Could a law be passed in our current society to exterminate Christians?

Todd posed this question on the Ken Miller thread. I wanted to open up this thread to discuss his question.

Todd's question was please demonstrate how in our current society a law could be passed to exterminate Christians? Before I chime in my two cents worth here. I would like to hear from the forum.

Before this question is dismissed as right wing paranoia. Paul Washer in his message about upcoming persecution on the American church makes a statement that even our family may cast a vote to put us to death because we follow Christ.

Those of the flesh always persecuted those who were of the spirit. Starting with Cain killing Abel. There is nothing new about this persecution. It can play out any way but we are not supposed to focus on that. By fantasizing on future scenarios we are inviting fear in our life.

Philippians 4:6-7English Standard Version (ESV)

6 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

We can make ourselves ready for persecution by praying and meditating on the word of God. Corrie Ten Boom said we receive the ticket (grace) just before we board the train (persecution).

My family is the family of God.

Hi Susanna,

Jesus Himself prepared His disciples for His upcoming death, not to instill fear in them, but to prepare them. Of course Peter was not happy about that talk and the Lord rebuked him. The book of Revelations speaks about what the enemy will do and that we would be handed over to the forces of anti-christ, not to scare people but to prepare people. If the thought of being persecuted or killed for the sake of Jesus makes one anxious, that is not the fault of those who speak of it, it is an internal spiritual matter for the one who is anxious..............bro Frank

Prophecy is not equal to human brainstorming. Nobody said there will be no persecution. We already gave our life to Jesus we have nothing to ourselves.

Appolus said:
Revelations speaks about what the enemy will do and that we would be handed over to the forces of anti-christ, not to scare people but to prepare people. If the thought of being persecuted or killed for the sake of Jesus makes one anxious, that is not the fault of those who speak of it, it is an internal spiritual matter for the one who is anxious.............."

I strongly disagree.
In every account of speaking those events Jesus encouraged those who overcome, told them to remain in Him (as most important) and spoke about the rewards. His words were by the Holy Spirit. (In my understanding He was speaking about the persecution under Nero)
It is possible to speak about persecution in a threatening way, omitting all encouragements and highlighting only the worst aspects. In that case it would be the speaker's fault if the listeners worry (however those who have the ears to hear will not worry)

Brethren no one is fantasizing about any future scenario. The death camps of North Korea are a very real reality to those brothers and sisters who live there. The shipping containers of Eritrea are a very real reality to those brothers and sisters who live there. Persecution and martyrdom are a very real reality to those brothers and sisters who live in restricted Nations.

We in America do not have such a reality. Though that may very well change. Or I should say it will very well change. To look at the reality of the times that we're living or the darkness that's coming over America is not a future fictional scenario. But a very real reality that is coming upon us.

Of course the question is not to fear if they are truly in Christ. But in America how many are really walking out the reality of Jesus Christ. How many are really living the Crucified Life as unto him.

Even to start such threats as this and this forum. The detractors will come out and say we should not be talking about these things because this will breed fear.

Brothers and sisters in a place such as Iraq. A loving husband will kiss his wife and say my beloved I pray that I see you by the end of the day. But if not know that we will be in heaven. This is not idle or morbid speculation. But this is reality as that pastor may very well lose his life that day. This is the reality for the persecuted Church. This is a reality that is yet to come upon America. But this is a reality that we need to face.

I believe Paul Washer still carries credibility in this forum. Go back and listen to his message said he gave a few years ago when he adressed up coming persecution in America. And then ask yourself was he breeding fear. If anything he was trying to warn the American Church of what lays ahead. His message I believe is given in 2011. Look where we are at today.

Just my thiughts.

Blaine,

What I miss from your post is encouragement.
When I listen to David Wilkerson and others speaking about coming events, they always speak God's encouragement to us.
We can talk about coming persecution, but our focus should be on Jesus.

