(video) "Covenant and Controversy Part One: The Great Rage"

why are the Jews so hated?......1:40 documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0iTHHKqFRs&t=1419s

For those who have not seen this series:

COVENANT AND CONTROVERSY is a series of films produced by Frontier Alliance International.

Throughout centuries, judenhass has found expression in political, religious and social contexts spanning continents and cultures without discernible cause or correlation. The Great Rage is the first installment in this five-part series, which assesses these historical expressions of Jew-hatred and grapples with the modern progression of this international rage in present-day.

Covenant and Controversy is produced by FAI STUDIOS, exploring the history and theology of the enduring controversy over the Jewish people, the Land of Israel, and the city of Jerusalem. The Great Rage features Dalton Thomas, Stephanie Quick, Michael Reynolds, Joel Richardson, Dr. Michael Brown, Dr. Barry Horner, and Scott Volk.

Part 2 trailer is available and soon the second part of the entire film: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/thecityofthegreatking/172282547

Yeah, good stuff. All of the previous people in part 1 will be in part 2 that releases September 1st (I got to film some of it in Jerusalem which was cool since I know nothing of what I am doing). Reggie Kelley will also be in part 2, "The City of the Great King". It will be on Vimeo on Demand for purchase screened for like 1-2 months (to help fund the next in the series) & then available online for all to view for free (like what Ray Comfort does). I Can't more highly recommend it.

thank you Greg!

imagine that

I actually went back & watched the film again. Powerful. Significant. Prophetic. With real world Gospel & Eternal implications. When the future prophesied Israel-centric words come to pass - thee will be important theological implications to have thought out well & taken to the Word & before the Lord. I believe the stance of the heart in either arrogance or humility towards this people will have serious implications. As serious implications as it did during Nazi Germany, or likely exponentially more in scope. And oh yeah, there's that whole scripture thing God laid out in His Word too in serval places, and especially what Paul says in Romans 11 (there is MUCH more in the total context of Romans 11, but let's take a close look at Paul's warning here):

17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Hey TMK,
Quick question first: Did you watch the film? I know before I began to really study the issue & especially the true history of Jewish anti-semitism, I had a compassionate but defensive response. And I totally relegated it to the Roman Catholics (& Muslims) in my mind. Then when I really learned of the theology & statements as early as the "early church fathers" (especially, but not limited to Augustine/Origen), how that trickled down to Luther, Calvin, etc. (they literally quote them more than any other & take it farther), on to the more modern NT Wright, Stephen Sizer, Phillip Maurro's of the world, etc. & see in history exactly how this theology was used/spread & what the end fruits of the true were (not to mention dissecting the just straight up propaganda & lies of movements like Christ at the Checkpoint & so many others locking arms with Muslims against the Jews) this really started to hit home. It's a "heart stance" issue first and foremost. Paul makes that clear. Arrogance or humility? These inward things always eventuality in outward manifestations with implications. Maurro's arrogance caused him to make bombastic statements that we must question the whole NT if Israel was ever formed again (& he died & then it was). Luther's arrogance caused him to write "The Jews & their Lies" & say incredibly amazingly ridiculously hateful & ungodly things. Things Hitler used to carry out the holocaust. And I could go on and on. But what did Corrie Ten Boom's father, Casper, do as a result of his thinking? He hid Jews in his home's walls & lost his life and family doing it. Similarly with Dietreich Bonnheiffer.
Don't take this personally aimed at you, but often When people say, "how does this affect me?" Or "exactly what will you do differently?" It just seems so self-focused, apathetic, & shallow really. Like Abortion. "Well, what will you do differently? You can't change the laws. What difference does it make on my day to day life if I can't change it?" Etc. Etc. the fact is that thoughts/ideas/theologies affect lives/walks/people. I speak out on abortion in every realm and sphere I am given. We must be a people of truth & of principle, & of the scriptures. Arrogance & apathy can be really sneaky to the self of the person operating/walking in & even perpetuating it. Fact is, what would you have done in Germany? If your theology (as was by far the common theology of the day) Replacement Theology/Supercessionism, then you might just see it as God's judgement on those stiff necked Jews (which in some sense it actually could be used by God to awaken them to their Messiah which is a controversial whole other subject that got Art Katz more than a few enemies even in Messainic Believing Circles) & why would you ant to get in God's way with a people He's already forever cursed? Because we are God's people now and have replaced them and there's nothing left for them but God's judgement? Fact is that how you think/believ affects how you speak, teach & act. This is why World Vision (@ the checkpoint) could allow a guy named Mohammed funnel $40,000,000 of donations to Hamas!
So my question before we get into a long thread is two fold:
1.) Did you watch the film? (Barry Horner goes into more specifics on the Protestant church's part outside the film, as does Michael Brown in "Our Hands are stained with blood" as does Joel Richardson in "When a Jew Rules the World" - FYI)
2.) If you lived in Nazi Germany during WW2, what do you think you would have done? If it happened again tomorrow, what would you do?

