TMK
Someone posted this on FB and something about it didn't sit 100% right with me. What do y'all think?
"Accept what God sends into your life whether you understand it or not.” ”“Tim Keller
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Your thoughts on this quote
T
S
sermonindex
I agree bro. Doesn't it 100% with me either. There is stuff that comes into our life that could be of the enemy. As Tozso admonishes us. We must test the spirits. Or at least examine what is coming into our life to see if it is of God. Even then we must pray how to respond if it comes into our life if it is of Him.
There is stuff that comes into my life that is simply the result of my own sin and flesh. I can't say that is of God.
Simply my thiughts bro.
D
dolfan
I am unsure what he means.
I am unsure what "sends into your life" means.
It was a tweet, probably, right? ;)
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TMK
It was actually just a quote/meme on FB.
I think the gist is that we may have hardships etc in life and we are to be content and deal with it.
My initial thought (and how I responded) was what if God sends something into our life to see what we will do? What if He does not want us to just accept it? What if David had simply "accepted" Goliath?
J
JFW
Yeah I'm weary of vague statements posed as absolutes... just leaves too much room for deception and generally I've found them to be lacking.
Not to say I haven't given voice to personal experiences in this way with good intentions but usually got gut checked by Holy Spirit so maybe that's why I'm a lil weary of them.
Having said that, because of it's vagueness it can find compliments in scripture depending on how one reads it... for example, like when Paul asserts that he had learned the secret of contentment wether in lack or abundance, wether bound or free-
But again it's a very subjective thing imo.
edit for spelling
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dolfan
There's a scene in the movie "O Brother Where Art Thou?" where Governor Pappy O'Daniels' two assistants (not his son, but the other two guys) are sitting on a veranda and debating which phrase to use to describe how badly Pappy will be beaten in his re-election bid. Pappy's cigar dangles from his lips while he looks at them with the ultimate deadpan expression of frustration.
I don't want to go there in analyzing Keller's phrasing. :)
"Well, I'd say God sent that into his life."
"No, I don't believe so. I think this is more of a God ALLOWED it situation."
You get the idea.
I'm not big on Keller's writing. Lots of people are.
S
sermonindex
You don't always know right away if God sent it into your life. And you don't accept anything unless the Lord confirms it to you in your spirit and through the Word.
Once you find out it is not from God, you resist and reject in in Jesus name.
This is ambiguous, spiritual, feel good writing that sounds good on the surface.
J
JFW
Haha! That was good bro;)
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StirItUp
Well to be fair, the quote does say: Accept what GOD sends into your life ... so really the issue would be discerning whether it was actually GOD Who sent it :)
A
alamb
If you think that God has sent you any of your difficulties in life, no matter what your reasoning is, you wind up giving power to your troubles and that makes them a lot harder to get rid of...:)
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dolfan
Fletcher I KNEW another Alabama man would appreciate that !
:)
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twayneb
I will accept anything that GOD sends into my life. But having said that, here is the all important question...Did God send this (whatever "this" is) into my life?
There are times when God's plan for my life includes hardships for me. Look at Joseph. I recall a verse in 1 Peter that says that sometimes we suffer according to the will of God. I know that I usually do not grow or mature very much in the easy times, but rather in the times when I am having to go through some stuff.
But we have to be careful that we do not interpret every circumstance of life as having come from God. There are things that come our way that are NOT from God.
This brings to mind another thread going right now about hearing the voice of God directly, outside of what we read in scripture. I think we MUST be able hear the Holy Spirit as He speaks to us. Sure, scripture is the plumb-line that judges all special revelation, but God has given us the Holy Spirit for a reason, and one of the foundational reasons is found in 1 Corinthians 2. We need to be able to know the mind of Christ so we can properly judge what comes from God and what does not.
I would add to Mr. Keller's quote..."and do not accept what God does not send into your life, but rather use the word of God and the power of the Holy Spirit to resist and deal with it."
