The post election world for Christians

What is around the corner for the Body of Christ? I believe that within the next ten years we will be living in a society that will not accept the fundamental teachings of the Bible. How will this play out? We are heading for a time very soon where born again Christians will not be allowed to teach in public schools first, then in any schools. We will be banned from colleges and universities. We will not be allowed on the police force or the armed forces. There will be no government job open to any genuine saint. Media will rid themselves of anyone holding to views that run counter to the popular culture. Homosexuality and your views towards it will be a litmus test in every sphere of life, and not just public life. You will be deemed as unfit parents if you teach the biblical truth that homosexuality is a sin. For homosexuality will move fully into the category of civil rights. No pastor will be able to refuse to marry two men or two women, and if he does, he will lose any official capacity. Christian businesses will be boycotted at the behest of the state and then banned outright.

Now the strange thing is, outside of irony, that none of this will have anything to do with homosexuality in and of itself. No, this has to do with the truth. It's always been about the truth. In every century and in the last two millennium its been about the truth. After the litmus test of homosexuality will come an assault on the great pillar of truth itself. Jesus says " I am the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6) This, even more so that people's views on sexuality, will be the rod that will be used to strike the backs of every genuine saint. You see, the world will demand that all those who believe that there is only one way to heaven and that all other paths lead to hell, be "put away." And so it will all come down to truth and our love and commitment to it. The thing about truth is, no matter what the subject, whether it was as in previous centuries infant baptism or transubstantiation, its adherents will not yield. Not because they are particularly invested in one subject or the other but they are sold out to all of it and all that it encompasses even to the point of death. And why? Because the genuine saint has fallen in love with Truth. Jesus is the way and in that way we must walk. Jesus is truth and upon His revealed truth we must stand. Jesus is life, and only by walking in Him and standing upon Him can we have that life.

So get ready saints. It will be difficult but is there anything too difficult for God? We will have to persevere and overcome but remember all the promises of the Lord are made to those who overcome and endure till the end. For a long time in the West we saints have had little resistance from the authorities. It will not be so anymore. The Son of man is coming back in all of His glory and the enemy of our soul knows it well. The Lord has prepared a place for us and we must take hold of that place. For those who stand upon the truth have a high tower in the Lord. For those who do not yield to the world but trust the Lord in all their ways, they will have a peace which surpasses all understanding. There are no surprises to God, He knows what is coming against His children and He has equipped us for such a time as this. Hold all things loosely but never let Him go. Esteem not the praises of men and do trust in them, but look to Jesus the author and the finisher of our faith. He and He alone is able to fulfill and complete the work that He has begun in you and He will be faithful to do just that. That part is His work, our part is to trust and obey and we will see that there is no other way.....bro Frank

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Th 2:10-12)

Amen Tim, we can do nothing without His Spirit, being baptized in His Holy Spirit is such a vital part of being in Christ and that without being endued with such power from on high we can do nothing. I always take that truth to be self evident in everything that I write. Those who believe that there is no need to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit or deny the sign gifts of the Spirit I have nothing really to say to other than may the Lord help you because outside of His Spirit we can do nothing especially in the days in which we live where strong delusion is coming upon Christendom...........bro Frank

PS this is not a thread about Baptism in the Holy Spirit, we know ho many times that has been debated here before.

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...... Double Post.....

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Brother I agree with your OP. But respectfully I don't think we have 10 years left. Maybe 3 to 5. But none the less. We are headed toward darkness. And I pray for the few, the remnant, to awaken and be the kight of Christ in the midst of that darkness.

As usual simply ny thoughts.

Could be right bro Blaine, there is a seven year trib period to come and I dont believe we have entered that, but I do believe we are in one of the stages of birth pangs or beginning of sorrows..............bro Frank

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Bro could be 10 years. I won't quibble over the length of time. All I can say is we're going to looking at all hell breaking loose pretty soon. And it ain't going to be pretty.

Our only sure hope is to trust in Jesus.

My thoughts bro.

What is around the corner for the Body of Christ? I believe that within the next ten years we will be living in a society that will not accept the fundamental teachings of the Bible.

