E-mail I recieved from Executive director of the Democratic party in Kansas. Persecution is coming f

There are some people who say they are Christians who are saying they are happy those people were murdered. I'm sorry but for me that's not Christ and it's not the result of His Gospel. I do have to ask the question of persecution for what? For the gospel or for the ugly things these people are saying about people who were murdered? Which is it? Because I know if I had a loved one who was murdered in this tragedy and some Christians mocked that, not only would I be hurt but I might hate. We don't know how many Christian families were personally touched by this tragedy. I just think when you mock other people's pain especially concerning murder and people turn around and call you on your hatred is that really "persecution” or are people just tired of the Westboro Baptist "Christian”? Is it "that” kind of Christianity people are tired of?

Yes I am really skeptical about "Christian persecution” because that may not be what it really is. There are several false gospels floating around and I just don't think you can holler persecution if you were stoning people with glee...

The Orlando shooting happened because of Islam's satanic rejection of Jesus and its sadistic embrace of jihad. The American reaction is confused, not knowing who to blame, because America has rejected Jesus and embraced jihadists. We are now satanic sadists, too.

The church in America is so oriented to think in terms of people's pain and emotional hurt that it has fully abandoned the need for prophetic address. Orlando does not need prayer. Orlando -- and America -- need prophets. Orlando does not need sympathy. Orlando -- and America -- need repentance. Orlando does not need vigils and heightened security. Orlando -- and America -- need sackcloth and ashes. We are Nineveh, Sodom and Gomorrah. The only hope for the few who may be saved is the clear, simple proclamation to repent and believe and obey Jesus.

For the remaining Christians, few as we are, the issue is whether we will go forward in our own places and say aloud, "Repent because the judgment of God is near." The whole of the picture of Orlando and the American response to it, including in large measure the government response so far and to come, illustrates our abject delusion as Christians. We are consumed with not hurting feelings of two groups of people whose existence is devoted to the hatred of the biblically revealed Christ. Where is the one who will stand and say, "You cowards! Lay down your expressions of prayer, lay down your empty words of empathy and actually deliver the only hope there is and do so quickly because there is no time to limply extend hands of charitable help. Speak boldly the gospel. Tell them to repent and believe. Quit worrying whether you will die in the process. Of course you will. He who loves his life will lose it. What good is the church if it will not now die that the gospel may be spoken?"

The Orlando shooter was gay himself and a regular at the club.

Brother Tim, when I read your reply, I thought of this verse:

Luke 13:2-5
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaens were sinners above all the Galilaens, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

When you talk about there being ears to hear- who are they supposed to be hearing?

For example, John the Baptist prophesied in a specific geographic area. He was hard to miss- he was the wild-looking guy shouting in the desert and eating bugs.

But today we have an American church spread across 50 states and some of the states are many times as large as Israel.

So my question is: what prophets are American Christians supposed to be listening to? Obviously not Bennie Hinn and Creflo Dollar. It seems that most legitimate prophetic types are only known by a select few. If I ask Christian friends I know who Leonard Ravenhill was, very few would likely know. I am certain they would have no idea who Carter Conlon is.

So again I ask who is this prophetic voice and how are they to get their message out to the church at large?

In other words, it may not be a matter of not having ears to hear, but rather there not being a prophetic message TO hear.

And who will the devil use in this nation
to persecute Christians?

Christians that speak the truth about Islam
will be persecuted.

Pastors that preach the truth about
homosexuality will be persecuted.

There will be persecution within the
Church itself, because Christians that
speak the truth are already considered
to be intolerant, and unloving.

The main ones that are fueling the hatred
of Christians in this nation are the liberal
media and the Democratic Party. They
have made a covenant with death, and
are sold out to the homosexual agenda,
and abortion.

The sad truth is that the American church is wretched, poor, miserable, blind and naked. What is a prophet to a people in such a state? Is a prophet a voice of hope, a voice of warning or a voice of judgment? Yes, yes and yes.

The prophetic gospel of Jesus is a voice of hope. It is not the milquetoast voice of hope of the church growth/seeker-friendly/engage-the-culture movements. The prophetic hope of the gospel is found in this message: repent or perish. A people whose eyes and ears are opened and their hearts awakened to their peril are the only ones who respond to it as a message of hope. To everyone else, it remains nonsense.