Sister, if your only disagreement with the coming persecution is that those who speak of it speak of it in a threatening way ( not even sure what that means) and do not encourage the saints, then I would agree with you. If however those who speak of it and have been called by the Lord to speak of it and encourage the saints, then I am glad that we agree on that. Exhortation of the saints is one of the most important gifts of the Spirit...........bro Frank

There are the admonishments to think on good and lovely things and not to entertain vain imaginations. We have to strike a balance and let our moderation be known to men but some today do seem to go on and on about persecution. If you have been persecuted you really don't talk about it much because you know it comes with the territory.

I have known young believers that kind of romanticize about it. If they want persecution what are they waiting for? Live godly, preach the gospel.

With all that said, my eyes are open and I see what is happening all around me and the best way to prepare people for what you might see coming is to strengthen them in their life with Christ... Unless you have some specifics.

Sister before there can be encouragement there must be warning. We as American Christians are living in a bubble. The idea of persecution and a persecuted church is far from our paradign. We think that we somehow enjoy God's special protection from sparing us from the onslaught of what others in the world are experiencing.

My sister the persecuted church is very real. Those of us in persecution ministries are lone voices crying out in the wilderness to awaken the American church to the realities of persecution. Both in the 10-40 window and persecution to come up on this nation.

Dear sister this is not fear mongering. But this is reality. I will be posting a transcript by Paul Washer. Believe me his words are far more sobering than what I'm posting. And after listening to that message one may very well ask where is the encouragement. But encouragement of course has to be found in Christ. But before encouragement there must be warning.

Brother as I told Tozso there must be warning. The American church is in a bubble and does not believe that persecution what comes up on her.

I think a lot of people who do not want to talk about coming persecution are secretly afraid and therefore would rather not hear about it or bury their heads in the sand. But as Susanna said about Corrie Ten Boom, the ticket was paid the day of the train ride. Yet, in order to ever have to take that ride that requires that ticket requires being able to see fully and being unafraid or to put it better, overcoming fear. This is what the Ten Boom family did when deciding to hide families, they knew there could be an actual train ride ahead, one that would lead to the camps, but they had counted the cost..............bro Frank

Brother Paul Washer spoke at the SI Fear of God conference in Atlanta in 2011. There was a Q&A after one of the sessions. Brother Paul was asked a question about upcoming persecution in America. Below is a transcript of the answer he gave. The video of his answer can be found in the SI archives. The video is much more powerful than the text message.

Please note these re his words not mine. I have tried to transcribe them from his message word for word. There may be some words missed here and there. But I believe I've captured the essence of his message. But again go back and listen to the video. Here is his answer regarding upcoming persecution in America.

Paul Washer...

The church in America is going to suffer so terribly. And you laugh now. But they will come after us. They will come after our children. They will close the net around us while we are playing soccer mom and soccer dad. While we are arguing over so many little things. Mesmerized by so many trinkets. The net even now is closing around you, your children, and your grandchildren. And this does not cause you to fear.

You will be isolated from society and has already happened. Anyone who tries to run for office, who actually believes the Bible, will be considered a lunatic. Until finally we are silenced.

We will be called things that we are not and persecuted, not for being followers of Christ but for being radical fundamentalist who do not know the true way of Christ which of course is love and tolerance. We will go down as the greatest bigots and haters of mankind in history.

They have already come after your children. And for most of you they got them. They got them through public school and indoctrination and university and indoctrination. And you wonder why your children come out not serving the Lord. It's because you fed them right into the devil's mouth.

So little by little the net is closing around. And then it's not little by little. Look how fast things are going downhill. In just a matter of weeks. Just in a matter of weeks.

But at the same time know this. Persecution is always meant for evil. But God always means it for good. And is it not better to suffer in this life to have an extra weight of glory in heaven.

You must settle this in your mind. This is the one thing I want to say over and over. Do not believe. Down through history you have a wrong idea of martyrdom and persecution. You think that these men were persecuted and martyred for their sincere faith in Jesus Christ. That was the real reason. But no one heard that publicly. They were martyred and they were persecuted as enemies of the state. As child molesters. As bigots. As narrow-minded, stupid people who had fallen for a ruse and can contribute nothing to society.