My thoughts were also could it even be much closer then 10 years! Tonight at the dinner table I spoke very seriously to my wife and children that God has a plan to end the entire age before the coming of the Lord and that plan is not based on our comfort or situation in life. It is going to come abruptly and ruin all of our plans, but I said we can rejoice that Jesus will be coming and He will bring us to meet with Him in the end.

The world is not going to go on for ever. Excellent words and warnings to us brother Frank. Very few are clearly by the Spirit of God warning the saints that are not associated with filthy lucre and a deception of fear and not true spiritual preparation.

Bro Greg writes.......

"My thoughts were also could it even be much closer then 10 years! Tonight at the dinner table I spoke very seriously to my wife and children that God has a plan to end the entire age before the coming of the Lord and that plan is not based on our comfort or situation in life. It is going to come abruptly and ruin all of our plans, but I said we can rejoice that Jesus will be coming and He will bring us to meet with Him in the end."

I agree with those who believe that it could happen much sooner than 10 years. I see two possible scenarios both leading to the same conclusion. Scenario number one is that nothing dramatic happens but we keep going down the same road we have been going down as a society. Scenario number two, which I believe a distinct possibility and have written about previously, a catalyst event takes place and everything changes overnight. The building blocks are in place for either scenario...............bro Frank

Below is a previous post speaking to the catalyst possibility where things change overnight....................

A possible scenario for end times.......

This subject can be very difficult to approach today because there have been so many crazy people claiming when the end of the world would happen. The below scenario reckons on the saints going through the great tribulation. Therefore there is no particular day or hour that is looked for, rather a season, birth pangs if you like. We are told by Jesus that we should be able to discern the signs of the times, not the day nor the hour of His return. In any event, most Peoples of the world and the church have a difficult time imagining a time where Christians would be hunted down and killed for the mere fact of being Christian. They may be able to imagine this in a Muslim world setting, but not in the West. I do not claim that the scenario below is prophetic, I merely wish to show you a logical procession of events that could lead to a world-wide persecution of the true saints.

I think we may all agree that Jesus is coming relatively soon. Where we may disagree is on the subject of rapture. Lets assume there is no rapture and Jesus is coming soon, then the saints will go through the great tribulation. The Scriptures tells us that it will be worse than anything that has ever happened before in history, in fact the Lord must shorten those days for the elects sake or we would all be dead.

Just 70 years ago, in the heart of educated and cultured Europe, in a country that pronounced itself to be Christian, an evil man arose and in six short years, killed six million Jews for the mere fact of being Jewish. He shoved them into gas chambers and then burned them in furnaces, men, woman and children, sparing none. Now this is not some Biblical genocide from the ancient world, this is something that happened just 70 years ago. Now what kind of events would need to unfold for the world to turn on Christians and for their to be a coming together of the world religions into one religion?

Lets say tomorrow there is an attack by Muslim extremists on multiple cities. New York, Washington, London, Paris Rome and Moscow are hit simultaneously with nuclear suitcase bombs. Rather than the three thousand dead of 9/11, there is one hundred thousand dead in each city. The world is repulsed and is brought together because of this great tragedy. Fundamentalists of all stripes are universally condemned and outlawed. To state publicly that there is only one true religion, only one way to heaven, becomes illegal. Such people are denounced as those who have caused all the troubles in the world. They are seen as a cancer on society which society must rid itself of.

So society gives them a chance to renounce such believes. At the same time, the major religions of the world have a summit. Islam, Christianity and the Jewish faith come together for a summit in Rome. Pope Francis leads the summit because he is universally respected. When the meeting is over they announce that they can all trace their roots back to Abraham. That they all worship the same God just in different ways. They announce that there are multiple roads to heaven and that to say otherwise is merely hate speech. They agree to drop Jesus and Mohammed from their literature and only speak in terms of God and His prophets, agreeing to stand upon what they agree on and bringing a historic unity that will usher in a new day, a new order for the world where there is equality for all.