S
sermonindex
I have found that God allowed things to come into my life which harmed me but to say that He sent them would make Him unjust.
He just did not intervene and allowed the results of the sins of others or medical neglect and ignorance to have very negative effects.
It was later that l was able to understand that all things work to the good of those in Christ, and the sufferings that l have been through have enabled me to grow in wisdom and to be sanctified through them.
S
sermonindex
You wrote-
"But we have to be careful that we do not interpret every circumstance of life as having come from God. There are things that come our way that are NOT from God."
How?
The real question is - is God in TOTAL control or not?
If He is not in TOTAL control than he has NO control!
Look at Job. Do not forget the devil has to get permissive from God to affect your life.
Also
1 Thes 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
S
sermonindex
So glad this subject was brought up. There is a belief system that teaches "accept everything in your life as from God."
Briefly, two scriptures to think about:
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. RESIST the devil, and he will flee from you.
1 Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom RESIST stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
S
sermonindex
Christians resist the truth often, by receiving from evil spirits what is not of God. This is the reason we need discernment of spirits, to understand what to receive and what to reject. Not everything that comes to us is from God. DO NOT agree with the teaching that everything that comes to us is from God. You will become passive and receive teachings and manifestations from evil spirits. Have you forgotten, there is a Deceiver and you are in a war with the powers of darkness which counterfeits everything of God? Have you forgotten Ephesians 6?
Following from War on the Saints (page 90)
We need to refuse and resist the following:
"influence" of evil spirits.
"power" of evil spirits.
to be "led" by evil spirits.
to be "guided" by evil spirits.
to "obey" evil spirits.
to "pray" to evil spirits (familiar spirits)
to "ask" anything of evil spirits.
to "surrender" to evil spirits.
all "knowledge" from evil spirits.
to listen to evil spirits.
"visions" from evil spirits.
the "touch" of evil spirits.
"messages" from evil spirits (angels of "light").
all "help" from evil spirits.
The believer must revoke the consent he unknowingly gave to the workings of the deceivers. They have sought to work through him, therefore he now declares:
"I, myself, WILL to do my own work. In the past I willed not to do my work (passivity). This I NOW REVOKE for ever."
(from War on the Saints, page 24)
Since evil spirits can counterfeit God as Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, the believer needs also to know very clearly the principles upon which God works, so as to detect between the Divine and the Satanic workings. There is a "discernment" which is a spiritual gift, enabling the believer to discern "spirits," but this also requires knowledge of "doctrine" (1 John 4: 1), so as to discern between doctrine which is of God, and doctrines, or teachings, of teaching spirits.
There is a detecting, by the gift of discerning of spirits, which spirit is at work; and a test of spirits, which is doctrinal. In the former a believer can tell by a spirit of discernment, that the lying spirits are at work in a meeting, or in a person, but he may not have the understanding needed for testing the "doctrines" set forth by a teacher. He needs knowledge in both cases; knowledge to read his spirit with assurance in the face of all contrary appearances, that the supernatural workings are "of God"; and knowledge to detect the subtlety of "teachings" bearing certain infallible indications that they emanate
from the pit, while appearing to be from God.
In personal obedience to God, the believer can detect whether he is obeying God in some "command," by judging its fruits, and by knowledge of the character of God, such as the truth that (1) God has always a purpose in His commands, and (2) He will give no command out of harmony with His character and Word. Other factors needed for clear knowledge are dealt with later on.
(War on the Saints, page 24)
B
Bobbeers
Keller came from a school of thought that had God involved in everything to the point where the term "free will" was almost considered heresy. The basic problem with that, and the quote itself is that it contradicts the ministry of Jesus. There are numerous times where Jesus is recorded both rebuking the "doers of evil" and Satan himself. He even used terminology defining the source of certain thoughts and positions as being from the evil one.
If the Christian takes the time to get to know Jesus'; ministry, what he taught, what he said to those he interacted with and what he did and why, such quandaries as this will not be anything more than moot.
