be defiled. The only thing removed was the curse of the law, but the law that said she would be defiled if she married another man did not change. It was still a sin, but God permitted that evil, temporarily, to prevent an even greater evil. It was still God's will, in Moses' time, that divorce not happen, and it was still a sin.

Deuteronomy 24:4, "the former husband who sent her away shall not be able to return and take her to himself for a wife, after she has been defiled."
Jesus was simply teaching the same law that was from the beginning! Jesus taught nothing new!


Another example is when Jesus said:
Matthew 5:38-39, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you…"
Did Jesus teach something new?

Jesus was not saying that the Old Testament law on an eye for an eye has now passed away! Because a few minutes earlier he had just stated that none of the Old Testament law would pass away (Matthew 5:17-18), and Jesus would not contradict himself. So, what was Jesus teaching in this passage?

The reference to "an eye for an eye" is found in Exodus 21:24-25, which deals with how the judges (magistrate) must deal with a crime (Deuteronomy 19:18-21 explains how the judges were to carry out this eye for an eye judgment). Namely, the punishment must fit the crime. The religious leaders of Christ's day had twisted a passage that applied to the magistrates and misused it as a principle of personal revenge. Christ is clearing up a confusion that had led people to think that conduct proper for the magistrates””that is, taking vengeance””was also proper for an individual. This law of retribution was designed to take vengeance out of the hands of personal revenge and commit it to the magistrate.

The Pharisees and their followers misused this law as a principle of personal revenge, so that they could give "tit for tat" to those who harmed them, which is contrary to the injunctions of the Old Testament itself (Proverbs 20:22; 24:29). A law that was meant to be a guide to judges rendering judicial decisions and handing down sentences was never meant to be a rule of our personal relationships. The function of magistrates is to administer the vengeance of God upon evil doers (Romans 13:4), but not so with individuals. Our duty is to love our neighbor as the Lord Jesus has instructed us.

Jesus was teaching from the Old Testament, which specifically stated that if evil is done to us, we are not to do to him as he did to us!

Proverbs 24:29, "Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work."
The reason is because this would be personal revenge. Instead, the duty of rendering to man his evil work is the duty of the majistrates. Jesus taught nothing new.

Another example is when Jesus said:
Matthew 5:27-28, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
Was Jesus teaching something new? No, Jesus was not teaching something new. Just as in all the other examples given in Matthew 5 above, Jesus was teaching directly from the Old Testament. The spiritual meanings of the Old Testament laws are also found in the Old Testament itself.

Please read God's seventh and tenth commandments:

7th Commandment: "Thou shalt not commit adultery." (Exodus 20:14).
10th Commandment: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife." (Exodus 20:17).
In other words, this 10th Commandment says that whosoever "covets, desires, or lusts” after a married woman, has committed adultery with her already in ones heart!!! Why? Because one has broken the 7th Commandment already in one's heart! This is the spiritual meaning of adultery, and this is exactly what Jesus meant when he spoke in Matthew 5:27-28.

Let me ask you a question. When Jesus was teaching about "adultery” in Matthew 5:27, "...Thou shalt not commit adultery", was not Jesus also referring to the 7th Commandment and the sanctity of marriage? And when Jesus was teaching about "lusting” after a woman in Matthew 5:28, was not Jesus also referring to the 10th Commandment? Yes, he was.

Remember, even though such precepts were never before expressed with such breadth, precision, and sharpness, Jesus is only the Interpreter of the Law that has been in force from the beginning. His one object here was to contrast the perversions of the law with the true sense of it.


The Old Testament Scripture is still Binding
Christ used the Old Testament law, which were the "scriptures” of their day, to prove the validity of his own teachings and mission (Luke 24:27). Jesus said if people do not read "Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded" to repent (Luke 16:30-31). Jesus said to "search the Old Testament" and it testifies of Him (John 5:39). In Matthew 22:29-33, Jesus charged the Sadducees with the responsibility to understand the concept of the resurrection of the dead from the Old Testament scripture.

Were the Old Testament Scripture abolished at the Cross?
Paul expected believers to test his words using the Old Testament (Acts 17:11). Paul taught that the Old Testament scripture is "able to make thee wise unto salvation”, and is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness," so "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Tim.3:15-17). He said the Old Testament scripture was written for our learning so we might have hope (Romans 15:4). Paul quotes from the Old Testament scripture, saying it's for our sakes (1 Corinthians 9:9-10).

The apostle Paul kept stressing that the law of Moses was written for their well being. 1 Corinthians 9:9-10, "For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn…For our sakes, no doubt, this is written." Obviously, Paul did not look at the Mosaic Law as abolished after Jesus died.

Acts 17:10-12, "And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed..."
The brethren in Berea validated the apostles Paul and Silas every day. They verified their words with scripture. Dear reader, what scripture were they testing their words with? With the Old Testament scripture! What happened after they read the Old Testament scripture? Many of the believed! How? This is how:

Romans 10:17, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
The Word of God, at that time, was the Old Testament scripture. It was not abolished at the cross!

The first disciple of Christ to be killed for his faith was Steven. He preached to his accusers just before he was stoned to death by them, and he preached directly from the Old Testament scripture (Acts 7).

Why should Christ tell the disciples to "Go and make disciples of all the nations...teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:19-20) when most of what he had spoken was irrelevant because the old covenant was only to be in force while he was in the flesh? Turning to Paul, the clear implication of his citation of Genesis 15:6 and Habakkuk 2:4 (such as in Galatians 3:6, 11) is that men are saved the same way under both the Old Covenant and the New. He noted that "David also speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works" (Romans 4:6) before citing from Psalms 32, which implies that salvation of the Old Testament was like that of the New Testament.

The role of the law or obedience relative to salvation or justification was the same for the Jews before the crucifixion as it is for bondservants of Christ today in God's sight, even if Jewish tradition and the oral law saw it otherwise. Consider that when Paul wrote this to Timothy that parts of the New Testament did not yet exist, or at least had not been likely all gathered together: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness..." (II Timothy 3:16). Having made in the preceding verses a reference to Timothy being raised a believer in the true God through the "sacred writings" (II Timothy 3:14-15), Paul obviously primarily had the Old Testament in mind when he wrote this. If the Old Testament is so largely irrelevant to believers in Christ, why would Paul say this, after citing the Exodus and Israel wandering in the wilderness: "Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come" (I Corinthians 10:11; compare I Corinthians 10:6 and Romans 4:23-24).

Salvation is of the Jews
An interesting verse which bears consideration is this, spoken by Jesus Christ himself:

John 4:22, "...we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."
Jesus was intimating to the samaritan woman that Salvation was not a thing left to be reached by any one who might vaguely desire it of a God of mercy, but something that had been revealed, prepared, deposited with a particular people, and must be sought in connection with, and as issuing from them; and that people, "the Jews."

This they knew because God had commanded it; because they worshipped in a place appointed by God, and because they did it in accordance with the direction and teaching of the prophets. They have the true religion and the true form of worship; and the Messiah, who will bring salvation, is to proceed from them (Luke 2:30; 3:6). Jesus thus affirms that the Jews had the true form of the worship of God. At the same time he was sensible how much they had corrupted it, and on various occasions reproved them for it.