The prophetic gospel of Jesus is a voice of warning. The prophetic alarm of the gospel is found in this message: God commands all men everywhere to repent, and Jesus is coming soon. A people whose eyes and ears are opened and their hearts awakened to the reality of these truths are the only ones who will flee the wrath to come. To everyone else, it remains nonsense.

The prophetic judgment of Jesus is a voice of accounting. The prophetic judgment of the gospel is found in this message: Behold, I come quickly, my reward is with me, to give every man according to what they have done. A people whose eyes and ears are NOT opened and their hearts NOT awakened to the reality of His judgment will account for their rejection of the prophetic gospel.

When Judah rejected God in the Old Testament, a time arrived where the tender mercies of God yielded to the inescapable consequences He pronounced in advance. There was a lag between the pronouncement and the realization of consequence, and there was no particularized offer of hope in that time. Jeremiah 6:13-19.

What gospel is this, then? The gospel of bottled water and donated blood? The gospel of condolences and references to prayer? No. This is the gospel of salvation. There is no salvation without the righteousness of God being realized upon the earth. He has invited to it with mercy and tenderness. He will impose it without pity. He will superimpose Himself in power.

How long will we pretend we are being merciful when we speak to the lost in terms of their pains and hurts and brokenness, but not in terms of their lostness? If you encounter a lost child in the deep forest and give him a bottle of water and loaf of bread but not directions to safety and not showing him how to walk on it, you have not been merciful to that child. You've killed him. He will starve, lost still. All your mercies did was create an illusion of love, an illusion of security, an extension of time to die. The American church on its best day is such a person.

The prophetic gospel is the only gospel left. Better for us and that lost child that he be whisked from the forest to the arms of loving help and then to die right away than to live another hour in the delusion of life when death is on the doorstep. The American church peddles a delusion of life. The prophetic gospel is the only gospel left.

Wait just a minute here, where did I say to NOT preach the gospel? Please don't make that kind of assumption about my initial post. I said nothing of the kind. Now you can talk about the need for prophets all you want but it doesn't change the fact that there are people who say they are Christians (and not just the Westboro Baptist people) who are rejoicing that people were murdered. Some of you may not want to confront that kind of misrepresentation of God but that's what I'm talking about. It's not a false narrative. It's very real. I'm talking about real Christians being persecuted for the misrepresentation of God by those who say they are Christians. It's a case of will the real Jesus please stand up? So yes I do question this coming "persecution” as to whether it's for the real Gospel of Jesus Christ or the misrepresentation of Him? You can get mad but it's a real concern I have because I've seen and experienced that misrepresentation of God and it's no joke. I also don't know why there always seems to be these false dichotomies. If Christians are giving blood then they're not preaching the gospel? Do you really know that to be true? Why can't they do both? Can Christians have compassion or should we just turn to stone? Why does it have to be either/or. Is "and” ever applicable?

Jasmine, please know my post was not a response to you so much as I read several posts and the general tenor was what would the prophetic message be if there is one or if one is needed. I fully think you are thinking these things through and seeking to hear The Lord as we all are doing. I have no thought of you being less than real and serious about things. If I said something that seemed to cast any aspersions in you I accept the blame and ask you to forgive my negligence.

And yes. There is a place for the "and" of common decency in action alongside the prophetic pronouncement of the gospel. Always.

Last week I said to a brother that America is creating an environment where the only safe harbor for speech against homosexuality was in Islam. These shootings happened 5 - 6 days later and -- wow -- look. Kerry, Clinton, Obama are telling is not to characterize Islam itself with any evil. This event is the epitome of Islamic living in action. It is a pillar of Islam to have done this. But our society is rushing to protect Islam and shift the culpability for these deaths to some other place. Some blame Christianity in a weak pathetic attempt at equivocation because they KNOW Islam is responsible but they don't want to leave Jesus unscathed. As far as they are concerned Jesus is ISIS, sort of Jesis if you will. And that is where we stand on a tipping point folks. We are now followers of "Jesis" because a Muslim killed 49 homosexuals. That is how this works.

