In an other thread Elibeth shared about how God revealed her the truth about the kingdom of God. That for some reason made me happy.
There are so many verses in the bible about the kingdom of god.
It would be interesting to see your thoughts about this topic, I think it would encourage many.
Primarily I am not looking for theological debate, or something learned only by the mind, but rather what God revealed you from the scriptures.
This will be an enlightening study. Looking forward to sharing at the end of the week.
Tozsu,
I really appreciate your interest in this.My interest too,for quite some yrs.
And much has flowed from this revelation.
I pray He will reveal it to others.
For me,the kingdom of God,was the most important subject that
He could have ever revealed to me.
So around this,The Word flows together.
I thank God,
I am so busy in my every day obligations,but ai look forward to this
communion.
Elizabeth
I am looking forward to what the brothers and sisters on this forum have to say on the Kingdom of God.
After all, this is primarily what is in view from God's perspective and from the Word of God.
The Lord has commanded us to "seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness." This should be our first priority as believers that have been delivered from the Kingdom of darkness and translated into the Kingdom of God's dear Son."
Jesus in teaching His disciples how to pray said to pray"
"Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:10)
"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost." (Romans 14:17).
"strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. "We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God," they said." (Acts 14:22).
"nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst." (Luke 17:21).
How do we know if we are seeking the Kingdom of God first both individually and those that have been called in ministry?
As believers we have been called to be disciples of Jesus, and that means that we must deny self, take up the cross, and follow the Lord. This means that Jesus Christ has to not only be savior of our lives but He must be Lord of all. The Lord must be in control, and we must surrender all to Him. The Lordship of Jesus Christ is an absolute for all that want to seek first the Kingdom of God.
For those that are called to a ministry such as a pastor of a church, those that are seeking the Kingdom of God will seek to know the will of God, and to see things through His eyes and with His viewpoint.
The ministry is not about what is in it for us, but what does the Lord want? It is not about how big of a church that we can build with a large congregation, but how much are we advancing the Kingdom of God in our locality, and even throughout the world. God is seeing the whole picture, and sometimes we can be so short sighted that we are looking at things through a microscope instead of being seated together with Christ in heavenly places, and viewing things from His perspective, seeking His heart, and bringing about His Kingdom purposes into the earth.
Good question, Mike. How do we know if we are building the Kingdom of God or building our own kingdom? Even if we were initially called by God and not ourselves, what is our constant gauge that keeps us building His kingdom without falling in the ditch and starting to build our own? I have some thoughts, but would like to let others weigh in.
Yes the invisible, ethereal, ghost-like, nebulous, vapor like kingdom that arrived in 70 Ad with an invible spirit being called jesus.
What exactly are you saying? here? Could you please clarify your statements and place them in context?
To the rest, the Kingdom of God does not need to be built, it exists already and we are called as His ambassadors, we live by the laws that govern that kingdom here and now and we apply its principles and proclaim its message and judgements in this life. To do otherwise is to walk in darkness.
Here is the outline of the first of several lectures on the KOG
http://www.digitalministries.us/steve_gregg/text/kingdom_of_god-2007/1-kingdom_lectures_1-4.ppt
Dohzman,
You are absolutely correct! I was thinking about the church as men calling themselves into ministry or calling other men into ministry and building upon the wrong foundation.
Thank you for that correction.
1 Corinthians 3:9-15
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Is the king of this Kingdom that Tozsu and Julius are proclaiming that they call jesus a spirit entity without bones and flesh?
The resurrected Jesus Christ ate real fish and broke real bread with His disciples and not just the 11( all of whom suffered and died as martyrs for Jesus Christ and the sake of the gospel of the Resurrection from the dead). Thomas felt His hands and side where the romans thrust the spear into. His glorified body was flesh and bone but eternal. 1Ti 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Mary was told to let go at the tomb, He must have had a body that she could cling to, He was able to prepare a fire and cook fish for his disciples when He called them back to their original purpose after the resurrection from the dead on the shores of Galilee where also He ate fish with them.
So you imply that you doubt His real personhood as Fully Man and Fully God IN Heaven Glorified and at the right Hand of the Father?
Amen to your comments dohzman!. He is the risen LORD and fully man and God. The question was posed to the other 2 who continually post otherwise. That would make them of an antichrist spirit would it not if they deny the physical, literal, bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ?
I believe that error/heresy was refuted by the Apostle John in the early church and than it surfaced again in the first century and the writings of the first century fathers talk about it, now I am going to have to dig because I forget who it was that started it, Marconian heresy??????? I forget, I'll need to dust off some of my books, maybe some others on here have that information off the top of their heads? As to the other 2 you mentioned, I don't follow the threads close enough to really know how they believe in this regard.I would hope that they in their pursuit of knowledge would seek the truth that sets man free for in Him (Christ Jesus) are found all knowledge and wisdom.
I believe that particular heresy is called docetism which suggests Jesus appeared human but was not flesh.
I agree with Dohzman.