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sermonindex
Amen, Bobbeers! If we accept the teaching that we should receive everything as from God, then we will see that attitude first in our Forerunner, Jesus. Yet, Jesus routinely rejected, resisted and refused the powers of darkness, rather exposing them.
The teaching that "God is sovereign and whatever happens to me is God's will, is nothing more than gross passivity teaching".
1 John 4:1
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”
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TMK
The question on the table, at least for me, is whether God (not the devil) brings things in our life to see how we will react. Maybe he is not always pleased with wimpy submission.
What if He does not want to just "accept" it? What if He is testing our willingness to fight, or resist?
I think Joseph is a good example. It seems fairly clear that God wanted him in prison. He could have whined and complained and laid on his cot and just sat there saying "i must submit to my imprisonment." Or he could have done what he did- worked and schemed and figured out a way to position himself to get OUT of prison.
In other words, if God brings something into my life that is hard or difficult or painful or depressing, do I just have to sit there are take it? Maybe He is waiting for me to quit whining and change the atmosphere.
S
sermonindex
Starting at the beginning, Adam and Eve are a prime example of being deceived thinking everything is of God. Innocence and ignorance on Eve's part, although Adam willfully disobeyed. They were deceived by the Evil One and should have resisted with the words that God gave them (Word of God).
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twayneb
You wrote-"But we have to be careful that we do not interpret every circumstance of life as having come from God. There are things that come our way that are NOT from God."
How?
The real question is - is God in TOTAL control or not?
If He is not in TOTAL control than he has NO control!
Look at Job. Do not forget the devil has to get permissive from God to affect your life.
Also
1 Thes 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
tuc: I believe God is all powerful, but I do not believe this means that God is all controlling. It is hard to make a good analogy, because our own human experience is so limited, but it might be a little bit like the sole owner and CEO of a corporation being in complete control of his business, but not in complete control over all of the decisions of each of his employees. I know that is a limited analogy, but hopefully you get the basic principle.
There are things that God has put within our own power or control. For example, God has allowed me to choose whether or not to serve Him. He has allowed me to choose whether or not to obey Him. And along with this choice He has allowed me to suffer the consequences of my decision. Recall that Joshua said, "Choose you this day whom you will serve...but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Joshua had free choice in the matter. This is one place where God does not exercise total control (I choose my wording carefully here. It is not that He does not have total power and ability, but he chooses not to exercise direct control in this area). If that be the case, if God does not exercise direct control in this area, then there could be other areas where He also does not exercise direct control.
I personally don't believe that Satan has to go through God to get special permission to temp me each time he desires to do so. Of course, most times I am tempted it is not Satan directly tempting me anyway (James 1:14) I know that God has given me all things that pertain unto life and Godliness through Christ and that I have been given total power and authority to resist the devil and be victorious in doing so through the power of God. You see, I believe that I have been given the choice as to whether I will give in to temptation or not. When I choose to stand and resist, I submit myself to God and His power and anointing flow, allowing me to be victorious through Him. When I choose to yield to temptation, I become the servant of that which I have obeyed. Again my own choice dictates my future.
When I look at the atonement of Jesus Christ for our sins (Isaiah 53), I see two primary things that Christ paid for. One was the forgiveness of sins, the other was the healing of sickness. God does not place on me the things which His Son paid the price to set me free from. God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man. So I do not believe that God places on His servants sickness, nor does God tempt man with sin. I do believe that we will go through hard times, trials, persecution and the like because it is God's will that we do so. (See 1 Peter 4:19) Some may even die for Christ at His will and many have. Remember, death is not big thing, really. It is simply stepping out of this body.
One might say of sickness or sin, "yes, but He allows us to go through these things." Absolutely, but they are not ordained of Him. That is where the big difference lies in the views of believers. We live in a fallen world that is ruled, temporarily, by the enemy himself. We must therefore battle the enemy, as he will war against us. I do not believe that the enemy has to petition God every time he wants to try me with sickness. I live in a world where man ceded his authority in Adam and where the second Adam paid the price so that man might regain authority delegated to Him by God and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. But at this point Satan still retains the temporary title "god of this world". 2 Corinthians 4:4. It is up to us to use that authority to resist and fight against the things that come at us that are not of God.