The vast majority of the world hail this and rejoice in it. A small minority resist it and in the shadow of the multiple hundreds and thousands of deaths, the world hates them with a perfect hatred. They hate them more than the Germans hated the Jews. The minority cannot find work and are ultimately arrested for continuing to ” share the Gospel.” While they are a minority, they are still in the millions and camps are set up to imprison them because the prison system cannot contain them. An ever-growing hatred by the general public and resentment that they have to be fed and kept eventually leads to the decision to make it a capital offense punishable by death to be a fundamental Christian.

If I had time and space, I could weave into that scenario the rise of the anti-christ who orchestrates all of those events and performs signs and wonders and miracles in front of the whole world to legitimize what he and the Pope and the religious leaders are teaching and saying about the minority, the remnant who refused to bow their knees to such a world religion. I want you to imagine such a man, before the camera’s of the world, healing a man blind from birth, or raising a man from the dead. The whole world will follow after such a man, and the world religious leaders who are now one would verify that he is in fact, God returned............bro Frank

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Brother that scenario you mentioned may not be too far from reality. As a matter of fact I would say it's very real. We know that 911 came about as a result of meticulous planning. The recent attacks in Europe have come about as a result of meticulous planning. With the increase of Isis and their presence being felt in many nations. It is not far from the realm of possibilities that's such a scenario you put for it can very well come for it. The cities may change. The particulars may change. But all we need is for even one nuclear event to occur in even one city. And that would shock the world.

We need to start having the hard discussions with our families. We need to start speaking of persecution and the realities of imprisonment and martyrdom. I know some in this forum would decry such. They would say that they cannot raise their children on a steady diet of persecution and martyrdom.

Yet our brothers and sisters in restricted nations have these discussions with their families. Those in persecuted nations live with the reality that this could very well be their last day on earth.

There is a video put out by Voice of the Martyrs called Leina's prayer. In that video she describes what she had to go through delay her husband and children down on the altar. Dealing with the reality that maryrdom would come to their home. But she eventually laid everything at the cross. The sister was in Syria.

Some in the Forum will say this is America. It will never happen here. Tell that to the 9 families whose loved ones were martyrded in Charleston, South Carolina last summer. Tell that to the loved ones of the nine students who were martyred in Roseburg Oregon last fall. Tell that to the loved ones of the three believers who lost their lives in the attack in San Bernardino. And then come back on this forum and say that it will never happen here.

I commend Greg for having the hard discussion with his family. I believe others will need to have those hard discussions with their families.

Brothers and sisters we must take up our cross and be dead to the world and alive as unto Christ.

Somply my thoughts from the foot of the cross.

Brother Blaine writes........

"I commend Greg for having the hard discussion with his family. I believe others will need to have those hard discussions with their families."

I do too bro Blaine. It is sad that some would accuse him of panic or fear, actually it is quite the opposite. The post election comment from me stands no matter who is elected. To think that whoever is in power makes no difference is naive, the Germans found that out the hard way as did the church in Germany. I am glad that in those days there were people like Bonhoffer who saw it coming and stood ready with a reply and a reaction to what unfolded.

It is always good to be prepared in one's heart and mind and soul and to actually have the kinds of conversations that Greg had with his family, not to instill fear ( typically people who say that are actually fearful themselves and have no desire to face the coming storm) but to instill the spiritual reality that come what may the Lord is on the throne and we may have to give the ultimate sacrifice if called upon but that the Lord will be with us. Jesus always knew that He had come to die on the cross, but He still prepared Himself for it and no where do we see this more than on Gethsemane. If Jesus had to prepare Himself for what was to come, then it might be presumptious and proud of us to think we do not need to prepare ourselves...............bro Frank

by JFW on 2016/8/3 9:46:24

Brothers,
For me personally- my post election world is the same as this one....
Jesus is still on the throne!
all else is, for me, far less a concern or focus.