Your suffering will not be Noble. So your mind must be filled with the word of God. When all people persecute you and turn on you. When the Spirit of God and common grace pulls back. And you see your children and your grandchildren tossing in the lot that you should die.

This is no game. You want revival and awakening. But know this. For the most part great awakenings have only come preceding great national catastrophes of the persecution of the church.

I believe God is bringing a great awakening. But I believe He is raising up young men who are strong and trust in the Providence of God to be able to wade through the hell that is going to break loose on us. And it will be on us before we recogwize it. Unless, unless in God's Providence he is not done. He is not done.

And no this is not silly talk. Apart from a Great Awakening things are going to come up on you.

Be ready to lose your homes, your cars, everything.

Brothers and sisters these are not my words. But words from a respected man of God that this forum holds in high esteem.

You may blow me off. But for the sake of what will soon come upon us. Heed the words of this man of God.

"But at the same time know this. Persecution is always meant for evil. But God always means it for good. And is it not better to suffer in this life to have an extra weight of glory in heaven."

Great encouragement from Paul Washer. I heard this message back then, and liked it.

Blaine said:
"The idea of persecution and a persecuted church is far from our paradign."

I don't think so. I never expected the "world" not to persecute me. Everyone that tries to say the truth, experiences persecution. It is ongoing. I think it is the rules of democracy and the righteous laws of this great country that keeps persecution from coming to the state level. But the church is persecuted. Our faith is ridiculed daily by family members, the television, and even other "christians". Everyone who goes to school these days can expect persecution. It is not far from us at all.

by bearmaster on 2016/6/16 19:49:54

Brother as I told Tozso there must be warning. The American church is in a bubble and does not believe that persecution what comes up on her.

Well, brother don't let me stop you doing what you think the Lord is leading you to do. I certainly was not referring to you. Rapturists are hard to convince, but you never know who might listen since things are getting worse for Christians all the time in the U.S. I certainly see the not so subtle persecution of Christians ramping up slowly but surely by our government. But, as one other person said and I forget who it was, the greatest persecution will come from so-called Christians. I have had persecution by non-believers and it is nothing compared to the vitriole I have received from those who claim to love the Lord.

Carry on Bear, carry on. No man should stop another in what he believes God is leading him to do. Jesus told Peter, don't worry about John, you follow me. I'm sure you have already woken up many. I too, have many conversations with people and warn them as I am lead, to wake up and get right with the Lord. It's the best way to prepare.

Hi Todd, I published this scenario in 2012 and then added an opening paragraph to it. You asked for a scenario so here is one :) .......bro Frank

I wrote the article below last year but wanted to bring it up again in light of the ISIS threat to blow up Big Ben the Eiffel Tower and the White house with dirty bombs. The main point I would like the readers to take away from the article is that most of the building blocks for a great worldwide persecution against genuine saints is already in place. We are one catalyst away, I believe, from the persecution beginning in earnest. As always we must ready ourselves for what is to come by drawing close to God and holding all things of this world loosely…….bro Frank

This subject can be very difficult to approach today because there have been so many crazy people claiming when the end of the world would happen. The below scenario reckons on the saints going through the great tribulation. Therefore there is no particular day or hour that is looked for, rather a season, birth pangs if you like. We are told by Jesus that we should be able to discern the signs of the times, not the day nor the hour of His return. In any event, most peoples of the world and the church have a difficult time imagining a time where Christians would be hunted down and killed for the mere fact of being Christian. They may be able to imagine this in a Muslim world setting, but not in the West. I do not claim that the scenario below is prophetic, I merely wish to show you a logical procession of events that could lead to a world-wide persecution of the true saints.

I think we may all agree that Jesus is coming relatively soon. Where we may disagree is on the subject of rapture. Lets assume there is no rapture and Jesus is coming soon, then the saints will go through the great tribulation. The Scriptures tells us that it will be worse than anything that has ever happened before in history, in fact the Lord must shorten those days for the elects sake or we would all be dead.