One other question that might come up. One might say, "Yes, but does God not use all things for our good and for His glory?" Absolutely yes, for a specific group of people, those who love God and who are called according to His purposes. But God's ability to redeem any and all circumstances for His glory and for our good does not imply that all of those circumstances originated from Him. I know of many who were miraculously set free from drugs, alcohol, sexual bondage, etc. whose experiences in those things are a powerful tool for ministry to see others set free. Yet, these people did not enter into, nor go through these sins at God's leading or direction. They chose to disobey, to reject God, and to go off into sin. God redeemed them, and their past is now usable by God for His glory.
Just my view brother, and I hope I articulated it correctly.
BTW: I personally believe that when Paul says, "for this is the will of God" in 1 Thess., that he is talking about giving thanks, not the "every thing" that happens. In other words, It is God's will that you give thanks no matter what the circumstances.
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twayneb
Starting at the beginning, Adam and Eve are a prime example of being deceived thinking everything is of God. Innocence and ignorance on Eve's part, although Adam willfully disobeyed. They were deceived by the Evil One and should have resisted with the words that God gave them (Word of God).
Julius: I agree. God did not send the temptation the way of Adam and Eve. In fact, Adam and Eve made a choice that directly contradicted God's spoken will for them.
By the way, I know this is a bit of a tangent, and I do not want to hijack the thread and go another direction, but I personally believe that Satan's initial rebellion against God occurred at the exact moment that he tempted Eve. I believe he was jealous of the authority and autonomy God gave man on earth and that he said, "I will have my own authority. I will be like God as well and make my own decisions." To think that Satan would actually believe that He could storm heaven and take it by force is, to me, unbelievable. I believe he had to do it be subtly. He decided to take the authority that man had been given by deception. There are some key passages that lead me to this conclusion.
Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28 (Satan was in the garden as the anointed Cherub), and Psalm 115:16, Hebrews 2, Psalm 8
S
sermonindex
That's interesting twayneb. As the angels watched Lucifer become successful in his deception, 1/3 may have thought he was more powerful than God by overturning what God had said and decided to join Lucifer thinking he was more powerful. Interesting, how God tests everything He created, even Angels.
Only thing is, Lucifer overturned what God said to man, he did not overturn or overcome God. That was his deception. In deceiving and overcoming the creation, he thought he was overcoming God.
Thing is he did not appear as an angel but a snake. But, I suppose Adam and Eve saw no evil in anything, especially the creation of God (animals, amphibians, fish, etc). So, they were not terrified by the snake.
Could be an interesting new thread and I agree we should not derail this one.
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forrests
Brenda,
Please trust me that I am not trolling you - but I have a question about your position. You state:
I have found that God allowed things to come into my life which harmed me but to say that He sent them would make Him unjust.
Why do you think it's unjust of God to send things to us that harm us? I know that in the bible God sent harm to His people when He saw fit. Is there a reason why you don't believe He can act that way still?
You also mention "the sins of others", yet don't mention one's own sin. Do you believe that one can be "chastened by God" through "harmful things"?
Just looking to have an edifying discussion, honest.
F
forrests
Julius,
You say the following regarding the fall of man in the garden of Eden:
Innocence and ignorance on Eve's part...
But was it really? She did tell the serpent what God had said: how that they were forbidden from eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and what the wages of such a transgression of God's word were...
***
And the woman said to the serpent,
"We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
~ Genesis 3:2-3
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sermonindex
I personally think a better way to state/say it is that "God sent Israel" & "now sends All His children" TESTS & CORRECTION/DISCIPLINE as He sees fit for our own good (as Hebrews says outright and scripture gives examples of constantly). My 2 cents.
