New Ben Hur Movie

Brethren:

I was wondering if anyone was planning on seeing the new movie Ben Hur? I have seen the original to many times to count to be honest and it still brings tears to my eyes.

I never go to the theater unless it is a faith based movie and not necessarily anything that comes from Hollywood. This is a Paramount production which is not a Christian company as far as I know.

So when I first heard about this movie as it keeps popping up on the computer I thought, I love this movie and it would be neat to see on a big screen.

However my hopes were dashed when I found out that Morgan Freeman is acting in this movie as I understand that he is a professing atheist.

Should that make a difference? I bring this up because of a recent article in the Christian Post.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/ben-hur-actor-jack-huston-reveals-scene-that-left-lasting-impact-on-him-interview-168050/emaildpfella@comcast.net

I don't watch very many movies at all but keep buying them at the Christian bookstore as they have monthly $5 specials and sell DVD's of Christian movies at Family Christian.

My wife keeps asking me why I keep buying them and never watch them! I do buy one's I have seen and really like, like Facing the Giants, Flywheel, War Room, Fireproof, Courageous and give them away like bible tracts to people I know who are not saved. These particular movies have made an impact on many in my family as well as friends.

Last movie I saw was War Room, we had a wonderful time witnessing and sharing with other believers we never met. It was like being at church to be honest.

I believe if God can use a donkey to speak to the rebellious he can use these movies as well.

Rambling.....

The original Ben Hur is one of my top 5 movies- easy. And if you have never read the book, I highly recommend it. The first part in the book about the Magi is fantastic.

One thing I have learned about movies that have a faith side is that you really cant trust websites like Rotten Tomatoes because critics generally trash them, while the audience ratings are generally much higher.

I am a tad trepidatious about seeing it because I like the original so much. The scene where Jesus gives him a drink of water and then stares down the Roman soldier who told him to stop is so powerful! And I really like how they never show Jesus' face.

The trailers I have seen on TV for the new one seem to focus solely on the action, but my wife was reading about it and there is definitely a faith side to it like the original.

So we will likely go see it. I don't expect the acting and overall quality of the film to be as good as the original (the original won numerous Oscars) but it could be worthwhile.

Thanks Brothers I do appreciate the thoughts on this very much. I will keep in prayer and if I go, I really like for my wife to see a good movie with a good message.

We usually go with a few people and then go out to eat or come home to eat together and discuss the film, likes dislikes, etc..

Thanks for the heads up on those other films Jeff, I am amassing quite a library of Christian films, who knows, one day they might come in handy.

BD

Would you brothers consider the makers of this movie to be "the world"? And if so, wouldn't consuming and enjoying the world's entertainment (/propaganda) be considered "friendship" with it (in general)?

If not, what do you believe "friendship with the world" is/looks like?

I would argue that much of Christendom (especially "watered down Christianity") is made up of "atheistic pagan heathens."

Also, by "makers of this movie" I mean a lot more than the producers/directors. They didn't personally fund this movie did they?

Julius,
On what grounds do you equate "friendship" (philia) with "idolatry" (which is referred to as whoredom/harlotry and adultry in scripture)?

The scripture says that if you wish to be a friend (philos - friendly, a friend, or an associate) of the world you make yourself an enemy of God.

He does call them adulterers for this friendship, but it seems to me to be in the same sense that I would be an adulterer if I was befriending another woman that would rival my wife. I may not have committed adultery with my body yet, but (in this hypothetical) I have done so in my heart already.

Just google: "Mark Burnett Roma Downey New Age"

I found this so far: https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepropheticnews.com/2014/02/07/beware-of-roma-downey-and-mark-burnetts-other-jesus/amp/?

Edit, add this link (which is very well written,
apparently very well researched and supported with many links - I recommend this one): http://www.aaronhill.org/touched-by-a-cult-the-beliefs-of-roma-downey/

quote:

"Would you brothers consider the makers of this movie to be "the world"? And if so, wouldn't consuming and enjoying the world's entertainment (/propaganda) be considered "friendship" with it (in general)?

If not, what do you believe "friendship with the world" is/looks like?"
_____________

The internet that you are using to type in this forum is a worldly system created by pagans. It is used for great evil on a daily basis. Yet you, and me,and many other believers access it daily, seemingly with a clear conscience.

I am mature enough, I hope, to be able to watch a movie on its merits without delving 30 layers deep to find every non-christian or questionable christian who worked on the film. Similarly, I can certainly see the merits of great works of literature regardless of whether the author was a true Christian or not. Jesus apparently had some knowledge of Aesop and his fables.

Forrest,

Thanks for contributing to the discussion on the movie in question. I appreciate your thoughts!

On what grounds do you equate "friendship" (philia) with "idolatry" (which is referred to as whoredom/harlotry and adultry in scripture)?

Just google: "Mark Burnett Roma Downey New Age"

by Lysa on 2016/8/21 5:24:48

On what grounds do you equate "friendship" (philia) with "idolatry" (which is referred to as whoredom/harlotry and adultry in scripture)?

Just google: "Mark Burnett Roma Downey New Age"

here we go again...

Please explain what you are saying, if you would... Thanks.

Forrests,

Thanks for sharing those links I also find them troubling and it will definitely contribute to whether I see the movie or not. As I stated in the OP, I have a check regarding Morgan Freeman being an atheist.

