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Turkey and Erdogan Bear Watching

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sermonindex

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One should not underestimate what took place in Turkey a few days ago. The news outlets (whose credibility is certainly questioned) reported an attempted military coup against the government of Turkey. Later it was reported that they were moderates in the military who were attempting to overthrow the Islamic keaning president of Turkey, Recep Tayip Erdogan (G is pronounced like a "w" in last name like Erdowan). The forces of Erdogan prevailed. The coup was crushed. Thus consolidating Erdogan's power. And as brother Frank wisely posted a few days ago. There will be hell to pay on the part of those that started the coup.

Some are already raising questions as to whether this coup might have been staged by Erdogan himself. A deliberate attempt on his part to consolidate his power. Whether Erdogan staged the coup himself or whether this was a last ditch effort on the part of secular moderates to prevent Turkey from drifting toward Islam, the fact remains Erdogan is in sole control of Turkey.

Articles reporting on the aftermath of the coup show large numbers of civil servants being fired, purges of the military, and the judicial system being brought under the control of Erdogan. Also several thousand have been arrested in connection with the coup. And Erdogan is calling for the execution of those involved with the coup.

Some of you reading this may be yawning and saying "well so what". That is over there. Why put this on the board. Before you blow me off please hear me. What may happen in Turkey may very well have prophetic overtones in the months to come.

Modern Turkey as we know it was birthed in 1923 after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The father of modern turkey is Mustafa Kenal Ataturk. Up until 2002 he was revered as the George Washington of modern Turkey. Ataturk sought to establish turkey on secular democratic grounds. His intention was to separate the Islamic religion from a secular government in Turkey. He wanted Turkey to be a western aligned nation. Separating itself from its Ottoman history of several hundred years.

A safeguard was built in that the military would step in and overthrow the government if the government was leaning toward Islam. This worked three previous times in Turkish history. When the government was leaning towards an Islamic stance. The Turkish military loyal to the nation stepped in and deposed the current government. And put in place a more secular government to be established. So what took place a few days ago was actually a last-ditch effort of moderates to protect Turkey as a secular state.

European governments as well as the US are praising the crushing of the coup as the preservation of a democratically elected goveenment. How decieved they are.

I said earlier that Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was revered as the father of modern secular Turkey. But this changed in 2002 with the election of Recep Tayip Etdogan, a hard line Muslem, who apparently has ambitions re-establishing and Islamic Caliphate with Turkey as its head. And he himself being the next sultan of such a caliphate.

Erdogan has in the last 14 years undermined the secular leanings of Turkey by introducing Islam into the country's fabric. Whereas the government and the Islamic religion were separate. Erdogan has brought Islam into the mainstream of Turkish society. Time will not allow me to spell out the details. But one can Google to see how Erdogan has virtually transformed Turkey into an up-and-coming Islamic State. And the scary thing is this has the support of most of the Turkish people.

One of the things that Erdogan did was purged the military of secular commanding officers and appointed those who were Islamic and loyal to him in their place. This is one of the reasons I believe that the last coup failed. Those loyal to Erdogan in positions of command authority were able crush the coup.

By now you're probably yawning and saying "why the history lesson"? "Like who really cares?" Brother and sister we need to care. Because Turkey may very well become the Gog and Magog of the North that will invade Israel.

People such as Joel Richardson, who is an astute student of biblical prophecy, have written about the rise of Islamic caliphate in Turkey. They have written about Turkey being the gog of the north who will invade Israel. They have been laughed at. But I believe after the events of the last few days. Perhaps people such as Joel Richardson may be taking a little more seriously.

Even people such as Glenn Beck and George W Bush have spoken about the rise of an Islamic caliphate the mid 2000's. They were laughed at. After ISIS came on the scene and declared itself a caliphate. The laughter stopped.

ISIS will probably be history in a few months. But Turkey and Erdogan bear close watching.

These are strictly my thoughts. This is strictly my opinion. There is no thus says the Lord. Strictly the thoughts of one who is trying to watch and pray.

Posted by Blaine Scogin.

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sermonindex

Islam will certainly have a prominent place to play in the end times. Though to what degree I cannot tell. But I wonder if Turkey will be leading the Islamic charge?

Just pondering this.

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TMK

I was more nervous when the USSR was Gog.

On what scriptural basis do you say Islam will play a part in the end times? Is it based on anything besides geography?

And no, I am not going to read any Joel Richardson, at least not today. Prophecy books have an uncanny ability of bring embarrassingly wrong.

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sermonindex

Just watch and pray brother. Simply watch and pray. I'm simply suggesting that Erdogan and Turkey bear watching.

My thoughts.

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dolfan

It is a humble admonition. I am not worried, but I am watching.

You know, every year we get reports in April or so about the expected levels of hurricane activity. The climate change crowd construes the information toward global warming no matter if more or fewer hurricanes are predicted. It is a regular atmospheric oddity -- global warming no matter how warm or cool the air gets.