This does not mean that all the Jews were saved, nor that it was not possible but that many of the Gentiles and Samaritans might be saved, for in every nation he that fears God and works righteousness is accepted of him; but The author of eternal salvation comes of the Jews, appears among them (Romans 9:5), and is sent first to bless them. The means of eternal salvation are afforded to them. The word of salvation (Acts 13:26) was of the Jews. It was delivered to them, and other nations derived it through them. This was a sure guide to them in their devotions, and they followed it, and therefore knew what they worshipped. To them were committed the oracles of God (Romans 3:2), and the service of God (Romans 9:4).

Jesus was referring to "we Jews" when he spoke to the samaritan woman, and placed himself in the category of "Jews." The Messiah, God's Son, was a Jew. The Messiah was to spring from the Jews - from them, the preaching of the Gospel, and the knowledge of the truth, were to go to all the nations of the world. It was to the Jews that the promises were made.

More Old Testament laws that Remain
The New Testament command to be circumcised of heart (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:11) is an Old Testament doctrine (Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6; Jeremiah, 4:4, Leviticus 26:41).

James 2:10, "sin in one, guilty of all” (see also Galatians 3:10 and Matthew 26:66) is from Deuteronomy 27:26.

1 John 3:4, "sin is the transgression of the law" (see also Romans 4:15 and James 2:9) can be seen in 1 Samuel 15:24 and Daniel 9:11.

The command for believers to not marry unbelievers (1 Corinthians 7:39, 2 Corinthians 6:14) is found in Deuteronomy 7:3.

When Jesus said, at Matthew 7:14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." this was a different way to re-phrase Deuteronomy 5:32.

Matthew 22:36-40, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." is taken, word for word, from Deuteronomy 6:5, "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." and Leviticus 19:18, "...thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself..."

Jesus did not replace the Law, nor give any new commandment, which is why He said:

1 John 2:7, "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning."


Your Questions Answered
1) You claim that Jesus taught nothing new, and that Jesus did not change the penalty of adultery. But Jesus did change the penalty of adultery! He did not condemn a woman caught in the very act of adultery!


John 8:3-11, "And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

Answer: This passage clearly shows us that Jesus was following God's Law, not changing it. It would have been strange if Jesus, when he was not a judge (verse 15), and had not the witnesses before him to examine them (verse 10), nor a confession from the accused, and when she had not been tried and condemned by the law and legal judges, should have taken upon him to condemn her. This being the case, it appears why Jesus avoided giving an answer to the question of the scribes and Pharisees.

What took place in John 8 follows the Old Testament law on punishing adultery. A woman accused of adultery could not be stoned to death if:

She did not confess her crime, or
There were no witnesses (Numbers 35:30, Deuteronomy 17:6; 19:15), and
There was no judge to pronounce sentence (Deuteronomy 19:17-21).
When Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn thee," this is to be taken in the sense of judicial condemnation, or of passing sentence as a magistrate, for this was what they had arraigned her for in front of him. It was not to obtain his opinion about adultery, but to obtain the condemnation of the woman. As he claimed no authority to magistrate, he said that he did not exercise it, and should not condemn her to die.

This is proven by Jesus' statement a few verses later, when he said, "I judge no man" (John 8:15). Elsewhere, Jesus said, "who made me a judge or a divider over you?" (Luke 12:14). Jesus also said, "for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" (John 12:47). Jesus was not a judge, so he could not pass judgment upon the woman. And even if he was a judge, God's Law prohibited him from passing judgment without any accusers or witnesses.

When Jesus said, "He that is without sin among you [He that is not guilty: his own conscience being the judge], let him [as a witness] first cast a stone at her" (verse 7), he was actually confirming God's Law, not changing it. Under the law, the witnesses were to cast the first stone (Deuteronomy 17:7-8). Jesus maintained and vindicated the law, but imposed a condition which they had overlooked. The one who executed the law must be free from the same crime, lest by stoning the woman he condemn himself as worthy of a like death.

This was in order that the witness might feel his responsibility in giving evidence, as he was also to be the executioner. Jesus therefore put them to the test. Without pronouncing on her case, he directed them, if any of them were innocent, to perform the office of executioner. This was said, evidently, well knowing their guilt, and well knowing that no one would dare to do it.

Jesus considered her act of adultery to be a sin, he did not change that. He told her, "Go, and sin no more." In other words, Jesus basically told her, "You have sinned. You have been detected and accused. The sin is great. But I do not claim power to condemn you to die, and, as your accusers have left you, my direction to you is that you sin no more."

Therefore, this passage teaches us:

1st. That Jesus claimed no authority to magistrate.
2nd. That he regarded the action of which they accused her as sin.

3rd. That he knew the hearts and lives of men.

4th. That men are often very zealous in accusing others of that of which they themselves are guilty. And,

5th. That Jesus was endowed with wonderful wisdom in meeting the devices of his enemies, and eluding their deep-laid plans to involve him in ruin.

The scribes and Pharisees were the prosecutors and they brought her before Jesus to be the judge. They argued that Moses commanded that such a woman should be stoned. But they wanted to know how this new King Jesus would respond.

Verse six reveals their evil intent. They were tempting him, that they might accuse Him. Jesus stooped down and with his finger wrote on the ground as if he had not heard them. Finally Jesus said, "He that is without sin among you, cast the first stone." Jesus was putting them on trial first. If they wanted to judge her, then they needed to be on trial first. The scribes and Pharisees must have been outraged. "Hey, she didn't pay the full penalty of the law." But, they left her alone because their lives were also in sin.

Jesus also knew full well that none of them could even pretend to be sinless with any degree of believability. In bringing the woman accused of adultery, they had all conspired to sin! A woman cannot be found in the act of adultery without also a man being found with her, yet no man was brought with the accused. Also, as far as the guilty are concerned, Moses’ law says that "they” shall surely be put to death, not that "she” alone shall be put to death.

S
sermonindex

Brother, no offense and I say this in love, but the title to this thread would have to be one of the most hair-brained, cockamamie statements I have ever read on Sermon Index:-)

Just say it this way...slowly for effect...

"There is nothing NEW taught in the NEW testament."

T
TMK

I actually think it was the title of the article by Mr Anthony, which makes it even worse.

I always wonder why those who teach the OT law applies to us today do not also teach the punishments for breaking said laws DONT apply to us today. Guess they don't have the stomach for it.

S
sermonindex

Exactly brother Todd. Mr Anthony could not have been more misguided with such a statement. What kind of believers are produced under such a mindset? To suggest the new testament teaches nothing new is mind boggling??? I shudder to imagine what it must be like living in such churches and households with people who hold to these ideas. You say that they fail to teach the punishments, but I think many of them actually do but in new forms. Those who push the Law also tend to push consequences. Living with them is a living hell because they have not grasped the grace and Truth found only in Christ Jesus. They have plenty of doctrine about Jesus but none of His life. Sadly, it is the children raised in such households who suffer the most and end up with such a skewed concept of Christianity that many of them never recover.

S
sermonindex

The nature of any law is that there is an accompanying penalty with the breaking of that law. If there is no penalty then it is not a law.