Just 70 years ago, in the heart of educated and cultured Europe, in a country that pronounced itself to be Christian, an evil man arose and in six short years, killed six million Jews for the mere fact of being Jewish. He shoved them into gas chambers and then burned them in furnaces, men, woman and children, sparing none. Now this is not some Biblical genocide from the ancient world, this is something that happened just 70 years ago. Now what kind of events would need to unfold for the world to turn on Christians and for their to be a coming together of the world religions into one religion?

Lets say tomorrow there is an attack by Muslim extremists on multiple cities. New York, Washington, London, Paris Rome and Moscow are hit simultaneously with nuclear suitcase bombs. Rather than the three thousand dead of 9/11, there is one hundred thousand dead in each city. The world is repulsed and is brought together because of this great tragedy. Fundamentalists of all stripes are universally condemned and outlawed. To state publicly that there is only one true religion, only one way to heaven, becomes illegal. Such people are denounced as those who have caused all the troubles in the world. They are seen as a cancer on society which society must rid itself of.

So society gives them a chance to renounce such believes. At the same time, the major religions of the world have a summit. Islam, Christianity and the Jewish faith come together for a summit in Rome. Pope Francis leads the summit because he is universally respected. When the meeting is over they announce that they can all trace their roots back to Abraham. That they all worship the same God just in different ways. They announce that there are multiple roads to heaven and that to say otherwise is merely hate speech. They agree to drop Jesus and Mohammed from their literature and only speak in terms of God and His prophets, agreeing to stand upon what they agree on and bringing a historic unity that will usher in a new day, a new order for the world where there is equality for all.

The vast majority of the world hail this and rejoice in it. A small minority resist it and in the shadow of the multiple hundreds and thousands of deaths, the world hates them with a perfect hatred. They hate them more than the Germans hated the Jews. The minority cannot find work and are ultimately arrested for continuing to ” share the Gospel.” While they are a minority, they are still in the millions and camps are set up to imprison them because the prison system cannot contain them. An ever-growing hatred by the general public and resentment that they have to be fed and kept eventually leads to the decision to make it a capital offense punishable by death to be a fundamental Christian.

Brother if I just might add a sentence or two to your scenario. The decision is made to put the Christians into camps and they have to be fed. That would mean money going out of the pocket of the government. So imagine the next step would be to go on and execute those Christian who are in the camps to save on the cost of feeding them. Then the guillotines would come online.

Don't mean td be morbid bro. Just trying to finish out the scenario to its logical conclusion.

Simply my thoughts.

by TMK on 2016/6/16 21:58:30

Just to be clear, I am not saying that it is impossible that Christians in America might be put to death for their faith.

The original statement was that a law would be passed in the US commanding that Christians be killed.

What I am looking for is a scenario- a realistic scenario.

To me it would seem that the entire system of government would have to change. If this wholesale state sponsored killing of Christians is to happen in our lifetime then something will have to happen very quickly.

I personally do not see this happening but who knows. I do think the church may have to go underground- not to avoid a death penalty but perhaps to protect pastors from being imprisoned for hate speech. I just don't see the death penalty for preaching, not in the immediate or even semi-immediate future.

But I would like to hear a scenario how this could happen that is realistic.

TMK, the forces of evil work much more subtly than most people realize. And the Catholic Church is no exception.

Persecution is happening in many subtle ways and the Church by and large is totally blind to it.

There are many ways to cause attrition among Christians. Cutting people's medical care, making Vets wait more than 30 days for help (some die waiting in line), Medical bureacracy not getting people their medicine when they need it. Chemical contaminants in food, medicine, from planes in the sky, etc. Christians can be killed off by many, many means and these are just a few. In the War of Northern Aggression against the South, over 600,000 men were killed. The Jesuits had a very influential hand in that war and many Christians died which created a number of vacuums in the U.S. at different governmental levels. Early Christian statesmen used to warn other politicians to not let Rome get a foothold in the U.S. They even wanted to ban Roman Catholics from the U.S. Too bad, that did not happen. The RCC got a foothold in the U.S. after the War of Northern Aggression (aka Civil War. Winners get to name the war but it was very uncivil).