The first thing any genuine Christian should have done/do is to pray for Israel's salvation through their messiah Jesus .
Everything else is a byproduct.

But so is mine:

Those German youth who closed their blinds where raised in a German society, & yes, even a German Protestant church theological atmosphere where those Jews out there were just receiving God's judgement of their eternal curse & casting off (words Jesus spoke at times specifically to the Pharisees get wrongly applied to the entire Jewish race for all times) at the hands of the Nazi's, & according to the Replacement Theology/ Supercessationists & such, this was good & should be done. So no wonder they closed the blinds. But when you get to the Ten Boom's or Bonnheiffer, they didn't have that theology & their actions also followed suit. Jesus in the Gospel's, in the immediate context discussing False Teachers and False Teaching, said you will recognize a tree by its fruit. What it produces. What fruit has Replacement Theology/Supercessationism produced historically? It's a lot more than just WW2. Naziism wasn't a "one off oddity". The pogroms, the constant persecutions and expulsions & genocides, the infatadas, etc. But what about those who didn't hold to this theology and took God's Word seriously? They hid them in the walls. They reached out to them. They shared the Gospel with them not from a place of replacement arrogance, but of humility, compassion & eager expectation of the fulfillment of these prophecies!
Yes, the best thing we can do is pray for Isael's salvation & preach the Gospel (and/or support that mission) to the Jews. But you won't be able to do this effectively if you are ignorant or in arrogance of the entire history of what people have done to Jews for centuries in Jesus' name, both catholic & Protestant. It's a heart issue first. A theological issue second. Then an orthopraxy (practice & speech) will flow out from there.

And FYI - If you watch the film & decide to purchase it (DVD or Vimeo's special edition - helps funds the future films in the series), the Extras are really good question and answer interviews with Joel Richardson, Micahel Brown, Scott Volk, Barry Horner, Dalton Thomas, etc. Good stuff. Really good stuff.

Some "christians" are willingly ignorant of the Jews and Israel's history and God's eternal and unchanging plan for them.
They have within them an ingrained predisposition (from satan) to hate the Jewish nation. Met many myself and seen them here, And unless God brings repentance and illuminates the heart though his Word nothing gonna change,

I don't disagree there are some like that (I already discerned such & then the Lord even confirmed such by a dream to me), but some are just plain ignorant (in the purest form of the word by definition - "having a lack of knowledge") of this. My heart is that those who are just ignorant of these things and have read & bought the wrong theology of the NT Wright's, Phillip Mauro's, Stephen Sizer's etc. of the world would have an open heart to see the Lord's heart (& Word) on this matter & reject their arrogance & bad theology. My heart, as in all things where we walk in darkness on a matter, is that we all repent and get in line with the heart, Word & Spirit of God on the matter. And my heart is that I stay humble while people still disagree with my position, but hopefully not my disposition. 😊

Todd

My sarcastic self is threatening to kick in so therefore I will just leave some
synonyms for the word hate that can be applied in the attitude towards Jewish people. Unfortunately it includes "christians" as well as the usual suspects.

hatred, loathing, detestation, dislike, distaste, abhorrence, abomination, execration, aversion; hostility, enmity, animosity, antipathy, revulsion, disgust, contempt, odium

The number one reason for this satanic hatred is that the messiah and the Word of God came through them. And God is still in the process of fulfilling his ultimate purpose for them .

If there were no Jews there would be no possible way for the fulfilment of God's promises to them. And no second coming of Jesus. It's not going happen like they think

Thank you Rev for taking the right road & not letting your "sarcastic self kick in". 😉👍
God Bless,
Jeff

Jeff. Your encouragement to Neil to be a little
nicer had a rebound affect on me!