Jesus did teach something new:

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

In the old testament it was an "eye for an eye."

S
sermonindex

Amazing. I have always heard this part taught differenty but I am convinced that this is true. I never payed attention before that the phrase "you heard that it has been said" did not actually mean "God said it".
The title seems offensive but completely explained by the text.

S
sermonindex

Dear sister,
How is this thread any different from the others? I am not sure what Gary and yourself and others are attempting to explain? Why such an interest in the Law and in keeping the Law? What good can it do for the born again believer to travel down this path? I submit to you that this is precisely the distraction that the "men from James" brought to the Galatian church. If we have begun by the Spirit why would we look to the Law to finish us out? To continue in this vein of elevating the Law and citing its merits is a slippery slope and dangerous path, in my oppinion.

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Awakened, let's discuss the text not the title only. Where in your opinion does the writer make a mistake?

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Sorry sister I cannot separate the text from the title, nor the reason for Gary posting it. Where does the writer make the mistake? There is no mistake in the Law, it is intended for a purpose...to expose sin and punish it. But we are no longer under law, but under grace. This is the basis of the ENTIRE New Testament; which is why the authors premise is rediculous. The fact that Jesus repeats the Law is not a mystery and in fact He ups the ante and adds to the Law by making His demands even higher. But what is His point? To suggest that we need to obey the Law and obey Him? Is that what you think the point is? To tell sinners they need to be obedient? Brother Frank has made some stunning and extremely helpful posts in the other "Law" thread that need to be read by everyone. I would do it a disservice to try to add to his statements, except to say that Jesus did not come to tell us to obey the Law but to show us the way into the Holy of Holies which requires us to be born again of the Spirit. Only then can anyone keep the Law. This is what is NEW about the NEW Testament.

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proudpapa

The problem with this artical is not so much in the content itsself, it makes some good points

The problem with the artical is in the misunderstanding of when the New Testament or new covanant begain.

add: clarity

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The article should not have been posted on SI in the first place. On his website the author asks for money in a weird way and also asks if any single christian women out there would be interested in him lol. Very weird, just like the title of his article:-)

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It is true the law cannot pass away, but that does not mean that the NT believer lives by the law. The NT Believer lives by the Spirit, the life of Christ. How does one get free from a law that cannot bring a new heart, forgiveness of enemies, peace and communion with God and resurrection life?

The answer is in Romans 7. The law will never die as long as this world exists, so you and I must die to be free to "serve another".

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also ARE BECOME DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST; THAT YE SHOULD BE MARRIED TO ANOHTER, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, THE MOTION OF SINS WHICH WERE BY THE LAW, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom 7:6 BUT NOW WE ARE DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

"The Christian...life is dynamic. Each situation, like each person, is novel. The command of God is not a general rule, or collection of rules. It is always particular for a person at this moment, in this situation. In the unity recovered through grace, in the union with God, we are in the presence of quite a different ethical orientation. It can only be lived in Christ. There is no Christian life without the action of the Holy Spirit, without His inspiration and guidance. The necessity for God's intervening to guide our lives puts an end to our pretending to erect a Christian morality. Christian living does not exist as a morality; for he who lives it, lives by it. He does not follow commandments nor achieve objectives. He lives by the word of God which nourishes him, guides him, and carries him. There is not one Christian life. There are as many Christian lives as there are Christians. One lives in ever-surprising novelty. (Jacques Ellul - To Will and To Do)

"Christianity seems at first to be all about morality, all about duties and rules and guilt and virtue, yet it leads you on, out of all that, into something beyond. One has a glimpse of a country where they do not talk of those things, except perhaps as a joke. Every one there is filled full with what we should call goodness as a mirror is filled with light. But they do not call it goodness. They do not call it anything. They are not thinking of it. They are too busy looking at the source from which it comes." (C. S. Lewis - Mere Christianity)

"The Christian is in a different position from other people who are trying to do good. The Christian thinks any good he does come from the Christ-life inside him. He does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us..." (C. S. Lewis - Mere Christianity)


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I got curious about the article and did some Googling regarding Richard Anthony. He and others have a website found at www.ecklesia.org. In browsing the web site I found a number of different articles on various aspects of the Christian faith. They are heavy into the King James majority text. I do not know if they are King James only. Also Richard Anthony and his associates definitely believe we are under the Ten Commandments today. I do not see what their position is on the Saturday Sabbath. Something to be taken into consideration if one is going to hold that we are under the Ten Commandments in this age.

In skimminh the articles on the different subjects on the website I see things that are elements of truth. But definitely see things that raise a red flag. They appear to have a convoluted doctrine of salvation. It is almost saying that you can believe in Jesus. But faith in Jesus is not enough. You have to do good works. Probably coming from the law. Time did not allow me to go and analyze all of the articles. But definitely see things to raise a red flag.

I get warning signals when I see things that are so complicated that the agenda is hidden. This is what I got off of the website. The truth is hidden in such wordiness. One cannot really pin where these folks are coming one from.

I would advise caution in this article. I would advise caution and checking out the website. Again there are things that raise a red flag.

But perhaps one with a more discerning Spirit come look at the website and give a better report if their time permits. Again I urge caution.

Brothers and sisters simply my thoughts.

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proudpapa

Are they Hebrew Roots ? That was the feeling that I got from the artical

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Both in the old and in the new testament those who kept the spirit of the law (as in God's will) were blessed. Those were also the ones who had faith.The spirit of the commandments given to Moses and the spirit of God's will for us is the same, has to be the same because God is not changing. Was Abraham or David justified by keeping the letter of the law? No, they were justified by faith just as we are, and these old testament saints were also given the hope and the promise of the Messiah. Jesus was slained from the beginning of the world. The difference is that the OT saints were hoping for it we have it. Was Saul justified by keeping the law (the letter of it) when he offered the animals as Sacrifice for God when he disobeyed His direct command not to keep any alive at the first place? No. What God wanted both in the old and the new testament is obedience. He said he did not want sacrifices but justice, mercy, righteous judgement.

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Brother I did not get the impression that they were Hebrew Roots. Though some of the Hebrew Roots may figure into their theology. I think they're a mixture of hyper fundamentalism and law works. Also in their eschatology they appear to embrace praetetism. Add to that an emphasis on the King James. (Sorry bro not meant as an insult to you)


Anyway put all of this together it comes out to something pretty weird. Still not able to figure out where these folks are coming from. But I sure get a big red flag on it.

My thoughts bro.

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Tozsu do you believe that we should keep Saturday as the Sabbath. Because if you are going to keep the decalogue. Saturday will have to be observed as the Sabbath. Technically it should be observed from Sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday.

Not trying to trip you up sister. But just wondering what your views were on the Sabbath.

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this will be another 100 plus post thread in a few days, full of "opinion", plenty of non contextual Scriptural references....in short, just words, words, words.

this forum used to be a wonderful place.

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docs

The teachings of Christ and the early church as recorded in the New Testament provided new and vital insight into understanding the ways and times of God's redemptive plan in Christ.