What I am not clear at all on is whether those called out actually believe this.
I have previously asked for specific quotes from other threads where this has been stated but none have ever been provided.
I am not asking those accused to defend themselves unless they feel so inclined.
Unless a miracle has occurred these individuals will now hide for a while.
If they do return we could ask them directly as to who they believe who Jesus Christ is as to his current physical form, whether he is God in the flesh right now or just a disembodied spirit as they have stated previously.
Lot's of other related questions could be asked.
Like who was Jesus Christ when he walked the earth in his physical body. Was he God and man then? When he died on the cross what happenned to his physical body if he rose from the dead in body-less spiritual form (whatever that is)?
And if they do not hold to the truth about Jesus Christ then
why give them a platform here? This is not a small matter as 1 John 4 states this is an anti-Christ spirit.
by TMK on 2016/6/8 9:04:12I believe that particular heresy is called docetism which suggests Jesus appeared human but was not flesh.
I agree with Dohzman.
What I am not clear at all on is whether those called out actually believe this.
I have previously asked for specific quotes from other threads where this has been stated but none have ever been provided.
I am not asking those accused to defend themselves unless they feel so inclined.
I am also still waiting for quotes.
It has been previously stated that if anyone desired to receive actual quotes then all they had to do was ask for them. I asked specifically on two occasions for actual quotes to be sent to my email address and received NOTHING.
Since people are being interrogated and accused publicly, the alleged quotes should be made public. I think I hear crickets.
To me Kingdom Of God is a place where God is the King and everything is ruled by him. To seek Kingdom of God means to seek to be under his kingship. We willingly submit our self under his rule. Under his laws. Under his authority. This is the first revelation I got on Kingdom of God.
When Jesus said Kingdom of God is near us and in us, it means in New Covenant God has come inside us to rule from inside us.
so who is your Jesus Christ right now Julious?
Is he flesh and bone or a spirit?
[quote[by Notdarkyet on 2016/6/8 11:45:35
so who is your Jesus Christ right now Julious?
Is he flesh and bone or a spirit?
So, your accusations have now turned to questions? What? No quotes? Have you been entertaining "vain imaginations", again? You are asking others to be accountable based on your lies. Is there any accountability for you? You really have not earned the right to be conversed with, but I am making an exception with this post.
First, I think you should apologize to Elizabeth for "pooping" in her thread. That was totally uncouth, but it seems to be your pastime.
Secondly, you should apologize to Tozsu for unjustly accusing her and besmirching her good reputation.
Thirdly, you should try to start adding productive thoughts to threads and stop seeing yourself as the "Chief Inquisitor."
Elizabeth, really sorry for NDY's behavior. It happened to me when I was trying to start a thread on "Typologies of Christ". People come and mess all over themselves in the thread and it kind of ruins it. I think you should consider starting your thread again and let's hope people can be mature.
NDY asked
"so who is your Jesus Christ right now Julious?
Is he flesh and bone or a spirit?"
no answer
My question:
Is he in the same body that he died in and rose again in, flesh and bone, hands
and feet with pierce marks on them or a new spirit being?
Just who is your jesus Julius?
Spree,
I appreciate you...l certainly agree.
Also,..( this has nothing to do with what you said )
Please,Lord,You know this is SUCH AN IMPORTANT SUBJECT of
your very heart,...Please ! ,let there not be ONE continuous spirit
be in ANY of us here.
You are the very Prince of Peace.
SO LORD,Come and help us by your great Spirit,to study and say Your Words,O' Lord.
And I thank you Lord.
...Because Jesus said for us to seek peace,and to pursue it.
Ps.34:14; "seek peace, and pursue it."
1Pet.3:11, " ; let him seek peace,and pursue it."
In His love,l
----------------------
elizabeth
Let's press on, Elizabeth...yes, in peace.
The Kingdom of God is not a popular subject. When Jesus brought the Kingdom of God, He received much resistance as it upset the entire religious world. The Kingdom of God is diametrically opposed to the kingdom of darkness represented by men and their systems.
Rev said
"My question:
Is he in the same body that he died in and rose again in, flesh and bone, hands
and feet with pierce marks on them or a new spirit being?
Just who is your jesus Julius?"
Excellent question and he will not answer because it will
expose his anti-christ heretical beliefs regarding the person and work of the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
PLEASE,.....
May I,too answer your question ?
Jesus is ALIVE, up in the heavens,........but when He died, He sent back His (ALIVE) Spirit into those that would repent,...( turn from 'their way',....[s] and receive
Him,( His Spirit)
He said," It is The Fathers good pleasure to give us this kingdom "
( my imp)
He is Spirit came to work,the kingdoms WAY IN us NOW,through His Precious Spirit.
In His love,
-----------------
elizabeth
Thank you Elisibeth but that is not what I asked him.
He has denied the literal, physical resurrection of Jesus Christ on a number of occasions and that qualifies him being
an anti-Christ according to 1 John 4 and many other scriptures. This is serious heresy and should not be
propagated in the assembly of the saints here.