Praise God! 😉👍🙏🏻☝️💪🏻

TMK,
Let me ask you a question: what is worse - "Hate" as you are defining it or "apathy"? Was it "hate" for the German boys to close the blinds? Was it "hate" for the German church to "just sing louder" To drown out the Jews' cries on the train tracks behind the church on Sunday morning? Is it "hate" to realize that 60 Million babies have been and are being murdered in the womb, pulled to pieces & sold on the body part market like pieces of meat?

"Silence in the face of evil, is itself evil". - Dietrech Bonheiffer

Do you believe that? I do. The propaganda campaign around incriminating Israel & exhonerating the Palestinians, including the radical PLO Authority, and just drinking it up (& the replacement theology of these men like Sizer goes hand in hand with their actions) like water is an arrogant neglect that is the propagation of (whether intentional or in naivity/ignorance) "hate" or "evil" or the willful ignorance & apathy is a form of "hate". The whole "apartheid wall" propaganda when the fact is that the only reason there is a wall there is because of the infantada. The fact that the wall is actually 97% fence & 3% wall. The fact that the Islamic attacks from Hamas Islamic terrorists in the "occupied" territory went from about 1,000 a year to 1! And the fact that the reason it's 26 feet high is because that's how high it had to be to stop sniper fire across and outside where the Jews live on the other side. The fact that the whole "worldwide Jewish conspiracy to rule the world" conspiracy is just the old anti-Jewish propaganda repackaged for modern audiences. And the best "proof" some of these people have is the testimonies of people who don't even believe the Bible & think King David was a mythical figure? Really?

Anyways, it would be hate to lie & say that a fetus is just a blob of tissue. In like manner, it would be hate to misrepresent the facts, history & the scriptures concerning Israel & the Jews.

Was it hate for the U.S. leadership to stand by knowing ISIS overran the Middle East & chased Christians, Yazidids & even other Muslims into the mountains, raped, beheaded, tortured & crucified & did nothing? And believe me they knew. Is that hate? Yes. Apathy in the face of atrocity is one of the worst forms of hate

"ISIS" is an American op from start to finish.

the 'al-quida' brand name was slipping in sales, so had to introduce a stronger recipe.

arab spring, isis are all us intel ops, because we do NOT want the Levant STABLE.

that's all can I say, believe me, don't believe me. up to you.

It sounds crazy until you actually research documented facts. It's heartbreaking. But seeing as how we have given Iran's Islamic govt hundreds of millions of dollars when we know they want to wipe Israel off the map - I guess truth is stranger than fiction these days

And oh yeah, Iran said the deal is really no deal (there was no signed document - how is that a deal?) & they want to anhhilate the USA too. Figure that one out

I can't totally disagree with your sentiments there TMK. It may be a slight bit of a semantical issue, but I could definitely see how saying someone "hates Jews" Could limit the entire discussion because they don't recognize hate in themselves so are repulsed at that use of terms and tune out. Agreed. Arrogance however I have no problem stating plainly even if people are sure they aren't arrogant. That's the nature of arrogance anyways (the arrogant rarely see arrogance in themselves), & that's the word most commonly translated in Romans 11. I also think Apathy is a good word to use. I don't have a problem saying that some flat out hate the Jews, as the longer a discussion is dissected, something "surfaces" that is underlying. May be an intense arrogance that conceals itself in pride (& surrounds & defends itself by twisting the Word - or leaning towards the theologians who do twist it) but then when prodded & processed more shows its true nature that there's something behind it. Sometimes people are influenced spiritually more than they realize, like Peter who one minute was "blessed of my father...who has shown this to you" & right afterwards was rebuked with "get behind me satan! You have not in mind the things of God, but the things of man." But I could see how coming on too strong in the verbiage could limit the true processing of the conversation. Good point TMK.

