Why do "end times" discussions dominate this forum?

Just curious, and mainly looking for comment from those who are NOT involved in these endless threads about end times.

Personally in my circle of friends and family these topics rarely if ever come up and if they do they do not take up an inordinate percentage of our conversations. And yet on this forum the opposite seems to be the case.

Could it be that those involved are just prone to endless arguing? And if one thread is shut down after all the arguing they feel compelled to get into it again in another thread to hammer home their point and on and on it goes? Or are we so bored and so lacking in real life activity or friendships that this is all we have...the SI forums? Or are we an "end times specialist" and we have come to these forums with an agenda to share our brilliant eschatological views?

But is this really how we should be spending our time on a christian discussion forum DEVOTED TO REVIVAL??? Is this the "tone" and the "culture" that should be set over this forum? I am speaking from my point of view but as a relative new comer this is what the forums feel like they are turning into. Perhaps the forum should be renamed to SERMON INDEX END TIMES FORUM? I am being serious.

Does anyone else care about this or am I alone on this? Personally I think that it is really starting to get old and becoming a turn off. But hey, I am just one guy, if you all love it then I will crawl back into my little hole and be quiet:-)

Anyway happy labor day chaps and lasses!!!

And all these eschatological preoccupations imply that we have "arrived" in the full knowledge and appreciation of the Word of God in Scripture...NOT!!!

Why are we not spending just as much fellowship on and in His ACTUAL Word. I Could really benefit from everyone's knowledge in this area.

I appreciate the comments. I am not seeking to create trouble I just think this forum would be a much better place without the many endless discussions on eschatology. What can be gained from it except to push our view on others and create a sense of accomplishment that we are winning others over to our point of view?

But when I see discussions about entering Gods rest or pursuing godliness or building the body of Christ or living an overcoming life...well then, much good comes from this. That's all I am saying.

Any of those big footsies over there in the Carolina's.

"I also find UFOs, Bigfoot and black holes interesting."

Thanks for being honest brother. So should this forum be for things we find interesting or is it to stir up one another to love and good works?

I don't know. I don't run it so brother Greg would have to answer that question.

I have always believed that this forum has great potential to be used by God to disciple and strengthen the body of Christ. And it has done so and continues to do so. But just imagine how much more it could be used of God if there was not so much focus on something or other to do with end times and more focus on living for Christ today?

"But I don't try to control everybody by insinuating they somehow lack spiritually because enjoy a topic I don't."

Tough crowd, ouch.

Awakened wrote
"What can be gained from it except to push our view on others and create a sense of accomplishment that we are winning others over to our point of view"

I make hi end custom loudspeakers and subwoofers and have been active in audio communities for years. It might surprise everyone here to know that this forum is EXACTLY like audio forums. Same debates, same bossy characters, same topics repeating over and over, same guys ending threads with their over bearing militant agendas, same human nature.

I could take a thread from one of those forums and simply change the topic words and it would fit into this forum and not a single person would be able to tell. It is exactly the same and none of those guys believe in God. No one changes opinions, everyone has an agenda, same handful of guys get into fights every few threads, everyone's trying to increase their thread rep, same guys whine to the administrators, bully's, passive agressives, know it alls, same jeffmars coming and going,

The point of all this is while many may think the issues are spiritual they are in fact 100% fleshly human nature.

FTR I saw a few guys totally destroy a great audio forum and you guys have someone here that is doing the very same thing they did.

marcmc

So Todd and Lisa have basically answered my question because I have been genuinely wondering why the end times dominates this forum.

Because people find it an interesting topic. Duh.

Again I am not suggesting that anyone is any less spiritual for whatever topic they find interesting, I am simply asking if we have strayed off course a little as a forum?

A smidgen perhaps? No?

Honest, sincere question, not trying to cause trouble or make anyone feel guilty. And I do hope asking questions is still allow around here right?

Hi Marc,
I do not participate in other forums so I am probably more naive than most.

Yes we are humans and most of the time we do operate in the flesh when we think we are being spiritual but that is to be expected.

My question seems to have been answered so there you have it. Most people that are active on the forum really find end times stuff interesting and so these discussions tend to dominate the forum. Great, problem solved...I am now enlightened:-)

And for the record I do not think for one second that a person who finds end times topics to be interesting to be any less spiritual than anyone else. What I do think is important though and what I think the Lord really cares about is HOW we speak to one another and HOW we treat one another. With dignity and respect, showing honor or speaking down on each other...being gracious or and ranting on and on in a bull headed way about these topics that we feel so strongly about.