And why will he not answer the questions and confess who JESUS Christ is according the the scriptures? Not with weasel words but plainly and clearly as all genuine Christians would gladly do when asked.
Quote:"what God revealed you from the scriptures"
The trouble is here, in my opinion, is that while in my case the Lord has given me many useful things out of scripture a good many things were for specific circumstances I was facing and needed help or direction with, at those times I would understand the Word of God almost tailored to the scenario I was facing. I am not sure it would apply as doctrine per se', so to approach this subject is great for testimony night but on a forum like this might be kinda unfruitful. In these revelations walking out scripture has tangible results but is not something I would do on an on going basis.
LORD !
If this subject is in your will,....some way, let us continue with the discussion
here.....In your peace !
Thank you O'Lord,for your GREAT love and care,...
And Your Word,O'Lord
--------------
elizabeth
Yes LORD! be exalted in the midst and drive out satan in whatever form they take.
No more deceit and deception be accommodated in this fellowship.
In Jesus mighty and holy name remove all things that would try to obstruct and diffuse your eternal purposes for this place.
amen
I suppose it would be good for you to start it off by example as to what you guys may have in mind when you make such a request. Are you looking for instances where we saw the Kingdom of God in action, a rhema word from the logos or???? what?
Yes!
Amen!!!
I too have the same mind regarding the kingdom of God:)
Jesus said it is like a mustard seed that when planted, over time becomes a great tree whereby shade and solace is provided for those whom seek it in the branches... So my understanding is that when the gospel (seed) takes root in the good ground of our hearts (as opposed to just our minds/rocky ground) then it begins to grow us up in Christ who is the head.
The scriptures tell us to "grow in Christ" which is to say grow in the kingdom or "seek the kingdom" and also tells us to persevere till "Christ be formed in us" which is to say till the kingdom has come to fruition in us.
In my understanding we "grow in Christ" by obedience, which is to say feeding on His word/flesh and prayer/intercession, preaching the gospel, etc... where as "Christ is formed in us" or "we are conformed into the image of Christ" by Him growing Himself in us (progressive sanctification/holiness).
One part is ours and one part is His, hence we co-labor with Christ...
Many know Him as savior...
Some know Him as Lord...
Few know Jesus as King~
In order for us to truly abide in Him (again in my understanding) we must accept Him as King and whatever the King says is law and any nonconformity is rebellion/sin...
"And in those days Israel was without a KING and everyman went about doing what appeared to be right in his OWN eyes and became a law unto HIMSELF"
According to the letters of John : What does : "Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.."
look like , what Is the attributes that are given ?
in comparison :
According to the letters of John what does : "every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh .."
look like , what Is the attributes that are given ?
If this person has supposedly made these statements on several occasions and you have said you have the quotes readily available then why not share them? Julius has given you the green light to produce them so why not prove your case?
Those who deny that Jesus came in the flesh are of the anti-Christ spirit. This is one of the ways to discern a false teacher or false teaching on the nature of Jesus.
John is writing after the resurrection and is using perfect tense in Greek, which denotes a past action with continuing results into the present and continuing on into the future. He came in the flesh, rose in the flesh, and is still in the flesh. The same body that He was born and died with, He rose with. If one claims that Christ rose as a spirit creature, and not physically, they are of the anti -Christ spirit and are denying the third point of the Gospel. And they are not saved by the gospel, because they deny it.
The present tense in Greek is applied to something in the past, and continues in the present forever. This same tense is applied to Jesus’ bodily resurrection. 2 Jn.7 also addresses this warning "For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, this is a deceiver and an antichrist”.
In this epistle John uses the present tense in Greek which focuses specifically on the future coming of the Lord. People who deny Jesus has come in the flesh and rose in spirit, not in the body, are of the spirit of antichrist. (1 Jn. 4:2 focuses on the past, continuing to the future. 2 Jn. 7 focuses specifically on the future). The fact is that Jesus rose again in the same body and is coming back in this SAME body. As Acts 1:11 he will come in the same manner he left, visibly to all with the physical eye and in the Fathers glory which he had before the world began (Jn.17:5,2; Mt 24:30.)"
David
If I ask you who Jesus is you will tell me and what you will say
will line up with the Word of God and the witness of the Holy Spirit I am sure.
When asked this person did not respond but continues to camouflage
and go in circles. He has proclaimed another spirit and another jesus on a number of occasions, Many of the brethren here know it and some have told me as much. Producing the evidence is easy, just read his many posts and you will be able to parse the information yourself.
Also the Spirit bears witness that we are children of God and he also warns of the anti-Christ spirit that permeates so much of religion. Even in this place sadly.
Elizabeth, I'm really sorry that they are continuing their inquisition on your thread. People that know me and read my posts know that they are spouting pure libel and slander. I guess they missed my recent comment in a thread about Thomas and Jesus when we were talking about the Lord's body.