Many warnings were sounded way back then about the Vatican's agenda. (I have some old books of early America and various warnings about the Vatican). The RCC doesn't mind many, many Americans being killed off and they don't mind their own flock being mixed in and dying. They are importing millions more from Mexico and other South American countries as you know. Ever heard the saying, "Kill them all, let God sort them out". I will explain it, below. Also, in the Vietnam War, over 50,000 Americans were killed and many maimed and it split the U.S. socially and created more vacuums politically and socially. The Vatican had a big hand in the start of that war, too. Notice, how America has been in some kind of social, political or military turmoil since the end of the WWII? It is by design.
http://www.reformation.org/vietnam.html

The RCC works in the shadows, TMK and cause much grief and death all over the globe. Over 300 illegal sanctuary cities in the U.S. and the RCC is making money from the Federal Government harboring many illegal immigrants many of whom are criminals and sooner or later will be marshalled to kill many Americans. The average Catholic does not know how insidiously evil, Rome is but is blindly willing to obey them. But the Book of Revelation tells us just how evil the Religionists are. The "end justifies the means" is another one of their favorite sayings.

Back to the phrase: Kill 'em all and let God sort them out!

In 1209 AD during the Massacre of Beziers (massacre of Albigensians) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

n 1209, Pope Innocent III decided it was time to crack down on followers of a religious sect that had become popular in Southern France. Originally called Albigensians, they came to be more widely known as the Cathars. Cathars were Christians. But they rejected the authority of the Pope and other key aspects of Catholicism, so they were deemed heretics by the Catholic Church.
This apparently didn’t matter much to most people living in the French town of Beziers.

Catholics and Cathars had lived there together for many years in relative harmony. On July 22, 1209, they were celebrating the annual Feast of Mary Magdalene together, a religious holiday observed by various Christian religions. Suddenly, the festivities were cut short when an army of "Crusaders” sent by Pope Innocent III showed up outside the walls of the town. The military leader of the army was Simon de Montfort, a French nobleman highly motivated by the Pope’s promise that he could keep the land of any heretics he killed. The Crusaders were accompanied by an official representative of the Pope, a French Cistercian monk named Arnaud Amalric.
De Montfort demanded that the leaders of Beziers turn over the town’s Cathar heretics to him. They refused. The Crusaders attacked.

According to accounts written decades later, as the attack began, a soldier asked Amalric how they would be able to tell which Beziers towns people were Catholics and which were Cathars.
Amalric supposedly answered (in French):

"Kill them all. God will recognize his own.”

Some sources give the alleged quote as "Kill them all, for the Lord knows his own” or as "Kill them all. The Lord knows his own.”

It eventually came to be most commonly paraphrased as:
"Kill them all and let God sort them out.”

The Beziers Massacre was just one of the first of many atrocities that occurred during the Albigensian Crusades. Over the next four decades, roughly a million more people were killed during those bloody religious conflicts.

Amalric’s infamous quotation was updated during the Vietnam War, when the saying "Kill ‘em all, let God sort ‘em out” became popular among American Special Forces troops. And it's revived whenever massive killings are expected.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-meaning-of-Kill-them-all-and-let-God-sort-them-out?share=1

HI Todd, only yesterday President Obama did just that in his speech to the victims of Orlando. In my other post I sent out what the head of the Democratic party sent me. The message is that all haters fuel the flames of murder. And, if you believe that homosexuality is wrong and that gay marriage is wrong then you are a hater and you are part of the problem. Go to youtube Todd and find President Obama's remarks from yesterday and come back on and tell me you were not chilled by how he connects Christians with ISIS..............Bro Frank

by appolus on 2016/6/17 8:58:18

HI Todd, only yesterday President Obama did just that in his speech to the victims of Orlando. In my other post I sent out what the head of the Democratic party sent me. The message is that all haters fuel the flames of murder. And, if you believe that homosexuality is wrong and that gay marriage is wrong then you are a hater and you are part of the problem. Go to youtube Todd and find President Obama's remarks from yesterday and come back on and tell me you were not chilled by how he connects Christians with ISIS..............Bro Frank

You are right, Frank. President O, is hammering on the "hate" narrative regarding the LGBT community and the elephant in the room is that Christianity and it's Bible don't agree with him. Have we now become the "haters"?