Anyway, bless you guys, I appreciate the feedback.

Talking about the end-times can actually spur on personal revival. Don't forget Jesus' letters to the 7 churches.

I'm with you TMK, it is not only interesting but makes me research and seek out the scriptures.

I am often confused for several different people, but truth be told, I am a nobody. However, I am beginning to think that Hal Lindsey, John Hagee and Tim Lahaye are after me. ;-)

Thank tou Xavier, you make some very good points and I agree that we must be watchful and sober and always ready for the end of all things is at hand. On these notes I agree and I am with you. This is a very good reason to discuss these matters so that we are spurred on towards personal revival.

But is that what is invariably happening in this long, argumentative threads about the rapture and the antichrist and the mark of the beast and the millennium? Maybe I am the only one who just doesn't see personal revival coming about because of these threads? What I do see is a lot of ego, long winded blow-harding and strife. And then the thread gets shut down.

Almost without exception this is what happens. Am I wrong? So why keep doing it? Why keep raising these topics knowing full well where they are headed? Are we nuts? Or do we just like contention around here?

If we really wanted personal revival I think we would stop talking about subjects that we will never agree on and start confessing our sins one to another and asking for prayer in a spirit of humility.

I have seen this start to happen a few times on here and oh, it has become so sweet...you could almost "feel" the sweet presence of the Lord in those times.

Anyway brothers and sisters I do apologize if I have laid a guilt trip on any of you with this thread, that's was not my intention I promise you.

If it were up to some, we would all have to fall in line and believe the same thing and could never challenge anything we think is false or that we have a different opinion with, such as Jesus not ruling and reigning through His Church right now, and carrying out His will on earth as it is on heaven. Is this what you are striving for, Mark? No one ever challenging anyone else, again? Because, I have seen every poster here challenge something. It can be done in the right spirit. What needs to cease is the ad-hominems, slander, accusations but we as regular posters need help in this area (hint, hint). I was just called a liar in another thread because I won't admit to being someone I am not. I was told to "shut up", last night. It goes on with impunity. This gives the appearance that there is arguing going on when there is only one side that has a difference of opinion. But, the other side vehemently attacks and it appears that there is then arguing when that is not the case at all. You guys have been witnesses. You see it all. You know there are some who allow no freedom of thought or opinion when it comes against their sacred cow. They constantly try to strong arm individuals into complying by their hateful words. When someone stands up to them, they go completely off the rollers.

It does get tiresome to try to participate in give and take conversations with immature individuals in the room. Would you like me to leave for awhile? Do you think this will cure these guys, or will they jump on one of you, next? Oracio, is not here anymore. He took a lot of heat. I miss him. Proudpapa takes a lot of heat. What's wrong with PP? He does not deserve to be treated the way he has been treated. And what about Savannah? Same vitriolic behavior against him. Brenda has also been treated badly on other subjects. Tozsu, has been. Mark, I have seen you treated badly. And, you can add TMK to the list. And it goes on, and on. The people spewing vitriole on a continual basis are always the same individuals.

So, what's the answer? Ban a subject? Ban an individual? I am not asking for anyone to be banned. I would like everyone to love their enemies.

By the way, Jesus challenged the status quo every single day. What was the character of the people that were constantly trying to shut Him up (ban Him)? The religious system will always tell you to shut up. Is this what we want to support?

"Is this what you are striving for, Mark? No one ever challenging anyone else, again?"

No that is not what I was striving for dear brother Julius. I say this with absolute sincerity, I was honestly just curious as to why the end times threads are so common that was all.

I have my answer and I am satisfied. Thank you. I do not like it and but that's too bad, we can't always have everything our way:-)

But you also raised some very good points as well and I agree with you about these things. The way you have been treated is beyond the pale and I do not know why it is ignored but perhaps the Lord will use it to keep you humble:-)

When it comes to end times "stuff" I really do not care what you or anyone else believes as long as Jesus is the center of your life and all you believe. Because in the end who really knows the absolute truth about the end times? We all see through a glass darkly. No-one knows for certain that they have nailed it and have uncovered the secrets of all things pertaining to the last days. And if anyone thinks they know the truth and attempts to ram it down other peoples throats then that person in my opinion has become obsessed with something other than Jesus. And if they continue to carry on like that, they will become spiritually dry or worse still, deluded and fall away from a simple devotion to the Lord.