The New Testament revealed,

1) The advent of Israel's Messiah would be a two fold advent instead of one. The OT had provided details of the coming of the Christ but hidden among the prophetic writings was the fact and understanding that this coming would be two fold.

5 But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, "Where are you going?"

6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.

7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; (John 16:5-7)

3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you to Myself...(John 14:3)

2) The powers of the age to come would be brought into this age before the Day of the Lord.

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the POWERS OF THE AGE TO COME,...(Heb 6:4-5)

From the writings of the prophets it was commonly assumed that the coming of the Messiah would coincide with the Day of the Lord which would end this age and serve as a transition point into the Messianic age to come when the Holy Spirit would be poured out in abundance (Ezek 39:29 and a host of others). Yet by believers receiving the Holy Spirit ("and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:4) Christ unexpectedly brought the powers of the age to come into this age. Thus the Day of the Lord when the Messiah was to appear and the Messianic age was to begin begin actually became the day of Christ's second advent yet he kingdom and the power thereof was "already" at hand and at work though we have "not yet" seen the full manifestation. The two ages are overlapping - the age to come nd the powers therein are presently overlapping into this age BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

Now it was understood that in the interim between the two advents of the Christ t that the Messiah would live not with His believers but within them by His Spirit - Christ in you the hope of glory. Perhaps a basic fact that has taken on somewhat of a common mundane belief but this was a revelation of astonishing significance in the understanding of God's redemptive purposes.

3) The Gentiles were to be sought and brought in then and not later as commonly assumed. The thought was that when the Messiah appeared at the Day of the Lord (the last day in Hebrew thought, resurrection day)then He would vanquish Israel's eschatological enemies and then the Gentiles would be brought in. Yet Paul explained a astounding mystery not previously revealed.

3 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles””

2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you;

3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.

4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit

6 to be specific, that THE GENTILES ARE FELLOW HEIRS AND FELLOW MEMBERS OF THE BODY, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, (Ephe 3:1-6)

So thijkgs written in the OT but yet still hidden from our understanding was revealed in specific detail in the days of Christ and the early church and the recording of the New Testament.

1) The advent of Israel's Messiah would be a two fold advent instead of one.

2) The powers of the age to come would be brought into this age BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

3) The Gentiles were to sought and brought in THEN and not later as commonly assumed.

Blessings.

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Tozu wrote: Both in the old and in the new testament those who kept the spirit of the law (as in God's will) were blessed. Those were also the ones who had faith.The spirit of the commandments given to Moses and the spirit of God's will for us is the same, has to be the same because God is not changing. Was Abraham or David justified by keeping the letter of the law? No, they were justified by faith just as we are, and these old testament saints were also given the hope and the promise of the Messiah. Jesus was slained from the beginning of the world. The difference is that the OT saints were hoping for it we have it. Was Saul justified by keeping the law (the letter of it) when he offered the animals as Sacrifice for God when he disobeyed His direct command not to keep any alive at the first place? No. What God wanted both in the old and the new testament is obedience. He said he did not want sacrifices but justice, mercy, righteous judgement.

That is exactly how I see it as well. The two covenants have been there from the start as typified by the two trees. Keeping the law in the flesh was in the OT too and some had faith and trusted in God instead because they knew they could not keep the law 100% The cross stands in the centre of all time and all events and the benefits go back as well as forwards.

For Christians, they believe that they are okay if they try to keep the commandments but again, that is not sufficient as it was not in the Old. They must be delivered from the curse of the law and walk in the power of the Holy Spirit so that hey can keep the whole law.


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proudpapa

RE: ///Also in their eschatology they appear to embrace praetetism///

Yes, It appears they are indeed true preterist and not just wrongfully called preterist as many of us on SI are wrongfully labled.

By his standards I believe all of us on SI would beconsidered futrist.

they write : ///Just for the record, only those who believe that the Scriptures teach that all the events related to Christ's Parousia (i.e. "Second Advent," the resurrection and judgment, etc.) are past deserve the name "Preterist." All others are simply futurists of a sort.///

also they write :

///.. I no longer believe that the second coming is future. Now listen carefully, I am not saying I don't believe in the second coming of Christ, I strongly believe in the second coming, but I believe it is past not future...///

http://ecclesia.org/truth/paradigm.html

I am certainly not in agreement with them!!

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dfella

Very good teaching on the subject Gary.

Julius said,

"The nature of any law is that there is an accompanying penalty with the breaking of that law. If there is no penalty then it is not a law."

There is absolutely an accompanying penalty for sins in the NT. What am I missing here????

Every sin must be paid for and I see the accompanying penalty for our sins as death, either Jesus' death or our death.

Therefore there are two ways to pay for our sins, one choice is to pay for them ourselves in the lake of fire (2nd death) for the wages of sin is death, or we have our sins paid for in the cross by putting our trust, hope, faith, and obedience in Jesus Christ.

How is it that Jesus' death is not seen as a penalty and that He paid the price for our sins?

When I read the statement that His death was somehow NOT a penalty and payment for our sins does not compute??


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by Tozsu on 2016/5/31 11:02:12

Both in the old and in the new testament those who kept the spirit of the law (as in God's will) were blessed.

Because their faith is what pleased God.

Those were also the ones who had faith.

And you just said that. Agreed.


The spirit of the commandments given to Moses and the spirit of God's will for us is the same, has to be the same because God is not changing.

God is not changing but Jesus "FULFILLED the Law". In other words He was the personification of the spirit of the law and He even went further.

Often, Jesus would say, 'Ye have heard it said.....BUT, I SAY TO YOU".

Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matt 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matt 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matt 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Matt 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matt 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

Mat_12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luke 10:12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

Jesus, showed a new way, and then He demonstrated (lived) it. Now, when He says, "But, I say to you", remember He is greater than the temple, than the law, so we are to obey Christ. The "Law of Christ" is to obey every word He speaks to you, personally and His words are always motivated by love and demand that we be motivated by love (His life). We must operate out of His life not out of any rules, regulations, or even out of written commandments if we are not operating in LOVE. Because, if we are not, then the letter will surely kill.


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I am not sure if those at Ecclesia.org believe in the penal substitution of Christ. That is Christ being our substitute on the cross to appease the wrath of God. Thus we accept His atoning work by faith.

It seems those on that website make it a mixture of faith and works. The doctrine of salvation appears to be quite murky. This raises a red flag.

My thoughts.


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Double post


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by dfella on 2016/5/31 11:27:10

Very good teaching on the subject Gary.

Julius said,

"The nature of any law is that there is an accompanying penalty with the breaking of that law. If there is no penalty then it is not a law."

There is absolutely an accompanying penalty for sins in the NT. What am I missing here????

Every sin must be paid for and I see the accompanying penalty for our sins as death, either Jesus' death or our death.

Therefore there are two ways to pay for our sins, one choice is to pay for them ourselves in the lake of fire (2nd death) for the wages of sin is death, or we have our sins paid for in the cross by putting our trust, hope, faith, and obedience in Jesus Christ.

How is it that Jesus' death is not seen as a penalty and that He paid the price for our sins?