Even the ACLU is getting into the arena. Their lawyers are blaming the Christian right for the attack in Florida.

I live on the fringes of tornado alley. This time of year we become very concerned because the frequency of tornadoes increases in the springtime. In our county we have a system of tornado sirens. When a tornado warning is sent out and a tornado or conditions for a tornado are detected. The sirens are sounded. The advice is go to the lower bowells of your home Either a basement or a safe room or a tornado cellar and take shelter.

Because we depend on the tornado sirens for warning. As well as advanced text messaging and alerts sent out by the Weather Service. No one would think to say that the tornado sirens or the warnings that are put out are creating fear. No one would think to say there's no encouragement in the warnings. But the warnings are to seek shelter from danger.

I offer this analogy of the tornado warnings as those who warn of upcoming persecution. Those who speak of upcoming persecution that is coming on the shores of America are doing so to encourage Christiane to go to shelter. I do not mean the shelter of a bunker. But I mean go to the bowels of the Father's Heart. This is the encouragement. The storm of persecution is coming. Our safe room is the father heart of God. Our safe room is to be in the hands of the Holy Spirit.

Those who work in persecuted nations have had to settle in their hearts and ninds that the safest place to be is in the will and the heart of God. Those who live in the reality of persecution walk this out on a daily basis. They realize they are immortal in God's care until they are taken into His presence.

When we hear the warning of the storm of persecution coming up on America. Let us not fear but go into the bowels of the safe room of God's love and care.

Simply my thoughts.

Homeland Security in commenting on the Orlando episode, changed the subject and said they were worried about other domestic terrorists. Strange comment when they should be addressing radical Islamic sleeper cells, but they don't want to talk about that.

Domestic terrorists:
Homeschoolers
Christians
Climate change "deniers"
Anti-vaccine (some vaccines)
Constitutionalists
Anti codex alimentarius
Law abiding conceal carry holders
Etc, etc.

Hi Julias,

Here is a portion of the transcript of his remarks yesterday. No one questioned him at all when he lumped in Christians with ISIS. People have been silenced on this issue, bullied into speaking in hushed tones of at all on the homosexual issues, hemmed in by a tiny minority of actual gay haters and the radical progressives who could write such books as " To many Christians, to few Lions."..........

President Obama- So whatever the motivations of the killer, whatever influences led him down the path of violence and terror, whatever propaganda he was consuming from ISIL and al Qaeda, this was an act of terrorism but it was also an act of hate. This was an attack on the LGBT community. Americans were targeted because we’re a country that has learned to welcome everyone, no matter who you are or who you love. And hatred towards people because of sexual orientation, regardless of where it comes from, is a betrayal of what’s best in us.

Joe and I were talking on the way over here -- you can't make up the world into "us” and "them,” and denigrate and express hatred towards groups because of the color of their skin, or their faith, or their sexual orientation, and not feed something very dangerous in this world.

So if there was ever a moment for all of us to reflect and reaffirm our most basic beliefs that everybody counts and everybody has dignity, now is the time. It's a good time for all of us to reflect on how we treat each other, and to insist on respect and equality for every human being.

We have to end discrimination and violence against our brothers and sisters who are in the LGBT community -- here at home and around the world, especially in countries where they are routinely persecuted. We have to challenge the oppression of women, wherever it occurs -- here or overseas. There’s only "us” -- Americans.

Thanks for posting that, Frank.

I hear what Obama it's saying, loud and clear, and it's not good. Obama is not dealing with radical Islam, he is chastising everyone for how they treat the LGBT community. He talks about them being persecuted but I can't remember the last time or even the first time he talked about Christians being persecuted.