As to your question regarding friendship of the world I believe it has to do with those things we absolutely love, not just partaking of, as Todd answered so well. Many of us have computers, cell phones, shop in grocery stores that sell liquor and pagan magazines, eat in restaurants that sell liquor, shop in department stores that support planned parenthood or the like, etc.

I am not minimizing in any way your very valid question as it is something I ponder on a daily basis as we all should be doing. As for Hollywood and the movies they produce I have no desire whatsoever to see or watch.

Other Christian films and companies for me are another story. I have not decided to see the new Ben Hur but will look forward to input from people who might.

I never saw the movie the Passion of the Christ but know people who did. I had my reasons and do not feel condemned that I didn't nor do I condemn those who did.

Savanah posted the link to another new movie by Ray Comfort, The Atheist Delusion, of which I will most likely get before it is released and will end up buying a bunch and passing them out as tracts.

I will say that some time ago this question came into my spirit, "Can anything good come out of Babylon?"

I see Hollywood as a modern day Babylon without a doubt or question. Yet in Gods sovereinty it appears Christ is still being preached.

My wife (who is not yet manifested saved)told me this morning a couple things that took place in the Olympics they showed on the news. Four Americans after winning a relay race gathered together in a circle and prayed to Jesus and the camera did not pull away.

Secondly, another athlete who won a God medal for something and happened to be from Brazil had a bandana wrapped around his head that she asked me to guess what it said, It said "100% Jesus".

For me these things only speak to the choir of those who are already saved, but what I am happy about is that my wife takes note every time of things like this and God is wooing her unto Himself.

So the question is, can or will God use the new Ben Hur movie, to draw people to Himself? If God can save and heal people who are presently sitting under false shepherds and heretics IN SPITE of the error they teach/preach is He not able to do the same here?

As I get older the box I once put God in has gotten much bigger over time to the point of just removing the box altogether.

The two links you posted re: Roma Downy and her husband, and Della Reese is only something I can take at face value as I know zero about the stuff reported.

But two things stood out: One is at the beginning of this individuals report in uncovering the motive/spirit behind these people he made the statement that he was not disappointed. Meaning he was happy he was able to prove these folks are new agers and preaching another Jesus.

I don't know about anyone else but I find no pleasure or satisfaction in proving one is a heretic or deceiver and it grieves me for both them and the sheep.

The other thing was one of the articles gave RD resume of beliefs, beliefs I do not share in or endorse in any way.

But I feel the same way about the Apostle Pauls resume of beliefs pre conversion or any one of us for that matter.

As one who has been delivered out of this world and the RCC, I just cannot limit God in what or who He may choose to use to draw people to Himself and ultimately save.

I am more aware now in separating people (flesh & Blood) from the spirit behind the people (principalaties, powers, spiritual wickedness, etc.)

I just cannot be cynical, condemning, or Pharisaical in dealing with such matters for this reason:

2 Timothy 2:24-26 KJV And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, (25) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (26) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

As one who was on the opposite end of this portion of scripture and was attacked by a brood of Pharisees it nearly destroyed me and took my life. These Pharisees were my closest friends and relatives, ones who we took sweet counsel of the Lord from and walked hand in hand into the house of the Lord.

Just sharing some thoughts as I pondered your question.

BD

by Lysa
here we go again...

by forrests
Please explain what you are saying, if you would... Thanks.

It's seems that only one person has actually sat in a movie theater and watched Ben Hur and has an actual opinion of the movie.

Thanks for the review bear! I'll go see it and chime in as well after I do.

Quote: "I never saw the movie the Passion of the Christ but know people who did. I had my reasons and do not feel condemned that I didn't nor do I condemn those who did."

I saw it twice but will never watch it again, and I own it. I have concluded the violence is almost obscene, even if it is realistic.

I will never forget when I saw it in the theater- a bunch of church people were there. There was an boy, about age 8, sitting right next to us. During the scourging scene he was sobbing- not because of the spiritual aspect but because it was horrifying. His mother should have taken him out but she did not- he sobbed the rest of the movie.

I guess I am glad the Passion was made, but I can't watch it again.

Ephesians 5

1Be therefore imitators of God, as beloved children. 2And walk in love, even as Christ also loved us, and gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling fragrance.
3But sexual immorality, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be mentioned among you, as becomes saints; 4nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not appropriate; but rather giving of thanks. 5Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God.

6Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, 9for the fruit of the light is in all goodness and righteousness and truth, 10proving what is well pleasing to the Lord. 11Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even reprove them. 12For the things which are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of. 13But all things, when they are reproved, are revealed by the light, for everything that reveals is light.

There is a Great Gulf fixed between Hollywood and Holyblood!

by bearmaster
I guess that would be me sister. Guilty as charged. I saw the movie this morning and enjoyed it. However as I said by way of disclaimer one should not go to this movie expecting to see a Christian Kendrick brother type of production.

I was not condemning you for seeing the movie, no way! I plan on seeing it myself. I was pointing out that there were many voices on this thread with an opinion about everything else BUT the movie and only one person (you) had actually ventured to go see it!! Nothing bad about you!

God bless you,
Lisa

I find that examining the beliefs and theology of the makers of a movie are imminently "on topic" when discussing a move.

Too often, because of a personal bias, some will revert to attacking the messenger rather than deal with the topic at hand hoping by doing that they are successful in discrediting the topic.