When I read the statement that His death was somehow NOT a penalty and payment for our sins does not compute??

dfella, not sure where you are coming from. I was referring to those who want to live by OT law must also live by it's penalties. The penalties have not gone away. But, the biggest penalty is that one has fallen from grace if they seek to be justified by the law.

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sermonindex

That is the problem with the OP. Richard Anthony does not believe and the distinction of an old and the New Covenant. He does not see redemptive history as moving from the shadow to the substance.


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proudpapa

Bro Mark,

you wrote : RE: ///On his website the author asks for money in a weird way and also asks if any single christian women out there would be interested in him lol. Very weird///

Could you please post the link to this.

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Just google the title of this thread and click on the first link. I think brother Blaine already posted the link. The stuff about money is actually quite common with so called online "ministers" today but when you say you share your thoughts online for free but in the next breath state "we don't want your money but if you feel led here is how we want it"...well that's just creepy to me and raises red flags. But to be advertising that you are a single man on the lookout for single women on a ministry website is just weird. But hey, that's just me...ymmv:-)

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Blain, here is a very good article about the Sabbath. I believe it is by John Mcarthur
http://www.gty.org/resources/questions/QA135/are-the-sabbath-laws-binding-on-christians-today

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Here again is the link to the website in question,

www.ecclesia.org

Again use caution and discernment.

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Thank you sister. Read the article. Raises questions about law observances. But that will be another thread. But thank you for posting the link.

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"Raises questions..."

Brother, it's John McCalvin...say no more:-)

Anyone who wanders down his rabbit hole is in for a world of hurt.

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Sree

I do not agree with this article. The author clearly did some research, might be from Bible school knowledge. But I do not find any revelation in his writings. If New Covenant was clearly revealed to him instead of someone teaching him, he will never title or write about New Covenant this way. Anyone can read a word and get knowledge but it is the Holy Spirit who can give revelation. The value of New Covenant should be revealed.

Jesus did not abolish the law but he gave a new interpretation to law and there by raised the bar higher. That is why he said the Greatest man to have lived in Old Covenant is John the Baptist, but the least in Kingdom of God (New Covenant disciple of Jesus) should be greater than John in terms of Standard of life.

The 10th commandment was impossible for someone who lived in Old Covenant to keep. Even apostle Paul agreed to his failure in keeping the 10th commandment.

Romans 7:7:-
What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Far from it! Indeed I would not have known what it was to covet if the law had not said, "Do not covet." But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire.

God gave one command (10th commandment) just to show Jews that by their own strength they cannot keep it.

But today with the power of Holy Spirit, we should be able to keep it, else Jesus was a liar when he said our standard is greater than the greatest man under Old Covenant.

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Sree said: "Jesus did not abolish the law but he gave a new interpretation to law and there by raised the bar higher."

That's what I used to think before I read the article.
But the point of the article is that Jesus did not give a new interpretation of the law of God but explained the original intention of the law thereby correcting the pharisee's twisted interpretation. When Jesus said "You have heard it was said" He did not mean it was said by God or Moses, but it was said by the jewish teachers (who misunderstood it).


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Neil, you wrote:

"..........in short, just words, words, words."

reminds me of

"It's only words
And words are all I have
To take your heart away

It's only words
And words are all I have
To take your heart away

Da da da da da da da
Da da da da da da da da da da
Da da da da da da da
Da da da da da da da da da da"


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Sree



That's what I used to think before I read the article.
But the point of the article is that Jesus did not give a new interpretation of the law of God but explained the original intention of the law thereby correcting the pharisee's twisted interpretation.

Is not explaining the original intention of law giving a new interpretation? For example earth always revolved around sun, but people believed the other way, when someone corrected them was his idea not new and contrary to what others have believed?

Same way the truths that Jesus showed in Sermon on the mount was always inside law but people could not understand it. Then Jesus came and showed the intention behind each law and raised the law to its true standard.

If Jesus taught nothing new then what is the new wine that Jesus talked about that has to be poured into new wine skin?

Like I asked in my previous post, if New Covenant is same old laws of Old Covenant and nothing new then how could the least said under New Covenant be the greater than the greatest man under Old Covenant?

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MrBillPro

I really don't understand all this, will I still be able to get into Heaven if I don't understand all this?

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Sree:
Is not explaining the original intention of law giving a new interpretation? 

Yes it is.
The pharisees slightly changed the laws because they figured that in the original form they could not keep them. They did not have the sight of the Messiah because they did not have faith. They could keep their twisted version and were proud of it.
New vine:
It is not that the law is different but the way of keeping it is different. Now we have power to actually keep it by the Holy Spirit.

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Sree


The pharisees slightly changed the laws because they figured that in the original form they could not keep them.

I think Jesus did not come to just correct the interpretation of Law that the Pharisees changed or interpreted wrongly. Though he did that as well, the purpose is to portray a correct picture of God.

Under Old Covenant they saw God as a hard task master, who is not happy with them if they miss even one law. That is why the teachers placed huge burdens on others, while they themselves did/Could not even lift it.

Jesus came and presented God as a father. Who wants us to obey Him, and is also able to work within us to obey him.

I believe with the idea of God that people of Old Covenant had, they could not keep commandments nor can they interpret it correctly!

The fundamental difference between Old and New Covenant is the difference between Exodus 20 and Hebrews 8. In Exodus 20 each commandments start with 'Thou shall' but in Hebrews 8 each commandments start with 'I will'. It is God who is working inside us to Will and to do.

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"Jesus came and presented God as a father. Who wants us to obey Him, and is also able to work within us to obey him."

I agree with this, and this is the most important.

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The New Covenant is Christ Himself actually living and dwelling within us.

It is HIS LIFE - Not ours!

Gal 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

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sree said:
"I think Jesus did not come to just correct the interpretation of Law that the Pharisees changed or interpreted wrongly."

Of course this is not all he came for. But this was the purpose of the sermon on the mount which is referenced by the article. At that occasion Jesus was talking to the pharisees and all those who were taught by them. It's focus was to uphold the law and its original meaning.

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Sister respectfully Matthew 5:1 says,

...When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain and after He sat down, his disciples came to Him...

In Luke 6:17-19, Luke's shorter account of The Sermon on the Mount,

..Jesus came down with them and still on a level place; and there was a large crowd of his disciples, and a great throng of people from all Judea and Jerusalem and the coastal region of Tyre and Sidon, who had come to hear Him and to be healed of their diseases; and those who were troubled with unclean spirits were being cured. And all the people were trying to touch him, and power was coming from Him and healing them all..

My sister not trying to split hairs here. But you said he was talking to the Pharisees in The Sermon on the Mount. The text in both Matthew and Luke do not support this. Jesus was talking to the common people of his day. As such he was introducing a totally radical new way of teaching. Later which would be incorporated into what we know as the law of Christ.

There may have been Pharisees present in the crowd. But Jesus was not reinterpreting the Mosaic law for the benefit of the Pharisees as the OP suggest. But Jesus was teaching a radical new way to live in his kingdom. A kingdom which would eventually be ushered in by his death on the cross.

My thoughts as gleamed from scripture.