When people say to me with a sense of urgency or sometimes panic "what are we to do if so in so gets elected? The thought of that scares me!"
I smile and confidently proclaim to them, "Jesus is on the throne no matter who sits in the White House and He is our King and our hope, so be of good cheer for He is faithful to those who love Him"
So I don't really have a pre or post election world so much as I have a "I was once dead in sin world but now made alive in Christ world"
The only election I'm concerned about is making certain I am one of His:)

Me too, JFW. Jesus still has my vote. And we can be at peace in the midst of the storm.

When people say to me with a sense of urgency or sometimes panic "what are we to do if so in so gets elected? The thought of that scares me!"
I smile and confidently proclaim to them, "Jesus is on the throne no matter who sits in the White House and He is our King and our hope, so be of good cheer for He is faithful to those who love Him"
So I don't really have a pre or post election world so much as I have a "I was once dead in sin world but now made alive in Christ world"
The only election I'm concerned about is making certain I am one of His:)

Me too, JFW. Jesus still has my vote. And we can be at peace in the midst of the storm.

I raised my kids on the reality of persecution being part of the Christian life. The one who please God rather than men is promised persecution and all my children have already experienced degrees of it with their friends and family. They have been reading Voice of the Martyrs magazine since they were able to read. If a father and mother are not teaching their children about the reality of persecution in the Christian life or showing their children by example how to respond to persecution, then they are doing their children a grave disservice. We see what happened in China where escapism was preached and recently in North Korea and other countries. Jesus clearly did not pluck his people out of the world but He will see His people through it.

It is patently wrong to preach and teach a false security.

Agreed Frank.

It's the usual "either/or" extreme absolutism response that seems to get more and more prevelant. Fact is, "Jesus is on the throne" irrespective of who is in the White House, yes. But Jesus isn't even on the ballet for a 4-year address in Washington DC. Such aetherial avoidance of here and now reality is sometimes almost laughable if not so serious in implication & reality.

No one is saying voting for a specific candidate is a vote against Jesus. If you see "Jesus Christ" on the ballet, please take a picture & post it on the Internet so everyone can see it. Sometimes the metaphorical allegory crowd tends to turn everything into something that's just an atherial allegory. This can actually be avoidance of reality now here on earth too. "Occupy until I come"? Does that mean acting as if time and space and temporal living this side of eternity is insignificant? This is the ancient Christo-Platonic wrong idea mixed from bad theology, philosophy, history & Bible. Augustine & Origen, no surprise here, we're of this school that really can be traced to Plato & Ancient Greek Philosophy. In fact, it was I think Augustine who said (if it wasn't Augustine, it was Origen) that "Plato was as close to a Christian as one could come shy of the Gospel". No surprise to me that coincidentally they were also the fathers of Replacement theology, preteristic eschatological hermeneutics as well. Once someone gets so "metaphorically Christian" in every single discussion or area of anything, then nothing matters. In fact, this Christo-Platonistic worldview is in line with the gnostic view that "the material world is inheritently bad" (not the world the scriptures speaks of as the spirit driving this world, but the actual earth) & "only heaven is good" (not the spirit that reigns there specifically, but the actual materiality of it itself). This is where the escapism, monastic, aetherial metaphoricalism thinking stems from in such circles. Its origins are Greek mythology & its philosophers. I know & understand such thinking derivatives as one who was once a Psychology major & Philosophy Minor.