This believer [pointing at myself] believes that a cascade of prophecy chatter from so many people of so many varying and opposing views of Scripture is a tool of Satan to distract us from the centrality of the simple truth of the bible. I am quite confident, and becoming more so, in my own understanding of things concerning the return of Christ; I've been a Christian since 1987, and this is new for me. It is also with an urgency I've never known.

So, I share Blaine's heart about why to post something like this. It comes from a heart of wanting us to endure, to persevere, to get before God and let the Holy Spirit do things in our own spirits that we have resisted until now. Whatever you think about the time of the end -- and it does matter what we think, what we understand, the substantive details of it -- surely we can agree on this one theme until we all come to unity of in the knowledge of Jesus:

"Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus" and "walk worthy of the calling wherein you are called."

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sermonindex

Agreed my brother. We are not to worry but simply to be on the alert. Or as one translation says watch and pray.

For sure we are to be anxious for nothing. For His peace will guard our hearts and ninds in Jesus. But we are told through 1st Peter 4:7, the end of all things is near. Therefore be sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

Brother Blaine

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docs

It might be this or it might be that as many say so why worry just be ready. That works to a degree except that Jesus said you would be able to see certain chronological markers and events announced by him long before. Admist all this he also said, "Behold, I have told you in advance, "so His word and not the newspapers should be the central focus of analysis leading to insight. The entrance of Your words give light O Lord.

Meanwhile, Turkey will be one of the final invaders of Palestine when events are coming to a literal dramatic culmination. It's not wrong to show a little interest in what is occurring in Turkey.

"The Nations of Ezekiel 38-39" - one of the best articles I have found on the subject from a pre-mill view if that is where you are at.

http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/eschatology/ezekiel.htm

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TMK

Quoting the last line of one of one of my favorite movies: "Why don't we just wait here a little while and see what happens."

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ginnyrose

Blaine wrote:

"Islam will certainly have a prominent place to play in the end times."

I agree.

A few years ago as I was studying Revelation I had a growing unease that Islam will play an important role in the end times. Until this point I had never heard anyone express this idea...it came as I was reading, pondering the end times.

Years ago we thought communism will be a dominate player in the end times but then Glasnost happened and communism no longer was a threat to world peace. Then we wondered at our understanding of who the dominate players will be in the endtimes. Back then someone said communism did not disappear, it just went underground. Today I understand this point and believe it is resurfacing. If communism and Islam were to join forces we would have a system that is totally frightening. Dunno if it will happen but it not beyond the realm of possibility.

For once I am glad to be old..not young like most here on SI.

Sandra

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docs

It may not be a blend of communism and Islam coming together but I hear what you are saying. One thing Islam hates in any form is what it sees as unbelief and communism is founded on atheism. Islam's off the charts hatred of the Jew in its midst is what is compelling this latest surge in jihadism. It's not hard to connect that to Satan's plan to thwart any kingdom purposes that involves the Jewish people and Israel. That coupled with its hatred of the west plus Islam carries on a constant civil war internally. That's why so many Muslims are killed by other Muslims. It's built into the fabric of the religion. In their view apostates can be found within Islam if they aren't toeing the line doctrinally so they must be eliminated and purged. It's a monster devouring itself even as it preaches jihad against outside forces mainly the Jew and the west. Superstition and violence are two of the main spirits driving Islam besides Hades itself. To think that they covet Jerusalem as a prize jewel because a myth was floated in the 6th century that Muhammed ascended from a rock in Jerusalem. Not so! Yet eliminating the carnal seed of Jewry remains at the top of their list. I believe Islam will be involved but whatever form it takes Daniel described the fourth and final beast as "different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful" (Dan 7:19) and "one which will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it" (Dan 7:23). Thank the good Lord that "the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him" (Dan 7:26-27).

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sermonindex

Saints I certainly agree. Of course none of us really knows what will me the details of the end times. But Jesus does tell us in the gospel accounts to be on the alert.

I agree with Sandra that at one time communism was the main challenge to the church. But with the fall of communism there was a vacuum. Islam stepped in to fill that vacuum. And we see more of a global challenge coming from Islam than communism ever presented. To that end I think Islam will play a very prominent place in the end time scenario. Thiugh the particulars of how it will be worked out will be in God's sovereignty.

In the meantime we must thank God for the opportunity to preach the gospel to the Muslims who are turning to Jesus Christ in record numbers.

Brothers and sisters these are simply my thoughts from the wall.

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TMK

Where is Islams Air Force and navy- particularly radical ISIS type Islam?

It seems the only reason we have not destroyed this threat is because of our distaste for collateral damage.

I agree that radical Islam is a threat to Israel because of proximity but even Israel has greatly restrained themselves.

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sermonindex

I believe air and naval forces of radical Islam will manifest itself in the Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 and 39 Coalition that will come against Israel. That's why Turkey bears watching. Because they may be the nation leading the charge against Israel.