@dolfan

No problem with you dolfan and thank you for that.

To me sometimes I feel like some people make some things out to be black or white. Either you're with us or against us. Me? I'm on the Lord's side. Sometimes as Christians our hands aren't clean. Some people have been deeply wounded by Christians and not for the gospel sake. Misrepresentation of God is a serious matter. God was serious about it with Moses and he's never stopped being serious about it. I just think we need to be honest about why sometimes people reject God. I know slewfoot does what he does but sometimes "Christians” have done terrible things in the name of the Lord. I know this because as a Born Again African American woman when dealing with unsaved African Americans, I still have to address the subject of Christianity and slavery. It's no joke and it takes the Spirit of the Lord and the wisdom of God to get them beyond that. It is a common occurrence. So for me I see things through a variety of lenses and the misrepresentation of God is no small thing regardless of who you're to.

Also it's not just about the people who post on SI but there are also many other people who read these forums. So Frank I really don't know what you're supposedly defending SI against and why. At least that's the way it looked to me. If you have a question about something I said, you can always ask me but in truth I'm really not involved in whatever "that” is.

Jasmine, you said:
I just think we need to be honest about why sometimes people reject God.

Sister, people reject God because of the rebellion in their hearts, it doesn't matter what race or creed they are. I too am a born-again black woman. The same rebellion against God was in my heart and God had mercy on me and granted me repentance. People will use any and every excuse to not surrender to God, when the real issue is they don't want the rule and government of God in their own lives. We on this forum were all under "the wrath of God" until we receive Jesus as Savior and Lord in our lives.
The subject of slavery should not matter a hill of beans to a man or woman who will one day face eternity. The subject of eternity is what I always address when I speak to anyone who doesn't know the Lord. I do not know why God allowed slavery to take place but I know that God had a purpose in it, and He is righteous and just in everything He does. Perhaps He saw us (you and me) and many others in His eternal plan.

@appolus

My statement is regarding those Christians who are not and have not been preaching the gospel but rather throwing stones. When confronted they want to holler persecution or something regarding the devil. This has already been happening in certain circles. I know because I was a part of a particular denomination like that. What's different is the availability and use of the internet. People say/do things now and it goes around the world. With the internet people can read and see people who say they are Christians rejoicing over these murders. It's not an accusation. It's really happening.

How it's all going to separate out? I don't know. What I do know "today” is if the unsaved doesn't have actual contact with a real Christian then they don't know that's not who we are. All they know is that a person said they were a "Christian” and said these nasty things ”“ not the gospel. So when the subject of persecution comes up everybody isn't talking about the same thing because everybody who is saying they are Christian may not be. The thing is you don't always know who is who. IMO you weren't just speaking to the coming persecution of the saints but you were mentioning a possible catalyst. You used the word "villain” as to say we have been cast in a bad light but when saints don't stand up against the misrepresentation of God aren't we guilty?

@Renee_is_His

I understand about rebellion but that's not what I'm talking about here when I have to answer questions about slavery. I understand their questions/concerns and they're not wrong for that. It's important that they know I'm not talking about the slaveholder's god. Slavery was an evil institution many tried to justify using the bible. In calling slavery for the evil it was makes it easier to show people how Jesus came to set the captive free and how loving God really is. It matters...

Jasmine- I understand what you are saying.

One thing to consider is that it is not convenient for the radical LGBT movement to go after the true, loving and compassionate church. It is much more fitting for their cause to go after those who behave with hatred and outrageous rhetoric (like that pastor rejoicing over this recent massacre). Ignorant people who know nothing of true Christianity believe that type of rhetoric IS true Christianity.

So I agree that in a sense they will be persecuting the wrong thing(i.e. False Christianity). However as Frank stated there is no way to avoid the true church from being painted with the same brush.

It ain't fair- I agree. It would be much preferable for the true church to be persecuted for preaching the true gospel as Jesus preached it, as opposed to being lumped in with pretenders. But as we know, life is not fair.