But yes, these are like many of the aetherial German Christians who thought it didn't matter about Hitler, the Jews or whatever, because after all, "Jesus is on the throne". While that's true, the leader of Germany during the holocaust was actually Adolph Hitler. And He wrongly (demonically) used the scriptures and the false doctrines of Martin Luther concerning the Jews (passed down from Augustine) to carry out this hellish atrocity. I am equipping my children & those I know much better by sharing the Gospel, the Word of God, eternity, etc. with them, while not aetherially ignoring or escaping from the reality of what's going on in the earth even now where we are placed in time. That our response is never like the OT Jewish Zealots of old who took to the arm of the flesh and rose up in violence, but not like the monks who hid in monasteries in caves and never saw the light of day, the realities of the injustices & sins of their society in their day, etc. either. I would not want to be found as the Zealots in spirit (like the sons of thunder) when Christ comes back, but neither would I want to be found as the Essenes either. Hidden up in convents reading the text only and having no saltiness or light for the world around me. Do not misunderstand me to be saying that voting is a Biblical display necessarily of saltiness. Not saying that. But I am saying that necessarily making any activity, decisions, actions, etc. where tremendous sin, wickedness, Justice, etc. are concerned is a decision not to act. The Gospel is preimminenet. But if you think things like Abortion, Child trafficking, Slavery, etc. mean nothing to God or His saints anymore, then you have "spiritualized" Away everything in your Christoplatonism. We can look very spiritual sometimes in this view and quote lots of "verses", but is there really light & salt and truth? Is there really bread from heaven? And is it feeding it to real people here down on the earth? It will get worse. Much worse. I am not a postmillinealist who thinks we will Christianize the earth before Jesus returns. I have an apocalyptic eschatological framework. It's going to keep getting worse gradually & then Christ will return and it will get better! But that doesn't mean we aren't on some levels to "occupy until He comes". What that looks like exactly for each individual is for one to take to the Lord Himself. But the reality of the age to come doesn't change the realness of the reality in this age, & we live in the tension era of one crossing over to the other. Where the kingdom of God is and isn't yet in its final fullness. I hope that makes some sense to somebody? 😊 If we take it all on our shoulders, we will act in the flesh, but if we act as if reality isn't reality, then we are like the German church that "just sang louder" to drown out the reality of the wailing & screaming Jews in the rail cars on the track behind the church on Sunday morning.

Julias writes...........

"It is patently wrong to preach and teach a false security."

Amen to that.............bro Frank

And just FYI to Julius,
I was writing my last post before your last post came up. Just wanted you to know that my post wasn't a direct response to your last post. 😊 I thought your last post was quite good too, by the way. And same here, I have been reading stories from VOM, Open Doors, etc. to my kids since they could read (& some before so).
God Bless,
Jeff

Yep, jeff. We have been shielded in America to a large degree, but our children need full disclosure and so do adults.

This scripture comes to mind:
Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luke 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
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Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Yes, amen & amen

Bro Jeff.............loved your post and agree with it.......bro Frank

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J I have to admit I am a bit puzzled. When I speak of persecution you oppose me violently in this forum. Was it not you who posted that you could not feed your kids a steady diet of persecution? Now you are saying your children have been reading Voice of the Martyrs magazine since they were able to read.

I guess I'm trying to figure out which direction are you coming from?

When I or anyone else speak of the soon return of Christ you argue that most of the prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD.

Just puzzled bro. But at least I am glad you are aware that persecution is a reality and that we are not shielded here in America.

Just my thoughts.

by bearmaster on 2016/8/3 12:19:57

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J I have to admit I am a bit puzzled. When I speak of persecution you oppose me violently in this forum.

WOW! Interesting choice of words. "oppose me violently".

No, as stated before and several times over, (my head is not in the sand), I know about the reality of persecution. My disagreement (which was not violent), was about daily fear mongering with clips from various news sites, everyday...a steady diet of it. And specifically telling people in the forum and by extension in the Internet, what was coming (in detail) when we actually have no idea. But, talking about the reality of persecution, or even news clips about people in America actually being persecuted I have never had a problem with. I have post some of those articles myself.

If I was violent to you, I am sorry, but please show me that post.
We do want to be taken serious, don't we?

Blaine you are overreacting. You said somewhere else that everyone opposes you on the forum over your reports on persecution which is nonsense.

I don't like a steady diet of what someone thinks will happen in the future which is not the same thing as reporting events.

that's a great post Frank, you know the trouble is?

I would LOVE to discourse on everything you wrote, BUT Heaven forbid, I go off the reservation on anything I write, and we in the middle of 100 plus post cyber scrum, a real mess. So there is really no PROFIT in a public discourse on this subject.

Mind you now, I would have no hesitation to have a phone call on this post with YOU......but this is my whole point: its just neither "safe"...nor "profitable".....here, on SI, to have a discussion on the Deep Things of God, without a lot of division.