Do you mean like God does through His word and His prophets and apostles?

"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!...For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame””who set their mind on earthly things."
~ Phillipians 3:2, 18-19

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God[fn] and our Lord Jesus Christ....Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries....But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves....Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever...These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage....These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit."
~ Jude (Various verses)

I am sure you are aware that I could go on and on and on…

TMK, I'm sort of with you on the Passion. I own it and don't know that I'll ever watch it again. I watched in the theater with my brother (who is not a Christian) with me. He was as nervous as a housecat in a room full of rocking chairs. He kept wiping at his mouth. He fidgeted. He wouldn't say much about it later. Whether it was conviction or horror, I cannot say for sure but it seemed like the former to me. More than anything I saw in the movie, as memorable as it was, I was focused more on his reactions.

I think the Passion was overall a good movie, tried to be true to what likely happened on Calvary. The licenses it took with some things weren't helpful, IMO. But, as far as "Christian movies" go, I think it may be the reigning champion in terms of communicating the crux of the gospel as much as any film can.

As I sit here, though, I can't honestly say I plan to ever see it again.

Hi Forrest-

Just so I understand where you are coming from, would you ever read a book- particularly a classic- where the author is not an evangelical Christian?

How about a news article by a non Christian. Or a sporting event where the announcers and all the players are not Christians? Or music that is not written or performed by Christians?

It is not my intention to pick on you in any way. It will just help to clarify what you are saying.

No one here is stating that Christians should watch filthy movies or read filthy books. The issue is those movies and books that are not filthy but are not produced by Christians.

Jesus replied:"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there is any virtue, and if there is any praise, think on these things.

by TMK on 2016/8/22 9:00:26

Hi Forrest-

Just so I understand where you are coming from, would you ever read a book- particularly a classic- where the author is not an evangelical Christian?

How about a news article by a non Christian. Or a sporting event where the announcers and all the players are not Christians? Or music that is not written or performed by Christians?

It is not my intention to pick on you in any way. It will just help to clarify what you are saying.

No one here is stating that Christians should watch filthy movies or read filthy books. The issue is those movies and books that are not filthy but are not produced by Christians.

I will attempt to honestly answer your questions, but first a little discerning distinctions if I may...

There is a difference between consuming things done by non-believers for a purpose - such as information from news outlets - and to consume their art and entertainment. One is for utility and the other for pleasure. The issue is taking pleasure in the vain amusements of the world - which often convey the mind and philosophy of it (either directly or indirectly). This is especially true in art and literature.

So the issue raised earlier with the internet...do I use it to serve a purpose that is aimed at the glory of God - or do I love the culture of it and take pleasure in that which God is opposed to (and hates)?

That is the difference. To use a thing the world makes (such as a car) is different than 'loving/befriending the world' by assuming it's desires, entertainment and practices (such as the culture of car restoration and collections of cars and obsessing over cars).

Or to read a news article or watch a non-fiction documentary that worldlings create in order to obtain knowledge (albeit while exercising discernment the whole time and weighing everything by the word of God) is different than consuming (and enjoying) a television show, movie, or other vain amusement that the world produces which promotes things God hates and denigrates things which He calls holy and pure and good.

When we wade into movies and series' that are some blend of entertainment and supposed gospel message or biblical history (such as "A.D., the Bible Continues" or "Ben-Hur") it gets even more dangerous and not less: as these movies (really most of the worlds entertainment - if not all of it) are really propaganda and intended to instruct and teach a philosophy/mythology/doctrine/worldview of some sort...and the beliefs and theology of the producers of such media need to be scrutinized for this reason.

They (the purveyors of the entertainment media) are very cognizant of the usefulness of media as a propaganda tool. The very fact that many say "it's only entertainment" is the issue. We "let our guard down" and let a lot of things into our hearts and minds through the back door without ever requiring them to pass the bar of our discernment and reason first.

We swallow a lot of "teaching" that we would otherwise reject because we don't believe that we are being instructed. It bypasses our logic and reason and is sown into our hearts under the guise of entertainment...

Now with all of that in mind, let me try to answer your questions:

...would you ever read a book- particularly a classic- where the author is not an evangelical Christian?

Would I ever? Perhaps; but not for my enjoyment and amusement and it's not high on my priorities. The only foreseeable reason would be to preview it if the public schools were requiring one of my step-daughters to read it...so my wife and I could know how to handle it.

And when you say "non-evangelical" I am thinking unbelieving. If it were a Roman Catholic, a mystic of some sort, a Gnostic, or some other occultist and the subject matter were (either directly or indirectly through allegory, etc.) religion/philosophy, etc., then I would be much less likely to pick it up at all (except for research purposes, not for amusement or personal enlightenment).

How about a news article by a non Christian.

I think I answered this before, but I will touch on it again. The answer is yes, I do read news articles by unbelievers, of course I do. But I do not find this a fair comparison to consuming a two hour "play" as amusement/entertainment. The former is for information and the latter is for amusement. The former will be with consumed for a few minutes and using all biblical discernment; the latter for hours and likely bypassing scrutiny (as it is "just a movie" and "fiction" anyhow).

It is the same as the difference between owning a car and collecting them, or wearing clothes or submersing oneself in fashion. The same can be said about the next question.