@appolus

To me initially it seemed like you were talking about anyone who called themselves a Christian. In saying that, there just seemed like there was this "mixture” of people who say they're a Christian vs those who actually are. Now you're saying "genuine” which changes things significantly but that's okay. I do wonder though how many people know "genuine” saints from the Westboro Baptist (and their ilk) and religionist? To me that's what this has to do with "genuine” saints...

@TMK

Thank you for getting what I've been trying to say. I know there's no way to avoid persecution and the sweeping negative generalization that can be and will be made about God's people. I've known it for years but it still concerns me. I feel to have said something different may have cast me in an unlikeable shade here...I don't know but such is life.

@appolus

As I stated to sister Renee, I understand the issue of rebellion but that was not what I was addressing. I was addressing the issue of God being misrepresented and the repercussions of that in terms of how I've experienced it when dealing with some unsaved African Americans. I don't think you can minimize the effects of God being misrepresented to people. It can and does have long term effects. You and others may call it rebellion and sometimes that's true but not always. I was surprised to find out just how much antisemitism has happened through the hands of "christians”. Are all the Jews in rebellion or are some responding to that kind of antisemitism? See I don't think we can so easily go around labeling people with the term rebellion especially if our hands aren't clean. It's not always so black and white. I don't go to "church” and trust me when I say there are those who say I'm in rebellion but am I? No!

I know that sometimes something can hinder you and it can be the smallest thing. I remember when people were asking me if I wanted to be saved because I was standing there weeping. I remember shaking my head "no” and still weeping. I shook my head "no” because I can still remember looking at my chipped nail polish saying, "God don't want somebody like me. I couldn't even get my nails straight”. In God's presence, I saw myself. I wasn't raised in a Christian household so I didn't have the words like I'm a sinner. I just knew I wasn't "right”. I knew I was a mess and the chipped nail polish was symbolic of that. That had nothing to do with rebellion but rather about being in the presence of The Holy God who in the midst of all this had totally and completely saturated me in His Love.

So I don't think we always know what people are dealing with. I know nobody knew I was having that kind of conversation with myself. That's why we need to be led by the Holy Spirit and not be presumptuous. I think with some it may take sitting at the well kinda time like Jesus did with the Samaritan Woman. Also I think if we haven't wept between the porch and the alter asking God to break up the fallow ground then maybe we should.

ETA: Just for clarification, I'm not saying any excuse is ever acceptable for rejecting the Lord but I also don't believe those "christians” who were/are a stumbling block to the lost are going to get by either.

@Frank

Maybe I should have said religionist instead of "christian” because that's what I'm really saying. Maybe that would have made things a lot clearer for you. From what I've seen people/the world do lump both the religionist and saint together. They're both considered Christian. It's very common. I see it all the time. It's sad but true. That is in part exactly what I deal with when talking with the lost. Are genuine Christians blamed for things the religionist do? Sure we are. Today can we be martyred for something the religionist do? Absolutely.

I don't have a bitterness about slavery but I do feel insulted every time people say America is and has always been a Christian nation. When people start that stuff I have to get away from it. Not only do I believe it's a false narrative but I think it's incredibly dishonest. I wish people would stop insulting mine and other people's intelligence. I remember having to seek God about all of this, because this stuff had God looking like a liar and I knew He wasn't. God is faithful and He answered every single question I had which actually turned out to be part of a bigger picture concerning the Institutional church and a fuller revelation of God Himself.

So I don't believe America has ever been a Christian nation. What I believe is that there have been and are genuine Christians in America but they've always been the minority. I know some genuine Christians existed during slavery who demonstrated their faith even unto death. As it will stand forever, their testimony is a great witness to those who struggle with how this evil called slavery could be institutionalized for centuries in what some call a Christian nation. I think calling America a Christian nation is a deception all by itself and it lulls some people into a false sense of security. I think when the real Gospel is not preached then that's what people are left with ”“ a lie. Also I was thinking how I've never known a Jew who said the Holocaust doesn't matter in any context. As a matter of fact I don't think a Jew like that exist. I thank them though for their example of never allowing anyone to be disrespectful of the Holocaust in any way, shape, or form. Never forget...Amen to that...

So I hope I answered your question. Also thanks for the book suggestion but I'm good.