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by Tozsu on 2016/5/31 13:07:28

That's what I used to think before I read the article.
But the point of the article is that Jesus did not give a new interpretation of the law of God but explained the original intention of the law thereby correcting the pharisee's twisted interpretation. When Jesus said "You have heard it was said" He did not mean it was said by God or Moses, but it was said by the jewish teachers (who misunderstood it).


I agree with the statement, above.

David ate the shewbread in the temple.

Mar 2:26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

Yes, the Pharisees added to the Word of God and took away from the Word of God. They are they which justify themselves and bind heavy burdens on others that they themselves would not carry.

All they do, Jesus said is to look good on the outside to men, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Yes, they changed the law of God for themselves but not for others.

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Julius respectfully I do not agree with the statement by our sister. For that matter I do not agree with the OP. Jesus is not reinterpreting a twisted view of Old Testament law. But Jesus is showing us a new way of radical New Testament living which would be in his kingdom. The context of The Sermon on the Mount is in the Book of Matthew. Matthew is showing the Jews that Jesus is the long-awaited messiah who comes to bring his kingdom. The Sermon on the Mount is as it were the Magna Carta or the constitution of that Kingdom.

I could go on but I will simply stop here.

My thoughts.

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Blain said:
"But you said he was talking to the Pharisees in The Sermon on the Mount."
I did not say that. This is what I said:
"At that occasion Jesus was talking to the pharisees and all those who were taught by them."
(by "all those" I meant a lot of people.)

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If Jesus is reinterpreting Old Testament law then somebody please tell me where do you find these last two Beatitudes in Matthew 5:10-12,

... Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
... Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

To the best of my knowledge no such teaching is found in the Old Testament. But this is New Kingdom teaching for those believers who would be persecuted for the Lord Jesus Christ.

Consider Matthew 5:38-39,

You have heard that it was said, AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FIR A TOITH. But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

This is certainly no reinterpretation of the Twisted view of the law of Moses. If anything the law of Moses prescribed retribution for anyone done harm to them. As Jesus said you have heard that it was said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. The law of Moses prescribed retribution.

But Jesus is teaching a radical new way that we don't resist evil people by an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth. But rather to accept the persecution and injustice that may come. Again this is radical Kingdom living.

Also in Matthew 5 43 4:45 we see,

You have heard that it was said, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Where on Earth was love for one's enemy ever taught in the Old Testament. To the best of my knowledge having listen to the Bible on audio I have never heard such a teaching as prescribed in the Old Testament. If anything this is a radical new teaching that will be lived out by the sink in the New Covenant in the Kingdom of Christ.

Just some thoughts as being from scripture.

S
sermonindex

Sister respectfully there may have been Pharisees present in the crowds that Jesus was talking to. But in both Matthew and Luke accounts it seemed that Jesus was talking to the simple common people of His day. As such he was gearing this teaching for them of a kingdom that would come. And how they were to live out the ethic of Christ in that Kingdom.

Some of them may have been taught by the Pharisees. But his message was to the crowds and not to the Pharisees. At least that is what I gleaned from the text.

Anyway simply my thoughts.

S
sermonindex

Primarily he talked to the crowd who were taught by the pharisees. (Maybe Jarius was there and some others from the pharisees.) How do I know? Because He said to the crowd:
"ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time"

S
sermonindex

In reading the Gospels, the Pharisees always seemed to be around when Jesus was talking to the people. They had their "interests" to protect so they certainly would want someone keeping an eye or ear out for what Jesus was saying. Their kingdom of men paying homage and obeisance to them was in danger so they certainly had their men following Jesus and Jesus knew they were in the crowd. The Pharisees made themselves known far too much as they could not resist trying to trap Jesus and thus discredit Him in front of the people.

They even came to His baptism:
Matt 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

He always told the people to beware of what the Pharisees added to or took away from God's Word. He warned the people about "mixture".

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

S
sermonindex

you asked this pertinent, yet plaintive question;

"I really don't understand all this, will I still be able to get into Heaven if I don't understand all this?"

oh dear brother......I don't know, could it be that your very salvation hangs by the most slender of threads, because you don't post incessantly?...nor do I.....is our eternal fate, DAMNATION?!?

whilst the same group engages in long and turgid posts, I don't know where they find the time...myself, today I had to place a hospice order on my mother, 80 years old, I am her guardian, for the past year, she has been SUFFERING with both blindness and dementia, calling out everyday, "help me , help me"....its heart rending Bill, for all of 2015, and to this day, I have been absolutely grief stricken, bearing this alone in a human sense, God the Father, Messiah Jesus and the Holy Spirit have been the One holding me together, as I ponder my mother's soul in the light of eternity.

Though my answer above to you was tongue in cheek, I find threads like this, an utterly abysmal witness, a sort of either "religious porn" or incessant posting, an idol, a religious idol....just terrible, terrible witness, no fear of God.

Bill?....if you remember, please say a prayer for an elderly woman about to cross the river, and for her son to be given wisdom and love to speak Words of Life to her...will you?....in Jesus love, neil

S
sermonindex

Neil

I posted this to Times Square Church prayer group a few seconds ago.
(These people really pray)

My friend Neil's mom is about to leave this world.
Jewish and needs Jesus, Please pray for her and Neil. Thank you and God bless you

Lord bless you and help you and your mom at this time.

Arise, Shine for the light may come and the glory of the Lord be risen upon you,
Isaiah 60:1

S
sermonindex

I do, fore taking the heart to do for that for my mother.

in Jesus love, neil

B
brothagary

Exo 23:4,5 If thou meet thine enemy’s ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.
Pro 25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
Pro 24:17 Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:
Pro 29:10 The bloodthirsty hate the upright: but the just seek his soul.

This is not someone you do if you hate your enemy.......

B
brothagary

Oh ,yea,just for the record I don't agree with the title nor every thing in this article,,just found the correlations interesting ,,,,

It was also interesting that the sermon I posted by Paris reidhead,said the same as this that what what Jesus preached did not contradict the law of Moses nor did he abolish it ,,but obviously also taught that Christians are not actually under the law ,but that was used to bring conviction of being a rebel law breaker ,,,,

One thing he have to admit if we look at what Jesus taught , he see him teaching the Ten Commandments sayingif you obey them you will get eternal life to the rich young ruler ,and also many other places wher he taught similar things strait from the law ,,,the question is was he teaching a combination of the law and the kingdom,if so what are we to do about that ,,how do we treat all the red letters of Jesus do we say well that is old Covenent Jesus taught from the old Covent ,because the new Covenent wasn't in effect till after he died ,so much of what Jesus taught is not for us ,as some say that ,disregarding the words of the lord ,,or do we follow the foot steps of Christ and expound the full councel of the words of Jesus as he taught the laws ,,,,for the porpus that they were recorded and preached ...
Matthew 19:16-26New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Rich Young Ruler
16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?” And Jesus said, "You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be [a]complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

How can you expound these verses with out glossing over the the clear things that are being said ,and also just do a plain public reading of scripture ,as if it was Christ standing here today saying the same things to some one who might ask a question ,

Jesus could have said just believe in me ,confess me with you mouth and believe in you heart and you will saved ,, he who believes in me has past from death to life ".......

But Jesus didn't say that here in these verses ,he said keep the Ten Commandments .....