John 20:27
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
One wonders what it is about the Kingdom of God that they don't want to hear? Why else did they choose your thread to attack two people? I think they are just trying to get it shutdown, so I won't engage them and this will be my last word on the subject. I don't understand why they get away with so much, especially, such blatant attacks on people.
Proud papa,
With much seeking and thought,this what I believe what this Scripture,
" every Spirit that confesses that Jesus has come in the flesh, "
" every spirit that confesses not,that Jesus has come in ( our) the flesh,"
* Every spirit that confesses NOT that Jesus has come into our flesh,....
Meaning,every spirit that is NOT of God,...
far-instant,( whatever that comes up in me,you,or anyone,)
Like,unforgiveness spirit,..a hatred spirit,......a contention spirit,....a lying ....etc....Whatever that is not Godly.
IT is an ANTI- CHRIST spirit
Meaning,it is AGAIST Christ. ( Anti Christ)
On the other hand,..Every Spirit that resonates / comes from / confesses,
That Jesus Christ has come into our flesh,....( the fruits of The Spirit,..
Love,Joy ,Peace,Long-suffering,gentleness,kindness,...etc.
His attributes,)...God' [ly]Spirit is of God.
We do not just confess with our mouths,...We confess by how we are ,
Our actions.
Is that how you see it Proud papa ?
You ask such a GREAT question
-------------------
elizabeth
Elibeth, RE: /// Is that how you see it Proud papa ?///
absolutly.
Proud papa,
With much seeking and thought,this what I believe what this Scripture,
" every Spirit that confesses that Jesus has come in the flesh, "
" every spirit that confesses not,that Jesus has come in ( our) the flesh,"* Every spirit that confesses NOT that Jesus has come into our flesh,....
Meaning,every spirit that is NOT of God,...
far-instant,( whatever that comes up in me,you,or anyone,)
Like,unforgiveness spirit,..a hatred spirit,......a contention spirit,....a lying ....etc....Whatever that is not Godly.IT is an ANTI- CHRIST spirit
Meaning,it is AGAIST Christ. ( Anti Christ)On the other hand,..Every Spirit that resonates / comes from / confesses,
That Jesus Christ has come into our flesh,....( the fruits of The Spirit,..
Love,Joy ,Peace,Long-suffering,gentleness,kindness,...etc.
His attributes,)...God' [ly]Spirit is of God.We do not just confess with our mouths,...We confess by how we are ,
Our actions.Is that how you see it Proud papa ?
You ask such a GREAT question
-------------------
elizabeth
Amen...
by proudpapa on 2016/6/8 15:06:25Elibeth, RE: /// Is that how you see it Proud papa ?///
absolutely.
...and Amen!!
2Cor 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
This is a post that Julius21 promoted and endorsed
Much more but why bother, he will twist and turn and evade for ever.
"Mr. Preston has finally gone on record! Mr. Preston claims Christ Jesus no longer possesses the body of His birth and resurrection. Mr. Preston attempts to downplay the implication of his heresy by qualifying his position as a "physical” body, but this is simply more intellectual dishonesty on his part. Webster’s 1830 definition of the term "body” is, "The frame of an animal; the material substance of an animal, in distinction from the living principle of beasts and soul of man”, "Matter, as opposed to spirit”, "any extended solid substance”. The fact is human bodies are "physical”. Inherent within the concept of a human body is the concept of "physical”. Thus when Dr. Kenneth Gentry points out Paul in, Col 2:8, 9, explains Christ Jesus has His body, Paul is referring to the fact Christ Jesus possesses the human body of His birth and resurrection. If Christ Jesus no longer has the body of His birth and resurrection, He is no longer human."
The implication of Mr. Preston’s view, whether he wants to admit it or not is that the historical Christ Jesus no longer exists. In other words, according to Mr. Preston, Christ Jesus temporally made use of a human body, the incarnation was only temporary! This, of course is essentially the same position held by the second century docetics, "Doceticism refers to the doctrine that the manhood of Christ was apparent not real, that as in some Greek myths, a divine being was dressed up as a man in order to communicate revelations, but was not really involved in the human state…” 1 According to Dr. Roger E. Olson, "…sophisticated doectics held a dualistic Christology that strongly distinguished between "Christ”, a heavenly, spiritual redeemer and "Jesus,” the human taken over by the Christ and used as his instrument for a time on earth.” 2 Indeed, this is the Christ of Mr. Preston, a Christ who no longer possesses the body of His birth and resurrection. The fact of the matter is Mr. Preston is advocating a "sophisticated” heretical view which dates back to the second century. The logical implication is that Christ is no longer the God-man. That is damnable heresy and Criswell knew it and called Preston on it.