True haters are as sly as satan and as harmlesss as serpents. R T Version

(Especially in the world of religion)

For one thing, don't hide from or ignore the history. The information is out there, & it shapes the backdrop of Jewish thinking and (understandable really, once you really look at it) suspicion from Jews being preached the Gospel to. We should be preaching the Gospel. But if we are willfully ignorant of what has been done to them "in Jesus' name" in history (whether it was true Christians or not - was Luther a "real Christian" - that's debatable I guess and another topic), then how can we have sympathy for where they are & how could we possibly be "loving our neighbor" if we are faster to run to our own defense than to "consider others better than ourselves". And yes, God is no respector of persons & we should preach the Gospe to ALL, because that's the only way ANYONE can be saved, through Jesus. But if you're saying God doesn't keep His promises to Israel as a people (like Romans 11 explains), that's another issue altogether. God is no respector of persons between men and women either. Both have equal value. "There is neither Jew, nor Gentile, male nor female...all are one in Christ." But God still has specific & unique callings for men not afforded to women & vice versa (I ain't having no babies anytime soon! 😊). Men are called to teaching & leadership over the congregation ((ekklesia)). But women are no less important, just differing roles. But no one gets in the kingdom of God (the deposit of it now nor the fullness when Jesus comes) apart from Jesus and Judgement awaits those who unrighteously reject Him. That is what "no respector of persons" speaks to in its full context:

Romans 2
6He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For God shows no partiality (this is the ESV - some other translations say "is no respector of persons". Same essential thing).

Interesting that the Gospel not only goes to the Jew first & is for the Jew first (the natural branch), but this passage is clear that judgement will go to the Jew (who rejects Jesus in unrighteousness) first also. Judgement hasn't happened yet. So God still differentiates in this passage between Jew & Gentile (not in value but role) even at the judgement. How's that possible if Replacement/"Fulfillment" theology says Israel has no distinct calling, purpose, apocalyptic/eschatological role, etc.? It isn't. It's pretty clear.

And the immediate verses before those gives the context of Judgement even better. The verse right before The ones I quoted says "5But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed."

So the clear day of judgement is a reference to the end of all things. And God still deals with the "Jew first & also the Greek/ie gentile"? Hhhmmm

.
Brothers are we making how one views Israel to be the test of one's faith in Jesus? Also where is this hated of the Jews coming from among evangelicals.

As one brother said I must be hanging out in the wrong circles. Not that I hang out in that many evangelical circles. But most of the intercessory prayer calls I have been in have a fervent love for Israel and pray for them much at the exclusion of everything else.

A while back I did some Googling to find out if there were any prayer calls for the persecuted Church. Except for the call I moderate I could not find any other prayer call for the persecuted Church. But I certainly found about a half a dozen pair of calls they were praying for Israel and the Jews.

Two of the biggest intercessory prayer calls in the nation, Capitol Hill Prayer Partners, and Prayer Surge Now, have a particular emphasis on praying for Israel.

Aglow has a prayer call that prays for Israel.

I participate in a monthly 24 hour prayer call hosted by Light if Zion. The number of evangelicals from different backgrounds come on that call and lift up Israel and the Jews.

I rejoice that there are a number of prayer calls that are lifting up the Jews in Israel. I would almost wish that there would be as much fervent prayer for the persecuted church as goes up for Israel. I daresay that Israel does get more prayer than the persecuted church does. At least I know there are a number of prayer calls that are going up for Israel. Only one for the persecuted Church.

This is not to compare Israel against the persecuted church or who needs more prayer. But simply to ask the question where is this anti-semitism that I keep hearing about? Again I must be with hanging out with the wrong crowd.

But before we start labeling evangelicals as being anti-Semitic. I would encourage those that are pro Israel to open up your eyes. Because there are many evangelicals who fervently pray for and love Israel.

Simply my thoughts.

.
Weekly Aglow Prayer Call

Annual Day of Prayer for the Peace of Jerusalem
Prayer Call

Monthly Light of Zion Prayer Call

Weekly Prayer Surge Now Prayer Call

Weekly Capitol Hill Prayer Partners Prayer Call

These are just the larger prayer call ninistries that pray for Israel and the Jews. There are probably other prayer calls that I was not able to come across. They're also countless churches and prayer houses that are praying for Israel.

So respectfully I ask where is this anti-Semitism I keep hearing about among the Evangelical community?

.
Lol. Love the comment about replacing the carpet bro.:)

Got my good chuckle for the day. :-)

Saints,

We have found on the forums that debating this issue of replacement theology, anti-jewish or overly pro-jewish statements do not bear fruit of unity or encourage our walks with the Lord Jesus daily.

Also speculations about political happenings are in the end nothing worth arguing for or even filling our minds with. We need to put on the Lord Jesus Christ and set our minds on things above not things of the earth (Colossians 3:1-3).

As was alluded to we must love our enemies, share the Good News with all people in the world.

This thread is now locked.