Or a sporting event where the announcers and all the players are not Christians?

Short answer: I have no intention to ever attend a sporting event - nor to have my sons in sports on an advanced level. Perhaps a bit as a boy for fun, but when he becomes a young man I will expect him to 'put away childish things' and pursue love, righteousness, peace, gentleness, godliness, patience, and holiness... (Rom 9:30; Rom 14:19; 1Co 14:1; 1Th 5:15; 1Ti 6:11; 2Ti 2:22; Heb 12:14)

I do not watch sports on TV or in person, and neither does my family.

Or music that is not written or performed by Christians?

No. I do not take pleasure in worldly music (this includes contemporary "Christian" music) - and why would I? Not only would this would be "friendship with the world" in my estimation, but "what fellowship has light with darkness"? What does this world (system) have to offer that I should take pleasure in?

I add "system" there parenthetically because I can imagine someone asking about food prepared and served by unbelievers at a restaurant owned by ungodly people..."do you take pleasure in a burger made by unbelievers?"...so I add "system" to help clarify what "world" refers to. It doesn't mean everything made by unregenerate people, but things inspired by an anti-christ world and aimed at advancing it's agenda (which is partially accomplished by distraction and turning the affections and loyalty of many from Christ to it, even through entertainment and the like).

This world is at open war against God and His Anointed and it loves what God hates and hates what He loves. By nature it is the antithesis of Christ and all that He wills. This is why friendship with it is considered enmity with God.

The issue is those movies and books that are not filthy but are not produced by Christians.

I strongly disagree with the above statement and I believe I can prove from the word of God that God also disagrees with it. Any movie that flows from the hearts and minds of heretics and Christ-haters (and those sympathetic of and friendly with the Christ-hating world system), and assumes to represent the word and truth and will of God -can only be seen as filthy and defiled and toxic and potentially fatal.

Does this help you to understand my position a bit more?

I know I will likely be criticized and mocked (in a "Christian" way) or ignored and thought of as fanatic or legalistic or immature or harsh or whatever, but as Leonard Ravenhill once said - "I don't think Jesus is going to tell me I took the gospel too seriously when I stand before Him."

Say what you will (or think it, for those of you who would never dare to say it) - I belong to Jesus. I am not my own - I was bought with a price, and I seek to glorify God with my body. And me and my house will serve the LORD - with all of our heart, and all of our mind and all of our strength.

If my children grow up and choose to apostatize to the other side and join up with the enemy later on in life (God forbid); as I am sure some believe I am provoking them to do by exasperating them or something; that is a decision they will make on their own, but at least I will have done all I can do to show them clearly who the enemy is and they will make an informed decision and my hands will be free from even their blood.

http://www.hymntime.com/tch/htm/i/h/a/ihavedef.htm

Thanks Forrest for answering and I do appreciate your candor.

I at least partially agree on most of your points.

My main disagreement is that I think a well rounded person must be somewhat educated about the way the world works. Jesus said to be wise as serpents yet innocent as doves.

When I read a book by Charles Dickens or Ernest Hemingway I do not do so as a religious exercise. I read it to see how others, even non Christians (in hemingways case, anyway) view the world. There are many things I have never nor will ever experience because I am a Christian. But millions of other people HAVE experienced them.

For example, I have never experienced the horrors of war. But I think it is important to know what those horrors are. Books, and of course movies, like Saving Private Ryan, can open that experience up to me.

So I think our basic disagreement is that you place less emphasis on the importance of a wider avenue of learning about the human experience than I do- and that's okay. I certainly have read through the Bible many times and have read and listened extensively to Christian books, sermons and teachings.

But I cannot learn about being on the sea from those- I must look to Moby Dick. And I cannot learn about a war experience from those, I must look to For Whom the Bell Tolls or All Quiet on the Western Front.

A mature Christian, and I do stress mature, should be able to read a classic novel without being corrupted.

I am not saying you are not mature- please don't misunderstand me. You have made a choice about avoiding certain forms of entertainment and no one has the right to talk you out of your convictions.

But other Christians allow for certain forms of "entertainment" and it is not necessarily a sin for them to do so.

My main disagreement is that I think a well rounded person must be somewhat educated about the way the world works. Jesus said to be wise as serpents yet innocent as doves.

I agree that it wisdom is commanded - but I find that most of what I truly understand about fallen humanity (the way the world works) I learned from Christ revealing and correcting it in me. I know how the carnal mind works (to some degree) because I have waged war with it in myself. I know godlessness because I once was and I encounter many who still are on a daily basis. I understand the wickedness of man, because God shows me the wickedness of my own heart (in spite of grace and light from Him)...

I started reading Plato a couple years back, "Republic", to do just what you say...and I didn't find it nearly as beneficial and instrumental to that end as the works of T. Austin-Sparks or William Gurnall or John Wesley or the Ante-Nicean "fathers" or (of course) the Bible as illuminated by the Spirit of God... As I see Him more clearly, I see myself and this world more clearly (in His light/ in light of Him).

Isaiah 53:2-7 (as far as I have gotten in memorizing Isaiah 53 lately) has revealed a lot about me and mankind in general by showing me Christ in a more intimate and in-depth way...

I am not saying that reading "Moby Dick" is sin per se (I don't know what is in it, it may be) - but I am saying that consuming entertainment that supposedly has a "gospel" theme that is created by heretics and Christ-haters and unregenerate rebels against God is very dangerous and foolish (in my eyes).