EDIT:
by Rev__Enue on 2016/6/8 15:33:58This is a post that Julius21 promoted and endorsed
Much more but why bother, he will twist and turn and evade for ever."Mr. Preston has finally gone on record! Mr. Preston claims Christ Jesus no longer possesses the body of His birth and resurrection. Mr. Preston attempts to downplay the implication of his heresy by qualifying his position as a "physical” body, but this is simply more intellectual dishonesty on his part. Webster’s 1830 definition of the term "body” is, "The frame of an animal; the material substance of an animal, in distinction from the living principle of beasts and soul of man”, "Matter, as opposed to spirit”, "any extended solid substance”. The fact is human bodies are "physical”. Inherent within the concept of a human body is the concept of "physical”. Thus when Dr. Kenneth Gentry points out Paul in, Col 2:8, 9, explains Christ Jesus has His body, Paul is referring to the fact Christ Jesus possesses the human body of His birth and resurrection. If Christ Jesus no longer has the body of His birth and resurrection, He is no longer human."
The implication of Mr. Preston’s view, whether he wants to admit it or not is that the historical Christ Jesus no longer exists. In other words, according to Mr. Preston, Christ Jesus temporally made use of a human body, the incarnation was only temporary! This, of course is essentially the same position held by the second century docetics, "Doceticism refers to the doctrine that the manhood of Christ was apparent not real, that as in some Greek myths, a divine being was dressed up as a man in order to communicate revelations, but was not really involved in the human state…” 1 According to Dr. Roger E. Olson, "…sophisticated doectics held a dualistic Christology that strongly distinguished between "Christ”, a heavenly, spiritual redeemer and "Jesus,” the human taken over by the Christ and used as his instrument for a time on earth.” 2 Indeed, this is the Christ of Mr. Preston, a Christ who no longer possesses the body of His birth and resurrection. The fact of the matter is Mr. Preston is advocating a "sophisticated” heretical view which dates back to the second century. The logical implication is that Christ is no longer the God-man. That is damnable heresy and Criswell knew it and called Preston on it.
You should post the link so all can see the context of your machinations.
I remember that. I was posting a video by him on a completely different subject. Up to the time I found the video, I had never heard of him. I saw a video of him having a very civilized and loving conversation with Michael Brown that had nothing to do with what you wrote above. The writing above is your post not mine. You are not fooling anyone.
People quote others and post videos and links by others but don't necessarily agree with everything that person stands for and many times (as in this case) they don't even know all the things a person believes (which was my case with Preston).
If this is all you have, you have nothing yet you have based severe libel and slander on your post, not mine. You should apologize to Elibeth and Toszu.
This is eating you up and you are spending a lot of time spinning your wheels.
I agreed with one thing Preston talked about. That does not mean I agree with everything. Anybody can figure that out.
You are employing "guilt by association" something Roman Catholic Inquisitors did on a regular basis.
Julius stated:
"Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, 'The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:20,21)
It is not physical:"
Wrong and heretical. It is most certainly physical, material and eternal in it's
final form when Jesus Christ reigns on earth from Jerusalem.
Oracio wrote :
Yes, unfortunately I will have to agree that Mr. Preston holds to full Preterism (denying the Second Coming of Christ and bodily resurrection of believers), making him a a heretic who should be shunned by believers.
_________________
Julius21 responded :
Oracio,
I earlier distanced myself from Full Preterism, and that was not what this debate was about.
_______________
Oracio responded :
|
Brother Julius, this thought also came to mind. Let's say someone here were to post a teaching by let's say for example Joel Osteen and say they agree with that particular teaching in some respects. It would be hard for many of us to take seriously anything coming from Osteen. We wouldn't even want to give him the time of day. Hope you understand that's how I feel regarding anyone who holds to Full Preterism, as I see it to be that serious of an error.
_______________
Julius21 responded :
|
I do fully understand, Oracio. I agree it is definitely a serious error, too. Being corrected and even alerted to error does not offend me. I am actually thankful for it.
Julius just said that he does not hold to Docetism. He certainly is not teaching it.
That's good enough for me. If some here don't believe him there is nothing he can say that will change your mind so just let God handle it.
Quoting someone without fully vetting their every nuance of belief is not a crime. I am sure we have all done it.
/David
If I ask you who Jesus is you will tell me and what you will say
will line up with the Word of God and the witness of the Holy Spirit I am sure.
When asked this person did not respond but continues to camouflage
and go in circles. He has proclaimed another spirit and another jesus on a number of occasions, Many of the brethren here know it and some have told me as much. Producing the evidence is easy, just read his many posts and you will be able to parse the information yourself.