Yep, & several passages of scripture come to mind:

"Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people"

"Woe to those who call good evil and evil good"

"In those days, everyone did what was right in their own eyes"

"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the coming of the son of man"

Brother actually the book, So Many Christians, So Few Lions, is sympathetic toward the Christians. The two sociologists who wrote the book are seeking to document and raising awareness of the rise of Christian phobia here in America.

Just wanted to add a gentle correction on that bro. In light of the discussion I hope to get the book this weekend and read it. If so. Will post them what I get out of the book.

Thanks Blaine, It should have referred to those who the writers were speaking off. I will try and get a copy myself.......bro Frank

"I want them all to die in a fire."

"Churches and houses of religion should be designated as nuclear tests zones."

"kill them all let their god sort them out."

"Would like to give them all a frontal lobotomy."

"Line them up and shoot them."

"The only good Christian is a dead Christian."

Brothers and sisters the above quotations are not from Islamic jihadist. They did not come from ISIS. The above quotations are from those who call themselves Cultural Progressive Advocates. These are basically White educated males. They hold Masters and PhD degrees. They make over a $100,000 a year. And they are in positions of influence that shape the thinking our culture mainly in Academia. And they are Americans. And the radically hate Christians. The above quotes document that.

These quotes are from the book that Dr. George Yancy co-authored, So many Chriatians, So Few Lions.

In listening to a Youtube by Dr. Yancey I hesrd he professes faith in Jesus Christ.

Saint this just goes to show that there is hostility in America toward Christians. The above quotations indicate that there are those who would like to see Christians eradicated. So as one poster said in this thread. We are one step away from slaughter by law.

I will admit that the previous post is pretty disheartening. There are those in America who would like to see us die. But then when we made a commitment to Jesus Christ we should realize that we were marked for execution. As has been pointed out our struggle is not against flesh and blood but it is against those that are in evil places. It is against Satan himself.

If anything. Let us be warned. And let us flee into the bowels of the love of Christ. Let us be covered by Him. Let us go deeper in Jesus.

Hope this is on a more encouraging note.

Brother just goes to show there's nothing new under the sun. Christians will always be hated and despised by the world.

Breaux B.

Fraid I don't follow your bro. Can you clarify?

Breaux B.

... I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. You Christians are so unlike your Christ... Gandhi

Thought I would add that one to your collection of course bro.

But there's no denying that the church has grievously failed to be the witness that Jesus wants her to be. But brother we cannot judge the effectiveness of the witness of the church by the quotes of men that do not know Christ.

For example these men, the ones you quoted, and the ones I quoted, are not aware of the persecuted church. There we see the effectiveness of the Church of Jesus Christ. There we see the witness of the bride of Christ.

I posted on the devotional thread, Of The Persecuted, how Believers in North Korea and other parts of the world will risk their lives to own a copy of the precious word of God. The unregenerate man will not understand this. Indeed it will invite ridicule and scorn. But here is the true witness of the bride of Christ.

The atheist and agnostic will not understand those who are willing to die for the Lord Jesus Christ. To them it will be foolish and they will mock it. But brother if you want to see the authentic church then look to the believers of North Korea or Eritrea. For here authetic Christianity is being lived out.

Thiugh I doubt very seriously Gandhi would have acknowledged that. But then few acknowledge the reality of the persecuted church. Even the Christians in the West.

Simply my thoughts bro. Rambling on a Friday night.

Breaux Blaine

TMK,

I read the quotes. You can thank the devil and his counterfeit church for the fallout upon true believers. In the end, even the kings of the earth turn against the false church which has always persecuted the true church. Religious men that seek to make a name for themselves, love position and riches.

Christianity has brought much light and love and good to the world and through the Holy Spirit restrains and binds the evil one, but those who hate God, always have the convenience of blaming Christians for the atrocities of religion. They cannot discern the difference between the true and the false.

by yuehan on 2016/6/18 0:07:17

re: TMK's quotes

Here's an atheist concluding the opposite, writing, "As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God":

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/175187/africa-needs-god-kathryn-jean-lopez

Sounds like there are different levels/degrees of atheists.