Add to that the glowing praise it has received from outright heretics (Rick Warren and Joel Osteen, to name a couple; one who is deep into new-age/NWO thinking and the other...I don't even know where to begin), also raises a HUGE RED FLAG in my mind.

I just caution the brethren against allowing "liberty" to become a stumbling stone (to yourself or others) by 'giving place to the devil' to try to skew how you view God, Jesus, sin, the world, holiness, purity, truth, etc...all under the guise of "getting well-rounded" - when in truth they just want to consume the entertainment and since Hollywood now panders to this largely un-tapped market that would otherwise never give it a dollar if it didn't make "Christian" movies that are "okay to watch because they are 'Christian'" (similar to music)...

Let us beware lest our own carnal minds would gain the advantage over us by convincing us that sin is not sin and God doesn't really mean what He says and He isn't that serious...and we can recline and rest and let our hair down and stop being so cautious...a little worldly entertainment won't hurt (Hey, it's Christian!)...

We are in a battlefield until Christ calls us home or returns and puts an end to the war...let us not forget that.

"No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier."
~ 2 Timothy 2:4

A mature Christian, and I do stress mature, should be able to read a classic novel without being corrupted.

Brethren, this is a true statement. Nothing coming in from the outer world has power to defile the inner reality we have in Christ, but instead we understand that true defilement comes from the inside of the heart and works its way outward from an already-corrupted source. This is why Paul could eat meat sacrificed to demons with a clear conscience and give thanks to God for the meal. However, even though to the pure all things are pure, we know that some do not yet have this liberty. For those brethren who are the weaker, the stronger must likewise become weak in their company as to not stumble them. Otherwise, the boast of their liberty will actually nullify the grace they had and transform the actions of their freedom into sin. Because the motive is now coming from a corrupted source.

Nothing coming in from the outer world has power to defile the inner reality we have in Christ, but instead we understand that true defilement comes from the inside of the heart and works its way outward from an already-corrupted source.

I agree. And disagree. Physical things don't corrupt. This is true. But deception and error does:

"For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted””you may well put up with it!
~ 2 Corinthians 11:2-4

"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?"
~ Galatians 3:1

Movies, in and of themselves, don't corrupt you, sure; but there is a corrupting of the mind that can take place through deception and this can corrupt and lead astray. Scripture is clear on this.

And there seems to be a point that Paul foresees that liberty can become a stumbling block to the strong as well as the weak, as he seems to circle back to the issue of idolatry and warns the Corinthians (seemingly the strong ones with knowledge and liberty) about idolatry and having fellowship with demons. It seems to me that he foresaw that those who had liberty to eat the meat sacrificed to idols (knowing an idol is nothing) may become sympathetic to other practices of the idol worship and eventually fall into idolatry (/have fellowship with demons) as the result:

"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

"Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. I speak as to wise men; judge for yourselves what I say. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.

"Observe Israel after the flesh: Are not those who eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything? Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons. Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?"
~ 1 Corinthians 10:12-22

There is a danger in error and deception which comes from without (and appeals to something already within) and there is ever the caution to those 'who think they stand' (in maturity and knowledge) that they can too fall into sin in spite of it...

Forrest wrote:

"I started reading Plato a couple years back, "Republic", to do just what you say...and I didn't find it nearly as beneficial and instrumental to that end as the works of T. Austin-Sparks or William Gurnall or John Wesley or the Ante-Nicean "fathers" or (of course) the Bible as illuminated by the Spirit of God... As I see Him more clearly, I see myself and this world more clearly (in His light/ in light of Him)."

Plus it is extremely boring, IMO of course!

Paul- nice to see a post from you- it's been a while!

Plus it is extremely boring, IMO of course!

I can give that a hearty "Amen!"

Physical things don't corrupt. This is true. But deception and error does

The young believer, in weakness and double-mindedness, has to willfully allow the influence to penetrate the inner man, and then acquiesce to the lie against the knowledge of the conscience. Immature believers do not yet know by revelatory impact of their unassailable positions in the risen Son of God, and thus are in danger of every whim carried by the wind. Their minds are impressionable, and once a stronghold forms in the mind they can wander from the simplicity of the gospel. They can then be instructed to touch not, taste not, look not, etc. so a preacher can glory in the controlling of their flesh.

Mature believers, however, must take a double-heed to not only guard themselves from things which can defile their consciences and work contrary to their faith, but also to guard their allowances before their younger and more impressionable brothers and sisters who are still in the early stages of discovering their identities in Christ.

Watched "War Room" with my family over the weekend...found it very inspiring and encouraging. It asked the question of all of us...where are you fighting your battles? and...are we praying enough?

Other than the explicit sex scenes etc in wordly movies...any movie can have lessons in, even for the Christian, and also it has led to discussions with my children regarding false teaching promalgated by these worldly producers etc.
As Paul said, to the pure all things are pure...or can be made pure.
At the same time I would caution all of us to rather stay away when we can clearly see the movie will be promoting an evil agenda or explixit nudity and extra marital affairs etc etc.

One also cannot allow the liberty they enjoy to become an "occasion to the flesh."