Also the Spirit bears witness that we are children of God and he also warns of the anti-Christ spirit that permeates so much of religion. Even in this place sadly./
One second after I read your first hints not long ago of a heretic or heretics being on the forum I knew you were out to get Julius by beginning to drop hints like you did. Then you said well I am not allowed to name names but all along it was obvious you were planning for it to get out who you were referring to. You've doe that which was your goal from the beginning. Then you said there are numerous instances of where he said these things and the specific quotes are available to anyone who wants to see them. But all you can come up with is well just go and read his posts. Julius has explained the one reference that you posted accusing him. Where are the numerous other examples you should be able to readily provide after making such strong accusations? You motives are transparent and motivated by a personal grudge and vendetta against Julius. It's shameful to go into the lady's thread and do this. Your disrespect for Greg and his ethical wishes for this forum remain enormous in my opinion. Just saying it like it is since this thread is likely to get locked anyway but you and NDY have ruined it anyway and gone off into subjects not even vaguely remoted to the original question of the person who began the thread. But you have an axe to grind so I guess you think it is okay. Things were going along pretty dang good on the forum with many subjects and comments from more than a few. I would apologize to the person who began this thread with very good intentions and had a good discussion going worthy of reading. I knew what you were up to from the very first second you mentioned heretics not long ago. There is a much better and more Christian way to do things. I apologize to everyone reading but something needs to be said. If the thread gets locked maybe it's on me but even a small whit of spiritual discernment can show something is out of kilter here.
Perhaps if someone may believe that Christ came again spiritually in 70 AD their view may be associated with the notion that they believe Christ did not rise physically but spiritually and therefore came again spiritually in 70 AD. I guess. I don't believe he came spiritually in 70 AD nor came at all then. I'm just wondering out loud. To my knowledge, limited as it may be, those who believe Christ came again spiritually in 70 AD do not necessarily believe He did not rise physically and will not return physically at the second advent. I'm just wondering if one view (he came spiritually in 70 AD) may make one automatically suspect of believing he did not rise physically. I'm not sure this is always the case.
Blessings.
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, (Hebrews 6:4-5)
One thing that has blessed me in my understanding of the kingdom is the significance of Christ's two fold advent and not just one. Especially since the powers of the age to come will be on full display and manifestsation in the day He comes again. Yet, even now, the powers of the age to come have already been inaugurated and unexpectedly brought into this age by Christ and His pouring out of the Holy Spirit from on high. The power of the kingdom is even now overlapping with htis present evul age. The kingdom is 'already" here in power but "not yet" in the power and glory we will see when Christ returns. I am waiting for that day but already have a significant down payment and am already tasting of the powers of that day. Christ "already" reigns we just "not yet" see the full manifestation of His reign. But it has begun! The age to come and the powers thereof are overlapping into this age causing a overlapping of the two ages. Both are here, one is coming and one is going. All roads in this age lead to the day of the Lord which is the day of Christ's second advent yet, going against the grain of common thought, Christ unexpectedly has loosed the powers of the age to come into this age. BEFORE the day of the Lord! O glory be!
I recently went through a study on the kingdom of God with help from the Vines entry for the word kingdom (basileia). I will post the entry here, prayerfully searching through all the Scriptures that are referenced will be helpful to this consideration of the Kingdom of God;
is primarily an abstract noun, denoting "sovereignty, royal power, dominion," e.g., Rev. 17:18, translated "(which) reigneth," lit., "hath a kingdom" (RV marg.); then, by metonymy, a concrete noun, denoting the territory or people over whom a king rules, e.g., Matt. 4:8; Mark 3:24. It is used especially of the "kingdom" of God and of Christ.
"The Kingdom of God is (a) the sphere of God's rule, Ps. 22:28; 145:13; Dan. 4:25; Luke 1:52; Rom. 13:1,2. Since, however, this earth is the scene of universal rebellion against God, e.g., Luke 4:5,6; 1 John 5:19; Rev. 11:15-18, the "kingdom" of God is (b) the sphere in which, at any given time, His rule is acknowledged. God has not relinquished His sovereignty in the face of rebellion, demoniac and human, but has declared His purpose to establish it, Dan. 2:44; 7:14; 1 Cor. 15:24,25. Meantime, seeking willing obedience, He gave His law to a nation and appointed kings to administer His "kingdom" over it, 1 Chron. 28:5. Israel, however, though declaring still a nominal allegiance shared in the common rebellion, Isa. 1:2-4, and, after they had rejected the Son of God, John 1:11 (cp. Matt. 21:33-43), were "cast away," Rom. 11:15,20,25. Henceforth God calls upon men everywhere, without distinction of race or nationality, to submit voluntarily to His rule. Thus the "kingdom" is said to be "in mystery" now, Mark 4:11, that is, it does not come within the range of the natural powers of observation, Luke 17:20, but is spiritually discerned, John 3:3 (cp. 1 Cor. 2:14). When, hereafter, God asserts His rule universally, then the "kingdom" will be in glory, that is, it will be manifest to all; cp. Matt. 25:31-34; Phil. 2:9-11; 2 Tim. 4:1,18.
"Thus, speaking generally, references to the Kingdom fall into two classes, the first, in which it is viewed as present and involving suffering for those who enter it, 2 Thess. 1:5; the second, in which it is viewed as future and is associated with reward, Matt. 25:34, and glory, Matt. 13:43. See also Acts 14:22.