Years ago I sat in a room once and listened to what I would consider "mature" and wise men go after it with regard to these subjects, particularly Israel and her end time place in the scheme of things. The conversation droned on for a very long time. Maybe an hour or so. You could feel the life being sucked out of the room as one man after the other pontificated with red face and attempted to prove the other man wrong. After a long time of me sitting there silent, one of the men asked me why I had said nothing and was so quiet. I do not remember what I answered but it might have been along the lines of what I am writing about now. I think what struck me was that it felt like I was sitting in a real life forum thread-blast! There was no life, no caring for one anothers souls, no interest to love and minister to each other, just a lot of hot air and verbal arm wrestling.

Nothing good came of that evening...nothing. And in my opinion there are many threads here that end up like this. Some things just need not be discussed over and over again on the same public forum. It breeds distention and forms factions and cliques (clicks).

"So the question is whether the forum fulfills a true spiritual need in people, or some other type of need. I really don't know."

Yes, very, very good point. Perhaps it is time the forums started to meet a very real spiritual need in peoples lives. There are possibly many people who stumble on these forums while looking for real answers to the issues in their life. What do you think they will do when they read about some of the things that seem to keep so many of us preoccupied? What kind of christians will they conclude of us when they see us speak with disrespect and snipe at one another or just plain old slug it out with words?

Just what kind of testimony are we trying to portray here, do we even care? Should our time and effort be concentrated on subjects that don't really matter in the long run? So yeah Todd, good question...should the forums, should all of us here begin to see the need to meet real problems in peoples lives?

Can we even change though? Is it too late...are we too set in our ways?

Mark, you said some very wise things and I cannot disagree.

Even the moderators will start posts about the end times, so clearly influential people are constantly inviting others to participate, and not putting a ban on end times discussions.

You said, "many threads end up like this", and sadly, that is true. They don't start out like that, though. I think there are enough people here who have displayed the right kind of attitude that could foster some very good conversations on serious, current day topics. But alas, those threads will soon be crashed and that prevents people from working through a subject to some kind of amiable conclusion, even if they end up agreeing to disagree. It is a tactic that seems to work quite well.

If it is not an end times discussion that gets crashed, it will be something else, even something on revival or holiness. This had already happened many times. The real issue is not the topic!

Have a good night.

Just what kind of testimony are we trying to portray here, do we even care? Should our time and effort be concentrated on subjects that don't really matter in the long run? So yeah Todd, good question...should the forums, should all of us here begin to see the need to meet real problems in peoples lives?

This is the crux of the matter saints, that we should care more of how we are acting then if we are perfectly right in the Scripture we quote. If we are full of pride, self-seeking, no gentleness, kindness or love then it is a ruining of the testimony of Christ to continue to post and share. As all these posts are read by believers and non-believers all over the world. We continue to exhort and encourage believers here to take their time and pray when considering to respond in a thread.

How can we serve others? How can we represent the Lord better in our words and discussions? How can we see the Lord not blasphemed by the way we act and speak of His Word?

Also in the end we can be right about nuances of End-Times Scriptures but not be living right with Jesus Christ. If we are living in sin, watching pornography and doing things contrary to the Lord's ways then what would it profit to be trying to argue a position on a theology? May our thinking of the Scriptures also practically change us and let us be challenged to grow closer to the Lord practically in our life.

I think as the recommendation of a brother we can think on the 7 letters of the Book of Revelation and ask the Lord is there at least 1 phrase that can be for me, something that is lacking and needing to be changed in my life? And pray to the Lord Jesus Christ to change this wrong way.

--

Revelation 2-3New International Version (NIV)

To the Church in Ephesus
2 "To the angel[a] of the church in Ephesus write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands. 2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

To the Church in Smyrna
8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9 I know your afflictions and your poverty””yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

11 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who is victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death.

To the Church in Pergamum
12 "To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:

These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. 13 I know where you live””where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city””where Satan lives.

14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. 15 Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

17 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it.