How can you honestly deal with that verses that seems to contradictthe saved by grace through faith ,that is not of your selves ,it is the gift of God


Not of works ,,,the works of the law ,the works of the law

Jesus is preaching the works of the law to that young ruler , not faith

Have you really thought about that !!

S
Sree


How can you honestly deal with that verses that seems to contradictthe saved by grace through faith ,that is not of your selves ,it is the gift of God

Jesus never really mentioned about the 10th commandment, 'Thou shall not covet' to the young man. He knows that it is impossible for man to keep it. Even God the father who gave this command to Moses also knows it. As I have posted in my previous replies in this thread, this commandment was given to humble man, to show him that he will keep failing.

Only very few humble themselves like how Apostle Paul in Romans 7, acknowledged that he was not able to keep the 10th Commandment. Rest all are happy that they have kept other 9 commandments hence they do not worry about 10th.

The Rich young ruler was also like that, he told Jesus that he kept all those 9 commandments which are external. He never cared about the 10th as he thought 9/10 is good enough.

But Jesus told him, 'if you want to be complete, then follow me'. So this completeness will come only when we follow Jesus his way of life. Jesus lived a New Covenant life, other wise how can he be considered our example? Why is the Bible calling him our forerunner? How is Hebrews saying that he inaugurated the new way of life, if he himself lived an old Covenant life?

Romans 6:4:-Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

This newness of life is the Life of Jesus, which is the complete New Covenant life. He lived by the power of God through the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. We are called to live like him as well.


So it is very clear from Jesus's conversation to Rich Young Ruler that he called him to follow him and live the New Covenant life. Probably after the Day of Pentecost even the young man would have got the Holy Spirit and introduced into New Covenant.

It is blasphemy to say that Jesus taught Old Covenant and lived an Old Covenant life. Like I said about this article and those who believe in it, DO NOT UNDERSTAND NEW COVENANT. They do not know what is new Covenant life at all, that is why they believe in such a lie.

S
sermonindex

Dear brother Gary we are walking on very thin ice if we suggest even slightly for a moment, that Jesus wants us to work for our salvation. The problem with trying to please God by good works is knowing when enough is enough? If I sell all my possessions and give to the poor but keep back a couple of favorite items of clothing and my smart phone...was that enough? Or my car...perhaps I need to sell it and ride my bicycle everywhere to pay for my sins? Is that enough? Maybe not...what else can I sacrifice to please Him?

When a passage like this about the rich young ruler appears to contradict the new testament teaching on justification by faith we need to slow down and study to find out why.

The setting and the conversation is not about Jesus telling us how to be saved but rather to show a certain individual that we all, like sheep, have gone astray. Jesus is highlighting that "all have sinned and fallen short of Gods glory". The rich young ruler was most likely a religious leader of some sort too and prided himself on keeping the Law. But Jesus pointed out to him that he had broken the law by loving money more than God. For the greatest commandment is to love the Lord thy God with everything within you. A law that no-one but Jesus has ever kept. Money had taken first place in this mans life like many of us and Jesus was simply pointing this out to him. That is all this passage is about and has nothing to do with being justified by our works, but rather to show that we all stand condemned and need a Savior.

S
sermonindex

The Law and Faith in Christ (Galatians 3:1-14)
Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of His death on the cross. Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? Have you experienced so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?

I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.

In the same way, "Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God.

What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, "All nations will be blessed through you.” So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.

But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under His curse, for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.” So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life.” This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, "It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”

But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When He was hung on the cross, He took upon Himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”

Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing He promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.

B
brothagary

Sree you really didn't answer the question ,,but agree with most of what your saying about the ruler and the law ,the reson it was used

But that balsphmey part not sure ,if your even using the proper terminology ...
In on scence Jesus lived the perfect old Covent life ,that no one could live ,and in the same way I would say it is blasphemy yo say that he didn't ,,that is the one of the hinges of the substitutionary atonement ,

And Jesus Cleary in the above taught laws that were given under the old Covenenent ,and told someone to keep them ,,I would say it's blasphemy to denie this but aragence Maybe.. Are you saying he didn't

And who exactly are you talking about in your last statement ,any one in particular ,,,,me or are you talking about .like Jewish roots movement

Because it just as obvious that Jesus called the ruler to follow him and live the new Covenent life ,as it is that Jesus told him to obey the comments to get eturnal life ...

B
brothagary

That's my point mark Jesus doesn't want us to work for salvation ,,but that he was using the lawfully as Paul puts it ,to convict a self righteous sinner ,and not that he actually believed that the law could be kept perfectly ,

My point is that is the reason why he preached from the law sometimes ,and other times called for faith .."

B
brothagary

And mark my point is we can use the law like that ,in preaching , this is what all the greats like tozer ,wilkinson ,weasly Finley ,Whitfield reidhead ,loyed jones ,,ect believed ,,

B
brothagary

Far out mark I know palls writings well ,some days I would six or seven hours of of Paul's letters ,those leters are my favourite

S
sermonindex

Brother Gary, who or what is palls? Brother we have to do something about your spelling if we are going to have a serious conversation:-) What is your email address, I would like to write to you and help you in any way I can. God bless.

S
sermonindex

This thing just occured to me: Jesus was under the old covenant and kept the law. He showed us how to keep the same law by the spirit. Only in the eyes of the Pharisees did he break it. In Gods eye He was sinless.
Jesus kept the real law not the tradition of the pharisees. Is this not what "fulfilled the law" means?

B
brothagary

Lol what you want to teach me to spell,I'm using an I pad with a crap spell check ,,I don't use email ,,I use sermon index ,or face book .....

And brother Iv no problem speaking in sermon index ,,,,,didn't you even want to read Egyptian hieroglyphics,at school ,well Nows your chance !!!

B
brothagary

That's how I understand it tozu,,,,,but even in the spirit we can keep the law perfectly as Jesus did ,Jesus was unique in that he kept it perfectly and need no sacrifice.as we all still do and will...

S
sermonindex

"Lol what you want to teach me to spell,I'm using an I pad with a crap spell check ,,I don't use email ,,I use sermon index ,or face book .....And brother Iv no problem speaking in sermon index ,,,,,didn't you even want to read Egyptian hieroglyphics,at school ,well Nows your chance !!! "

Brother that is a lazy attitude imho. This is a public forum and as such we interact with others. Everything we say and how we say it matters. We should strive to communicate with excellence as much as we are able to do so. I am not saying we should be perfect but we should at least try to improve. I think you really can if you wanted to. Just slow down and take the time to use a spell checker and read over what you write before you post. These tools are built into all browsers now so its not that hard. I think you have a lot of wonderful things to say but for whatever reason, you do not seem to care if what you are typing even makes any sense? I am sure you have very good excuses, and I am sure many will be jumping to your defense. But I am hoping that you will listen to me and try to improve this. It is not an impossible task, you can do this brother! I am trying to speak this to you in love my brother and I hope that you will receive it as such and not become defensive.