However if one is inclined to look at Psalm 83
And Ezekiel 38 and 39 as already being fulfilled, then the above observation will be rejected.

Irregardless of one's eschatological view of the end times. Turkey and Erdogan still need to be watched. But I see Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 and 39 as having a future fulfillment. But this is simply my own conviction.

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sermonindex

I might add Israel possessess tactical nuclear weapons. If they feel they are being threatened. They will initiate what is known as the "Samson Option". I think we are familiar with the story of Samson in the Old Testament. He brought the temple down on himself and his enemies.

If Israel feels threatened by her enemies. The message is you may get us. But we will take many of you with us.

When Saddam launched the scud missiles at Israel during the first Gulf War. My understanding is Israel went to nuclear alert. It took a lot of arm-twisting on the part of Caspar Weinberger and George H. W Bush to restrain Israel from retaliating against Iraq.

How all this will play out in the end times I do not know. But should radical islamist come against Israel. There will be a heavy price to pay.

Again simply my thoughts.

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TMK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes?wprov=sfsi1

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TMK

Ezekiel 38:14 "Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: In that day, when my people Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it?

By any stretch of the imagination can it be said that Israel is living in safety?

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sermonindex

Brother this is not the thread to debate preterism. Whatever your eschatological views are. The fact is we are living in turbulent times.

Like it wisely said. Let's just wait a little while and see what happens. By the way what movie was that from. :-) I might want to watch it.

My thoughts bro.

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sermonindex

No right now Israel is not living in safety. However Israel is negotiating with Turkey and establishing or re-establishing diplomatic relations with them. Maybe they will be lulled into a false sense of security by Erdogan.

Only just an observation bro. Don't know how it will play out. But I keep thinking in my spirit we need to watch turkey. But then for that matter I think we need to be watching the whole world. :-)

Again just my thoughts bro.

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TMK

I agree that we are living in perilous times and watchfulness is the best policy.

At the risk of being branded a heretic, the movie was "the thing" with Kurt Russell. I really liked the original black and white version but this remake was well done. Scary though.

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sermonindex

Oooh! Herectical bro. :):)

Hey do you know who played The Thing in the original black-and-white version?

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dolfan

Blaine, was it this guy?

http://addamsfamily.wikia.com/wiki/Thing

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sermonindex

Actually bro it was James Arness who played the out of soace monster in the black and white version of The Thing

James Arness is best known for his role as Matt Dillon in the western Gunsmoke. Ran for many years on TV.

A little movie trivia you can impress your friends with. :-)

But I thought the hand was kind of cool in The Munsters.

T
TMK

And with quite a twist of irony the last line of the original "the thing" was "watch the skies --everywhere-- keep looking-- keep watching the skies."

Isn't that apropos.

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sermonindex

Better get this thread back on a more serious footing. Washington Post article says that Turkey is cracking down on dissadents. Turkish Educators banned from traveling abroad. A number of educators are being fired or arrested.

This is generally the step in a dictatorship. That is to go after the educators and the media. Turkey seems to be following this pattern.

Article goes on to state that there will be more purges of the military. Where is the military had formerly been the guardian of secularism in Turkey. Attempts are being made to bring the military under Islamic control. Translate that more under Erdogan's control.

No doubt more to follow.

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sermonindex

Watch and see bro. I believe our Redemption draweth nigh.

Just my humble thought.

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sermonindex

Okay post is reedited. Had to full length because link does not go to article. Will try to see how to get link on forum.

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docs

Israel was not dwelling in safety either in 70 AD when a invasion and seige came. They are not in safety today so a time is to come when they will believe they are in a time of peace.

15 Because you have said, "We have made a pact. The overwhelming scourge will not reach us when it passes by, for we have made falsehood our refuge and we have concealed ourselves with deception."

18 And your covenant with death shall be cancelled, and your pact with Sheol shall not stand; when the overwhelming scourge passes through, then you will become its trampling place. (Isaiah 28:15,18)

The, when they say peace and safety...

8 After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitatnts have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and THEY ARE LIVING SECURELY, all of them.

9 And you will go up, you will come like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land, you and your troops, and many people with you.

10 ‘Thus says the Lord God, "It will come about on that day, that thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil plan,

11 and you will say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those WHO ARE AT REST, THAT LIVE SECURELY, all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates,

12 to capture spoil and to seize plunder, to turn your hand against the waste places which are now inhabited, and against the people who are gathered from the nations, who have acquired cattle and goods, who live at the center of the world.’ (Ezekiel 38:8-11)

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sermonindex


The Recent Turkish Coup: What It Means and How to Pray

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-recent-turkish-coup-what-it-means-and-how-to-pray

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sermonindex

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The Failed Coup Against Erdogan Will Ease the Way Toward the Arabization of Turkey - Slate
Slate Ӽ articles Ӽ foreigners Ӽ 2016/07
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2016/07/why_the_failed_turkish_coup_will_empower_erdogan.html

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