With this knowledge of liberty comes an amazing peace, and a tremendous gratitude toward God (not to indulge carte blanche in lasciviousness as those who do not understand this freedom automatically assume) for one's freedom from the law of sin and death. But we have been set free from sin and death to NOT be put under another law of dress codes, eating, drinking, hair length, cinema attendance, dancing, etc. The Holy Spirit guides the individual in all these areas, starting through men (teachers, pastors, deacons) who should be properly weaned themselves from the touch not, taste not, dress not, watch not laws of religious codes and ordinances. Unfortunately, this is not usually the case.

When I counsel a new believer I tell them they can watch whatever they want (gasp!), but to be conscious of what has been revealed in scripture and to be particularly sensitive to God as they approach it. I will not usurp the Holy Spirit; I want to direct the new believer to Him. I will ask them to examine themselves in light of scripture and discover the will of God on their own. If they are truly born again, all the ephemeral things will gradually unravel with God regarding how they should dress, eat, dance, if they can go to the movies, listen to non-Christian music, etc. And when they hear it for themselves directly from the Source, the matter will be settled with peace, joy, rest and blessed finality.

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Probably written through the haze of fine cigar smoke.

You see, smoking a cigar was not a vanity to Spurgeon. Going to a play was, in his opinion. I think he was partially wrong. Going to a play COULD be wrong, depending on the play or the motive. He didn't go to plays (probably) so it was easy for him to pick on plays and condemn those who did, comparing them to pigs chewing on garbage. Seems pretty ridiculous to me, and I'm a pretty big fan of Spurgeon.

It is hard to imagine a world without Shakespeare. To suggest that seeing or reading "Hamlet" is somehow vanity or sin is preposterous.

Comment deleted.

It's scary how lightly and readily we dismiss anything we disagree with in Christendom these days - even when it comes from one that we would otherwise count as very wise and anointed of the Lord...

Seems proud to me not to ponder the possibility that we may see a bit more dimly than our brother in this area - and pray to God to truly reveal the truth to us by His Spirit (and to spare us from hearing from our own heart and supposing it to be Him due to our eager desire to hear Him say what we already believe).

Spurgeon's private library had over 12,000 books. He was a voracious reader. Do you think all of those books were commentaries?

by TMK on 2016/8/23 9:06:53

Spurgeon's private library had over 12,000 books. He was a voracious reader. Do you think all of those books were commentaries?

While I do not know this to be a fact, but even if is true - it may have been largely literature written by Christians expounding on Truth and scripture.

And in either case, as with the cigar shot, the issue at hand is "Vanity" and "Worldly Amusements"...not cigars...not books...but those things which through vain entertainment draw us away in our thoughts.

All the (inaccurate and unwarranted) claims of "legalism!" are to be expected...I knew they would come.

It is frightening that Christians are so wise and have so much knowledge that many no longer fear God or walk soberly (in terms of thought and deed and how we spen our time).

It reminds me of a certain Tree...that promised a certain state of being through knowledge (of good and evil)...

"We are so full, we are so rich, we are so wise in Christ, we are so strong!" Says today's "knowing" Christian. He has knowledge, and lots of it. But I am afraid he is (in many cases, and myself included) comparatively wretched, poor, miserable, blind and naked.

We lack reverence, we lack the fear of God, we lack godliness and holiness and zeal. We often lack love for Christ and for His sheep, as well as for the lost. We have words, and doctrines, and knowledge - but I wonder how much of the Living Truth we actually have in us shining through us and seen in our desires, temperaments, words and how we live our lives...

This is Christ in you. Walking as He walked by living through Him and Him living through you - not a mere understanding of the biblical doctrine of it, an actual experience of it.

But we he knowledge from the scriptures and books and we think we have life in it...

Call me a cultist, a babe, weak, immature, a legalist. By God's grace, I can take it. I expect it by now.

Don't forget, we serve the same God of the OT - and the God of Jesus who says we will give an account for every idle word and for every deed done in the body...

We are commanded to run the race, and to lay aside every weight...

To pursue the things that edify one another. To pursue love, peace with all men, and holiness. To pursue what is good for ourselves and for all. To pursue faith, love patience, and gentleness.

Pursue:
I. to make to run or flee, put to flight, drive away
II. to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
a) to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal
b) to pursue (in a hostile manner)

III. in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
a) to persecute
b) to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something

IV. without the idea of hostility, to run after, follow after: someone

V. metaph., to pursue
a) to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1377&t=NKJV

The point is what is in our heart? What is our drive and desire? Where is our joy and pleasure? It it in the presence and service of God through Christ or is it in having our minds and affections drawn away from Him through the vain amusement of worldly entertainment (even under the guise of enrichment and under the banner of "maturity" and "knowledge").

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Sorry, Julius, but I had to share one last comment on the side discussion we had here. It says it very well, and it is what I am afraid is going on with many who name the Name of Christ today:

"We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated."

~ D.A. Carson;
in "For the Love of God"

by PaulWest on 2016/8/22 20:24:47

For a mature believer who knows the truth of his/her centrality in Christ, being known and hidden in God before the creation of the world, nothing can assail that rock. Not any movie, or book, or song. They can eat meat sacrificed to idols with a pure conscience; they can eat and drink and dance with their wives and husbands and enjoy life and give thanks to God.