To the Church in Thyatira
18 "To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:

These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.

20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, 25 except to hold on to what you have until I come.’

26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations”” 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’[b]””just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

To the Church in Sardis
3 "To the angel[c] of the church in Sardis write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits[d] of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

To the Church in Philadelphia
7 "To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars””I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

To the Church in Laodicea
14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm””neither hot nor cold””I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

I agree wholeheartedly brother, especially the last comment. "The real issue is not the topic".

Or rather, the real PROBLEM is not the topic.

The way we treat one another is a huge problem and we need to get desperate with God so that He can get done in us what He is trying to get done.

Anyway I actually am avoiding some spreadsheet work so I will call it a night. Many blessings to you my dear brother, may the Lord have His way in us more and more each day.

PS Fletcher, thank you for your wise comments (as always) if I have time tomorrow I will respond more.

Mark, Good night and God bless. Ugh! Spreadsheets! I have several to work on, too. And, PowerPoints!

Fletcher, I have been remiss in telling you how much I appreciated your post. (Thanks for the reminder, Mark)

Y'all be blessed and have a great day tomorrow.

Jesus is Lord!

Thank you Julius for standing up and speaking the truth. It has been going on for a long time and we have lost countless excellent people here.

It's not likely to change unfortunately.

I'll say it again. You don't have two sides fighting. You have one side who is vilifying the other side in an attempt to shut down the conversation for all. This gives the appearance that two sides are fighting which is the perception they want you to believe.

Jesus was crucified between two criminals to give the common people the perception that he too was a criminal. Guilt by association.

Go look at the Sanhedrin thread right now. Are two sides fighting? No. Only one side is vilifying the other, and they do it with impunity.

Julius,
I'm not sure if agree with that as a blanket statement friend. If you mean the "two-sides" of the issue, you have a couple of bad actors (& several imperfect people, me & yourself included in that category) on both sides. So, let's not justify bad behavior (I have called out those with viciousness in their words myself even on "my side" of the issue), but let's not cry wolf or "play the poor helpless martyr" here either. And it is fair to say when you state all your views but intentionally ignore, look over, & don't answer questions from others on the other side (& I'm not just talking about Rev, NDY), it's also not a "2-way conversation" either. It's one side presenting long diatribes of their view & then avoiding/ignoring challenging or direct questions/scriptural challenges. That's what makes it look like an agenda friend. Vilify me for saying that if you want, but God's honest truth friend, there's no malicious intent in my heart for you whatsoever. I just don't agree with you, & don't agree with you posting full books worth of echo chamber material from other men (sometimes with some very questionable teachings) but then not answering direct questions which greatly challenge the picture you draw from scripture (IN CONTEXT). That doesn't create an "us vs them" mentality (asking how your interp fits the context), but the "poor old me" and "us vs them" victim mentality does. I know I will be likely be attacked & Vilified here by some for saying that, but I think it's just as legitimate to bring up (avoiding answering real challenges concerning context, the question ability of certain teachers you post at times,accusing me of being in league with people I don't even know, etc.) as it is legitimate to say NDY & Rev should cool their rhetoric towards you & stick with the issues/views being discussed.
God Bless you,
Jeff

Some of the rude remarks made to Julius do not deserve an answer. He is right what he says. Totally right.

Brenda,
I agree that some of the rude remarks do not deserve an answer. I thought I explained myself better, but let me clarify: I'm not talking about mud-slinging. I'm talking about when 12 pages of information/teaching are laid out by Julius & I respond with the context of the verses used to create the "doctrine" or teaching & it shows something else and I ask how it's reconciled & get ignored (or accused). Or I ask a simple question that's very challenging to the belief espoused & never get an answer. Or call out an inconsistency & get ignored. That's what I'm referring to. Not the immature (& ungodly) slanderous & malicious attacks.
God Bless,
Jeff

It's not your questions, Jeff. I have tried many times to bring to your attention your rudeness with all your snide remarks and side comments.

I find it difficult to converse with someone who is always putting me down.

People need look no further than your posts in this thread. Please don't change them.

But, anyone who has been paying attention is quite familiar with all your put downs. I used to think they were accidental, I don't think that anymore. This is why I don't answer your questions.

Please stop talking to me, if you can't stop demeaning my character.

Sometimes it takes a mountain to move a molehill.