S
sermonindex
Paul sheds additional light when he mentioned Eve was beguiled. He actually agrees with Eve.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent BEGUILED ME, and I did eat.
2Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, AS THE SERPENT BEGUILED EVE through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
We see another example of "beguiling" with Jacob.
Gen 29:25 And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah: and he said to Laban, What is this thou hast done unto me? did not I serve with thee for Rachel? wherefore then hast thou BEGUILED me?
Basically, you have been tricked. Interesting that God makes it a point in Genesis 3:1 to make sure we know that the "serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field". Why was it so important to tell us that? Because, in Eve's innocence and ignorance she was tricked?
Eve was innocent in that unlike Adam, she was not willfully and rebelliously transgressing or "not hearkening to the voice of the Lord". She was ignorant in that she was going on what we all presume Adam told her. Do you think Adam was already beginning to transgress by adding to God's word and telling Eve that "neither shall ye touch it"? I wonder. Where did she get that idea? She was being faithful to Adam and saying that it should not be eaten. Was she also being faithful to Adam in saying it should not be touched or did she add it? She did preface her remarks with "God hath said". We don't know but I believe she was telling Satan what Adam conveyed to her. But Adam seemed to be watching the whole thing to see what would really happen. How cowardly, using his wife as a guinea pig, lab rat.
Adam could have been the first man that was a false teacher and the first man to add to God's Word. Most people think Eve added the phrase on her own but who really knows? God did not correct her for not hearkening to His voice or adding to His word, did He? But He did correct Adam for not hearkening to His voice.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast HEARKENED UNTO THE VOICE OF THY WIFE, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying...
Did Eve lie? Or, maybe Adam told her not to touch the fruit. Did Eve misquote God? At most, she misquoted Adam. Eve made a mistake, she was not culpable. Eve was not being tested by God's Word, Adam was. God never told Eve that she could not eat of the tree. He told Adam and Eve was not created, yet. God was testing Adam, not Eve. It was the disobedience of Adam which was the transgression (poison/sin). The fruit had no inherent poison to it, it was the disobedience of God's spoken Word to Adam which was the transgression. It has always been called Adam's transgression.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
To Eve, first, God promises the Messiah through her seed, then He pronounces a judgment. But HE never said she transgressed His word as He said to Adam. Why didn't God bring this to Eve's attention? That she "did not hearken unto His word?"
Sometimes I wonder if radical feminism came about because of misogynists. Both are wrong and both are two sides of the same evil coin.
Additionally, I wonder if the lack of "nourishing and cherishing women" as Christ does the Church and instead ruling over them with a heavy hand has caused them to harden their heart and seek safety in their own numbers, rejecting men. Men look at women and say they are rebellious and unruly, but never look at themselves. It is not natural for a woman to reject men as God says "thy desire shall be to thy husband". So, husbands have to look at themselves and ask if it is something they did or are doing. A good, spiritual wife can help us see things we are not aware of if we are truly humble and take seriously the scripture that she is an "heir of life and grace" with us.
What did you think of those early church father quotes that Brenda gave. I was absolutely shocked to say the least. If this attitude of man has been going on for centuries, it is no surprise we are where we are today. Very sad, I see a lot of broken people. It is an epidemic today, and in the church no less.
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forrests
Two quick things (as I am walking out the door to bring my family to Bible study):
1. You seem to make way too much out of the "neither shall you touch it" part… Seems like good advice; even if not from God Himself, from her head who was acting as a covering and protecting her. No need to be touching a forbidden object, no? Seems like a wise word of caution. Surely telling your wife not to touch a thing God has forbidden you from partaking in can't be construed as the cause of her disobedience and deception and sin.
And I'm not convinced that it wasn't God Himself that said this anyhow.
Also, being deceived by Satan does not exonerate the deceived one. We see many places in the bible where men are deceived and yet still culpable.
2. I recommend studying the "desire" that Eve was going to have toward her husband. Same word that God said sin's desire was for Cain, but he should rule over it. Check it out.
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