"The fundamental principle of the Kingdom is declared in the words of the Lord spoken in the midst of a company of Pharisees, "the Kingdom of God is in the midst of you," Luke 17:21, marg., that is, where the King is, there is the Kingdom. Thus at the present time and so far as this earth is concerned, where the King is and where His rule is acknowledged, is, first, in the heart of the individual believer, Acts 4:19; Eph. 3:17; 1 Pet. 3:15; and then in the churches of God, 1 Cor. 12:3,5,11; 14:37; cp. Col. 1:27, where for "in" read "among."
"Now, the King and His rule being refused, those who enter the Kingdom of God are brought into conflict with all who disown its allegiance, as well as with the desire for ease, and the dislike of suffering and unpopularity, natural to all. On the other hand, subjects of the Kingdom are the objects of the care of God, Matt. 6:33, and of the rejected King, Heb. 13:5.
"Entrance into the Kingdom of God is by the new birth, Matt. 18:3; John 3:5, for nothing that a man may be by nature, or can attain to by any form of self-culture, avails in the spiritual realm. And as the new nature, received in the new birth, is made evident by obedience, it is further said that only such as do the will of God shall enter into His Kingdom, Matt. 7:21, where, however, the context shows that the reference is to the future, as in 2 Pet. 1:10,11. Cp. also 1 Cor. 6:9,10; Gal. 5:21; Eph. 5:5.
"The expression 'Kingdom of God' occurs four times in Matthew, 'Kingdom of the Heavens' usually taking its place. The latter (cp. Dan. 4:26) does not occur elsewhere in NT, but see 2 Tim. 4:18, "His heavenly Kingdom." ... This Kingdom is identical with the Kingdom of the Father (cp. Matt. 26:29 with Mark 14:25), and with the Kingdom of the Son (cp. Luke 22:30). Thus there is but one Kingdom, variously described: of the Son of Man, Matt. 13:41; of Jesus, Rev. 1:9; of Christ Jesus, 2 Tim. 4:1; "of Christ and God," Eph. 5:5; "of our Lord, and of His Christ," Rev. 11:15; "of our Lord, and of His Christ," Rev. 11:15; "of our God, and the authority of His Christ," 12:10; "of the Son of His love," Col. 1:13.
"Concerning the future, the Lord taught His disciples to pray, "Thy Kingdom come," Matt. 6:10, where the verb is in the point tense, precluding the notion of gradual progress and development, and implying a sudden catastrophe as declared in 2 Thess. 2:8.
"Concerning the present, that a man is of the Kingdom of God is not shown in the punctilious observance of ordinances, which are external and material, but in the deeper matters of the heart, which are spiritual and essential, viz., 'righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit,' Rom. 14:17." * [* From Notes on Thessalonians by Hogg and Vine, pp. 68-70.]
"With regard to the expressions "the Kingdom of God" and the "Kingdom of the Heavens," while they are often used interchangeably, it does not follow that in every case they mean exactly the same and are quite identical.
"The Apostle Paul often speaks of the Kingdom of God, not dispensationally but morally, e.g., in Rom. 14:17; 1 Cor. 4:20, but never so of the Kingdom of Heaven. 'God' is not the equivalent of 'the heavens.' He is everywhere and above all dispensations, whereas 'the heavens' are distinguished from the earth, until the Kingdom comes in judgment and power and glory (Rev. 11:15, RV) when rule in heaven and on earth will be one.
"While, then, the sphere of the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are at times identical, yet the one term cannot be used indiscriminately for the other. In the 'Kingdom of Heaven' (32 times in Matt.), heaven is in antithesis to earth, and the phrase is limited to the Kingdom in its earthly aspect for the time being, and is used only dispensationally and in connection with Israel. In the 'Kingdom of God', in its broader aspect, God is in antithesis to 'man' or 'the world,' and the term signifies the entire sphere of God's rule and action in relation to the world. It has a moral and spiritual force and is a general term for the Kingdom at any time. The Kingdom of Heaven is always the Kingdom of God, but the Kingdom of God is not limited to the Kingdom of Heaven, until in their final form, they become identical; e.g., Rev. 11:15, RV; John 3:5; Rev. 12:10.".
Sure glad you followed up your prior post with this one because I was going to tell ya not to play with fire lest you get burnt. The Holy Spirit is evidence of the resurrection and a down payment of things to come without a doubt.
Someone posted this to the Jew hating Julius
"You are obviously following an anti-Israel agenda. You even twist scripture references to suit your agenda. Everybody can quote scripture.
When Stephan Sizer was put under discipline by the Church of England who is not known for promoting Zionism, does that not teach you something?
I checked the links you posted and they are highly biased and loaded with anti-Israel propaganda. They play into the hands of those who pursue the destruction of the state of Israel and you throw in your lot with them.
You are posing a stumbling block to those who get offended by that and provoking strong reactions in them. It really sickens me. "
this is his end game.
Thank you,tozso,
For starting this post about,THE KINGDOM OF GOD,....
I am so happy to continue.
PLEASE ! .....I beg you that are disrupting,..
Please,start another post,on the subjects you wish to discuss,and if
any wishes to commune on your subject,We will join you.