I thought the basic definition of atheism meant that they did not believe God existed. Maybe that person is having an identity crisis and doesn't yet know what to call themselves.

Of course, calling oneself an atheist is kind of "in vogue", today with the world, isn't it?

Philip I think the distinction needs to be made between God's wrath and persecution. Basically God's wrath is poured out on unbelievers. Particularly upin those who have rejected Jesus. But God allows persecution to come up on the believer to refine and purify their faith in Him. The persecution and ultimate martyrdom of the believer should not be seen as God's wrath.

Hope this makes sense.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Interesting is it not that wrath is juxtapositioned with salvation. If we have salvation then we are not under the wrath of God. Saints have been martyred for 2000 years yet clearly this is not the wrath of God.

Jesus said that "the wrath of God abides on” one that does not believe in the Son (John 3:36). Also "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men” (Romans 1:20). Again we read that "the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience” (Ephesians 5:6).

Clearly there is a wrath of God that comes upon the sons of disobedience. Imagine two men being burned at the stake, one is gloriously saved, the other is not. Their experiences while both being burned, are going to be very different. For in one burns the love of God and eternal life and that one is only a moment away from glory. IN the other there is no life, only death and that one is a moment away from eternal hell. On one there abides wrath and on the other there abides glory..............bro Frank

Brethren,

I have changed the thread title from "Todd's Question"

to: "Could a law be passed in our current society to exterminate Christians?"

So it can be referenced better.

I don't think they would actually pass a law to do it. If government became that tyrannical they would just round them up and would not ask anyone's permission or pass a law to give themselves permission.

I grew up in a "communist" country", where there was a soft persecution against truth where use of force was mixed with lies. We had "shop window" churches that had a pact with the state and were infiltrated with agents of the state. People could go to these and hear about half lies and politics, or in a better case coded messages of truth.
In America people were in the privilege to hear "much more truth" from official places, and when these are infiltrated by the agents of Satan they can not see it.
In my opinion if Satan can not exterminate christians with force, he will try to do it with lies.
In my opinion it`s not persecution from the state that we should expect (after all this is a coutry with great democratic traditions) but lies, diluting the gospel and being turned against authority.
If people are weakened by deception they can be easily persecuted and they might be too weak to stand.
I think our fight should be for truth, and against deception, to create brave and wise christians who can stand against persecution or wisely flee from it. Sound doctrine is the most imortant in this time of deception and possible future persecution.

Edited to add: In hungary the churches did hold the truth but it was not easily visible.

by TMK on 2016/6/20 13:07:49

I tend to agree J. I don't think it would be the govt per se but rather anarchists who have taken over after govt has crumbled- for whatever reason.

Actually, the government will be ones "crumbling" the government. Executive orders have been rampant, going against the rule of law and the constitution for many years, now.

The government, crumbling the government, is in full effect, now.

Government's dissolve previous government's all the time. Thailand has done it many times. Venezuela did it, too. Ours is happening deliberately and slowly.

There is already wide spread persecution of Christians in America, I don't know why more people are not talking about it.

Dissolving government is linked to dissolving basic freedoms is linked to dissolving the U.S. Constitution.

Read, "It's Dangerous to Believe"

Mary Eberstadt, "one of the most acute and creative social observers of our time,” (Francis Fukuyama) shines a much-needed spotlight on a disturbing trend in American society: discrimination against traditional religious belief and believers, who are being aggressively pushed out of public life by the concerted efforts of militant secularists.

In It’s Dangerous to Believe, Mary Eberstadt documents how people of faith””especially Christians who adhere to traditional religious beliefs””face widespread discrimination in today’s increasingly secular society. Eberstadt details how recent laws, court decisions, and intimidation on campuses and elsewhere threaten believers who fear losing their jobs, their communities, and their basic freedoms solely because of their convictions. They fear that their religious universities and colleges will capitulate to aggressive secularist demands. They fear that they and their families will be ostracized or will have to lose their religion because of mounting social and financial penalties for believing. They fear they won’t be able to maintain charitable operations that help the sick and feed the hungry.