I don't want that division and mess......just a colossal waste of time, people writing long religious posts in pride to 'prove they are right', complete with numerous cherry picked Scripture, and the CORRECT name of the "doctrine" or "theology", so a person can thump their breast, and identify themselves as an "American evangelical"...with all the 'cultural' buttons to hit, you're white (this isn't directed to you Frank, i'm just writing), you're American, you "Christian", but I bet the (established) "church" would do the same thing to Jesus Messiah.....kill him, that the established religion, "pharisse/saducee den of robbers", did when Messiah came down for his earthly Ministry.

one last thing....."evangelicals" are too squeaky clean....the children of the dark will never quash this Faith, but we simply must pray for wisdom.

go underground, zig when they expect you to zag. start to buy and hide bibles. go black market....flee the cities/suburbs. now.

smile a lot. have no public opinion.

Hi Neil, totally agree with that post. Would love to discuss it with you on the phone, in the phone tag status, right now your "it." :) You might notice that I have not been indulging anyone in theological stances for quite sometime for the reasons you stated and others..............bro Frank

JFW,
Yes, our God appoints and soveriegnly controls a lot of things, but what is often his means to ends? People. Actions. He is still Soveriegn, but that doesn't mean we are necessarily "totally checked out"

JFW,
That's a non-sequitur argument from silence anyways. Can you tell show me where Jesus said specifically "do not vote"? Or "do not speak out on abortion" (& who is president has potential Abortion implications, potentially more in this generation than any prior due to the supremes court and age of the justices). Etc.? No, there's no scriptural substantiation for this whatsoever. I pray. If the Lord leads me to not vote, I don't (which was the case in 2012 honestly). I prayed this time & I think I've shared the dream here already on SI concerning Hillary Clinton. I am not some Trump dumby or super excited about him as president, but I see it as a somewhat unknown & Hillary as clearly bad known (& my dream confirmed & supported that). So, in the absolutizing stance again, I will say voting neither is where your ultimate trust should be, nor are you necessarily "putting all your trust in the kingdom's of this world" because you do vote. I'm sure many told William Wilberforce, Martin Luther King, etc. not to focus on temporal earthly political matters. And I'm sure many have accused William Carey of not focusing on the Gospel in India because he set his heart on abolishing satey (burning widows alive). Many theologians of his day criticized Spurgeon for "being focused on orphanages and not the preaching of the Gospel". Spurgeon of course ignored such criticisms and we don't know those theologians names today do we? And the famous quote of Charles Spurgeon he said " and let the God who answers by orphanages be God". 😉 So such theoretical theological arguments have been made down through the centuries

oh no Frank....I lost your number....can you forgive me for being such a narcissistic self absorbed crummy friend...or is it "brother?"

its in my winny the pooh phonebook, and I CANT FIND THE THING!!!!!!!!

oh bother.

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I'm afraid I have too much of the Anabaptist convictions in me. They identified with Jesus in John 18 when He said my kingdom is not of this world. They saw the kingdom of Jesus as a spiritual reality where Jesus ruled in the hearts of men and women. The Anabaptist brethren would not be involved in the state. Though they obeyed the laws of the state provided those laws would not conflict with the gospel. But these brothers and sisters would not serve in the armed forces or take oaths of allegiance to the state. They took very seriously the words of Jesus in The Sermon on the Mount.

It is at this point I find their simple faith and obedience to Jesus to be very refreshing. The anabaptist example have guided my involvement in politics. Namely that I stay out of politics.

Best to stay focused on Jesus and His kingdom and to stay out of the political Kingdom of man.

Simply my thoughts.

Hi Savannah. I dont believe your question is " straight up." Neil already spoke rather well about how you really cannot have a serious conversation and that for the most part, it should be left for private conversation. So, the original post stands, take it for what it is or leave it. Or, here is a novel idea, write a post of your own or comment on a devotional thread. There are a few on the forum who simply look for controversy and only ever "comment," rather than write their own posts. And that few never take the time to comment on devotionals. This is one of the reasons I dont post that much any more..................bro Frank