The young believer, in weakness and double-mindedness, has to willfully allow the influence to penetrate the inner man, and then acquiesce to the lie against the knowledge of the conscience. Immature believers do not yet know by revelatory impact of their unassailable positions in the risen Son of God, and thus are in danger of every whim carried by the wind. Their minds are impressionable, and once a stronghold forms in the mind they can wander from the simplicity of the gospel. They can then be instructed to touch not, taste not, look not, etc. so a preacher can glory in the controlling of their flesh.

Mature believers, however, must take a double-heed to not only guard themselves from things which can defile their consciences and work contrary to their faith, but also to guard their allowances before their younger and more impressionable brothers and sisters who are still in the early stages of discovering their identities in Christ.

I disagree. I agree more with the following statement by C. H. Spurgeon:

"We may feel, in our own souls, that we have experience, now, and shall never again be intoxicated by the world's draughts, never more be deceived by its lies. But no sooner does Madam Bubble show her face than her strange fascinations draw our eyes! Let the world ring the bell and straightway we start up and our heart wanders, too often before we are aware of it! We know they are vain things”” know it thoroughly””but yet, knowing it, we do not in our own nature therefore avoid them!

"Reckless of the snares, the birds are foolish enough to fly into them! Though we know that the draught is poisoned, yet is it so sweet that unless prevented by God's Grace, you and I would soon be drunk with it! Every child of God knows that he is a fool or he is a great fool, indeed, if he does not know it! Every heir of Heaven understands that there is within himself a very sink of vanities””his vicious tastes respond to the vile compounds of earth as "deep calls unto deep." "
(From "Vanity Deprecated")

by Paul Weston 2016/8/23 10:01:42
Precisely. This is where the conscience comes into play. What may be permissible by one brother's conscience (going to the cinema), may not be allowed by another's. Everyone is at a different place in their walks with Christ. What is permitted by the conscience for one may not be permitted for another. Legalism is merely the legislation of one fleshly standard for all, regardless of whether each individuals' conscience permits it or not. Cults particularly revel in it. The JW's teach for example that blood transfusions are wrong for all, regardless of the individual conscience. And some fundamental Christian organizations have a strict dress codes for their women, legislated down from the executive level of the denomination and expected to be followed by all. It is no longer a matter of one's individual conscience and enlightenment in Christ, but a legislative group-control of the flesh. I don't believe this is the will of God for spiritual life under the New Covenant.

With this knowledge of liberty comes an amazing peace, and a tremendous gratitude toward God (not to indulge carte blanche in lasciviousness as those who do not understand this freedom automatically assume) for one's freedom from the law of sin and death. But we have been set free from sin and death to NOT be put under another law of dress codes, eating, drinking, hair length, cinema attendance, dancing, etc. The Holy Spirit guides the individual in all these areas, starting through men (teachers, pastors, deacons) who should be properly weaned themselves from the touch not, taste not, dress not, watch not laws of religious codes and ordinances. Unfortunately, this is not usually the case.

When I counsel a new believer I tell them they can watch whatever they want (gasp!), but to be conscious of what has been revealed in scripture and to be particularly sensitive to God as they approach it. I will not usurp the Holy Spirit; I want to direct the new believer to Him. I will ask them to examine themselves in light of scripture and discover the will of God on their own. If they are truly born again, all the ephemeral things will gradually unravel with God regarding how they should dress, eat, dance, if they can go to the movies, listen to non-Christian music, etc. And when they hear it for themselves directly from the Source, the matter will be settled with peace, joy, rest and blessed finality.

Thank you for this! God bless you!

Brothers,

I am on the road traveling for work this week as much as I do not like being away from my beloved wife. I really enjoy my time with the Lord. No TV, no distractions just Him and I.

I am popping in and wanted to thank each and every thought, response, heart, conviction, I really mean that. I don't ever want to post a question or topic that would ever give foothold to the devil, our only true adversary to cause one another to stumble, or to cause strife, division, or disunity in our Lords body.

The word tells us there is safety in a multitude of counselors. So thanks for all your input, I do not disagree with the two positions that have been formed here, whether to go or not go.

My confidence is truly in the Holy Spirit and He is always my go to Person before I pose a question to the body. I originally stated that I was apprehensive in going to see this movie because of one of the actors who professes to be an atheist.

The purpose of going to the movie is not to be entertained because if I lived this life unto myself I would be content on the isle of Patmos, just me and the Lord. But, I have a wife, family, friends, who are not saved.

If I go to a movie which I have stated I prefer a Christian based, produced movie, it has never once been for myself but to go with a loved one, a brother in Christ, my wife, etc.

I am not struggling or wrestling with whether to go or not, if I go, there will be a purpose, if not, I am content.

Guys, the Lord is doing a marvelous work in my wife, she is mostly German so you know what that means, stubborn and hard headed. God is using things in this world in His mercy to draw my wife.

So it is for her benefit, if there be any, that I would go if I believed in my spirit she could take away just a glimpse of Jesus. My wife is not blind, she sees, and knows the life a live and I know she needs nothing beside that for God is able, willing, and capable of saving her however He sees fit. He already promised me, that He will save her. It cannot not happen, so by faith, this is where she remains until He manifests it physically.

I had to say what I have said for this reason, I have been leaning toward not going based on the input here and I have been at rest.

However, my boss, whom I have been witnessing to for some years now, whom the Lord is also drawing in a very miraculous way asked me the other day if I had gone to see the movie which I replied no. He began to ask me all kinds of spiritual questions and we went into deep discussion about Jesus, healing, forgiveness, love....