S
sermonindex

"Jesus was unique in that he kept it perfectly and need no sacrifice.as we all still do and will..."
Amen, Gary

M
MrBillPro

neilgin1....I do, fore taking the heart to do for that for my mother.

in Jesus love, neil

Neil, thanks for your response, and letting me know my salvation is hanging on by a thread, until I can did deep into this content of this thread, and know and understand it all. Neil I've prayed for your complete situation going on in your life, as you know I can relate because my Mom is also in a home and going through some trying times. It's just unbelievable that any so called Christian could just skip over what you have posted about your Mom, and just carry on like they never saw it. Thank you Carmine, for sending out your prayer request for Neils Mom. I hope all the folks on this thread figures this all out, so it will increase your knowledge of the word, and hopefully at some point, we will all try and know God like we so try and know his word in all these "long and turgid posts", as Neil put it.

Hopefully one day all these experts on God's word, will come back down off cloud 9 and focus on helping folks that come here, with just some basic understanding of the word, instead of trying to dissect the word, where it only becomes confusing to "most" all others here. In my opinion it's selfish to post thread after thread here, that does not even leave the door open for most of us here to post, because of the depth of these threads. It's sad because most of these in depth threads dwindle down to were they end in strife, or locked.

Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us not to go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over another. 1 Corinthians 4:6

S
Sree


But that balsphmey part not sure ,if your even using the proper terminology ...
In on scence Jesus lived the perfect old Covent life ,that no one could live ,and in the same way I would say it is blasphemy yo say that he didn't ,,that is the one of the hinges of the substitutionary atonement ,

It really amazes me how someone can consider being born of the Spirit into New Covenant life yet have very less idea of what it is. Either they themselves never experienced New Covenant life or all their understanding is theoretical, nothing practical.

New Covenant standard is way ahead of Old Covenant. That is why Jesus said the least in Kingdom of Heaven under New Covenant is greater than the greatest man possible to live under Old Covenant (John the Baptist). So anyone living the New Covenant life has already surpassed Old Covenant life. It is like a jumper who can jump 10 feet high has already surpassed one who jumped 5 feet. Or another example, the one who has done Masters in Science means he has already completed bachelors in Science and also high school science.

So when I say Jesus lived a New Covenant life, it also means that he has surpassed the standard of Old Covenant. Where is the Blasphemy here?

You are looking at the external signs of New Covenant like belief in death and resurrection. But what is important is the internal life, Jesus lived the perfect life of New Covenant even though he does not need to have external signs. If you really experienced the internal new covenant life, then you will never argue that Jesus lived an Old Covenant life.

For example many people in Indian villages do not have a birth Certificate. Does that mean they are never born? The fact that they are alive proves that they are born. The standard of life that Jesus lived proves that he lived a New Covenant life.


Sree you really didn't answer the question

I answered your question and also posted further questions which you have never cared to answer. There is a way to sometime answer a question by posting further questions. I will repeat the question again. If Jesus lived an old Covenant life then how is he our example? Then the entire Book of Hebrews is wrong when it keeps on saying Jesus as our example with numerous verses. Does it not sound a Blasphemy to you? If it does not then it is because you are caught with external signs of New Covenant that is why.


Because it just as obvious that Jesus called the ruler to follow him and live the new Covenent life ,as it is that Jesus told him to obey the comments to get eturnal life .

Do you think a person from Old Covenant, kept all the commands including the 10th commandment (which is impossible), then God will tell him that he cannot have eternal life, because he lived under Old Covenant time?

The rich young ruler lived under Old Covenant, so Jesus asked him whether he kept at least what he can keep. When he said yes, then he called him to higher standard of living which is the new covenant.

It is like admission into college after making sure a person passed schooling they admit him in college.

No where Jesus said to him that since he has kept the commandments he will have eternal life. He clearly said that he lacks something, even after Jesus acknowledged that he has kept all the external commandments.

S
sermonindex

and when I write "beloved" in front of your Bill, that comes from deep within my soul, I pray you know that.

I as well have prayed for your mother, May God comfort that dear woman, and comfort you....that was Christ-like of our dear Carmine, wasn't it?

Y'know Bill, I didn't even realize what the TRUE craven nature of what happened on this figless tree of a thread till you brought it up, you wrote:

"It's just unbelievable that any so called Christian could just skip over what you have posted about your Mom, and just carry on like they never saw it. "

Bill, expecting a little love from religionists, would be like expecting a 4 year old to do a tune up on a F150 pick up truck.

I could write a LOT more, but in the interest of peace, i'll still my keyboard, God love you brother, and May Jesus hold your Momma tight, much love, neil

S
sermonindex

"It really amazes me how someone can consider being born of the Spirit into New Covenant life yet have very less idea of what it is. Either they themselves never experienced New Covenant life or all their understanding is theoretical, nothing practical."

Now perhaps we are beginning to get to the root of the problem with many people, including myself. We can argue all day long over theology and doctrine about salvation under the New Covenant but none of it has anything AT ALL...to do with the ACTUAL New Covenant.

The New Covenant is not a doctrine, it is not a proper understanding of salvation...it is not figuring all this stuff out and coming to a conclusion in our minds that we now know or are clearer about something.

No, the New Covenant is life itself!!! It is God living inside a man. That is the end of it all. If God is in you then He will work out His life in you too. And that is the rub. Many people are merely content to understand the New Covenant with their minds but refuse and resist the Holy Spirit and will not allow God to take them on into greater and greater depths of His love in conforming us to His Son.

S
sermonindex

No, the New Covenant is life itself!!! It is God living inside a man. That is the end of it all. If God is in you then He will work out His life in you too. And that is the rub. Many people are merely content to understand the New Covenant with their minds but refuse and resist the Holy Spirit and will not allow God to take them on into greater and greater depths of His love in conforming us to His Son.

Amen to that!


D
docs

Not ALL Christians here have likely skipped over neilgin's thoughts concerning his mother. They may not have posted a reply but I'm sure more than a few have said a prayer for his mother. I have said prayers last night and today so don't be so quick good bro to lump everyone together.

Also, one does not have to be an expert as you say tio contribute to threads. Most comments are welcome whatever level they may be at. I would say go ahead and dive in.

Blessings to you.

S
sermonindex

Saints,

We are locking this thread as some of the posts really have not been in the Spirit of Christ but the flesh. Bantering, arguing or name-calling simply is foolish and does not bring glory to God but shame to the precious Name that has bought us by His Blood.

At the bottom of every new posting box before you press SUBMIT you read this:

--

All our communication matters in the Lord and we ask that you consider that all our words will be accounted for by God one day: Matthew 12:36, James 1:26, Colossians 4:6. Speak with gentleness, with a servants heart. Imagine our Lord in the same room with you watching what you say to other believers. Speak to edify and love others and choose not always to be right but rather right in your attitude of humility and humbling yourself. You can review the full SermonIndex Community Guiding Principles (opens in new window) for more thoughts on how to post on the forums. https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44556&forum=13

---

It would be good for saints to think more soberly on how we communicate with each other as brothers and sisters in the Lord.

If we are not able to change and become more loving, patient, kind, gentle, then we are not full of the Holy Spirit of God no matter how much we think we are!


Matthew 12:36 New International Version (NIV)

36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.

James 1:26 New International Version (NIV)

26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.

Colossians 4:6 New International Version (NIV)

6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.


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