Thank you,Julius,...yes,we do want very much. to continue.
And,I too,want to thank Greg,for giveing us this opportunity for such an important and dear subject,to Our Lord's heart.
Only in Him,and for Him,who has done SO MUCH,for us,....He has ran ahead of us,and took care of us,SO MANY TIMES,and we thank Him.
------------------------
elizabeth
Julius stated:
"Do you deny we are "seated with Christ in heavenly places". "New Heavens" is figurative speech to communicate a spiritual reality to us.
Why do we need physical new heavens. In eternal life, heavens aren't physical, they are spiritual. "
Nonsense
and
"We are experiencing aspects of eternal life, now on earth? Peace with God, union with Christ, freedom to not sin, grace to overcome, power over Satan and the flesh, ruling and reigning with Christ over the powers of darkness, having all the power of heaven at our disposal through prayer and fasting, and just asking Jesus, etc, etc?
You think "new heavens and new earth" are physical, I get it. "
no you do not get it
and so much more anti-Christ nonsense is available from him like this
"This is why you and others use the word literal. You want to convince us that the prophetic figurative speech the Holy Spirit is using in the OT to teach spiritual realities in the NT is literal and not figurative."
Only when it suits your agenda it is literal and when it does not it is spiritual.
For example:
The parts you should not believe is when the scriptures refer to Israel and the Jews. Never take these passages literally. Always replace those words with the words Church or religion within the context of the passage.. But never, ever think that God is speaking to the descendants of Abraham when speaking to the descendants of Abraham. It is simply an illusion and a spiritual one at that. Just like the resurrection of the Lord.
So here we have Julius tellings us that eternal life in the kingdom of God
Is not physical, not material but purely some sort of spiritual, non material kingdom
without any discernible form. What this is beyond me and more importantly
not taught by the Word of God.
Now today he tells us supposedly when he quotes John 20 making it to appear that he in agreement with what the scripture states about Jesus having his physical body, flesh and bone and not a spirit as he appears to Thomas after his resurrection.
Now how will the real tangible Jesus ,who is flesh and bone being made of physical matter having been raised from the deal rule and reign over a purely spiritual kingdom? How will the spirits see him in his invisible vapour like intangible kingdom? How will anyone see anyone else if everyone is a disembodied spirit.? And so many more unanswerable questions because this is an impossibly. Jesus is either the King of a real and material physical kingdom or you have to invent another jesus ,a spirt beingl to rule over the spiritual kingdom that Julius tells us is the real thing.
I believe he is masking his tune to give us the appearance that he believes what he does not believe, What the Bible says about the risen Lord Jesus Christ does not fit into his equation. In order to make any sense with the rest of his story we have to conclude that his jesus is a spirit jesus in order to rule over a spirit kingdom. A spiritual kingdom with a spiritual jesus.
This spirit is not the Spirit of the Lord.
That's good info I'm going to go through again. Very useful.
Saints,
The position of SermonIndex as well as godly saints from the past in the Church is that there is a 1000 year physical kingdom on earth in the end times. The early Church believers, Scriptures and Church history shows this.
This statement of faith from the underground house churches in china speak of this clearly:
7. The Last Days
! We believe Christ will return, but no one except the Father knows the date of His return.1239 On the day when Christ returns, He will come in glory and power on the clouds with the angels.1240 On that day, the angels will blow the trumpet, and those who were dead in Christ will rise first. After that, all born again Christians who are still alive will also be transformed.1241 Their bodies will all be glorified, and they will all be caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.1242
! The saints will then reign together with Christ for a thousand years,1243 during which Satan will be cast into the Abyss. When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released temporarily and will go out to deceive the nations until he is finally thrown into the lake of burning sulfur.1244 After that, Christ will sit on the great white throne to judge men from each nation, tribe and people. Everyone will rise from the dead and be judged before the throne. If anyone’s name is not found written in the Book of life, he will
be thrown into the lake of fire. The former heaven
289
and earth will be consumed by fire. Death and Hades will also be thrown into the fire.1245
! Those whose names are found written in the Book of life will enter into the new heaven and the new earth, living there with God forever.1246 We believe that while waiting for the coming of the Lord, believers should serve the Lord with great diligence, preach the Word of life,1247 and bear abundant fruits in their words, actions, faith, love and holiness. We also believe that those who do this shall receive all kinds of rewards.1248
! As for whether the rapture happens before, during or after the great tribulation, we recognize that each denomination has its own conviction, and therefore there is no absolute conclusion in regard to this. The duty of each Christian is to be alert1249 and prepare himself for the coming of the Lord.1250
from:
https://ia600202.us.archive.org/28/items/principlesv4/64_StatementofFaith.pdf
Towards personal attacks in this thread and claims of people hating jews, etc. Saints, please show grace, love and do not argue with each other by name-calling. This type of arguing is hurtful and does not bear witness of Christ's Spirit. We do not hold to an anti-jewish emphasis on SermonIndex to be clear.
We are locking this thread.
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