And I was reminded of this portion of scripture:

1 Corinthians 9:19-23 KJV (19) For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. (20) And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (21) To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. (22) To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. (23) And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

My only motivation in life is to win souls for he who winneth souls is wise. This world has nothing left for me but people, my affection for it and its vices have been far removed.

If the Lord leads me to go, it will not be for me, but for others, even just one soul. If I can come down to a level that they can relate to and that won't cause me to sin, I want to be willing.

Please don't ask me if I would go out drinking, or smoke a joint, or go to a den of iniquity that degrades and abuses women to win souls because the answer is no, I have my limits as we all do.

Thanks again Saints, one on one, I have no argument with any position posted, I really respect how God is leading you because you are HIS workmanship, not mine or anyone elses, to say otherwise? Well, you get the picture.

BD

Hey David,

That was beautiful, my brother. I sense the tenderness of the Spirit in your post and sincerely appreciate that.

I will agree with your prayers and God's promise concerning your wife and ALL your household! I hope I will still be here to hear the testimonies!! :)

God bless,

David,
Amen, and I'm sorry if I came across harsh. I am speaking of one occupying their time with vain amusements, not one such as yourself - using these things as a tool to build bridges and in-roads, and to open the door of ministry with a loved one. I apologize if I have caused an offense.

The thing is, I (we) have a brother in the Lord who is in a similar situation. He loves Jesus and His Word, but his wife...apparently not so much. He isn't even able to talk to her about Him and it for more than a minute (maybe two, at most) before the door is shut.

Well, this brother was watching the "A.D." series with her, as a tool and a way to open the door and seek to minister Christ to her. Well, another brother gave him a hard time about that and really kind of "beat him up" about it without taking the time to find out his motives (I am convicted as I write this) and really gave him a hard time. It is really awful when we suffer (unrighteously and unjustly) at the hands of brothers (when we are sincerely and humbly walking in love).

I apologize for whatever measure of this I may have caused you. I do not condemn the use of things as a tool (so long as it follows Jesus' and His apostles' example and accords with the revealed truth of God) - I was discouraging the filling of ones longings and desires with this world rather than with Christ.

God bless you and His Spirit go with you if you do so choose to see the movie. And please receive my sincerest apology and deepest gratitude for your gracious words, Christian love and maturity, and wisdom in your post.

Your (ashamed and regretful) brother,

Forrest.

Good stuff brother David!

Tha is for sharing:)

My Dearest Brothers In The Lord,

You guys have really caught me by surprise today and have blessed me beyond words, I mean that with all my heart. I am deeply humbled and broken at Gods goodness as I am struggling physically with some pain, stress, and being a bit overwhelmed and the Lord has graciously been working out the most minute details with my job and duties.

My day since early this morning has been so blessed, before I turned in last night I received an email from Jon Butterfield and I was so thankful that he reached out to me as I have been praying for him. I was dog tired last night and was going to just offer a short reply and let him know I was going to pray about the many thoughts and questions he shared but the Lord gave me more to say than I had thought. As I read his testimony I prayed and asked the Lord to speak only His words to Jon and I was so grateful.

I then laid down and prayed myself to sleep pondering the many thoughts that are on Jon's heart and mind. I woke early, and again the Lord had more to say to Jon. Brothers, like most times when I write or post I do not necessarily go back and read my own writing so I cannot remember all the things I shared with Jon, only his questions and concerns.

After that I had some work to do before going on the road and just before I left I checked in to see what the brethren were up to and I checked several threads and decided to post to the BH thread. I was not looking for any response in return and to be truthful it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable kind of like getting my feet washed. I won't hesitate to wash others but it is a bit humbling to have mine washed.

But after such a blessed day and God taking away the pain and showing me such favor, He wasn't done with me, and I come back to my hotel room to read your edifying responses and words! I am sitting here in tears thinking, who am I that the Lord would be so mindful of me, and would visit me with such encouragement?

Brother Forrests, As I said, I do not disagree with anything you have shared, you did not offend me in any way, and you certainly do not owe me any apology! You are an example I would choose to follow as you imitate our Savior.

William and Fletcher, you brothers are such a blessing and encouragement and I just don't say it enough.

Jeff! Thanks for sharing that testimony brother. I to have been given that unmistakable promise from the Lord concerning my wife. I hope it is okay to share this with the other brothers but thanks for the pictures of you and your family! I wish we could do more of that here for those who feel comfortable enough with it. Another forum I am on we have profile pictures, which mine is a picture of my wife and I. But we have a Folder called Photo Gallery where we can post pictures, I love it and it is so helpful in being able to have a picture and name to associate with our prayers.

Unfortunately having some of the discussions we have here over cyber space can really take away from ones true tone, spirit, meaning, and heart. What a difference it would make if we could all be in the same room with one another! I know the Holy Spirit would be in our midst and we wouldn't be able to help it but to love on one another.

I know we tend to get off topic at times, okay a lot, but have you ever prepared a message, or have gone to minister with an agenda and the Holy Spirit takes over and says stuff that were not in your notes?

I love it when He does that! because its all about Him, not us! Oh that we would continue to decrease that He might increase in us in Jesus name.

Thanks for the prayers too!

BD